Nuestros Ranchos Site

I believe you are referring to the latin Catholic church use of " V.T." which means "Vetus Testamentum" When joined with "supra", the connotation would then become " the testimony given above." "Vt. Supra" would mean the aforementioned testimony. The use of this old Latin abbreviation was fairly well confined to church documents. The priest using it was probably well versed in Cannon law of the 16 century. By the way, I am researching the Cano's of Arandas and Ayotlan; If you know anyone also researching this name in this area please contact me. Thank you, Luis Cano
Corrine Ardoin wrote: In my researching through baptism records, in those from the early eighteen
hundreds, 1807-1818, which I have thus far found, I have come across an
abbreviated term, possibly Latin and always underlined. I am unable to
decipher the meaning of it. I was wondering if anyone knew of its meaning.
It reads: "Vt. Supra." It is placed at the very end of each record,
following the standard "para que conste lo firme: Vt. Supra."

Thank-you!
Corrine Ardoin
Santa Maria, California

Dear Corrine:

The words Vt. Supra. is a latin abreviation for "Ut supra dixit", that means,
"Como dije arriba" or "Like i Said before" something like that.

Im gonna have to write in spanish.

El uso de estas palabras es muy comun en el lenguaje español, sobre todo en el
ambito documental público. En los escritos eclecisaticos, pero también en los
de las autoridades civiles es común encontrar frases como: "los abajo
firmantes" con la cual se pretendía establecer el inicio de una declaración que
después se validaba con la firma, misma que también establecía el final del
documento, protegiendolo de posteriores alteraciones. "Esto es cuanto" también
se utilizaba para concluir documentos, etc.

Mensaje citado por Corrine Ardoin :

> In my researching through baptism records, in those from the early eighteen
> hundreds, 1807-1818, which I have thus far found, I have come across an
> abbreviated term, possibly Latin and always underlined. I am unable to
> decipher the meaning of it. I was wondering if anyone knew of its meaning.
> It reads: "Vt. Supra." It is placed at the very end of each record,
> following the standard "para que conste lo firme: Vt. Supra."
>
> Thank-you!
> Corrine Ardoin
> Santa Maria, California

Corrine,

Ut Supra is Latin for "as stated above" or "as per the foregoing". This expression is used frequently in all types of documents. It confirms that the person affixes his or her signature in accordance with the preceding paragraphs.

My Larousse Dictionary defines it as follows:

Ut Supra.....fórmula que se emplea con frecuencia en los documentos para remitir a lo que antecede. También se dice Vide Supra. Las locuciones ut retro y ut infra tienen análogo empleo.

Take care, Corrine.

Regards,
Bill Figueroa

Hi Joshua,

I do know a lot of Romos in Aguascalientes, especifically the descendants of
Miguel Romo Gonzalez. I daresay all Romos in Aguascalientes are related so
you have a chance to locate your relatives right away.

Look at this link http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15677

That is the whole genealogy since the fist Romo in Aguascalientes, Diego
Romo de Vivar born ca. 1600.

I hope this is of help.

PS I'm still waiting on people wanting to share info on DIAZ DE LEON and
TISCAREÑO surrnames from AGUASCALIENTES.

Laureen

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Joshua
Goodson
Enviado el: Jueves, 24 de Enero de 2008 05:04 p.m.
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] My re-introduction

My name is Joshua Goodson. I do not have much information except what I have
learned from my mother. My Grandfather was born in Aguascalientes,
Aguascalientes, Mexico. His name was Francisco Romo Villanueva. He was born
about 1923 and died in 1997 in California, USA. I am not sure when he moved
to the United States. I was told he had a couple of sisters and maybe two
brothers from Aguascalientes. They may still be living so cannot post their
names. I have pictures that were sent from his family in Aguas (all were
dated in the 1950's and were stamped with by a portrait studio in
Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico. I really want to know more about him
and my ancestors. He also had nephews and other family there. If anyone know
anything at all, please let me know. I am new to this! Thank you....

Joshua http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/16496

____________________________________________________________________________
________
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Count on me, Joseph!
Just tell me how often and how long do you want me to follow up

Best Regards,

Juan Jose

Joseph Puentes wrote:

Hi,

I'm looking for a volunteer to send out 15 day notices to new applicants
that haven't responded after they have initially applied and then send
out a second and final notice to applicants that haven't responded after
30 days of applying. I have form letters all made up and it would
involve looking at a list and setting up a schedule for yourself to send
both 15 day notices and 30 day notices once every other week.

email me if you are interested in this 1-2 hour per week job. No salary
but I will say thanks (often).

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

If you dont find the records, (I learned this) just because its not there doesnt mean they lack it, remember not everyone married in the place of the birth. I have Camino ancestors who lived in Fresnillo and married all the way in Guadalajara! Back in the 1600's. It was more common in those times to travel that far I guess. Sometimes it makes it harder to trace ertain lines when they travel that much! Just a note.
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
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I personally think its jewish because of Ben-David-ez (son of the descendant of King David?)
-Daniel
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Marisela, yo creo que estamos hablando de personas distintas. La alaja creo que pertenece a Zapotlanejo. Y de que sus hijos de mi tatarabuela hayan sido charros no he sabido nada.

En el correo anterior me dices que eres de Fresno, pues te comento que tengo tíos y primos ahí en Fresno, que apellidan Becerra Ramírez y Medina Ramírez, bueno nada mas el primer apellido, pero nombro el segundo para que veas el parentezco conmigo.Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
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Irma, this is a wonderful way of explaining the times and customs. I wonder if the priest even knew during those times what the scribe had written. I've also come to the conclusion that missing grandparents and incorrect ages were more likely because the witness or padrinos were answering questions and they simply didn't know the information especially at baptisms when the mother was not even present since the custom was for her to be in bed for 40 days.

thank you, Linda in Everett

Irma GomezLucero wrote:

As Tomas mentioned--Often people are very poor and can not offer a
donation. This is when they annotated "de limosna."

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Amen,Prima> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:00:56 -0700> From: igomezlucero@csus.edu> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] De limosna---General Digest, Vol 26, Issue 15> > > As Tomas mentioned--Often people are very poor and can not offer a> donation. This is when they annotated "de limosna."> > The Church does NOT charge for "services" or better said charge for> receiving Sacraments. Since the Catholic Church does not make people> tithe any percentage of their wages, nor request W-2 forms of their> congregation, it ran and does run on donations given by people of> whatever they feel they can afford. These donations were/are mainly> collected (collection basket) during Church services. > When receiving sacraments, you give/gave the priest a donation for the> Church which in my experience has NEVER been solicited in Mexico, nor> here in the U.S.A. > > When I was Confirmed in Mexico at the ripe age of 16, I showed up to the> Basilica in San Juan de l
os Lagos (Jalisco) with my mother and> Godmother. The Bishop made his rounds as we accepted the Sacrament of> Confirmation, and he NEVER asked for any donation, nor did I see money> exchange hands. There is NO way he could have annotated who gave and> who didn't either. Maybe in the old days before Independence, these> sacraments were more individualized.... So donations would have been> more apparent? > I have only seen this--de limosna and race annotated before Mexico's> Independence from Spain, and not after. Of course, I've only researched> Los Altos, so I can't speak for other areas. > > "De limosna" meant that the individual(s) were not able to give a> donation pure and simple. I agree that I have run into old records in> my research that "smelled" of racism or disdain, and this saddens me> greatly too. We have to remember that priests are/were human, and that> Mexico is/was a very class conscious society, especially in Los Altos> and especially at this time before the
Independence. > > Irma> Sacramento, CA. > > -----Original Message-----> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Erlinda> Castanon-Long> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 10:07 AM> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Mas de Villegas> > I'm hoping, like Tomas, that someone can translate the phrase "de> Limosna"> for me. My Spanish is poor but I did understand most of what Tomas> shared and I also have ancestors who were listed as Indio/India> laborio/laboria but don't understand the phrase de Limosna.> > Someone else in the group once said that if you had money then it> didn't matter what your nationality was. I have a line in Jerez> Zacatecas listed in the earlier records as Indio and Indio laborio but> they married "Espanol"> and within 1 generation they were classified as Espanoles. My Indio> Garcia line married into the Caldera line and an Indian was never seen> again.... I
guess the lesson is just like today.. money talks.> > Linda in Everett> > Tom?s Alejandro Villegas G?mez wrote:> En Espa?ol:> ponian al> final de las actas o fes de bautismo o matrimonio las leyenda "Se> Bautizo de Limosna" ose "Caso de limosna", para dejar eso si, la> evidencia de que estos "indios laborios" eran muy pobres.> > ---------------------------------> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try> it now.> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org&gt; > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 7> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:32:37 -0600> From: "Javier Garbuno" > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Mas de Villegas> To: > Message-ID: <007801c88f56$9f43a8b0$4601a8c0@AcerAspire>> Content-Type: text/p
lain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";> reply-type=original> > "Limosna" means charity. When people (poor people) ask in the streets> for some coins they said "Me da mi limosna", "una limosnita por el amor> de Dios".> > Also in the churchs the money they collect in the baskets are "La> limosna"> > "Se cas? / bautiz? de limosna" means they didn?t pay to the church for> those services.> > ----- Original Message -----> From: "Karr Wolfe" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 9:18 AM> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Mas de Villegas> > > Limosna = alms, or dole. Since you are already on the internet, you> might> want to bookmark this online dictionary:> > http://www.tomisimo.org/&gt; > It's free and finds most single words. Unfortunately, it doesn't> recognize> any verb form but the infinitive, and sometimes it fails to find the> plural> forms of words.> > Good luck!> > Karr> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1> >
Thank you Javier, It just occurred to me that this is more than just> learning the meaning of a word, this explains a custom or tradition, I> wonder if it still is recorded that way today in Mexico?> > Linda in Everett> > Javier Garbuno wrote:> "Limosna" means charity. When people (poor people) ask in the streets> for > some coins they said "Me da mi limosna", "una limosnita por el amor de > Dios".> > Also in the churchs the money they collect in the baskets are "La> limosna"> > "Se cas? / bautiz? de limosna" means they didn?t pay to the church for> those > services.> > > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org&gt; > End of General Digest, Vol 26, Issue 15> ***************************************> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Hola Marisela, me llama la atención el nombre que mencionas de la hermana de tu bisabuela Francisca Ibarra, ya que mi tatarabuela se llamaba Alejandra Ibarra de la Torre, pero no tengo noticias de otros hermanos de ella así que no te puedo asegurar que sea ella, y vivía en Tepatitlán, como a una hora de distancia de Guadalajara, pero ella murió hace mucho creo.Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
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Hola Rodolfo,
Como has estado? La línea de los Valdivia que yo conozco son mas morenos que
blancos pero quizás es porque ya se han mezclado con otras familias. Como te
mencioné en mi pasado correo, a según mis datos, si se le hiciera una prueba
de ADN del cromosoma paterno a alguno de esta rama Valdivia de San Miguel el
Alto te darás cuenta que no van a coincidir los resultados con los demás
Valdivia de la región. No sé cuantas personas de este apellido queden dentro
de esta línea pero me imagino que son bastantes.

Te digo esto porque Miguel Ciriaco Valdivia (nuestro ancestro), nacido el 21
de agosto de 1771 en San Miguel el Alto, fue hijo de "padre no conocido" por
lo que tomó el apellido de su madre Ricarda (o Rosalía) Valdivia Sánchez.
Algunas personas que todavía viven me han dicho que JUAN VALDIVIA RODRÍGUEZ
(mi tatarabuelo, bisnieto de MIGUEL CIRIACO VALDIVIA, primo hermano de tu
tatarabuelo CESAREO VALDIVIA DOMÍNGUEZ) era una persona morena de rasgos
indígenas, pero quien sabe.

Las pruebas de ADN las hacen varias compañías de EU y hasta te hacen llegar
el kit de prueba aquí a México. Por lo que me han dicho, uno de las mejores
laboratorios para hacer los análisis es el de www.familytreedna.com.
Yo ya me hice los análisis a través de Sorenson o Relative Genetics, pero lo
malo que como es gratis, no te hacen saber tus resultados como lo hacen los
que te cobran por ellos.

Bueno Rodolfo, espero algún día nos podamos conocer si vienes acá a San
Miguel el Alto o Valle de Guadalupe. Me avisas si vienes por estos rumbos.
Si necesitas algo de la parroquia de San Miguel me avisas.

Hasta luego, que estés bien.

Ricardo

Estimado Jorge:

De acuerdo a lo comentado, el fin de semana pasado estuve en Jalostotitlán y platicando con algunas personas me confirmaron que no existe un archivo historico como tal, unicamente el archivo parroquial.

Tambien me recomendaron contactar a dos historiadores de Jalos: Jose Antonio Gutierrez y Jose Trinidad Padilla Lozano. El primero vive en Aguas y el otro en Guadalajara, ya que ellos han tenido acceso a archivos de particulares para la realizacion de sus libros y nos pudieran orientar.

Espero que en un par de semanas a mas tardar me consigan los numeros telefonicos de Don Toño y Don Trino ya sea que quieras hablar directamente con ellos o que yo te consiga la información, como tú gustes.

Saludos a todos

Juan José Ramírez Ibarra
San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco

Hola Jorge, lo que se que en Jalos hay para investigar
es en la parroquia donde puedes sacar las fe de
bautismo, las actas de matrimonio o de defunsion, hay
un estudio hecho por Lopez Cotilla hacerca de Los
altos de JAlisco por el año 1840 , un estilo censo, y
lo de los testamentosdeberia de estar en el registro
publico de la propiedad en Guadalajara, un saludo para
cualquier cosa estamos en contacto
--- Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
wrote:

>
> Hola amigos, qu¡en me puede decir si en el municipio
> de Jalostotitlán, Jalisco existe algún archivo
> histórico en el que pueda hacer consultas de
> investigación. Me gustaría obtener algunos
> testamentos o en su caso juicios de
> intestamentarios.
>
> Si me pueden decir horarios del archivo mejor.
>
> Por cierto, si decido publicar una investigación,
> sería importante incluir juicios intestamentarios,
> testamentos, contratos, fotografías, claro, además
> de la genealogía de la familia a investigar.
> Necesito opiniones.Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
>
_________________________________________________________________
> ¿Sabes mucho de fútbol? Te retamos. Entra aquí.
> http://club.prodigymsn.com/

Mañana y pasado estaré en Jalos y aunque son dias festivos y el municipio no trabaja, voy a preguntarle a mis suegros y a algunos amigos a ver si existe algo o alguien a quien se pueda recurrir para obtener dicha informacion. Primero Dios, el sabado o Domingo te digo qué investigué.

Saludos a todos,

Juan Jose Ramirez Ibarra
San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco

Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez wrote:

Hola amigos, qu¡en me puede decir si en el municipio de Jalostotitlán, Jalisco existe algún archivo histórico en el que pueda hacer consultas de investigación. Me gustaría obtener algunos testamentos o en su caso juicios de intestamentarios.

Si me pueden decir horarios del archivo mejor.

Por cierto, si decido publicar una investigación, sería importante incluir juicios intestamentarios, testamentos, contratos, fotografías, claro, además de la genealogía de la familia a investigar. Necesito opiniones.Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
¿Sabes mucho de fútbol? Te retamos. Entra aquí.
http://club.prodigymsn.com/

Esperanza... the Sephardic story in Mexico makes from some great socio cultural analysis. Just like your Torah story... Monterrey is filled with many Crypto-Jewish traditions that have faded into the Mainstream Mexican cultural fold... things like Cabrito, Flour Tortillas, and the various Sweets are without a doubt foods of Middle Eastern origin that filtered to modern Mexican culture.

Corrine there is no doubt there is heavy anecdotal evidence to the existence of Sephardic Jews throughout Mexico (most notably in Nuevo Leon of course).

But even in the Jalisco Highlands we can see the physical traits common in the Middle East among many people.... including some of my relatives (unibrow, lots of body hair, long thin noses, pale skin etc.,)... however, this archetype is not unknown among the Celtiberian & Basque populations of Pre-Islam Spain so its not definitive in any way. I have also heard many personal stories (including one involving a maternal great grandmother) of strange traditions such as:

> A different style of veil
> The preparation of unusual flat breads
> Speaking a foreign language
> Practicing unusual mystic traditions

Of course that isn't definitive either because we also know that Jalisco is home to a significant number of people of Lebanese, Syrian, Iraqi & Armenian Catholic / Orthodox ancestry who began imigrating in the late 19th Century to escape violence in the Ottoman empire.

More crudely, my relatives & friends from the joke about Male endowment and joking accuse the other of being afflicted by the "Jewish Curse"

But more seriously, I would suggest participating in the National Geographic's Genome study to determine if you have uniquely Jewish mitochondrial DNA etc.,

Corrine,
I am currently reading a book by Victor Perera, The Cross & the Pear Tree, A Sephardic Journey. He uses his family as an example of what happened to the Sephardim after they were expelled from Spain. It is an easy to read story covering the history of Jews in Spain.
There is also a web site - sephardim.com - which gives family names, crests and locations of Jewish surnames from Spain. I have found several family surnames on this site. Like you, I am just beginning to explore the Sephardic connection.
Hope this helps.
Lucy Sweeney

Corrine,

>From what I can gather, the translation you got is not only "pretty funny"
but full of errors and inaccuracies. By translating word-for-word, most
programs can change the intended meaning of well written documents. Can you
tell me which website about Lagos is the one you referred to in your message
? I may be able to help with the translation.

Bill Figueroa

Hello Corrine -
If you go to the Sephardim.com site at this link http://www.sephardim.com/
you will find lots of information on Sephardic Jews of Spain, New Mexico and other areas in Latin America.
Also you will find surname history, a forum with lots of people who are researching their Sephardic ancestry or are just discovering that they have a Sephardic heritage.
Good luck,
Yolanda

----- Original Message ----
From: Corrine Ardoin
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 3:35:52 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish History

My gg-grandfather Ismael Martin del Campo and his siblings were born in
Lagos de Moreno. I found a website that was in Spanish about Lagos,
but the
English translation made it read pretty funny. From what I could make
out,
it was telling about the Jewish history of Lagos de Moreno. I am very
interested in this as it pertains to my ancestral research and my
desire to
know of my ethnic origins.

>From what I have gathered from this translation, when the Jews were
being
driven out of Spain during Queen Isabella's reign, they were given
the choice to go to New Spain. So, 50 or 60 families of Sephardic Jews
came
to New Spain and established Lagos de Moreno as their colony.
Apparently,
the word "Sephardic" is the Hebrew word for "Spain." So Sephardic Jews
are
Spanish Jews.

Anyways, at this point in my research, it seems I am getting beyond
what my
mother's family knew and am beginning to head into new territory. So,
my
efforts are hit and miss. But, it doesn't discourage me, but instead
makes
it seem more like an exploration.

Does anyone know of a website or book I could look for that would have
more
on this history? In doing my research, the history of the areas
interests
me as much as the family search does.

Corrine Ardoin
Santa Maria, California

Thanks Esther... the interesting thing about your relatives DNA results is how much they match the predicted results based on Surname.

Villareal & Trevino are both among THE most Sephardic names in Mexico... particularly those clans of known Sephardic settlements such as Monterrey.

With regards to other ancestry... Celtic & Greek are both maternal roots of Spanish ancestry.

Wow Alicia sounds like the conference was pretty busy and lots and lots
of fun. What a great experience it was for you all. Wish I could have
been there. Thanks for telling us about it.

Miguel said that there might be a chance to get audio of the conference
so it can be used as a podcast. Was there any discussion of that topic?
Maybe I should email him and ask again.

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

Alicia Carrillo wrote:
> Dear Ranchos members,
>
> Sorry it's taken so long to write and share my experiences with all of you regarding the 3er Conferencia Bi-Niacional Genealogica de Coahuila.
>
> It was an amazing event, much more than I expected. First of all Maria Cortez and I met up with 3 members of Nuestros Ranchos, Mickey Garcia, Josie Treviño and Wellester Alvarado. That was number one on my list, not only because they are Ranchos members and I felt as if I'd already known them but because they were so kind and gracious, taking us under their wing, introducing us to almost everyone as they knew almost everyone.
>
> Josie, Mickey and Wellester..........muchas gracias!!
>
> Because of Josie and Mickey's connections we were able to visit with the Director of the Archivo General del Estado de Coahuila, Miguel Angel Muñoz, Borrego on Friday afternoon at the Archivo General. What warm and gracious people.
>
> We also had the opportunity to meet Benicio Samuel of the group, Genealogia del Norte de Mexico.
>
> The speakers were all impressive but being from Zacatecas I was especially interested in Dr Jose Enciso Contreras' presentation, and I was not disappointed.
> Two of the presenters were from Dallas Tx, the Cuellar brothers gave their presentation dealing primarily with family research how to do it and the dedication and perseverance it takes for anyone who undertakes this daunting, lifelong journey.
> Maestra Marta Duron's presentation was focused on the families originating from Los Altos de Jalisco and her studies and theories as to why so many families from Los Altos inter-married with each other. She used Jalostitlan as her primary area of focus radiating from there to other towns and cities of Los Altos.
>
> All in all it was an uplifting, eye-opening and inspiring conference. Maria and I came away with many new ideas which we hope to bring to our Northern California Group. We have invited Josie and Mickey to come to Northern California to do a presentation for our group and we hope they will accept our invitation.
>
> We were even bolder in that we had dinner with Dr Jose Enciso Contreras and his wife and extended an invitation to them as well and he indicated he would be willing to come and to speak to our group. The Cuellar brothers from Dallas Texas also said they would be willing to come. All in all it was a wonderful experience.
> In the future I can see one of our group leaders, either Joseph Puentes, Arturo Ramos or Jonathan Walker or someone else from Nuestros Ranchos at this convention as a speaker and representative of this ever-growing group. I hope I didn't put foot in mouth by suggesting this but I think all we can do is move forward, not backwards and this would be a big move forward.
>
> Well I'd better get off my box, just thought I would share the highlights of our trip...everything was a highlight, there were no low lights. :)
>
> Saludos a todos.
> Alicia de San Jose, California

Hola Alicia de San Jose ,how are you ? I hope well. My name is Ronnie Reynoso from Claremont,Ca.my people are from Los Altos de Jalisco . I was wondering why did the people of Los Altos intermarry so much.? What was the opinion or theory of the speakers at the conference ? my friend 's people are from Zacatecas (El Durazno) and they too intermarried alot ,would they follow under the same opinion of the speakers ? On my maternal grandfather side which has very strong Indian influence, are also related to everybody else . I'm curious.
thank you for your time
Ronnie Reynoso pariente acsi todos de Los Altos de Jalisco

> Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:21:40 -0700> From: alliecar@pacbell.net> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Conference in Coahuila> > Dear Ranchos members,> > Sorry it's taken so long to write and share my experiences with all of you regarding the 3er Conferencia Bi-Niacional Genealogica de Coahuila.> > It was an amazing event, much more than I expected. First of all Maria Cortez and I met up with 3 members of Nuestros Ranchos, Mickey Garcia, Josie Treviño and Wellester Alvarado. That was number one on my list, not only because they are Ranchos members and I felt as if I'd already known them but because they were so kind and gracious, taking us under their wing, introducing us to almost everyone as they knew almost everyone.> > Josie, Mickey and Wellester..........muchas gracias!!> > Because of Josie and Mickey's connections we were able to visit with the Director of the Archivo General del Estado de Coahuila, Miguel Angel Muñoz, Borrego on Friday afternoon at the Archivo General. What warm and gracious people.> > We also had the opportunity to meet Benicio Samuel of the group, Genealogia del Norte de Mexico.> > The speakers were all impressive but being from Zacatecas I was especially interested in Dr Jose Enciso Contreras' presentation, and I was not disappointed. > Two of the presenters were from Dallas Tx, the Cuellar brothers gave their presentation dealing primarily with family research how to do it and the dedication and perseverance it takes for anyone who undertakes this daunting, lifelong journey.> Maestra Marta Duron's presentation was focused on the families originating from Los Altos de Jalisco and her studies and theories as to why so many families from Los Altos inter-married with each other. She used Jalostitlan as her primary area of focus radiating from there to other towns and cities of Los Altos.> > All in all it was an uplifting, eye-opening and inspiring conference. Maria and I came away with many new ideas which we hope to bring to our Northern California Group. We have invited Josie and Mickey to come to Northern California to do a presentation for our group and we hope they will accept our invitation.> > We were even bolder in that we had dinner with Dr Jose Enciso Contreras and his wife and extended an invitation to them as well and he indicated he would be willing to come and to speak to our group. The Cuellar brothers from Dallas Texas also said they would be willing to come. All in all it was a wonderful experience. > In the future I can see one of our group leaders, either Joseph Puentes, Arturo Ramos or Jonathan Walker or someone else from Nuestros Ranchos at this convention as a speaker and representative of this ever-growing group. I hope I didn't put foot in mouth by suggesting this but I think all we can do is move forward, not backwards and this would be a big move forward.> > Well I'd better get off my box, just thought I would share the highlights of our trip...everything was a highlight, there were no low lights. :)> > Saludos a todos.> Alicia de San Jose, California> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Alicia,

Thanks for the report on the conference. Have a nice Easter. Regards to your husband. It was great meeting you both last year.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 2:21 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Conference in Coahuila

Dear Ranchos members,

Sorry it's taken so long to write and share my experiences with all of you regarding the 3er Conferencia Bi-Niacional Genealogica de Coahuila.

It was an amazing event, much more than I expected. First of all Maria Cortez and I met up with 3 members of Nuestros Ranchos, Mickey Garcia, Josie Treviño and Wellester Alvarado. That was number one on my list, not only because they are Ranchos members and I felt as if I'd already known them but because they were so kind and gracious, taking us under their wing, introducing us to almost everyone as they knew almost everyone.

Josie, Mickey and Wellester..........muchas gracias!!

Because of Josie and Mickey's connections we were able to visit with the Director of the Archivo General del Estado de Coahuila, Miguel Angel Muñoz, Borrego on Friday afternoon at the Archivo General. What warm and gracious people.

We also had the opportunity to meet Benicio Samuel of the group, Genealogia del Norte de Mexico.

The speakers were all impressive but being from Zacatecas I was especially interested in Dr Jose Enciso Contreras' presentation, and I was not disappointed.
Two of the presenters were from Dallas Tx, the Cuellar brothers gave their presentation dealing primarily with family research how to do it and the dedication and perseverance it takes for anyone who undertakes this daunting, lifelong journey.
Maestra Marta Duron's presentation was focused on the families originating from Los Altos de Jalisco and her studies and theories as to why so many families from Los Altos inter-married with each other. She used Jalostitlan as her primary area of focus radiating from there to other towns and cities of Los Altos.

All in all it was an uplifting, eye-opening and inspiring conference. Maria and I came away with many new ideas which we hope to bring to our Northern California Group. We have invited Josie and Mickey to come to Northern California to do a presentation for our group and we hope they will accept our invitation.

We were even bolder in that we had dinner with Dr Jose Enciso Contreras and his wife and extended an invitation to them as well and he indicated he would be willing to come and to speak to our group. The Cuellar brothers from Dallas Texas also said they would be willing to come. All in all it was a wonderful experience.
In the future I can see one of our group leaders, either Joseph Puentes, Arturo Ramos or Jonathan Walker or someone else from Nuestros Ranchos at this convention as a speaker and representative of this ever-growing group. I hope I didn't put foot in mouth by suggesting this but I think all we can do is move forward, not backwards and this would be a big move forward.

Well I'd better get off my box, just thought I would share the highlights of our trip...everything was a highlight, there were no low lights. :)

Saludos a todos.
Alicia de San Jose, California

Hola Alicia ,I didn't see any any articles per say as to what they spoke about,just who was speaking and where .
Ronnie Reynoso pariente acasi todos de Los Altos> Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 15:28:37 -0700> From: alliecar@pacbell.net> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Link to the conference> > I had planned to include the link that gives a brief overview of the conference. I hope this link works. I accessed it on google by typing in conferencia bi-nacional.> > Alicia Carrillo,> de San Jose, Calif> > http://www.coahuila.gob.mx/hub.php/noticia/index.htm?preid=3004&gt; -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Dear Raquel,

Two weeks ago Maria Cortez and I attended a Genealogical conference in Coahuila, Saltillo Mexico. It was said to be in Ramos Arizpe but was actually in Saltillo.
There was a professor with a doctorate in history from Universidad Autonoma de Zacatecas, his name is Doctor Jose Enciso Contreras. He stated that most everyone from the northern states of Mexico such as Chihuahua, Durango, Coahuila and Nuevo Leon can be traced back to Zacatecas. For one, Nochistlan was the first Guadalajara which is where the early Spanish colonizers first settled, secondly because of the mines in Zacatecas, Zacatecas because of the mines became the magnet for many of the early colonizers and from there they migrated north even into the United States such as Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California.

Maria and I have much to share with all of Nuestros Ranchos, regarding our fantastic trip to Coahuila. Maybe I will have time to do that this weekend.

One of the pluses to our trip was meeting up with 3 other members of Ranchos, Mickey Garcia, Josie Treviño and Wellester Alvarado. They were all so gracious and welcoming. I will tell you more about them this weekend.

Felices Pascuas..........Happy Easter!!

----- Original Message ----
From: RaquelRuiz
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 5:37:49 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecans in Durango

I came across 2 Zacatecan families last night when searching civil birth records in Panuco de Coronado, Durango, while doing some research on my paternal grandmother's line. I noted them just in case they are of value to anyone in the group. It was an Oct 25, 1898 posting for the birth of Maria Teresa de Jesus Soto. Parents were Solome Soto, 20, and Maria Josefa Sauzedo, 15. Paternal abuelos were Cresencio Soto, deceased, and Maria Eulalia Guay, 38. Maternal abuelos were Julian Sauzedo, 40, and Maria Lecaria Sauzedo, 38. Parents and grandparents all from Zacatecas.