For those members of the group that will be going to the meeting in
Valle de Guadalupe this weekend a new member of the group Carlos
Yturralde would like info about this meeting. Can you email him directly
Thanks for the info Joseph. Wish you could attend the reunion.
Rick
There is more info about her ancestors in my gedcom in this site.
I also am expecting for Lic Mariano Gonzalez-Leal next edition of Retonos...to know more about this line that took the apellido compuesto Cos Y Leon or Coss Y Leon, nowdays this decendancy in U. S. A. turn it into Cossyleon.
Hi, I was wondering if you know when the 3rd Tomo for Retoños de España will come out? I am about to purchase the first too within the coming week. Thank You. -Daniel
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I asked mr Mariano Gonzalez Leal a couple of days ago, and he responded that they are editing and can finish this year as well as next year.
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Mendez
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Petra Guadalupe De Leon Aguirre
Hi, I was wondering if you know when the 3rd Tomo for Retoños de España will come out? I am about to purchase the first too within the coming week. Thank You. -Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
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Hi, Daniel. I don't know when the 3rd. vol. will be published. I hope
someone attending the Valle de Guadalupe Conference will have an answer.
Mariano Gonzalez Leal is suppose to attend it. Unfortunately, Mr. Gonzalez
has not been very forthcoming with the information. - Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Mendez"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Petra Guadalupe De Leon Aguirre
Hi, I was wondering if you know when the 3rd Tomo for Retoños de España will
come out? I am about to purchase the first too within the coming week. Thank
You. -Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety.
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Sunday, Jul 27, 2008
Glad I was able to help you.
Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
San Diego, Ca.
--- Marionicia wrote:
>
> There is more info about her ancestors in my gedcom
> in this site.
> I also am expecting for Lic Mariano Gonzalez-Leal
> next edition of Retonos...to know more about this
> line that took the apellido compuesto Cos Y Leon or
> Coss Y Leon, nowdays this decendancy in U. S. A.
> turn it into Cossyleon.
>
> Thank you Patricia, I didn´t know about her second
> marriage.
> Indeed I have now more to work on.
Hello Sandra,
My family comes from Jalostotitlan, and I'm curious if your
Gomez are Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza or Gomez de Portugal. I've been
researching my paternal Gomez line, and it is Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza.
Hola Irma!
First of all, thanks for your response! Our Ranchos primos have been really quiet with me lately :-)
Well, I really don't know. My finds have been amazing though because my grandfather was born out of wedlock, my dad didn't know anything about his family. I started putting the pieces together with the help of the 1930 census we recently got access to.
This is the thread:
Grandfather: Pedro Gomez, born in Juchipila, Zacatecas out of wedlock in 1893.
Great grandfather: Juan Gomez, born in Moyahua, Zacatecas in 1866... married to Angela Benavides (real wife).
GG grandfather: Toribio Gomez, born in Yahualica, married to Regina de Luna in Ystlahuacan del Rio, Jalisco.
GGG grandfather: Juan Gomez, married to Maria de Jesus Carrillo in Jalos.
GGGG grandfather: Francisco Gomez, married to Ana Quiteria de Agredano.
I'm not sure which rancho or anything!
Saludos!!
----- Original Message ----
From: Irma GomezLucero
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 11:33:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza or Gomez de Portugal
Hello Sandra,
My family comes from Jalostotitlan, and I'm curious if your
Gomez are Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza or Gomez de Portugal. I've been
researching my paternal Gomez line, and it is Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza.
If it's the same, then maybe we can compare lines and see where your
Francisco Gomez might tie in. Also do you have a Rancho for your Gomez?
This might help with the mystery...
Thanks,
Irma Gomez Gtz
Northern California
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:12:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: sandragomezmendoza
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Juan Gomez/Maria de Jesus Carrillo
marriage in Jalos
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Hello all,
I need help with this record. Do any of you have the film or the book
where you can look? I would love any more info you can find... Thanks!
**************************
Hola a todos,
Necesito ayuda con este matrimonio. Alguno de ustedes tiene el archivo
o el libro que pueda investigar? Me encantaria saber mas acerca de los
padres. Gracias!
Juan Gomez
Maria De Jesus Carrillo
Nuestra Se?ora De La Asunci?n, Jalostotitl?n, Jalisco, Mexico
27 Jan 1809
Papa de Juan: Francisco Gomez
Mama de Juan: Quiteria Agredano
Papa de Maria: Francisco Carrillo
Mama de Maria: Maria Ximenez
UDE batch number: M60322-9
Film number: 279300
------------------------------
Yes you are right... Amoxochitl as well.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
Yes you are right... Amoxochitl as well.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
Greetings to all. I am learning quite a bit from these postings…general information such as the whys of dispensas and social classifications. Thanks to everyone.
My main area of research is Zacatecas, however, is there anyone doing research in San Luis Potosi who can offer suggestions. Names: Alvarado, Galvan, Rodriguez, Soto, Garcia, Ybarra, Lozano, Mireles. My trail ends with Calistro Alvarado born abt 1763, married to Geronima Mireles .
Hello, Anita,
My interest in SLP is in Rio Verde. I am searching for information on CAYETANO GALVAN and his wife was MARIA TEODORA PEREZ. His son wass GUMESINDO GALVAN, m to MARIA ANACIANA JIMENEZ. Both GUMESINDO AND MARIA ANACIANA were born in SLP. Then all their children were born in TEXAS. I don;t know how GUMESINDO and MARIA ANACIANA crossed into TEXAS, whether thr immigration or "just did" somewhere along the RIO GRANDE. I know this is not for other states, so you can e-mail me.
Thanks
Juanita GALVAN Delgado
--- On Tue, 7/22/08, anna1m wrote:
From: anna1m
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Research in San Luis Potosi
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tuesday, July 22, 2008, 7:37 PM
Greetings to all. I am learning quite a bit from these postings…general
information such as the whys of dispensas and social classifications. Thanks
to everyone.
My main area of research is Zacatecas, however, is there anyone doing research
in San Luis Potosi who can offer suggestions. Names: Alvarado, Galvan,
Rodriguez, Soto, Garcia, Ybarra, Lozano, Mireles. My trail ends with Calistro
Alvarado born abt 1763, married to Geronima Mireles .
Places: Matehuala, La Morita or La Mesita, Piotillo, Rancho de la Viuda,
Encarnacion. And for Lozano, I have a mention of place of birth as Boca de
Caballeros (city of San Luis Potosi) a place I cannot identify.
Any suggestions, leads, or direction as to where I can research will be greatly
appreciated.
Any comments on the Alvarados, where they originated, who came and when, etc.
Thanks - Anita
I too am looking for some Alvarados. I have a Magdaleno Alvarado who was born July 16, 1856 I think in Zacatecas, probably Jerez. He married my paternal grandfather's sister Juana Olague in Jerez.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: anna1m
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 5:37 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Research in San Luis Potosi
Greetings to all. I am learning quite a bit from these postings…general information such as the whys of dispensas and social classifications. Thanks to everyone.
My main area of research is Zacatecas, however, is there anyone doing research in San Luis Potosi who can offer suggestions. Names: Alvarado, Galvan, Rodriguez, Soto, Garcia, Ybarra, Lozano, Mireles. My trail ends with Calistro Alvarado born abt 1763, married to Geronima Mireles .
Places: Matehuala, La Morita or La Mesita, Piotillo, Rancho de la Viuda, Encarnacion. And for Lozano, I have a mention of place of birth as Boca de Caballeros (city of San Luis Potosi) a place I cannot identify.
Any suggestions, leads, or direction as to where I can research will be greatly appreciated.
Any comments on the Alvarados, where they originated, who came and when, etc.
Thanks - Anita
Anita,
I have been researching my family in San Luis Potosi for several years, but
I don't have any of the surnames mentioned in my lists. I'm looking at
Robledo, Montante, Barrueta,Samora, and Colunga.
My trail ends with Jose Maria Robledo deceased and his wife Dolores Colunga
52 years old mentioned on their grandson Eladio Robledo Montante's 1880
Baptism record from San Sebastian church in the city of San Luis Potosi.
Eric Robledo Edgar
On 7/22/08, anna1m wrote:
>
>
> Greetings to all. I am learning quite a bit from these postings…general
> information such as the whys of dispensas and social classifications.
> Thanks to everyone.
>
> My main area of research is Zacatecas, however, is there anyone doing
> research in San Luis Potosi who can offer suggestions. Names: Alvarado,
> Galvan, Rodriguez, Soto, Garcia, Ybarra, Lozano, Mireles. My trail ends
> with Calistro Alvarado born abt 1763, married to Geronima Mireles .
> Places: Matehuala, La Morita or La Mesita, Piotillo, Rancho de la Viuda,
> Encarnacion. And for Lozano, I have a mention of place of birth as Boca de
> Caballeros (city of San Luis Potosi) a place I cannot identify.
> Any suggestions, leads, or direction as to where I can research will be
> greatly appreciated.
> Any comments on the Alvarados, where they originated, who came and when,
> etc.
>
> Thanks - Anita
>
Hi there Anita ,
My name is Welester G. Alvarado I've been searching for the origns of my Alvarados' too ! I have Jose Antonio Candelario Alvarado married to a Maria Concepcion Garcia in Villa de Santiago , Nuevo Leon in the year 1833 and ten years later Candelario marries Maria Quirina Saldivar in Villa de Santiago in the year 1844 ( she's my Great great Grandmother ).
Now , Miguel Angel Borrego Munoz from the Archivos de Coahuila found a Jose Antonio Candelario Alvarado born in Saltillo , Coahuila in the year 1792 .
His parents were Pedro de Alvarado and Maria Pascuala de Luna . The only problem for me is I cannot make the connection from Saltillo to Villa de Santiago , Nuevo Leon .
My understanding is that almost all the early settlers of Coahuila and Nuevo Leon originated in the tri states of Jalisco , Zacatecas and Aguascaliente through the Ruta de Plata . But, since San Luis Pososi is connected to Zacatecas it was real easy for the people from either state to cross over and many did .
The reason I mention this , is that I have found Alvarados' in all four states but have not been able to connect them to me .
We could be related , time and research will tell . If there is any thing I can do to help , just ask .
Take care,
Welester
> > Greetings to all. I am learning quite a bit from these postings…general> > information such as the whys of dispensas and social classifications.> > Thanks to everyone.> >> > My main area of research is Zacatecas, however, is there anyone doing> > research in San Luis Potosi who can offer suggestions. Names: Alvarado,> > Galvan, Rodriguez, Soto, Garcia, Ybarra, Lozano, Mireles. My trail ends> > with Calistro Alvarado born abt 1763, married to Geronima Mireles .> > Places: Matehuala, La Morita or La Mesita, Piotillo, Rancho de la Viuda,> > Encarnacion. And for Lozano, I have a mention of place of birth as Boca de> > Caballeros (city of San Luis Potosi) a place I cannot identify.> > Any suggestions, leads, or direction as to where I can research will be> > greatly appreciated.> > Any comments on the Alvarados, where they originated, who came and when,> > etc.> >
_________________________________________________________________
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Hello, We may still make connections. I know that my Alvarados were from a hacienda somewhere close to Matehuala, SLP and in the early 1900s they traveled toward the US. Some settled in Bustamante and Villaldame NL and others continued to San Antonio Tx and ranches in Bexar County. I know that there are still unrelated Alvarados in NL. Keep checking, we may be surprised. Anita
--- On Wed, 7/23/08, Lester Alvarado wrote:
> From: Lester Alvarado
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Research in San Luis Potosi
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 10:54 AM
> Hi there Anita ,
>
> My name is Welester G. Alvarado I've been searching for
> the origns of my Alvarados' too ! I have Jose Antonio
> Candelario Alvarado married to a Maria Concepcion Garcia in
> Villa de Santiago , Nuevo Leon in the year 1833 and ten
> years later Candelario marries Maria Quirina Saldivar in
> Villa de Santiago in the year 1844 ( she's my Great
> great Grandmother ).
>
> Now , Miguel Angel Borrego Munoz from the Archivos de
> Coahuila found a Jose Antonio Candelario Alvarado born in
> Saltillo , Coahuila in the year 1792 .
>
> His parents were Pedro de Alvarado and Maria Pascuala de
> Luna . The only problem for me is I cannot make the
> connection from Saltillo to Villa de Santiago , Nuevo Leon
> .
>
> My understanding is that almost all the early settlers of
> Coahuila and Nuevo Leon originated in the tri states of
> Jalisco , Zacatecas and Aguascaliente through the Ruta de
> Plata . But, since San Luis Pososi is connected to
> Zacatecas it was real easy for the people from either state
> to cross over and many did .
>
> The reason I mention this , is that I have found
> Alvarados' in all four states but have not been able to
> connect them to me .
>
> We could be related , time and research will tell . If
> there is any thing I can do to help , just ask .
>
> Take care,
> Welester
>
>
>
>
> > > Greetings to all. I am learning quite a bit from
> these postings…general> > information such as the
> whys of dispensas and social classifications.> >
> Thanks to everyone.> >> > My main area of
> research is Zacatecas, however, is there anyone doing>
> > research in San Luis Potosi who can offer suggestions.
> Names: Alvarado,> > Galvan, Rodriguez, Soto, Garcia,
> Ybarra, Lozano, Mireles. My trail ends> > with
> Calistro Alvarado born abt 1763, married to Geronima
> Mireles .> > Places: Matehuala, La Morita or La
> Mesita, Piotillo, Rancho de la Viuda,> > Encarnacion.
> And for Lozano, I have a mention of place of birth as Boca
> de> > Caballeros (city of San Luis Potosi) a place I
> cannot identify.> > Any suggestions, leads, or
> direction as to where I can research will be> >
> greatly appreciated.> > Any comments on the
> Alvarados, where they originated, who came and when,>
> > etc.> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family
> Safety.
> http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_W…
Thanks for your post. Possibly you can help me with research in SLP. Do you know of any websites for general historical research ie where were the records kept for rancho de la viuada, encarnacion, SLP. I do have indications that some of my ancestors lived in SLP. Many questions, where to turn to? Thanks - Anita
--- On Wed, 7/23/08, eric edgar wrote:
> From: eric edgar
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Research in San Luis Potosi
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 12:40 AM
> Anita,
>
> I have been researching my family in San Luis Potosi for
> several years, but
> I don't have any of the surnames mentioned in my lists.
> I'm looking at
> Robledo, Montante, Barrueta,Samora, and Colunga.
>
> My trail ends with Jose Maria Robledo deceased and his wife
> Dolores Colunga
> 52 years old mentioned on their grandson Eladio Robledo
> Montante's 1880
> Baptism record from San Sebastian church in the city of San
> Luis Potosi.
>
> Eric Robledo Edgar
>
>
> On 7/22/08, anna1m wrote:
> >
> >
> > Greetings to all. I am learning quite a bit from
> these postings…general
> > information such as the whys of dispensas and social
> classifications.
> > Thanks to everyone.
> >
> > My main area of research is Zacatecas, however, is
> there anyone doing
> > research in San Luis Potosi who can offer suggestions.
> Names: Alvarado,
> > Galvan, Rodriguez, Soto, Garcia, Ybarra, Lozano,
> Mireles. My trail ends
> > with Calistro Alvarado born abt 1763, married to
> Geronima Mireles .
> > Places: Matehuala, La Morita or La Mesita, Piotillo,
> Rancho de la Viuda,
> > Encarnacion. And for Lozano, I have a mention of
> place of birth as Boca de
> > Caballeros (city of San Luis Potosi) a place I cannot
> identify.
> > Any suggestions, leads, or direction as to where I can
> research will be
> > greatly appreciated.
> > Any comments on the Alvarados, where they originated,
> who came and when,
> > etc.
> >
> > Thanks - Anita
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
Wow... these seem to be an inventory of some sort, no? If only we knew where these were.
It is very unusual to find information on Juchipila and Moyahua for 1700-1800... at least I've had a very hard time.
I think we've been overlookiing the fact that the Santuario Santiago Apostol in Moyahua was established in 1814...which is why older records do not exist there. We'll have to look at Juchipila records for anything before that date.
http://www.oficinaparroquial.com/directorio/parroquias_guadalajara.html
Claudia Reynoso
Hello all,
I need help with this record. Do any of you have the film or the book where you can look? I would love any more info you can find... Thanks!
**************************
Hola a todos,
Hi Everyone,
I've been a member of Nuestros Ranchos for some months now & enjoy reading all the tips & tricks & new ideas I see here. (Due to school responsibilities, I have no had much time for research.) But none of them have enabled me to find out more about my paternal gg grandparents, D. Simon & Da. Micaela Torres (de) Quinteros. So now I'm asking for your help. Simon was born in Mexico in 1852. His father may be Mario/Mariano Quinteros-not sure on the mother who may or may not be a Rosales. Simon married Micaela Torres who was born in Mexico in 1849. She was the daughter of Rafael Torres-again not sure about the mother. They were married in the chapel of Hacienda del Fuerte by a priest of the parish in Sta. Elena in Rio Grande, Zacatecas, Mexico on 24 June 1874. They had atleast two sons, Simon who I know nothing about, & Rafael who was born in Rio Grande in 1878 & later became my g grandfather. Rafael Quinteros md Domitila Mendez who I
Hi Everyone,
I've been a member of Nuestros Ranchos for some months now & enjoy reading all the tips & tricks & new ideas I see here. (Due to school responsibilities, I have no had much time for research.) But none of them have enabled me to find out more about my paternal gg grandparents, D. Simon & Da. Micaela Torres (de) Quinteros. So now I'm asking for your help. Simon was born in Mexico in 1852. His father may be Mario/Mariano Quinteros-not sure on the mother who may or may not be a Rosales. Simon married Micaela Torres who was born in Mexico in 1849. She was the daughter of Rafael Torres-again not sure about the mother. They were married in the chapel of Hacienda del Fuerte by a priest of the parish in Sta. Elena in Rio Grande, Zacatecas, Mexico on 24 June 1874. They had atleast two sons, Simon who I know nothing about, & Rafael who was born in Rio Grande in 1878 & later became my g grandfather. Rafael Quinteros md Domitila Mendez who I
was told was born in Fresnillo in 1882-3 & was the daughter of Andres Mendez & Dionisia Arellano who I now believe may actually be an Alvarado & from Jerez instead. Rafael & Domitila moved their family to TX in 1922 & their youngest son was my grandfather. Unfortunately, our family is not close, many of the old are dying off & during the course of researching my father's line, I have found lots of misinformation that is supposed to be family "gospel".
I need help locating/tracing further back Simon, Domitila's & Micaela's families. My father said he believed the Quinteros family (who may or may not have an s on the end of the surname the further back you go) may have had some connections in Saltillo, NL. The only reference I am able to find of Simon & Micaela is their marriage record (source ref M604910 LDS Films from Salt Lake FHL) which was nearly impossible for me to decipher with any accuracy. (water damage?, terrible handwriting) I had been told our family on the paternal side was of Aztec/Spanish origins but until I found the marriage record, I was unaware that we were also landowners. The parish they married in is still in existence & I understand the hacienda del fuerte is also still around, albeit in ruins. I've tried contacting the priests in that area with no response from them-maybe because of the recent papal ban on release of records due to actions of the LDS church in
baptizing deceased members of the catholic faith.
Maybe some of you who have access to this record may have better luck finding something I overlooked. I am somewhat bilingual but not to any great extent other than enough conversational spanish to get by with & I do not have much experience in researching Mexican ancestry. It's one thing trying to decipher poor handwriting in English, but poorly written Spanish when you're not much of a native Spanish speaker is another. I could make out the words viuda (is this referring to a previous marriage of the bride?) & the word for god parents & parents but could not decipher the names. Can anyone out there help me?
Thanks in advance for all/any help you can give me!
Julia D. Quinteros de Hernandez
Dallas, TX
Hi Everyone,
I've been a member of Nuestros Ranchos for some months now & enjoy reading all the tips & tricks & new ideas I see here. (Due to school responsibilities, I have no had much time for research.) But none of them have enabled me to find out more about my paternal gg grandparents, D. Simon & Da. Micaela Torres (de) Quinteros. So now I'm asking for your help. Simon was born in Mexico in 1852. His father may be Mario/Mariano Quinteros-not sure on the mother who may or may not be a Rosales. Simon married Micaela Torres who was born in Mexico in 1849. She was the daughter of Rafael Torres-again not sure about the mother. They were married in the chapel of Hacienda del Fuerte by a priest of the parish in Sta. Elena in Rio Grande, Zacatecas, Mexico on 24 June 1874. They had atleast two sons, Simon who I know nothing about, & Rafael who was born in Rio Grande in 1878 & later became my g grandfather. Rafael Quinteros md Domitila Mendez who I
was told was born in Fresnillo in 1882-3 & was the daughter of Andres Mendez & Dionisia Arellano who I now believe may actually be an Alvarado & from Jerez instead. Rafael & Domitila moved their family to TX in 1922 & their youngest son was my grandfather. Unfortunately, our family is not close, many of the old are dying off & during the course of researching my father's line, I have found lots of misinformation that is supposed to be family "gospel".
I need help locating/tracing further back Simon, Domitila's & Micaela's families. My father said he believed the Quinteros family (who may or may not have an s on the end of the surname the further back you go) may have had some connections in Saltillo, NL. The only reference I am able to find of Simon & Micaela is their marriage record (source ref M604910 LDS Films from Salt Lake FHL) which was nearly impossible for me to decipher with any accuracy. (water damage?, terrible handwriting) I had been told our family on the paternal side was of Aztec/Spanish origins but until I found the marriage record, I was unaware that we were also landowners. The parish they married in is still in existence & I understand the hacienda del fuerte is also still around, albeit in ruins. I've tried contacting the priests in that area with no response from them-maybe because of the recent papal ban on release of records due to actions of the LDS church in
baptizing deceased members of the catholic faith.
Maybe some of you who have access to this record may have better luck finding something I overlooked. I am somewhat bilingual but not to any great extent other than enough conversational spanish to get by with & I do not have much experience in researching Mexican ancestry. It's one thing trying to decipher poor handwriting in English, but poorly written Spanish when you're not much of a native Spanish speaker is another. I could make out the words viuda (is this referring to a previous marriage of the bride?) & the word for god parents & parents but could not decipher the names. Can anyone out there help me?
Thanks in advance for all/any help you can give me!
Julia D. Quinteros de Hernandez
Dallas, TX
Saltillo is in the state of Coahuila, not Nuevo Leon. Not all microfilm for Saltillo has been indexed in the IGI. There are Portions of films are missing from the IGI. If I can be of help reply to me privately.
--
Esther A. Herold
-------------- Original message from Christopher Hernandez : --------------
> Hi Everyone,
> I've been a member of Nuestros Ranchos for some months now & enjoy reading all the tips & tricks & new ideas I see here. (Due to school responsibilities, I have no had much time for research.) But none of them have enabled me to find out more about my paternal gg grandparents, D. Simon & Da. Micaela Torres (de) Quinteros. So now I'm asking for your help. Simon was born in Mexico in 1852. His father may be Mario/Mariano Quinteros-not sure on the mother who may or may not be a Rosales. Simon married Micaela Torres who was born in Mexico in 1849. She was the daughter of Rafael Torres-again not sure about the mother. They were married in the chapel of Hacienda del Fuerte by a priest of the parish in Sta. Elena in Rio Grande, Zacatecas, Mexico on 24 June 1874. They had atleast two sons, Simon who I know nothing about, & Rafael who was born in Rio Grande in
> 1878 & later became my g grandfather. Rafael Quinteros md Domitila Mendez who I
> was told was born in Fresnillo in 1882-3 & was the daughter of Andres Mendez &
> Dionisia Arellano who I now believe may actually be an Alvarado & from Jerez
> instead. Rafael & Domitila moved their family to TX in 1922 & their youngest
> son was my grandfather. Unfortunately, our family is not close, many of the old
> are dying off & during the course of researching my father's line, I have found
> lots of misinformation that is supposed to be family "gospel".
>
> I need help locating/tracing further back Simon, Domitila's & Micaela's
> families. My father said he believed the Quinteros family (who may or may not
> have an s on the end of the surname the further back you go) may have had some
> connections in Saltillo, NL. The only reference I am able to find of Simon &
> Micaela is their marriage record (source ref M604910 LDS Films from Salt Lake
> FHL) which was nearly impossible for me to decipher with any accuracy. (water
> damage?, terrible handwriting) I had been told our family on the paternal side
> was of Aztec/Spanish origins but until I found the marriage record, I was
> unaware that we were also landowners. The parish they married in is still in
> existence & I understand the hacienda del fuerte is also still around, albeit in
> ruins. I've tried contacting the priests in that area with no response from
> them-maybe because of the recent papal ban on release of records due to actions
> of the LDS church in
> baptizing deceased members of the catholic faith.
>
> Maybe some of you who have access to this record may have better luck finding
> something I overlooked. I am somewhat bilingual but not to any great extent
> other than enough conversational spanish to get by with & I do not have much
> experience in researching Mexican ancestry. It's one thing trying to decipher
> poor handwriting in English, but poorly written Spanish when you're not much of
> a native Spanish speaker is another. I could make out the words viuda (is this
> referring to a previous marriage of the bride?) & the word for god parents &
> parents but could not decipher the names. Can anyone out there help me?
>
> Thanks in advance for all/any help you can give me!
>
> Julia D. Quinteros de Hernandez
> Dallas, TX
>
>
>
>
>
>
I have Simon Quinteros married Micaela Torres on 24 JUN 1874 Santa Elena, Rio Grande, Zacatecas, Mexico
.
This information was in the IGI , THe microfilm # was 0604910 . The batch # for the film is M601141
There are many Quinteros in Coahuila. There are also Quinteros in Nuevo Leon.
--
Esther A. Herold
-------------- Original message from Christopher Hernandez : --------------
> Hi Everyone,
> I've been a member of Nuestros Ranchos for some months now & enjoy reading all the tips & tricks & new ideas I see here. (Due to school responsibilities, I have no had much time for research.) But none of them have enabled me to find out more about my paternal gg grandparents, D. Simon & Da. Micaela Torres (de) Quinteros. So now I'm asking for your help. Simon was born in Mexico in 1852. His father may be Mario/Mariano Quinteros-not sure on the mother who may or may not be a Rosales. Simon married Micaela Torres who was born in Mexico in 1849. She was the daughter of Rafael Torres-again not sure about the mother. They were married in the chapel of Hacienda del Fuerte by a priest of the parish in Sta. Elena in Rio Grande, Zacatecas, Mexico on 24 June 1874. They had atleast two sons, Simon who I know nothing about, & Rafael who was born in Rio Grande in
> 1878 & later became my g grandfather. Rafael Quinteros md Domitila Mendez who I
> was told was born in Fresnillo in 1882-3 & was the daughter of Andres Mendez &
> Dionisia Arellano who I now believe may actually be an Alvarado & from Jerez
> instead. Rafael & Domitila moved their family to TX in 1922 & their youngest
> son was my grandfather. Unfortunately, our family is not close, many of the old
> are dying off & during the course of researching my father's line, I have found
> lots of misinformation that is supposed to be family "gospel".
>
> I need help locating/tracing further back Simon, Domitila's & Micaela's
> families. My father said he believed the Quinteros family (who may or may not
> have an s on the end of the surname the further back you go) may have had some
> connections in Saltillo, NL. The only reference I am able to find of Simon &
> Micaela is their marriage record (source ref M604910 LDS Films from Salt Lake
> FHL) which was nearly impossible for me to decipher with any accuracy. (water
> damage?, terrible handwriting) I had been told our family on the paternal side
> was of Aztec/Spanish origins but until I found the marriage record, I was
> unaware that we were also landowners. The parish they married in is still in
> existence & I understand the hacienda del fuerte is also still around, albeit in
> ruins. I've tried contacting the priests in that area with no response from
> them-maybe because of the recent papal ban on release of records due to actions
> of the LDS church in
> baptizing deceased members of the catholic faith.
>
> Maybe some of you who have access to this record may have better luck finding
> something I overlooked. I am somewhat bilingual but not to any great extent
> other than enough conversational spanish to get by with & I do not have much
> experience in researching Mexican ancestry. It's one thing trying to decipher
> poor handwriting in English, but poorly written Spanish when you're not much of
> a native Spanish speaker is another. I could make out the words viuda (is this
> referring to a previous marriage of the bride?) & the word for god parents &
> parents but could not decipher the names. Can anyone out there help me?
>
> Thanks in advance for all/any help you can give me!
>
> Julia D. Quinteros de Hernandez
> Dallas, TX
>
>
>
>
>
>
Hello all, I am currently awaiting some film from the Family History Center regarding the marriage of a Joseph Manuel Dias to a Maria Anna Peres in Tepatitlan De Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico. I have been able to determine that they were both married on June 25, 1752 (Batch #M603726, Source Call #0218517) I'm hoping the actual film will show who the parents are.
Thursday, July 24, 2008
Dear Reye Diaz--
There are good lookups and bad look ups and this one
turned out well. I ask that you continue to look at
all the information yourself to determine what fits
and what does not. I say that because these are the
people on your lines and you are the most qualified to
know what is correct.
Of interest to me, was a Joseph DIAS, mestizo that
married a Eufracia Franca de CASTANEDA, mulata
esclava, that I looked at first. It was next to the
one you asked about. I mention this because in doing
research it is good to look at other people and not
just cut and paste, so to speak. In this example, I
did not find padrinos which was a surprise but there
were three witnesses to the marriage. I only had a
short time so did not look at other marriages on this
film.
For you, this is what I saw and took note of:
June 25, 1752 in Tepatitlan de Morelos...Joseph Manuel
DIAS, esp., org. y vecino de esta fel. en la
congregacion de la Villa, hijo leg. de Pedro DIAS y de
Juana de ARANBURO wed Maria Anna PERES, esp. de puesto
de la Sebadilla, hija leg. de Mathias PERES and Luisa
Franca PADILLA, both of whom were dead. No padrinos
were listed but I did see these names with the
notation in Spanish "Selebracion de este matrimonio al
que fallaron precentes...Nicolas de CARDENAS, Baltasar
HERNANDES, Leonardo BERCIDE? (My Spanish is not the
best and so the translation might be a bit off.)
If this were my line, I would look at it numerous
times to make sure I understood what was being said.
You asked for the parents' names and that is what I
concentrated on. I was not able to find anything more
on the bride or her parents but I said I wanted to
look at some of my other sources and this is
additional information for the groom that you might be
able to connect to your DIAZ line.
Pedro DIAS m. Juana de ARAMBURU on 10 Feb 1728 in
Tepatitlan. See Microfilm 218,516.
Some of their children seem to have been Petra
Magdalena DIAS bap. on 20 Oct 1737, Deonicio DIAS bap.
in 1744, and Rita Gertrudis DIAS bap. Jul 1743. These
children were all bap. in Atotonilco el Alto and the
information can be found on Microfilm #222,109. I had
trouble getting the complete dates for some of the
children but if you research this yourself using the
IGI, you can get it.
>From my own records I would like to tell you of
another family. Bernardino ARAMBURO married in about
1746 to Juana Manuela DIAS. I do not no where the
marriage took place. They had the first of their
children, Juan Joseph ARAMBURO on 5 Nov 1746 in
Soledad, Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco. I have
concluded through the years that it seemed that
certain families started with a marriage in Tepatitlan
and then seemed to settle in the Atotonilco el Alto
area to have their children.
I saw a record for Maria Rafaela ARAMBURO who married
Miguel GARCIA on 15 May 1747 in Tepatitlan. You might
want to check that when you have the opportunity.
These names...of DIAS and ARAMBURO, are very similar
to one another and I believe they are all related.
Here is yet another record that you might want to
check...
Parents Pedro CASTELLANOS and Juana de ARAMBURO had a
son Manuel CASTELLANOS bap 15 Oct 1730 in Atotonilco
el Alto. Personally, I think this might be the Joseph
Manuel DIAS that you were inquiring about.
Please keep me updated as I find this all very
interesting. For the time being, I will not be able
to continue helping because I have knee surgery
scheduled for Monday but it was lots of fun to help
with this part.
Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
San Diego, Ca.
PS. One more entry which you might already know
about:
Joseph Manuel DIAZ and Mariana PEREZ had Maria
Gertrudis DIAZ on 26 Jul 1766 in Tepatitlan de
Morelos. See Microfilm #218,442.
--- reye611 wrote:
>
> Hello all, I am currently awaiting some film from
> the Family History Center regarding the marriage of
> a Joseph Manuel Dias to a Maria Anna Peres in
> Tepatitlan De Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico. I have been
> able to determine that they were both married on
> June 25, 1752 (Batch #M603726, Source Call
> #0218517) I'm hoping the actual film will show who
> the parents are. While I'm waiting for the film, I
> thought I would just throw this event out there to
> see if anyone just happens to have any information
> on the parents of Joseph Manuel Dias and/or Maria
> Anna Peres. I'm assuming their DOB's will be
> sometime around 1730. Any help would be
> appreciated.
This is great Reye! This new Pedro should be a son of Pedro Senior or someother real close relation even possible grandson. Thanks to Patricia youre real close to connect to the trunk!
At least you know he was a spaniard so it is the same family for sure. Sometimes they'd give their last names to the slaves or even "indígenas", in order to honor their "master". (I really don't like the usage of that term) :(. That Francisca de PAdilla might likely be of the Padilla Dávila spanish family. (Since their from Tepatitlán. I find as soon as you open a door, many open to discover about your ancestry. -Daniel
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Hello Patricia. I just got home from work and had the nice surprise of your research. First of all, I greatly appreciate your work, you went above and beyond and I'm very grateful. As I just read your notes, I haven't had the opportunity to digest your research. However, it appears Joseph Manuel DIAS' parents were two people I wasn't aware of. Daniel initially thought there was a strong possibility that his parents were another Joseph Dias and that his grandfather was a Pedro Dias born around 1660, both in the Dias Castellano line. I just read Daniel's comments about your findings and he believes the "new Pedro" you have found might have been another son of the Pedro Dias born around 1660 and/or a close relative. Nevertheless, I now have something more to work with and will keep you updated as I get into it. Also, in regards to your upcoming surgery, you will be in my prayers. Once again, thank you.
Reye
patricia burton wrote:
Wednesday, July 23, 2008
Dear Reye Diaz--
I did find something for you and will report it
tomorrow. I want to see if I have anything else to go
with it in my other records.
Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
--- Reye Diaz wrote:
> Let me know if you are able to find anything on your
> trip to the history center. I appreciate your help.
>
> Reye
>
> patricia burton wrote:
> Dear Reye Diaz--
>
> I will take your information with me on Wednesday
> and
> see what I can find out for you.
>
> This does not seem to be what you are looking for
> but
> here is what I have listed in some old records:
>
> Joseph DIAZ CASTELLANOS was born about 1689 in
> Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco and
>
> Married Juana Geronima GOMEZ DE ESPEJO daughter of
> Felix GOMEZ DE ESPEJO and Gertrudis DE ZARATE.
>
> One of their children was Antonia DIAS who married
> Miguel ANGULO in about 1746, somewhere in Mexico.
>
> Further down in the line, Maria Josefa ANGULO,
> baptized 26 Oct 1790 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco,
> daughter of Jose Manuel ANGULO, (son of Don Miguel
> ANGULO and Dona Antonia DIAS) and Maria Antonia
> NAVARRO, (daughter of Antonio Ygnacio NAVARRO and
> Ana
> Sesilia VELASCO).
>
> Maria Josefa ANGULO married Jose Thomas Nepomuceno
> AZEVES baptized 13 Jan 1788 in Tepatitlan de
> Moreolos.
> He was the son of Juan Lucas AZEVES (son of Antonio
> de AZEVES and Feliciana de LOSA) and Juana Maria
> ANGULO born 15 Jul 1759 in Soledad, Atotonilco el
> Alto
> (daughter of Don Miguel ANGULO and Dona Antonia
> DIAS,
> daughter--of the above mentioned Joseph DIAZ
> CASTELLANOS and Juana Geronima GOMEZ DE ESPEJO).
>
> Not sure if you can follow what I have typed but
> there
> do seem to be some similarities. In the different
> family lines I have mentioned, they appear to have
> come from Atotonilco el Alto (Soledad), Tepatitlan
> de
> Morelos (Buey),(Carnisero),(Ojo de Agua de Aceves),
> and Ocotlan and other places.
>
> Best of luck in your search and I hopefully I will
> be
> able to respond with more info after I have been to
> the FHC.
>
> Sincerely,
> Patricia Burton
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Reye Diaz wrote:
>
> > Hello Patricia, in regards to Joseph Manuel Dias,
> > Daniel was responding to my original query in
> which
> > I was advising the Nuestro community that I'm
> > currently awaiting film from the Family History
> > Center regarding the marriage of a Joseph Manuel
> > Dias to a Maria Anna
> > Peres in Tepatitlan De Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico. I
> > have been able to
> > determine that they were both married on June 25,
> > 1752 (Batch #M603726,
> > Source Call #0218517) and am hoping the actual
> film
> > will show who the
> > parents are. While I'm waiting, I threw this event
> > out there in case anyone already had this
> > information as to who Jospeh Manuel Dias' parents
> > were. As a result of this original query, Daniel
> > was kind enough to let me know that there is a
> > strong possibility that this Dias line comes from
> > one of three lines, including the Diaz Castellano
> > line. After telling me this, I looked into what I
> > currently have already and was able to determine
> > that Joseph's grandson Juan Jose Diaz is listed as
> > Juan Jose Diaz Castellano and was married to a
> > Cresencia Gomez in 1811. This same record shows
> > that Juan Jose Diaz Castellano's father, who is
> the
> > son of Joseph Manuel Dias, is a Nicolas Diaz
> > Castellano (Married to a Teresa De Asebes in
> 1788).
> > I then asked Daniel if this means the Joseph
> Manuel
> > Dias I was asking about is part of the Diaz
> > Castellano line Daniel was referring to. As you
> > know, Daniel responded by telling me yes, that
> > Jospeh Manuel Diaz should be the son of a Joseph
> > Diaz
> > born in 1687 and that the film I'm awaiting should
> > show everything. As you can imagine, I'm very
> > excited right now. However, if you have access to
> > the film now and look at it, any help would be
> > greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.
> >
> > Reye Diaz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > patricia burton wrote:
> > Saturday, July 19, 2008
> >
> > Dear Daniel--
> >
> > Could you please send the rest of the information
> on
> > this person since you have it. I, too, have the
> film
> > #222,109 on indefinite loan but I am not at the
> > Family
> > History Center until Wednesday.
> >
> > Is there a wife and children for Joseph Manuel
> Dias?
> >
> > Are there other siblings for him? Who are his
> > parents? Exactly where was Joseph Manuel Dias
> born,
> > in Atotonilco el Alto, or one of the surrounding
> > ranchos? Is the date of birth the same as the
> > baptismal date? Who were the godparents?
> >
> > Thanking you in advance.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Patricia Burton
> > San Diego
> >
> >
> > --- Daniel Mendez wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I have this but you should wait for the film!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > JOSEPH MANUEL DIAS
> > > Pedigree
> > >
> > >
> > > Male
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Event(s):
> > >
> > >
> > > Birth:
> > >
> > >
> > > Christening:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 30 MAY 1731
> > > Atotonilco El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
> > >
> > >
> > > Death:
> > >
> > >
> > > Burial:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
=== message truncated ===
It is exciting. It was very nice of Patricia to do that for me. I just ordered the marriage film on the new Pedro Dias today. It will be interesting to see if he is a son or not of the original Pedro Dias we discussed.
Daniel Mendez wrote:
This is great Reye! This new Pedro should be a son of Pedro Senior or someother real close relation even possible grandson. Thanks to Patricia youre real close to connect to the trunk!
At least you know he was a spaniard so it is the same family for sure. Sometimes they'd give their last names to the slaves or even "indígenas", in order to honor their "master". (I really don't like the usage of that term) :(. That Francisca de PAdilla might likely be of the Padilla Dávila spanish family. (Since their from Tepatitlán. I find as soon as you open a door, many open to discover about your ancestry. -Daniel
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Friday, July 25, 2008
Dear Daniel--
Here are the results from the lookup request:
First of all, the Film #218,445 is a difficult film to
get information from quickly. It must be studied and
viewed thru a lense that has high magnification.
There are many baptisms listed on each page, maybe 9
or more, and the writing is very small. I do not
think grandparents are listed. There are many years
covered in this microfilm-- 1785-1803. The first part
is as I spoke of before.
The second part is more spread out but there are
manchas (dark spots) and it is very hard to read. The
second part which does tend to start over for some of
the years until it goes to 1803 seemed to me to show
the place of Cerro Gordo. I could not find your
Antonio ACEVES baptised 10 Aug 1802 in the place where
I though it should be. Perhaps when you get the film,
you will have better luck.
Film #218,516, which covers the years of 1686-1735,
was better but I did not always see parents for the
couples who were marrying, just witesses.
Sebastian BELASQUEZ de LARA, who married on 6 Jun 1715
in Sn., Franco., was an espanol. He wed Rosa Maria
QUESADA an espanol, vecina de este. I had difficulty
with her name. I would have called it something else
but. In doing more research, I would look at her
name, as the mother of her children, in other
documents to see what I ultimately might decide it
was. Since I am not familiar with the family I can
not give a good call on the bride's name.
I would like to say this, one fellow listed on the IGI
as Jose Samuel ANGULO born 1757 in Atotonilco el Alto
was actually Jose Manuel ANGULO born 1757. The
helpful part was the place name of Soledad, Atotonilco
el Alto. That was more information than I could get
from the IGI and that is where others of the ANGULO
name could be found. I had never seen the name Samuel
in my research so I was suspicious that it might not
be correct The IGI does have some mistakes but it
still is better than nothing.
The ANGULO name I was reseaching ended for me with the
father who was Don Miguel ANGULO but the mother was
Dona Antonia DIAS who was the daughter of Joseph DIAZ
CASTELLANOS of Atotonilco el Alto born about 1689 and
Juana Geronima GOMEZ de ESPEJO of Ocotlan, born about
1699. Just recently, the name of DIAS was being
researched and so with help from one another, we might
all get new information.
The second marriage on 14 May 1732, in Tepatitlan de
Morelos, is this the same Sebastian BELASQUEZ? who is
listed as the son of Francisco BELASQUEZ and Dona
Maria de ROJAS, both dead. The bride was Juana
QUINTERO, esp, of Mariche and Laborvieja, daughter of
Juan de Dios QUINTERO and Mariana de P...? maybe
PETROSA?
I know that Mariche is a place in the Atotonilco el
Alto area but it might also be a place in Tepatitlan
de Morelos. I would myself, like to look at these two
entries again to see what more I could find out and if
I had everything correct as I have written. I am now
wondering if maybe the groom was from Mariche and the
bride alone from Laborvieja. Just goes to show it is
best not to rush...
Good results for Joseph RUBIO, esp., vecino since a
small child in the obp. de Michoacan. He married on 2
Feb 1704 in Tepatitlan de Morelos to Nicolasa CORTES,
who was from este pueblo. Her parents were Anttonio
CORTES and Margarita GOMEZ de ESPEJO. As for Joseph,
his parents, who were both dea,d were listed as
Nicolas RUBIO snd Dona THA? de LIEBANO.
Here is what I have in my own records and it might be
what you need:
A Joseph RUBIO baptised 1 May 1682 in Ayo el Chico was
the son of Nicolas RUBIO born about 1645 in Mexico and
married about 1670 to Dona Catalina LIEBANO who was
born about 1652 in Mexico and died 2 Dec 1689 in Ayo
el Chico.
Catalina's father was Juan ASEWNCIO de LEON born about
1614 in Mexico and married about 1637 in Michoacan,
Mexico. Her mother was Geronima de LIEBANA born about
1621 in Mexico.
Parents to Geronima were Alvaro MACIEL and Isabel de
OROSCO. For the parents of Isabel, I have Juan de
ZAMORA and Dona Ysabel del CASTILLO (OROZCO).
The OROZCOS are a favorite of mine because they are
easily identified as part of my husband's line on his
mother's side. Thus the parents of Ysabel were
Geronimo de OROZCO born about 1553 in Guadalajara,
Nueva Galacia (Jalisco) and married about 1577 to
Ysabel del CASTILLO.
Geronimo's father was Doctor Jeronimo de OROSCO
(Judge) born about 1520 in Sevilla, Espana, married
about 1550 in Espana and died Nov 1592 in Guadalajara,
Nueva Galacia (Jalisco). His mother was Beatriz TELLO
DE LOMAS born about 1530 in Espana.
I have seen how in some cases the name for the
descendants might be TELLO de OROSCO, OROSCO de TELLO,
OROSCO or TELLO. This information comes from numerous
sources and is not mine alone. Although I have not
worked on this line in some time (doing my own in
Canada instead) it is still of interest to me.
Hope this has been helpful.
Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
San Diego, Ca.
--- Daniel Mendez wrote:
>
> Hi Patricia, I was wondering if you coulld look this
> up for me when you go on Wednesaday if at all
> possible, you've helped me alot! (I wait so long for
> films!, I figure gaining some new info will help me
> keep going! If you ever need anything or information
> don't hesitate to ask me! In about a couple of
> months my database will include all the Early
> Aguasfamilies, All Los Altos families and all
> Nochistlan families, mostly the Spanish families of
> the new world. -Daniel
>
>
> Film #218445
> Antonio Aceves 10 Aug 1802, (Just need to know if
> his grandparents are listed? Have no clue who they
> are! (And birthdate)
>
> Film #218516
> Sevastian Velazquez or Lara
> Rosa Maria Quezada
> 6 Jun 1715
>
> Same film as previous
> (I think this is the same person as above!)
> Sevastian Velasquez Lara or Lopez
> Juana Quintero
> 14 May 1732
>
> Same film as previous
> Joseph Rubio
> Nicolasa Cortes or Espejo
> 2 Feb 1704
>
>
>
>
>
>
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I'm always amazed how our ancestors keep showing up in other places! I have Maciel/Leivano ancestors in Michoacan and have Alvaro Maciel and Ysabel Orosco in my records posted on Rootsweb.com.. The problem is when I merged my programs from a laptop than went haywire I ended up with deleted records, merged records that were in error and in Alvaro Maciel's case, he and some of his children are there with absolutely no references or reason for being there. I do think they are connected through my Alvarez del Castillo and Gutierrez families and my record shows the Maciel family from Tangancicuaro Michoacan who's records appear in the Chilchota Michoacan records. I do not have Geromina so find your information really interesting. I did not realize the records error in my files until I saw this message, I do thank you. I did not have parents for Ysabel Orosco.Linda Castanon-Long in B.C.
Catalina's father was Juan ASEWNCIO de LEON born about
1614 in Mexico and married about 1637 in Michoacan,
Mexico. Her mother was Geronima de LIEBANA born about
1621 in Mexico.
Parents to Geronima were Alvaro MACIEL and Isabel de
OROSCO. For the parents of Isabel, I have Juan de
ZAMORA and Dona Ysabel del CASTILLO (OROZCO).
The OROZCOS are a favorite of mine because they are
easily identified as part of my husband's line on his
mother's side. Thus the parents of Ysabel were
Geronimo de OROZCO born about 1553 in Guadalajara,
Nueva Galacia (Jalisco) and married about 1577 to
Ysabel del CASTILLO.
Geronimo's father was Doctor Jeronimo de OROSCO
(Judge) born about 1520 in Sevilla, Espana, married
about 1550 in Espana and died Nov 1592 in Guadalajara,
Nueva Galacia (Jalisco). His mother was Beatriz TELLO
DE LOMAS born about 1530 in Espana.
I have seen how in some cases the name for the
descendants might be TELLO de OROSCO, OROSCO de TELLO,
OROSCO or TELLO. This information comes from numerous
sources and is not mine alone. Although I have not
worked on this line in some time (doing my own in
Canada instead) it is still of interest to me.
Hope this has been helpful.
Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
San Diego, Ca.
--- Daniel Mendez wrote:
>
> Hi Patricia, I was wondering if you coulld look this
> up for me when you go on Wednesaday if at all
> possible, you've helped me alot! (I wait so long for
> films!, I figure gaining some new info will help me
> keep going! If you ever need anything or information
> don't hesitate to ask me! In about a couple of
> months my database will include all the Early
> Aguasfamilies, All Los Altos families and all
> Nochistlan families, mostly the Spanish families of
> the new world. -Daniel
>
>
> Film #218445
> Antonio Aceves 10 Aug 1802, (Just need to know if
> his grandparents are listed? Have no clue who they
> are! (And birthdate)
>
> Film #218516
> Sevastian Velazquez or Lara
> Rosa Maria Quezada
> 6 Jun 1715
>
> Same film as previous
> (I think this is the same person as above!)
> Sevastian Velasquez Lara or Lopez
> Juana Quintero
> 14 May 1732
>
> Same film as previous
> Joseph Rubio
> Nicolasa Cortes or Espejo
> 2 Feb 1704
>
>
>
>
>
>
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I have these records from Chilchota you may be interested in if you don't have them. they were taken from 0640965 Chilchota Michoacan baptism, if you would like me to send you an attachement of the film as I copied it I would be happy to do so since there may be other surnames you are interested in that I could not connect to.
Baptism: 5 May 1621 in ChilchotaFrancisca EspanolaParents: Juan de Camora and Ysabel del CastilloPad: El Padre Alonso de Berdusco en este xu de Etucuaro Baptism: 17 June 1642 in ChilchotaPEDRO ACENCIO LUBANA EspanolParents: JUAN ACENCIO DE LEON and Dona GERONIMA DE LUBANA Pad: Gregorio Bejar and Dona Maria de Lievana his wife from Tanganziquaro Baptism: 16 July 1640 in ChilchotaANNA ASENSIO LIEBANA EspanolaParents: Juan Asensio (Ponze) de Leon and Dona Jeronima de LiebanaPad: Antonio Rodrigues from Jacona and Dona Maria de Lievana daughter of Gregorio de Bejar and Dona Maria de Lievana from Tanganziquaro
Baptism: 28 May 1647 in Chilchota Jph Alvares EspanolParents: Jph Alvares del Castillo and Maria Dona Maciel (Castrejon)Pad: Juan Maciel son of Alvaro Maciel and Ysabel Orosco from Valle of Tanganziquaro
Baptism: 16 Dec 1649 in Chilchota (entered)YSABEL RODRIGUEZ OROSCO EspanolaParents: Geronimo Rodriguez (Morfin) and Ysabel de OroscoPad: Diego de la Mora and Dona Maria de Orosco daughter of Alvaro Maciel and Ysabel de Orosco from Valle de Tanganziquaro
====================
Catalina's father was Juan ASEWNCIO de LEON born about
1614 in Mexico and married about 1637 in Michoacan,
Mexico. Her mother was Geronima de LIEBANA born about1621 in Mexico.
Parents to Geronima were Alvaro MACIEL and Isabel de
OROSCO. For the parents of Isabel, I have Juan de
ZAMORA and Dona Ysabel del CASTILLO (OROZCO).
The OROZCOS are a favorite of mine because they are
easily identified as part of my husband's line on his
mother's side. Thus the parents of Ysabel were
Geronimo de OROZCO born about 1553 in Guadalajara,
Nueva Galacia (Jalisco) and married about 1577 toYsabel del CASTILLO.
Geronimo's father was Doctor Jeronimo de OROSCO
(Judge) born about 1520 in Sevilla, Espana, married
about 1550 in Espana and died Nov 1592 in Guadalajara,
Nueva Galacia (Jalisco). His mother was Beatriz TELLO
DE LOMAS born about 1530 in Espana.
I have seen how in some cases the name for the
descendants might be TELLO de OROSCO, OROSCO de TELLO,
OROSCO or TELLO. This information comes from numerous
sources and is not mine alone. Although I have not
worked on this line in some time (doing my own in
Canada instead) it is still of interest to me.Hope this has been helpful.
Sincerely,Patricia BurtonSan Diego, Ca.
--- Daniel Mendez wrote:>
> Hi Patricia, I was wondering if you coulld look this
> up for me when you go on Wednesaday if at all
> possible, you've helped me alot! (I wait so long for
> films!, I figure gaining some new info will help me
> keep going! If you ever need anything or information
> don't hesitate to ask me! In about a couple of
> months my database will include all the Early
> Aguasfamilies, All Los Altos families and all
> Nochistlan families, mostly the Spanish families of
> the new world. -Daniel > > > Film #218445
> Antonio Aceves 10 Aug 1802, (Just need to know if
> his grandparents are listed? Have no clue who they> are! (And birthdate)
> > Film #218516> Sevastian Velazquez or Lara > Rosa Maria Quezada
> 6 Jun 1715> > Same film as previous
> (I think this is the same person as above!)
> Sevastian Velasquez Lara or Lopez> Juana Quintero> 14 May 1732>
> Same film as previous> Joseph Rubio> Nicolasa Cortes or Espejo
> 2 Feb 1704> > > > > >
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Just to give you some hope. I had previously ordered the baptismal records from Tepa 1870 to 1872. They listed both maternal and paternal grandparents, so you may be in luck, it looks as if Tepatitlan during that time was keeping meticulous records. Good luck. Would you mind taking a look at some records on that film for me? I am not sure yet, but I may have a couple I need from that film. Also, do you have a Cornelia Dias in your line?
Maureen Bejar
I have not come across the name Cornelia Diaz. Yes, I will take a look at anything you need just let me know.
Thank you for the offer to look at the records. However, while I have not come across anything specific on that film, I did find some things intriguing. There are too many records which I am interested in on that film, so I am not going to burden you. Through my Ledesma line there was a Rosa Maria Cervantes that married Cayetano Ledesma and some of their children have records in 218445 baptisms 1785-1803. There are many Cervantes on your film that may be related to Rosa Maria. I also came across some De La Torre's.
Please note everyone doing research on De La Torre that some of the records on film 218517 have an alternative spelling of De La Thorre. This is something that I have never seen before and could make all the difference on a search!
One last thing though. My Alviso line was marrying into the Dias family. Cornelia Dias married to Ignacio Alviso in 1832 Jalos, I also have a Atilana Dias married to Mateo Alviso 1821 Jalos. I had originally thought that it was Tepa, so sorry my mistake.
Maureen Bejar
Hello Reye I can tell you now that you Díaz family will be wither of three Spaniard families
Díaz-Tiscareño, Díaz-Castellanos or Díaz de León since they are from Tepa. 2 if them being origin
og Aguascalientes and the Castellanos being an Alteño name. -Daniel
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I'm just hoping that the marriage records actually show who the parents of Joseph Manuel Dias are. If they don't, it's going to be tough. It will be interesting to see which one of three families he is from.
Daniel Mendez wrote:
Hello Reye I can tell you now that you Díaz family will be wither of three Spaniard families
Díaz-Tiscareño, Díaz-Castellanos or Díaz de León since they are from Tepa. 2 if them being origin
og Aguascalientes and the Castellanos being an Alteño name. -Daniel
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I am sure Reyes that it will include the parents of MAnuel, unless he was widowed and remarried than that is the only case where it wont list the parents. Often when someone was married more than once, they will only list the parents on the first marriage even if its 7 marriages. Once you reach Manuel's grandfather who ever he may have been you will connecto to all of us in someway, youll go back so far in your genealogy 1500-1600, and given the right line back to the Kings of Spain and princes of Europe, I connect to royalty thanks to my Spanish, Portuguese and German ancestry. Its a good feeling knowing where you come from
but the best is for the perservation for future generations. Since you have alteño ancestors, you're full spanish i suppose, until we can get further possibly italian, portugues, french and others who arrived in Méjico. -Daniel
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Hey Daniel, I was looking at the records that I have a little closer and I did find the following:
Joseph Manuel Dias - according to family search, under Batch #M603728, Source Call #0218519 (marriage record), Joseph's grandson Juan Jose Diaz is listed as Juan Jose Diaz Castellano and was married to a Cresencia Gomez in 1811. This same record shows that Juan Jose Diaz Castellano's father, who is the son of Joseph Manuel Dias, as Nicolas Diaz Castellano (Married to a Teresa De Asebes in 1788). So, does this mean my family line is going to be in the Diaz Castellano line you are referring to? If so, are you aware of how far back the Diaz Castellano line has been traced already?
Reye
Daniel Mendez wrote:
Hello Reye I can tell you now that you Díaz family will be wither of three Spaniard families
Díaz-Tiscareño, Díaz-Castellanos or Díaz de León since they are from Tepa. 2 if them being origin
og Aguascalientes and the Castellanos being an Alteño name. -Daniel
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This does mean you're a Díaz-Castellano, that's good! Either way any of the Díaz family you connected to we'd still be related, I descned from all 3. I believe an other person and myself have traced this family back to 1625 or so to Spain I believe. They mostly resided in Tepatitlán and Ayo El Chico or Ayotlan same place. Now you need to connect to our trunk of the tree and we'll see how exactly were related. -Daniel P.S I will look into your line.
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Hello Reye, the info you gave me is helpful your Joseph Manuel should be son of my Joseph Díaz born 1687 several of is kids married in Tepatitlán. That film of Manuel married in 1752 will show everything, its important! The founder of the family was Pedro Castellano he had only one known son to carry his surname, all his daughters never gave their own kids the last name. So you should descend from Joseph born in 1687. He had kids until the 1730. -Daniel (Have you ordered the film? Hope this helps.
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Daniel, while we are on the subject of Castellanos. I have stoppod at Santiago Castellanos b-abt 1760 Tepa, Married to Magdalena Navarro- I have the Navarro, I need to continue with Castellanos, mother may have been Josepha Arias- father Unknown
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Mendez
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Joseph Manuel Dias - Married in 1752- Tepatitlan De Morelos
Hello Reye, the info you gave me is helpful your Joseph Manuel should be son of my Joseph Díaz born 1687 several of is kids married in Tepatitlán. That film of Manuel married in 1752 will show everything, its important! The founder of the family was Pedro Castellano he had only one known son to carry his surname, all his daughters never gave their own kids the last name. So you should descend from Joseph born in 1687. He had kids until the 1730. -Daniel (Have you ordered the film? Hope this helps.
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I am actually not sure if the Diaz castellanos and Castellano families are related. None of their descendants rarely use Castellanos, they eventually shortened to Diaz now in current usage. You might be a family from Castellanos de Talaveara?? possiblity?
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So Daniel, after you gave me this information I did a little digging on IGI and was able to determine that a Joseph Dias was born around 1687 in De, Atotonilico El Alto, Jalisco, and was married to a Juana Geronima Hurtado de Mendoza in 1709 in De, Atotonilico El Alto, Jalisco (No source info listed on this record). I was also able to determine that this same Joseph Dias had a father by the name of Pedro Dias (not listed as Pedro Dias Castellano) and a mother by the name of Maria Albares (no source information listed on this record). It states that Pedro Dias was born around 1660 in De, Atotonilico El Alto, Jalisco and was married to Maria Albares around 1680. I was also able to find, on IGI (Batch #C603001, Source#0222109) that a Manuel Augustin Dias Hurtado (Assuming this is Joseph Manuel Dias) was baptized in 1728 in De Atotonilico El Alto, Jalisco, and his parents were Joseph Dias & Geronima Hurtado De Mendoza. So, I'm assuming this is the same Joseph Diaz and Pedro
Castellano you are referring to???? If so, why. in these records, are there no reference to the name "Castellano." I should also note that these same records (no source information) show that Pedro Dias & Maria Albares had a daughter around 1685 by the name of Agustina Albares. This would be Joseph Dias' older sister.
Daniel Mendez wrote:
Hello Reye, the info you gave me is helpful your Joseph Manuel should be son of my Joseph Díaz born 1687 several of is kids married in Tepatitlán. That film of Manuel married in 1752 will show everything, its important! The founder of the family was Pedro Castellano he had only one known son to carry his surname, all his daughters never gave their own kids the last name. So you should descend from Joseph born in 1687. He had kids until the 1730. -Daniel (Have you ordered the film? Hope this helps.
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Monday, July 21, 2008
Dear Reye Diaz--
The first births available for Atotonilco el Alto seem
to start from 1699 to 1749. The marriages of the same
place seem to be from 1743-1789. Where there is no
source indicated, I would think that the researchers
were giving their best estimates.
Although I have looked at some marriage dispensations
in the past, these are harder to locate with the
proper Microfilm number. Marriage dispensations can
give great clues to the family lines especially for
these earlier times. There will not be absolute dates
and or places but one can tell/ guess who married who
and from which trunk families they came.
I have researched for many years in the Atotonilco el
Alto area and most of my finds have been in the
ranchos around Atotonilco el Alto and not in the city
itself. There is still much to be discovered. I
think you are going in the right direction by putting
forth questions for which some more experienced
researcher might have the answers.
Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
San Diego, Ca.
--- Reye Diaz wrote:
> So Daniel, after you gave me this information I did
> a little digging on IGI and was able to determine
> that a Joseph Dias was born around 1687 in De,
> Atotonilico El Alto, Jalisco, and was married to a
> Juana Geronima Hurtado de Mendoza in 1709 in De,
> Atotonilico El Alto, Jalisco (No source info listed
> on this record). I was also able to determine that
> this same Joseph Dias had a father by the name of
> Pedro Dias (not listed as Pedro Dias Castellano) and
> a mother by the name of Maria Albares (no source
> information listed on this record). It states that
> Pedro Dias was born around 1660 in De, Atotonilico
> El Alto, Jalisco and was married to Maria Albares
> around 1680. I was also able to find, on IGI (Batch
> #C603001, Source#0222109) that a Manuel Augustin
> Dias Hurtado (Assuming this is Joseph Manuel Dias)
> was baptized in 1728 in De Atotonilico El Alto,
> Jalisco, and his parents were Joseph Dias & Geronima
> Hurtado De Mendoza. So, I'm assuming this is the
> same Joseph Diaz and Pedro
> Castellano you are referring to???? If so, why. in
> these records, are there no reference to the name
> "Castellano." I should also note that these same
> records (no source information) show that Pedro Dias
> & Maria Albares had a daughter around 1685 by the
> name of Agustina Albares. This would be Joseph
> Dias' older sister.
>
> Daniel Mendez wrote:
> Hello Reye, the info you gave me is helpful your
> Joseph Manuel should be son of my Joseph Díaz born
> 1687 several of is kids married in Tepatitlán. That
> film of Manuel married in 1752 will show everything,
> its important! The founder of the family was Pedro
> Castellano he had only one known son to carry his
> surname, all his daughters never gave their own kids
> the last name. So you should descend from Joseph
> born in 1687. He had kids until the 1730. -Daniel
> (Have you ordered the film? Hope this helps.
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with
> Windows Live Messenger.
>
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAG…
Hello All,
I wonder if anyone remembers a website I lost. It was a way to find Ranchos in Mexico by the name of the family that lived there. I used it to find a Trevino rancho in Matamoros. Afterward, I was able to see the rancho from an arial photo. Thanks in advance.
Jan
Jan, The site that I use is, PueblosAmerica.com
However, I have not used it in conjunction with a family name, only in
locating a rancho that appears in a document. This site offers some very useful information. Hope this helps
/hs
San Jose, CA
Jan Jaeckle wrote:
Hello All,
I wonder if anyone remembers a website I lost. It was a way to find Ranchos in Mexico by the name of the family that lived there. I used it to find a Trevino rancho in Matamoros. Afterward, I was able to see the rancho from an arial photo. Thanks in advance.
Jan
Thanks Santos, that's the one! Jan
--- On Mon, 7/21/08, Santos Luna wrote:
From: Santos Luna
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] locating Ranchos in Mexico
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, July 21, 2008, 10:19 AM
Jan, The site that I use is, PueblosAmerica.com
However, I have not used it in conjunction with a family name, only in
locating a rancho that appears in a document. This site offers some very
useful information. Hope this helps
/hs
San Jose, CA
Jan Jaeckle wrote:
Hello All,
I wonder if anyone remembers a website I lost. It was a way to find
Ranchos in Mexico by the name of the family that lived there. I used it to
find a Trevino rancho in Matamoros. Afterward, I was able to see the rancho
from an arial photo. Thanks in advance.
Jan
Thanks for the information Patricia.
patricia burton wrote: Monday, July 21, 2008
Dear Reye Diaz--
The first births available for Atotonilco el Alto seem
to start from 1699 to 1749. The marriages of the same
place seem to be from 1743-1789. Where there is no
source indicated, I would think that the researchers
were giving their best estimates.
Although I have looked at some marriage dispensations
in the past, these are harder to locate with the
proper Microfilm number. Marriage dispensations can
give great clues to the family lines especially for
these earlier times. There will not be absolute dates
and or places but one can tell/ guess who married who
and from which trunk families they came.
I have researched for many years in the Atotonilco el
Alto area and most of my finds have been in the
ranchos around Atotonilco el Alto and not in the city
itself. There is still much to be discovered. I
think you are going in the right direction by putting
forth questions for which some more experienced
researcher might have the answers.
Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
San Diego, Ca.
--- Reye Diaz wrote:
> So Daniel, after you gave me this information I did
> a little digging on IGI and was able to determine
> that a Joseph Dias was born around 1687 in De,
> Atotonilico El Alto, Jalisco, and was married to a
> Juana Geronima Hurtado de Mendoza in 1709 in De,
> Atotonilico El Alto, Jalisco (No source info listed
> on this record). I was also able to determine that
> this same Joseph Dias had a father by the name of
> Pedro Dias (not listed as Pedro Dias Castellano) and
> a mother by the name of Maria Albares (no source
> information listed on this record). It states that
> Pedro Dias was born around 1660 in De, Atotonilico
> El Alto, Jalisco and was married to Maria Albares
> around 1680. I was also able to find, on IGI (Batch
> #C603001, Source#0222109) that a Manuel Augustin
> Dias Hurtado (Assuming this is Joseph Manuel Dias)
> was baptized in 1728 in De Atotonilico El Alto,
> Jalisco, and his parents were Joseph Dias & Geronima
> Hurtado De Mendoza. So, I'm assuming this is the
> same Joseph Diaz and Pedro
> Castellano you are referring to???? If so, why. in
> these records, are there no reference to the name
> "Castellano." I should also note that these same
> records (no source information) show that Pedro Dias
> & Maria Albares had a daughter around 1685 by the
> name of Agustina Albares. This would be Joseph
> Dias' older sister.
>
> Daniel Mendez wrote:
> Hello Reye, the info you gave me is helpful your
> Joseph Manuel should be son of my Joseph Díaz born
> 1687 several of is kids married in Tepatitlán. That
> film of Manuel married in 1752 will show everything,
> its important! The founder of the family was Pedro
> Castellano he had only one known son to carry his
> surname, all his daughters never gave their own kids
> the last name. So you should descend from Joseph
> born in 1687. He had kids until the 1730. -Daniel
> (Have you ordered the film? Hope this helps.
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with
> Windows Live Messenger.
>
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAG…
Question for you Patricia. Based on what you have just told me, the furthest I have been able to trace back so far on my Diaz line is Pedro Dias who was born around 1660. According to Daniel, Pedro should be a Diaz Castellano. It has been notated that Pedro Dias was married to a Maria Albares around 1680. So, my question is, can the "marriage dispensations" list and/or state who the parents of Pedro Dias were?? Or, considering IGI does not show who the parents are, there is probably no microfiche to show this information?
patricia burton wrote:
Monday, July 21, 2008
Dear Reye Diaz--
The first births available for Atotonilco el Alto seem
to start from 1699 to 1749. The marriages of the same
place seem to be from 1743-1789. Where there is no
source indicated, I would think that the researchers
were giving their best estimates.
Although I have looked at some marriage dispensations
in the past, these are harder to locate with the
proper Microfilm number. Marriage dispensations can
give great clues to the family lines especially for
these earlier times. There will not be absolute dates
and or places but one can tell/ guess who married who
and from which trunk families they came.
I have researched for many years in the Atotonilco el
Alto area and most of my finds have been in the
ranchos around Atotonilco el Alto and not in the city
itself. There is still much to be discovered. I
think you are going in the right direction by putting
forth questions for which some more experienced
researcher might have the answers.
Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
San Diego, Ca.
--- Reye Diaz wrote:
> So Daniel, after you gave me this information I did
> a little digging on IGI and was able to determine
> that a Joseph Dias was born around 1687 in De,
> Atotonilico El Alto, Jalisco, and was married to a
> Juana Geronima Hurtado de Mendoza in 1709 in De,
> Atotonilico El Alto, Jalisco (No source info listed
> on this record). I was also able to determine that
> this same Joseph Dias had a father by the name of
> Pedro Dias (not listed as Pedro Dias Castellano) and
> a mother by the name of Maria Albares (no source
> information listed on this record). It states that
> Pedro Dias was born around 1660 in De, Atotonilico
> El Alto, Jalisco and was married to Maria Albares
> around 1680. I was also able to find, on IGI (Batch
> #C603001, Source#0222109) that a Manuel Augustin
> Dias Hurtado (Assuming this is Joseph Manuel Dias)
> was baptized in 1728 in De Atotonilico El Alto,
> Jalisco, and his parents were Joseph Dias & Geronima
> Hurtado De Mendoza. So, I'm assuming this is the
> same Joseph Diaz and Pedro
> Castellano you are referring to???? If so, why. in
> these records, are there no reference to the name
> "Castellano." I should also note that these same
> records (no source information) show that Pedro Dias
> & Maria Albares had a daughter around 1685 by the
> name of Agustina Albares. This would be Joseph
> Dias' older sister.
>
> Daniel Mendez wrote:
> Hello Reye, the info you gave me is helpful your
> Joseph Manuel should be son of my Joseph Díaz born
> 1687 several of is kids married in Tepatitlán. That
> film of Manuel married in 1752 will show everything,
> its important! The founder of the family was Pedro
> Castellano he had only one known son to carry his
> surname, all his daughters never gave their own kids
> the last name. So you should descend from Joseph
> born in 1687. He had kids until the 1730. -Daniel
> (Have you ordered the film? Hope this helps.
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with
> Windows Live Messenger.
>
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAG…
Monday, July 21, 2008
Dear Reye Diaz--
There are a number of reasons why a marriage would
require a dispensation. For instance:
1. The groom or bride were from an area different
from the area in which they were to be married.
2. The groom and or bride had been married before and
were either one or both a widower or widow.
3. The couple were related to one another by blood
and by doing a dispensation, the different parents
going back to the original first parents, would be
noted.
4. One person of the marrying couple could have been
related by marriage to a third person who was a
relative of the second person in the marrying couple.
..................
One of my favorite research topics is/was Don Nicolas
Alexandro LOMELIN. Here are my notes on this fellow
who was married 5 times to 4 women, two of which were
related to ancestors of my husband.
He is our direct line relative.
Baptismal information--none yet.
First Marriage of four was on Microfilm #280,895.
He stated he was born in Santa Clara, Ocotlan. He was
listed as an espanol. The padrinos were Nicolas
RASURO and (his sister) Feliciana LOMELIN, espanoles
and conjuges.
He was left a widower in Sep 1793, according to
Microfilm #280,997.
Second Marriage on Microfilm #280,895, said that he
was from Santa Clara.
His third wife, Maria Teresa HURTADO, was
previously married to Jose Manuel CURIEL, who had died
abt. 13 months earlier. This marriage on 13 Dec 1809
in Atotonilco el Alto, was considered null and void
because proper dispensation was not obtained.
(Apparently, they were related," de afinidad de
tercero con quarto grado".)
They remarried on 1 Oct 1810, in Atotonilco el
Alto. Their only child had been born in August and
would live to adulthood and marry. Unfortunately,
Maria Teresa would die within the year.
It would seem that this Marriage record was on
Microfilm #222,189 and in this record he said he was
from Poncitlan, then went to Santa Clara, and then
arrived in Margaritas.
Fourth Marriage on Microfilm #222,190. Nicolas
Alexandro LOMELIN, esp., of Lomalarga (Ocotlan) and
vec. de Margaritas. It said that he was a widower for
a third time and that his wife died 4 months ago. The
padrinos were Luis OROSCO and Guadalupe CURIEL. He
would marry Maria Antonia CHAVEZ his fourth wife and
move to Ayo el Chico.
On 5 Mar 1815, he and his wife, Anta. CHABES, were
padrinos to a granddaughter, Maria Sesarea Trinidad
born in Feb in Santa Clara, La Barca, Jalisco. His
name was listed as Alexandro LOMELIN.
When the 4th wife married a second time, she said
that she had been a widow for 2 years and 8 months.
Apparently, Alexandro as he was listed, died about
1828 or maybe between late 1825 and 1830, at the age
of 65-70.
..................
I like to use this example because it shows how the
information on one person can change and yet it is all
for the same person.
In answer to your question, if one of the above listed
reasons for a dispensation was not in evidence for
Pedro Dias and Maria Albares, there may not have been
a need for a dispensation for them. However, there
can be other ways this information can come out at
times.
Although I can not give you an example at this time, I
do know that in one of my old research areas when
certain children were baptized, their parents names
were given but not the grandparents. However, the
pardrinos names were given and so were the parents of
the padrinos! It would appear that the child and
parents were not of the "important families" but that
the padrinos probably were.
I never lose hope of finding more information but I
also know that some times it takes YEARS for this
information to be revealed.
Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
San Diego
--- Reye Diaz wrote:
> Question for you Patricia. Based on what you have
> just told me, the furthest I have been able to trace
> back so far on my Diaz line is Pedro Dias who was
> born around 1660. According to Daniel, Pedro should
> be a Diaz Castellano. It has been notated that
> Pedro Dias was married to a Maria Albares around
> 1680. So, my question is, can the "marriage
> dispensations" list and/or state who the parents of
> Pedro Dias were?? Or, considering IGI does not show
> who the parents are, there is probably no microfiche
> to show this information?
>
>
>
> patricia burton wrote:
> Monday, July 21, 2008
>
> Dear Reye Diaz--
>
> The first births available for Atotonilco el Alto
> seem
> to start from 1699 to 1749. The marriages of the
> same
> place seem to be from 1743-1789. Where there is no
> source indicated, I would think that the researchers
> were giving their best estimates.
>
> Although I have looked at some marriage
> dispensations
> in the past, these are harder to locate with the
> proper Microfilm number. Marriage dispensations can
> give great clues to the family lines especially for
> these earlier times. There will not be absolute
> dates
> and or places but one can tell/ guess who married
> who
> and from which trunk families they came.
>
> I have researched for many years in the Atotonilco
> el
> Alto area and most of my finds have been in the
> ranchos around Atotonilco el Alto and not in the
> city
> itself. There is still much to be discovered. I
> think you are going in the right direction by
> putting
> forth questions for which some more experienced
> researcher might have the answers.
>
> Sincerely,
> Patricia Burton
> San Diego, Ca.
>
>
> --- Reye Diaz wrote:
>
> > So Daniel, after you gave me this information I
> did
> > a little digging on IGI and was able to determine
> > that a Joseph Dias was born around 1687 in De,
> > Atotonilico El Alto, Jalisco, and was married to a
> > Juana Geronima Hurtado de Mendoza in 1709 in De,
> > Atotonilico El Alto, Jalisco (No source info
> listed
> > on this record). I was also able to determine that
> > this same Joseph Dias had a father by the name of
> > Pedro Dias (not listed as Pedro Dias Castellano)
> and
> > a mother by the name of Maria Albares (no source
> > information listed on this record). It states that
> > Pedro Dias was born around 1660 in De, Atotonilico
> > El Alto, Jalisco and was married to Maria Albares
> > around 1680. I was also able to find, on IGI
> (Batch
> > #C603001, Source#0222109) that a Manuel Augustin
> > Dias Hurtado (Assuming this is Joseph Manuel Dias)
> > was baptized in 1728 in De Atotonilico El Alto,
> > Jalisco, and his parents were Joseph Dias &
> Geronima
> > Hurtado De Mendoza. So, I'm assuming this is the
> > same Joseph Diaz and Pedro
> > Castellano you are referring to???? If so, why. in
> > these records, are there no reference to the name
> > "Castellano." I should also note that these same
> > records (no source information) show that Pedro
> Dias
> > & Maria Albares had a daughter around 1685 by the
> > name of Agustina Albares. This would be Joseph
> > Dias' older sister.
> >
> > Daniel Mendez wrote:
> > Hello Reye, the info you gave me is helpful your
> > Joseph Manuel should be son of my Joseph Díaz born
> > 1687 several of is kids married in Tepatitlán.
> That
> > film of Manuel married in 1752 will show
> everything,
> > its important! The founder of the family was Pedro
> > Castellano he had only one known son to carry his
> > surname, all his daughters never gave their own
> kids
> > the last name. So you should descend from Joseph
> > born in 1687. He had kids until the 1730. -Daniel
> > (Have you ordered the film? Hope this helps.
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
> > Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with
> > Windows Live Messenger.
> >
>
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> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Yes! This is the same family I descend from the Díaz Castellano. They had 4-5 known daughters most took the mothers last name not Díaz. One did take Díaz. The sons took Díaz. He could not have been born in Atot. because he dosent show on the microfilm. He either came from Spain or a nearby Alteño city. Although he is the first Díaz Castellano ever mentioned in Los Altos. Díaz Castellano is a compound surname! Their is a difference between "apellido compuesto familiar" and "apellido compuesto paternal y maternal" (eventhough they mean both mean the same thing in a way. The second example is when the usual father mother have a child he/she carries both names for only one generation. The first example is when two families (often important families or just whatever not sure what to say!) decide they want all their descendants to carry both their names forever until someone wants to compound it again or shortened. Our Spaniard families have very complicated naming systems in the world in my opinion. Anyway Díaz Castellano somwtime when it was compounded it would carry onto the descendants for generations. Sometimes though people like to shorten it in records when they told the priest so maybe Manuel said MAnuel Díaz instead of Manuel Díaz Castellano. My parents did this similar thing when they joined both their names in their marriage they both took Méndez del Camino usually just the groom here in the USA. But also my father. Kinda different but my descendancy will also take Méndez del Camino. My father was Méndez y Cortés and my mother was López del Camino y García. I tthink i should end now it gets too complicated.
_________________________________________________________________
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So Daniel, you say Pedro Diaz could not have born in De Atotonilco El Alto, becasuse he does not show up on the Microfilm. Out of curiosity, why would IGI have him being born here in 1660 if he was not? How does that record get entered? Do you have a theory?
Reye
Daniel Mendez wrote:
Yes! This is the same family I descend from the Díaz Castellano. They had 4-5 known daughters most took the mothers last name not Díaz. One did take Díaz. The sons took Díaz. He could not have been born in Atot. because he dosent show on the microfilm. He either came from Spain or a nearby Alteño city. Although he is the first Díaz Castellano ever mentioned in Los Altos. Díaz Castellano is a compound surname! Their is a difference between "apellido compuesto familiar" and "apellido compuesto paternal y maternal" (eventhough they mean both mean the same thing in a way. The second example is when the usual father mother have a child he/she carries both names for only one generation. The first example is when two families (often important families or just whatever not sure what to say!) decide they want all their descendants to carry both their names forever until someone wants to compound it again or shortened. Our Spaniard families have very complicated naming systems in the
world in my opinion. Anyway Díaz Castellano somwtime when it was compounded it would carry onto the descendants for generations. Sometimes though people like to shorten it in records when they told the priest so maybe Manuel said MAnuel Díaz instead of Manuel Díaz Castellano. My parents did this similar thing when they joined both their names in their marriage they both took Méndez del Camino usually just the groom here in the USA. But also my father. Kinda different but my descendancy will also take Méndez del Camino. My father was Méndez y Cortés and my mother was López del Camino y García. I tthink i should end now it gets too complicated.
_________________________________________________________________
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IT was obiously a regular genealogist like us who thought Pedro might have been born in such year in such place. They could have add it to the IGI. I have many ancestors who are said to have been born in Nueva España on the IGI when really they were from Spain. I have no doubt Pedro was a penínsular, being a native of the Iberic Peninsula. Many of my ancestors were penínsulares because the only way you were able to be of the high class in México you had to be born in Europe. a lot of my ancestors (mother's side mostly) would actually take their pregnant wife or acutally empregnant their wives in Spain so their child could be born in Spain when they returned to New Spain, they would be in the highest class of society and get upper jobs. I believe this is all pointless if your Spanish your Spanish(I dont think you the place matters, but that was their beliefS!
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I have this but you should wait for the film!
JOSEPH MANUEL DIAS
Pedigree
Male
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
30 MAY 1731
Atotonilco El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
Death:
Burial:
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
Source Information:
Batch No.:
Dates:
Source Call No.:
Type:
Printout Call No.:
Type:
C603001
1699 - 1749
0222109
Film
NONE
Sheet:
_________________________________________________________________
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Saturday, July 19, 2008
Dear Daniel--
Could you please send the rest of the information on
this person since you have it. I, too, have the film
#222,109 on indefinite loan but I am not at the Family
History Center until Wednesday.
Is there a wife and children for Joseph Manuel Dias?
Are there other siblings for him? Who are his
parents? Exactly where was Joseph Manuel Dias born,
in Atotonilco el Alto, or one of the surrounding
ranchos? Is the date of birth the same as the
baptismal date? Who were the godparents?
Thanking you in advance.
Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
San Diego
--- Daniel Mendez wrote:
>
> I have this but you should wait for the film!
>
>
>
>
>
> JOSEPH MANUEL DIAS
> Pedigree
>
>
> Male
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Event(s):
>
>
> Birth:
>
>
> Christening:
>
>
>
>
> 30 MAY 1731
> Atotonilco El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
>
>
> Death:
>
>
> Burial:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages:
>
>
> Extracted birth or christening record for the
> locality listed in the record. The source records
> are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or
> christening date.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Source Information:
>
>
> Batch No.:
> Dates:
> Source Call No.:
> Type:
> Printout Call No.:
> Type:
>
>
>
>
> C603001
> 1699 - 1749
> 0222109
> Film
> NONE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sheet:
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with
> Windows Live Messenger.
>
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAG…
Hello Patricia, in regards to Joseph Manuel Dias, Daniel was responding to my original query in which I was advising the Nuestro community that I'm currently awaiting film from the Family History Center regarding the marriage of a Joseph Manuel Dias to a Maria Anna
Peres in Tepatitlan De Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico. I have been able to
determine that they were both married on June 25, 1752 (Batch #M603726,
Source Call #0218517) and am hoping the actual film will show who the
parents are. While I'm waiting, I threw this event out there in case anyone already had this information as to who Jospeh Manuel Dias' parents were. As a result of this original query, Daniel was kind enough to let me know that there is a strong possibility that this Dias line comes from one of three lines, including the Diaz Castellano line. After telling me this, I looked into what I currently have already and was able to determine that Joseph's grandson Juan Jose Diaz is listed as Juan Jose Diaz Castellano and was married to a Cresencia Gomez in 1811. This same record shows that Juan Jose Diaz Castellano's father, who is the son of Joseph Manuel Dias, is a Nicolas Diaz Castellano (Married to a Teresa De Asebes in 1788). I then asked Daniel if this means the Joseph Manuel Dias I was asking about is part of the Diaz Castellano line Daniel was referring to. As you know, Daniel responded by telling me yes, that Jospeh Manuel Diaz should be the son of a Joseph Diaz
born in 1687 and that the film I'm awaiting should show everything. As you can imagine, I'm very excited right now. However, if you have access to the film now and look at it, any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.
Reye Diaz
patricia burton wrote: Saturday, July 19, 2008
Dear Daniel--
Could you please send the rest of the information on
this person since you have it. I, too, have the film
#222,109 on indefinite loan but I am not at the Family
History Center until Wednesday.
Is there a wife and children for Joseph Manuel Dias?
Are there other siblings for him? Who are his
parents? Exactly where was Joseph Manuel Dias born,
in Atotonilco el Alto, or one of the surrounding
ranchos? Is the date of birth the same as the
baptismal date? Who were the godparents?
Thanking you in advance.
Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
San Diego
--- Daniel Mendez wrote:
>
> I have this but you should wait for the film!
>
>
>
>
>
> JOSEPH MANUEL DIAS
> Pedigree
>
>
> Male
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Event(s):
>
>
> Birth:
>
>
> Christening:
>
>
>
>
> 30 MAY 1731
> Atotonilco El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
>
>
> Death:
>
>
> Burial:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages:
>
>
> Extracted birth or christening record for the
> locality listed in the record. The source records
> are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or
> christening date.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Source Information:
>
>
> Batch No.:
> Dates:
> Source Call No.:
> Type:
> Printout Call No.:
> Type:
>
>
>
>
> C603001
> 1699 - 1749
> 0222109
> Film
> NONE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sheet:
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with
> Windows Live Messenger.
>
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAG…
Hi Patricia, i actually dont have any other info on him, but I do know his family had to be Diaz Castellano, the Diaz
family of Atotonilco were Diaz Castellano.
_________________________________________________________________
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Dear Patricia,
Ascención de León Family
Thanks for your help! You've helped alot with my
genealogy! One little branch can spark new flames!
(Tello de Orozco) Regarding towards the Liebanos it
Is this what you saw in Somos Primos? I believe they once had a link to the holdings of the Los Angeles Regional Family History Center, which include films for Moyahua de Estrada, but only dating from 1814 to 1877. The University of Texas has historical documents in some collections dating from 1692 to 1814, but I didn't see anything about Moyahua. You could ask them or search the Archivos de la Nacion.
No, What I saw was submitted to "Somos Primos" by Johanna de Soto several years ago. I have tried contacting her but got no where. They were records from the 1600's and ended with 1814 if I recall
correctly. My computer went down at that time and by the time it was up and running the information was gone. I have not seen it since. I know that the records were for the Catholic church in Moyahua and ended in 1814. That is where the records begin for the church in Moyahua now. I was not able to even print out what I saw at the time. It has been very frustrating as I know there are other records that exist that we need. I tried going through the Family History Library but they were not able to help me either. They needed more information then what I was able to give them at the time. I will keep trying to locate them.
Thanks for your interest.
Irene
----- Original Message ----
From: Emilie Garcia
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 3:22:58 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Films for Moyahua de Estrada
Is this what you saw in Somos Primos? I believe they once had a link to the holdings of the Los Angeles Regional Family History Center, which include films for Moyahua de Estrada, but only dating from 1814 to 1877. The University of Texas has historical documents in some collections dating from 1692 to 1814, but I didn't see anything about Moyahua. You could ask them or search the Archivos de la Nacion.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
1162563
Mexico
Zacatecas, Moyahua de Estrada
Indice de Bautismos (1870-1931) item 1-2
Bautismos (1814-1825) item 3-5
1162565
Mexico
Zacatecas, Moyahua de Estrada y
Juchipila
Bautismos (1849-1870)
Informacion Matrimonial (1868-1869)
1162573
Mexico
Zacatecas, Moyahua de Estrada
Bautismos de hijos naturales (1894-1977) item 1-3
Indice de Matrimonios (1884-1942) item 4
Matrimonios (1814-1825) item 5-6
1162574
Mexico
Zacatecas, Moyahua de Estrada
Matrimonios (1825-1848) item 1
Matrimonios (1853-1860) item 2
Matrimonios (1870-1891) item 3-4
1162585
Mexico
Zacatecas, Moyahua
Informacion Matrimonial (1926 ) item 1
Defunciones de españoles (1814-1825) item 2
Defunciones de indios (1814-1824 ) item 3
Defunciones ( 1828-1851, 1859 ) item 4-
Irene, the link below appeared in Somos Primos, March 2002, posted by Johanna de Soto, but the link is broken now. It was a link for the Archivos Parroquiales de Juchipila and Moyahua's Parroquia de Santiago Apostol. I think it was one of those websites on genoa.com, but I can't find it anywhere now, nor can I find Johanna de Soto's e-mail.
I will keep looking also because I discovered in the new Family Search Pilot site that some of my ancestors that have eluded me for years are listed in records for Moyahua and the nearby municipality of Teul, and they are not listed in the regular FHC IGI. Both towns are close to Nochistlan and Aguascalientes where many of my Zacatecan ancestors came from.
Emilie, Port Orchard, WA
http://www.logicnet.com.mx/~zac450/archjuch.html
Este repositorio, en su momento, debió reunir una cantidad mucho mayor de documentos que los integrados al presente inventario. Por diversas causas fue menguando el fondo parroquial hasta nuestros días, hasta quedar integrado por documentos que, por su singularidad, son valiosos e importantes para la historia regional, pero con lagunas importantes sobre todo para la historia demográfica.
Sin duda que la importancia económica y poblacional de la región, durante el período colonial y el siglo XIX, a través de la alcaldía mayor y la parroquia, produjo una gran cantidad de documentos en un período de casi 400 años, pero son pocos los que han llegado hasta nuestros días.
A pesar de esa situación, este archivo ofrece elementos muy importantes que, complementados en otros de la región y en repositorios más amplios, como el del Arzobispado o la Audiencia de Guadalajara, brindan un excelente material para el trabajo del historiador. Sent by Johanna de Soto
----- Original Message -----
From: Irene Sweet
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Films for Moyahua de Estrada
No, What I saw was submitted to "Somos Primos" by Johanna de Soto several years ago. I have tried contacting her but got no where. They were records from the 1600's and ended with 1814 if I recall
correctly. My computer went down at that time and by the time it was up and running the information was gone. I have not seen it since. I know that the records were for the Catholic church in Moyahua and ended in 1814. That is where the records begin for the church in Moyahua now. I was not able to even print out what I saw at the time. It has been very frustrating as I know there are other records that exist that we need. I tried going through the Family History Library but they were not able to help me either. They needed more information then what I was able to give them at the time. I will keep trying to locate them.
Thanks for your interest.
Irene
Emilie,
I think you are correct on the Somos Primos March 2002 issue. I just wonder if we contact Somos Primos and ask if they could run that again if they would do so. Have to give it a try after my company leaves.
Irene
----- Original Message ----
From: Emilie Garcia
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 2:43:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Films for Moyahua de Estrada
Irene, the link below appeared in Somos Primos, March 2002, posted by Johanna de Soto, but the link is broken now. It was a link for the Archivos Parroquiales de Juchipila and Moyahua's Parroquia de Santiago Apostol. I think it was one of those websites on genoa.com, but I can't find it anywhere now, nor can I find Johanna de Soto's e-mail.
I will keep looking also because I discovered in the new Family Search Pilot site that some of my ancestors that have eluded me for years are listed in records for Moyahua and the nearby municipality of Teul, and they are not listed in the regular FHC IGI. Both towns are close to Nochistlan and Aguascalientes where many of my Zacatecan ancestors came from.
Emilie, Port Orchard, WA
http://www.logicnet.com.mx/~zac450/archjuch.html
Este repositorio, en su momento, debió reunir una cantidad mucho mayor de documentos que los integrados al presente inventario. Por diversas causas fue menguando el fondo parroquial hasta nuestros días, hasta quedar integrado por documentos que, por su singularidad, son valiosos e importantes para la historia regional, pero con lagunas importantes sobre todo para la historia demográfica.
Sin duda que la importancia económica y poblacional de la región, durante el período colonial y el siglo XIX, a través de la alcaldía mayor y la parroquia, produjo una gran cantidad de documentos en un período de casi 400 años, pero son pocos los que han llegado hasta nuestros días.
A pesar de esa situación, este archivo ofrece elementos muy importantes que, complementados en otros de la región y en repositorios más amplios, como el del Arzobispado o la Audiencia de Guadalajara, brindan un excelente material para el trabajo del historiador. Sent by Johanna de Soto
----- Original Message -----
From: Irene Sweet
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Films for Moyahua de Estrada
No, What I saw was submitted to "Somos Primos" by Johanna de Soto several years ago. I have tried contacting her but got no where. They were records from the 1600's and ended with 1814 if I recall
correctly. My computer went down at that time and by the time it was up and running the information was gone. I have not seen it since. I know that the records were for the Catholic church in Moyahua and ended in 1814. That is where the records begin for the church in Moyahua now. I was not able to even print out what I saw at the time. It has been very frustrating as I know there are other records that exist that we need. I tried going through the Family History Library but they were not able to help me either. They needed more information then what I was able to give them at the time. I will keep trying to locate them.
Thanks for your interest.
Irene
Hello all! / Hola a todos!
I've been thinking about these archives and finally remembered where it was I saw them about 8 years ago... way before Somos Primos. It was on the INAH website (Instituto Nacional de Antropologia e Historia de Mexico)! I searched the website right now and of course, no luck! Any thoughts on how we can get them from that Mexican institution?
He estado pensando donde fue que vi los archivos paroquiales... y finalmente recorde que hace 8 años los vi en la página del INAH (Instituto Nacional de Antropología e Historia de Mexico)! Fui a esa página y claro que ya no estan disponibles. Alguna idea de como podremos conseguirlos de esa institución Mexicana?
Saludos,
Sandra Gómez de Mendoza
San Antonio, TX
Hi all -
In the last week, i've emailed INAH national (Mexico DF) and INAH Zacatecas and no one has responded. Basically, they are the organization that hosted the link previously posted on Somos Primos (the one you all referenced)...I have not heard back, but will post any updates here if I ever get a response.
Estamos en contacto...
Claudia Reynoso
Irene, Claudia et al...
Perhaps the following archived version of the page referenced about archives of Moyahua held by INAH Zacatecas would be of help, though there does not appear to be any records prior to the early 1800s. There are of course older records for Juchipila. These appear to be the same records held by the FHL and Archivo General de la Nacion in Mexico City.
http://web.archive.org/web/20010210064555/www.logicnet.com.mx/~zac450/i…
http://web.archive.org/web/20010210063640/www.logicnet.com.mx/~zac450/i…
Hola Primo Bill, I can't remember if you or Steve Hernandez stating that Andre Munoz de Nava (Married to Luisa Tiscareno) and Juan Munoz de Nava (married to Elvira Tiscareno ) brothers ,sons of Francisco Munoz de Nava and Maria Sanchez. Is this info connection right ?
Hola Ronnie. Yes, I did make that statement. Juan López de Nava married Elvira Tiscareño (aka Elvira Márquez) on 3 Aug 1650. Their marriage record (acta de matrimonio) reads as follows:
"Juo Lopes espanol con elvira marques espanola"
"En tres dias del mes de agosto de mil y seiscientos y cinqta anos caso y velo con mi licencia hallandome no presente el Pe. alonso munos de guerta según orden de la santa madre yglecia en la capilla de la hasienda de luis de tiscareño a Juo. Lopes espanol hijo legitimo de franco. Munos de nava y de maria gonsales vecos. del pueblo de teoqualtiche con elvira marques española hija ligitima de luis de tiscareño y de lorensa rruis de esparsa vesinos de esta Jurisdiccn. Fueron testigos diego vasques de buendia alvaro marin de penalosa y po. de guerta vecos. de esta villa aviendose presidido todas las diligencias que dispone y manda el ssto concilio de trento fue su padrino diego lopes de nava veco. de esta villa y para que conste lo firme"
Two years later, on 3 Sep 1652, his younger brother Andrés married Elvira's sister Luisa Tiscareño. Again, the marriage ceremony took place at the chappel of the Hacienda de San Bartolomé, which is only a few miles from the center of Aguascalientes (I visited there last February). Their marriage record reads as follows:
"andres lopes nava doña luisa de tiscareño - espanoles"
"en tres de septiembre de mil y seiscientos y cinqta. y dos años depose y vele segun orden de las ssa. madre yglecia aviendo presedido todas las diligencias que el santo consilio dispone y manda en la capilla de la hasienda de luis de tiscareño A andres lopes de nava español hijo ligitimo de franco. munos de nava y de maria gonsales su muger veços. de el pueblo de teoqualtiche Con luisa de tiscareno espanola hija ligitima de luis de tiscareno y de lorensa rruiz de esparsa su muger veços. de esta jurisdicion fueron Testigos diego basques de buendia alvaro marin y diego lopes de nava veços. de esta villa fueron sus padrinos Juo. Lopes muños y elvira marques su muger veços. de esta jurisdicion y para que conste lo firme"
Where did the surname López come from? I guess from his great-grandmother Beatriz López de Fuenllana.
I should also tell you that their mother María González took her surname from her mother María González de Ruvalcaba, married to Pedro de Huerta y Sánchez, so she was sometimes called María de Huerta or María Sánchez.
In short, the names María González, María Sánchez and María de Huerta were used to refer to the same person, the mother of Juan López de Nava and Andrés López (o Muñoz) de Nava.
Although it seems a bit confusing at first, it actually makes sense after a while. You get used to the unconventional way they used to name their children. It is hell for the genealogist, though.
Take care, primo.
Saludos,
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronald Reynoso"
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 2:59 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Attention Primo Bill Figueroa - Munoz de Nava
Hola Primo Bill, I can't remember if you or Steve Hernandez stating that Andres Munoz de Nava (Married to Luisa Tiscareno) and Juan Munoz de Nava (married to Elvira Tiscareno ) brothers, sons of Francisco Munoz de Nava and Maria Sanchez. Is this info connection right ?
Ronnie pariente ,acasi todos de Los Altos
Primo, your info is the same as my info.
Miggy
----- Original Message -----
From: Ronald Reynoso
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 12:59 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Attention Primo Bill Figueroa - Munoz de Nava
Hola Primo Bill, I can't remember if you or Steve Hernandez stating that Andre Munoz de Nava (Married to Luisa Tiscareno) and Juan Munoz de Nava (married to Elvira Tiscareno ) brothers ,sons of Francisco Munoz de Nava and Maria Sanchez. Is this info connection right ?
Ronnie pariente ,acasi todos de Los Altos
_________________________________________________________________
Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety.
http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_W…
http://www.qub.ac.uk/schools/SchoolofLanguagesLiteraturesandPerformingA…
Please see link above. Again my husband's roots intermesh with my roots. I have a question that is probably better asked on this website as the author Dr. Gabriel Sanchez deals with Spanish history. Does anyone know about him? I am interested in his work on Felix O'Neill as Felix O'Neill is my maternal great great grandfather's name. On the link above is Dieciocho 23 2000 117-113. Does this refer to a book? If you read down he has many other works relating to Spain and New Spain, so thought I would share. Does anyone know how to purchase his works or any libraries that have his works besides the one in Belfast?
I don't know whether this is any help but... Dieciocho: Hispanic Enlightenment is a journal. A google search of that title will present options which will probably help you find a way to get a copy.
David Delgado, Albany CA
-----Original Message-----
>From: Maureen Bejar
>Sent: Jul 22, 2008 10:29 PM
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dr. Gabriel Sanchez Spanish Studies
>
>
>http://www.qub.ac.uk/schools/SchoolofLanguagesLiteraturesandPerformingA…
>
>
>Please see link above. Again my husband's roots intermesh with my roots. I have a question that is probably better asked on this website as the author Dr. Gabriel Sanchez deals with Spanish history. Does anyone know about him? I am interested in his work on Felix O'Neill as Felix O'Neill is my maternal great great grandfather's name. On the link above is Dieciocho 23 2000 117-113. Does this refer to a book? If you read down he has many other works relating to Spain and New Spain, so thought I would share. Does anyone know how to purchase his works or any libraries that have his works besides the one in Belfast?
>Thank you for any help.
>
>Maureen Bejar
>
>
Thank you David. That makes sense that it is a journal and the 23 must be the volume in the year 2000. I did a Google search for it, but came up without any leads. I will try searching some library holdings.
Thank you again for the help.
Maureen
I just found my Magdaleno Alvarado in the new Pilot Site! He was born in Moyahua. I'd been looking in the microfilms of Jerez for years.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
I am glad you finally found your Magdaleno. I kinda got excited there for a minute. I have a Jose Magdaleno Alvarado, born July 27, 1818. Close. Happy hunting - Anita
--- On Wed, 7/23/08, Emilie Garcia wrote:
> From: Emilie Garcia
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alvarado from Zacatecas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 12:07 PM
> I just found my Magdaleno Alvarado in the new Pilot Site!
> He was born in Moyahua. I'd been looking in the
> microfilms of Jerez for years.
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
I got a few questions that stemmed for searching the line of Maria de la Luz Tiscareno (sorry, haven't figured out how to write the tilde~), born about 1750, daughter of Vicente Tiscareno and Maria de Torres, as they appear in her marriage to Guadalupe Gonzalez,El Sagrario, Aguascalientes 27 May 1767. They had several children, one of them Cesario (or Sesario) Gonzalez married twice. In his first marriage to Maria de los Santos Ramires, Cesario he is identified as 'Espanol'. However, his parents, Maria de la Luz and Guadalupe, are respectively identified as 'Coyota' and 'Mestizo' in their marriage record. Has anyone faced a similar issue on the 'racial' discrepancy between parents and children? I would have expected for Cesario to be Mestizo, unless he appeared 'Espanol' to the eyes of the priest. Is this common?
Hola Jaime, pues en cuanto a la primera pregunta, si es comun encontrar discrepancias en cuanto a que se modifiquen las castas de los hijos, y no se si se deba a la opinion personal del Cura que realizaba el Bautismo por la apariencia del bautizado o a la prominencia de las familias a la que pertenecia el bautizado, solo consultando varios registros de hermanos o padres y abuelos se podria saber con seguridad a que casta pertenecia, en cuanto a la segunda pregunta, como sabras Vicente de Tiscareño se caso con Maria de Torres el 7 de Mayo de 1749 segun registro del matrimonio en el film # 299826 del catalogo de historia familiar LDS, yo te aconsejo que busques en el film # 299584 que tiene registrada la informacion matrimonial del año 1749 y 50, ahi debe venir informacion importante acerca del origen y vecindad de los contrayentes , asi como la de sus padres y quizas abuelos, ojala tengas suerte y aqui estaremos para ayudarnos mutuamente, saludos.
Jaime, cant help on the detail. ñ=alt164 Ñ=alt165
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaime Alvarado
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 9:54 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Vicente Tiscareno and Maria de Torres
I got a few questions that stemmed for searching the line of Maria de la Luz Tiscareno (sorry, haven't figured out how to write the tilde~), born about 1750, daughter of Vicente Tiscareno and Maria de Torres, as they appear in her marriage to Guadalupe Gonzalez,El Sagrario, Aguascalientes 27 May 1767. They had several children, one of them Cesario (or Sesario) Gonzalez married twice. In his first marriage to Maria de los Santos Ramires, Cesario he is identified as 'Espanol'. However, his parents, Maria de la Luz and Guadalupe, are respectively identified as 'Coyota' and 'Mestizo' in their marriage record. Has anyone faced a similar issue on the 'racial' discrepancy between parents and children? I would have expected for Cesario to be Mestizo, unless he appeared 'Espanol' to the eyes of the priest. Is this common?
The second question, does anyone has info on Vicente de Tiscareno (born about 1725) or Maria de Torres?
Thanks Jaime
Tengo algunas preguntas que surgieon al buscar el linaje de Maria de la Luz Ticareno, nacida circa 1750, hija de Vicente de Tiscareno y Maria de Torres, como aparecen en su matrimonio con Guadalupe Gonzales, en el Sagrario, Aguascalientes el 27 Mayo 1767. Tuvierion varios hijos, uno de ellos Cesario (Sesario) Gonzalez que se caso dos veces. En su primer matrimonio con Maria de los Santos Ramires, Cesario es identificado como 'Espanol', sin embargo, sus padres Maria de la Luz y Guadalupe son identificados como 'Coyota' y 'Mestizo' en su acta de matrimonio. Alguno de ustedes ha encontrado esta discordancia racial entre padres e hijos? Yo hubiera esperado que Cesario fuera 'mestizo', a menos que pareciera a los ojos del cura como 'espanol'. Es esto comun?
La segunda pregunta es si alguien tiene informacion de Vicente de Tiscareno (nacido alrededor de 1725) o de Maria de Torres.
Gracias, Jaime
Hold down the "ALT" key while you type the number "164" (without quotes) on
the key pad. When you release the "ALT" you'll see the letter "ñ". 165 will
give you "Ñ"
John Gonzalez
----- Original Message -----
From: "Miggy GUTIERREZ"
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 22:04
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Vicente Tiscareno and Maria de Torres
Jaime, cant help on the detail. ñ=alt164 Ñ=alt165
Hello all, just started looking a little further into my grandmother's (father's side) Luna line and have already run into a little snag. I thought I would throw it out there in case anyone recognizes something.
Thanks for the de la Torre info. I have been so stuck on them.
carolina
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Yes, I have found such varying descriptions of race in baptisms in my research. One family had several children, and I was amazed that each child was listed with a race different from his parents. In this family I found "espanol", "yndio", "mestizo", and "mulato". A rainbow family.
Yes, I have found the same discrepancies on my Alviso line. Mestiza, Mestizo and then Espanol with siblings of the same mother and father. Als,o mestiza or mestizo at birth and then Espanol for the marriage. I think the race description were quite subjective (or influenced my donations possibly), so they should not be entirely trusted. I think we have spoken on this subject previously.
Maureen Bejar
Thanks to members Maureen and Emilie for the very interesting info on race assignment.
Jaime. PS also thanks for the info on the ~. My Mac (running Windows) does not want to recognize
the command.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Emilie Garcia"
> Yes, I have found such varying descriptions of race in baptisms in my research.
> One family had several children, and I was amazed that each child was listed
> with a race different from his parents. In this family I found "espanol",
> "yndio", "mestizo", and "mulato". A rainbow family.
>
> I guess the priests did look at the complexion of the child, although I thought
> all newborns looked the same (reddish) and didn't take on color until they were
> older.
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
Here's a link that explains how to type non-English characters on a mac:
http://ml.hss.cmu.edu/mlrc/links/keyboardhelp.html
Karr
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
alvaradj@comcast.net
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 5:57 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Racial discrepancy in baptism records
Thanks to members Maureen and Emilie for the very interesting info on race
assignment.
Jaime. PS also thanks for the info on the ~. My Mac (running Windows) does
not want to recognize
the command.
My ancestors have been traced to this area of Jalisco. So far I have Miguel Mora born in La Barca in 1882-1963. His father was Jose Miguel Mora born in 1855 in Jamay, Jalisco. His father was Jose Maria Mora born about 1831 in Ocotlan.
I am submitting the following for whatever input/help the group can offer. All from Jerez.
Joseph Phelipe de Jesus Gonzales Gallegos, Christening 19 Feb 1764 Jerez, Jerez de Garcia Salinas, Zacatecas Mex, father Fernando Gonzales, mother Barbara Sebastiana Gallegos, Source Batch No C600803, Source Call No 0439846
My Aguinaga family crossed at El Paso, Texas on 12 July 1918. My
grandmother Ysabel Rodriquez, my uncle Juan Aguinaga , age five, and
Great-grandfather, Juan Guerra Aguinaga, his wife Maria Cruz Ortiz Bonilla
Hello Everyone,
I am looking for the parents or any info on Diego Diaz Montanez de Sandi and Juana Josepha Albares Tostado, who were married Jan 13, 1737 in Nochistlan.
I found in the LDS files a Juana Maria Alvares Tostado born 1721 Jalostotitlan, parents: Lucas Alvarez Tostado and Apolonia Fernandez Cordero. But I am not certain if it is the Juana I am looking for.
.......Sorry, they were married in Teocaltiche.
Sofia
I am grateful for the information I have gotten from the group. Thanks to Member Sally for giving me info to carry my line forward. The following is provided for any comments, suggestions, corrections, leads etc.
My great-grandfather's grandfather Jose Lorenso Santoyo (born abt. 1775) was son of Joseph (Manuel?) Santoyo and Maria Josefa Diaz (de Leon?). I have not been able to find Jose Lorenso's birth certificate, but in his marriage (11 may 1808, San Jose de Ojuelos, Jal) to Maria Josefa Masias the parents of both are listed. In a search of Jose Lorenso's siblings I found the following individuals whom I believe, by the names of the parents, the timeline (1770-1802) and the places (all localities linked to Cienega de Mata & Ojuelos), to be siblings.
Jaime,
I have a suggestion- in case no one has the film. Mail in a completed form which available on the familysearch.org website. For $2.00 per record I have received paper copies of microfilm entries within two weeks of mailing. Go to the website, look to the right in "Start Your Family History". Next find the link "Forms" and click on it. On the next screen scroll down to "Request for Photocopies", Item #31831. You have your choice: type info online, or print a hard copy, complete and mail it. I think it's a great solution to waiting for several films to be mailed.
David, Albany CA
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jaime Alvarado
>Sent: Jul 18, 2008 10:51 AM
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family Santoyo-Diaz (de Leon?) Ojuelos-Cienega de Mata
>
>
>My great-grandfather's grandfather Jose Lorenso Santoyo (born abt. 1775) was son of Joseph (Manuel?) Santoyo and Maria Josefa Diaz (de Leon?). I have not been able to find Jose Lorenso's birth certificate, but in his marriage (11 may 1808, San Jose de Ojuelos, Jal) to Maria Josefa Masias the parents of both are listed. In a search of Jose Lorenso's siblings I found the following individuals whom I believe, by the names of the parents, the timeline (1770-1802) and the places (all localities linked to Cienega de Mata & Ojuelos), to be siblings.
>1. Juan Joseph Santoyo Dias. baptized 17 May 1772, Senor San Jose, Ojuelos. Son of Joseph Santoyo and Maria Josefa Dias. Batch C602501 film 0639958. 2. Jose Alberto Santoyo Dias. baptized 22 Jun 1785, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos. Son of Jose Manuel Santoyo&Maria Josefa Dias. batch number C607042 film 640153.
>In addition there are seven marriages all in microfilm M602326 0641016. 3. Maria Paulina Santollo, Born in Letras. Daughter of Josse Manuel Santollo & Maria Josefa Dias. M. Ramon Martines Soto Mallor, 28 Nov 1787, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos M602326 0641016.
>4. Maria Jossefa Santollo. Daughter of Josse Manuel Santollo & Maria Jossefa Dias de Leon. M. Josse de Santiago de la Rosa. 9 Oct 1788. Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos. M602326 0641016.
>5. Jose Antonio Santoyo. b. Puesto de Letras. Son of Jose Santoyo and Maria Josefa Diaz. M. Gertrudis de Lira. 10 May 1794. Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos.
>M602326 0641016.
>6. Maria Josefa Santollo. b. in San Miguel. Daughter of Jose Manuel Santollo & Maria Josefa Dias. M. (2nd marriage?) to Jose Desiderio Campos. 6 May 1795. Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos.
>7. Maria Anastacia Santoyo. b. San Miguel. daughter of Jose Santoyo & Maria Josefa Diaz. M. to Jose Luciano Campos Lopez. 3 Feb 1796. Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos. M602326 0641016.
>8. Jose Policarpo Santoyo. b. Ombligo. Son of Jose Manuel Santoyo & Maria Josefa Dias. m. to Maria Del Refugio Aranda. 19 Sept 1802. Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos. M602326 0641016.
>9. Maria Rafaela Santollo, B. San Miguel del Duraznillo. Daughter of Jose Santollo and Maria Josefa Diaz. M. to Jose Francisco de Lira. 24 Nov 1802, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos M602326 0641016.
>I would expect that the records 1&2 (christening) would be the most useful. Hopefully the names of the grandparents are listed helping confirm all these individuals as the same family. The name Jose (Joseph or Josse) Manuel in combination with Santoyo (Santollo) with Maria Josefa Dias (or Diaz) or Dias de Leon, indicates that there is a good chance that is the case. Does anyone has any of these films on loan, particularly the christenings to solve this question? It would be a great help.
>Thanks, Jaime
>
>
Thanks for your suggestion to request the photocopies of microfilm records. I had that in mind, but since it takes about a month to get them back, and I was hoping to move faster if somoeone had films: C602501/0639958 or C607042/640153 on permanent loan. Recently I found a Maria Josepha de la Santisima Trinidad Dias de Leon christened 11 Feb 1755 in Cienega de Mata, daughter of Andres Dias de Leon and Fca Antonia Baez, that could be the same Maria Josefa Dias married to Jose Santoyo that I mentioned. If the grandparents are listed in the baptisms of either Juan Jose or Jose Alberto Santoyo, it would save me some precious time.
Jaime R. Alvarado
Valle de Guadalupe Meeting