Dr.mt

Mathias Morones and Phelipa de La Cruz

Published by preciasr –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Nuestros Ranchos,
 
Regarding Joseph Gregorio Morones b.

Comentarios

Comentario

Susan Preciado,

I have the following information. J. Gregorio's siblings:

?? MORONES Masias, bp: 9 jan 1718, Zapotlanejo, Jal.; image 278, Bautismos 1684-1708
is described as child of Mathias Morones and Phelipa Masias. [unable to read child's given name]

Marcelo MORONES, married 3 jul 1752 in San Agustin, Ayo el Chico, Jalisco is described as child of Mathias Morones and Phelipa Masias, both are deceased; image 94, Matrimonios 1741-1811 in Ayotlan.

There are many Macias families in the several locations: Lagos de Moreno, Cienega de Mata, and Aguascalientes. You might find the answer there. Mathias Morones is my 7th great- grandfather.

David Delgado, in Albany, CA

David P. Delgado

Food?

Published by jlblonde –
Foros
Genealogy Research

What are the traditional foods of Jalisco and for that matter Los Altos?

Comentarios

Comentario

Strangely enough, the little Mexican restaurant up here on our island in the Northwest serves exactly what you describe that you have at home. The owner is from Jalisco, and he calls his food "estilo mexicano". They also have a very few "Cal-Mex" or "Tex Mex" foods (that strange stuff) that bear no relation to real Mexican food that you find in fast food places in California and Texas to serve those Americans who prefer that and don't care to try the real stuff.

It is the same with "Italian" food here. I grew up in an Italian neighborhood in California, and pizza was something served in sheet pans with only a tomato-garlic-olive oil sauce that was cut up into little squares as hors d'oerves (sp?) at weddings only. Then it became the God-awful stuff served with meats and cheese that you find now at fast food places, even in Italy.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: jlblonde@sbcglobal.net
> Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 03:21:58 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Food?
>
> What are the traditional foods of Jalisco and for that matter Los Altos?
>
> I remember going to the restaurant El Torito during lunch in high school here in Southern California in the 1980's and having my anglo friends ask me what certain items on the menu were. Tortilla soup? Stacked enchiladas? Fajitas? Rolled tacos? Chimichangas? Wet burritos? I remember saying, "What the hell is this? Must be the chef's menu from a previous position he held as a cook at Chino prison."
>
> Our food at home was and still is:
>
> Albondigas (meatball soup)
> Fideo (pasta soup)
> Picadillo (shredded beef with potatoes)
> Steak Picado (bisteak meat with tomatoes, onions, and peppers)
> Carne Asada (grilled meat and large green onions with no marinade)
> Conchas (large pasta shells with onion, tomatoes, and peppers)
> Caldo de rez (beef stew. I've heard it called cocido by other peeps)
> And the main staple in the upper cupboard, cheese. That weird smelling stuff shaped like a round yellow cake. I used to stand behind my dad wearing a gas mask as he would make quesadillas.
>
> So my question again is, "what are the traditional foods?" Is what I've mentioned above part of that or is it our assimilation here in the states? And what about the strange Mexican restaurant food I still come across now and then?
>
>
>
>

What colonial clothing style would you wear if there were a colonial costume party?

Published by MADERA_32 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

The Colonial era of Mexico facinates me. I am curious about those carriages that were used for transportation. I saw one in a museum in Zacatecas.

Comentarios

Comentario

Most of the replies here have been from the republican era and that style of clothing which probably began in the 1830's after the revolution. Prior to that most styles of clothing reflected the prevailing european styles that made it's way from Mexico City to Guadalajara. Then again, it depends on the status of your family. Pictures of my family from a 120 years ago show a Victorian style of dress for the women and a typical charro and tight pants (mariachi dress) for the men.

In colonial times, I'm sure it was similar to the French and Spanish styles with small local variations. Say a few dresses arriving in Guadalajara might be copied using local fabrics and patterns giving it a distinctive regional look. Of course this is my opinion and is not based on real evidence it is merely my observation on what people have done in the past throughout history.

Joe Rubio

Comentario

I think you are correct, Joe. My husband's ancestors from Jalisco were merchants and tradesmen, not farmers or cattlemen and they would never have worn "ranchero" clothing, nor would their houses have included serapes and clay pots, stuff some Americans think of as "Mexican". Their women wore lace, etc. as I have seen in some photos. Maybe the men wore aprons and other clothing appropriate to their occupation. My husband's most recent ancestors were merchants (meat markets, bakeries, groceries, taxi companies, auto shops) in El Paso.
In the big cities in Mexico, of course, they would emulate what they saw on their trips to Madrid and Paris. They had pianos and paintings in their homes in Mexico City. Their apartments looked like those anywhere in the US or Europe

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

-------------------------------------------------------

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: jlblonde@sbcglobal.net
> Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 02:40:30 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] What colonial clothing style
>
> Most of the replies here have been from the republican era and that style of clothing which probably began in the 1830's after the revolution. Prior to that most styles of clothing reflected the prevailing european styles that made it's way from Mexico City to Guadalajara. Then again, it depends on the status of your family. Pictures of my family from a 120 years ago show a Victorian style of dress for the women and a typical charro and tight pants (mariachi dress) for the men.
>
> In colonial times, I'm sure it was similar to the French and Spanish styles with small local variations. Say a few dresses arriving in Guadalajara might be copied using local fabrics and patterns giving it a distinctive regional look. Of course this is my opinion and is not based on real evidence it is merely my observation on what people have done in the past throughout history.
>
> Joe Rubio

Published by October Fly (no verificado) – Vie, 2012-05-25 12:07 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

I have seen very few pictures of my ancestors from the time period being discussed, but it always amazes me how well dressed they appear, in their pictures.

Comentario

Yes, like many folks back then, my ancestors were hardworking ranchers and farmers who wore jeans and chaps or bib coveralls, long johns, and straw hats, but they had pride and took care of their nice things, and they "cleaned p" well and looked great in the finery they saved to wear for special occasions.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
---------------------------------------------------------------------

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: eltobias2003@hotmail.com
> Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 12:07:45 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Colonial Costumes
>
> I have seen very few pictures of my ancestors from the time period being discussed, but it always amazes me how well dressed they appear, in their pictures.

Comentario

I'm also interested to learn more about the carriages because my aunt told me that my grandfather's family used to go to church in a carriage.  They would also wear their finest charro outfits to church.  I found that fascinating, maybe a little bizarre.  I suppose it would have been as late as the 1890's/early 1900's that they were doing that in San Juan de los Lagos.  My grandfather was a Campos Munoz, and I believe that a lot of Irma's relatives who are into the charro culture are Munoz, as well.  And to think I'm scared to death of horses!

Comentario

Alice - It was not bizarre for your well-off ancestors to ride in carriages and wear fancy charro (cowboy) outfits everywhere. In that link I sent about the China Poblana outfit, the article that the photo came from is from the website of the Autry Western Museum from a few years ago when they had a "charreada" in Los Angeles.

That article explains about the various charro outfits, from the ones for the working cowboy to the black tie charro outfit worn by wealthy "rancheros"--catllemen of the time. Just like the Anglo Texans wear their best Western style suits with expensive 10-gallon hats (think of the show "Dallas") and drive Cadillacs, the wealthy cattlemen in Mexico wore their best finery and had the best transportation -carriages for leisure and business, and fine riding horses. My father told me about them, and I saw some in Zacatecas, the charro outfits and horses, no carriages of course since now they have expensive pick-up trucks, SUVs, etc. The poor people were and might still be lucky to have a burro to carry things, nothing to ride or ride in.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 16:18:00 -0700
> From: alice_wissing@yahoo.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] What colonial clothing style would you wear if there were a colonial costume party?
>
> I'm also interested to learn more about the carriages because my aunt told me that my grandfather's family used to go to church in a carriage. They would also wear their finest charro outfits to church. I found that fascinating, maybe a little bizarre. I suppose it would have been as late as the 1890's/early 1900's that they were doing that in San Juan de los Lagos. My grandfather was a Campos Munoz, and I believe that a lot of Irma's relatives who are into the charro culture are Munoz, as well. And to think I'm scared to death of horses!

Comentario

Zacatecano,

I think I would dress like a China Poblana, very colorful skirt, braids in my hair interlaced with multicolored ribbons, a hand embroidered blouse with birds and flowers and a big red flower behind my ear with dangling silver earrings and a charro to escort me to the dance.

Alicia

________________________________
From: "zacatecano020@hotmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 2:03 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] What colonial clothing style would you wear if there were a colonial costume party?

The Colonial era of Mexico facinates me.  I am curious about those carriages that were used for transportation.  I saw one in a museum in Zacatecas.

Also I am curios about the styles of clothing.  For instance, the triangular colonial hats that they wore and also another style where some of the men wore scarf or cloth covering the scalps of their head.  Kind of like what pirates wear.

On the mexican 50 peso bill, the picture Jose Maria Morelos wears one.

Can someone tell me what do you call that style of cloth that people from the colonial days wore covering the scalp of their heads? It is like what the pirates wore.

If there were a Nuestros Ranchos Colonial Costume party,  what style would you wear?

Comentario

When we went to Zacatecas with my father back in the 1960s, he bought me a doll like the one pictured in this link: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://theautry.org/explore/exhibit…

Her costume is very elaborate and she is wearing a sombrero. Each region I think had their own way for the women to wear the rebozo, so if you Google "China Poblana costume" you will see many ways that the rebozo was worn. The blouse and skirt could be very different in coloration from one region to another.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

----------------------------------------------------------

> Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 21:01:27 -0700
> From: alliecar@pacbell.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] What colonial clothing style would you wear if there were a colonial costume party?
>
> Zacatecano,
>
> I think I would dress like a China Poblana, very colorful skirt, braids in my hair interlaced with multicolored ribbons, a hand embroidered blouse with birds and flowers and a big red flower behind my ear with dangling silver earrings and a charro to escort me to the dance.
>
> Alicia
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "zacatecano020@hotmail.com"
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 2:03 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] What colonial clothing style would you wear if there were a colonial costume party?
>
> The Colonial era of Mexico facinates me. I am curious about those carriages that were used for transportation. I saw one in a museum in Zacatecas.
>
> Also I am curios about the styles of clothing. For instance, the triangular colonial hats that they wore and also another style where some of the men wore scarf or cloth covering the scalps of their head. Kind of like what pirates wear.
>
> On the mexican 50 peso bill, the picture Jose Maria Morelos wears one.
>
> Can someone tell me what do you call that style of cloth that people from the colonial days wore covering the scalp of their heads? It is like what the pirates wore.
>
>
> If there were a Nuestros Ranchos Colonial Costume party, what style would you wear?
>
>

Comentario

Thanks Emilie,

Love it, forgot the rebozo, I bought several 4 years ago on my trip to Zac, Zac.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: Emilie Garcia
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] What colonial clothing style would you wear if there were a colonial costume party?

When we went to Zacatecas with my father back in the 1960s, he bought me a doll like the one pictured in this link:  http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://theautry.org/explore/exhibit…

Her costume is very elaborate and she is wearing a sombrero.  Each region I think had their own way for the women to wear the rebozo, so if you Google "China Poblana costume" you will see many ways that the rebozo was worn. The blouse and skirt could be very different in coloration from one region to another. 

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

----------------------------------------------------------

> Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 21:01:27 -0700
> From: alliecar@pacbell.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] What colonial clothing style would you wear if there were a colonial costume party?
>
> Zacatecano,
>
> I think I would dress like a China Poblana, very colorful skirt, braids in my hair interlaced with multicolored ribbons, a hand embroidered blouse with birds and flowers and a big red flower behind my ear with dangling silver earrings and a charro to escort me to the dance.
>
> Alicia
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "zacatecano020@hotmail.com"
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 2:03 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] What colonial clothing style would you wear if there were a colonial costume party?
>
> The Colonial era of Mexico facinates me.  I am curious about those carriages that were used for transportation.  I saw one in a museum in Zacatecas.
>
> Also I am curios about the styles of clothing.  For instance, the triangular colonial hats that they wore and also another style where some of the men wore scarf or cloth covering the scalps of their head.  Kind of like what pirates wear.
>
> On the mexican 50 peso bill, the picture Jose Maria Morelos wears one.
>
> Can someone tell me what do you call that style of cloth that people from the colonial days wore covering the scalp of their heads? It is like what the pirates wore.
>
>
> If there were a Nuestros Ranchos Colonial Costume party,  what style would you wear?
>
>

Comentario

Being from my father's mestizo, espanol, mulatto and indio lines in Zacatecas, I guess I would wear something like what the mestizos wore in those paintings from the books about the castas.Those books show not only the various colors of skin, but features, clothing, and homes of the various races.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 14:03:19 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] What colonial clothing style would you wear if there were a colonial costume party?
>
> The Colonial era of Mexico facinates me. I am curious about those carriages that were used for transportation. I saw one in a museum in Zacatecas.
>
> Also I am curios about the styles of clothing. For instance, the triangular colonial hats that they wore and also another style where some of the men wore scarf or cloth covering the scalps of their head. Kind of like what pirates wear.
>
> On the mexican 50 peso bill, the picture Jose Maria Morelos wears one.
>
> Can someone tell me what do you call that style of cloth that people from the colonial days wore covering the scalp of their heads? It is like what the pirates wore.
>
>
> If there were a Nuestros Ranchos Colonial Costume party, what style would you wear?
>
>

Comentario

My ancestors were the same groups as Emilies. I remembered being told abt our families love of white horses and burros.   In the 1930s Some cousins visited riding into town on white burros with their red hair.. my Dad called them cabezas de Mole! El Durazno was abt 5 miles from Jerez and Dad said the grandparents in late 1800's road horses or walked to Jerez. The men wore sombreros with wide brims turned up in the back. My Dad talked abt his grandfather always wearing leather chaps. I would think their station in life and occupation made all the difference in what they wore so it had to do more abt money than desire..
 
when I went to Jerez, Zac in 2003 I was surprised to see the local Yndios still wearing what I would call traditional clothing that one might have seen in the late 1800. White pants with no shoes and the women wore the traditional rebozo that is still worn today. In fact all the women especially the older women still wore the rebozo.
Linda in Everett

________________________________
From: Emilie Garcia
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] What colonial clothing style would you wear if there were a colonial costume party?

Being from my father's mestizo, espanol, mulatto and indio lines in Zacatecas, I guess I would wear something like what the mestizos wore in those paintings from the books about the castas.Those books show not only the various colors of skin, but features, clothing, and homes of the various races.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 14:03:19 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] What colonial clothing style would you wear if there were a colonial costume party?
>
> The Colonial era of Mexico facinates me. I am curious about those carriages that were used for transportation. I saw one in a museum in Zacatecas.
>
> Also I am curios about the styles of clothing. For instance, the triangular colonial hats that they wore and also another style where some of the men wore scarf or cloth covering the scalps of their head. Kind of like what pirates wear.
>
> On the mexican 50 peso bill, the picture Jose Maria Morelos wears one.
>
> Can someone tell me what do you call that style of cloth that people from the colonial days wore covering the scalp of their heads? It is like what the pirates wore.
>
>
> If there were a Nuestros Ranchos Colonial Costume party, what style would you wear?
>
>

Origin of the last name "Rubio"

Published by jlblonde –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

I have been researching the last name "Rubio" and I have come up with the following information:

Comentarios

Comentario

Yes, I have the book in my possession. My aunt brought it from Jalisco, Mexico.

For some reason I could not type more than a few words when I originally posted this topic. So the main part was left out. I'll try it again.

Is there a name or names you would like me to look up for you?
I'd be more than happy to do so. Just let me know.

Regards,

Joe Rubio

Romo from Aguascalientes to Northern Mexico

Published by Denise Hernand… –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello

I am researching the link between the Romo family of San Buenaventura and Nadadores in northern Mexico, and the Romo de Vivar family of Aguascalientes.

Comentarios

Comentario

Denise Fastrup

Hello

I am still searching for the marriage record for Don Joseph Raphael Romo and Maria Rafaela Aguilar. I have earlier posted some Romo names I have come across. Below is one more Romo which I found in the indexed FamilySearch source. The names of the parents are the same as for Joseph Raphael Prudencio Romo Alba b. 1765. So in other words there were two Raphael Romos born in the same decade, same place, same parents, and the question is which one married Maria Rafaela...then next question is if the Maria Rafaela mother of Manuel Romo who later moved San Buenaventura, is indeed the Maria Casilda Rafaela Aguilar Chaves who was born in Aguascalientes in 1763.

So if anyone out there has the record of birth/christening for Manuel Romo, from Aguascalientes, married to Maria Ygnacia Rodriguez in San Buenaventura, or the marriage record for Rapahel Romo and Maria Raphaela Aguilar of Aguascalientes, please post.

I have been through the Ag. Ag. Sagr. records for 1782 - 1787, and 1787 - 91, minus the ones that didnt show properly (which I am now rechecking) and have had no luck.

I have not been able to explore the church records for the image of Silvestres record of birth, due to technical issues with downloading the images, otherwise I'd of course make it available. But here is the basic info for anyone researching the Romos...

Name:

Jph. Raphael Silvestre Romo Alva

Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 20 Dec 1767
Baptism/Christening Place: EL SAGRARIO,AGUASCALIENTES,AGUASCALIENTES,MEXICO
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Antonio Romo
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Maria Ana De Alva
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Paternal Grandfather's Name:
Paternal Grandmother's Name:
Maternal Grandfather's Name:
Maternal Grandmother's name:

Indexing Project (Batch) Number:

C60484-4
System Origin:

Mexico-ODM
Source Film Number:

299533

Source Citation

"Mexico, Baptisms, 1560-1950," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NTMP-BZK : accessed 26 May 2012), Jph. Raphael Silvestre Romo Alva, 1767.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NTMP-BZK

Regards,
Denise Fastrup

Comentario

Denise Fastrup

I have now uploaded my genealogy under "Files" for anyone who might need information on the descendants of Don Joseph Raphael Romo in San Buenaventura, Nadadores, and Lampazos de Naranjo.

Comentario

Denise Fastrup

HERE ARE THE ROMOS I HAVE COME ACROSS IN THE IMAGES OF BAPTISM AND MARRIAGE, who knows, someone may be desperately seeking one of these:

Maria de la Soledad Romo (as mother)
In: Record of Baptism, Sagrario, Aguascalientes, 8 April 1760, image 28
Maria Gertrudis, hija lej.- parents are Joseph de Aranda and Maria de la Soledad Romo, españoles

Maria Romualda Romo
In: Record of Baptism, San Luis Potosi, 9 Feb 1804, image…(124?)
Maria Romualda, mestiza, hija lej. – parents Rafael Romo and Maria Hurvana Lira

Maria Ambrosia Romo
In: Record of Baptism, Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo, 1811 – 1816, 13 Dec 1812, image 61
Maria Ambrosia, india, hija lej. – parents Rafael Romo and Maria Hurvana Lira

Don Jossef Antonio Romo de Vivar,
In: Record of Marriage, Sagrario, Aguascalientes, 1772 – 1777, 28 april 1776, image 272
Don Jossef Antonio Romo de Vivar, español, from and resident of Lagos, legitímate son of Don Pedro Romo Vivar (deceased) and Dona Anna Maria Gonzalez, marries Dona Maria Jossefa de Leon, español, from San Rafael de los Hoyos, legitimite daughter of Don Manual de Leon (deceased) and Dona Maria Antonia Fernandez de Palos. Padrinos were Don Josse Ygnacio de Alba and Dona Maria de San Juan …?...Testigos (Witnesses) Esteban de Aguilar and Domingo Hernandez.

Jose Manuel Romo
In: Record of Marriage, Sagrario, Aguascalientes, 1797 – 98, 25 Jan 1797, image 246
Jose Manuel Romo, mestizo, born in and resident of Aguascalientes, legitimate son of Antonio Romo and Maria Felipe de Jesus, both deceased, marries Maria Guadalupe Esparza, espanola, born in and resident of Aguascalientes, legitimate daughter of Lucas de Esparza and Petra Cardona, deceased. Padrinos were Merced Macias and Manuela Josefa de Leon. Testigos were Juan Valadez and Jose ….?...Mora.

Dolores Romo (as mother)
In: Record of Marriage, Sagrario, Aguascalientes, 1791 – 97, image 153
Listed as mother, deceased, of Maria de Torres Castaneda in her record of marriage Feb 1795 to Pedro Castaneda.

Claudio Romo
In: Record of Marriage, Sagrario, Aguascalientes, 1791 – 97, 7 Sept 1794 image 141
Claudio Romo, espanol, born in and resident of Aguascalientes, legitimate son of Francisco Romo deceased, and Maria de S….?... Vrsua (Ursua), marries Maria Simona Esparza, espanola , born in and resident of Aguascalientes, legitimate daughter of Cornelio Esparza and Maria Dionicia Ursua, dispensation given due to consanguinity of the 4th degree. Padrinos were Vicente Esparza and Anna Maria Amado, testigos were Juan Valadez and Andres Lopez.

Dona Maria Dolores Romo
In: Record of Marriage, Sagrario, Aguascalientes, 1791 – 97, 4 June 1794 image 133
Jose Maria Marquez, esp, born in and resident of Aguascalientes, legitimate son of Esteban Marquez, deceased, and Dona Josefa Nieto, marries Dona Maria Dolores Romo de Vivar, esp, resident of Aguascalientes, legitimate daughter of Don Nicolas Romo de Vivar, deceased, and Dona Maria Antonia Gonzales, widow 7 years of Don Juan Antonio Nieto. Padrinos were Jose Rafael Esparza and Maria Josefa (?) Romo. Testigos were Jose Maria Morales and Juan Valadez.

(illegible) Romo (as mother)
In: Record of marriage, Sagrario, Aguascalientes, 1791 – 97, Nov 1790, image 110
(mestiza), born in and resident of Aguascalientes, legitimate daughter of Juan Medrano and (Pu…?...) Romo, widow of Pedro Alcantara Sanches.

Maria Rafaela Romo de Vivar (as bride)
In: Record of marriage, Sagrario, Aguascalientes, 1791 – 97, 12 nov 1793, image 105
Jose Raimundo Calvillo, esp from San Jose de la Isla, but born in Ojocaliente, past 5 years in Puento de Chichimeca, legitimate son of Miguel Calvillo and Maria Dolores Herrera, deceased, widower 9 years of Antonia Gertrudis Esparza, marries Maria Rafaela Romo de Vivar, esp, born and resident of Rincon de Romo, legitímate daughter of Juan Manuel Romo de Vivar and Maria Francisca Castorena, deceased.

Paula Romo
In: Record of marriage, Sagrario, Aguascalientes, 1791 – 97, 23 oct 1793, image 102
Paula Romo named as deceased wife of Felipe Ramirez , esp, of Cieneguilla, deceased 7 years, he remarries to a woman named Maria Dolores Guerra, illegitimate daughter of Maria Gertrudis Guerra.

Maria Ramona Romo (as bride)
In: Record of marriage, Sagrario, Aguascalientes, 1791 – 97, 27 july 1773, image 95
Miguel Muniz, esp, from Aguascalientes, legitimate son of Francisco Muniz and Margarita Velasquez, deceased, MM is widow of Luganda Alvarado “ya para tres meces sepultada”, marries Maria Ramona Romo, esp, from Pueblo de San Juan Cencilla and resident 4 months of Aguascalientes, legitímate daughter of Francisco Romo, deceased, and Maria de San Jose Urnia (¿)…

Maria Roza Roma (as padrina)
In: Record of marriage, Sagrario, Aguascalientes, 1791 – 97, 29 apr 1793, image 84
Marriage of Jose Urbano Santos and Lorenza Perez, padrina with Pedro Antonio Arenas.

Jose Manuel Romo (as padrino)
In: Record of marriage, Sagrario, Aguascalientes, 1787 – 91, 4 may 1791, image 271
Marriage of Juan Manuel Garcia and Maria Vacilia. Padrino together with Nicolasa Arenas.

Comentario

Denise Fastrup

There was another man named Raphael Romo, married to Maria Hurvana Lira, who lived in San Buenaventura at least from 1816 and at least up through 1825. This I have seen via the LDS records of the births of their children:

1804 Maria Romualda
1805 Maria Eulogia
1807 Jose Ydilfonso
1812 Maria Ambrosia
(FOUND: india, image 61, entry 520 in baptims, sagr. metro, Saltillo, 1811 - 1816)
1816 Maria Felipe
1820 Jose Fruto
1825 Rafael de Jesus

However, the grandparents are named in some of the entries, and they are not the names listed in the marriage record for Manual Romo. I have concluded they are not brothers. This Rafaels parents were Antonio Romo and Maria Antonia Velasco. One child is listed as india, another as mestiza (Romualda). The Romos I am looking for are listed as espanoles.

In case someone needs more details on these Romos, here is the link to the lds page with the search results:
https://familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bgivenna…

I also have noted marriages of other Romos I have seen in the images, I will post them also this weekend.

Catholic Priests

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I have an ancestor from the late 1800's that was a Catholic priest in Zacatecas (possibly Jerez). I would like to find documentation, of his education.

Donde encontrar testamentos jalisco???

Published by ppchuy –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Alguien sabrá donde se podrá ver por internet los testamentos antiguos de jalostotitlan , lagos, san Juan ,arandas y tepatitlan ,,, mil gracias de antemano

Comentarios

Comentario

Se pueden ver aqui:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.f…

Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic...Church Records, 1590-1995
Jalostotitlán
Nuestra Señora de la Asunción

https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A//api.famil…

joseph

=========================

Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of josejime@yahoo.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 12:14 AM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Donde encontrar testamentos jalisco???
>
> Alguien sabrá donde se podrá ver por internet los testamentos antiguos de
> jalostotitlan , lagos, san Juan ,arandas y tepatitlan ,,, mil gracias de
> antemano

Comentario

Hello Joseph,

The last wills are not in those links. They would be found in Notary
Records. I have not heard of any of them being put on line for Lagos, San
Juan, Jalos, Tepa, or Arandas.

For Lagos he would have to go personally to the Archivo Historico de la
Parroquia de la Asuncion de Lagos de Moreno maintained by Mario Gómez Mata
He can learn more about that in a post Miguel Beltrán made about the
inauguration at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19307

Armando

On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 6:04 AM, Joseph Puentes wrote:

> Se pueden ver aqui:
>
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.f…
>
> Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic...Church Records, 1590-1995
> Jalostotitlán
> Nuestra Señora de la Asunción
>
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A//api.famil…
>
> joseph
>
> =========================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> Clean@h2opodcast.com
> http://h2opodcast.com
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> > bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of josejime@yahoo.com
> > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 12:14 AM
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Donde encontrar testamentos jalisco???
> >
> > Alguien sabrá donde se podrá ver por internet los testamentos antiguos de
> > jalostotitlan , lagos, san Juan ,arandas y tepatitlan ,,, mil gracias de
> > antemano
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Comentario

Yes you are right. Have a look here for Notary records but they are in much more of a tangled mess than the Dispensa records that Claudia and others are in the process of untangling:

https://familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?d…

México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Archives and libraries - Directories
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Archives and libraries - Inventories, registers, catalogs
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Biography - Bibliography
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Census
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Church directories
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Church history
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Church records
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Civil registration
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Colonization
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Court records
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Directories
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Genealogy
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - History
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - History - Sources
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Land and property
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Maps
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Notarial records <=============================
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Politics and government - 1540-1810
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Probate records

If you do find something of interest you can order them from your local family history center.

Joseph

=========================

Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Armando
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 10:24 PM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Donde encontrar testamentos jalisco???
>
> Hello Joseph,
>
> The last wills are not in those links. They would be found in Notary
> Records. I have not heard of any of them being put on line for Lagos, San
> Juan, Jalos, Tepa, or Arandas.
>
> For Lagos he would have to go personally to the Archivo Historico de la
> Parroquia de la Asuncion de Lagos de Moreno maintained by Mario Gómez
> Mata He can learn more about that in a post Miguel Beltrán made about the
> inauguration at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19307
>
> Armando
>
> On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 6:04 AM, Joseph Puentes wrote:
>
> > Se pueden ver aqui:
> >
> >
> > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.
> > familysearch.org%2Frecords%2Fwaypoint%2F12503223%3Fcc%3D1874591
> >
> > Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic...Church Records, 1590-1995 Jalostotitlán
> > Nuestra Señora de la Asunción
> >
> >
> > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A//api.fami
> > lysearch.org/records/collection/1874591/waypoints
> >
> > joseph
> >
> > =========================
> >
> > Joseph Puentes
> > Clean@h2opodcast.com
> > http://h2opodcast.com
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> > > bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of josejime@yahoo.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 12:14 AM
> > > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Donde encontrar testamentos jalisco???
> > >
> > > Alguien sabrá donde se podrá ver por internet los testamentos
> > > antiguos de jalostotitlan , lagos, san Juan ,arandas y tepatitlan
> > > ,,, mil gracias de antemano
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Nuestros Ranchos Research
> > > Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Nuestros Ranchos Research
> > Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Research Digest, Vol 76, Issue 19

Published by preciasr –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Augustin,
 
You are truly amazing!  The information you have provided is a great start.  Thank you very much. One last question, what does it mean when it states 'this marriage required a con

how do i add another Municipality in the film section?

Published by katy_brecht_quesada –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

i'm not sure if i posted this in the correct category for this forum but i want to add films for Huejuquilla el Alto in the jalisco section of the films page.

Comentarios

Research Digest, Vol 76, Issue 20

Published by mimasep1959 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Zacatecano,

My primo in Aguascalientes who is very involved in Charreadas wears the scarf under his charro hat. I asked him why he wore it since I only recalled J.

Comentarios

Comentario

When working out in the yard I wear a straw sombrero, and I wear a scarf under it to keep the sweat out of my eyes and to keep the inside headband clean and dry. I assume that is why Apaches and Mexicans and Californios wore "rags" on their heads when out riding. The hats have a string that goes under the chin to keep the hat on in the wind.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> From: igomezlucero@csus.edu
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 23:43:27 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Research Digest, Vol 76, Issue 20
>
> Zacatecano,
>
> My primo in Aguascalientes who is very involved in Charreadas wears the scarf under his charro hat. I asked him why he wore it since I only recalled J. Ma Morelos and the Californios. His response was to keep the hat on. Apparently the silk scarf gives his hat traction. My primo is losing his hair by the way.
>
> Irma Gomez Gtz
> N. California
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "zacatecano020@hotmail.com"
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 2:03 PM
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] What colonial clothing style would you wear if there were a colonial costume party?
> >
> > The Colonial era of Mexico facinates me.? I am curious about those carriages that were used for transportation.? I saw one in a museum in Zacatecas.
> >
> > Also I am curios about the styles of clothing.? For instance, the triangular colonial hats that they wore and also another style where some of the men wore scarf or cloth covering the scalps of their head.? Kind of like what pirates wear.
> >
> > On the mexican 50 peso bill, the picture Jose Maria Morelos wears one.
> >
> > Can someone tell me what do you call that style of cloth that people from the colonial days wore covering the scalp of their heads? It is like what the pirates wore.
> >
> >
> > If there were a Nuestros Ranchos Colonial Costume party,? what style would you wear?
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Comentario

That string you are referring to is called a barbiquejo. Charros do use it
to keep their sombreros from flying off by placing it under their chin, but
they sometimes also place in between their chin and their bottom lip (right
at the crease between the bottom lip and the chin). I saw my grandfather
wear it both ways. If you go to a charreada or coleadero you'll see the
charros place the barbiquejo in both positions.

Juan Carlos Aguayo Munoz

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:

>
> When working out in the yard I wear a straw sombrero, and I wear a scarf
> under it to keep the sweat out of my eyes and to keep the inside headband
> clean and dry. I assume that is why Apaches and Mexicans and Californios
> wore "rags" on their heads when out riding. The hats have a string that
> goes under the chin to keep the hat on in the wind.
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>
> > From: igomezlucero@csus.edu
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 23:43:27 +0000
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Research Digest, Vol 76, Issue 20
> >
> > Zacatecano,
> >
> > My primo in Aguascalientes who is very involved in Charreadas wears the
> scarf under his charro hat. I asked him why he wore it since I only
> recalled J. Ma Morelos and the Californios. His response was to keep the
> hat on. Apparently the silk scarf gives his hat traction. My primo is
> losing his hair by the way.
> >
> > Irma Gomez Gtz
> > N. California
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: "zacatecano020@hotmail.com"
> > > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 2:03 PM
> > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] What colonial clothing style would you
> wear if there were a colonial costume party?
> > >
> > > The Colonial era of Mexico facinates me.? I am curious about those
> carriages that were used for transportation.? I saw one in a museum in
> Zacatecas.
> > >
> > > Also I am curios about the styles of clothing.? For instance, the
> triangular colonial hats that they wore and also another style where some
> of the men wore scarf or cloth covering the scalps of their head.? Kind of
> like what pirates wear.
> > >
> > > On the mexican 50 peso bill, the picture Jose Maria Morelos wears one.
> > >
> > > Can someone tell me what do you call that style of cloth that people
> from the colonial days wore covering the scalp of their heads? It is like
> what the pirates wore.
> > >
> > >
> > > If there were a Nuestros Ranchos Colonial Costume party,? what style
> would you wear?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Francisco De Luna

Published by edwardarceluna –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello everyone,I need some assistance please. If anyone is researching Tepechitlan, Tlatenango or El Teul, Zacatecas I am hoping you could help.

Comentarios

Comentario

My later line of Luna (which I am unable to trace back further) goes to:
Felix Luna who married Maria de los Angeles Trejo in 1851, in Tlaltenango.
I haven't been able to make definitive prior connections on the Luna
line. If there is a connection out there to this line, I'd sure be delighted.
Later descendants from this line that I was able to trace from Tlaltenango
include:
Felix Luna and Maria Trejo married 2/26/1851…
Ambrosio Luna Trejo b: 1851 and Patricia Sandoval
Atanacio Luna Trejo b: 1855 and Maria Florencia Herrera Corchado
Margarito Luna Trejo b: 1853 and Regina Herrera married in
1876
Maria Petra Luna Trejo: b: 1856

Comentario

Edward....I have not worked on my Luna line for several years,
now, I see that I need to verify some of the information.

Juan Lorenzo Luna - abt 1656
Tetela de Ocampo, Puebla
Church - Santa Maria de la Asuncion
spouse: Maria Magdalena

their son:
Francisco Luna 1676
film & batch numbers -  240526 - J600734

church - San Juan Evangelista - Acatzino, Puebla

spouse: Maria Beronica

their son:
Juan Antonio Luna - abt 1698
married 10 June 1718 - Acatzino Puebla
film & batch numbers 240564 - M605653
spouse - Theresa Fernandez

Their son:
Tadeo Nicolas Luna
according to marriage record, born Puesto de San Buena Ventura
Tlaltenango -
married 5 June 1740 - Colotlan, Jalisco
spouse - Juana Clemencia Alvarez
film & batch numbers - 443781 - M604661

Perhaps, your ancestors may have been in Puebla then,

Zacatecas.

I have a second Luna line, with later dates, that I have not been
able to connect with the first line. Hope this helps.

________________________________
From: "edwardarceluna@yahoo.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, January 9, 2012 8:41 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisco De Luna

Hello everyone,I need some assistance please. If anyone is researching Tepechitlan, Tlatenango or El Teul, Zacatecas I  am hoping you could help. I am reserching Francisco De Luna His wife is Maria De Tapia born in Tlatenango, Zacatecas on 1637, they had a son named Luise De luna Born in 1624 In Tlatenango, Zacatecas .
I cant seem to find any info on Francisco De Luna. Most of my ancesters are found in Arroyo Hondo, Tepechitlan, Tlatenango and El Teul, Zacatecas. I am assuming that Francisco might of came from colima or Guadalajara. Any Info or web site you might have will be helpfull. Francisco De Luna is my 10 great grnd father.

                                            Thank You

Comentario

Misteryriver:

I´m descendent of Juan Antonio de Luna and Teresa Fernandez, I found them in the marriage of Nicolas Tadeo de Luna my grand father x 7.

Are you sure about Juan Antonio de Luna was born in Puebla? is he son of Francisco de Luna? is the same person? Puebla is so far away from Tlaltenango.

Chema

Connections from Santa Fe to Mexico Interior connections- pre Re-Conquista (Pre-Popè Indian Revolt)

Published by brenndant5 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello,

I'm hoping I could discover good references or names of families who traveled to Santa Fe pre 1680. Sur names of Torres and Garcia (Garcia-Noriega)would be nice.

Comentarios

is racial miscategorization on old catholic church records common?

Published by katy_brecht_quesada –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I'm asking since when I will looking up birth records, and marriage records from my 5th great grandfather silvestre villaneda, and some of his siblings, the records were inconsitiant of the race part.

Comentarios

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Sáb, 2012-05-19 23:15 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Race iS a very touchy subject that sometimes it is best to not join in when it comes up. Many people considered seven eighths espanol as an espanol. Some people that were more sensitive would consider any amount of Indian descendany as coyote and still there are some people who would consider a drop of Indian blood to label them Indian. When I was growing up I remember hearing that If you had a drop of black blood than you were black . My father's skin color is white he takes after my paternal grandmother whose skin was the whitest that I have ever seen even whiter than my Swedish neighbors. My paternal grandfather was not dark yet his great grandmother had a white mother and a mulato father from teocaltiche This means that those that state that a few drops of black blood make a person black would call my dad black though you would have a very hard time finding anyone whiter than him. My dad and grandmother were not albinos but were as close to being albinos as you ca
n get without being albino
Race is a subject sometimes best left alone is what was trying to be communicated by Sr tovar de teresa. I do not believe that he was trying to offend anyone in discussing the subject
I believe that that his point was that there is no room for racist comments in a genealogical forum. Anyone doing serious genealogical work better be prepared for some surprises.
I have taken great joy in trying to unravel and take pride when I succeed In figuring out the cloaked "races" in my family
RA Ricci
Sent from my iPhone

On May 17, 2012, at 3:58 PM, detective1920@yahoo.com wrote:

> I'm asking since when I will looking up birth records, and marriage records from my 5th great grandfather silvestre villaneda, and some of his siblings, the records were inconsitiant of the race part. for example silvestre's marriage record says he's espanol, but his birth record says he's indio. one of his brothers ygnio/hignio birth records labels him as coyote. two of his siblings clemente, and maria antonia are also labeled indio. his sister reufgio is labeled as espanol.
>
> I am soo confused.
>
> have any of you guys have this problem?

Comentario

I agree Race IS a very touchy subject. If you all don't mind maybe we have
said enough about this subject for this thread. In the past this topic has
spiraled into long conversations that have turned into strong disagreements
that border on rudeness. I hate to step in but I've had to in the past and
am kind of jumping in early this time.

I have an idea though, if any of you all want to continue the discussion why
not take it to private email. Just copy and paste all the various email
addresses of the individuals and have at it via private email.

Thanks for understanding.

Joseph

=========================

Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 2:00 AM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] is racial miscategorization on old
> catholic church records common?
>
> Race iS a very touchy subject that sometimes it is best to not join in
> when it comes up. Many people considered seven eighths espanol as an
> espanol. Some people that were more sensitive would consider any amount
> of Indian descendany as coyote and still there are some people who would
> consider a drop of Indian blood to label them Indian. When I was growing
> up I remember hearing that If you had a drop of black blood than you were
> black . My father's skin color is white he takes after my paternal
> grandmother whose skin was the whitest that I have ever seen even whiter
> than my Swedish neighbors. My paternal grandfather was not dark yet his
> great grandmother had a white mother and a mulato father from teocaltiche
> This means that those that state that a few drops of black blood make a
> person black would call my dad black though you would have a very hard
> time finding anyone whiter than him. My dad and grandmother were not
> albinos but were as close to being albinos as you ca
> n get without being albino
> Race is a subject sometimes best left alone is what was trying to be
> communicated by Sr tovar de teresa. I do not believe that he was trying
> to offend anyone in discussing the subject
> I believe that that his point was that there is no room for racist
> comments in a genealogical forum. Anyone doing serious genealogical work
> better be prepared for some surprises.
> I have taken great joy in trying to unravel and take pride when I succeed
> In figuring out the cloaked "races" in my family RA Ricci Sent from my
> iPhone
>
> On May 17, 2012, at 3:58 PM, detective1920@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > I'm asking since when I will looking up birth records, and marriage
> records from my 5th great grandfather silvestre villaneda, and some of
> his siblings, the records were inconsitiant of the race part. for example
> silvestre's marriage record says he's espanol, but his birth record says
> he's indio. one of his brothers ygnio/hignio birth records labels him as
> coyote. two of his siblings clemente, and maria antonia are also labeled
> indio. his sister reufgio is labeled as espanol.
> >
> > I am soo confused.
> >
> > have any of you guys have this problem?
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Nuestros Ranchos Research
> > Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Comentario

Dear Detective, since you don't provide your first name, I must address you  by the name of detective.

What years are you talking about in terms of the particular records. In the early colonial days of Mexico, about 90 % of the inhabitants of colonial Mexico were indigenous people so anything is possible. If the records you're referring to are from the 1600's  to the 1700's it's very likely that they may have been indio's or indigenous people but keep searching to see what you find.

When posting a question, add as much information as possible such as the years, the town or the region, the more detail you provide, the more feedback you'll get.

Alicia,
San Jose, CA

________________________________
From: "detective1920@yahoo.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 3:58 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] is racial miscategorization on old catholic church records common?

I'm asking since when I will looking up birth records, and marriage records from my 5th great grandfather silvestre villaneda, and some of his siblings, the records were inconsitiant of the race part. for example silvestre's marriage record says he's espanol, but his birth record says he's indio. one of his brothers ygnio/hignio birth records labels him as coyote. two of his siblings clemente, and maria antonia are also labeled indio. his sister reufgio is labeled as espanol.

I am soo confused.

have any of you guys have this problem?

Comentario

In my own case, a family history of dispensas reaching back to the
1500-1600s is provided in one of the marriage entries in Luz Montejana
Hilton's book Sagrada Mitra for several of my ancestors. They are ALL
espanoles. Then an actual filmed (by the FHL) birth entry of the daughter
of the married couple in 175 something states she is Mestiza. Go
figure!!!! Marge :)

On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

> Dear Detective, since you don't provide your first name, I must address
> you by the name of detective.
>
> What years are you talking about in terms of the particular records. In
> the early colonial days of Mexico, about 90 % of the inhabitants of
> colonial Mexico were indigenous people so anything is possible. If the
> records you're referring to are from the 1600's to the 1700's it's very
> likely that they may have been indio's or indigenous people but keep
> searching to see what you find.
>
>
> When posting a question, add as much information as possible such as the
> years, the town or the region, the more detail you provide, the more
> feedback you'll get.
>
> Alicia,
> San Jose, CA
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "detective1920@yahoo.com"
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 3:58 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] is racial miscategorization on old catholic
> church records common?
>
> I'm asking since when I will looking up birth records, and marriage
> records from my 5th great grandfather silvestre villaneda, and some of his
> siblings, the records were inconsitiant of the race part. for example
> silvestre's marriage record says he's espanol, but his birth record says
> he's indio. one of his brothers ygnio/hignio birth records labels him as
> coyote. two of his siblings clemente, and maria antonia are also labeled
> indio. his sister reufgio is labeled as espanol.
>
> I am soo confused.
>
> have any of you guys have this problem?

Comentario

my first name is katherine.

anyway the records i am talking about were written during the 1700's. i'm not sure how many people had spanish ancestry back then in mexico, but i found it weird that even though the children in question had the same mom and dad(i think), their racial categorizations are different. one would expect full siblings to all be racially categorized the same.

this family lived in tepetongo. the parents are estevan villaneda and maria geronima montes. i'm talking about their children named silvestre, clemente, joseph maria de jesus, maria antonia ,refugio, and dionosio

Comentario

Dear Katherine,

Just remember that racial identity was strictly visual by the priest officiating, or what the parents reported. There was no DNA. Done of my family ancestors are described as Mulato in one church document and Español in another document. The caste system in Colonial Mexico was predominant. So take with a grain of salt. Welcome to the world of genealogy and history.

Paul J. Gomez
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Sent from my iPad

On May 19, 2012, at 10:13 PM, detective1920@yahoo.com wrote:

> my first name is katherine.
>
> A

Comentario

Váyase con cuidado. Le recomiendo quitarse el nombre de detective. Si quiere
meterse en cuestiones raciales, ponerse de detective es agresivo y
estúpido. Le advierto: TENGA MUCHO CUIDADO! En nuestra página no aceptamos
ni detectives ni racistas! Es una página genealógica, no policiaca. No vaya
a resultar que usted desciende de indios o de negros, que lo avergüencen.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de
detective1920@yahoo.com
Enviado el: Jueves, 17 de Mayo de 2012 05:58 p.m.
Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] is racial miscategorization on old catholic
church records common?

I'm asking since when I will looking up birth records, and marriage records
from my 5th great grandfather silvestre villaneda, and some of his siblings,
the records were inconsitiant of the race part. for example silvestre's
marriage record says he's espanol, but his birth record says he's indio. one
of his brothers ygnio/hignio birth records labels him as coyote. two of his
siblings clemente, and maria antonia are also labeled indio. his sister
reufgio is labeled as espanol.

I am soo confused.

have any of you guys have this problem?

Comentario

Creo que no tiene merito dar una respuesta tan agresiva a este participante ya que solo es la direccion de su correo personal. Un detective puede ser detective de muchas formas. Detective o investigador y creo que hasta cierto punto, todos somos detectives de la vida, mas si estamos estudiando a nuestros ancestros, nos sentimos como detectives. Creo o me imagino que su intencion no fue de ofender a nadie en este foro y asi lo tomare solo como comentario y no como algo ofensivo.

Sin mas, una humilde servidora a los miembros de este foro.

Que este bien senor Tovar, deseandole todo lo mejor.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: Guillermo Tovar de Teresa
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] is racial miscategorization on old catholic church records common?

Váyase con cuidado. Le recomiendo quitarse el nombre de detective. Si quiere
meterse en cuestiones raciales, ponerse de  detective es agresivo y
estúpido. Le advierto: TENGA MUCHO CUIDADO! En nuestra página no aceptamos
ni detectives ni racistas! Es una página genealógica, no policiaca. No vaya
a resultar que usted desciende de indios o de negros, que lo avergüencen.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de
detective1920@yahoo.com
Enviado el: Jueves, 17 de Mayo de 2012 05:58 p.m.
Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] is racial miscategorization on old catholic
church records common?

I'm asking since when I will looking up birth records, and marriage records
from my 5th great grandfather silvestre villaneda, and some of his siblings,
the records were inconsitiant of the race part. for example silvestre's
marriage record says he's espanol, but his birth record says he's indio. one
of his brothers ygnio/hignio birth records labels him as coyote. two of his
siblings clemente, and maria antonia are also labeled indio. his sister
reufgio is labeled as espanol.

I am soo confused.

have any of you guys have this problem?

Comentario

katherine brecht-

thank you for answering my question. i didn't know that you could pay a priest to mark your child as espanol. i'm guessing doing this was probably expensive so i wonder how they got the money to do that especially since native mexican weren't allowed to get higher paying jobs.

Comentario

the priest did not write the record, a scribe did.. for the most part our ancestors never saw the records and most did not read or write.

________________________________
From: "detective1920@yahoo.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] is racial miscategorization

katherine brecht-

thank you for answering my question. i didn't know that you could pay a priest to mark your child as espanol. i'm guessing doing this was probably expensive so i wonder how they got the money to do that especially since native mexican weren't allowed to get higher paying jobs.

Comentario

I found this also in the records from Zacatecas, Michocan and Jalisco so just chalked it up to the scribe deciding by how dark or light the child was.
I also read somewhere that the childs "race" could be bought with  money or parents who had money or prestige were upgraded  to Espanol. I know in the case of my Caldera lines the original Mother of Miguel  and Maria Caldera was an Yndian yet their decendants are always described as Espanol during the years race was recorded for the church.
Linda in Everett

________________________________
From: "detective1920@yahoo.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 3:58 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] is racial miscategorization on old catholic church records common?

I'm asking since when I will looking up birth records, and marriage records from my 5th great grandfather silvestre villaneda, and some of his siblings, the records were inconsitiant of the race part. for example silvestre's marriage record says he's espanol, but his birth record says he's indio. one of his brothers ygnio/hignio birth records labels him as coyote. two of his siblings clemente, and maria antonia are also labeled indio. his sister reufgio is labeled as espanol.

I am soo confused.

have any of you guys have this problem?

is anyone able to decipher what this death record is saying

Published by katy_brecht_quesada –
Foros
Genealogy Research

the record can be found in the link below. It's for a maria de la torre
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18455-14262-36?cc=1874591&wc…

Comentarios

Published by victorianonavarro (no verificado) – Sáb, 2012-05-19 16:49 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

I agree with rapalato's interpretation of the certificate, she died of tavardillo. According to the RAE dictionary, tabardillo may mean typhus (medical definition) or insolation (colloquial definition).

http://www.rae.es/rae.html
tabardillo.
(En b. lat. tabardilii, en port. tabardilho).
1. m. coloq. insolación (‖ malestar o enfermedad).
2. m. coloq. Persona alocada, bulliciosa y molesta.
3. m. Med. p. us. tifus (‖ enfermedad infecciosa).

~ pintado.
1. m. desus. tifus exantemático.

Victoriano Navarro

Comentario

good morning.. what is your first name?
I can't read it all either but I can read this part:
 
burial 20 Aug 1831 in San Luis de Colotlan,
Maria de la Torre Espanola from this jurisdiction in el puestro de la Voca age 40
died from fauaz..lla seria ???
husband: Phelipe Quesada
she received the sacraments

________________________________
From: "detective1920@yahoo.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 8:56 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] is anyone able to decipher what this death record is saying

the record can be found in the link below. It's for a maria de la torre
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18455-14262-36?cc=1874591&wc…

Sorry  for creating another thread again in the past two days, but the crusive in this record is very hard to read. the only part i was able read besides her name is that she died on august 20 1731, and that she was the wife of phelipe quezada.

i can't read the rest. i'm hopin g this records mentions her age and/or birthplace also.

Comentario

Posible interpretación a los datos del acta.

María de la Torre española del pueblo de la Voca casada

En 20 días del mes de agosto de mil setecientos treinta y uno ene sta parroquia de san luis de Colotlan el (excelentisimo Santiago Corona) Diò cristiana sepultura a María de la Torre española originaria de esta jurisdicción en el Pueblo de la Voca. C Con felipe Quezada vecino de los santos Inocentes Muriò de tabardillo y serìa de edad cuarenta años.

> Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 08:50:18 -0700
> From: longsjourney@yahoo.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] is anyone able to decipher what this death record is saying
>
> good morning.. what is your first name?
> I can't read it all either but I can read this part:
>
> burial 20 Aug 1831 in San Luis de Colotlan,
> Maria de la Torre Espanola from this jurisdiction in el puestro de la Voca age 40
> died from fauaz..lla seria ???
> husband: Phelipe Quesada
> she received the sacraments
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "detective1920@yahoo.com"
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 8:56 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] is anyone able to decipher what this death record is saying
>
> the record can be found in the link below. It's for a maria de la torre
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18455-14262-36?cc=1874591&wc…
>
> Sorry for creating another thread again in the past two days, but the crusive in this record is very hard to read. the only part i was able read besides her name is that she died on august 20 1731, and that she was the wife of phelipe quezada.
>
> i can't read the rest. i'm hopin g this records mentions her age and/or birthplace also.
>

Comentario

It appears that she died on the same day as her burial. She was from Las Boacas (ranch) and was married to Phelipe Quesada and died of "Fauazdilla?". She was 40 according to the record. Does anyone know the translation of the cause of death.

Jose Carlos de Leon

Research Digest, Vol 76, Issue 16

Published by julietamartha –
Foros
Genealogy Research

> No se porque se enoja Guillermo Tovar de Teresa, la persona llamada detective solo se esta encontrando con un problema muy comun cuando uno busca en los archivos de la Iglesia y no se porque afirm

Padres de Juan Manuel Alvarez Tostado y Maria Josefa Lomelin

Published by tioallan –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hola Primos, me he detenido en mi busqueda por no encontrar a los padres de Juan Manuel Alvarez Tostado y de Maria Josefa Lomelin,

Comentarios

Comentario

Adrián Márquez Padilla

segun los registros de nacimiento de sus hijos Jose Ignacio, Juan Manuel y Jose Antonio Alejandro ellos radicaban en Nochistlan, Zacatecas, pero en family search no hay registros religiosos de Zacatecas..

Joseph Antonio Alexandro Alvares Lomelin 07 Aug 1747 NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO

Comentario

Estimado Adrián:

Si hay registros religiosos de Zacatecas en Familysearch. Se encuentran en
el mismo directorio o archivo que se encuentran los de Aguascalientes. El
enlace de los de Zacatecas es el siguiente -
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.f…

El siguiente enlace es el mismo pero mas corto - http://goo.gl/MMCLl

Saludos
Armando

2012/5/17

> Adrián Márquez Padilla
>
> segun los registros de nacimiento de sus hijos Jose Ignacio, Juan Manuel y
> Jose Antonio Alejandro ellos radicaban en Nochistlan, Zacatecas, pero en
> family search no hay registros religiosos de Zacatecas..
>
> Joseph Antonio Alexandro Alvares Lomelin 07 Aug 1747
> NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
>

Comentario

Adrián Márquez Padilla

Muchas gracias Armando por la dirección, enfocare la busqueda hacia esa area, por lo revizado esta pareja vivia en Mesticacan y llevaban sus oficios en Nochistlan, Zacatecas, en donde se encuentran muchos personajes con el apellido Lomelin, ya te ire informando de los avances.

En la busqueda de los padres de Juan Manuel Alvarez Tostado y de Maria Josepha Felix de Lomelin, he encontrado que radicaban en Mesticacan, pero al parecer eran originarios de Jalostotitlan, en el bautismo de su hijo Jose Antonio Alejandro, aparecen como padrinos Francisco Alvarez Tostado y Maria Antonia de Lomelin, buscando este matrimonio nos informa de los padres de ambos.
Padres de Francisco Xavier Alvarez Tostado: Joseph Alvarez y Magdalena Enriquez, (Joseph era ya viudo de Maria Manuela Delgadillo)
Padres de Maria Antonia de Lomelin: Antonio Lomelin y Petronila Alvarez Tostado,
El matrimonio se llevo a cabo el 14 de febrero de 1751 (se tiene la imagen del acta).

Pudiera ser que Juan Manuel y Francisco Javier fueran hermanos y asi mismo Josepha Felix y Maria Antonia, solo se podra confirmar encontrando el acta de matrimonio de Juan Manuel y Josepha.

Saludos

Comentario

 
Yolanda

________________________________
From: "adrianmapa50@yahoo.com.mx"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Padres de Juan Manuel

Adrián Márquez Padilla

Muchas gracias Armando por la dirección, enfocare la busqueda hacia esa area, por lo revizado esta pareja vivia en Mesticacan y llevaban sus oficios en Nochistlan, Zacatecas, en donde se encuentran muchos personajes con el apellido Lomelin, ya te ire informando de los avances.

En la busqueda de los padres de Juan Manuel Alvarez Tostado y de Maria Josepha Felix de Lomelin, he encontrado que radicaban en Mesticacan, pero al parecer eran originarios de Jalostotitlan, en el bautismo de su hijo Jose Antonio Alejandro, aparecen como padrinos Francisco Alvarez Tostado y Maria Antonia de Lomelin, buscando este matrimonio nos informa de los padres de ambos.
Padres de Francisco Xavier Alvarez Tostado: Joseph Alvarez y Magdalena Enriquez, (Joseph era ya viudo de Maria Manuela Delgadillo)
Padres de Maria Antonia de Lomelin: Antonio Lomelin y Petronila Alvarez Tostado,
El matrimonio se llevo a cabo el 14 de febrero de 1751 (se tiene la imagen del acta).

Pudiera ser que Juan Manuel y Francisco Javier fueran hermanos y asi mismo Josepha Felix y Maria Antonia, solo se podra confirmar encontrando el acta de matrimonio de Juan Manuel y Josepha.

Saludos

Gomes' of Tecolotlan, Jalisco

Published by coronaarechiga –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I was going through the latest list of Matrimonial Dispensations, thanks to the hard work of our friends of NR, and researched the dispensation of Jose Altamirano and Maria Rita Garcia de Alba:

San Cristobal de la Barranca

Published by MariaCortez –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hola Jose Luis,
Aunque no comparto los mismos apellidos que tu mencionas, si tengo ancestros
de la Estanzuela, Zac. y de San Cristobal de la Barranca, Jalisco. No he
avanzado la linea de San Cristobal de la Barranca mucho. Solo tengo copia

Comentarios

Comentario

Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez

Yo vi muchos Guzman en los registros de Mezquital del oro entre 1766 y 1809 posteriormente mandaron los archivos por El teul pero tambien yo perdi el rastro ya que no encuentrio los microfilms en linea

Comentario

Juan
Yo estoy siguiendo la linea de mi madre ,hija de Teresa Guzman originaria de la estanzuela y estoy recolectando toda la informacion de todos los de apellido guzman para saber la relacion y el origen podemos intercambiar informacion.
Jose luis felix

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: juan.alvarez@sanmina-sci.com
> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:57:40 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Guzman de La estanzuela
>
> Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez
>
> Yo vi muchos Guzman en los registros de Mezquital del oro entre 1766 y 1809 posteriormente mandaron los archivos por El teul pero tambien yo perdi el rastro ya que no encuentrio los microfilms en linea

Comentario

Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez

Gracias Felix por el correo, solo que yo en mis estudios de genealogia ando buscando el apellido Sanchez del rancho la Tetilla, algunos de mis ancestros se casaron con Antonia Guzman y uno Con Petra Guzman haya por 1820-1830 pero no me enfoque a investigar el apellido Guzman, si estas interesado buscar en los microfilms o los de Nuestros ranchos en Mezquital del Oro 1766-1809 encontraras personas con el apellido Guzman ubicadas principalmente en La Hacienda de la Estanzuela, por alguna razon la zona conformada por La Hacienda de La estanzuela, Rancho La Tetilla y La Ceja entre otras pasaron a los registros del Teul. El problema es que estos registros no estan completos y tendrias que pedir los microfilms para revisarlos.

Saludos y suerte.

Comentario

Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez

Jose Luis, buscando dispensas de mi familia encontre una Dispensa Matrimonial que retrocede hasta alrededor de 1740 hasta Hermenejildo Guzman padre de Vicente Guzman y Rafael Guzman que nacieron por Mezquital del Oro y se fueron a radicar a La Estanzula y en un tiempo vivieron en el Rancho El Escalon, San Cristobal de la Barranca y dice

Tronco Hermenegildo Guzman
Rafael Guzman---------Vicente Guzman
Laureano Guzman-------Carmen Guzman (hombre)
Maria Reyes Guzman----Juan Guzman
Juan Valle(novio)-----Jesus Guzman(novia)

Juan Valle era hijo de Eusebio Valle Guzman y nieto de Andrea Guzman.
De esos Guzman desciende el exprocurador de Jalisco asesinado Lic Leobardo Larios Guzman.

Comentario

Hola Juan Como estas?:Disculpa pero hasta hoy vi tu mensaje,ya casi no participo por razon de que mi esposa se encuentra enferma y no tengo mucho tiempo disponible,yo desciendo por parte de mi Abuela Materna,Teresa Guzman,hija de Juan Guzman,Juan Hijo de Teodoro Guzman,Teodoro hijo de Bernardo Guzman todos orijinarios de La Estanzuela,Zac.me gustaria ver esa dispensa podrian ser mis ancestros.Saludos.

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: juan.alvarez@sanmina-sci.com
> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:27:42 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Guzman de La Estanzuela
>
> Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez
>
> Jose Luis, buscando dispensas de mi familia encontre una Dispensa Matrimonial que retrocede hasta alrededor de 1740 hasta Hermenejildo Guzman padre de Vicente Guzman y Rafael Guzman que nacieron por Mezquital del Oro y se fueron a radicar a La Estanzula y en un tiempo vivieron en el Rancho El Escalon, San Cristobal de la Barranca y dice
>
> Tronco Hermenegildo Guzman
> Rafael Guzman---------Vicente Guzman
> Laureano Guzman-------Carmen Guzman (hombre)
> Maria Reyes Guzman----Juan Guzman
> Juan Valle(novio)-----Jesus Guzman(novia)
>
> Juan Valle era hijo de Eusebio Valle Guzman y nieto de Andrea Guzman.
> De esos Guzman desciende el exprocurador de Jalisco asesinado Lic Leobardo Larios Guzman.
>
>
>
>

Comentario

Hola Maria Cortez y a todos:
ESTE FIN DE SEMANA PASADO ME CONTACTE CON UN FAMILIAR LEJANO HASTA GUADALAJARA JALISCO .Y ME HIZO UNA CORRECCION
CON EL APELLIDO PATERNO DE "ESTEFANA" HERA "RODRIGUEZ" Y NO MARIN COMO YO TENIA ENTENDIDO.ASI LA SITUACION CAMBIA PUES LA INFORMACION AHORA SERA ,MATRIMONIO DE "JUAN GUZMAN CON ESTEFANA RODRIGUEZ"QUE HERAN MIS BISABUELOS MATERNOS.
GRACIAS A TODOS POR SU TOLERANCIA.
JOSE LUIS FELIX> > Hola a todos:> > Me da mucho gusto de ser miembro de este grupo, desde hace un poco mas de 3> > meses ,y quiero hacer publico mi agradecimiento a Hector Felix Aizorbe ,por> > la ayuda baliosisima que me ha brindado para formar mi arbol geneologico.> > Estoy detenido en algunos datos ,he mandado pedir algunos microfilms en un> > Centro Familiar Historico de aqui en el Condado de Riverside California> > ,pero estan en back order ,eso es lo que me dicen ,ya hace casi 2 meses .En> > unos de los datos que estoy detenido son ,sobre los abuelos maternos por> > parte de mi Mama :que fueron "Juan Guzman y Estefana Marin "casados en el> > pueblo de san Cristobal de la Barranca Jalisco,el 16 de febrero de 1886> > :microfilm 1108704 y el Batch# M602306 pero desgraciadamente no hay mas> > datos ,tengo entendido que la mama de Juan Guzman fue martha castro pero> > desconosco el nombre del padre.tambien tengo entendido que ellos heran del> > pueblo de La Estanzuela hoy "G
arcia de la Cadena Zac." Pero no existe ningun> > microfilm de esa poblacion> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety.
http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_W…

Rio Chico - Jalisco

Published by rmromo –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

I have a grandfather - Andres "Chito" Romo that was from Teocaltiche, Jalisco and that he was born in Rio Chico. Does anyone know if this

is or was a rancho or a colonia???

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Rolando,

I believe Rio Chico was a rancho near Teocaltiche. I have a few lines in my
tree that are from Rio Chico, Teocaltiche, specifically the Acosta Ornelas
and Gonzalez Chavez families.

A good resource about Teocaltiche is Nicolas de Anda Sanchez book "Historia
de Teocaltiche Pueblo de La Region Caxcana Nueva Galicia-Zona de Los Altos
de Jalisco".

I saw a post online that mentions that this book lists Rio Chico as a
rancho. I'd like to confirm this as I looked for the location Rio Chico
myself.

Juan

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:42 PM, Rolando Romo wrote:

> I have a grandfather - Andres "Chito" Romo that was from Teocaltiche,
> Jalisco and that he was born in Rio Chico. Does anyone know if this
>
> is or was a rancho or a colonia???

Comentario

Thank you Juan. I am glad that I asked. I am going to search for the book on Teocaltiche and see if I can locate one. I have drawn a wall on my search for Romos there and perhaps the book will assist me. There are supposed to be Romos all over this region.

If I find anything on Rio Chico, I will report back. Gracias! Rolando

________________________________
From: Juan Aguayo
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; Rolando Romo
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Rio Chico - Jalisco

Hi Rolando,
 
I believe Rio Chico was a rancho near Teocaltiche. I have a few lines in my tree that are from Rio Chico, Teocaltiche, specifically the Acosta Ornelas and Gonzalez Chavez families.
 
A good resource about Teocaltiche is Nicolas de Anda Sanchez book "Historia de Teocaltiche Pueblo de La Region Caxcana Nueva Galicia-Zona de Los Altos de Jalisco".
 
I saw a post online that mentions that this book lists Rio Chico as a rancho. I'd like to confirm this as I looked for the location Rio Chico myself.
Juan
 

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:42 PM, Rolando Romo wrote:

I have a grandfather - Andres "Chito" Romo that was from Teocaltiche, Jalisco and that he was born in Rio Chico. Does anyone know if this
>
>is or was a rancho or a colonia???

Comentario

You can get the book at from this link
http://www.borderlandsbooks.com/ourbooks.asp?catid=4&sortid=ItemAuthorL…

What are the names and dates for the family you are stuck on?

Armando

On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Rolando Romo wrote:

> Thank you Juan. I am glad that I asked. I am going to search for the book
> on Teocaltiche and see if I can locate one. I have drawn a wall on my
> search for Romos there and perhaps the book will assist me. There are
> supposed to be Romos all over this region.
>
> If I find anything on Rio Chico, I will report back. Gracias! Rolando
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Juan Aguayo
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; Rolando Romo
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Rio Chico - Jalisco
>
>
> Hi Rolando,
>
> I believe Rio Chico was a rancho near Teocaltiche. I have a few lines in
> my tree that are from Rio Chico, Teocaltiche, specifically the Acosta
> Ornelas and Gonzalez Chavez families.
>
> A good resource about Teocaltiche is Nicolas de Anda Sanchez book
> "Historia de Teocaltiche Pueblo de La Region Caxcana Nueva Galicia-Zona de
> Los Altos de Jalisco".
>
> I saw a post online that mentions that this book lists Rio Chico as a
> rancho. I'd like to confirm this as I looked for the location Rio Chico
> myself.
> Juan
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:42 PM, Rolando Romo wrote:
>
> I have a grandfather - Andres "Chito" Romo that was from Teocaltiche,
> Jalisco and that he was born in Rio Chico. Does anyone know if this
> >
> >is or was a rancho or a colonia???

AVALOS, ORNELAS,QUEZADA,DE LOS ANGELES,,MORALES,

Published by ppchuy –
Foros
Genealogy Research

HOLA A TODOS LOS COMPANEROS DEL FORO,,, E ESTADO ESTUDIANDO ESTAS RAMAS DE APEHIDOS QUE NO ESTAN MUY VISTAS PERO AL PARECER SON RAMAS QUE ESTAN ARRAIGADAS DESDE PRINCIPIOS DE 1600 POR LO QUE HE REVIZA

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola primo, yo no desciendo de ninguna de las ramas que mencionas, pero por ser de interés para la genealogía de los alteños hace algún tiempo revisando una dispensa matrimonial, también encontré que un hermano de Catalina de los Ángeles es un hombre llamado Juan Alvarado, el cual tuvo por hija a Magdalena Alvarado mujer de Rafael Ornelas. Espero te sirva de algo esta información.

Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.

Comentario

La dispensa a la que hago mención es la de Rafael Mendoza (Ornelas y Mendoza) con Catalina López (López de Elizalde) en 1681. Son dos parentescos a los que se hace mención a esta dispensa. Es muy interesante porque también se menciona a otro hijo de Álvaro de Ornelas e Isabel de Mendoza, el cual yo no había visto en otros documentos o menciones.

Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.

Comentario

Don PPChuy

Te informo que los Apellidos Avalos, Quezada y Ornelas que mencionas SI están incluídos en la obra "Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia", aunque son muy breves los aprtados de los mismos.

Saludos cordiales

Lo que das fructifica. Lo que te guardas se pudre.
Miguel Beltran

Comentario

Así es PPChuy, es la edicion puesta a la venta el año pasado que consta de 10 volumenes, misma que me hizo el favor de conseguirme y enviarme el profe Raul Hurtado, miembro de este grupo ,radicado en la zona de Guadalajara y quien ha ofrecido en varias ocaciones hacer el mismo servicio a quien lo requiera.

Saludos.
Lo que das fructifica. Lo que te guardas se pudre.
Miguel Beltran

Haciendas de Zacatecas/Jalisco

Published by Leticia –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

I've been visiting ex-haciendas in Zac, their is one that is borderline Zac/Jal it's name is "el terrero" it once belonged to el genereral Anacleto Lopez, who also lived in hacienda de "Viboras".

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Leticia,

I have Lopez from a rancho called Atotonilco that is close to Hujucar. Which
is not that far from a rancho called Vivoras that is close to Tepetongo,
Zacatecas. From Vivoras I have Varela

What are the names of Anacleto Lopez' parents and grandparents?

Joseph

=========================

Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:general-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of lettyinmay@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 11:20 PM
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Haciendas de Zacatecas/Jalisco
>
> I've been visiting ex-haciendas in Zac, their is one that is borderline
> Zac/Jal it's name is "el terrero" it once belonged to el genereral
> Anacleto Lopez, who also lived in hacienda de "Viboras". I been trying
> to find documentation or any type of history on this hacinda "el Terrero"
> does anyone know where I could find information? Would really appreciate
> it.
> Thank you very much.
> Leticia Salazar
>
>

Comentario

I have been trying to learn more about Hacienda del Fuerte which is supposed to be in ruins near El Fuerte or Rio Grande, Zacatecas, Mexico where my paternal family lived. I have tried googling using various different key words but not found much about it beyond a suggestion that it might also be undergoing preservation renovations. Has anybody heard of it or know where I might learn more about Hacienda del Fuerte? My paternal gg grandparents were married there in the hacienda chapel in 1874.

Thanks,
Juli D. Quinteros de Hernandez
Dallas, Texas

Comentario

Antonio

Hacienda De Las Viboras is located in Jerez, Zacatecas, Mexico. I saw the archives of Xerez for the 1600's years.

El Terrero? In the Huejuquilla area where we are from, don't recall any ranchos or haciendas there. But there is a terrain that is referred to "El Terrero" Been there several times. Just some Adobe homes in a terrain about 20 minutes away from Huejuquilla.

Comentario

This is for the group,

My name is Welester G. Alvarado Carrillo and as of lately I have not been participating in the debates and such . I currently live in Monterrey, Mexico and next week I will be visiting Tonala , Jalisco . My question here is , anyone live close by to Tonala or does anyone have any advice .

Thanks ,
Welester

Comentario

Antonio, is there a direct email where I could send you a picture of the hacienda Im researching, it might not be an hacienda but an estancia or rancho de agua, I need to find any history available on it.

Thank you very much for your reply.

Leticia Salazar

Comentario

Lety, While I did not find information regarding Hacienda el Terrero, I did find this article regarding the Hacienda Troncoso and other Haciendas and it also mentions Hacienda de las Viboras. Here's the link, I hope you can read Spanish because it's actually quite interesting. It speaks of the reconstruction of several Haciendas, the first one to be re-constructed to become a museum will be "El Terrero"
http://www.informador.com.mx/cultura/2010/230579/6/ex-haciendas-en-zaca…

Alicia,

San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: "lettyinmay@aol.com"
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:19 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Haciendas de Zacatecas/Jalisco

I've been visiting ex-haciendas in Zac, their is one that is borderline Zac/Jal it's name is "el terrero" it once belonged to el genereral Anacleto Lopez, who also lived in hacienda de "Viboras".  I been trying to find documentation or any type of history on this hacinda "el Terrero" does anyone know where I could find information? Would really appreciate it.
Thank you very much.
Leticia Salazar

password

Published by Amelia –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Gracias por darme la oportunidad de ser parte de su grupo. Aqui le mando la informcion que me pide.         holli32@yahoo.com    Password  june1932

Amelia

Surname Salas, marriage records for Senor San Jose en Ojuelos

Published by Denise Hernand… –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello

I am having trouble finding the marriage records for Senor San Jose en Ojuelos online in FamilySearch - does anyone know if they are even there?

Comentarios

Comentario

Denise Fastrup
Wow!You've been busy doing my homework! Thanks! I did find 7 potential siblings at Family Search, but did not find an indexed record for Juana herself.
For anyone out there who might need a lead, these are:

Rafael b. 31 Oct 1830 Senor San Jose
Maria Estafania b. 03 Jan 1833 Senor San Jose
Jose Ynes b. 02 March 1834 Senor San Jose
Jose Viviano b. 06 Dec. 1835 Cienega de Mata
Maria Margarita b. 15 Jun 183 Cienega de Mata
Cenovia 22 Jan 1843 Senor San Jose
Maria Genoveba 12 Jan 1845 Senor San Jose

And you've provided Juanas grandparents - that is a big help. I am sure there are others researching Salas, Martinez, Hernandez, Velos and Delgadillo who will also find the information useful. Thanks for correcting the age of the groom and for deciphering the origins of Juana.
As soon as I have time, I will look up the images on the other marriages, and see what other information is there, sometimes the priest notes indio or other category, and sometimes its interesting to see who the padrinos were.
Regards
Denise

Comentario

Denise Fastrup

Found it!

Doroteo Salas, age 21, native of Ojuelos, is the legitimate son of Sotero Salas (deceased) and Juana Aguilar (living).

Juana Martinez, age 16, (not originally from Ojuelos,village name is illegible) is the legitimate daughter of Rafael Martinez and Antonia Hernandez ,both living.

Married 25 Sept. 1865.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18685-2184-13?cc=1874591&wc=…

Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic...Church Records, 1590-1995
Ojuelos
San José
Matrimonios 1839-1867
Image 437 of 503

Again,Thank you VERY MUCH Armando!

Denise Fastrup

Comentario

Your welcome Denise. That document says Juana Martínez is originaria de la
Quebrada jurisdiccion de Lagos y vecina de Ojuelos desde su infancia.

La Quebrada would have been a ranch I am not familiar with. Lagos is the
city of Lagos de Moreno which is close to Ojuelos.

This looks to be a baptism of a sister of Juana Martinez

Name: Maria Margarita Martinez Hernandes
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 15 Jun 1837
Baptism/Christening Place: CIENEGA DE MATA, OJUELOS, JALISCO, MEXICO
Birthplace: Sexa
Father's Name: Rafael Martinez
Mother's Name: Maria Antonia Hernandes
Paternal Grandfather's Name: Simon Martinez
Paternal Grandmother's Name: Rosalia Delgadillo
Maternal Grandfather's Name: Sebastian Hernandez
Maternal Grandmother's name: Antonia Velos
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60704-6
Source Film Number: 640157
Reference Number: 2:PGC5MR
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N6QY-FFH

Cienega de Mata is part of the municipio of Lagos de Moreno.

Here is the marriage info of Rafael Martinez and Maria Antonia

Groom's Name: Rafael Martinez
Groom's Birth Date: 1801
Groom's Age: 20
Bride's Name: Maria Antonia Velos
Bride's Birth Date: 1804
Bride's Age: 17
Marriage Date: 10 Jan 1821
Marriage Place: Cienega De Mata,Ojuelos,Jalisco,Mexico
Groom's Father's Name: Simon Martinez
Groom's Mother's Name: Rosalia Delgadillo
Bride's Mother's Name: Maria Antonia Velos
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60232-7
Source Film Number: 641017
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JCZK-WB8

Rafael Martinez appears as Jose Rafael Martin Delgadillo in his baptism

Name: Jose Rafael Martin Delgadillo
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 26 Jan 1800
Baptism/Christening Place: Ciénega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico
Father's Name: Jose Simon Martin
Mother's Name: Maria Rosalia Delgadillo
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Paternal Grandfather's Name:
Paternal Grandmother's Name:
Maternal Grandfather's Name:
Maternal Grandmother's name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60704-2
System Origin: Mexico-EASy
Source Film Number: 640153
Reference Number: 2:1XWCL0C
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N6QG-252

Saludos
Armando

On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 4:11 PM, wrote:

> Denise Fastrup
>
> Found it!
>
> Doroteo Salas, age 21, native of Ojuelos, is the legitimate son of Sotero
> Salas (deceased) and Juana Aguilar (living).
> Juana Martinez, age 16, (not originally from Ojuelos,village name is
> illegible) is the legitimate daughter of Rafael Martinez and Antonia
> Hernandez ,both living.
>
> Married 25 Sept. 1865.
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.3.1/TH-1-18685-2184-13?cc=**
> 1874591&wc=12507737
> Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic...Church Records, 1590-1995 Ojuelos
> San José
> Matrimonios 1839-1867
> Image 437 of 503
>
> Again,Thank you VERY MUCH Armando!
>
> Denise Fastrup

Comentario

Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic...Church Records, 1590-1995 Ojuelos San
José

https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.famil…

Good luck
Armando

On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 4:32 AM, wrote:

> Hello
> I am having trouble finding the marriage records for Senor San Jose en
> Ojuelos online in FamilySearch - does anyone know if they are even there?
>
> There are records for Immaculada Concepcion, but that's a different
> Parroquia, and when I checked anyway for the marriage of Doroteo Salas and
> Juana Martinez, it was not there.
>
> I am trying to find out if the parents of Doroteo Salas were Narciso Salas
> and Estafana Lopez. I found a record of baptism for a Jesus Doroteo Salas
> Lopez, 1833, Aguascalientes, with these names in Family Search Index.
> Doroteo Salas who married Juana Martinez named one of his daughters
> Estafania.He lived in Ojuelos but in 1909 moved to San Antonio Texas with
> his wife, sons and granchildren. I dont know if he is in fact Jesus Doroteo
> Salas Lopez, that is what I am trying to find out. in the 1910 census he
> gave his age as 74, which would give a birth year of 1836.
>
> Hope someone can enlighten me!
>
>
> Regards/Muchas gracias
> Denise Fastrup
>
>

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