Nuestros Ranchos Site

I have not had success in finding baptism certificates in El Sagrario for
the years 1807-1812. When I do a general search in FamilySearch, I find 2
children listed for Pablo Hernandes and Cerbula Canedo, which indicates to
me that certificates exist. But when I look in this link I cannot find the
certificates.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11003-70001-34?cc=1502404&…

This is the period when certificates were in different books depending on
whether you were "espanol" or "indio". I believe that the certificates
would be found in the "castas" book, because all other certificates for
this family were indio.

The 2 specific certificates I am looking for are for Jose Susano Hernandes,
baptized 3 June 1808 and Maria Yrinea Hernandes, baptized 18 April 1810.
The link that took me to this information was:

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bsurnam…~

The certificates for this time period are very difficult to read because of
the handwriting, but I have looked and looked. Maybe I am just missing
them, but I am frustrated. Any help or suggestions will be greatly
appreciated.

Daniel

Does anyone know of any archives that contains information of Correo Maritomo?

There is some in the PARS website. But that topic is new to me as I ran across it by chance when I browsed archives in the PARS website.

I think it has to do with transporation of mail from Spain to the colonies and the mainland in Mexico. I wonder if there is some kind of registry or archive of that and the routes or how or where the mail was distributed in Zacatecas, Jalisco, Aguascalientes.

Born in Zapotlan el Grande 1747 to parents Juan Jose Dias and Gertrudis Reyes

In relation to genealogy we are trying to fill out the details of why he assumed his mother's last name, thus creating generations of Reyes descendants rather than Dias descendants.

We are also interested in learning his parents second surname....assuming Dias was his father's surname, what was his mother's line? Ditto with Reyes' mother's other surname.

In some of the records he is listed as Mexican, in others as Mestizo, and in the 1790 Census he is listed as Mulatto. Any information on his parents, grandparents heritage might be helpful in clarifying this (although we recognize he could easily be all three -- born in Mexico of Native and Nego parents would make him Mexican, Mestizo and Mulatto.

We have Reyes genealogy going forward forward and it will be posted here in response to any specific queries. But it becomes a large family very quickly and our plan is to post a link to the genealogy page being developed on the La Senora website as soon as the formats and our new website are live this summer. His grandson, Ysidro Reyes was the co-grantee, with Francisco Marquez, of the 1839 Mexican Land Grant Rancho Boca de Santa Monica (on a part of which La Senora Research Institute is located.)

This next part is not genealogical....and I'll also place it over in general/non genealogical research, but it's posted here just in case someone helping with genealogy stumbles across the 1768-1772 info on Reyes. Here's what we know:

Juan Francisco Reyes left Zapotlan el Grande in 1768-9 to work in the ship yards of San Blas where the Spanish Exploration Party was preparing to depart. Apparently he left with them (unidentified by name and seen only as one of the 'four mexicans' who accompanied the party). Researchers at UCLA believe that he may not have been Catholic (hence not named as a soldier when he left Mexico) but since was improbable to be with Serra and not become Catholic, and he's found represented in later incarnations as a Soldado del Cuera, and his location (Carmel) is demonstrated when he turns up working at the Mission with Padre Serra (who signed Reyes Marriage Investigation,) they feel it's obvious he must have gone with the exploration parties. There was no other means transportation to Alta California at that time.

Born in Zapotlan el Grande 1747 to parents Juan Jose Dias and Gertrudis Marquez.

In relation to genealogy we are trying to fill out the details of why he assumed his mother's last name, thus creating generations of Reyes descendants rather than Dias descendants.

We are also interested in learning his parents second surname....assuming Dias was his father's surname, what was his mother's line? Ditto with Reyes' mother's other surname.

In some of the records he is listed as Mexican, in others as Mestizo, and in the 1790 Census he is listed as Mulatto. Any information on his parents, grandparents heritage might be helpful in clarifying this (although we recognize he could easily be all three -- born in Mexico of Native and Nego parents would make him Mexican, Mestizo and Mulatto.

We have Reyes genealogy going forward forward and it will be posted here in response to any specific queries. But it becomes a large family very quickly and our plan is to post a link to the genealogy page being developed on the La Senora website as soon as the formats and our new website are live this summer. His grandson, Ysidro Reyes was the co-grantee, with Francisco Marquez, of the 1839 Mexican Land Grant Rancho Boca de Santa Monica (on a part of which La Senora Research Institute is located.)

This next part is not genealogical....and I'll also place it over in general/non genealogical research, but it's posted here just in case someone helping with genealogy stumbles across the 1768-1772 info on Reyes. Here's what we know:

Juan Francisco Reyes left Zapotlan el Grande in 1768-9 to work in the ship yards of San Blas where the Spanish Exploration Party was preparing to depart. Apparently he left with them (unidentified by name and seen only as one of the 'four mexicans' who accompanied the party). Researchers at UCLA believe that he may not have been Catholic (hence not named as a soldier when he left Mexico) but since was improbable to be with Serra and not become Catholic, and he's found represented in later incarnations as a Soldado del Cuera, and his location (Carmel) is demonstrated when he turns up working at the Mission with Padre Serra (who signed Reyes Marriage Investigation,) they feel it's obvious he must have gone with the exploration parties. There was no other means transportation to Alta California at that time.

Looking to see if there is a George E. Mayorga in the Nuestros Ranchos group
(Already checked so I think not).

Or does anyone know either of a living George E. Mayorga that is into
genealogy for our area of research

Or does anyone know of a recently deceased (last 50-100 years) George E.
Mayorga from our area of research AND the people that have this person in
their genealogy

Reason: Family Tree showed a GeorgeEMayorga that made some additions to my
Rivas family and left no way for me to contact this person. So I'm trying to
find him/her/them.

Thanks for any help on this,

Joseph

Joseph Puentes

Clean@h2opodcast.com

http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html

I found the baptismal record for Jose Susano in Bautiismos de Castas
1807-1812, Image #139, entry 63. This is in the Aguascalientes film
record of course. Other info: parents are Pablo de la Cruz Hernandez,
Cerbula Canedo; paternal grandparents are Simon Hernandez, Maria Ynes
Flores; maternal grandparents are Francisco Canedo, Paual Ceferina;
godmother is Felipa Hernandez. [My computer misspelled the name
Canedo.] The baptism took place in the town of Jesus Maria in the
parish of Aguas.

Maria Yrinea's record is on Image 380 in the same film as above. The
other info is the same. In this film the baptisms for Jesus Maria are
written after the ones for Aguas. Good luck with your searches.

David in Albany, CA

--
David P Delgado

Just a reminder that the SoCal chapter of the Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society will be holding a meeting this Saturday, April 25th in Orange, California from 11 am until 2 pm. If you'd like an informational flyer (with the location and directions), please email us at nggssocal@nuevagalicia.org, and we'll send it to you.

Hope to see you there!

Rosalinda and Erika

I am looking at this video about the legend of giants in Tala, Jalisco, Mexico:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHHoib4KuVU

Says they were called "chinametin" and were 35 feet tall.

In the Tala Jalisco Government website it does talk about the legend of giants:

http://www.talajalisco.gob.mx/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=150:…

Teuchitlán was the ancient city of Tala dating back to 300 BC to 200 AD:

http://www.talajalisco.gob.mx/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=150:…

"Esta es una zona de civilización exclusiva de la zona Occidente de México, principalmente de Jalisco y se ubica en las faldas del volcán de Tequila. El desarrollo de la tradición Teuchitlán se dio en la época formativa tardía (300 a.C. hasta 200 d. C.). En Teuchitlán se encontraba la ciudad más importante, que contaba con ocho barrios distintos, de los cuales tres se ubicaban en la zona que hoy conocemos como Tala."

Teuchitlan is this ancient place that has circular shaped pyramids:

http://oi59.tinypic.com/2iafzgz.jpg

LEYENDA GIGANTES DE TALA
La leyenda de los gigantes que destruyeron por primera vez Tala, se recoge en la crónica del famoso Fray Antonio Tello, quien nos narra el paso de Nuño de Guzmán por el valle de Tala, hecho ocurrido después 1530.
El conquistador descubrió el valle de tlalla y no hallo ¨anima nacida¨ sino grandes ruinas de edificios caídos que según parece habían sido habitadas por poblaciones grandes.
Se manifestó que… dos veces se había despoblado, la primera por unos gigantes que por el sur y poniente habían venido, en número de 30, 27 varones y 3 hembras y que después se volvió a poblar de mucha gente de muchas naciones, pero 30 años atrás la ganaron, destruyeron y asolaron.
Eran comunes en la época, tanto en el Viejo Mundo con en la recién descubierta América, las leyendas y las historias de gigantes; la ignorancia, la superstición y la credulidad hacían que todo tipo de fantasías se consideraran verdaderas. Cuenta la leyenda:
Eran los tales gigantes tan glotones y haraganes, que tenían los de tala que amasar una fanega de maíz para cada uno de ellos; comían la carne de 4 niños diarios asados, ratas, venados y jabalíes, y en vez de verduras, cogoyos de enea. 6000 indios y indias les servían diariamente, que si no con sus armas que eran grandes bastones, hacían mortandad espantosa. Eran de color mulatado, poco cabello crespo y barba, con unas orejas de apalmo, eran muy torpes de andadura y muy dados al pecado nefando. Los pobladores fueron desapareciendo poco a poco, unos muertos por aquellos monstros, y otros porque vivían lejos con su familia, hasta que quedaron solos. Como eran araganes desfallecieron y empezaron a morir hasta no quedar sino cuatro, los cadáveres eran enterrados por los supervivientes y cubiertos con cal.
Como ya eran pocos, los de tala hicieron de tripas corazón y los hecharon encaminándolos rumbo a Ixtlan, y de allí tuvieron que irse a Atzemaxaque, donde los vecinos reunieron aliados hasta el numero de 20,000 y dieron muerte a tan terribles huéspedes.
Existen 2 teorías; La primera es que algunos historiadores creen ver en tal leyenda la invasión de los tarascos (decían que el enemigo era muy grande y por eso habían ganado la batalla). Chinametin, les decían los indios a los gigantes, así como ahora se dice para asustar a los niños “ahí viene el coco, esta misma continuo, con visos de certeza, en virtud de constantes hallazgos de restos fósiles en la región. La segunda teoría es que las personas confundieron los restos de mamut con restos humanos.
Continúo a través de los siglos y por ello se le cita históricamente como ¨Tala, tierra de gigantes¨
La segunda destrucción fue la de los tarascos en la denominada Guerra del Salitre, del año de 1500-1510, que destruyo Tala y Ahualulco.

Here is another link about a book:

https://books.google.com/books?id=OzUCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=chin…

http://oi57.tinypic.com/2u79i7r.jpg

I have not had success in finding baptism certificates in El Sagrario for the years 1807-1812. When I do a general search in FamilySearch, I find 2 children listed for Pablo Hernandes and Cerbula Canedo, which indicates to me that certificates exist. But when I look in this link I cannot find the certificates.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11003-70001-34?cc=1502404&…

This is the period when certificates were in different books depending on whether you were "espanol" or "indio". I believe that the certificates would be found in the "castas" book, because all other certificates for this family were indio.

The 2 specific certificates I am looking for are for Jose Susano Hernandes, baptized 3 June 1808 and Maria Yrinea Hernandes, baptized 18 April 1810. The link that took me to this information was:

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bsurnam…~

The certificates for this time period are very difficult to read because of the handwriting, but I have looked and looked. Maybe I am just missing them, but I am frustrated. Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Piggy-backing on the conversation about who's Latino, I was wondering what people mark for race on census and other forms. Until a few years ago, I marked "white," like the vast majority of non-black Latinos. But some friends got me to think about it, and I reached the conclusion (before DNA testing) that I, like most of us of Mexican ancestry, am more NA in culture than white (Spanish). My DNA testing only reinformed my belief, since I'm a B2.

I know very few Mexicans who mark NA, and I even checked the info on my students. Hasta los más morenos are identified as white.

Of course, one problem is that being called an "indio" is a big putdown, so I'm guessing most Mexicans won't be checking NA anytime soon.

Thoughts?

Laura Gonzalez

I came across this posting on the National Catholic Reporter web site and thought I would seek out the opinions of the Nuestros Ranchos members. The article was regarding the canonization of Junipero Serra.

Here is the comment:
kag1982 • 4 hours ago
First, in what sense of the word is Junipero Serra Latino. It seems to me a stretch to say that he is either a Latino or an American for that matter. Is the Vatican going to classify Cortes and PIzarro as a Latino American as well? Second, there are serious questions about Serra's record with the Native Americans that need to be addressed. Yes, he was probably nicer to the Native Americans than most other Spanish at the time. But the fact remains that he did treat them as little children and correct them as such and the Native Americans were forced onto the missions and used as slave labor. Those sorts of charges have to be answered.

So what do you all think was Junipero Serra, Latino or not.

Please delete this posting if it is considered to be in appropriate.

Hi,

I'm trying to figure if only padrinos are listed, or grandparents as well. Bottom left side, Marquez twins. Thanks!

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18451-57288-38?cc=1874591&wc…

Laura

I am seeking information about my maternal 7 great grandparents, Onfre de Soto married to Cayetana de Estrada. Onfre was baptised 21 Feb 1683 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, MX. I have discovered 1 child, Lucas Luciano de Soto, born about 1705.

Thank you.

Paul Gomez
Rancho Cucamonga, CA

I located a marriage document (1891) with the groom's signature, which makes me curious about any formal and informal educational opportunities during that time period, and how they may have varied by region and class. Is anyone familiar with any resources that might address this? I would be most curious about the Purisima del Rincon, San Juan de los Lagos, and Atotonilco el Alto areas.

Thanks

I found this website with pictures of a panteon of Monte Escobedo. Looks old and made out of cantera:

http://labestad.reduaz.mx/web/turismo/patrimonew/galeria.php?donde=031…

Using Googles Map to enter coordinates:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Monte+Escobedo,+Zac.,+Mexico/@22.3015…

Enter these coordinates: 22.304558, -103.556573
Which is the panteon at Monte Escobedo, Zacatecas, Mexico

And these coordinates: 22.445740, -103.490197
Is the coordinates of the panteon antiguo of Monte Escobedo that is located on a highway just outside of Laguna Grande.

So I can't tell if that website with pictures is which panteon?

My 7th Generation (Antonio Madera - 1660-1709, Maria De La Candelaria Angon -1655-1735) and 6th Generation Great Grandparents (Joseph Madera 1684-1734, Josepha Vasquez) are probably in the old panteon in Mezquitic or Monte Escobedo. My 5th Generation Great Grandparents Blas Madera/Maria Theresa Avkila I believe are buried in Huejuquilla after they moved over from Mezquitic to Huejuquilla since their two sons Francisco Madera and Lazaron Madera appears in Huejuquilla during the mid 1700's

Hi,

Right side, one of the two really really faded entries is for a Joseph Marquez, 21 Feb 1729. Can anyone see anything? :(

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18432-63991-30?cc=1874591&wc…

Thanks!
Laura

When I sent my introduction yesterday, I forgot to include the link to my
folder. So here is the introduction again - WITH the link.

Greetings Fellow Genealogists -

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/dgmiv

My name is Daniel Meckley and I have recently joined the Nuestros Ranchos
group. For the past several years, I have been researching the ancestry of
my husband, Luis Alberto Su?rez Paillas. Both families are from Jes?s
Maria, Aguascalientes. I had been able to find a lot of information using
FamilySearch, but I had a lot of holes and was missing one entire branch
from the Pasillas side of the family. Last week I stumbled upon the
Nuestros Ranchos web site and a different link to FamilySearch that lets me
actually view birth certificates! This has made all the difference! I was
able to find a birth certificate that gave me the information I needed to
go backwards in the missing branch.

I have about 950 names in the Su?rez Pasillas tree ? all from Jes?s Maria
(or Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes if they lived before Jes?s Maria
existed.) I would love to share the information I have found with anyone
who is researching in the same area. I am really excited to be part of the
Nuestros Ranchos group.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18417-10955-24?cc=1874591&wc…

i read this document and i'm not clear as to how these two are related

My granpa told me that there are marquez from zacatecas in el Carrizal jalisco-

I have two death ends in my tree

Matrimony in El Carrizal Jalisco.
Eulalio Marquez
Carlota Leaños, el carrizal

Matrimony in El Carrizal Jalisco.
Dominga Marquez
Calixto Galvez,El Carrizal

Any Marquez from Zacatecas please let me know if you have this names they were born early 1800 or late 1700.

itzcoatzin@gmail.com

From: Angel R. Cervantes [mailto:angelrcervantes@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2015 2:07 AM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: Who was the Roman Emperor Trajan?

Hello,

I would like to invite you to attend a lecture on the first Spanish Emperor of the Roman Empire in a presentation called (Who was Roman Emperor Trajan?). If you would like to learn more about Roman Emperor Trajan then this presentation is for you. There will be a talk on the subject on May 1 at 3:30 PM, through the University of New Mexico Osher program. The class number is 19451.

To register for this Osher class go to the following link:

https://newmexico.augusoft.net/index.cfm?method=ClassInfo.ClassInformat… &int_class_id=68134&utm_source=CE-Osher

or

* Call: 505-277-0077, press option 1
* In person: M-F, 8:00am - 5:00pm,
1634 University Blvd. NE
Albuquerque, NM 87102

Best Regards,

Ángel de Cervantes
Project Administrator
New Mexico DNA Project
Iberian Peninsula DNA Institute

P.S. For more information contact Angel

Just came across this blog, Colotlan en Llamas, which mentions these families. En español.

Laura

Question
I just received the Family tree Y DNA results from my Uncle's DNA test. Of the 58 values on his Y-DNA - Standard Y-STR he matches 51 exactly with another person the other 7 are:
DYS19 other person 15 uncle's 14
DYS448 other person 18 uncle's 19
DYS464 other person 14-15-17-17 uncle's 15-15-17-17
YCAII other person 19-23 uncle's 19-21
DYS576 other person 20 uncle's 19
DYS444 other person 13 uncle's 12
DYS446 other person 12 uncle's 13

In the family trees of both families it shows they are descended 9 generations back from Francisco Reynoso. Do these results confirm that connection given that baptism and marriage dispensation records back it up?

Thank you in advance for educating me on DNA interpretation.

Delia, I’m Mary Anne Pentis and I have had both FAMILY TREE mtDNA done with them and also with ANCESTRY DNA. I recommend starting with FAMILY TREE as it should give results you want. You may then “add” more detail with matching to possible cousins for an additional fee with FAMILY FINDER. With ANCESTRY I have had a number of cousin matches to 2nd, 3rd, and 4th cousins as the primary results. FAMILY TREE also has Surname Projects you can join and I belong to NEW MEXICO DNA PROJECT, and within that ESPINOSA PROJECT. Your mtDNAwill give you your lineage back thru your mother, grandmother, her mother, her mother’s mother, etc. Mine went back to ancient Pueblo and is likely ANASAZI based on testing done on some available bones from archaeological digs years ago. My Espinosa line thru my male cousin traces back to Nicolas de Espinosa from Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico. My mother Spanish heritage from the conquistadors of New Mexico has a lot of Native American blood mixed in. I do have a great grandmother generations back onmy father’s side which goes back many hundreds of years to Russia. This showed on the maps provided by FTDNA in my results as well as being able to paper trace back. My ethnicity was broken down and shown on the maps. Hope this helps and you find what you’re looking for. Both sites have excellent explanatory DNA information.

Sent from Windows Mail

From: general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
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Today's Topics:

1. DNA tests recommendations (rsduran@aol.com)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 21:37:40 -0400
From: rsduran@aol.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA tests recommendations
Message-ID: <14c9bd353d3-71a5-a4a3@webprd-a105.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

My name is Delia Dominguez Duran. I am a member of Nuestros Ranchos as l have attempted to discover my ancestral roots. My question to you is whether you can recommend an organization and or testing site or type of test I can employ to determine the racial group or groups
that might give me insight to my genetic roots.
I am also a member of Ancestry.com , and they do offer a site but am not familiar with DNA testing and if one site or type of test might be better than another.
My maternal grandparents were born in the Mexican states of Jalisco(Mora / Rodriguez surname) and Aguascalientes (Rodriguez/ Reyes surname) Paternal grandparents Arizona (Dominguez / Hernandez surname) paternal great gandmother possibly Chihuahua via Zacatecas (Hernandez / Carbajal surname) .
Can you recommend a type of test or organization that will help establish my genetic roots .
Respectfully,
Delia Dominguez Duran
rsduran@aol.com

------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

What exactly is a Puesta? Is it just a non-specific place or is it more specific than that? Is it like a small village? Is it considered temporary or permanent? Which of the following might be found in/at a Puesta: houses, stores, streets, fortifications, stockade, inn, tavern, chappel, armory, mansions, plantations, guards, soldiers, garrison, a flag, command center, supply depots ... What kind of government would be there? I'm just trying to get my mind around what exactly a puesta is or isn't (Aguascalientes 1600s-1800s).

My name is Delia Dominguez Duran. I am a member of Nuestros Ranchos as l have attempted to discover my ancestral roots. My question to you is whether you can recommend an organization and or testing site or type of test I can employ to determine the racial group or groups
that might give me insight to my genetic roots.
I am also a member of Ancestry.com , and they do offer a site but am not familiar with DNA testing and if one site or type of test might be better than another.
My maternal grandparents were born in the Mexican states of Jalisco(Mora / Rodriguez surname) and Aguascalientes (Rodriguez/ Reyes surname) Paternal grandparents Arizona (Dominguez / Hernandez surname) paternal great gandmother possibly Chihuahua via Zacatecas (Hernandez / Carbajal surname) .
Can you recommend a type of test or organization that will help establish my genetic roots .
Respectfully,
Delia Dominguez Duran
rsduran@aol.com