Dr.mt

Dispensation Records - Bishphoric Marriage Records

Published by arturoramos –
Forums
Genealogy Research

The film below is from the Sagrada Mitra at the bishphoric of
Guadalajara and is the same series of marriage films that Luz
Montejano based her book on. Thus I would imagine it would have
similar information, i.e. all of the testimony and evidence and then

Comments

Published by longsjourney – Thu, 2007-02-22 00:30 | Permalink

Comment

Arturo, when I order this film > Matrimonios 1829-1830, 1850-1860, 1896 FHL INTL Film 168670, is it Guadalajara, Jalisco or does it read bishphoric of Guadalajara Jalisco? I'm not familiar with these films..

Linda

Comment

Arturo, I answered my own question.. I looked up the Guadalajara records and see what you're talking about. I will order the film and see what comes of it!
thank you for another chance to find these elusive ancestors.
Linda

Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:
Arturo, when I order this film > Matrimonios 1829-1830, 1850-1860, 1896 FHL INTL Film 168670, is it Guadalajara, Jalisco or does it read bishphoric of Guadalajara Jalisco? I'm not familiar with these films..

Linda

Dispensation records for Zacatecas

Published by longsjourney –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Are there specific films for Zacatecas where the dispensation records that are in La Sagrada Mitra can be found? The book is very expensive and not really available as far as I can find. I would like to know if I can order the films the records are taken from from the LDS history center. I'm interested in the Jerez Zacatecas area's since so many early families intermarried. I've done the marriage information records and hey say when they are related but not who that person was 3 or 4 generations ago who was the trunk.

Comments

Published by arturoramos – Wed, 2007-02-21 10:47 | Permalink

Comment

Linda:

We got a bit off topic but I was rereading your message about you trying to find the marrige dispensation for the coupe Santiago Saldivar and Juliana Caldera. They were married in 1853, just three years before the new bishphoric of Zacatecas was formed so their dispensation would have been given by the bishop of Guadalajara.

While Luz Montejano stopped extracting around 1750, the dispensation records for later years are filmed. For some reason there are no films for 1853 however other than possibly:

Matrimonios 1829-1830, 1850-1860, 1896 (faltan años) FHL INTL Film
168670

or

Comment

Arturo, I do have the marriage and the marriage information records for this couple, it's the actual dispensation record I'm looking for in the hopes that it names the trunk that would take me back another generation on my branch of the Caldera family. Any idea what film that would be? I have never ordered a film for actual dispensations and didn't know they existed. I always thought the information record and dispensation record were one and the same!

Boy we do learn on this site!
thank you, Linda

arturoramos wrote:

Linda:

We got a bit off topic but I was rereading your message about you trying to find the marrige dispensation for the coupe Santiago Saldivar and Juliana Caldera. They were married in 1853, just three years before the new bishphoric of Zacatecas was formed so their dispensation would have been given by the bishop of Guadalajara.

While Luz Montejano stopped extracting around 1750, the dispensation records for later years are filmed. For some reason there are no films for 1853 however other than possibly:

Matrimonios 1829-1830, 1850-1860, 1896 (faltan años) FHL INTL Film
168670

or

Published by arturoramos – Mon, 2007-02-19 16:32 | Permalink

Comment

Linda:

Dispensations were given by the bishop and were therefore kept chronologically for the entire bishphoric of Guadalajara, which included for the first couple of centuries everything north of Guanajuato, including Zacatecas, Nuevo Leon, Durango, Texas, Coahuila, etc.

The book is available through George Farias' bookstore online at:

http://www.borderlandsbooks.com/searchdb.asp

Though he seems to be out of stock at the moment. He reorders regularly. I had to wait a month or so when I bought mine.

Anyhow, Luz Montejano's book only covers the dispensations through about 1750 so the dispensation you mention would not be there. The only Calderas listed are:

Ana de Santiago Caldera
Cathalina Caldera
Cayetano Caldera
Nicolas Caldera
Nicolas de la Cruz Caldera
Pablo Caldera

Comment

Thank you Arturo, are any of these Caldera's from Jerez Zacatecas? Do you think it's a good investment for me as far as records from Jerez go?
Linda

arturoramos wrote:

Linda:

Dispensations were given by the bishop and were therefore kept chronologically for the entire bishphoric of Guadalajara, which included for the first couple of centuries everything north of Guanajuato, including Zacatecas, Nuevo Leon, Durango, Texas, Coahuila, etc.

The book is available through George Farias' bookstore online at:

http://www.borderlandsbooks.com/searchdb.asp

Though he seems to be out of stock at the moment. He reorders regularly. I had to wait a month or so when I bought mine.

Anyhow, Luz Montejano's book only covers the dispensations through about 1750 so the dispensation you mention would not be there. The only Calderas listed are:

Ana de Santiago Caldera
Cathalina Caldera
Cayetano Caldera
Nicolas Caldera
Nicolas de la Cruz Caldera
Pablo Caldera

Comment

Linda:

I believe that Susana Leniski has compiled a pretty detailed descendancy of Maria Cid Caldera based mostly on marriage dispensations from Luz Montejano's book and has posted it in her genealogy folder. So to the extent that there are Calderas from Zacatecas they are likely to be included there. I think most of the Calderas are from around Jerez since that is where Pedro Cid Caldera and his siblings lived and most people with that surname I imagine are descended from that group or were named after someone from that group (i.e. slaves or indigenous servants who took the name).

Miguel Caldera I believe had only one daughter named Isabel (illegitimate) who married and had two children whose surname I believe was De La Torre so his sister Maria's children (especially Pedro Cid Caldera) seem to be the legacy of that family as far as names go.

Comment

Hi Arturo, I agree and Ed Serros was kind enough to send me a copy of the record. My biggest problem is not being able to read Spanish without the online translater.. but, it's getting better year by year..

When I bought and read Mexico's Miguel Caldera it talks about the Indio leaders who took his name, right up to actually calling themselves Miguel Caldera out of respect for him. I do believe my 3 Caldera grandmothers, all from El Durazno, Jerez Zacatecas, all claimed Espanol but I also found records in that same town who were Indio so the decendants of both the Espanol and Indio lines are there and in Boca de San Pedro, Jerez Zacatecas. I'm sure they are all over Zacatecas and San Luis Potosi but with so many records missing during the mid to late 1700's in Jerez it's a real challenge. In El Durazno, they were not listed as slaves, only Indio so I'd like to believe they were from the Guachichiles/ Chichimeca Indio leaders, late 1600's, lines listed in the book. 12 Chichimeca chiefs went with Miguel Caldera to Mexico City where they recieved gifts and promises, from some of these chiefs decend other Indio Caldera's as well.

I think one of the most interesting things when I went to El Durazno, Jerez in 2003 I met almost everyone in El Durazno, population today of abt 250. Almost everyone there carries Caldera lineage. I found one thing in common with that lineage, green eyes! I've never seen so many shades of green eyes and these are the decendants of the people who've lived in that rancho since late 1600's so the lines are pretty much mixed with the same families over and over for 400 years. I was amazed how much I looked like them right down to the green eyes. I went to a wedding while I was there and they told me I was a daughter of El Durazno, by blood and by looks. It was nice to "go home."
thanks again, Linda in Everett

arturoramos wrote:

Linda:

I believe that Susana Leniski has compiled a pretty detailed descendancy of Maria Cid Caldera based mostly on marriage dispensations from Luz Montejano's book and has posted it in her genealogy folder. So to the extent that there are Calderas from Zacatecas they are likely to be included there. I think most of the Calderas are from around Jerez since that is where Pedro Cid Caldera and his siblings lived and most people with that surname I imagine are descended from that group or were named after someone from that group (i.e. slaves or indigenous servants who took the name).

Miguel Caldera I believe had only one daughter named Isabel (illegitimate) who married and had two children whose surname I believe was De La Torre so his sister Maria's children (especially Pedro Cid Caldera) seem to be the legacy of that family as far as names go.

Comment

Linda:

As you may know, there are several books in the Inmaculada parrish in Jerez that were never filmed. We have been trying to lobby Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia to get a team to go back down and get those filmed along with the remains of the oldest books in nearby Colotlan, Jalisco. Perhaps if you add your name to the petition it will move it along.

Comment

Arturo, I was not aware there are more records that have not been recorded. How do I add my name to this list you're talking abt? I'm not aware of it. Who is Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia?

Do you know what kind of records they are or what years they cover? Has anyone been able to access them when they were in Jerez or Colotlan or are there copies located somewhere else? I'm under the impression the records were not filmed in the smaller towns but at the place the copies were sent. Is this correct? How exciting!
Linda

arturoramos wrote:

Linda:

As you may know, there are several books in the Inmaculada parrish in Jerez that were never filmed. We have been trying to lobby Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia to get a team to go back down and get those filmed along with the remains of the oldest books in nearby Colotlan, Jalisco. Perhaps if you add your name to the petition it will move it along.

Comment

Oh, yes, exciting! I would love to add my name to the petition, also, as I have been finding that I have some ancestors coming up from the Colotlán and El Refugio areas in Jalisco. I think they're so close to Momax that people could go in either direction for services. Where do I sign?!?! :-)

Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote: Arturo, I was not aware there are more records that have not been recorded. How do I add my name to this list you're talking abt? I'm not aware of it. Who is Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia?

Do you know what kind of records they are or what years they cover? Has anyone been able to access them when they were in Jerez or Colotlan or are there copies located somewhere else? I'm under the impression the records were not filmed in the smaller towns but at the place the copies were sent. Is this correct? How exciting!
Linda

arturoramos wrote:

Linda:

As you may know, there are several books in the Inmaculada parrish in Jerez that were never filmed. We have been trying to lobby Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia to get a team to go back down and get those filmed along with the remains of the oldest books in nearby Colotlan, Jalisco. Perhaps if you add your name to the petition it will move it along.

Comment

What petition? I will sign on. This Samuel is from Monterrey, correct?

Mickey

-----Original Message-----
From: arturo.ramos2@gmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 3:04 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Missing records in Jerez

Linda:

As you may know, there are several books in the Inmaculada parrish in Jerez that
were never filmed. We have been trying to lobby Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia
to get a team to go back down and get those filmed along with the remains of the
oldest books in nearby Colotlan, Jalisco. Perhaps if you add your name to the
petition it will move it along.

Comment

Everybody interested in this region:

I apologize, I should have been more clear, there is no physical petition for filming of the unfilmned books in Jerez and Colotlan, there is only an informal lobbying of Sameuel Sanchez (who lives in Monterrey and is a member of this group) to push for the filming of these records. Obviously, there are costs involved in this and therefore it is much easier said than done, but if there is a core of people that would really like to have access to these records, perhaps we can do something.

The first thing to do would be to contact Samuel and simply let him know that you think this is an important project. We may eventually have to do more than that but I know that the Colotlan records are not available to the public at the church and they are already deteriorated so the longer we wait the worse off we are. These are precious documents that need to be preserved.

Please look up Samuel and write him a note about this if you are genuinely interested in having it done.

Comment

Arturo, does Samuel speak English or should I have my letter translated into Spanish for him. Do you know if they are making monetary collections for this project?
Linda in Everett

arturoramos wrote:

Everybody interested in this region:

I apologize, I should have been more clear, there is no physical petition for filming of the unfilmned books in Jerez and Colotlan, there is only an informal lobbying of Sameuel Sanchez (who lives in Monterrey and is a member of this group) to push for the filming of these records. Obviously, there are costs involved in this and therefore it is much easier said than done, but if there is a core of people that would really like to have access to these records, perhaps we can do something.

The first thing to do would be to contact Samuel and simply let him know that you think this is an important project. We may eventually have to do more than that but I know that the Colotlan records are not available to the public at the church and they are already deteriorated so the longer we wait the worse off we are. These are precious documents that need to be preserved.

Please look up Samuel and write him a note about this if you are genuinely interested in having it done.

Comment

Linda:

I imagine that Samuel reads English but I would be more than happy to translate a letter for you if you feel it is more appropriate to communicate with him in Spanish. Samuel runs the Sociedad Geanalogica del Norte de Mexico and is very involved in the Mexican LDS genealogy projects.

As far as seeing the records, I have seen the Colotlan book though I was prohibited from touching or opening it by the priest. Esteban Valdes Salazar has transcribed large parts of it and is very familiar with it. It is basically the remnants of a number of older Franciscan Convent books that have had holes punched through them and put into a binder... apparently the pages that were too damaged were discarded... how awful!

I know that Leonardo de la Torre Berumen has seen and transcribed many of the Jerez books and Susana Leniski has had the parrish archivist inventory them all for her.

Guadalajara Research

Published by Corrine Ardoin –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I was reminded about another thing to keep in mind when researching
Guadalajara. The old barrios, or neighborhoods, were made into "colonias,"
so that is another way they divided up the city for census purposes,

Story of La Llorona

Published by Corrine Ardoin –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

Has anyone heard of the story "La Llorona?" I found it in a book, though it
doesn't say which part of Mexico it originated from. Apparently, it is
about a woman who drowns her own children in a river to keep their father

Comments

Published by Marionicia – Sun, 2007-02-18 11:45 | Permalink

Comment

Did I see La Llorona or an angel? when I was about five years old I got lost from my ranch house in Ahualulco De Mercado, Jalisco. I went down a path to the river, merely a stream from the biger one, with my family unaware. My mother noticed my absence and all they went yelling looking for me. They found me crying in the shore, about 200 metros from the house. What I remember is I was determined to get into the water but a lady dressed in a white and long dress stop me, she told me not to do it. she was standing sort of floating above a bank in the middle of the stream and his arms were up open like she wanted to embrace me. I cried because at that moment I thougt she was La Llorona as I did remember my mother used to tell her story, lhat lady I saw had a long black hair, that was a the feature of her apearence I remember the most vividly.

Corrine Ardoin escribió:
Has anyone heard of the story "La Llorona?" I found it in a book, though it
doesn't say which part of Mexico it originated from. Apparently, it is
about a woman who drowns her own children in a river to keep their father
from taking them from her, then cannot get into heaven until she recovers
their souls, crying and wailing as she searches the riverbanks in the night
with her bony fingers. One of those "Golden Arm" spooky stories you tell
children. Anyways, I was wondering if anyone had heard of it and knew where
it originated. I had recently seen a movie on television where one man has
three girlfriends and they find out about it and become very angry. He
starts having frightening visions of La Llorona coming after him, which made
me think it was about a story from Mexico. I soon found the story, but it
does not say which part of Mexico it is from.

Corrine Ardoin

Comment

I remember when I was 6 or 7 and my family and I lived in Zacatecas for a year so that we kids could get the "cultural experience." We had traveled to the nearby rancho of Los Ramos (See map I uploaded to the maps sections titled, "Los Sedanos.") to visit family friends (which I recently found out throught Family Search are distant relatives, also!) who killed a pig for us to make "tripas," "moronga," and, or course, TAMALES! Anywho, I remember I had fallen asleep on a woman's lap in the room adjoining the kitchen that had no door that faced a creek right across and a few feet down. I remember waking up to the most forlorn crying I had ever heard...It sounded like a sad wail and it was coming from the creek. I remember hearing the women that were making tamales in the kitchen crying out in shock. I either saw or heard the women saying they saw a ball of fire floating above the creek. What's certain is that I heard that sad, sad crying. It was the most distressed and
distressing cry...Now, you might say I dreamt all of this or it was my childish imagination, but how could a roomful of adult women have experienced the same things?...Strange, strange...Maybe the story of "La Llorona" is just so embedded in our folkore that it's always on our minds when in Mexico...Who knows, but it was so strange...

http://www.literacynet.org/lp/hperspectives/llorona.html (This is the version I had heard.)

http://www.lallorona.com/La_index.html

Leticia Leon wrote:
Did I see La Llorona or an angel? when I was about five years old I got lost from my ranch house in Ahualulco De Mercado, Jalisco. I went down a path to the river, merely a stream from the biger one, with my family unaware. My mother noticed my absence and all they went yelling looking for me. They found me crying in the shore, about 200 metros from the house. What I remember is I was determined to get into the water but a lady dressed in a white and long dress stop me, she told me not to do it. she was standing sort of floating above a bank in the middle of the stream and his arms were up open like she wanted to embrace me. I cried because at that moment I thougt she was La Llorona as I did remember my mother used to tell her story, lhat lady I saw had a long black hair, that was a the feature of her apearence I remember the most vividly.

Comment

I think what the women saw floating above the creek is what is called "balled lightening". Also, the wind does strange things around water and the vegetation around it. There are gases that escape such areas, such as methane. We named our place up here in the Northwest "Lira del Bosque" (my Spanish friend translated "Forest Lyre" for me). We often hear what sounds like soft music in the tall evergreens, but when the wind is blowing as hard as it was today when I went out to get the mail it sounded like freight trains or the roar of semis passing by; it was frightening, and I could hardly wait to get back in the house. The sound was like thundering growls from a monster, very hard to describe. Although our place is surrounded by water (you can't walk too far from the house without falling into a pond, lake or creek) we have never seen the "balled lightening" or methane flames.

In Santa Cruz, CA my Spanish friend had the balled lightening phenomenon in her house. Once a ball of lightening came in and settled itself in a cast iron frying pan. Fearing it would cause a fire, her son picked up the pan to extinguish the flame in the sink, and the flame jumped out of the frying pan onto the floor and disappeared into a crack in the tile floor! They were also frequently awakened by strange sounds in that house, too. I once slept in that house in their guest room, and all I heard was the sound of my hostess coughing all night, and the sound of her purring cat who had climbed in bed with me and settled herself in my long hair. Anyway, I hope those were the sounds I heard. Oooooh!

Emilie in Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
From: La Plus Belle
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Story of La Llorona/I think I saw her

I remember when I was 6 or 7 and my family and I lived in Zacatecas for a year so that we kids could get the "cultural experience." We had traveled to the nearby rancho of Los Ramos (See map I uploaded to the maps sections titled, "Los Sedanos.") to visit family friends (which I recently found out throught Family Search are distant relatives, also!) who killed a pig for us to make "tripas," "moronga," and, or course, TAMALES! Anywho, I remember I had fallen asleep on a woman's lap in the room adjoining the kitchen that had no door that faced a creek right across and a few feet down. I remember waking up to the most forlorn crying I had ever heard...It sounded like a sad wail and it was coming from the creek. I remember hearing the women that were making tamales in the kitchen crying out in shock. I either saw or heard the women saying they saw a ball of fire floating above the creek. What's certain is that I heard that sad, sad crying. It was the most distressed and
distressing cry...Now, you might say I dreamt all of this or it was my childish imagination, but how could a roomful of adult women have experienced the same things?...Strange, strange...Maybe the story of "La Llorona" is just so embedded in our folkore that it's always on our minds when in Mexico...Who knows, but it was so strange...

http://www.literacynet.org/lp/hperspectives/llorona.html (This is the version I had heard.)

http://www.lallorona.com/La_index.html

Leticia Leon > wrote:
Did I see La Llorona or an angel? when I was about five years old I got lost from my ranch house in Ahualulco De Mercado, Jalisco. I went down a path to the river, merely a stream from the biger one, with my family unaware. My mother noticed my absence and all they went yelling looking for me. They found me crying in the shore, about 200 metros from the house. What I remember is I was determined to get into the water but a lady dressed in a white and long dress stop me, she told me not to do it. she was standing sort of floating above a bank in the middle of the stream and his arms were up open like she wanted to embrace me. I cried because at that moment I thougt she was La Llorona as I did remember my mother used to tell her story, lhat lady I saw had a long black hair, that was a the feature of her apearence I remember the most vividly.

Comment

OK, I am so glad you gave me an alternative explanation in case I ever see one of those fireballs. Eek! I just found out, however, after talking w/my g'ma who was there that night that we heard "la Llorona," that there was no fireball (I guess I got that from someone else's story!), but there was that horrible crying. She says that she and the other women were out in the "patio" smearing the corn husks for the tamales when they heard the wails. They all ran to the kitchen, leaving the food out, and someone yelled, "Close the doorl!" to which someone else replied, "WHAT door?!?!" There was no door. LOL! Anyway, whatever was making that lound wailing sound was real. I mean, it wasn't our imagination. I wonder what it could've been, though. I guess it makes for a good Llorona story...

La Llorona

Todos me dicen El Negro, Llorona, negro pero cariñoso.
Yo soy como el chile verde, Llorona, picante pero sabroso.

Salías del templo un dia llorona cuando al pasar yo te ví.
Hermoso huipil llevabas, Llorona, que la Virgen te creí.

Ay, de mi Llorona, Llorona, Llorona llevame al río.
Tápame con tu rebozo, Llorona, que ya me muero de frío.

Ay de mi Llorona, Llorona, Llorona de ayer y hoy.
Ayer maravilla fui, Llorona, y ahora ni sombra soy.

Ay, de mi Llorona, Llorona, Llorona de azul celeste.
Aunque la vida me cueste Llorona, no dejaré de quererte.

Ay, de mi llorona, Llorona, Llorona llevame al mar.
A ver a los buzeadores, Llorona, que perlas van a sacar.

Dicen que no tengo duelo, Llorona porque no me ven llorar.
Hay muertos que no hacen ruido, y es mas grande su penar.

Pregúntale al sacamuela, Llorona, cual es el mayor dolor.
Si al que le sacan la muela o al que le roban su amor.
Si porque te quiero quieres, Llorona, quieres que te quieres más
Si ya te he dado la vida, Llorona, ¿Qué más quieres? ¿Quieres más?

Emilie Garcia wrote:
I think what the women saw floating above the creek is what is called "balled lightening". Also, the wind does strange things around water and the vegetation around it. There are gases that escape such areas, such as methane. We named our place up here in the Northwest "Lira del Bosque" (my Spanish friend translated "Forest Lyre" for me). We often hear what sounds like soft music in the tall evergreens, but when the wind is blowing as hard as it was today when I went out to get the mail it sounded like freight trains or the roar of semis passing by; it was frightening, and I could hardly wait to get back in the house. The sound was like thundering growls from a monster, very hard to describe. Although our place is surrounded by water (you can't walk too far from the house without falling into a pond, lake or creek) we have never seen the "balled lightening" or methane flames.

Comment

La Plus (what is your name?),

I think that nature creates its own musical instruments, don't you think? People hear strange sounds always near water. Remember that sounds are just vibrations, like wind skidding over water, pushing through vegetation like reeds in rivers and through the branches of my hundred foot tall evergreens. This is how lyres and flutes work through vibrations. What makes us frightened when we hear these sounds out in nature is that we must have a built-in primeval reaction to screeching or sounds that sound like wailing because that was to warn other people of danger from a predator, etc. Even though I understand these phenomenons, I never fail to have that reaction that I must flee from such sounds.

That is a nice poem you included. I will show it to my husband, who is more familiar with the story in Spanish.

Emilie Garcia in Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
From: La Plus Belle
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Story of La Llorona/I think I saw her

OK, I am so glad you gave me an alternative explanation in case I ever see one of those fireballs. Eek! I just found out, however, after talking w/my g'ma who was there that night that we heard "la Llorona," that there was no fireball (I guess I got that from someone else's story!), but there was that horrible crying. She says that she and the other women were out in the "patio" smearing the corn husks for the tamales when they heard the wails. They all ran to the kitchen, leaving the food out, and someone yelled, "Close the doorl!" to which someone else replied, "WHAT door?!?!" There was no door. LOL! Anyway, whatever was making that lound wailing sound was real. I mean, it wasn't our imagination. I wonder what it could've been, though. I guess it makes for a good Llorona story...

La Llorona

Todos me dicen El Negro, Llorona, negro pero cariñoso.
Yo soy como el chile verde, Llorona, picante pero sabroso.

Salías del templo un dia llorona cuando al pasar yo te ví.
Hermoso huipil llevabas, Llorona, que la Virgen te creí.

Ay, de mi Llorona, Llorona, Llorona llevame al río.
Tápame con tu rebozo, Llorona, que ya me muero de frío.

Ay de mi Llorona, Llorona, Llorona de ayer y hoy.
Ayer maravilla fui, Llorona, y ahora ni sombra soy.

Ay, de mi Llorona, Llorona, Llorona de azul celeste.
Aunque la vida me cueste Llorona, no dejaré de quererte.

Ay, de mi llorona, Llorona, Llorona llevame al mar.
A ver a los buzeadores, Llorona, que perlas van a sacar.

Dicen que no tengo duelo, Llorona porque no me ven llorar.
Hay muertos que no hacen ruido, y es mas grande su penar.

Pregúntale al sacamuela, Llorona, cual es el mayor dolor.
Si al que le sacan la muela o al que le roban su amor.
Si porque te quiero quieres, Llorona, quieres que te quieres más
Si ya te he dado la vida, Llorona, ¿Qué más quieres? ¿Quieres más?

Emilie Garcia > wrote:
I think what the women saw floating above the creek is what is called "balled lightening". Also, the wind does strange things around water and the vegetation around it. There are gases that escape such areas, such as methane. We named our place up here in the Northwest "Lira del Bosque" (my Spanish friend translated "Forest Lyre" for me). We often hear what sounds like soft music in the tall evergreens, but when the wind is blowing as hard as it was today when I went out to get the mail it sounded like freight trains or the roar of semis passing by; it was frightening, and I could hardly wait to get back in the house. The sound was like thundering growls from a monster, very hard to describe. Although our place is surrounded by water (you can't walk too far from the house without falling into a pond, lake or creek) we have never seen the "balled lightening" or methane flames.

Comment

I guess it's like when you hear a cat yowl and sometimes it sounds like a crying baby. It's a CREEPY sound when you hear it in the middle of the night! BTW, the "poem" is actually a mexican folk song and is kind of sad to hear it. They sing a version of it in the movie "Frida" with Salma Hayek.

Cristina (La Plus Belle means "The Most Beautiful" in French. What a joke! Ha, ha!) :-)

Emilie Garcia wrote:
La Plus (what is your name?),

I think that nature creates its own musical instruments, don't you think? People hear strange sounds always near water. Remember that sounds are just vibrations, like wind skidding over water, pushing through vegetation like reeds in rivers and through the branches of my hundred foot tall evergreens. This is how lyres and flutes work through vibrations. What makes us frightened when we hear these sounds out in nature is that we must have a built-in primeval reaction to screeching or sounds that sound like wailing because that was to warn other people of danger from a predator, etc. Even though I understand these phenomenons, I never fail to have that reaction that I must flee from such sounds.

That is a nice poem you included. I will show it to my husband, who is more familiar with the story in Spanish.

Emilie Garcia in Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
From: La Plus Belle
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Story of La Llorona/I think I saw her

OK, I am so glad you gave me an alternative explanation in case I ever see one of those fireballs. Eek! I just found out, however, after talking w/my g'ma who was there that night that we heard "la Llorona," that there was no fireball (I guess I got that from someone else's story!), but there was that horrible crying. She says that she and the other women were out in the "patio" smearing the corn husks for the tamales when they heard the wails. They all ran to the kitchen, leaving the food out, and someone yelled, "Close the doorl!" to which someone else replied, "WHAT door?!?!" There was no door. LOL! Anyway, whatever was making that lound wailing sound was real. I mean, it wasn't our imagination. I wonder what it could've been, though. I guess it makes for a good Llorona story...

La Llorona

Todos me dicen El Negro, Llorona, negro pero cariñoso.
Yo soy como el chile verde, Llorona, picante pero sabroso.

Salías del templo un dia llorona cuando al pasar yo te ví.
Hermoso huipil llevabas, Llorona, que la Virgen te creí.

Ay, de mi Llorona, Llorona, Llorona llevame al río.
Tápame con tu rebozo, Llorona, que ya me muero de frío.

Ay de mi Llorona, Llorona, Llorona de ayer y hoy.
Ayer maravilla fui, Llorona, y ahora ni sombra soy.

Ay, de mi Llorona, Llorona, Llorona de azul celeste.
Aunque la vida me cueste Llorona, no dejaré de quererte.

Ay, de mi llorona, Llorona, Llorona llevame al mar.
A ver a los buzeadores, Llorona, que perlas van a sacar.

Dicen que no tengo duelo, Llorona porque no me ven llorar.
Hay muertos que no hacen ruido, y es mas grande su penar.

Pregúntale al sacamuela, Llorona, cual es el mayor dolor.
Si al que le sacan la muela o al que le roban su amor.
Si porque te quiero quieres, Llorona, quieres que te quieres más
Si ya te he dado la vida, Llorona, ¿Qué más quieres? ¿Quieres más?

Emilie Garcia > wrote:
I think what the women saw floating above the creek is what is called "balled lightening". Also, the wind does strange things around water and the vegetation around it. There are gases that escape such areas, such as methane. We named our place up here in the Northwest "Lira del Bosque" (my Spanish friend translated "Forest Lyre" for me). We often hear what sounds like soft music in the tall evergreens, but when the wind is blowing as hard as it was today when I went out to get the mail it sounded like freight trains or the roar of semis passing by; it was frightening, and I could hardly wait to get back in the house. The sound was like thundering growls from a monster, very hard to describe. Although our place is surrounded by water (you can't walk too far from the house without falling into a pond, lake or creek) we have never seen the "balled lightening" or methane flames.

Comment

Okay Beautiful, Like Emilie, I'd like to know your "other" name too! Wish I had a neat
nick name..

Linda in Everett

La Plus Belle wrote:
I guess it's like when you hear a cat yowl and sometimes it sounds like a crying baby. It's a CREEPY sound when you hear it in the middle of the night! BTW, the "poem" is actually a mexican folk song and is kind of sad to hear it. They sing a version of it in the movie "Frida" with Salma Hayek.

Cristina (La Plus Belle means "The Most Beautiful" in French. What a joke! Ha, ha!) :-)

Emilie Garcia wrote:
La Plus (what is your name?),

---------------------------------
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

Comment

Opps! just noticed you did say Cristina, thank you ..

Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote: Okay Beautiful, Like Emilie, I'd like to know your "other" name too! Wish I had a neat
nick name..

Linda in Everett

La Plus Belle wrote:
I guess it's like when you hear a cat yowl and sometimes it sounds like a crying baby. It's a CREEPY sound when you hear it in the middle of the night! BTW, the "poem" is actually a mexican folk song and is kind of sad to hear it. They sing a version of it in the movie "Frida" with Salma Hayek.

Cristina (La Plus Belle means "The Most Beautiful" in French. What a joke! Ha, ha!) :-)

Emilie Garcia wrote:
La Plus (what is your name?),

---------------------------------
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

Comment

I'm assuming you're Cristina Haro Avila de Pedroza?
I was looking at your surname list and find it amazing we have so many in common and yet not one single line related even though they are from Zacatecas and Jalisco.. I guess if we get back far enough there will be someone in common.

By the way, I did just update my genealogy on ancestry.com but don't like there new format...

Linda in Everett

Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:
Opps! just noticed you did say Cristina, thank you ..

---------------------------------
It's here! Your new message!
Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.

Comment

You have reminded me that, when I was a little girl, there was a creek that ran at the edge of town and the people who lived there would often have La Llorona sightings. They said they heard her wailing and doing all sorts of things. Now, I finally know what they were referring to!

Published by makas_nc – Sun, 2007-02-18 11:15 | Permalink

Comment

Lots of variations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Llorona

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Corrine Ardoin wrote:
> Has anyone heard of the story "La Llorona?" I found it in a book, though it
> doesn't say which part of Mexico it originated from. Apparently, it is
> about a woman who drowns her own children in a river to keep their father
> from taking them from her, then cannot get into heaven until she recovers
> their souls, crying and wailing as she searches the riverbanks in the night
> with her bony fingers. One of those "Golden Arm" spooky stories you tell
> children. Anyways, I was wondering if anyone had heard of it and knew where
> it originated. I had recently seen a movie on television where one man has
> three girlfriends and they find out about it and become very angry. He
> starts having frightening visions of La Llorona coming after him, which made
> me think it was about a story from Mexico. I soon found the story, but it
> does not say which part of Mexico it is from.
>
> Corrine Ardoin
>

Comment

I've read that La Llorona would roam downtown Mexico City at night, during the Mexican Colonial era. However i think the legend is pre-Hispanic. According to tradition, there were several omens in México-Tenochtitlan regarding the coming of the Spaniards. One of them was the ghost of an Aztec goddess crying for her children, and where could she hide them (how could she protect the Aztecs from the Spaniards?).
Right now they are showing in Mexico a horror movie kind of based in La Llorona. The film is "Km 31" or "Kilómetro 31".

Comment

The story of a woman who kills her children for the love of a man seems to originate with Greek mythology, something the Colonial Spaniards, priests and soldiers and the educated class would have been familiar with, and perhaps told or read such stories to the indigenous people. In the "Odyssey", Medea kills the children she had with Jason (of Jason and the Argonauts) because he was leaving for his homeland in the ship the "Argo", going back to his wife. My husband tells me that his grandfather, who was born in Mexico in 1853 still had a copy of the tales of "1001 Arabian Nights" in Spanish, and that one of the stories he used to read to his grandchildren was "Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves". He also would tell stories of the Llorona, and of the specter of the creature with the horse's head. I bet kids had lots of nightmares then. I knew nothing of these stories until I started school.

Emilie in Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
From: victorianonavarro
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Story of La Llorona

I've read that La Llorona would roam downtown Mexico City at night, during the Mexican Colonial era. However i think the legend is pre-Hispanic. According to tradition, there were several omens in México-Tenochtitlan regarding the coming of the Spaniards. One of them was the ghost of an Aztec goddess crying for her children, and where could she hide them (how could she protect the Aztecs from the Spaniards?).
Right now they are showing in Mexico a horror movie kind of based in La Llorona. The film is "Km 31" or "Kilómetro 31".

Comment

I think this could be true, that the Spanish brought the story to Mexico way back when, because it seems that the story was told in various places, but another version I found originated with the Aztecs and their empire eventually covered quite a large portion of Mexico, so descendants and immigrants alike would have carried on this tradition of telling such a frightening story to keep children away from riverbanks, etc. so they would stay safe, like a boogey man story.

albums section

Published by longsjourney –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

I don't know who added the Casta's paintings but they are wonderful! A real eye opener to the dress and living standards of the day.

I've added a photo to my album (Linda Castanon-Long) of my grandmothers cousin, Juan Jose Mendez in a death photo drawn abt 1923 in Tamazula Jalisco Mexico. It gives an idea of the burial customs and dress of the day at that time.

Comments

Published by cavilah – Tue, 2007-02-20 14:45 | Permalink

Comment

Oh, well, that would be me. I'm glad you could appreciate the significance of those casta paintings, as I do! Yes, I agree with you about genealogy. Just recently I was thinking about that as I heard my grandmother tell a funny anecdote about her father (my ggf). He was born in Zacatecas along w/all of his siblings (save for an older half-brother born in Spain), but his eldest full brother decided to move to Mexico City. He tried to convince my ggf to move, also, but he refused saying he didn't want the family to spread out and separate. Well, one day my ggf decided to visit his brother for the 1st time in D.F. When the "criada" came out and asked who she should tell her "patrón" was there to see him. He told her, "Dile que soy un limosnero." She went upstairs and told her patrón and, suddenly, a woman poked her head out the window and said, "¡Pendeja! ¡Es mi hermano!" I was laughing so hard hearing my gma repeat that, but it helped me to visualize the scene and
how everyone was so "real" and they had the same quirks that we do. I'm so glad I started this search for my "familia" and finding or imagining their stories...

Comment

Catarina, I had to do an online translation for Limosnero so I'm learning and growing with your wonderful story..
Like you when I hear my Dad and his siblings talk about their grandparents and the stories they shared it makes them come alive for me. On the history part when my grandfathers sister, Paula Castanon said her grandparents, Juan Jose Castanon and Zeferina Mejia from Recodo, Jerez Zacatecas were killed by Indios around 1860 that really put a new face on things for me. It just never occurred to me they had Indian raids that late in Jerez.. and then again they could have just been bandits who happened to be Indio. Recodo disappeared by 1890 more or less so I guess it wasn't a good place to live!
glad you shared it.

Linda in Everett

La Plus Belle wrote:
Oh, well, that would be me. I'm glad you could appreciate the significance of those casta paintings, as I do! Yes, I agree with you about genealogy. Just recently I was thinking about that as I heard my grandmother tell a funny anecdote about her father (my ggf). He was born in Zacatecas along w/all of his siblings (save for an older half-brother born in Spain), but his eldest full brother decided to move to Mexico City. He tried to convince my ggf to move, also, but he refused saying he didn't want the family to spread out and separate. Well, one day my ggf decided to visit his brother for the 1st time in D.F. When the "criada" came out and asked who she should tell her "patrón" was there to see him. He told her, "Dile que soy un limosnero." She went upstairs and told her patrón and, suddenly, a woman poked her head out the window and said, "¡Pendeja! ¡Es mi hermano!" I was laughing so hard hearing my gma repeat that, but it helped me to visualize the scene and
how everyone was so "real" and they had the same quirks that we do. I'm so glad I started this search for my "familia" and finding or imagining their stories...

Translating Spanish to English

Published by longsjourney –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I tried using the online traslater but got no answer so I'm hoping on of the group can tell me what this means.

The record reads that birth registration was 5 Aug 1886 and birth date was "antier" at 8pm.. does that mean yesterday? So the birthdate would be 4 Aug 1886?

Comments

Published by aajay1073 – Tue, 2007-02-20 12:50 | Permalink

Comment

Linda,

I have seen many many twins with similar names, like:
Juan Refugio de Jesus and Juan Refugio de Jose
or
Jose Pedro and Pedro Jose

I have also seen twins with the exact same name. It doesn't mean that one twin died. They both could have survived.

A couple of years ago, when I was in Momax, a friend of my aunt, who worked in the local Munipical, was telling me about these two woman who were twins and were given the same name. The government would only officially recognize one of the them. So only one could vote and only one could apply for senior benefits. They were trying to work it out and it didn't sound like they were getting the situation resolved.

Angie Godina

Published by meef98367 – Sun, 2007-02-18 18:15 | Permalink

Comment

Linda,

You're correct about the translation of antier and antenoche (my mother used to pronounce it "an-teh-oh-cheh"). Also about the twins, I have come across the same thing, when twins of the same sex were born and each child given the exact same name as his twin but have different god-parents. I guess the first twin died, so they gave the first name to the survivor. I also had a very confusing case that took me years to get straight. One set of twins was born, and about twelve years later the same couple had another set and gave them the same names as the first set, so I think the first set did not survive. I had trouble with two different birthdates, until I saw that there were two sets of twins and not one.

Emilie in Port Orchard, WA --
----- Original Message -----
From: longsjourney
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 3:37 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translating Spanish to English

I tried using the online traslater but got no answer so I'm hoping on of the group can tell me what this means.

The record reads that birth registration was 5 Aug 1886 and birth date was "antier" at 8pm.. does that mean yesterday? So the birthdate would be 4 Aug 1886?

Another record in the same birth registration read the child was born "antenoche" is that the same as antier?

Also, when there is a set of twins and they are both named the same, would that usually mean one did not survive or was not expected to survive? I noticed it was not unusual to name another child the same when the earlier born one is deceased.

I have another set of siblings named the same but know they have different wives and were padrinos to each other during the same time period so it's not the same man married twice.. Any ideas why they would do that?

Linda in Everett

Comment

Hi there Linda ,

When I found out that my great grandfather was a twin they told me that when males are born they almost always gave them the names Cosme and Damian . ( Jose Cosme and Jose Damian ) I will ask further on this for you .

Welester

> From: auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 17:10:13 -0800> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translating Spanish to English> > Linda,> > You're correct about the translation of antier and antenoche (my mother used to pronounce it "an-teh-oh-cheh"). Also about the twins, I have come across the same thing, when twins of the same sex were born and each child given the exact same name as his twin but have different god-parents. I guess the first twin died, so they gave the first name to the survivor. I also had a very confusing case that took me years to get straight. One set of twins was born, and about twelve years later the same couple had another set and gave them the same names as the first set, so I think the first set did not survive. I had trouble with two different birthdates, until I saw that there were two sets of twins and not one.> > Emilie in Port Orchard, WA --> ----- Original Message ----- > From: longsjourney > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org > Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 3:37 PM> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translating Spanish to English> > > > I tried using the online traslater but got no answer so I'm hoping on of the group can tell me what this means.> > The record reads that birth registration was 5 Aug 1886 and birth date was "antier" at 8pm.. does that mean yesterday? So the birthdate would be 4 Aug 1886?> > Another record in the same birth registration read the child was born "antenoche" is that the same as antier?> > Also, when there is a set of twins and they are both named the same, would that usually mean one did not survive or was not expected to survive? I noticed it was not unusual to name another child the same when the earlier born one is deceased. > > I have another set of siblings named the same but know they have different wives and were padrinos to each other during the same time period so it's not the same man married twice.. Any ideas why they would do that?> > Linda in Everett> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
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Comment

Hi, there. Just a note to help you in translation of the word "antier." The correct spelling is "anteayer (the day before yesterday)," but it's one of those words that got shortened (or mispronounced) in México like saying "pos" instead of "pues" or "'tons" instead of "entonces" and also "pa'" instead of "para." Well, you get the picture! :-)

Cristina Ávila Haro de Pedroza

----- Original Message ----- > From:
longsjourney > To:
research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org > Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007
3:37 PM> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translating Spanish to English> >
> > I tried using the online traslater but got no answer so I'm hoping
on of the group can tell me what this means.> > The record reads that
birth registration was 5 Aug 1886 and birth date was "antier" at 8pm..
does that mean yesterday? So the birthdate would be 4 Aug 1886?> >
Another record in the same birth registration read the child was born
"antenoche" is that the same as antier?> > Also, when there is a set of twins
and they are both named the same, would that usually mean one did not
survive or was not expected to survive? I noticed it was not unusual to
name another child the same when the earlier born one is deceased. > >
I have another set of siblings named the same but know they have
different wives and were padrinos to each other during the same time period
so it's not the same man married twice.. Any ideas why they would do
that?> > Linda in Everett> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- >
Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> >

Published by Raul Luna – Sun, 2007-02-18 17:45 | Permalink

Comment

Linda..antenoche..means the night before last.,..antier..day before yesterday..RaulLuna

longsjourney wrote:
I tried using the online traslater but got no answer so I'm hoping on of the group can tell me what this means.

The record reads that birth registration was 5 Aug 1886 and birth date was "antier" at 8pm.. does that mean yesterday? So the birthdate would be 4 Aug 1886?

Another record in the same birth registration read the child was born "antenoche" is that the same as antier?

Also, when there is a set of twins and they are both named the same, would that usually mean one did not survive or was not expected to survive? I noticed it was not unusual to name another child the same when the earlier born one is deceased.

I have another set of siblings named the same but know they have different wives and were padrinos to each other during the same time period so it's not the same man married twice.. Any ideas why they would do that?

Linda in Everett

Comment

Thank you Raul, good to hear from you!
Linda in Everett

RAUL LUNA wrote:
Linda..antenoche..means the night before last.,..antier..day before yesterday..RaulLuna

---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Published by gnzlzspd – Sun, 2007-02-18 17:30 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Linda:

I can only help you with the first 2 questions...
Ayer=Yesterday
Antier= The day before yesterday=2 days ago.
Anoche=Last night
Antenoche=The night before last night=2 nights ago.

I wish I could help you with the other questions, but I don't know the
answers. Iam sure somone else in the group will help.

1gnzlz@verizon.net

================================================================================================================

> I tried using the online traslater but got no answer so I'm hoping on of
> the group can tell me what this means.
>
> The record reads that birth registration was 5 Aug 1886 and birth date was
> "antier" at 8pm.. does that mean yesterday? So the birthdate would be 4
> Aug 1886?
>
> Another record in the same birth registration read the child was born
> "antenoche" is that the same as antier?
>
> Also, when there is a set of twins and they are both named the same, would
> that usually mean one did not survive or was not expected to survive? I
> noticed it was not unusual to name another child the same when the earlier
> born one is deceased.
>
> I have another set of siblings named the same but know they have different
> wives and were padrinos to each other during the same time period so it's
> not the same man married twice.. Any ideas why they would do that?
>
> Linda in Everett

Comment

Thank you John, you answered the important questions. I appreciate you taking the time.
Linda in Everett

John Gonzalez <1gnzlz@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Linda:

I can only help you with the first 2 questions...
Ayer=Yesterday
Antier= The day before yesterday=2 days ago.
Anoche=Last night
Antenoche=The night before last night=2 nights ago.

I wish I could help you with the other questions, but I don't know the
answers. Iam sure somone else in the group will help.

1gnzlz@verizon.net

================================================================================================================

> I tried using the online traslater but got no answer so I'm hoping on of
> the group can tell me what this means.
>
> The record reads that birth registration was 5 Aug 1886 and birth date was
> "antier" at 8pm.. does that mean yesterday? So the birthdate would be 4
> Aug 1886?
>
> Another record in the same birth registration read the child was born
> "antenoche" is that the same as antier?
>
> Also, when there is a set of twins and they are both named the same, would
> that usually mean one did not survive or was not expected to survive? I
> noticed it was not unusual to name another child the same when the earlier
> born one is deceased.
>
> I have another set of siblings named the same but know they have different
> wives and were padrinos to each other during the same time period so it's
> not the same man married twice.. Any ideas why they would do that?
>
> Linda in Everett

Informacion Matrimonial----research Digest, Vol 13, Issue 13

Published by mimasep1959 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hello,
My niece is engaged to be married next year, and she actually
went through a similar process in the USA. Both she and the groom
brought people in to vouch that neither had been married before, that

Comments

Published by cavilah – Mon, 2007-02-19 11:30 | Permalink

Comment

Hi, there. I think the Catholic Church still obtains much of the same information but each parish must have slightly different preferences when it comes to obtaining it (trusting the system or actually "interviewing" the couple). When I contacted the Church that I wanted to get married in to obtain a date, the priest told me he couldn't give us a date until we turned in copies of our Baptismal, First Communion, and Confirmation certificates. Well, I thought I could just make copies of what my mom had, but it turns out they require "updated" copies of the Baptismal certificate because each time you complete a Sacrament (First Communion, etc.,), they update the certificate w/the dates, Godparents, etc. This, of course, would record any previous marriages because the marrying Church would forward the info. to the Baptismal Church. Theoretically, you would not get away w/marrying in the Church again unless the marriage was previously annuled by the Church. Also, that is
why they publish the "amonestaciones, (marriage banns/licenses)" which give the public a chance to speak up if they know either one has been previously married by the Church. I suppose they can also use the parental information to find any family relationships. Could be...

Irma GomezLucero wrote: Hello,
My niece is engaged to be married next year, and she actually
went through a similar process in the USA. Both she and the groom
brought people in to vouch that neither had been married before, that
they were not related, etc., I never experienced this when my husband
and I came before the priest to ask to be married, neither did my
sisters, nor my nephew & his wife. I'm guessing that it's because our
families knew the priest, and we were getting married in our own parish.
He knew that we hadn't been married before, were'nt related, etc., In
my situation, the priest actually knew both of our families. He works
with the handicapped, and since we both have siblings, he knew our
families. We were all married in the US too.
My niece is marrying a non-Catholic, doesn't know the priest and
is marrying in a different parish in the US. It seems this is still a
practice. Interesting....
Irma Gomez Gtz
Northern Calif.

Honoring WWII Vets

Published by meef98367 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

The following is from the Rootsweb Review Newsletter for February 14, 2007:

"Unknown to most Americans, there are very few surviving records concerning World War II veterans--most of them were lost in a storage warehouse fire decades ago. The government has records on servicemen who died during the war, but almost no records on who fought and survived the war".

Difference

Published by mendezdetorres –
Forums
Genealogy Research

What is the differnce between Informacion Matrimonial films and regular Matrimonio films?

Comments

Published by arturoramos – Tue, 2007-02-13 20:12 | Permalink

Comment

The regular matrimonio films simply have the information regarding the relevant dates and identifying the persons.... thus at most it will have the dates on which the "amonestaciones" were done, the date of the desposamiento and the date of the velacion. The "contrayentes" are named and if you are lucky so are their places of origin and parents' names.

The informacion matrimonial is the documentation that priests had to collect in order to ensure that the couple was eligible to be married. Thus they had to get statements from each of the persons stating that they were either single or widowed, that they were getting married out of their own free will and verification from the couple or others that there were no impediments to their marriage, including being relatives within three degrees.

Thus the informacion matrimonial tends to have a lot more detail as far as genealogical information is concerned. If there is any doubt about the relationship between the couple, there is usually a lengthy discussion of genealogical information. Basically the priest would collect testimonies, etc. and if there was an impediment, these would be sent to the bishop to ask for a dispensation. These are the dispensations that appear in Luz Montejano's Sagrada Mitra book.

The problem with the informacion matrimonial is that it is not standardized, is often multiple pages per entry and not necessarily chronological so it is harder to use than the short entries in chronological order in the registro de matrimonio books... not to mention that the latter are indexed.

I hope this helps. Let us know if you have nay other questions.

Comment

Informacion Matrimonial: When a couple decided to marry, they were required to petition the church for permision to marry. The bride (La Pretensa) and groom (El Pretenso) along with their respective character witnesses (Testigos) would appear before the Priest and make sworn statements about who they were, their parents, where they were from, where they originated, etc. The witnesses would vouch for the individuals, who were the parents, how long they had known the couple, etc. Reasons for the scrutiny were several which included; to prevent close family intermarriages, first cousins etc., to provide for protection of properties, land grants, and that the marriage was of mutual consent between families. This could precede the marriage by several weeks or months. Once the Church was satisfied as to the proper status of the couple permission was granted and the wedding announcement (Bands of Marriage) were made and the wedding took place.

Regular Matrimonio films are the records of the actual weddings, listing the couple, their parents and all the rest of the information required at the time.

Hope I answered your question.......

Comment

arturoramos wrote:
> The regular matrimonio films simply have the information regarding the relevant dates and identifying the persons.... thus at most it will have the dates on which the "amonestaciones" were done, the date of the desposamiento and the date of the velacion.
I've seen examples of a marriage record on one page and then another
seemingly exact record a few pages later. I didn't examine the record
closely at the time but would you guess that one might be the the
wedding record and the other might be the record on the date of the
velacion? Are there books of records devoted to only the Velaciones?

thanks,

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

>
>
>

Newest Prima!!!: was- Delgados of Pinos, Zacatecas

Published by Welester –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi there Josie ,

Do you add the hominy or corn into the menudo , in California we put the corn in and the people here in Monterrey get furious with me cuz they say that is NOT the way it's supposed to be . I tell them ( in jest ) that the reason I have come to Monterrey is to get them all back on the right path , that they have strayed and have forgotten to add the corn to menudo , I laugh and they just stare at me , go figure . hehe

Comments

Published by josiett – Tue, 2007-02-13 20:45 | Permalink

Comment

Hi!

I make mine using the "honeycomb" tripe and the usual spices and garlic,
etc. Then at the end I add yellow hominy.....It seems to give it better
color with all that red chili powder color. I also use those dried black
chilis after I boil them in water to remove the skins......that seems to
give the menudo a great flavor. I learned how to make menudo many years ago
from a lady who owned a Mexican restaurant......she was the best cook! I
have never heard of anyone using corn in menudo......

Now you guys have made me hungry for menudo!!! :-)

Josie in San Antonio

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Lester
Alvarado
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 6:08 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Newest Prima!!!: was- Delgados of
Pinos,Zacatecas

Hi there Josie ,

Do you add the hominy or corn into the menudo , in California we put the
corn in and the people here in Monterrey get furious with me cuz they say
that is NOT the way it's supposed to be . I tell them ( in jest ) that the
reason I have come to Monterrey is to get them all back on the right path ,
that they have strayed and have forgotten to add the corn to menudo , I
laugh and they just stare at me , go figure . hehe

Welester

> From: josiett3@satx.rr.com> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Date:
> Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:17:22 -0600> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos]
> Newest Prima!!!: was- Delgados of Pinos, Zacatecas> > > I make a mean
> pot of menudo, Joseph........let me know when you are down in> San
> Antonio and I will fire up the stove!> > Josie> > >
_________________________________________________________________

Comment

josie, double prima,

in a few minutes i will be on my way to "marimbalandia", Veracruz.

will talk wwhen I get back.

1712 Stanford Ave., Brownsville, texas, 78520, 956 542 7907, cell 956 572-4780

Adeeos. prima juanita

"Josie T. Trevino" wrote:
Hi!

I make mine using the "honeycomb" tripe and the usual spices and garlic,
etc. Then at the end I add yellow hominy.....It seems to give it better
color with all that red chili powder color. I also use those dried black
chilis after I boil them in water to remove the skins......that seems to
give the menudo a great flavor. I learned how to make menudo many years ago
from a lady who owned a Mexican restaurant......she was the best cook! I
have never heard of anyone using corn in menudo......

Now you guys have made me hungry for menudo!!! :-)

Josie in San Antonio

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Lester
Alvarado
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 6:08 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Newest Prima!!!: was- Delgados of
Pinos,Zacatecas

Hi there Josie ,

Do you add the hominy or corn into the menudo , in California we put the
corn in and the people here in Monterrey get furious with me cuz they say
that is NOT the way it's supposed to be . I tell them ( in jest ) that the
reason I have come to Monterrey is to get them all back on the right path ,
that they have strayed and have forgotten to add the corn to menudo , I
laugh and they just stare at me , go figure . hehe

Welester

> From: josiett3@satx.rr.com> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Date:
> Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:17:22 -0600> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos]
> Newest Prima!!!: was- Delgados of Pinos, Zacatecas> > > I make a mean
> pot of menudo, Joseph........let me know when you are down in> San
> Antonio and I will fire up the stove!> > Josie> > >
_________________________________________________________________

Comment

Everybody needs to be very very careful not to post private information
to the list. Remember you are not talking only to that one person but to
over 150 individuals subscribed to the Research list. so let's keep
phone numbers, addresses, and other private information off the list please.

thanks,

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

juanita delgado wrote:
> josie, double prima,
>
> in a few minutes i will be on my way to "marimbalandia", Veracruz.
>
> will talk wwhen I get back.
>
> xxxxxxx Ave., xxxxxx, tx, xxxxx, xxx xxx xxxx cell xxx xxx-xxxx
>
> Adeeos. prima juanita
>
> "Josie T. Trevino" wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I make mine using the "honeycomb" tripe and the usual spices and garlic,
> etc. Then at the end I add yellow hominy.....It seems to give it better
> color with all that red chili powder color. I also use those dried black
> chilis after I boil them in water to remove the skins......that seems to
> give the menudo a great flavor. I learned how to make menudo many years ago
> from a lady who owned a Mexican restaurant......she was the best cook! I
> have never heard of anyone using corn in menudo......
>
> Now you guys have made me hungry for menudo!!! :-)
>
> Josie in San Antonio
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Lester
> Alvarado
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 6:08 PM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Newest Prima!!!: was- Delgados of
> Pinos,Zacatecas
>
> Hi there Josie ,
>
> Do you add the hominy or corn into the menudo , in California we put the
> corn in and the people here in Monterrey get furious with me cuz they say
> that is NOT the way it's supposed to be . I tell them ( in jest ) that the
> reason I have come to Monterrey is to get them all back on the right path ,
> that they have strayed and have forgotten to add the corn to menudo , I
> laugh and they just stare at me , go figure . hehe
>
> Welester
>
>
>
>
>> From: josiett3@satx.rr.com> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Date:
>> Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:17:22 -0600> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos]
>> Newest Prima!!!: was- Delgados of Pinos, Zacatecas> > > I make a mean
>> pot of menudo, Joseph........let me know when you are down in> San
>> Antonio and I will fire up the stove!> > Josie> > >
>>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
>

Comment

Joseph I discovered we are not only posting to the list but some of our "conversations" appear on Google as well depending on the subject. I googled Miguel Caldera and was surprised to find me listed because of what I asked and posted... It's not a problem to me but I thought others should be aware..
Linda in Everett

Joseph Puentes wrote:

Everybody needs to be very very careful not to post private information
to the list. Remember you are not talking only to that one person but to
over 150 individuals subscribed to the Research list. so let's keep
phone numbers, addresses, and other private information off the list please.

thanks,

joseph

---------------------------------
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

Comment

yes the message archived are public. that is so the public can decide if
the content of our conversation is "serious" or "superficial." that is a
way they can determine if they want into the group. All your private
information as in email address, location city, etc is just that
"Private" that is unless a person were to break the guidelines of the
group and post private information into emails.

thanks,

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:
> Joseph I discovered we are not only posting to the list but some of our "conversations" appear on Google as well depending on the subject. I googled Miguel Caldera and was surprised to find me listed because of what I asked and posted... It's not a problem to me but I thought others should be aware..
> Linda in Everett
>
> Joseph Puentes wrote:
>
> Everybody needs to be very very careful not to post private information
> to the list. Remember you are not talking only to that one person but to
> over 150 individuals subscribed to the Research list. so let's keep
> phone numbers, addresses, and other private information off the list please.
>
> thanks,
>
> joseph
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a PS3 game guru.
> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

Published by aajay1073 – Tue, 2007-02-13 17:20 | Permalink

Comment

I like the Hominy the best and generally eat more of the Hominy and very little of the meat. One time I was travelling and ordered Menudo and was very disappointed when all it had was meat and NO hominy. :-( I can't remember now what city I was in.

Its great that you are getting them back on the right path... :-)

Angie Godina

Published by cavilah – Tue, 2007-02-13 19:30 | Permalink

Comment

I know what you mean, but the opposite happened to me. My family, being from Zacatecas, is used to Menudo w/out the hominy since Pozole is the one we use hominy with. I was so shocked when my husband's mom served me Menudo w/hominy. I think it depends on the region of Mexico because even she used to make it w/out hominy (being from Jalisco), but because she married into a family from Durango, she learned to make it with. Interesting how there are so many variations of the same thing depending on the region that you're from like Menudo with vs. without hominy, green vs. red pozole, cheese and onion enchiladas vs. meat enchiladas, tamales made w/corn husks vs. banana leaves...Well, you get the picture... :-) Mmmm...I think I'm getting hungry... :-P

aajay1073 wrote:
I like the Hominy the best and generally eat more of the Hominy and very little of the meat. One time I was travelling and ordered Menudo and was very disappointed when all it had was meat and NO hominy. :-( I can't remember now what city I was in.

Its great that you are getting them back on the right path... :-)

Angie Godina

Published by josiett – Tue, 2007-02-13 20:45 | Permalink

Comment

Angie.....as I replied to Welester a while ago, I use yellow hominy in my
menudo and I put LOTS of it! I love the hominy too! I sure am getting
hungry!!! :-)

Josie in San Antonio

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of aajay1073
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 6:21 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Menudo

I like the Hominy the best and generally eat more of the Hominy and very
little of the meat. One time I was travelling and ordered Menudo and was
very disappointed when all it had was meat and NO hominy. :-( I can't
remember now what city I was in.

Its great that you are getting them back on the right path... :-)

Angie Godina

Buried Alive? Saved by the Bell?

Published by meef98367 –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

Esperanza,

You mentioned someone's grandmother buried alive? Do you know more about that? How did they discover that?

When I was studying Italian, our instructor, a native of Italy, told us that she never wanted to be embalmed, that they didn't do that in Italy because of known cases where someone thought to be deceased was buried alive. How they knew that I don't know.

Comments

Published by cavilah – Fri, 2007-02-16 12:00 | Permalink

Comment

I read that the tradition of the vigil or "wake" originated from the need to wait and see if the person was indeed dead. Sometimes they would pick up a drunk man that was passed out on the street and assume he was dead and so they laid him out for a few days, "just in case." I heard of a woman who had been entombed in the family crypt and years later when then opened it they saw her skeleton crumpled by the door as if she had awakened and, unable to open the door, probably died of starvation. Creepy!

Emilie Garcia wrote: Esperanza,

You mentioned someone's grandmother buried alive? Do you know more about that? How did they discover that?

When I was studying Italian, our instructor, a native of Italy, told us that she never wanted to be embalmed, that they didn't do that in Italy because of known cases where someone thought to be deceased was buried alive. How they knew that I don't know.

I also read in one of my genealogy newsletters, I can't remember which, about the origin of the term "Saved by the Bell". It seems that back before embalming was common, people buried alive could summon help with a bell. People would be buried with a cord tied around their hands, and if they came to after being comatose, their thrashing around in the coffin would cause the cord to pull on a bell hung on the cross above their grave, and someone would know to come and unearth them.

I also heard from a boyfriend of my sister's who was raised in the Dominican Republic next door to Haiti where they had voodoo witch doctors who would go into such deep trances that they were thought to have died and be buried and would awaken later underground and start scratching. Apparently, this guy's grandfather was such a case. He said there was evidence his grandfather had come to in the grave because the lining of his casket was scratched and torn right above where his hands had been. He probably suffocated. I never found out why they had unearthed him in the first place.

Is this all just folklore? How do people find out about people being buried alive?

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

Comment

Hi Emilie,
Here is what my great aunt told me. Her mother's mother (my great
grandmother) died shortly after childbirth. Her husband was a traveling salesman when
she passed away and was buried. When he (Andres Villarreal) returned, he was
insistent that his wife's grave be re-opened - so that he could see her.
When it was re-opened, the coffin had scratch marks and evidence of blood. Her
fingers were found pulling at her hair. I don't know the particulars of the
story surrounding her death. My great aunt said that her mother had a very
quick temper and stern approach to life - she believed this was as a result of
growing up motherless.

Esperanza

Comment

Thanks for the story, Esperanza. How sad, and how horrible for the victim.

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: Latina1955@aol.com
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Buried Alive? Saved by the Bell?

Hi Emilie,
Here is what my great aunt told me. Her mother's mother (my great
grandmother) died shortly after childbirth. Her husband was a traveling salesman when
she passed away and was buried. When he (Andres Villarreal) returned, he was
insistent that his wife's grave be re-opened - so that he could see her.
When it was re-opened, the coffin had scratch marks and evidence of blood. Her
fingers were found pulling at her hair. I don't know the particulars of the
story surrounding her death. My great aunt said that her mother had a very
quick temper and stern approach to life - she believed this was as a result of
growing up motherless.

Esperanza

SMGF DNA

Published by gnarus –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

Hi,

I've taken the test and these are my pros and cons:

Pros
It's Free
I got 29 markers and you could get up to 40 something
Even though your haplotype is not published you can easily get it from the site itself by shuffling some numbers.

SMGF DNA Participation

Published by cavilah –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

Hi, all. I don't know if this would interest anyone, but I sumbitted my DNA for the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Project and they sent me a code for discounted DNA Analysis through Relative Genetics (see below for details) for participating (open to friends and family upon participation). If you've been thinking of getting your DNA tested for genealogical purposes, then maybe this is worth a look-see. If anyone has heard of this lab, will you be so kind as to give us your input and thoughts on this "deal?" Thanks!

Comments

Published by cavilah – Thu, 2007-02-15 11:48 | Permalink

Comment

Hi, all. I don't know if this would interest anyone, but I sumbitted my DNA for the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Project and they sent me a code for discounted DNA Analysis through Relative Genetics (see below for details) for participating (open to friends and family upon participation). If you've been thinking of getting your DNA tested for genealogical purposes, then maybe this is worth a look-see. If anyone has heard of this lab, will you be so kind as to give us your input and thoughts on this "deal?" Thanks!

Cristina

adam@smgf.org wrote:
Subject: Thank You For Participating!
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:50:04 -0700
From:
To:

Dear Cristina Pedroza (Nee Avla Haro),

The Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation has received your participation kit and has submitted it for analysis. Thank you for adding your data to the world’s foremost collection of correlated genetic and genealogical information.

As a token of our appreciation we are enclosing a coupon to help you with your own genetic family research. This coupon may be used* to obtain discounted DNA Analysis through Relative Genetics. You may use your coupon code for either:
- A discounted 26 Marker Y-chromosome Paternal Line Analysis for $95 USD OR
- A discounted mtDNA Maternal Line Analysis for $95 USD

Friends and family may also take advantage of this special offer by participating in the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Project. They may do so by requesting a free participation kit from our website (www.smgf.org). Your participation in this project is helping to build an invaluable and innovative tool for family history research.

Sincerely,

Adam Hock
Project Assistant
Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation
2511 South West Temple
Salt Lake City, UT 84115
(800) 344-7643
adam@smgf.org
www.smgf.org
* Offer expires Tuesday, May 15, 2007

Comment

Hi,
I also sent them a sample for free DNA testing and am planning to send them more. I've heard that it usually takes them a very long time to post online your results for the free test, I don't know if the results for the paid test are faster.
For the paid test, they give you the results. For the free test they don't give you the results but they publish them online. The problem is that they don't exactly post your actual results, but a chart where they show which of your results match and don't match an standard they have. You can change the values of this standard on their webpage and figure out your results by trial and error, but you may need some patience.
Finally, as they mention in their website, they are not affiliated to any Church. However, in the release form you signed it says they may share all the information you send them (i.e., your family tree) with their sponsors, like the Sorenson family. And I can't help wondering whether these third parties will or will not use this information for religious purposes within their faith.
VN

'History of Blacks in Mexico' by Tony Burton

Published by nc_coleman –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

I came across this article this evening (as I was looking for something else) on the MexicoConnect site. It is brief, and includes a bibliography. It can be found at:
(note: I am putting URL twice - one is copy & paste - c&p)

Comments

Comment

I read your article and it really hit home. My son in law was told his ancestry was Yaqui but the dna results said African and matched more than 60 % of American Blacks so it's assumed his ancestor was a runaway American slave who joined the Indian band in Mexico as many did. Wonderful article..
thanks for sharing it, Linda in Everett

Latina1955@aol.com wrote:
I found a synopsis over the internet of the very same exhibit that I was
part of!
_http://www.pww.org/article/articleprint/8650/_
(http://www.pww.org/article/articleprint/8650/)

Comment

Esperanza,

Do you know what Mexican or American cities they will tour? This is so very exciting and inspirational, anything that helps unite us as a people and that brings our history to us so that we may better understand ourselves, our friends, family and neighbors.

Thanks for sharing with us.

Alicia

----- Original Message ----
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 5:08:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] 'History of Blacks in Mexico' by Tony Burton

I read your article and it really hit home. My son in law was told his ancestry was Yaqui but the dna results said African and matched more than 60 % of American Blacks so it's assumed his ancestor was a runaway American slave who joined the Indian band in Mexico as many did. Wonderful article..
thanks for sharing it, Linda in Everett

Latina1955@aol.com wrote:
I found a synopsis over the internet of the very same exhibit that I was
part of!
_http://www.pww.org/article/articleprint/8650/_
(http://www.pww.org/article/articleprint/8650/)

Ruiz/Sedano - Typhoid Epidemic in Zacatecas

Published by cavilah –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi, all. While attempting to obtain some oral history from my grandmother on my Ruiz and Sedano lines from Tlaltenango & Sedanos, Zacatecas, I found out that one of my Ruiz ancestors was born "in the year of the typhoid epidemic." Now, I imagine this was probably sometime after 1920, which is the approximate year of my great-great grandfather's, Felipe Ruiz Róbles, marriage to my great-grandmother. The reason I mention him is becuase he was one of those assigned to carry the catloads of typhoid victims to the "camposanto." My grandmother says that when the poor, homeless people who would go around asking for "un atolito," the cart carriers would say, "Atolito? ¡Cual! ¡Camposanto!" and then throw them in the cart and take them to the camposanto (Probably because they figured they were already carrying the disease.). Anyway, I know that is not relevant, but I thought it was an interesting anecdote. My real purpose for this post is to find out if anyone has come across any reference

Read full topic ➜

Comments

Published by cavilah – Mon, 2007-02-12 22:28 | Permalink

Comment

Well, now that I think about it, he may or may not have been married to my gg because he was about 15 yrs. her senior when they married. This epidemic could've occurred when he was a young man in the late 1800's. THe reason I think this is that one of his sisters, Emilia Ruiz Róbles, died around 1895 of typhoid disease. It's possible that the epidemic was in the late 1800's but I am not sure and that is why I'm hoping someone has heard of this.

Thanks, again!!!

Cristina Ávila Haro

Comment

Dear Cristina:
Do not think that a 15 year age gap is not possible. Many of the Alviso men I am researching married in their 20's, but then after their first wife passed away, would marry again in their 40's to women in their early 20's. It may have been your gg's second marriage and usually the second marriage document will list the first wife and how long ago she had passed. This is how I found one ancestor. I was looking at a microfilm for the marriage of a son and the father happened to get married again in the same year. It listed the father's first wife and when she had died, so I knew the approximate year of death for my ancestor. Neat hah! I tease my husband that he is carrying on a family tradition as there is a 12 year gap between us!

Maureen Bejar

Comment

Wow, Maureen, I never thought of that. I never thought of him as having had a wife before my great-grandmother. All I know from my family's stories of her is that she was orphaned as a child and was taken to live with a married brother who mistreated her. She worked in an hacienda until she was 15, which is when she married my great-grandfather who was 30. I honestly think she married him out of necessity in the beginning because she needed someone to care for her (at least HE did, since his family shunned her for being Indian). Anyway, it could be that she was a second wife, but with him only being 30, might it be possible that he was just a late bloomer for the time-period? I guess this is something I need to find out, and quick! My great-grandmother still lives at 103-105 years old, but I need to pay her a visit in Zacatecas soon to get as much information from her as possible. :-( Sad to think of it, but hopefully I can get to visit her soon so she can tell all
the stories.

Thanks for the thought, Maureen; it is definitely something worth investigating.

Cristina

P.S. My husband, too, is carrying on my family tradition. He's 14 yrs. older than me! :-)

Maureen Bejar wrote:

Dear Cristina:
Do not think that a 15 year age gap is not possible. Many of the Alviso men I am researching married in their 20's, but then after their first wife passed away, would marry again in their 40's to women in their early 20's. It may have been your gg's second marriage and usually the second marriage document will list the first wife and how long ago she had passed. This is how I found one ancestor. I was looking at a microfilm for the marriage of a son and the father happened to get married again in the same year. It listed the father's first wife and when she had died, so I knew the approximate year of death for my ancestor. Neat hah! I tease my husband that he is carrying on a family tradition as there is a 12 year gap between us!

Maureen Bejar

Comment

My great-grandfather, Cenobio/Zenob(v)io Gonzalez/s (all these daggone
variations, sheesh!), was born in 1846 and married to 16-year-old
Eleuteria Tovar in 1864. They had 4 or 5 kids and then she died about
1881 or 2. She was his first wife. My great-grandmother, Francisca
Saldivar, gave birth to a legitimate daughter on January 30 1883. This
was my grandmother's oldest full sister and my aunts had never heard of
her OR that fact that their grandfather had been married before. He
was very much older than she was. I have a romantic notion in my mind
that he was an acquantance of her father's and that he fell in love
with her and she with him and they ran off somewhere to marry, WHICH IS
WHY I CAN'T FIND THEIR MARRIAGE RECORDED!!!!!! Cenobio is a problem in
that he was born at a time in Mexico where many records were destroyed
and Francisca is a problem for the same reason.:( I can find all three
of her brothers, but can I find her? Noooooo! How blooming
frustrating...grrrrr. Marge:)
On Feb 15, 2007, at 11:50 AM, Maureen Bejar wrote:

>
> Dear Cristina:
> Do not think that a 15 year age gap is not possible. Many of the
> Alviso men I am researching married in their 20's, but then after
> their first wife passed away, would marry again in their 40's to women
> in their early 20's. It may have been your gg's second marriage and
> usually the second marriage document will list the first wife and how
> long ago she had passed. This is how I found one ancestor. I was
> looking at a microfilm for the marriage of a son and the father
> happened to get married again in the same year. It listed the
> father's first wife and when she had died, so I knew the approximate
> year of death for my ancestor. Neat hah! I tease my husband that he
> is carrying on a family tradition as there is a 12 year gap between
> us!
>
> Maureen Bejar

Comment

I guess my ggm got off easy w/only a 15 yr. age difference! Ha, ha!

"M. Vallazza" wrote: My great-grandfather, Cenobio/Zenob(v)io Gonzalez/s (all these daggone
variations, sheesh!), was born in 1846 and married to 16-year-old
Eleuteria Tovar in 1864. They had 4 or 5 kids and then she died about
1881 or 2. She was his first wife. My great-grandmother, Francisca
Saldivar, gave birth to a legitimate daughter on January 30 1883. This
was my grandmother's oldest full sister and my aunts had never heard of
her OR that fact that their grandfather had been married before. He
was very much older than she was. I have a romantic notion in my mind
that he was an acquantance of her father's and that he fell in love
with her and she with him and they ran off somewhere to marry, WHICH IS
WHY I CAN'T FIND THEIR MARRIAGE RECORDED!!!!!! Cenobio is a problem in
that he was born at a time in Mexico where many records were destroyed
and Francisca is a problem for the same reason.:( I can find all three
of her brothers, but can I find her? Noooooo! How blooming
frustrating...grrrrr. Marge:)

Trim Your Messages - No Personal Info - Recorte sus mensajes - No informacion personal

Published by arturoramos –
Forums
Announcements and Events

(Espanol abajo)

This is mainly directed at new members, who may not have yet downloaded and read the Nuestros Ranchos User Guide, but also a reminder to older members. Please remember that messages sent to the list become available to the general public and that there are about a dozen messages sent a day. So in order to maintain members' privacy and facilitate reading of messages, we ask you adhere to these rules:

Jorge Gomez Montenegro: Introduction, presentación..#2

Published by gnarus –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi Diane,

I've looked into the Ramón Godínez file (actually into both) and I haven't found a Solorio in them, I've just joined the group so there's a huge chance I didn't do it correctly so if you (or anyone else) could please direct me to them I'll be more than grateful.

Comments

Published by Patricia Burton – Fri, 2007-02-16 00:00 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Jorge--

I just put the new information in tonight so if you
checked it before, you would not have found anything
on SOLORIO. I also have lots of FLORES but have not
put them in yet. Although my husband has some
relations and or ancestors in the town of Atotonilco
el Alto, mostly his family came from some of the
ranchos and other areas in the surrounding municipios.
The Godinez family still has a house and farm land in
Santa Rita, Ayotlan, Jalisco.

Hope to hear more from you about the lines you are
seeking.

Sincerely,
Patricia Diane Godinez

--- Jorge Gomez Montenegro
wrote:

> Hi Diane,
>
> I've looked into the Ramón Godínez file (actually
> into both) and I haven't found a Solorio in them,
> I've just joined the group so there's a huge chance
> I didn't do it correctly so if you (or anyone else)
> could please direct me to them I'll be more than
> grateful.
>
> Yours,
>
> Jorge Gomez
> Toluca, Mexico
>
> P.S. English is not my mother tongue so I ask you
> please to forgive my spelling and grammar errors.
>
>
>
> ----- Mensaje original ----
> De: patricia burton
> Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Enviado: viernes, 16 de febrero, 2007 0:16:42
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jorge Gomez
> Montenegro: Introduction, presentación..#2
>
>
> To the Ranchos Group:
>
> Although I have been doing research for many years,
> it
> is hard for me to get my findings where I want them
> to
> go. I think I sent this out right but if not, I am
> hoping Joseph or Arturo will direct it to the right
> place.
>
> If you look in the Ramon GODINEZ file, you will be
> able to see my latest contribution(s). Perhaps this
> is the SOLORIO that Jorge GOMEZ Montenegro needs.
>
> Sincerely,
> Diane in San Diego
>
> --- Joseph Puentes wrote:
>
> > you can send in a gedcom if you like but if you
> have
> > an option to delete
> > people that are living that would be best. And
> your
> > gedcom can include
> > all your data if you want. gedcom's are optional
> but
> > you are welcome to
> > submit them. Let me know what you decide and I'll
> > prepare the gedcom
> > area for your upload. but I'll only do that if you
> > decide for sure to do
> > this.
> >
> > you can do like others and send in several
> "reports"
> > in word or .rtf
> > format.
> >
> > joseph
> >
> > ===================
> >
> > Joseph Puentes
> > http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
> > http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American
> > History)
> >
> >
> >
> > Jorge Gomez Montenegro wrote:
> > > Joseph, thank you very much for the welcome and
> > the information.
> > >
> > > I usually go to the family history center at
> > Toluca but I do most of my research at the
> "archivo
> > general de la nación" in Mexico City, they have a
> > copy of almost all the microfilms done by the LDS
> > (regarding Mexico) besides an awful lot of other
> > documents.
> > >
> > > I do have a question, I previously sent part of
> my
> > family tree in a PDF document but included
> > information on living people so I would like to
> send
> > it again but I'm uncertain if I should do it as a
> > GEDCOM file or other format and if I should send
> all
> > my data or only that related to Jalisco.
> > >
> > > Jorge Gomez
> > >
> > > ----- Mensaje original ----
> > > De: Joseph Puentes
> > > Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Enviado: miércoles, 14 de febrero, 2007 18:04:21
> > > Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jorge Gomez
> Montenegro:
> > Introduction, presentación
> > >
> > >
> > > You are writing to the correct address. welcome
> to
> > the group. You are
> > > close to Mexico City so maybe you are using the
> > Family History Center
> > > there. From the Family history center you can
> find
> > these films for
> > > Atotonilco el Alto. there are also many more
> films
> > not listed here for
> > > Ayotlan, Arandas, and the others you've listed.
> > Are you using this
> > > resource in your research? Do you have the
> address
> > to the closest Family
> > > History Centers in Mexico City?
> > >
> > > there are one member researching Atotonilco el
> > Alto. Log in to the
> > > website and then go to this URL:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15338 I
> didn't
> > check for the other
> > > locations but go to the "Files" and the "Members
> > Genealogies" and then
> > > look next to each person's name for a brief
> > description of the research
> > > locations. OR you could just do a "search" from
> > the front page.
> > >
> > > If you have any questions please don't hesitate
> to
> > ask. We'll try to help.
> > >
> > > joseph
> > >
> > > ===================
> > >
> > > Joseph Puentes
> > > http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
> > > http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American
> > History)
> > >
> > > Title
> > > *Registros parroquiales, 1699-1958*
> > >
> > > Authors
> > > *Iglesia Católica (Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco)
> > (Main Author)*
> > >
> > > Notes
> > > *Microfilme de manuscritos en el archivo
> > parroquial.
> > > Algunos registros incluyen índice.
> > > Parish registers of baptisms, confirmations,
> > marriage petitions,
> > > marriages, and deaths from Atotonilco el Alto,
> > Jalisco, Mexico.
> > > Some registers include an index.*
> > >
> > > Subjects
> > > * México, Jalisco, Atotonilco el Alto - Church
> > records*
> > >
> > > Format
> > > * Manuscript (On Film)*
> > >
> > > Language
> > > * Spanish*
> > >
> > > Publication
> > > * Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmados por la
> Sociedad
> > Genealógica de Utah,
> > > 1958*
> > >
> > > Physical
> > > * 287 carretes de microfilme ; 35 mm.*
> > >
> > > Film Notes
> > > Note - Location [Film]
> > > *Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1699-1749 - FHL
> > INTL Film [ 222109 ]
> > > Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1749-1769 - FHL
> INTL
> > Film [ 222110 ]
> > > Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1769-1777 - FHL
> INTL
> > Film [ 222111 ]
> > > Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1777-1785 - FHL
> INTL
>
=== message truncated ===

Comment

Patricia,

When adding material to an already existing folder you need to first
open your folder and then click on edit and then follow the procedure to
add your material. I found your Solorio material in the "S" section and
have deleted it. I created a "word" file for it and not it resides in
the "G" section inside of your folder. If you are having trouble
managing the folders send them to me directly with your name, Username
and the name of the file and I'll put them in for you next time. glad to
help.

joseph

ps: here is the URL for your folder:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15338

patricia burton wrote:
> Dear Jorge--
>
> I just put the new information in tonight so if you
> checked it before, you would not have found anything
> on SOLORIO. I also have lots of FLORES but have not
> put them in yet. Although my husband has some
> relations and or ancestors in the town of Atotonilco
> el Alto, mostly his family came from some of the
> ranchos and other areas in the surrounding municipios.
> The Godinez family still has a house and farm land in
> Santa Rita, Ayotlan, Jalisco.
>
> Hope to hear more from you about the lines you are
> seeking.
>
> Sincerely,
> Patricia Diane Godinez
>
>
> --- Jorge Gomez Montenegro
> wrote:
>
>
>> Hi Diane,
>>
>> I've looked into the Ramón Godínez file (actually
>> into both) and I haven't found a Solorio in them,
>> I've just joined the group so there's a huge chance
>> I didn't do it correctly so if you (or anyone else)
>> could please direct me to them I'll be more than
>> grateful.
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Jorge Gomez
>> Toluca, Mexico
>>
>> P.S. English is not my mother tongue so I ask you
>> please to forgive my spelling and grammar errors.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Mensaje original ----
>> De: patricia burton
>> Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Enviado: viernes, 16 de febrero, 2007 0:16:42
>> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jorge Gomez
>> Montenegro: Introduction, presentación..#2
>>
>>
>> To the Ranchos Group:
>>
>> Although I have been doing research for many years,
>> it
>> is hard for me to get my findings where I want them
>> to
>> go. I think I sent this out right but if not, I am
>> hoping Joseph or Arturo will direct it to the right
>> place.
>>
>> If you look in the Ramon GODINEZ file, you will be
>> able to see my latest contribution(s). Perhaps this
>> is the SOLORIO that Jorge GOMEZ Montenegro needs.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Diane in San Diego
>>
>> --- Joseph Puentes wrote:
>>
>>
>>> you can send in a gedcom if you like but if you
>>>
>> have
>>
>>> an option to delete
>>> people that are living that would be best. And
>>>
>> your
>>
>>> gedcom can include
>>> all your data if you want. gedcom's are optional
>>>
>> but
>>
>>> you are welcome to
>>> submit them. Let me know what you decide and I'll
>>> prepare the gedcom
>>> area for your upload. but I'll only do that if you
>>> decide for sure to do
>>> this.
>>>
>>> you can do like others and send in several
>>>
>> "reports"
>>
>>> in word or .rtf
>>> format.
>>>
>>> joseph
>>>
>>> ===================
>>>
>>> Joseph Puentes
>>> http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
>>> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American
>>> History)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jorge Gomez Montenegro wrote:
>>>
>>>> Joseph, thank you very much for the welcome and
>>>>
>>> the information.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I usually go to the family history center at
>>>>
>>> Toluca but I do most of my research at the
>>>
>> "archivo
>>
>>> general de la nación" in Mexico City, they have a
>>> copy of almost all the microfilms done by the LDS
>>> (regarding Mexico) besides an awful lot of other
>>> documents.
>>>
>>>> I do have a question, I previously sent part of
>>>>
>> my
>>
>>> family tree in a PDF document but included
>>> information on living people so I would like to
>>>
>> send
>>
>>> it again but I'm uncertain if I should do it as a
>>> GEDCOM file or other format and if I should send
>>>
>> all
>>
>>> my data or only that related to Jalisco.
>>>
>>>> Jorge Gomez
>>>>
>>>> ----- Mensaje original ----
>>>> De: Joseph Puentes
>>>> Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>>>> Enviado: miércoles, 14 de febrero, 2007 18:04:21
>>>> Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jorge Gomez
>>>>
>> Montenegro:
>>
>>> Introduction, presentación
>>>
>>>> You are writing to the correct address. welcome
>>>>
>> to
>>
>>> the group. You are
>>>
>>>> close to Mexico City so maybe you are using the
>>>>
>>> Family History Center
>>>
>>>> there. From the Family history center you can
>>>>
>> find
>>
>>> these films for
>>>
>>>> Atotonilco el Alto. there are also many more
>>>>
>> films
>>
>>> not listed here for
>>>
>>>> Ayotlan, Arandas, and the others you've listed.
>>>>
>>> Are you using this
>>>
>>>> resource in your research? Do you have the
>>>>
>> address
>>
>>> to the closest Family
>>>
>>>> History Centers in Mexico City?
>>>>
>>>> there are one member researching Atotonilco el
>>>>
>>> Alto. Log in to the
>>>
>>>> website and then go to this URL:
>>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15338 I
>>>>
>> didn't
>>
>>> check for the other
>>>
>>>> locations but go to the "Files" and the "Members
>>>>
>>> Genealogies" and then
>>>
>>>> look next to each person's name for a brief
>>>>
>>> description of the research
>>>
>>>> locations. OR you could just do a "search" from
>>>>
>>> the front page.
>>>
>>>> If you have any questions please don't hesitate
>>>>
>> to
>>
>>> ask. We'll try to help.
>>>
>>>> joseph
>>>>
>>>> ===================
>>>>
>>>> Joseph Puentes
>>>> http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
>>>> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American
>>>>
>>> History)
>>>
>>>> Title
>>>> *Registros parroquiales, 1699-1958*
>>>>
>>>> Authors
>>>> *Iglesia Católica (Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco)
>>>>
>>> (Main Author)*
>>>
>>>> Notes
>>>> *Microfilme de manuscritos en el archivo
>>>>
>>> parroquial.
>>>
>>>> Algunos registros incluyen índice.
>>>> Parish registers of baptisms, confirmations,
>>>>
>>> marriage petitions,
>>>
>>>> marriages, and deaths from Atotonilco el Alto,
>>>>
>>> Jalisco, Mexico.
>>>
>>>> Some registers include an index.*
>>>>
>>>> Subjects
>>>> * México, Jalisco, Atotonilco el Alto - Church
>>>>
>>> records*
>>>
>>>> Format
>>>> * Manuscript (On Film)*
>>>>
>>>> Language
>>>> * Spanish*
>>>>
>>>> Publication
>>>> * Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmados por la
>>>>
>> Sociedad
>>
>>> Genealógica de Utah,
>>>
>>>> 1958*
>>>>
>>>> Physical
>>>> * 287 carretes de microfilme ; 35 mm.*
>>>>
>>>> Film Notes
>>>> Note - Location [Film]
>>>> *Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1699-1749 - FHL
>>>>
>>> INTL Film [ 222109 ]
>>>
>>>> Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1749-1769 - FHL
>>>>
>> INTL
>>
>>> Film [ 222110 ]
>>>
>>>> Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1769-1777 - FHL
>>>>
>> INTL
>>
>>> Film [ 222111 ]
>>>
>>>> Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1777-1785 - FHL
>>>>
>> INTL
>>
>>
> === message truncated ===
>
>

Digest Version

Published by makas_nc –
Forums
Genealogy Research

As of late there have been a lot of messages to the group. Just as a
reminder. You can always manage your account by "logging in" and then to
"my account" and click on "edit" then to "my mailing lists" and then

Zacatecas, Coahuila - connection researching Gutierrez line

Published by motherredcaps –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi - I have been trying to research the Gutierrez line in both Zacatecas and in Sierra Mojada Coahuila. I ordered some civil records for the area of Sierra Mojada in Coahuila hoping to find my grandather's civil record. I looked through the microfilm the other day and he did not appear in these records. His parents were from Zacatecas but in order for me to find out more about them, I have to start with my grandfather first. The problem is that I have a name of a church (not listed in LDS records) but not sure where this churches parish records would be located.

Comments

Published by scooterpie1968 – Thu, 2007-02-15 18:30 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Yolanda!
I was very excited to read your post. My maternal grandmother was born in
Sierra Mojada. With some digging I found that her grandfather, my
great,great grandfather, (Diego Ynostrosa) was originally from Fresnillo,
Zacatecas and her grandmother, (Martina Baez) my great-great grandmother,
was from Zacatecas as well, but I don't know the city. All I know is what
is recorded as "El Sagrario Or Santo Domingo, Zacatecas". Martina Baez'
father was from Noria de Angeles, Zacatecas.
Reading your post also help me see why the Ynostrosas and Baez' would have
moved to Coahuila.

Hopefully, this will give you some cities to look at......

Good luck!

Peggy Delgado

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org]On Behalf Of
motherredcaps
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 4:29 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas,Coahuila - connection researching
Gutierrez line

Hi - I have been trying to research the Gutierrez line in both Zacatecas and
in Sierra Mojada Coahuila. I ordered some civil records for the area of
Sierra Mojada in Coahuila hoping to find my grandather's civil record. I
looked through the microfilm the other day and he did not appear in these
records. His parents were from Zacatecas but in order for me to find out
more about them, I have to start with my grandfather first. The problem is
that I have a name of a church (not listed in LDS records) but not sure
where this churches parish records would be located.
Sierra Mojada is bordered by Durango, Chihuahua, the U.S. Sierra Mojada was
a district of Monclava at one time (I was told). Do I look for the
archdiocese of Monclava for Sierra Mojada parish records? also -- On one of
the civil microfilm records, there were many parish records of families who
originated in Zacatecas. They must have come to Sierra Mojada starting in
1879 when silver and copper were discovered there. Thanks for any hints
from anyone who may know about Coahuila and links to Zacatecas.
Yolanda

Comment

Hi Peggy - Got a couple of questions for you....
Is your tree posted to Nuestros Ranchos?
Is your maternal grandmother from Sierra Mojada in your posted tree?
Did you get your grandmother's birth information from a civil record or parish record?
I did find that there was a church in Coahuila called "Nuestra Senora de la Refugia" which was built sometime in 1879. The population grew to at least 10,000 people in Sierra Mojada once silver and copper were discovered. I've been to ancestry, rootsweb and searched all the discussion postings and there wasn't much on Sierra Mojada --- so that means I'm going to have to start looking at several Monclava parish records unless someone knows info. that can shorten the list of parish records that I would have to check out. My Zacatecas lines came from Sauceda de la Borda and Panuco Zacatecas.
Regards, Yolanda

----- Original Message ----
From: Peggy Delgado
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 5:22:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas, Coahuila - connection researching Gutierrez line

Hi Yolanda!
I was very excited to read your post. My maternal grandmother was born in
Sierra Mojada. With some digging I found that her grandfather, my
great,great grandfather, (Diego Ynostrosa) was originally from Fresnillo,
Zacatecas and her grandmother, (Martina Baez) my great-great grandmother,
was from Zacatecas as well, but I don't know the city. All I know is what
is recorded as "El Sagrario Or Santo Domingo, Zacatecas". Martina Baez'
father was from Noria de Angeles, Zacatecas.
Reading your post also help me see why the Ynostrosas and Baez' would have
moved to Coahuila.

Hopefully, this will give you some cities to look at......

Good luck!

Peggy Delgado

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org]On Behalf Of
motherredcaps
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 4:29 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas,Coahuila - connection researching
Gutierrez line

Hi - I have been trying to research the Gutierrez line in both Zacatecas and
in Sierra Mojada Coahuila. I ordered some civil records for the area of
Sierra Mojada in Coahuila hoping to find my grandather's civil record. I
looked through the microfilm the other day and he did not appear in these
records. His parents were from Zacatecas but in order for me to find out
more about them, I have to start with my grandfather first. The problem is
that I have a name of a church (not listed in LDS records) but not sure
where this churches parish records would be located.
Sierra Mojada is bordered by Durango, Chihuahua, the U.S. Sierra Mojada was
a district of Monclava at one time (I was told). Do I look for the
archdiocese of Monclava for Sierra Mojada parish records? also -- On one of
the civil microfilm records, there were many parish records of families who
originated in Zacatecas. They must have come to Sierra Mojada starting in
1879 when silver and copper were discovered there. Thanks for any hints
from anyone who may know about Coahuila and links to Zacatecas.
Yolanda

Comment

Hello Yolanda!
I got my grandmother's birth information form the civil record. She was
born in 1913. Yes, my family tree is posted in
my files, "Delgado, Peggy", under the "Baez" name.
The parish you mentioned, "Nuestra Senora de la Refugia", was that the
parish serving Sierra Mojada???

Thanks!!

Peggy Delgado

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org]On Behalf Of Yolanda
Ochoa
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:12 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas,Coahuila - connection
researching Gutierrez line

Hi Peggy - Got a couple of questions for you....
Is your tree posted to Nuestros Ranchos?
Is your maternal grandmother from Sierra Mojada in your posted tree?
Did you get your grandmother's birth information from a civil record or
parish record?
I did find that there was a church in Coahuila called "Nuestra Senora de la
Refugia" which was built sometime in 1879. The population grew to at least
10,000 people in Sierra Mojada once silver and copper were discovered. I've
been to ancestry, rootsweb and searched all the discussion postings and
there wasn't much on Sierra Mojada --- so that means I'm going to have to
start looking at several Monclava parish records unless someone knows info.
that can shorten the list of parish records that I would have to check out.
My Zacatecas lines came from Sauceda de la Borda and Panuco Zacatecas.
Regards, Yolanda

----- Original Message ----
From: Peggy Delgado
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 5:22:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas, Coahuila - connection researching
Gutierrez line

Hi Yolanda!
I was very excited to read your post. My maternal grandmother was born in
Sierra Mojada. With some digging I found that her grandfather, my
great,great grandfather, (Diego Ynostrosa) was originally from Fresnillo,
Zacatecas and her grandmother, (Martina Baez) my great-great grandmother,
was from Zacatecas as well, but I don't know the city. All I know is what
is recorded as "El Sagrario Or Santo Domingo, Zacatecas". Martina Baez'
father was from Noria de Angeles, Zacatecas.
Reading your post also help me see why the Ynostrosas and Baez' would have
moved to Coahuila.

Hopefully, this will give you some cities to look at......

Good luck!

Peggy Delgado

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org]On Behalf Of
motherredcaps
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 4:29 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas,Coahuila - connection researching
Gutierrez line

Hi - I have been trying to research the Gutierrez line in both Zacatecas and
in Sierra Mojada Coahuila. I ordered some civil records for the area of
Sierra Mojada in Coahuila hoping to find my grandather's civil record. I
looked through the microfilm the other day and he did not appear in these
records. His parents were from Zacatecas but in order for me to find out
more about them, I have to start with my grandfather first. The problem is
that I have a name of a church (not listed in LDS records) but not sure
where this churches parish records would be located.
Sierra Mojada is bordered by Durango, Chihuahua, the U.S. Sierra Mojada was
a district of Monclava at one time (I was told). Do I look for the
archdiocese of Monclava for Sierra Mojada parish records? also -- On one of
the civil microfilm records, there were many parish records of families who
originated in Zacatecas. They must have come to Sierra Mojada starting in
1879 when silver and copper were discovered there. Thanks for any hints
from anyone who may know about Coahuila and links to Zacatecas.
Yolanda

Comment

Hi Peggy - Yes "Nuestra Senora de la Refugia" was the church serving Sierra Mojada area. I think I said Coahuila in the last email message as the local for this church but I meant Sierra Mojada.
Yolanda

----- Original Message ----
From: Peggy Delgado
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:52:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas, Coahuila - connection researching Gutierrez line

Hello Yolanda!
I got my grandmother's birth information form the civil record. She was
born in 1913. Yes, my family tree is posted in
my files, "Delgado, Peggy", under the "Baez" name.
The parish you mentioned, "Nuestra Senora de la Refugia", was that the
parish serving Sierra Mojada???

Thanks!!

Peggy Delgado

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org]On Behalf Of Yolanda
Ochoa
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:12 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas,Coahuila - connection
researching Gutierrez line

Hi Peggy - Got a couple of questions for you....
Is your tree posted to Nuestros Ranchos?
Is your maternal grandmother from Sierra Mojada in your posted tree?
Did you get your grandmother's birth information from a civil record or
parish record?
I did find that there was a church in Coahuila called "Nuestra Senora de la
Refugia" which was built sometime in 1879. The population grew to at least
10,000 people in Sierra Mojada once silver and copper were discovered. I've
been to ancestry, rootsweb and searched all the discussion postings and
there wasn't much on Sierra Mojada --- so that means I'm going to have to
start looking at several Monclava parish records unless someone knows info.
that can shorten the list of parish records that I would have to check out.
My Zacatecas lines came from Sauceda de la Borda and Panuco Zacatecas.
Regards, Yolanda

----- Original Message ----
From: Peggy Delgado
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 5:22:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas, Coahuila - connection researching
Gutierrez line

Hi Yolanda!
I was very excited to read your post. My maternal grandmother was born in
Sierra Mojada. With some digging I found that her grandfather, my
great,great grandfather, (Diego Ynostrosa) was originally from Fresnillo,
Zacatecas and her grandmother, (Martina Baez) my great-great grandmother,
was from Zacatecas as well, but I don't know the city. All I know is what
is recorded as "El Sagrario Or Santo Domingo, Zacatecas". Martina Baez'
father was from Noria de Angeles, Zacatecas.
Reading your post also help me see why the Ynostrosas and Baez' would have
moved to Coahuila.

Hopefully, this will give you some cities to look at......

Good luck!

Peggy Delgado

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org]On Behalf Of
motherredcaps
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 4:29 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas,Coahuila - connection researching
Gutierrez line

Hi - I have been trying to research the Gutierrez line in both Zacatecas and
in Sierra Mojada Coahuila. I ordered some civil records for the area of
Sierra Mojada in Coahuila hoping to find my grandather's civil record. I
looked through the microfilm the other day and he did not appear in these
records. His parents were from Zacatecas but in order for me to find out
more about them, I have to start with my grandfather first. The problem is
that I have a name of a church (not listed in LDS records) but not sure
where this churches parish records would be located.
Sierra Mojada is bordered by Durango, Chihuahua, the U.S. Sierra Mojada was
a district of Monclava at one time (I was told). Do I look for the
archdiocese of Monclava for Sierra Mojada parish records? also -- On one of
the civil microfilm records, there were many parish records of families who
originated in Zacatecas. They must have come to Sierra Mojada starting in
1879 when silver and copper were discovered there. Thanks for any hints
from anyone who may know about Coahuila and links to Zacatecas.
Yolanda

Comment

Wow! If there are films available then I'll do some more in-depth
research....I only had civil records!
Thanks for the tip.

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org]On Behalf Of Yolanda
Ochoa
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:03 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas,Coahuila - connection
researching Gutierrez line

Hi Peggy - Yes "Nuestra Senora de la Refugia" was the church serving Sierra
Mojada area. I think I said Coahuila in the last email message as the local
for this church but I meant Sierra Mojada.
Yolanda

----- Original Message ----
From: Peggy Delgado
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:52:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas, Coahuila - connection researching
Gutierrez line

Hello Yolanda!
I got my grandmother's birth information form the civil record. She was
born in 1913. Yes, my family tree is posted in
my files, "Delgado, Peggy", under the "Baez" name.
The parish you mentioned, "Nuestra Senora de la Refugia", was that the
parish serving Sierra Mojada???

Thanks!!

Peggy Delgado

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org]On Behalf Of Yolanda
Ochoa
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:12 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas,Coahuila - connection
researching Gutierrez line

Hi Peggy - Got a couple of questions for you....
Is your tree posted to Nuestros Ranchos?
Is your maternal grandmother from Sierra Mojada in your posted tree?
Did you get your grandmother's birth information from a civil record or
parish record?
I did find that there was a church in Coahuila called "Nuestra Senora de la
Refugia" which was built sometime in 1879. The population grew to at least
10,000 people in Sierra Mojada once silver and copper were discovered. I've
been to ancestry, rootsweb and searched all the discussion postings and
there wasn't much on Sierra Mojada --- so that means I'm going to have to
start looking at several Monclava parish records unless someone knows info.
that can shorten the list of parish records that I would have to check out.
My Zacatecas lines came from Sauceda de la Borda and Panuco Zacatecas.
Regards, Yolanda

----- Original Message ----
From: Peggy Delgado
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 5:22:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas, Coahuila - connection researching
Gutierrez line

Hi Yolanda!
I was very excited to read your post. My maternal grandmother was born in
Sierra Mojada. With some digging I found that her grandfather, my
great,great grandfather, (Diego Ynostrosa) was originally from Fresnillo,
Zacatecas and her grandmother, (Martina Baez) my great-great grandmother,
was from Zacatecas as well, but I don't know the city. All I know is what
is recorded as "El Sagrario Or Santo Domingo, Zacatecas". Martina Baez'
father was from Noria de Angeles, Zacatecas.
Reading your post also help me see why the Ynostrosas and Baez' would have
moved to Coahuila.

Hopefully, this will give you some cities to look at......

Good luck!

Peggy Delgado

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org]On Behalf Of
motherredcaps
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 4:29 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas,Coahuila - connection researching
Gutierrez line

Hi - I have been trying to research the Gutierrez line in both Zacatecas and
in Sierra Mojada Coahuila. I ordered some civil records for the area of
Sierra Mojada in Coahuila hoping to find my grandather's civil record. I
looked through the microfilm the other day and he did not appear in these
records. His parents were from Zacatecas but in order for me to find out
more about them, I have to start with my grandfather first. The problem is
that I have a name of a church (not listed in LDS records) but not sure
where this churches parish records would be located.
Sierra Mojada is bordered by Durango, Chihuahua, the U.S. Sierra Mojada was
a district of Monclava at one time (I was told). Do I look for the
archdiocese of Monclava for Sierra Mojada parish records? also -- On one of
the civil microfilm records, there were many parish records of families who
originated in Zacatecas. They must have come to Sierra Mojada starting in
1879 when silver and copper were discovered there. Thanks for any hints
from anyone who may know about Coahuila and links to Zacatecas.
Yolanda

Album Section

Published by lunalatina1955 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I had a few moments...I decided to upload some photos under the album
group...members...but I am not sure that I uploaded everything the right way...

I posted a family picture (my Tlaltenango descendants) , and pictures from

Comments

Published by longsjourney – Wed, 2007-02-14 22:00 | Permalink

Comment

Nice photos, thank you for sharing them. How did you get involved with this conference in Mexico?
Linda in Everett

Latina1955@aol.com wrote:
I had a few moments...I decided to upload some photos under the album
group...members...but I am not sure that I uploaded everything the right way...

I posted a family picture (my Tlaltenango descendants) , and pictures from
the Monterrey delegation regarding the dedication of the African-legacy team
that attended in Monterrey and some artists renditions of our Afro-Indi-Meztizo
inheritance.

Enjoy...
Esperanza...Chicagoland area

Comment

Hi Linda,
I am a long term member of the now National Mexcian-American Museum. They
sent me an invitation as an educator to attend. I applied, and was accepted
to be part of the delegation. The trip satisfied my genealogical side of
me...I imagined walking on the same grounds as did my ancestors from my father's
side of the family. In fact, I did get to meet a distant aunt, recorded much
of what she had to say (including the fact that her grandmother was buried
alive). The weird thing is when she showed me a picture of her mother (my
grandfather's sister), she looked a whole lot like one of my sisters... como el
sangre corre fuerte!

By the way, one of my sisters is a Canadian...lives in Vancouver, B.C.

Esperanza
Chicagoland area.

What would you change about the Nuestros Ranchos Website? Que cambiaria del sitio Nuestros Ranchos?

Published by arturoramos –
Forums
Announcements and Events

As I start planning the makeover of the Nuestros Ranchos website, I am hoping that in addition to updating some of the code and the aesthetics of the site, we will be able to improve the functionality of the site. If there is something particular that you would like improved upon, please let us know. We cannot guarantee that the change will be made but we will endeavor to take into account any and all suggestions.

Comments

Published by margeval – Wed, 2007-02-14 18:15 | Permalink

Comment

I'd like for our site to be unavailable to the public on the internet
except at our site. I don't want just ANYBODY looking at my private
information.:( This might be selfish of me but there are some very
scary people out there AND some very dishonest ones as well. Marge:)

On Feb 12, 2007, at 6:13 PM, arturoramos wrote:

>
> As I start planning the makeover of the Nuestros Ranchos website, I am
> hoping that in addition to updating some of the code and the
> aesthetics of the site, we will be able to improve the functionality
> of the site. If there is something particular that you would like
> improved upon, please let us know. We cannot guarantee that the
> change will be made but we will endeavor to take into account any and
> all suggestions.
>
> Como estamos planificando una reconstruccion del sitio Nuestros
> Ranchos, espero que ademas de actualizar el codigo y la estetica del
> sitio, podamos mejorar el funcionamiento del sitio. Si hay algo en
> particular que cree que podriamos mejorar, por favor diganos. No
> podemos garantizar que hagamos el cambio que sugiere pero intentaremos
> tomar en cuenta todas las sugerencias que recibamos.

Comment

the only thing to my knowledge that is public are the message archives.
Thus my regular reminders not to post anything private: phone numbers,
addresses or genealogies.

the folders and members email addresses are not available to the public
unless they are included "inside" an email in the public archives.

Arturo. . .can you chime in on this and tell me if i mis-stated anything.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

M. Vallazza wrote:
> I'd like for our site to be unavailable to the public on the internet
> except at our site. I don't want just ANYBODY looking at my private
> information.:( This might be selfish of me but there are some very
> scary people out there AND some very dishonest ones as well. Marge:)
>
> On Feb 12, 2007, at 6:13 PM, arturoramos wrote:
>
>
>> As I start planning the makeover of the Nuestros Ranchos website, I am
>> hoping that in addition to updating some of the code and the
>> aesthetics of the site, we will be able to improve the functionality
>> of the site. If there is something particular that you would like
>> improved upon, please let us know. We cannot guarantee that the
>> change will be made but we will endeavor to take into account any and
>> all suggestions.
>>
>> Como estamos planificando una reconstruccion del sitio Nuestros
>> Ranchos, espero que ademas de actualizar el codigo y la estetica del
>> sitio, podamos mejorar el funcionamiento del sitio. Si hay algo en
>> particular que cree que podriamos mejorar, por favor diganos. No
>> podemos garantizar que hagamos el cambio que sugiere pero intentaremos
>> tomar en cuenta todas las sugerencias que recibamos.

Comment

Marge,

Joseph is correct about only the emails/forum postings being available to the public. Any of the photos that you put in the albums and certainly all of your genealogy information in your folder as well as all of your profile information is only available to registered members.

Google and other search engines do include our site because their "robots" scan the internet and index pages. Because our site has so much new content every day, it makes it pretty high up on the search results. However, those Google robots can only access the site the same as anybody else who is not an approve member, i.e. only the email/forum postings, the links and the Maps folder in the Albums section.

Marge, all of your private information is safe... as long as you don't put it out on an email... thus everyone should heed Joseph's warning and not put any phone numbers, birthdates, addresses, etc. in emails to the lists or in postings. If you need to communicate such information to another member, please do it privately through their contact form.

Published by nc_coleman – Tue, 2007-02-13 14:58 | Permalink

Comment

Arturo:
I would like to know the best/easiest way to search for another member who might be searching for the same surnames or places that I am searching - i.e., a cross-referenced surname list/place-name list. I haven't been able to figure out how to do it on the Nuestros Ranchos site (it was easy on the Yahoo site). I am sure I am over-looking some simple means to do so, but I just haven't been able to figure it out. Any help/guidance is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Natalie
PS - stay off the icy sidewalks in DC (the local FHC in Annandale had to close early today - Tues. 02/13 - because of the impending snow/ice storm).

Comment

Natalie:

I am at home and am not going out tonight anymore... tomorrow will be another story with the ice...

As far as finding other members who are researching the same surname or in the same location, you can do this through the search function.

1. Click on the search button (leave search field blank)

2. Click on the user tab when the search page comes up.

3a. Type in the surname or place name in the search field and click search...

OR

3b. Click on the "Advanced search" option and enter the surname or place name in the appropriate field. You can also use this feature to search for people by the state or country where they are located, by their username, etc.
3

Marriages with wide age range

Published by Welester –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Cristina ,

My gggranfather Candelario married twice that I know of for sure and possible a third , how bout them apples !

Welester

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> From: mytmo@netnitco.net> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:50:14 -0800> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Marriages with wide age range> > > Dear Cristina:> Do not think that a 15 year age gap is not possible. Many of the Alviso men I am researching married in their 20's, but then after their first wife passed away, would marry again in their 40's to women in their early 20's. It may have been your gg's second marriage and usually the second marriage document will list the first wife and how long ago she had passed. This is how I found one ancestor. I was looking at a microfilm for the marriage of a son and the father happened to get married again in the same year. It listed the father's first wife and when she had died, so I knew the approximate year of death for my ancestor. Neat hah! I tease my husband that he is

Read full topic ➜

Comments

Published by Welester – Thu, 2007-02-15 11:17 | Permalink

Comment

Cristina ,

My gggranfather Candelario married twice that I know of for sure and possible a third , how bout them apples !

Welester

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> From: mytmo@netnitco.net> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:50:14 -0800> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Marriages with wide age range> > > Dear Cristina:> Do not think that a 15 year age gap is not possible. Many of the Alviso men I am researching married in their 20's, but then after their first wife passed away, would marry again in their 40's to women in their early 20's. It may have been your gg's second marriage and usually the second marriage document will list the first wife and how long ago she had passed. This is how I found one ancestor. I was looking at a microfilm for the marriage of a son and the father happened to get married again in the same year. It listed the father's first wife and when she had died, so I knew the approximate year of death for my ancestor. Neat hah! I tease my husband that he is carrying on a family tradition as there is a 12 year gap between us!> > Maureen Bejar> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuest
ros Ranc
hos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
Get the new Windows Live Messenger!
http://get.live.com/messenger/overview

Comment

Wow, those men really knew how to work it, huh? :-) Did anyone ever see that "novela" called "Amor Real" from not-too-long-ago? I think it took place during the time of the Independence from Spain and it shows how men in their 50's/60's are marrying women in their late teens/early 20's. I guess men have more productive or "reproductive" years to take advantage of. LOL!

Lester Alvarado wrote:
Cristina ,

My gggranfather Candelario married twice that I know of for sure and possible a third , how bout them apples !

Welester

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> From: mytmo@netnitco.net> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:50:14 -0800> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Marriages with wide age range> > > Dear Cristina:> Do not think that a 15 year age gap is not possible. Many of the Alviso men I am researching married in their 20's, but then after their first wife passed away, would marry again in their 40's to women in their early 20's. It may have been your gg's second marriage and usually the second marriage document will list the first wife and how long ago she had passed. This is how I found one ancestor. I was looking at a microfilm for the marriage of a son and the father happened to get married again in the same year. It listed the father's first wife and when she had died, so I knew the approximate year of death for my ancestor. Neat hah! I tease my husband that he is carrying on a family tradition as there is a 12 year gap between us!> > Maureen Bejar> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- >
Nuest
ros Ranc
hos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
Get the new Windows Live Messenger!
http://get.live.com/messenger/overview

Comment

I have you beat with an age difference story. My ancestor Nestor Sanchez, born abt 1827 was married the first in 1847 to my ancestor Maria Gertrudis Cortes, 2 years after her death he married again.. in 1896! That made him over 70 and she was Victoriana Tovar, widow age 34 and they had at least 1 more child that I know of born in 1900! His second marriage record lists him as 50 but we know that wasn't correct so always take those marriage records with a grain of salt until you find a second record to verify.

Also keep in mind that many second marriages were arranged to help care for the man's children from his first marriage. One family member, Eugenio Caldera, 1799 had 9 children when he married his second wife, Maria Crus Losano, age 14 in 1841 and they had 11 more children!

Linda in Everett

La Plus Belle wrote:
Wow, those men really knew how to work it, huh? :-) Did anyone ever see that "novela" called "Amor Real" from not-too-long-ago? I think it took place during the time of the Independence from Spain and it shows how men in their 50's/60's are marrying women in their late teens/early 20's. I guess men have more productive or "reproductive" years to take advantage of. LOL!

Lester Alvarado wrote:
Cristina ,

My gggranfather Candelario married twice that I know of for sure and possible a third , how bout them apples !

Welester

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> From: mytmo@netnitco.net> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:50:14 -0800> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Marriages with wide age range> > > Dear Cristina:> Do not think that a 15 year age gap is not possible. Many of the Alviso men I am researching married in their 20's, but then after their first wife passed away, would marry again in their 40's to women in their early 20's. It may have been your gg's second marriage and usually the second marriage document will list the first wife and how long ago she had passed. This is how I found one ancestor. I was looking at a microfilm for the marriage of a son and the father happened to get married again in the same year. It listed the father's first wife and when she had died, so I knew the approximate year of death for my ancestor. Neat hah! I tease my husband that he is carrying on a family tradition as there is a 12 year gap between us!> > Maureen Bejar> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- >
Nuest
ros Ranc
hos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
Get the new Windows Live Messenger!
http://get.live.com/messenger/overview

Comment

Just yesterday I was at the FHC looking at a film and "accidently" ran
across an entry (not the one I was looking for!) regarding one of my
ancestors.......I made a copy and then translated it into English while it
was still fresh in my mind. The mother (age 23) was registering her two
week old child and gave her husband's age as 80!!!! I could not believe it
but they had clearly shown his age in numbers (80) as well as in word
(ochenta).....I even asked the person next to me to read it and they agreed
I was correct! WOW!!!

Josie in San Antonio

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of La Plus
Belle
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:19 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Marriages with wide age range

Wow, those men really knew how to work it, huh? :-) Did anyone ever see
that "novela" called "Amor Real" from not-too-long-ago? I think it took
place during the time of the Independence from Spain and it shows how men in
their 50's/60's are marrying women in their late teens/early 20's. I guess
men have more productive or "reproductive" years to take advantage of. LOL!

Lester Alvarado wrote:
Cristina ,

My gggranfather Candelario married twice that I know of for sure and
possible a third , how bout them apples !

Welester

Comment

One of my maternal great grandfathers, Feliciano Gil Pinedo de la Torre, married for the first time at the age of 21 with a woman more or less his age. The couple had several children, two of whom married two sisters. After the death of the first wife, when my great-grandfather was 49 years old, he remarried with my great-grandmother who was 15 at the time. My great-great grandmother happened to be the younger daughter of Feliciano's two daughter-in-laws...

Talk about a genealogical tree with crooked branches... My grandfather, who was the second-youngest of the second marriage childern was born when my great-grandfather was 66 years old and his younger brother was born when Feliciano was 68!

http://www.ramosfamily.org/nextgen/getperson.php?personID=I47

Comment

Arturo......my great grandfather was age 72 when my grandfather was
born....he was the youngest of 17 children from my greatgrandfather's two
marriages.....His second wife (my great-grandmother) was 42 when they had my
grandfather.....then yesterday I found one of his relatives (that I wrote
about earlier) who was age 80 when he fathered a child.....I give thanks
that all this "happened" because I would not be here if it hadn't! :-)

Josie in SA

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of arturoramos
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:38 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] My greatgrandfather was 50 years older than his
wife

One of my maternal great grandfathers, Feliciano Gil Pinedo de la Torre,
married for the first time at the age of 21 with a woman more or less his
age. The couple had several children, two of whom married two sisters.
After the death of the first wife, when my great-grandfather was 49 years
old, he remarried with my great-grandmother who was 15 at the time. My
great-great grandmother happened to be the younger daughter of Feliciano's
two daughter-in-laws...

Talk about a genealogical tree with crooked branches... My grandfather, who
was the second-youngest of the second marriage childern was born when my
great-grandfather was 66 years old and his younger brother was born when
Feliciano was 68!

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