We definetly shouldn't rule out the presence of blacks
in México (and we might have some blood too!), but we
have to be aware that blacks were brought to México at
first when Spaniards arrive to Veracruz. This is why
we find most black mexicans in the eastern coast of
México (Gulf of Mexico). As soon as they started
conquering the indians, the need for black labor
became unnecessary. I would not question the veracity
of Vaughn's assertion about black outnumbering
spaniards (maybe at the beginning of the colony), but
I doubt it is true in present day México. If I'm not
mistaken (correct me if I am wrong), México and
Argentina and the two latin american countries with
the smallest black population.

Guillermo Valdez.


--- alice wissing  wrote:

> Hello,
>  
> I've always wondered if any families had haciendas
> in the Los Altos area and what differentiates a
> ranch from a hacienda.  Does anyone out there know
> how I would go about finding that information?  
>  
> I

cool! glad you had a great time and thanks much for the website. here is
the bibliography from that website:

Aguirre Beltrán, Gonzalo, La población negra de México, 1519-1810:
estudio etnohistórico (México: Ediciones Fuente Cultural, 1946).

Aguirre Beltrán, Gonzalo, Cuijla: esbozo etnográfico de un pueblo negro,
(México: Fondo de Cultura Económica, 1958).

Althoff, Daniel , "Afro-Mestizo Speech from Costa Chica, Guerrero: From
Cuaji to Cuijla," (Language Problems and Language Planning, 18(3),
1994), p.242-256.

Carroll, Patrick J., Blacks in Colonial Veracruz: Race, Ethnicity, and
Regional Development, (Austin: University of Texas Press, 1991).

Cruz Carretero, Sagrario , Identidad en una comunidad afromestiza del
centro de Veracruz: La población de Mata Clara, (Tésis de Licenciatura,
Fundación Universidad de las Américas).

Davidson, David M., "Negro Slave Control and Resistance in colonial
Mexico, 1519-1650," In Maroon Societies: Rebel Slave Communities in the
Ameri

I hope everyone is doing ok. I just came back from a trip to Jalisco
and wanted to let you know that I had a lot of fun. Of course, I used
some of my time there interviewing my relatives and visiting the
Zacoalco's notaria for records from the 1700's. Soon, I'll post an
updated family tree on the files section.

By the way, the conversation about spanish ancestors and indios
ancestors is past already, but I just wanted to remind you that we
must not forget our african roots. According to researcher Bobby
Vaughn, black population outnumbered spaniards during most of the
c

I hope everyone is doing ok. I just came back from a trip to Jalisco 
and wanted to let you know that I had a lot of fun. Of course, I used 
some of my time there interviewing my relatives and visiting the 
Zacoalco's notaria for records from the 1700's. Soon, I'll post an 
updated family tree on the files section.

By the way, the conversation about spanish ancestors and indios 
ancestors is past already, but I just wanted to remind you that we 
must not forget our african roots. According to researcher Bobby 
Vaughn, black population outnumbered spaniards during most of the 
colonial times. Have a look at this page: www.afromexico.com I, and 
probably many of you, have found mulatos, coyotes, and similar terms 
on some of our lines, which means that we also have african roots.

Is anyone aware of a book called "Haciendas y Estancias de Jalisco"? 
Well, on a trip to Guadalajara, I got a copy of this book, and even 
though I haven't read it all, It has some interesting information on

Can't promise anything, Joseph.  But with a little luck and a LOT of 
patience we might be able to get you one.  In the mean time, get 
yourself a nice drink and put that to rest.  :)



--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes  wrote:
> For the following Ranchos in Jalisco:
> 
> Rancho de Animas
> Sauz de los Marquez
> El Salto or just Salto (formerly Salto de los Romeros I'm hoping)
> 
> I was hoping that the phone book that covers from Colotlan, Jalisco 
> including everything North to Tepetongo, Zacatecas would have those 
> phone numbers including others I'm sure I'd be interested in. I 
wish I 
> could get my hands on that phone book.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> joseph

Joseph,

What "casetas" are you most interested in?  

There is a chance that the information might be available or 
requested through Telmex.

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes  wrote:
> thanks much for this information. I'm hoping to find out things 
like the 
> phone numbers to the "cassetas" in the ranchos out in the country. 
I 
> would very much like to find a source of phone books. I thought a 
Social 
> organization of some sort might be able to help me either by 
mailing me 
> a phone book or photocopying pages of their phone book for the 
surnames 
> I need. I'd prefer to purchase the whole phone book but have 
understood 
> they are not available even for purchase unless you live in the 
> community. I also thought that if there are books like the ones you 
> mention these organizations/historical-genealogical societies would 
be 
> the best ones to know about them. 

thanks much for this information. I'm hoping to find out things like the
phone numbers to the "cassetas" in the ranchos out in the country. I
would very much like to find a source of phone books. I thought a Social
organization of some sort might be able to help me either by mailing me
a phone book or photocopying pages of their phone book for the surnames
I need. I'd prefer to purchase the whole phone book but have understood
they are not available even for purchase unless you live in the
community. I also thought that if there are books like the ones you
mention these organizations/historical-genealogical societies would be
the best ones to know about them. I guess if we each wrote a letter to
the town chronicler of our specific area in Jalisco, Zacatecas, and
Aguascalientes and then shared that information with the group we could
make the groups resources rich with information. . .both for us and for
those that are yet to join.

Thank You Victor for your participation

Hey Victor,

The books you mention are actually the ones I have.  Sorry, I didn't 
know the names but I recognize them.

The three books I currently have are:
- Los Valdes de Totatiche
     {I descend from the Valdes family, Joseph Leandro Valdez Lopez 
and Maria Josepha Grano Covarrubias}
- Estirpe Sacerdotal Campos-Jara
     {I descend from the Campos family, Pedro Leon Gaeta Sierra and 
Maria de la Luz Campos Huerta.}
- El Sacerdocio Ministerial - Singular Don a la Parroquia de Totatiche
     {I descend from the Grano family, through the same line from 
above Joseph Leandro Valdez Lopez and Maria Josepha Grano Covarrubias}

The areas I am researching are:
Totatiche and Colotlan in Jalisco
Momax, Tlaltenango, Atolinga, Tepechitlan in Zacatecas

Some of the surnames I am researching are:
Cardenas, Carreon (Carrion), Gaeta, Godina, Huerta, Huizar, Luna, 
Miramontes, Perez, Raigosa (Raygoza), Avila, Campos, Castaneda, Correa
(s), Covarrubias, Grano, Lopez, Marques (Marques De Los