Nuestros Ranchos Site

Joseph:

I think genealogical standards would require that people list ancestors' names the way that they listed them themselves. Even spellings should ideally be kept in the original. (Obviously there are many cases where different priests would spell the same name differently so then we are forced to choose).

Thus in modern times, anyone born in Mexico has the naming convention of which you speak, which I think is actually by law Given Name(s), Paternal Last Name, Maternal Last Name.

However, this is a recent convention as as you go back in time you will find that people often used their maternal last names, often even the surname of a grandparent not borne by either of the parents. In such cases, we need to keep to the naming conventions of the time and use the names actually used by the person.

See the thread about this at:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15108

Yolanda:

It is highly unlikely that people did not baptize their children, even if they were poor, even if they had to go far to the church and even if they moved around a lot. Until the civil registry was instituted, it was the only legal recordation of someone's birth and people in Mexico were very devout. I am always amazed when I see a baptism of a four or five day old child from the 1700s who was baptized 20 or 30 miles from the rancho where he was born.

Sierra Mojada was a municipality in the district of Monclava, Coahuila according to Cuba's Diccionario Geografico. The town was founded in 1879 due to the discovery of silver and copper deposits in the area. At the time of Cuba's books publication the population was 1879 inhabitants... which is sizeable.

The civil registry for the year that your gradfather was born exists on film:
Nacimientos 1901-1906 FHL INTL Film 1101607 and there is a great possibility it lists his grandparents' names.

Check out this link. I think that if you can get in touch with this man, he may be able to help you find records. I have a suspicion that the Family History Library doesn't have church records for the area, but that does not mean they do not exist. There is definitely a church in the town and the population exploded in the 1890s to over 10,000 people... they could not have gone without a church with that population:

http://www.coahuila.gob.mx/conozca/hub.php/cronistas-coahuilenses/sierr…

Yolanda:

If you have credible evidence that Blas Gutierrez was born in La Sauceda de la Borda, Zacatecas, then you should start by identifying what church he might have been baptized in. La Sauceda used to be a municipality in Zacatecas (look at the Cubas Diccionario Geografico from the links section of the site and look up simply "Sauceda"). There is no such municipality now, though from my meager research it looks like La Sauceda would now be part of Veta Grande.

If you look in the familysearch.org website and look up Sauceda de la Borda, you will note that the local parish is San Juan Bautista and that they have the following films for the region:

Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1861-1862, 1867- 1869, 1876-1884
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1884-1896
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1896-1917
Información matrimonial 1869-1871, 1877-1880
Información matrimonial 1880-1884
Información matrimonial 1884-1889
Información matrimonial 1890-1900

That means that the parrish did not exist when your ancestor was born in 1844 and he would have had to been baptized in a nearby town's parrish... perhaps Panuco or Vetagrande?

Vetagrande's records begin in 1756 but they are missing baptism records for the 1840 and 1850s...

Panuco's records begin even earlier in 1684, but they are likewise missing baptism records for most of the 1840s...

I would suspect that your ancestor was in one of those two church's baptism records but they are now lost or destroyed and that is why you are having so much trouble finding him. Do you know if he was married in Mexico or the United States?

Blas is a full name, not a nickname. I also have an ancestor named Blas Gutierrez:

http://www.ramosfamily.org/nextgen/getperson.php?personID=I414

Natalie,

I once xeroxed a whole film at our FHC because it was so hard to read, even with a magnifying glass. I thought I could just read it better at home using a magnifying glass, and I was able to do that. I wanted that film so bad that I didn't blink at the $60.00 cost to copy it. I later did index it for myself to make it easier down the line to search for things in it. I would never sell it, only do look-ups for my relatives.

Shortly after I xeroxed it, the director of the FHC put up a sign stating that if anyone xeroxed a whole film, they would lose their library privileges. I guess when she was reviewing the records of money taken in, she noticed the $60.00 tab and asked her assistants about it. There was no mention of possible prosecution, etc. That would only happen if someone subversively copied it and sold it for their own profit.

I later asked the director why we couldn't copy a whole film to keep at home, and she mentioned the contracts with the legal owners of the original records. She said the FHCs did not want to be told later that they could no longer microfilm records if someone had copied and sold the records. She herself has extracted for her records most of the films she uses; she sits in front of the reader and enters information onto her laptop, so there is not restriction on extracting portions. She also ordered a reader that magnifies the films 60X and now I can read them all easily.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ----
----- Original Message -----
From: nc_coleman
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 6:51 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] LDS film - "Warning"

I am hoping the subject line is NOT alarming - I just wasn't quite sure how title my query.
Anyway ... I was @ my local FHC on Tues./Jan 9 to view a film I had ordered before the holidays.
On the box was a sticker message that I don't recall ever seeing before (see below):
"WARNING!
By contract between the Genealogical Society of Utah (GSU) and the owner(s) of some or all of the included records, this microfilm may not be
SOLD, DUPLICATED, EXTRACTED, or INDEXED
except under limited circumstances.
For further information contact FAMILY HISTORY CENTER SUPPORT, SLC, Utah
VIOLATION OF SUCH RESTRICTION(S) MAY RESULT IN CIVIL OR CRIMINAL LIABILITY!"

Note: I looked at some of the other film boxes in the drawers, and not all of them had this notice.
So - does anyone know about this "Warning"? I did not make an inquiry about this while at the FHC.

Thanks for any enlightenment you can provide.

Natalie in Virginia
Researching: CASTRO, GARCIA, DUENAS, DURAN, and others in the Valparaiso District, Sain Alto, and Sombrerete of ZACATECAS

I've seen messages similar if not exactly as you describe and its my
understanding that the LDS church has some kind of agreement with the
party that supplied the records on the microfilms. Not all agreements
are exactly the same (I could be wrong about this part). So that might
explain why some have the warning and others don't.

Maybe some of the others can comment as I'm not 100% I'm right about this.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

nc_coleman wrote:
> I am hoping the subject line is NOT alarming - I just wasn't quite sure how title my query.
> Anyway ... I was @ my local FHC on Tues./Jan 9 to view a film I had ordered before the holidays.
> On the box was a sticker message that I don't recall ever seeing before (see below):
> "WARNING!
> By contract between the Genealogical Society of Utah (GSU) and the owner(s) of some or all of the included records, this microfilm may not be
> SOLD, DUPLICATED, EXTRACTED, or INDEXED
> except under limited circumstances.
> For further information contact FAMILY HISTORY CENTER SUPPORT, SLC, Utah
> VIOLATION OF SUCH RESTRICTION(S) MAY RESULT IN CIVIL OR CRIMINAL LIABILITY!"
>
> Note: I looked at some of the other film boxes in the drawers, and not all of them had this notice.
> So - does anyone know about this "Warning"? I did not make an inquiry about this while at the FHC.
>
> Thanks for any enlightenment you can provide.
>
> Natalie in Virginia
> Researching: CASTRO, GARCIA, DUENAS, DURAN, and others in the Valparaiso District, Sain Alto, and Sombrerete of ZACATECAS

Alicia:
It is not you, I received the same error message.

very nice thanks for doing that. Here is the URL for that document:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15482

muchisimas,

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

MariaCortez wrote:
> Hello Ranchos members:
>
> I created a document with instructions on creating Rich Text Format (.rtf) files from PAF reports. I put it in the Reference Materials folder.
>
> If something isn't clear, please give me your feedback and I will try to make the instructions clearer.
>
> Maria Cortez

Dear Joseph:
I took another look at the records on the Valle de Guadalupe film and the scribe that wrote Catarina Jauregui's origin only wrote around 7 records on that film. All of the "A's" were the loopy kind and not the pointed Ojo de Agua.

However, I found a record in San Miguel from my early searches where the Ojo de Agua was written two different ways. Obviously a different person might have been writing in the margin than that of the baptismal document, but curiously the "m" in the margin matches the "m" in the document. The San Miguel document is the baptism of Miguel Gutierrez Martin 1895 son of Julian Gutierrez and Macaria? Martin if anyone is interested in it, it is entitled Ojo de Agua San Miguel.

The next document is a Valle de Guadalupe baptism of Maria Gavina Sanchez Vazquez 1912. Here it lists the padrinos being from the rancho of Ojo de Agua. If anyone is interested in viewing it is entitled Ojo de Agua Valle de Guadalupe.

Although there were probably many Ojo de Aguas, I feel that San Miguel El Alto, Valle de Guadalupe and San Juan Los Lagos, being in close together, this may be the same ranch. I am not sure how close Santo Maria de Los Angeles is as I have not located nearby on the map.

Here is the link for the new documents:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15427

Dear Linda:
It is not the method of DNA collecting, it is more about not wanting to do the genealogy. My husband is just not into it. We know about the easy mouth swab and do-it-yourself through the mail. He just does not see the use.

Maureen

thank you Joseph...

Joseph Puentes wrote:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Nuestros Ranchos] Yaqui Tribe]
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 18:30:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Gary Felix
To: Joseph Puentes

Hi Joseph,
there is no way to tell definitively. It is most likely Yaqui would be
similar to the Native Americans of the southwestern
United States. That would be more likely mtdna B and maybe C3 for ydna.
Although anything is possible.
Matches to this area (Sonora) would help in this regard.

Least likely would be mtdna D.

Gary

*/Joseph Puentes /* wrote:

Gary How do I go about explaining this?

joseph

--------
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Dear Yolanda--

I am glad that you have had such good luck in Ayotlan
finding the Duenas line. On my next visit to the FHC
here, I will see what Ayo el Chico films I have on
indefinite loan and what more I can learn for you. I
do have some of the very earliest films of that area.
Unfortunately some are quite hard to read but one can
find a way to get information if one works hard.

I will try through my contacts in Santa Rita, to find
someone who knows more about the history of Ayo el
Chico. I do have some books but they are very general
in nature. I am hoping to visit for a short time this
spring and then for a longer time in December. Do you
have any old maps of the area? Did you have a chance
to see what the town's library is like and what is
available?

Thanks for emailing so quickly.

Sincerely,
Patricia "Diane" Godinez

--- Yolanda Ochoa wrote:

> Hello Patricia -
> I have been to Ayo El Chico also about 4 years ago
> when my husband and I took my mother there for the
> first time. In fact she was the first in her family
> to ever visit Ayo El Chico. We videotaped and
> photographed the whole event which I would like to
> turn into a documentary some day. I've been to Ayo
> El Chico twice. We made fast friends with the
> notary at the local church called La Nuestra Senora
> de la Soledad. Every time we have visited we made
> a donation to the church and brought some nice
> candys for the notary. They know me pretty well at
> the church now as I corresponded with a nice notary
> named Josefina who always did some research for me.
> On my last trip they allowed me to use my scanner to
> copy some records. I was very careful handling
> these very old parish records. You probably know
> more about the history of Ayo El Chico than I do and
> would very much like any info. that you might have
> on this area.
>
> These are the names that I found per my Duenas line:
> Found these on Batch No: M604479 Source Call No:
> 0280789
> Jose Casimiro Duenas Christened: Mar 11, 1809, San
> Agustin, Ayo El Chico, Jal. Mexico
> Parents are:
> Juan de los Santos Duenas & Maria Antonia Abad de
> Jesus Damiana Olmos married Feb. 23, 1784 San
> Agustin, Ayo El Chico, Jal. Mexico
> Children of Juan and Maria Antonia are:
> Maria Jacinta Duenas born 1816 in La Agua Caliente,
> Jal. Mex., marries Juan Pablo Navarro on Feb. 19,
> 1835 in San Agustin, Ayo El Chico, Jal. Mex.
>
> Maria Ynes Duenas born 1815 (don't know local yet),
> marries Mateo Aguilar on Feb. 12, 1840, San Agustin,
> Ayo El Chico, Jal. Mex.
>
> Gregoria Duenas born 1800 (don't know local yet),
> marries Jose Senon Rodrigues on Feb. 8, 1815, San
> Agustin, Ayo El Chico, Jal. Mex.
>
> Jose Maria Duenas born 1795 (don't know local yet),
> marries Juana Gertrudis Camargo on April 19, 1815,
> Ayo El Chico, Jal. Mex.
>
> Jose Perfecto Duenas (no birth year or local yet),
> marries Antonia Gutierres on July 26, 1815, Ayo El
> Chico, Jal. Mex.
>
> Nasaria Duenas born 1802 (don't know year or local
> yet), marries Jose Rosalino Camargo on Oct. 30,
> 1822, Ayo El Chico, Jal. Mex.
>
> Check out batch M604481 where a line of Duenas can
> be found in Santa Rita. Perhaps there is a
> connection?? I didn't search for any offspring yet
> for any of these Duenas as I am still trying to
> trace the direct Luna line.
> Let me know if I can provide more info.
> Yolanda
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: patricia burton
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2007 6:22:36 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jose Casimiro DUENAS
>
> Dear Yolanda--
>
> I just read your information and found it very
> exciting. My husband and I returned from almost 3
> weeks vacation in Jalisco, Mexico on Thursday. We
> spent 2 days in Guadalajara before going out to the
> countryside.
>
> Most of my research for my husband who is a GODINEZ
> Garcia has been in the ranchos of Atotonilco el
> Alto,
> which is the municipio right next to the Municipio
> of
> Ayotlan. In the past, it was called Ayo el Chico.
> The majority of the time we spent renovating the
> family home which is located in Santa Rita, Ayotlan,
> Jalisco. While at the Guadalajara airport, I bought
> a
> map of Jalisco and to my dismay found it did not
> show
> Santa Rita, a small town of about 5,000 people. It
> did show other nearby places and some of those are
> even smaller than Santa Rita.
>
> I have one Casimiro DUENAS for whom I am looking.
> He
> is listed as the father of Jose Refugio DUENAS. He
> was not married to the mother of Jose Refugio. She
> was listed as Rafaela LUQUE. The information on the
> parents of this illigitimate child comes from the
> marriage record of Jose Refugio DUENAS and his wife,
> Bernardina del Refugio CHOLICO. They wed in
> Atotonilco el Alto on 26 April 1882. Most of the
> time, it seems that she used the name of Refugio
> CHOLICO and her birthdate was 20 May 1862 in
> Salitrillo, Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico.
> Other inportant family names on the tree of
> Bernardina
> del Refugio are SEPULVEDA and MONTANO.
>
> I have been looking for Calixta DUENAS born about
> 1857
> in Valle, , Jalisco for almost 30 years. She was
> the
> daughter of Anastacio DUENAS and Vicenta LOMELIN.
> Except for Calixta's marriage to Fermin GUTIERREZ on
> 10 Feb 1876 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, I have
> not
> been able to go any further back, only forward.
> Apparently she was an orphan and I have not been
> able
> to find birth, marriage, nor death information on
> her
> parents.
>
> If you have any further information on DUENAS lines
> in
> the Ayo el Chico or Atotonilco el Alto areas, I
> would
> like to hear about it.
>
> I work at a Family History Center each week and I
> will
> take your names along for those of the Ayo el Chico
> area. I have a number of films on indefinte loan
> and
> some cover the earlier years. I also have the 1930
> Census of Ayo el Chico, which is a very good
> starting
> point for researching. I will see if I can add
> anything to what you have listed which seems to be
> excellent.
>
> I wish you well and hope to hear from you soon.
>
> Patricia Diane Godinez AKA Patricia Burton
> San Diego, Ca.
>
> PS The GUTIERREZ names I have researched are from
> Nochistlan, Zacatecas.
>
> --- Yolanda Ochoa wrote:
>
> > Hello Joseph,
> > Here is my maternal family history per the group's
> > request:
> > 1)
> >
> > My grandparents:
> > Petra Zuniga Luna:
> > B: May 23, 1902, Ayo El Chico, Jalisco Mexico, D:
> > Sept. 14, 1991, Los Angeles, California
> > Lorenzo Cisneros Gutierrez:
> > B: Aug. 10, 1895, Sierra Mojada, Coahuila Mexico,
> D:
> > Sept. 22, 1975
> > Marriage date: July 22, 1919, Los Angeles,
> > California
> > 2) My great grandparents:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Francisco Duenas Luna
> >
> > B: Oct. 4, 1881 Ayo El Chico, Jalisco, Mexico,
> >
> > D :Feb. 8, 1958 in Imperial Valley, Calif.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mercedes Gutierrez Zuniga:
> > B: Sept. 24, 1878 in Ayo El Chico, Jalisco,
> > Mexico
> >
> >
> > D: May 22,1966, Imperial Valley, Calif.
> >
> > 3) Both sets of great great grandparents:
> >
> >
> > Felix Alvarez Zuniga
> > & Victoria Gonzales Gutierrez
> >
> >
> > Married
> > June 2, 1875 in Ayo El Chico, Jalisco Mexico
> >
>
=== message truncated ===

I agree with Alicia. In order to keep it manageable for everyone doing their major research in the three states, we need to focus only on those three states. I have found contacts for the other states through other websites and through Rootsweb country and state forums.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ----
----- Original Message -----
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 9:33 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nayarit ???

Joseph,

I think you are about to open a big can of frijoles(beans) with talk of opening it up to other states. Once those beans are out you won't know what to do with them and you will again be muy cansado!!! and none of us want that. What will happen is someone will say, pues mira nomas /look here, if he let Nayarit in maybe he can consider Chihuahua or Guanajuato.
We would all like to expand further but as you said before, there are other groups where we can do that. Ya Basta Jose, no mas estados !!! That's my vote and I'm sticking to my frijoles, or was that guns. Nothing against Nayarit mind you............but we can still include other states in our discussions as they weave in and out of Jal, Aguas and Zac, enough said, Ya callate Alicia antes de que metas la pata en el bote de frijoles.

Adios

----- Original Message ----
From: Joseph Puentes >
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org; Bill Figueroa >
Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2007 3:20:00 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nayarit: was: Trip to Jalisco, Aguascalientes and Zacatecas

Not boring at all in fact very very interesting. . .I envy the richness
of the details you have in your genealogy. I have dates and not nearly
so far back. thank you for sharing.

talking about Guatemala. . .one of your countrymen, Guillermo Castañeda
Lee did a podcast for the http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com podcast
project. Have a listen: http://nuestrafamiliaunida.com/genealogy/other.html

thanks for sharing and who knows but we might need to open the door a
bit wider to include Tepic or would it be all of Nayarit? No my history
is lacking terribly in some areas. maybe we can have you send in more
material that would support the resolution to open the group to consider
Tepic (Nayarit). I've never been opposed to hearing a good argument and
the evidence to support it. Since this message really falls into the
category of research in our area of research I'm moving it over to the
research@nuestrosranchos.org list

thanks Alicia,

I value your opinion. I do seem to have a tendency to complain about the
load getting to heavy while at the same time adding more projects. I
doubt that the Nayarit area will be added to the area of research any
time soon. I would think a simple majority of those active in the group
would be necessary to make a change like this. so if the past is any
indication of the future I know how hard it is to get folks to
participate in simple votes of this nature. So later we can revisit this
and take a simple vote. At that time or at anytime in the future if you
all decide with a simple 51% vote to change we'll do it, but I'm not
going to hold my breath.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Alicia Carrillo wrote:
> Joseph,
>
> I think you are about to open a big can of frijoles(beans) with talk of opening it up to other states. Once those beans are out you won't know what to do with them and you will again be muy cansado!!! and none of us want that. What will happen is someone will say, pues mira nomas /look here, if he let Nayarit in maybe he can consider Chihuahua or Guanajuato.
> We would all like to expand further but as you said before, there are other groups where we can do that. Ya Basta Jose, no mas estados !!! That's my vote and I'm sticking to my frijoles, or was that guns. Nothing against Nayarit mind you............but we can still include other states in our discussions as they weave in and out of Jal, Aguas and Zac, enough said, Ya callate Alicia antes de que metas la pata en el bote de frijoles.
>
> Adios
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Joseph Puentes
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org; Bill Figueroa
> Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2007 3:20:00 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nayarit: was: Trip to Jalisco, Aguascalientes and Zacatecas
>
>
> Not boring at all in fact very very interesting. . .I envy the richness
> of the details you have in your genealogy. I have dates and not nearly
> so far back. thank you for sharing.
>
> talking about Guatemala. . .one of your countrymen, Guillermo Castañeda
> Lee did a podcast for the http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com podcast
> project. Have a listen: http://nuestrafamiliaunida.com/genealogy/other.html
>
> thanks for sharing and who knows but we might need to open the door a
> bit wider to include Tepic or would it be all of Nayarit? No my history
> is lacking terribly in some areas. maybe we can have you send in more
> material that would support the resolution to open the group to consider
> Tepic (Nayarit). I've never been opposed to hearing a good argument and
> the evidence to support it. Since this message really falls into the
> category of research in our area of research I'm moving it over to the
> research@nuestrosranchos.org list

Message for José Muñoz,

Thank you for the information about your forthcoming trip to Mexico. I went
to Aguascalientes last March 30th, just days before the "Feria de San
Marcos" started in late April. It runs for a few weeks and at that time it
is difficult to book rooms in the major hotels. The fair attracts
visitors from all over Mexico. I stayed at the Calinda-Francia Hotel right
in the heart of town, and either walked or took taxi cabs for the first few
days. Then, I rented a car during the weekend (all the major companies rent
cars at the airport). Be sure to stop at the Tourist Office on the main
plaza and to take the city tour to familiarize yourself with the streets and
historical sites. On Saturday I drove to Rincón de Romos, Hda. del Pabellón
and the new San José de Gracia. The old town is underwater due to
construction of a dam and reservoir in 1927. I also visited several other
towns and ranches north of Aguascalientes. Then on Sunday I drove south and
visited Teocaltiche, Nochistlán, Mexticacán, and stopped at several other
towns along the way. Interesting country. On my next trip I plan to visit
Zacatecas and other areas further north, plus Calvillo and maybe Lagos de
Moreno. I have been to Guadalajara and other points west in Jalisco and
Nayarit (not of interest to our group, but my Ruiz de Esparza ancestors
moved to Tepic in the 1840s). I look forward to reading about your trip.

Bill Figueroa

----- Original Message -----
From: "jose munoz"
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:48 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Trip to Jalisco, Aguas Calientes and Zacatecas

> Message for Helyn...Anna is aware of your request. We
> will respond asap.
>
> Message for Bill Figueroa,
> In respond to your request please reference announce
> Digest, Vol 7, Issue 13, dated Sat. 26 Aug 2006. Our
> adventure begins from Guadalajara, and will follow the
> route proposed by Alicia Carrillo in August 2006. I
> will gather data, photos, books, hotels rates,
> distance, fares-bus and cabs, best routes, etc....
> Genealogical references, Municipal records. I will
> indeed look into your request.
>
> Jose Munoz
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

I wanted to share with the group another interesting DNA find in my family. My son in law was always told he was Yaqui on his fathers side and Spanish on his mothers side. His physical appearance made both claims seem correct. He knew his paternal Moreno line was from Pitiquito Sonora, he got his DNA results back and they are E3A, African. We know that that line also shows in Puerto Rico from the slave trade in early 1500's but most American Blacks are also E3A so that complicates finding his lineage even more. Was his Moreno ancestor a runaway America slave or an African slave brought to Mexico?

I would really like to encourage members in this group to have their DNA and MTDNA done to be able to fully reclaim their history and heritage. I know mine so far has been full of surprise's from my mtdna being Group A, Native American to my maternal grandfather Gutierrez being Group N, Siberian or Native American, still unknown.. I'm in the process of having my fathers Castanon line done so what will that bring? Paper work and genetics, what a wonderful match!
Linda in Everett

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Natalie,

I am the family elder (female) of my generation, and I have been thinking about my "role". It is a scary thought. I would be in that position until my own demise, sort of like Queen Eliz or the Pope, ha, ha. In fact, one of my younger cousins recently asked me if I would become the family matriarch when my Aunt Emilia (my mother's sister), the last of her generation at 93, dies, and I told her that that would be the custom in the old days when people never moved, when they stayed in the same community forever. However, it is becoming more and more difficult to even have family reunions, since we are spread from coast to coast and even as far as China now, and it is up to the ones who stayed in the family place of origin to organize things. When my aunt goes, our ties to that place will be gone forever, unless some of us choose to relocate there. Those with children and grandchildren won't be willing to do that.

So, I guess I better cultivate someone of the generation below me to continue the quest and be the repository for all the family history I have been able to gather. I do have one cousin who is older than me who would be the family patriarch, but he, like many men, is not interested in genealogy. He is still a working cop in California and on New Year's was still wrestling drunks and druggies at his age of 71! Even if he ever retires, I don't think he would want to develop the clerical skills to do this work. I do have two younger female cousins that are interested in family history but seem reluctant to spend the time to do the tedious work involved with the genealogy. My own sister, who has similar skills and interest, would do it, I guess, but her time is taken up baby-sitting her grandchildren in Las Vegas.

In this day and age, I guess we just have to post as much info on-line at WorldConnect or Ancestry and in groups like this (thank goodness for the Internet) and hope that someone of our younger relatives down the line will find it and build on it if possible.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
From: nc_coleman
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 1:46 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] The role of family elder

A few days before Christmas my aunt (age 80 yrs - but she thinks I don't know how old she is) had a mild stroke. Fortunately the rescue units arrived promptly and she received immediate care. She is currently in a rehabilitation center receiving various therapies. My aunt is the last of her generation - she is my late father's youngest sister. Unlike my father, she did not have a deep interest or curiosity regarding family history, though she has shared some of her memories with me when I have made inquiries - however, I don't always remember to phrase questions "properly", that is, to ilicit an informative response.
Now - it just occured to me that when she dies (which I don't expect to happen soon), I WILL BECOME the family elder, as I am the eldest of the family of my generation - kind of a scary thought.
SO - are any of YOU the FAMILY ELDER? How do you feel about that role? I guess I better get cracking on my research.

Just my 2 centavos.

Natalie

Hi there Natalie ,

Good question , I have looked at it this way I am not the eldest in my clan I'm in the middle but , I am the one that is in the quest of the family genes and history . Although I feel like the eldest at times . I'm the one that everyone always comes to for advice and stuff even my parents !

The answer to your question is for me it feels GREAT ! Even though I'm the only one doing research I am more than happy to pass it along to the rest of the family cuz I know later on someone will want to see it or maybe even thiere kids would like to see it , either way I'm putting it out there for all to see whenever they feel a hankering to do it .

Welester

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> From: nc_coleman@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:46:09 -0800> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] The role of family elder> > > A few days before Christmas my aunt (age 80 yrs - but she thinks I don't know how old she is) had a mild stroke. Fortunately the rescue units arrived promptly and she received immediate care. She is currently in a rehabilitation center receiving various therapies. My aunt is the last of her generation - she is my late father's youngest sister. Unlike my father, she did not have a deep interest or curiosity regarding family history, though she has shared some of her memories with me when I have made inquiries - however, I don't always remember to phrase questions "properly", that is, to ilicit an informative response.> Now - it just occured to me that when she dies (which I don't expect to happen soon), I WILL BECOME the family elder, as I am the eldest of the family of my generation - kind of a scary thought.> SO
- are an
y of YOU the FAMILY ELDER? How do you feel about that role? I guess I better get cracking on my research.> > Just my 2 centavos.> > Natalie> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
Get into the holiday spirit, chat with Santa on Messenger.
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/santabot/default.aspx?locale=e…

Happy New Year to you also Natalie.

Look at George Ryskamps book "Finding Your Hispanic Roots" and it goes
into what material is best to record from a document you have
discovered. I've uploaded three pages (161-163) from the book for you to
look at in the Albums area of the group. in the "Misc Records and Other"
album under George Ryskamp: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15458

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

nc_coleman wrote:
> The last ten days of December were crazy-busy around here - what with trying to get ready for our Christmas celebrations, shopping, going to grandkids programs, baking, shopping, getting ready for houseguests (daughter, SIL, 2 beautiful grand-daughters, ages 3-1/2 and 1-1/2), did I mention shopping... anyway - I wasn't taking time to read the Ranchos messages. So today - I finally took time (about the last 3-1/2 hours) to read all of the messages - what wonderful and inspiring messages. As I read some of the messages pertaining to travel, I was wondering how the plans for the RANCHOS RESEARCH trip were progressing - is that still a go? I know I can't participate this year - too many commitments for 2007 already - but I sure would like to hear about what's in the works.
> As for me - I just called the local FHC, and films I ordered in mid-Nov are finally in - so I hope to view them soon. FYI - I have the following films: # 1164728 (Reg. Parroquiales, la Purisima, Valparaiso, Zac., Bautismos, 1870-1876); and #1164741 (same location, Informacion Matrimonial, 1878-1892). It has been quite a while since I have looked at films - and I wonder if you have some tips to share about the BEST way to RECORD INFORMATION from the films, and the BEST way to COMPILE the information. Please share your RESEARCH ideas/methods that work - I am always looking for ways to work smarter (not harder). Y'all take care - may you experience many blessings this year.
>
> Natalie Castro Coleman
> Researching: CASTRO, DUENAS, DURAN, GARCIA, LOPEZ, MARTINEZ in El Astillero, San Miguel, and San Mateo (Valparaiso Dist., Zacatecas); and Sain Alto and Sombrerete, Zacatecas