A 1817 Moyahua marriage dispensation of Manuela Reynoso and Calixtro Ocampo has lineage that proves at least one Reynoso branch back back to Diego Reynoso Padilla-Davila (born 1634)and Margartia Rente
Solid work. Thank you!
Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
Does anyone know who the parents of Maria de Escoto are who's married to
Miguel Gonzales de Rubalcaba?
Hi Danny
I would guess she's the daughter of Francisca Escoto y Tovar and Isidro de Villalobos, born in Feb 1694:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-64V7-73Q?i=321&wc=M6Q6-J29…
Chris
From: Danny Alonso
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 7:55 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Maria de escoto
Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
Does anyone know who the parents of Maria de Escoto are who's married to
Miguel Gonzales de Rubalcaba? she's probably born aroun 1700 or a
little earlier maybe
Danny C. Alonso
Thank you Chris. that makes sense.
Danny C. Alonso
Hello my name is Rosario Tiscareño. I am very happy to be part of this group. My paternal family is from Aguascalientes.
Welcome. I have been mapping out the Tiscarenos, Rodriguez, Contreras for the last year. If you go to www.Familysearch.org and look up the following ID L6V7-36Z for encarnacion you will find Encarnacion Tiscareno to Captain Juan Tiscareno de Molina in the 1600. After that the records on Familysearch become murky because many people add their knowledge of the these famous people and many do not agree on who belongs to whom.
There are a few snags that need to be cleared because in the 1730 there are several Antonio's, records that don't match with a deceased parent and possibly two same name women married to different name husbands during the same period who the husbands are married to two sisters and one who had 3 wives etc. There needs more research and there are records for Encarnacion to be merged.
Sarod,
how do you look up that ID? where do you put that number, I've never known
how to look up ID on family search.
Danny C. Alonso
On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:00 PM, wrote:
> Welcome. I have been mapping out the Tiscarenos, Rodriguez, Contreras for
> the
> last year. If you go to www.Familysearch.org and look up the following ID
> L6V7-36Z for encarnacion you will find Encarnacion Tiscareno to Captain
> Juan Tiscareno de Molina in the 1600. After that the records on
> Familysearch
> become murky because many people add their knowledge of the these famous
> people and many do not agree on who belongs to whom. There are a few snags
> that need to be cleared because in the 1730 there are several Antonio's,
> records that don't match with a deceased parent and possibly two same name
> women married to different name husbands during the same period who the
> husbands are married to two sisters and one who had 3 wives etc. There
> needs
> more research and there are records for Encarnacion to be merged.
>
Each person gets an ID when created and you can locate a person with their name enter in the Find or enter an ID which is more precise because familysearch will not always give all names or even the same search of people.
Step 1. Sign into www.Familysearch.org you will see the home page with choices
Step 2. The choices are Family Tree Menu Search Indexing
(CLICK Family Tree)
Step 3. A drop down menu will appear after clicking on Family Tree title and choose
FIND
Step 4. The FIND feature will go to default of searching by NAME, next to it is FIND BY ID
Step 5. Enter the 7 digit number as it appears L6V7-36Z
Step 6. CLICK FIND
Step 7. Encarnacion Tiscareno will appear. hover over with your mouse to the name and
CLICK
Step 8. A new window will appear with the person's profile click on the name and your at the complete profile and family/resources
Thank you Sarod. I wasn't aware that you were able to search that way.
Danny C. Alonso
On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 5:45 PM, wrote:
> Each person gets an ID when created and you can locate a person with their
> name enter in the Find or enter an ID which is more precise because
> familysearch will not always give all names or even the same search of
> people. Step 1. Sign into www.Familysearch.org you will see the home page
> with choices Step 2. The choices are Family Tree Menu Search Indexing
> (CLICK
> Family Tree) Step 3. A drop down menu will appear after clicking on Family
> Tree title and choose FIND Step 4. The FIND feature will go to default of
> searching by NAME, next to it is FIND BY ID Step 5. Enter the 7 digit
> number
> as it appears L6V7-36Z Step 6. CLICK FIND Step 7. Encarnacion Tiscareno
> will
> appear. hover over with your mouse to the name and CLICK Step 8. A new
> window
> will appear with the person's profile click on the name and your at the
> complete profile and family/resources
>
Thank you Sarod. I wasn't aware that you were able to search that way.
Danny C. Alonso
On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 5:45 PM, wrote:
> Each person gets an ID when created and you can locate a person with their
> name enter in the Find or enter an ID which is more precise because
> familysearch will not always give all names or even the same search of
> people. Step 1. Sign into www.Familysearch.org you will see the home page
> with choices Step 2. The choices are Family Tree Menu Search Indexing
> (CLICK
> Family Tree) Step 3. A drop down menu will appear after clicking on Family
> Tree title and choose FIND Step 4. The FIND feature will go to default of
> searching by NAME, next to it is FIND BY ID Step 5. Enter the 7 digit
> number
> as it appears L6V7-36Z Step 6. CLICK FIND Step 7. Encarnacion Tiscareno
> will
> appear. hover over with your mouse to the name and CLICK Step 8. A new
> window
> will appear with the person's profile click on the name and your at the
> complete profile and family/resources
>
Can you upload a sample page showing where this ID # appears?
Thanks,
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: sarod77@hotmail.com
> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 17:45:43 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familysearch using ID number
>
> Each person gets an ID when created and you can locate a person with their
> name enter in the Find or enter an ID which is more precise because
> familysearch will not always give all names or even the same search of
> people. Step 1. Sign into www.Familysearch.org you will see the home page
> with choices Step 2. The choices are Family Tree Menu Search Indexing (CLICK
> Family Tree) Step 3. A drop down menu will appear after clicking on Family
> Tree title and choose FIND Step 4. The FIND feature will go to default of
> searching by NAME, next to it is FIND BY ID Step 5. Enter the 7 digit number
> as it appears L6V7-36Z Step 6. CLICK FIND Step 7. Encarnacion Tiscareno will
> appear. hover over with your mouse to the name and CLICK Step 8. A new window
> will appear with the person's profile click on the name and your at the
> complete profile and family/resources
>
Thank you for the share the Tree is great. My grandfather Julio dba Julian was child of Encarnacion and he married Natalia Rodriguez child of Ynes Rodriguez and Ma Cleofas Duron. I have located info on the both of them but have not been able to locate a birth certificate for my grandmother Natalia. Thank you again!!!
Rosario,
Im not familiar with the actual people you mentioned but I have several
ancestors with the same last names so your ancestors and my ancestors are
proably connected at some point. I checked to see if your ancestors are on
the Wikitree, but they're not. although I can add them if you want and see
where they connect to mine. i was wondering if you know how to use
familysearch.org to look up your ancestors? cause I checked and your
ancestors are there, I think you shoud be able to go back several
generations. If you look up your great grandparents Encarnacion Tiscareño
and Maria Natividad Tirado on https://familysearch.org/search/ you'll see
that Encarnacion Tiscareno and Maria Natividad Tirado were married on
October 30, 1869.
To find the marriage record may take a little time the firs time you look,
but it gets easier. it probably helps if you can read cursive which I
couldn't at first, but now I can. my mom said they used to teach it in
school but we never really learned it, so it use to take me hours to find
one record but now I can usually find a record in a few minutes.
I have all the locations bookmarked, but if your there for the first time
lookin for the marriage of Encarnacion Tiscareño and Maria Natividad
Tirado, once your on https://familysearch.org/search/ you look under
Research By Location and click on the part of the map where Mexico is. then
click on Aguascalientes. When your there click on Show all 7 Collections
near the bottom. Then click on Mexico, Aguascalientes, Catholic Church
Records, 1620-1962, then towards the bottom click on Browse through 618,532
images, then under City or Town, click on Aguascalientes. Then under
Parish, click on Señor del Encino, although normally, you most likely will
usually click on Asunción de María, that's the more common one. then once
you're on Señor del Encino, you just look in Matrimonios for where your
1869 marriage will be and it most likely will be in Matrimonios 1854-1871,
which it is.
and then here is your record:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6DM7-QM8
It will tell you that Encarnacion Tiscareño is the son of Juan Tiscareño
and Luciana Esparza and Maria Natividad Tirado is the daughter of Marcelino
Tirado and Juana Macias. So now that you know Encarnacions parents are Juan
Tiscareño an Luciana Esparza, you now look for there marriage and its may
13 1846 in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes which is in the other parish of Asunción
de María. then you look for where the 1846 marriage is in the Matrimonios
and it'll be in Matrimonios 1846-1853 and the you just look for your date
and here's the record:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6F69-823
And there youll see that Juan Tiscareño is the son of Pedro Tiscareño and
Gertrudis Maldonado and Luciana Esparza is the daughter of Toribio
Esparza and Feliciana Rangel. And then you look for those records.
if you look up your other great grandparents Ynes Rodriguez and Maria
Cleofas Duron youll see that they were married feb 15 1882. and that record
will show you that Ynes Rodriguez is the son of Maximo Rodriguez and
Basilia Duron and that Maria Cleofas Duron is the daughter of Manuel Duron
and Nicolasa Reyes. and here is the record:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DRZS-KCY
It's pretty easy . you just keep doing that until you run out of records or
ancestors. I don't really read Spanish but im getting better, so if you
need any help I can still proably help you find the record, so let me know
if you need any help.
Danny C. Alonso
This is Sylvia, we were discussing de la Cerda.
Sent from my iPad
Sylvia A. Robles Cell# 951-536-3094
> On Apr 30, 2016, at 6:02 AM, Danny Alonso wrote:
>
> Rosario,
>
> Im not familiar with the actual people you mentioned but I have several
> ancestors with the same last names so your ancestors and my ancestors are
> proably connected at some point. I checked to see if your ancestors are on
> the Wikitree, but they're not. although I can add them if you want and see
> where they connect to mine. i was wondering if you know how to use
> familysearch.org to look up your ancestors? cause I checked and your
> ancestors are there, I think you shoud be able to go back several
> generations. If you look up your great grandparents Encarnacion Tiscareño
> and Maria Natividad Tirado on https://familysearch.org/search/ you'll see
> that Encarnacion Tiscareno and Maria Natividad Tirado were married on
> October 30, 1869.
>
>
> To find the marriage record may take a little time the firs time you look,
> but it gets easier. it probably helps if you can read cursive which I
> couldn't at first, but now I can. my mom said they used to teach it in
> school but we never really learned it, so it use to take me hours to find
> one record but now I can usually find a record in a few minutes.
>
>
> I have all the locations bookmarked, but if your there for the first time
> lookin for the marriage of Encarnacion Tiscareño and Maria Natividad
> Tirado, once your on https://familysearch.org/search/ you look under
> Research By Location and click on the part of the map where Mexico is. then
> click on Aguascalientes. When your there click on Show all 7 Collections
> near the bottom. Then click on Mexico, Aguascalientes, Catholic Church
> Records, 1620-1962, then towards the bottom click on Browse through 618,532
> images, then under City or Town, click on Aguascalientes. Then under
> Parish, click on Señor del Encino, although normally, you most likely will
> usually click on Asunción de María, that's the more common one. then once
> you're on Señor del Encino, you just look in Matrimonios for where your
> 1869 marriage will be and it most likely will be in Matrimonios 1854-1871,
> which it is.
>
>
> and then here is your record:
>
>
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6DM7-QM8
>
>
> It will tell you that Encarnacion Tiscareño is the son of Juan Tiscareño
> and Luciana Esparza and Maria Natividad Tirado is the daughter of Marcelino
> Tirado and Juana Macias. So now that you know Encarnacions parents are Juan
> Tiscareño an Luciana Esparza, you now look for there marriage and its may
> 13 1846 in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes which is in the other parish of Asunción
> de María. then you look for where the 1846 marriage is in the Matrimonios
> and it'll be in Matrimonios 1846-1853 and the you just look for your date
> and here's the record:
>
>
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6F69-823
>
>
> And there youll see that Juan Tiscareño is the son of Pedro Tiscareño and
> Gertrudis Maldonado and Luciana Esparza is the daughter of Toribio
> Esparza and Feliciana Rangel. And then you look for those records.
>
>
> if you look up your other great grandparents Ynes Rodriguez and Maria
> Cleofas Duron youll see that they were married feb 15 1882. and that record
> will show you that Ynes Rodriguez is the son of Maximo Rodriguez and
> Basilia Duron and that Maria Cleofas Duron is the daughter of Manuel Duron
> and Nicolasa Reyes. and here is the record:
>
>
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DRZS-KCY
>
>
> It's pretty easy . you just keep doing that until you run out of records or
> ancestors. I don't really read Spanish but im getting better, so if you
> need any help I can still proably help you find the record, so let me know
> if you need any help.
>
>
> Danny C. Alonso
Danny
Thank you for all the information and yes I have used family search but the way you explained it has helped me understand more on how to use it. I wanted to share with you that my grandfather Julio Tiscareno had another sister named Apolonia Tiscareno and three of his daughters are living, two of my aunts reside in Aguascalientes. I am trying to obtain more information from my aunt and learn the history she knows. I am also researching the Amerindian line that is in the family.
It is fine if you want to add my ancestors to your wiki tree and perhaps we will discover how we are connected. Thank you again for your help.
Rosario
Rosario,
I added your ancestors you mentioned onto the Wikitree. You linked in with
several of my relatives on the Tiscareño side. Here is the link:
http://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Tiscareño-Family-Tree-65
Just click on a name. I didn't get a chance to add all the siblings. The
sources are on the bottom, just click on the image number to see the actual
records.
Danny C. Alonso
What's the advantage of posting tree on Wikitree?
Paul Gomez
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 4, 2016, at 7:19 AM, Danny Alonso wrote:
>
> Rosario,
>
> I added your ancestors you mentioned onto the Wikitree. You linked in with
> several of my relatives on the Tiscareño side. Here is the link:
>
> http://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Tiscareño-Family-Tree-65
>
> Just click on a name. I didn't get a chance to add all the siblings. The
> sources are on the bottom, just click on the image number to see the actual
> records.
>
> Danny C. Alonso
What's the advantage of posting tree on Wikitree?
Paul Gomez
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 4, 2016, at 7:19 AM, Danny Alonso wrote:
>
> Rosario,
>
> I added your ancestors you mentioned onto the Wikitree. You linked in with
> several of my relatives on the Tiscareño side. Here is the link:
>
> http://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Tiscareño-Family-Tree-65
>
> Just click on a name. I didn't get a chance to add all the siblings. The
> sources are on the bottom, just click on the image number to see the actual
> records.
>
> Danny C. Alonso
Paul, there's several advantages to posting on the Wikitree. For me who's in high school, I don't have money for sites like Ancestry, but more important is because it's free anyone can see it without paying, unlike Ancestry and other sites. Plus it's shared by lots of people who contribute. So if your looking you'll see several different people that have added to the tree.
Danny C. Alonso
Geneanet, which has both free and paid modes, has some of the better reporting features of the online genealogy software. You can generate ahnentafel and register reports in a number of formats/styles (the can be saved as PDFs files or copied to a word processor). It can generate simple ancestor tables/lists. It can generate both ancestor and descendant charts. A nice feature is that it will determine relationships between two different people, including when there are multiple relationships. A very nice feature is that it will also draw charts to show these relationships.
I had a free access to the paid (or premium) mode for a trial period and there are some very useful features here as well.
This is worth taking a look at.
George Fulton
Thank you George. And, thank you for your Informationes Matrimonials. They are very helpful to me.
Danny C. Alonso
Geneanet is also free and it is leaner (less clutter) and it doesn't have ads like Wikitree does. Anyway, for your entry on Juan de Tiscareño http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_Tiscare%C3%B1o-1 you can add María Gertrudis de Tiscareño y Chávez as his daughter. She was baptized 31 Aug 1715 and married around 17 Dec 1735 based in the Información Matrimonial indexed by George Fulton. The record is at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11757-68612-51?cc=1502404 It states that there was a dispensa de cuarto grado de consanguinidad. In the book San Gabriel Valley Families of Nueva Galicia by Rosanne Gonzales-Hardy she states that the dispensa was on 9 December 1735 and it mentions Franciso de Tiscareño, the father of Juan de Tiscareño, as the son of Juan Tiscareño and Isabel Romo de Vivar but Francisco is said to be an illegitimate child of Juan Tiscareño by Daniel Mendez at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/17966?page=3 Francisco de Tiscareño married María González de Huerta before 1681 which is when the first recorded baptism of one of their children shows up. Juan, the son of Francisco de Tiscareño and María de Huerta, was baptized 8 Aug 1687. The paternal grandparents of Francisco de Tiscareño were Luis Tiscareño de Molina y Márquez and Lorenza Ruíz de Esparza y Navarro Gabay. They were also the parents of Francisca Navarro de Gabay who married Joseph Delgado, the son of Diego Delgado & Juana Diaz, on 30 Aug 1644, and they had Diego Delgado Tiscareño who married Nicolasa López de Elizalde on 13 April 1678 and they had Felipa Delgado who married Juan de Montoya y Madera on 7 May 1713 and they had Vicente Montoya who married María Gertrudis de Tiscareño y Chávez which cause the dispensa de cuarto grado de consanguinidad. I haven't been able to find that dispensa since it isn't indexed anywhere as far as I can tell. You can add all of that to Wikitree so that Rosario can see the rest of his ancestors on Wikitree.
Armando,
Thank you, this is good information. I wasn't aware of this.
Danny C. Alonso
Paul,
I use Geneanet for my family tree (direct ancestors only). I agree with Armando and George in that it is the best free online genealogy site. I also use Wikitree for its collaboration features. Its through Wikitree that I have met and worked with several fellow Nuestros Ranchos members to connect our family trees and find new ancestors. I've also had the pleasure of working with distant relatives who have roots in colonial California, New Mexico, Texas and other parts of Mexico. The best feature of Wikitree, in my opinion, is its DNA tools which provides users information to help with matching with other users who have added their DNA test types. The benefits of this feature will only get better as more users with ancestry in 'Los Altos' join and add their DNA test types. So if your interested please send me an email and I can get you started. By the way those pesky ads go away once you login.
Austin Perez
http://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/P%C3%A9rez-Family-Tree-224
Danny
I just saw the wikitree and it looks great. My father was Jose Ines Tiscareno DOB 04/20/1929 born in Calvillo Ags, Mx and passed on 01/28/2007 in El Paso Texas. He was married to my mom Josefina de Anda daughter of Leobardo de Anda and Carmen Meza. Who on the tree is your close relative? I have a tree on Ancestry which I started years back but work has not permitted me too much time to do a lot of updates but I still work on it as much I can.
Thank you again
Rosario E Tiscareno
Rosario,
I'll update the Wikitree with the new information that Armando provided and the information you gave me. I just guessed on when I thought your father was born based on the births of the other children.
Danny C. Alonso
Rosario,
I added the people you mentioned yesterday. I didn't know when Josefina de Anda was born so I just guessed she was a little older than her husband based on her parents age, but not sure. about who was the closest relative, we dozens and dozens of the same ancestors, but most of them didn't connect until a few generations back.
Danny C. Alonso
Danny,
My mother Josefina de Anda was born on 03/03/1916 and passed away on 07/23/1984 in El Paso, Texas. I spoke to one of my aunts in Aguascalientes, I asked her some questions, unfortunately she did not have too much information but did share that my grandfather Julio Tiscareno was part of Los Cristeros back in the 1920's. I did some research on it and it is an interesting part of Mexico's history.
I added a profile to wikitree but still have to learn how to use it.
Thank you again for adding my relatives.
Rosario
Rosario,
I only started adding relatives a few months ago. its pretty easy. if you need help, just let me know.
Danny C. Alonso
On the day the treaty was brokered in 1929, Gen. Carlos Bouquet Carranza was killed returning from the peace treaty. His sister married degollado Huizar. If you read about this pair it will tell you one of the outcomes of this terrible war (1926-1929) The Mexican Revolution (1910-1920)
Welcome to the Forum Rosario. I have lots of Tiscareños in my ancestry and some Tirados. How far back have you gone?
Danny C. Alonso
Hello Danny, my paternal line contains the last names Tiscareno Tirado, Rodriguez Duron. So far I am up to my great grand parents Encarnacion Tiscareno who was married to my GGM Maria Natividad Tirado, Ynes Rodriguez married to Ma Cleofas Duron. My grandfather was Julio Tiscareno Tirado who was married to Natalia Rodriguez Duron. My family is from Aguascalientes and I still have two aunts and many cousins that live there. I try to research as much as I can when work allows. Do any of my relatives sound familiar to you? Thank you for the welcome.
Rosario E Tiscareno
Hello - My name is Brian Alejandro Sandoval, and I've always been interested in learning more about my family's history, but only recently got serious after having my DNA analyzed through 23andMe.com
Brian hey this is Hugo Perez I also have family that came from Jalpa and surrounding areas (Teocaltichillo, Chalchisco de abajo,La Leonera acouple more). My surnames are Perez,Duran,Villarreal,Frias,Cocolan these are just some of them.On my dads side I have gone from Jalpa to Aguascalientes,to Jalisco(Teocaltichi). If I can help in anyway. this is my email ghostops98@yahoo.com
Brian,
welcome to the group. As you probably know, there is limited amount of information for Jalpa, but I have found that it is still possible to discover roots that extend well into the 17th century and beyond.
I didn't see an immediate connection between your family tree and my families, but you may find your Sandoval line extending to Tlaltenango as mine did to Gaspar Sandoval Guzman (b~1690) and his grandfather Nicolas Sandoval. You can look at my GEDCOM to see if there any connections.
My focus is the families that first settled La Villita. In addition to what you'll find online thru FamilySearch.com, there is a 1820 Census (I've put the link to the 20 or so pages in another posting), the work that Claudia Casillas and others have put in to transcribe the marriage dispensations that pre-date 1864 in Jalpa, the Tierras y Aguas films of land grants (often listing family information), and other archives (like "Archivo de la Real Audiencia" http://www.bpej.udg.mx/ra_busc1 and El Portal de Archivos Españoles http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=0).
I'd also be interested in seeing the results from your DNA test. I recently submitted my own DNA sample to Geno 2.0 to see if I could get more detailed genetic tests that I currently have about my paternal (I-P37.2 and possibly L160+/I2a1b) and maternal (Haplogroup - B4'5) lines.
Good luck!
Arturo
Thanks for the welcome Arturo!
I've started hitting a dead end with the Sandoval line because they seemed to have stayed in the Jalpa area for a while, so I haven't been able to trace them back through indices, like I have been able to with some of their spouses or other family lines.
Thanks for the additional sources - I'm sure they'll keep me busy.
I'm still amazed at the vast amount of information I have been able to put together based on the FamilySearch data.
It really is too bad that the 1930 Jalpa census is missing; it would be so useful.
My DNA shows shows Paternal haplogroup: R1b1b2a1a2f* (a subgroup of R1b1b2); 23andMe classifies this group as mostly western european
Maternal haplogroup: A2 (a subgroup of A), 23andMe classifies this as mostly the Americas/East Asia
I wanted to be sure to include the link to my folder:
Can someone tell me the last name of the mother of Da Benigna Macias
Valadez who married Eusebio de Esparza
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-691S-G16
Danny C. Alonso
Maria Salome Santos (KC4J-ZPB on Familysearch.org) is her name. Question, do you have the parents of Juana Losano Yslas married to Pedro Ruis who is father to Juan Esparsa and juan father to Nicolas Ylario father to Julian Joseph and he father to Joseph Eusebio married to Macias Valadez?
Sarod, thank you. I'm not sure about Juana Lozano's parents for sure but
probly Cristobal Martinez Lozano and Maria de Islas, but again not for sure.
Danny C. Alonso
On Wednesday, May 4, 2016, wrote:
> Maria Salome Santos (KC4J-ZPB on Familysearch.org) is her name. Question,
> do
> you have the parents of Juana Losano Yslas married to Pedro Ruis who is
> father to Juan Esparsa and juan father to Nicolas Ylario father to Julian
> Joseph and he father to Joseph Eusebio married to Macias Valadez?
>
Can someone tell me if the parents are named on this information matrimonial for Phelipe Martines and Francisca Xaviera Duron. I cant read the IMs very well
The record is for Felipe Martinez and Francisca Javiera Solana daughter of Francisco Duron and Beatriz de la Vega. Grooms parents dont appear to be named
Thank you Sarod and Luigi.
Danny C. Alonso
M3CF-N9B record ID in Familysearch.org In the record it first introduces her as the above name and later gives duron. her parents are Francisco Duron and Beatris de la Vega (vera)
there is another record ID that might be them as well with either more complete names or it is a different couple I found a year ago Francisco Gutierrez Duron and Beatris Rodriguez de la Vega I can't remember why I was looking but maybe you know more about this family and can sum it up. I didn't look for Martin parents do you who they are?
Does anyone know any iformation about the Francisco Prieto Gallardo that was married to Juana Ruiz de Esparza. he would probly be born about 1655 in Aguascalientes.
I am trying to publish a video with resources for Family History for all Spanish Surnames.
I Hope all of you are doing well. I need members assistance with my MEDINA line.
There aren't very many records to review for Juchipila which seemed disheartening at first. But, if Ysidra and Juan Jose M were born around 1800, and they lived into their 50's or even into their 70's --well , you have death records. And there is a death record for Ysidra Luna: parents named, place of origin named, left Juan Medina a widower, 2nd marriage. Juan Medina is still living so look for his record in the Catholic Church register and in the Civil Registration records.
Good Luck on your search, Gloria
Citation
"México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15233-20295-40?cc=1804458 : accessed 1 May 2016), Juchipila > San Francisco > Defunciones 1853-1855, 1870-1942 > image 14 of 463; paróquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic Church parishes, Zacatecas).
thank you so much. Where did you find that info? I really need a lead. It is deeply appreicated
What names were used? I have checked FamilySearch.org often, and not found them
Y Medina
Could you possibly cut/paste the info that you found about YSIDRA LUNA? I would really appreciate it and any other record that you found about Juan Medina.
Again I am very thankful. Its been a long search with lots of us trying to find those two.
Take care
Y Medina
Yolanda, not all records are indexed. You have to go to rolls and sometimes go page by page. I did send you the link in the first message. You should be able to click on it and it will take you to the page. If you can't use the link then go to familysearch Mexico, Zacatecas Church records/find Juchipilas/and go to Defunciones. The digital image # is on my first post. You'll need to search page by page for Juan Medina. I searched once and didn't find him but I may have missed him. Also, I'm sorry to say there are some years missing.
Gloria
Lately I have had a lot of luck with Juchipila's pre 1800 records by
viewing all death records post 1800 for Juchipila, Apozol and Moyahua, as
well as looking through the dispensas for weddings through the Sagrada
Mitra for Amoxochitl, Juchipila, Moyahua and Apozol pre and post 1800!
On Apr 30, 2016 8:25 PM, wrote:
There aren't very many records to review for Juchipila which seemed
disheartening at first. But, if Ysidra and Juan Jose M were born around
1800,
and they lived into their 50's or even into their 70's --well , you have
death records. And there is a death record for Ysidra Luna: parents named,
place of origin named, left Juan Medina a widower, 2nd marriage. Juan Medina
is still living so look for his record in the Catholic Church register and
in
the Civil Registration records. Good Luck on your search, Gloria Citation
"México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with
images, FamilySearch
(https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15233-20295-40?cc=1804458 :
accessed 1 May 2016), Juchipila > San Francisco > Defunciones 1853-1855,
1870-1942 > image 14 of 463; paróquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic
Church parishes, Zacatecas).
Lately I have had a lot of luck with Juchipila's pre 1800 records by
viewing all death records post 1800 for Juchipila, Apozol and Moyahua, as
well as looking through the dispensas for weddings through the Sagrada
Mitra for Amoxochitl, Juchipila, Moyahua and Apozol pre and post 1800!
On Apr 30, 2016 8:25 PM, wrote:
There aren't very many records to review for Juchipila which seemed
disheartening at first. But, if Ysidra and Juan Jose M were born around
1800,
and they lived into their 50's or even into their 70's --well , you have
death records. And there is a death record for Ysidra Luna: parents named,
place of origin named, left Juan Medina a widower, 2nd marriage. Juan Medina
is still living so look for his record in the Catholic Church register and
in
the Civil Registration records. Good Luck on your search, Gloria Citation
"México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with
images, FamilySearch
(https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15233-20295-40?cc=1804458 :
accessed 1 May 2016), Juchipila > San Francisco > Defunciones 1853-1855,
1870-1942 > image 14 of 463; paróquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic
Church parishes, Zacatecas).
Yvonne,
the link Gloria gave you is definetly your Ysidra Luna and Juan Jose
Medina. it looks like its says that Ysidra Luna's parents are Manuel de
Luna and Ana Maria Rovalcaba. and it says that Ysidra Luna's second husband
is Juan Jose Medina.
here is a different link to the same record
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-YPGN-F
Danny C. Alonso
On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 9:05 PM, wrote:
> Could you possibly cut/paste the info that you found about YSIDRA LUNA? I
> would really appreciate it and any other record that you found about Juan
> Medina. Again I am very thankful. Its been a long search with lots of us
> trying to find those two. Take care Y Medina
>
I have Medina family in colotlan jalisco very closeto zavatecas do you have
a conection to my family
Jose Luis Zambrano De Santiago "El Euforia".
On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 9:05 PM, wrote:
> Could you possibly cut/paste the info that you found about YSIDRA LUNA? I
> would really appreciate it and any other record that you found about Juan
> Medina. Again I am very thankful. Its been a long search with lots of us
> trying to find those two. Take care Y Medina
>
I know that is close to Juchipila but i dont there is a connection, but i will definitely keep my eyes open.
thank you
Y Medina
I posted my family tree in nuestros ranchos i sent you a file but it did
not load in nuestrs ranchos
Jose Luis Zambrano De Santiago "El Euforia".
On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 10:16 PM, wrote:
> I know that is close to Juchipila but i dont there is a connection, but i
> will definitely keep my eyes open. thank you Y Medina
>
This is difficult for me to read, especially the names. Can anyone help me? Thank you.
Names--
Groom: Juan Miguel de Luna y Lopez
his parents: Callettano Lopez & Ana Rosalia
Bride: Ana Luis Dias
her parents: Nicolas & Ana Bernarda Aleman
Padrinos: Jose Manuel & Maria Bictoriana
Testigos: Miguel de Herrera & Callettano Juan
I hope this helps.
Rosalinda
Yes thank you! This does help me. I do have some follow-up questions now.
I had not been able to read "Rosalia". Since the grooms name is Juan Miguel de Luna y Lopez, does that mean that his mother's last name is Luna?
Also, is the bride's father's last name Dias?
Again, Rosalinda, thank you so much for your help.
I don't know if I can answer with any certainty. Juan Miguel's last name could be one whole last name, or his mother's last name could be Luna. It would take additional records to confirm this. I think it is implied that the bride's father's last name is Dias.
Good luck!
Thank you so much for your help!
Bernarda Aleman I found a couple of weeks ago I've been trying to find spouses for 3 of my Alemans in the late 1600. Aleman is really Sifuentes de Aleman so sometimes the name Sifuentes will appear on one of the children. They are from San Luis Potosi. record ID above in subject line for ana luisa dias and juan miguel de luna y lopez. I have Luna in the 1600 but have not found another in my line yet. Good luck
sarod77, I'm not familiar with how to search by record ID. As a matter of fact, I don't even see a record ID on the records I'm looking at. Thanks for your help!
Ana Luisa Dias L2T7-NH8 record ID for www.Familysearch.org
when you are signed in and you choose Find from the ribbon right under the Familysearch.logo. It will go to default of searching for name but to the side of it is search by ID. Click on that and put in the above number.
Thank you sarod77! It took me a minute to find the right "Find", but finally succeeded. You've taught me something new. I didn't know there was a record with a record ID. Thank you.
1) Create an account on https://familysearch.org/
2) Log in
3) Hover over Family Tree at the top left
4) go down to Person and select
5) click on the Down Arrow next to "person" and an ID box will be available for you to input the record ID
6) Click on the arrow
Joseph
=========================
Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Research [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On
> Behalf Of raynababette@cox.net
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 4:02 PM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need help reading this 1792 marriage record
>
> sarod77, I'm not familiar with how to search by record ID. As a matter
> of fact, I don't even see a record ID on the records I'm looking at.
> Thanks for your help!
>
Where do I get a record ID? Where does it appear?
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> From: makas@nc.rr.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:25:48 -0400
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] How To Search By Record ID
>
> 1) Create an account on https://familysearch.org/
>
> 2) Log in
>
> 3) Hover over Family Tree at the top left
>
> 4) go down to Person and select
>
> 5) click on the Down Arrow next to "person" and an ID box will be available for you to input the record ID
>
> 6) Click on the arrow
>
> Joseph
>
> =========================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> Clean@h2opodcast.com
> http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Research [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On
> > Behalf Of raynababette@cox.net
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 4:02 PM
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need help reading this 1792 marriage record
> >
> > sarod77, I'm not familiar with how to search by record ID. As a matter
> > of fact, I don't even see a record ID on the records I'm looking at.
> > Thanks for your help!
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
Go to FamilySearch.org, log in, Go to Family tree, do a search for anyone. If you get some results then their ID should be right under their name for example:
Go to https://familysearch.org/
Then click on Family Tree
Then click on find
Then put in say, Antonio Gonzalez the result I got was:
Antonio Gonzalez
LD25-S6J <---- this is the Record ID
NOTE: I'm not exactly sure but the Record ID's seem to be directly related to individuals that are connected to Family Tree. So say for example you do a general search outside of family tree then it is very possible that NO Record ID will appear.
Joseph
=========================
Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Research [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On
> Behalf Of Emilie Garcia
> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 7:47 PM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] How To Search By Record ID
>
> Where do I get a record ID? Where does it appear?
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> > From: makas@nc.rr.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:25:48 -0400
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] How To Search By Record ID
> >
> > 1) Create an account on https://familysearch.org/
> >
> > 2) Log in
> >
> > 3) Hover over Family Tree at the top left
> >
> > 4) go down to Person and select
> >
> > 5) click on the Down Arrow next to "person" and an ID box will be
> > available for you to input the record ID
> >
> > 6) Click on the arrow
> >
> > Joseph
> >
> > =========================
> >
> > Joseph Puentes
> > Clean@h2opodcast.com
> > http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Research [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org]
> > > On Behalf Of raynababette@cox.net
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 4:02 PM
> > > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need help reading this 1792 marriage
> > > record
> > >
> > > sarod77, I'm not familiar with how to search by record ID. As a
> > > matter of fact, I don't even see a record ID on the records I'm
> looking at.
> > > Thanks for your help!
> > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Nuestros Ranchos Research
> > > Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Nuestros Ranchos Research
> > Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
Where do I get a record ID? Where does it appear?
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> From: makas@nc.rr.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:25:48 -0400
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] How To Search By Record ID
>
> 1) Create an account on https://familysearch.org/
>
> 2) Log in
>
> 3) Hover over Family Tree at the top left
>
> 4) go down to Person and select
>
> 5) click on the Down Arrow next to "person" and an ID box will be available for you to input the record ID
>
> 6) Click on the arrow
>
> Joseph
>
> =========================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> Clean@h2opodcast.com
> http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Research [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On
> > Behalf Of raynababette@cox.net
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 4:02 PM
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need help reading this 1792 marriage record
> >
> > sarod77, I'm not familiar with how to search by record ID. As a matter
> > of fact, I don't even see a record ID on the records I'm looking at.
> > Thanks for your help!
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
-----Original Message-----
From: mimilozano@somosprimos.com [mailto:mimilozano@somosprimos.com]
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 3:33 PM
To: mimilozano@aol.com
Subject: Somos Primos May 2016
Hola a todos:
Saludos pariente, Yo también tengo como ancestros directos a los señalados en el tema. Desgraciadamente no te puedo ayudar con eso porque apenas si los descubrí en estos últimos días.
El motivo de ponerme en contacto contigo más bien es para saber si tienes el acta de matrimonio de Jacinto y de Gertrudis, también en otro post que subiste mencionaste que el era de Tuxcacuesco, cómo sabes que es la misma persona y que sus padres son Angela Sánchez y Diego de Villalbazo? Ojalá me puedas echar la mano
Hasta pronto
Dear Emilie,
A while back you wrote:
"Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish evidence in Los Altos
Dear Emilie,
It was supposed to be Emilie's Cervantes ancestry and its Ha Levi link, not Emilio's.
The email I received from Nuestros Ranchos looks like the below.
How do I change this difficult to read format?
Thanks,
Ken Alva
Send Research mailing list submissions to research@lists.nuestrosra
I'm having the same problem. It's very difficult to read this new format.
That's the digest email. You can change that but then you'll receive each individual email. If that's ok, just under your user name click on my account. Then under your user name on the left, click on mail list subscriptions, then change your mailing list subscription to Subscribe for all mail (normal delivery). Now you'll receive all the mail as it comes in from each person. But, you won't see things that aren't emailed, like the stuff posted directly to the site, like this post here which I just did by clicking add new comment.
Danny C. Alonso
On the marriage certificate for Nicolas de Robclaba y Juana Ruis de Luna, I can read all the information except the name of Juana's mother. It looks like Ma - but then I can't make out the next word.
I won't say I'm correct, but looking at the shape of the surrounding letters, it looks like Freide to me, but I've never seen this name before.
That's my guess, anyway. I hope this helps!
Rosalinda
Thanks, Rosalinda. I see the first letter as an F also. I actually see it pretty much as you do, but it doesn't make any sense. I try to make it Francisca or some other name that starts with F....
I looked at FamilySearch, and Freide is a legitimate last name.
R
How strange. It really sounds more German. But I see it also.
Does anyone nave information on this Hacienda or know of any books on subject?
Looking for information on Cubillos, De LA O, Mares, Briones surnames.
Hello everyone. My name is Xochitl Cruz Gomez. My fathers family (Cruz) comes from Teocaltiche Jalisco and my mothers family (Gomez) is from Nochistlan, Zacatecas.
First, Welcome!
I did find and merge records for Narcisco Arellano married to Juliana Villarreal. They do have a son named Refugio. Narcisco's father Rosalio Arrellano may be the same rosalio married to Maria Ambrosia Contreras. I have not reviewed those records as it seems rosalio was either married twice or two separate individuals. On the Villarreal I merged records to 1785 about. If I find that rosalio is married to contreras you can find out by selecting the Star marked WATCH. I have many contreras in my family so she might be family.
Sorry, new to this site (first day) and I'm still navigating it. Where do I find the merge records you are referring to.
I did find through Ancestry a Narciso Arellano married to Juliana Villareal My Narciso (abt 1826) is married to JUANA Villareal. It could be that they are the same person. I would like to view what you merged. How do I do that. Thanks so much.
you can find it in www.familysearch.org.
I'm having a hard time confirming that Juana is Juliana. Both are married to Narciso. . I understand that women had two or even three names but I can't find proof that Juana is Juliana. Refugio's marriage certificate indicates Juana as his mother. All the other children's documentation is the baptismal certificate that indicates Juliana is the mother, however, Refugio does not have a baptismal certificate to indicate that Juliana is his mother. Refugio is my direct descendant and so I need more proof that Juana is Juliana on a record related to Refugio.
Did you find Refugio's baptism certificate? That would be solid proof.
I went back to look at the record but the name of Juliana was removed. Juliana is the person for this record as she is mentioned on several of the children's records. If you have a blank, the computer cannot check for other records that might reveal more information. You can always put Juana as an AKA.
Check out this link which is a marriage doc of Refugio Arellano and Magdalena Garcia. The doc says Refugio is 26 years old in 1877 which would make his birth year around 1851. It also says he's an hijo natural, so his parents were not married when he was born. I'm not sure if this is the Refugio you are looking for, but it lists his parents as Narciso Arrelano and Juana Villareal.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BY9L-R4?mode=g&i=49&wc=3PS…
This may be his brother:
Jose Agustin Arellano Villarreal
Mexico Baptisms
Name Jose Agustin Arellano Villarreal
Gender Male
Christening Date 08 Apr 1852
Christening Place El Teul, Teul de González Ortega, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name Narciso Arellano
Mother's Name Juliana Villarreal
Paternal Grandfather's Name Rosalio Arellano
Paternal Grandmother's Name Norberta Flores
Maternal Grandfather's Name Jose Maria Villarreal
Maternal Grandmother's Name Ygnosencia Lara
Good luck,
Juan Aguayo
Thanks for the links. I see where it state "hijo natural". Very interesting because I do have an image through ancestry.com ("Refugio Arellano and Magdalena Garcia in the Zacatecas, Mexico, Civil Registration Marriages, 1861-1952") of their marriage certificate which state "hijo legitimo de Narciso Arellano and Juana Villarreal" So I'm a little confused. I think I'm just overthinking this. Thanks for the help. Sometimes I just need a second opinion, actually you are the third.
I'm going to go with the "AKA Juana" and add Juliana to my tree as Refugio's wife which will populate the rest of the tree.
Muchas Gracia Juan.
(BTW, I do have Aguayo in my family. Feliciana Aguayo who married Longino Gomez in Nochistlan in 1859)
Xochitl
Xochitl,
We do have common ancestors. My paternal and maternal lines are from Nochistlan. In looking at your files, our common ancestors are Antonio Corona and Maria Dolores Ximenez. I'm sure we have other common ancestors via the Gomez, Aguayo, Duran, Munoz, Alvarez, Macias, Ruiz, Marin, Acosta, Martinez, Ulloa, Jauregui, Martinez, Cervantes, etc.
If you run into roadblocks with your Macias line from Nochistlan, that last name was interchangeable with Alvarez. This was a roadblock of mine for a few years until I realized that some siblings were listed as Macias and others as Alvarez.
Saludos prima,
Juan Aguayo
wow! That's pretty cool. I was hoping I would find a common relative. Glad to know you, if only via this website. Antonio Corona and Maria Dolores Ximenez are my 5th Great Grandparents on my Grandfather Florentino Gomez' side. What is your relation to them? I read up on relations and how the cousin line works, 5th cousin twice removed and so on. I'd be interested.
Thanks for the hint on the Macias line. I'll look into that.
Gracias Primo
Xochitl
Xochitl,
The relation to my 6th great grandparents Antonio Corona and Maria de los Dolores Ximenes is through my paternal great-grandmother Maria Candelaria Aguirre Rodriguez who was baptized Feb. 02, 1901 in Nochistlan. The connection goes like this:
Maria Candelaria Aguirre Rodriguez-> Jose Felipe Aguirre Cervantes(b.02May1858)->Maria Refugia de Jesus Cervantes Aguayo (b. 06Jul1823) -> Jose Maria del Rosario Cervantes Corona (b. 03Oct1796) -> Maria Agapita Corona Ximenez (b.07Jun1767)-> whose parents are Antonio Corona and Maria de Los Dolores Ximenes!
I'm sure I'll find other mutual ancestors via the Duran and Munoz. The first documented Duran in Nochistlan is Juan Ximon Duran Duque to whom I have a paper trail through various lines. Jose Luis Vazquez y Rodriguez de Frias' book Genealogia de Nochistlan Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia suggests Juan Ximon married Regina de Aguayo in approximately 1625, as their first child, Juan Duran el mozo, was born in 1626.
Saludos,
Juan Aguayo
It seems we have an even closer relation by one generation. Maria Agapita Corona and Jose Maria del Rosario Cervantes (who I believe would be your 5th Great grandparents, my fourth great grandparents) who are the parents of Jose Maria de Rosario Servantes (your direct ancestor) and Rafael Cervantes (my ancestor) That is where the split happens.
My line is my grandfather Florentino Gomez (b1900) -> great grandmother Catalina Cervantes (b1867)-> 2x great grandfather Evaristo Cervantes (b 1844) -> 3x great grandfather Rafael Cervantes (b. 1795) -> 4x great grandparents: Jose Maria Cervantes** (b abt 1765?) and Maria Agapita Corona Ximenez (b.07Jun1767)
**One thing: Did you find anything on Jose Maria Cervantes? I have not been able to find much. Any help would be appreciated.
Pretty cool.
Saludos,
Xochitl.
Primo,
I was able to find my information on Jose Maria Cervantes b. 4/6/1795 in Nochistlan. Thanks mucho.
Xochitl
Hello Xochitl
My name is Saul Navarro and most of my research is centered in Nochistlan Zacatecas. While I don't have a GEDCOM posted in this website, I do have lots of information to share. I have been doing a little research for a new prima to help her along in her search. She is related to a Rafael Cervantes that married to Maria Dominga Rodriguez. This is Rafael's second marriage dated 19th July 1802 in Nochistlan. The image number is 392 and here is the link'
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T7HN?i=391&wc=3P9F-2NG%3A1…
The doc stated that he is a viudo of Maria Ygnacia Tolentino and she passed away 3 years ago. His parents were Jose Leocadio Servantes married to Ana Maria Rodriguez. The brides parents were Jose Ramon Rodriguez married to Maria Francisca Gomez. The padrinos were Faustino de Salazar and Maria Casilda. Is this the Rafael that is related to you? If I can be of some assistance here is my Email address hartparkangler@yahoo.com
Saludos Saul
Hola Saul,
I did read the link and I don't think it's the same person. My Rafael Cervantes (b 1795) married Maria de los Santos Franco in 1816. His parents are Jose Maria Cervantes (b 1765) and Maria Agapita Corona (b 1767). In 1802 he would be about 7 or 8 years old.
Thank you for your assistance, if i do get into a bind, i will definitely reach out to you.
Saludos,
Xochitl.
Xochitl,
I think sometimes the baptisms will say a child is an hijo natural if the
parents are not married in the church. Or they could've gotten married
after the baptism but before they recorded the birth.
Danny C. Alonso
Buscando una dispensa de uno de mis antepasados me topé con esto.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18686-69135-84?cc=1874591&wc…
Les comparto este enlace de testimonios de franceses sobre México en la segunda intervención francesa
http://books.openedition.org/cemca/833?lang=es
México en un espejo: testimonio de los franceses de la intervención (1862-1867)
Hola Primos,
Yo también e escuchado ese mito de el origen Francés en la región de donde mis padres son en Calvillo, Aguascalientes y Huanusco Zacatecas. Osea que este mito también existe en Calvillo donde la mayoría de la gente tienen ojos azules, rubios y pecosos. Este es el caso de mi familia. Familiares paternos y maternos tienen estos rasgos. Mi abuelo materno tiene ojos azules igual que sus hermanos y madre. La abuela paterna de mi abuelo materno, según mi bis-abuela, tenia el cabello rubio y los ojos color cielo. Los hermanos de mi mama tienen ojos azules, y ella verdes. No nadamas eso pero son rubio y pecosos también, por eso muchos de mis hermanos son rubios y pecosos. También se ven estas características en mi lado paterno, pero mucho mas en mi lado materno. Cuando un primo o un hermano mio nace y sale rubio, ojos azules y pecoso se dice que salio Villalpando porque ese es el apellido de mi madre. Pero estos rasgos son muy común en la región, supongo porque muchos de nuestros ancestros los compartimos con la gente alteña. Pero igual después de hacer mi genealogía no e encontrado ascendencia Francésa, nada mas Española. Pero la gente, usualmente la gente mayor, sigue aclamando ese origen Francés.
Saludos
Roberto Rosales Villalpando Jr.
Alfonso Reynoso Rábago
Durante largo tiempo he estado investigando el origen racial de los Alteños. Hay muchos mitos sobre ello. Se dice que son blancos, rubios, de ojos claros porque los soldados franceses de la Segunda Intervención dejaron su descendencia en Los Altos. En realidad después de muchas búsquedas sólo habíamos encontrado la descendencia de un soldado del ejército francés de origen africano, de raza negra, en Los Altos. Este descubrimiento reportado aquí es extraordinariamente interesante porque fundamente el matrimonio de un soldado francés con una mujer mexicana (tal vez alteña). ¡Felicitaciones a su descubridor!
En realidad algunos de los alteños (no tanto como se dice) son blancos, rubios y de ojos claros no por la Segunda Intervención Francesa sino porque desde muy antiguo algunos de los primeros labradores españoles presentaban esas características. Hay un obispo que habla en su visita pastoral allá a principios del siglo XVII de esas características de los antepasados de los que ahora nos llamamos alteños. (He perdido la cita, si alguien la sabe, le agradecería si me la da a conocer).
Además, si vinieron soldados franceses con ojos azules, esa característica no la podían heredar a sus descendientes si la madre no tenía ella o alguno de sus antepasados esa característica. Eso nos lo dice la biología. Es decir que para tener ojos azules se necesita que tanto el padre como la madre aporten información genética de ojos azules.
Mil gracias por el aporte documental que es de primera.
Un saludo cordial.
Alfonso Reynoso Rábago
Estoy totalmente de acuerdo contigo Alfonso. Los alteños, y otra gente de
México, tenia ojos azules desde antes de la Segunda Intervención Francesa.
Mis tíos abuelos, de Lagos de Moreno, no hubieran podido haber tenido ojos
azules solo por medio de mi bisabuelo que era un vasco español con ojos
azules y sin sangre francesa comprobado por sus documentos que tengo hasta
el siglo XVI. Su matrimonio con una alteña de Lagos de Moreno, de
ascendencia española y mestiza sin sangre francesa, fue la razón que dos de
sus hijos tuvieron ojos azules como otros alteños sin ascendencia francesa.
Varios parientes lejanos de mi bisabuela tienen ojos azules y no tienen
ascendencia francesa en sus árboles genealógicos.
Hace falta que mas personas que tienen parientes o ancestros con ojos
claros platique de su gente y de sus árboles y que escriben libros. Todavía
hay gente en Los Altos que creen que son güeros con ojos claros por tener
sangre francesa sin tener documentación que lo comprueba y eso aunque saben
sobre el contenido de los tomos de Retoños de La Nueva España y de los
muchos árboles de la gente de la región. Ponen mas fe en un libro con
mentiras porque les dice lo que quieren creer y optan por ignorar Retoños
de La Nueva España y demás documentación que existe.
De este matrimonio de Mateo Norinat o Naudinat y Leonarda Olivares no he
encontrado descendencia en Lagos de Moreno ni en el resto de Jalisco y
jamás he escuchado mencionar ese apellido ni uno parecido. Han de haber ido
a vivir a otra parte de México o afuera de México. Así que los documentos
de ese matrimonio comprueban que si hubo algunos franceses en Los Altos de
Jalisco pero todavía no hay comprobantes que hayan dejado descendencia en
Jalisco aparte del caso tuyo que mencionaste. Sigue siendo mito y no
historia verídica que los soldados franceses hayan sido causa de la piel
blanca, los ojos claros, y el pelo güero en Los Altos de Jalisco.
Saludos,
Armando
2014-12-01 12:31 GMT-06:00 :
> Alfonso Reynoso Rábago
>
> Durante largo tiempo he estado investigando el origen racial de los
> Alteños. Hay muchos mitos sobre ello. Se dice que son blancos, rubios, de
> ojos claros porque los soldados franceses de la Segunda Intervención
> dejaron su descendencia en Los Altos. En realidad después de muchas
> búsquedas sólo habíamos encontrado la descendencia de un soldado del
> ejército francés de origen africano, de raza negra, en Los Altos. Este
> descubrimiento reportado aquí es extraordinariamente interesante porque
> fundamente el matrimonio de un soldado francés con una mujer mexicana (tal
> vez alteña). ¡Felicitaciones a su descubridor!
>
> En realidad algunos de los alteños (no tanto como se dice) son blancos,
> rubios y de ojos claros no por la Segunda Intervención Francesa sino porque
> desde muy antiguo algunos de los primeros labradores españoles presentaban
> esas características. Hay un obispo que habla en su visita pastoral allá a
> principios del siglo XVII de esas características de los antepasados de los
> que ahora nos llamamos alteños. (He perdido la cita, si alguien la sabe, le
> agradecería si me la da a conocer).
>
> Además, si vinieron soldados franceses con ojos azules, esa característica
> no la podían heredar a sus descendientes si la madre no tenía ella o alguno
> de sus antepasados esa característica. Eso nos lo dice la biología. Es
> decir que para tener ojos azules se necesita que tanto el padre como la
> madre aporten información genética de ojos azules.
> Mil gracias por el aporte documental que es de primera.
>
> Un saludo cordial.
> Alfonso Reynoso Rábago -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
>
> To post, send email to:
> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>
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> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
I don't think it was just Altenos who looked "French". My father was from Jerez, Zacatecas, and people with his surname Olague (a Basque name) first settled in Pinos, Zacatecas in the 1500s. My father said that his grandfather was called "el Frances" because he had blue eyes. When I did my research on the Olagues in Zacatecas, there were no French at all, only "espanol" going back to the 1600s in Zacatecas. When I went with my father to Zacatecas in the 1960s, we passed through some villages where the people were morenos with blue eyes. I asked why they had blue eyes (must to the consternation of my father), and they said that the French had been there. "Los Franceses estubieron agqui" they said, and they smiled.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 11:49:05 -0600
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Origen francés de los alteños
>
> Estoy totalmente de acuerdo contigo Alfonso. Los alteños, y otra gente de
> México, tenia ojos azules desde antes de la Segunda Intervención Francesa.
> Mis tíos abuelos, de Lagos de Moreno, no hubieran podido haber tenido ojos
> azules solo por medio de mi bisabuelo que era un vasco español con ojos
> azules y sin sangre francesa comprobado por sus documentos que tengo hasta
> el siglo XVI. Su matrimonio con una alteña de Lagos de Moreno, de
> ascendencia española y mestiza sin sangre francesa, fue la razón que dos de
> sus hijos tuvieron ojos azules como otros alteños sin ascendencia francesa.
> Varios parientes lejanos de mi bisabuela tienen ojos azules y no tienen
> ascendencia francesa en sus árboles genealógicos.
>
> Hace falta que mas personas que tienen parientes o ancestros con ojos
> claros platique de su gente y de sus árboles y que escriben libros. Todavía
> hay gente en Los Altos que creen que son güeros con ojos claros por tener
> sangre francesa sin tener documentación que lo comprueba y eso aunque saben
> sobre el contenido de los tomos de Retoños de La Nueva España y de los
> muchos árboles de la gente de la región. Ponen mas fe en un libro con
> mentiras porque les dice lo que quieren creer y optan por ignorar Retoños
> de La Nueva España y demás documentación que existe.
>
> De este matrimonio de Mateo Norinat o Naudinat y Leonarda Olivares no he
> encontrado descendencia en Lagos de Moreno ni en el resto de Jalisco y
> jamás he escuchado mencionar ese apellido ni uno parecido. Han de haber ido
> a vivir a otra parte de México o afuera de México. Así que los documentos
> de ese matrimonio comprueban que si hubo algunos franceses en Los Altos de
> Jalisco pero todavía no hay comprobantes que hayan dejado descendencia en
> Jalisco aparte del caso tuyo que mencionaste. Sigue siendo mito y no
> historia verídica que los soldados franceses hayan sido causa de la piel
> blanca, los ojos claros, y el pelo güero en Los Altos de Jalisco.
>
> Saludos,
> Armando
>
>
> 2014-12-01 12:31 GMT-06:00 :
>
> > Alfonso Reynoso Rábago
> >
> > Durante largo tiempo he estado investigando el origen racial de los
> > Alteños. Hay muchos mitos sobre ello. Se dice que son blancos, rubios, de
> > ojos claros porque los soldados franceses de la Segunda Intervención
> > dejaron su descendencia en Los Altos. En realidad después de muchas
> > búsquedas sólo habíamos encontrado la descendencia de un soldado del
> > ejército francés de origen africano, de raza negra, en Los Altos. Este
> > descubrimiento reportado aquí es extraordinariamente interesante porque
> > fundamente el matrimonio de un soldado francés con una mujer mexicana (tal
> > vez alteña). ¡Felicitaciones a su descubridor!
> >
> > En realidad algunos de los alteños (no tanto como se dice) son blancos,
> > rubios y de ojos claros no por la Segunda Intervención Francesa sino porque
> > desde muy antiguo algunos de los primeros labradores españoles presentaban
> > esas características. Hay un obispo que habla en su visita pastoral allá a
> > principios del siglo XVII de esas características de los antepasados de los
> > que ahora nos llamamos alteños. (He perdido la cita, si alguien la sabe, le
> > agradecería si me la da a conocer).
> >
> > Además, si vinieron soldados franceses con ojos azules, esa característica
> > no la podían heredar a sus descendientes si la madre no tenía ella o alguno
> > de sus antepasados esa característica. Eso nos lo dice la biología. Es
> > decir que para tener ojos azules se necesita que tanto el padre como la
> > madre aporten información genética de ojos azules.
> > Mil gracias por el aporte documental que es de primera.
> >
> > Un saludo cordial.
> > Alfonso Reynoso Rábago -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
Hola Alfonso,
Ciertamente parece ser un mito. Por lo menos no fue tan comun como pensábamos.
Te platico que cuando era pequeña, mis tios platicaban que mi tatarabuelo era frances y que cuando fue la revolución francesa se quedó aquí. me decían que su hijo tenía ojos verdes muy claros y yo tengo sus ojos.
Así quedó la historia y resulta que hace un par de años que entré en la investigación genealógica me di cuenta ¡que era falso!
Mis antepasados vienes por un lado,los RODRIGUEZ de Zacatecas entre 1730 y 1750, eran los rancheros que hablaba Francois Chevalier, cuando hablaba de los españoles rancheros, luego estaban los ESTEVES en Cuquio, tambien españoles.
Siguen por parte de mi mama los ARIAS MALDONADO y los BARAJAS, otros españoles que habitaron Ayo el chico y Tepatitlan.
De franceses ¡Nada! jejeje
Saludos y todo lo mejor,
Veronica Rodriguez
I too often heard the myths about the French ancestors of Los altos de Jalisco when I was a child. And yes I did learn through decades of research that the French myth as it was told to us was false. Even though I have not found ancestry through French people immigrating to los altos de Jalisco, I was surprised to find that many of the original families that settled in Los altos de Jalisco were from northern Spain, many of them basques, and that many of them had French and English ancestors. More French than English . Even a few German, Italian and Middle East ancestors.Yes, most of our ancestors are from the Iberian peninsula, but most just means over fifty percent. Another thing to remember is that the Iberian peninsula was the original melting pot. An example of one of my ancestors that has a French and English ancestry, along with Spanish ancestry, is my Rodriguez de Hijar/ Fernandez de Hijar line.
R.A.Ricci
Ricci,
Thank you for sharing the fact that you have also found the myth to be false through your research.
The rest was really off topic from the original posts but since you added it in I will respond. I doubt your French and English ancestors amount to more than 3% which isn't enough to affect the phenotype. The whole myth of the lost French soldiers in Los Altos was due to the phenotype. How far back did you have to go to find French and English ancestors? With about 5 generations of mixing with a different population a person's descendants loses most of their autosomal DNA. So most of your English and French ancestors' DNA would have been lost after about 5 generations and with it the phenotype. At that point the descendants are essentially Spanish and if that took place 20 generations ago that DNA would barely even show up in your results. If you had the ability to document all of your ancestral lines to the past 20 generations I would be surprised if you could prove that even 15% of your non-Amerindian ancestors hadn't been in Iberia at that point in time. That means a lot more than just over 50% of your ancestors would have been living in Iberia and mixing with the local population. It would have been closer to 85%.
In the academic studies published by Andres Moreno Estrada most Mexicans plot closer to Spaniards than to any other European group. He uses autosomal DNA for the plots and autosomal DNA is what we have inherited from multiple ancestral lines. If we had the ability to put people from Los Altos on a PCA plot that included Mexicans, from other regions, and Europeans the most likely results would be the people from Los Altos would plot with the Mexicans and they would plot closer to Iberians than to other Europeans. So our non-Amerindian autosomal DNA and our genealogical ancestry is mostly Iberian and much more than 50%. It's probably closer to the 85% I mentioned in the first paragraph.
If we go back far enough what we now know as English, French, German, or Spanish didn't even exist and all of those countries are melting pots too. See http://dna-explained.com/2014/10/21/peopling-of-europe-2014-identifying…
But if we use the data from what we now know as those regions and compare their Y-DNA to the non-Amerindian Y-DNA of the tri-state area of Jalisco, Aguascalientes, and Zacatecas it is very similar to that of Andalucía. So the Y-DNA that is in our region that isn't originally Iberian does exist in Iberia today. Extremadura and Andalucía is where a majority if the immigration from Spain to Mexico took place and that is also the case with the tri-state area and the Los Altos micro region. So even our Y-DNA shows that we have a lot more than 50% of our ancestors being from Iberia.
More large scale studies of different parts of Mexico, Spain, and Europe need to be done to verify that the numbers hold up but until then that is what we have as far as DNA.
Which families are the ones that you have found to be from northern Spain or the Basque country? I know of only a few that were mentioned in Retoños de España but I am wondering which other ones you have found.
Armando
Dear Armando,
I agree with what you wrote in your post. I have done much research and have worked on my genealogy for close to forty years now. I have much more than twenty generations on many of my lines Since you mention the 20th generation I went to my tree and immediately came up with an ancestor of mine Count D'Evreuex Louis Beaumont de Roger of France. Also 20 th generation Jeanne d'Albret and Arnaud de Curton 17 th generation would be Robert "Robin" Braquemont. I repeatedly descend from these people, along with other French, and what is now France but once called Pamplona. Their descendents intermarried often. But yes, over fifty percent of my ancestors do come from the Iberian peninsula.
From another line the French start at 21 at generation. I also descend from this line numerous times.
R.A.Ricci
¿Ojos rojizos? (yeux reux)
Victoriano Navarro
« Declaración del pretenso D. Mateo Norinat. ----- En la misma fecha [En la Ciudad de Lagos a veinte y ocho de Dbre. de mil ochocientos sesenta y siete], presente el pretendiente D. Mateo Norinat, integrado con arreglo a la materia bajo la religión del juramento que le tomé e hizo en forma, dijo: que se llama como está dicho, que es originario de Carlat le Comte, en Francia, vecino que fue de Méjico seis meses, en Guadalajara tres, y en Juachi jurisdicción de Ojuelos siete meses, en cuyo punto ha permanecido; soltero de veinte y nueve años de edad, hijo legítimo de D. Martin Norinat, que vive, y de D.a Margarita Crousset, ya difunta: que en efecto intenta contraer matrimonio según el orden de N. S. M. Y. C. A. R. (Nuestra Señora Madre Yglesia Católica Apostólica Romana) con Leonarda Olivares…originaria de esta ciudad y vecina de Juache hace siete meses, célibe de treinta años de edad, hija legítima de Santos Olivares, ya difunto, y de Antonia Vázquez, que vive….”
Dos de los testigos fueron franceses. . . “1º Testigo D. Pedro Pont…originario de Carcassone en Francia, y vecino de esta hace un año, casado, de treinta y cuatro años de edad, e industrioso…” Firmó como “Pierre Pont”.
[[[[[Pedro Pont tuvo varios hijos con Librada Zamora, antes de casarse con ella el 5 de septiembre de 1882.]]]]] { http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcassonne}
“2º testigo D. Domingo Ortolí…originario de Bonifacio en [la isla de Córcega] Francia, y vecino de esta hace dos años, casado, de veinte y nueve años de edad y comerciante….” [[[[Domingo Ortolí se casó con Rosalía Soto el 12 de septiembre de 1866] { http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonifacio}
El pretendiente, “Mateo Norinat”, como dice su certificado de liberación, nació como « Mathieu Basile Naudinat » « hijo de Martin [Naudinat] y de Mme. Marie [Marguerite] Crouzet » vecinos de Carlat le Comte, canton du Fossat, département de l’Ariège, nacido el 21 de enero de 1838, en Carlat le Comte, canton du Fossat, département de l’Ariège, » cabellos negros, cejas negras, ojos rudos, frente redonda, nariz mediana, boca mediana, cara […] talla de un metro 630 milimetros, profesión de Cultivador, último domicilio en Carlat le Comte, canton du Fossat, département de l’Ariège. »
Su lugar de nacimiento es la pequeña aldea de Carla-le-Comte, en el canton du Fossat [Le Fossat], en el departamento sureño de l’Ariège, muy cerca de las fronteras con España y Andorra. Después de la Revolución Francesa se le cambió el nombre de Carla-le-Comte a Carla-le-Peuple y finalmente a Carla-Bayle. {http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carla-Bayle} {http://tresordesregions.mgm.fr/Mdir.php?p=cant.php&cl=Fossat®ion=73}.
Name: Mateo Norinat
Spouse's Name: Leonarda Olivares
Event Date: 19 Mar 1868
Event Place: Santa Maria De Los Lagos,Lagos De Moreno,Jalisco,Mexico
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60419-9 , System Origin: Mexico-ODM , GS Film number: 221529
Citing this Record
"México, matrimonios, 1570-1950," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JCXD-DT1 : accessed 29 Sep 2014), Mateo Norinat and Leonarda Olivares, 19 Mar 1868; citing Santa Maria De Los Lagos,Lagos De Moreno,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 221529.
Steven Francisco Hernández López
Gracias por escribir y explicar todo. Sabes mucho de esto de los franceses. ;-)
Israel Sustaita Loera
Gracias por escribir y explicar todo. Sabes mucho de esto de los franceses. ;-)
Israel Sustaita Loera
Gracias por la explicación me imagino que por este tipo de casos se les dio para crear la historia esa de que la gente de rasgos europeos son de origen francés.
Israel Sustaita Loera
Es una carta de baja del ejército francés por haber cumplido el tiempo de servicio exigido por la ley (a terminé le temps de service exigé par la loi).
El militar era Mathien Basile Naudinat y ahí viene información de quiénes son sus padres (fils de), fecha y lugar de nacimiento (né le ... a.. canton .. départament), cabello, cejas, ojos, frente, nariz, boca, mentón, rostro y altura (cheveux .... millimetres), profesión, último domicilio.
Casado con ---- con domicilio en ---- vienen tachados (marié a...).
Inscrito como .... matrícula del cuerpo (militar) número ....
Hecho en (Fait a) León el primero de enero (janvier) de 1866
Au revoir!
Victoriano Navarro
"México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18686-69134-87?cc=1874591&wc… : accessed 27 Sep 2014), Guadalajara > Diócesis de Guadalajara > Matrimonios 1867-1878 > image 300 of 614.
Corps expéditionnaire du Mexique – 2e DIVISION . . . . . . PLACE de Léon
EMPIRE FRANÇAIS
Indication du corps. {51e Régiment d’Infanterie
CONGÉ DE LIBÉRATION.
NOUS soussignés Membres du conseil d’Administration du 51e Régiment d’Infanterie, Délivrons le présent Congé de libération au sieur Naudinat, Mathieu Basile, fils de Martin et de Mme. Marie Crouzet, domiciliés à Carlat le Comte, canton du Fossat, département de l’Ariège, né le 21 Janvier 1838, á Carlat le Comte, canton du Fossat, département de l’Ariège, cheveux Noirs, sourcils Noirs, yeux Roux, front Rond, nez Moyen, bouche Moyenne, menton Rond, visage Eviale, taille d’un mètre 630 millimètres, profession de Cultivateur, dernier domicile à Carlat le Comte, canton du Fossat, département de l’Ariège, marié à […] à D.e […] , domiciliée à […] lequel est inscrit comme Appelé de la Classe de 1858 au registre matriculé du corps sous le n⁰ 1438, le Douze Juin 1854 et a terminé le temps de service exigé par la loi le Trente Un Décembre mil huit Cent Soixante Cinq.
Fait à Léon, le premier Janvier, 1866.
Vu et VÉRIFIÉ :
Le Sous-Intendant militaire.
APPROUVÉ :
Le Général de division,
VU :
Le Général de brigade,
INDICATION DES SERVICES OU DE LA POSITION DANS LA RÉSERVE.
Entre au Service au 76e Régiment d’Infanterie le 12 Juin 1859 Comme Appelé inscrit sous le B.e 1088 de la Liste du Contingent du Département de l’Ariège (Classe de 1862) Arrivé au Corps le 29 Juin 1859.____
Passé au 51e Régiment d’Infanterie le 16 Juillet 1862 Décision Ministérielle du 3 audit._____
_____ Libéré du Service le 31 Décembre 1861._____
_____ A reçu un Certificat de bonne conduite._____
_____A retiré à Carlat le Comte, Département de l’Ariège._____
CAMPAGNES E BLESSURES.
Embarqué pour le Mexique le 22 août 1862, 1863, 1864, 1865._____
A reçu la médaille du Mexique._____
Bon chance!!!
Steven Francisco Hernández López
Alfonso Reynoso Rabago
Es desconcertante la expresión "yeux Roux" que se encuentra en el documento comentado. En efecto alguno de los participantes en este foro tradujo la expresión "yeux Roux" como "ojos rojos", otro como "rojizos" y otro más "rudos". En realida el término "roux" en francés se utiliza más para designar el color del pelo que el color de los ojos. Cuando se refiere al color del pelo, se trata del color rubio del pelo. Por eso desconcierta que el documento diga que los ojos del soldado francés sean de color rubio ("roux") ya que esa expresión no se usa ni en español y me parece que no se usa en francés pues no decimos "ojos rubios", y en google-france al buscar imágenes bajo la búsqueda "yeux roux" aparece la página
https://www.google.fr/?gws_rd=ssl#q=yeux+roux ni en francés "yeux roux".
En ella sólo aparecen mujeres rubias de pelo pero sus ojos de color azul, verde y marrón.
Pueden ustedes encontrar en: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rousseur#mediaviewer/File:Woman_redhead_na…
Una mujer de pelo rubio. En francés la expresión para describirla es: "Femme rousse (femenino de roux), ses cheveux sont roux et sa peau claire." que podría traducirse al español como "Mujer rubia, sus cabellos son rubios y su piel clara" pero observen que sus ojos son azules. En la misma imagen se describe a esa mujer en inglés como "Woman with natural red hair", es decir "Mujer con pelo natural rubio (red = rojo, rubio)".
En la página siguiente hay un interesante artículo sobre los rubios, en francés, que resumo a continuación. Está muy bien ilustrado:
http://www.demotivateur.fr/article-buzz/8-choses-que-vous-ne-saviez-pas…
"Les roux" en francés son "los rubios" y se refiere este calificativo al pelo. Vean que en el mismo nombre de la página anterior aparece la expresión "les roux". De ellos se dice: 1) Algo que ya señalé en mi participación anterior: nadie puede tener los ojos azules si no hereada el gen ojos azules tanto de la línea de su padre como de la de su madre ("il faut que les deux parents portent le gène en eux). 2) Los rubios tienen menos pelo pero más grueso ("Les roux ont moins de cheveux, mais ceux-ci sont plus épais." 3) Los rubios son más resistentes a la anestesia y a las sustancias contra el dolor ("Les roux sont plus résistants à l'anesthésie et aux anti-douleurs"). 4) Los rubios son más sensibles a los cambios de temperatura ("Les roux sont plus sensibles aux changements de température"). 5)Los rubios son extremadamente raros, es decir, son muy escasos ("Les roux sont extrêmement rares"). 6) Los rubios con ojos azules son aún más raros (escasos)... (" Les roux aux yeux bleus sont encore plus rares...") Aún más, el mismo artículo sigue diciendo: "Si la mayor parte de los rubios tienen los ojos marrones o verdes, sólo un puñado de individuos tienen los ojos azules. ¡Se trata de la combinación más rara (escasa) de color cabello(rubio)/ojos (azules) del mundo! Lástima, porque es muy bonita. Sólamente alrededor del 1% de los rubios tienen los ojos de ese color (azul)…("Si la plupart des roux ont les yeux marrons ou vert, une poignée d’individus ont les yeux bleus. ¡Il s’agit de la combinaison de couleur cheveux/yeux la plus rare du monde! Et c’est bien dommage, parce que c’est plutôt joli. Seuls 1% des roux environ ont les yeux de cette couleur…"). 7) Los rubios no tienen canas ("Les roux n'ont pas de cheveux gris"). 8) Los rubios producen más vitamina D (" Les roux produisent plus de vitamine D"), es decir, poca melanina que da color a su piel por eso tienen la piel pálida.
Por ello cuando el documento que comentamos habla de los "yeux Roux", se ha de referir más bien a los ojos de color marrón ya que el color marrón es el color que más rojo tiene de entre de los colores primarios. Esto sobre todo que el personaje descrito no es rubio (de pelo) sino de pelo negro.
Un saludo.
Alfonso Reynoso Rábago
Hola Alfonso
siento contradecirte pero el termino ROUX o Rousse , se refiere al pelo PELIRROJO, y no al rubio que en frances es como en ingles BLONDE
Saludos Julieta
----Message d'origine----
De : reynosoalfonso@hotmail.com
Date : 02/12/2014 - 16:49 (EO)
À : general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Objet : [Nuestros Ranchos] ¿Ojos rojos, rojizos, rudos, rubios, claros, marrón o verdes?
Alfonso Reynoso Rabago
Es desconcertante la expresión "yeux Roux" que se encuentra en el documento comentado. En efecto alguno de los participantes en este foro tradujo la expresión "yeux Roux" como "ojos rojos", otro como "rojizos" y otro más "rudos". En realida el término "roux" en francés se utiliza más para designar el color del pelo que el color de los ojos. Cuando se refiere al color del pelo, se trata del color rubio del pelo. Por eso desconcierta que el documento diga que los ojos del soldado francés sean de color rubio ("roux") ya que esa expresión no se usa ni en español y me parece que no se usa en francés pues no decimos "ojos rubios", y en google-france al buscar imágenes bajo la búsqueda "yeux roux" aparece la página
https://www.google.fr/?gws_rd=ssl#q=yeux+roux ni en francés "yeux roux".
En ella sólo aparecen mujeres rubias de pelo pero sus ojos de color azul, verde y marrón.
Pueden ustedes encontrar en: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rousseur#mediaviewer/File:Woman_redhead_na…
Una mujer de pelo rubio. En francés la expresión para describirla es: "Femme rousse (femenino de roux), ses cheveux sont roux et sa peau claire." que podría traducirse al español como "Mujer rubia, sus cabellos son rubios y su piel clara" pero observen que sus ojos son azules. En la misma imagen se describe a esa mujer en inglés como "Woman with natural red hair", es decir "Mujer con pelo natural rubio (red = rojo, rubio)".
En la página siguiente hay un interesante artículo sobre los rubios, en francés, que resumo a continuación. Está muy bien ilustrado:
http://www.demotivateur.fr/article-buzz/8-choses-que-vous-ne-saviez-pas…
"Les roux" en francés son "los rubios" y se refiere este calificativo al pelo. Vean que en el mismo nombre de la página anterior aparece la expresión "les roux". De ellos se dice: 1) Algo que ya señalé en mi participación anterior: nadie puede tener los ojos azules si no hereada el gen ojos azules tanto de la línea de su padre como de la de su madre ("il faut que les deux parents portent le gène en eux). 2) Los rubios tienen menos pelo pero más grueso ("Les roux ont moins de cheveux, mais ceux-ci sont plus épais." 3) Los rubios son más resistentes a la anestesia y a las sustancias contra el dolor ("Les roux sont plus résistants à l'anesthésie et aux anti-douleurs"). 4) Los rubios son más sensibles a los cambios de temperatura ("Les roux sont plus sensibles aux changements de température"). 5)Los rubios son extremadamente raros, es decir, son muy escasos ("Les roux sont extrêmement rares"). 6) Los rubios con ojos azules son aún más raros (escasos)... (" Les
roux aux
yeux bleus sont encore plus rares...") Aún más, el mismo artículo sigue diciendo: "Si la mayor parte de los rubios tienen los ojos marrones o verdes, sólo un puñado de individuos tienen los ojos azules. ¡Se trata de la combinación más rara (escasa) de color cabello(rubio)/ojos (azules) del mundo! Lástima, porque es muy bonita. Sólamente alrededor del 1% de los rubios tienen los ojos de ese color (azul)…("Si la plupart des roux ont les yeux marrons ou vert, une poignée d’individus ont les yeux bleus. ¡Il s’agit de la combinaison de couleur cheveux/yeux la plus rare du monde! Et c’est bien dommage, parce que c’est plutôt joli. Seuls 1% des roux environ ont les yeux de cette couleur…"). 7) Los rubios no tienen canas ("Les roux n'ont pas de cheveux gris"). 8) Los rubios producen poca vitamina D (" Les roux produisent plus de vitamine D"), es decir, poca melanina que da color a su piel por eso tienen la piel pálida.
Por ello cuando el documento que comentamos habla de los "yeux Roux", se ha de referir más bien a los ojos marrones ya que el color marrón es el color que más rojo tiene entre de los colores primarios. Esto sobre todo que el personaje descrito no es rubio (de pelo) sino de pelo negro.
Un saludo. Ojalá que a alguien le sirva algo de esto.
Alfonso Reynoso Rábago
Hola Alfonso
siento contradecirte pero el termino ROUX o Rousse , se refiere al pelo PELIRROJO, y no al rubio que en frances es como en ingles BLONDE
Saludos Julieta
----Message d'origine----
De : reynosoalfonso@hotmail.com
Date : 02/12/2014 - 16:49 (EO)
À : general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Objet : [Nuestros Ranchos] ¿Ojos rojos, rojizos, rudos, rubios, claros, marrón o verdes?
Alfonso Reynoso Rabago
Es desconcertante la expresión "yeux Roux" que se encuentra en el documento comentado. En efecto alguno de los participantes en este foro tradujo la expresión "yeux Roux" como "ojos rojos", otro como "rojizos" y otro más "rudos". En realida el término "roux" en francés se utiliza más para designar el color del pelo que el color de los ojos. Cuando se refiere al color del pelo, se trata del color rubio del pelo. Por eso desconcierta que el documento diga que los ojos del soldado francés sean de color rubio ("roux") ya que esa expresión no se usa ni en español y me parece que no se usa en francés pues no decimos "ojos rubios", y en google-france al buscar imágenes bajo la búsqueda "yeux roux" aparece la página
https://www.google.fr/?gws_rd=ssl#q=yeux+roux ni en francés "yeux roux".
En ella sólo aparecen mujeres rubias de pelo pero sus ojos de color azul, verde y marrón.
Pueden ustedes encontrar en: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rousseur#mediaviewer/File:Woman_redhead_na…
Una mujer de pelo rubio. En francés la expresión para describirla es: "Femme rousse (femenino de roux), ses cheveux sont roux et sa peau claire." que podría traducirse al español como "Mujer rubia, sus cabellos son rubios y su piel clara" pero observen que sus ojos son azules. En la misma imagen se describe a esa mujer en inglés como "Woman with natural red hair", es decir "Mujer con pelo natural rubio (red = rojo, rubio)".
En la página siguiente hay un interesante artículo sobre los rubios, en francés, que resumo a continuación. Está muy bien ilustrado:
http://www.demotivateur.fr/article-buzz/8-choses-que-vous-ne-saviez-pas…
"Les roux" en francés son "los rubios" y se refiere este calificativo al pelo. Vean que en el mismo nombre de la página anterior aparece la expresión "les roux". De ellos se dice: 1) Algo que ya señalé en mi participación anterior: nadie puede tener los ojos azules si no hereada el gen ojos azules tanto de la línea de su padre como de la de su madre ("il faut que les deux parents portent le gène en eux). 2) Los rubios tienen menos pelo pero más grueso ("Les roux ont moins de cheveux, mais ceux-ci sont plus épais." 3) Los rubios son más resistentes a la anestesia y a las sustancias contra el dolor ("Les roux sont plus résistants à l'anesthésie et aux anti-douleurs"). 4) Los rubios son más sensibles a los cambios de temperatura ("Les roux sont plus sensibles aux changements de température"). 5)Los rubios son extremadamente raros, es decir, son muy escasos ("Les roux sont extrêmement rares"). 6) Los rubios con ojos azules son aún más raros (escasos)... (" Les
roux aux
yeux bleus sont encore plus rares...") Aún más, el mismo artículo sigue diciendo: "Si la mayor parte de los rubios tienen los ojos marrones o verdes, sólo un puñado de individuos tienen los ojos azules. ¡Se trata de la combinación más rara (escasa) de color cabello(rubio)/ojos (azules) del mundo! Lástima, porque es muy bonita. Sólamente alrededor del 1% de los rubios tienen los ojos de ese color (azul)…("Si la plupart des roux ont les yeux marrons ou vert, une poignée d’individus ont les yeux bleus. ¡Il s’agit de la combinaison de couleur cheveux/yeux la plus rare du monde! Et c’est bien dommage, parce que c’est plutôt joli. Seuls 1% des roux environ ont les yeux de cette couleur…"). 7) Los rubios no tienen canas ("Les roux n'ont pas de cheveux gris"). 8) Los rubios producen poca vitamina D (" Les roux produisent plus de vitamine D"), es decir, poca melanina que da color a su piel por eso tienen la piel pálida.
Por ello cuando el documento que comentamos habla de los "yeux Roux", se ha de referir más bien a los ojos marrones ya que el color marrón es el color que más rojo tiene entre de los colores primarios. Esto sobre todo que el personaje descrito no es rubio (de pelo) sino de pelo negro.
Un saludo. Ojalá que a alguien le sirva algo de esto.
Alfonso Reynoso Rábago
Alfonso Reynoso Rabago
Totalmente de acuerdo contigo, Julieta. En mis aportes, empleé mal el término "rubio", debí haber empleado la voz "pelirrojo". En efecto, El Diccionario de Real Academia define al rubio como "Dicho especialmente del pelo: De color amarillento, parecido al del oro." Agradezco mucho la corrección de mi error. Y totalmente de acuerdo contigo de que la expresión francesa para rubio es "blond" o "blonde" en femenino.
Sin embargo el problema en el documento comentado es que se diga que el soldado descrito tiene los ojos "roux". ¿Ojos pelirrojos? Hasta donde sé, esa expresión no existe en francés como color de ojos. Investigaré mejor con personas de habla francesa.
Un saludo y mil gracias por la aclaración.
Alfonso Reynoso Rábago
hola Alfonso
el documento sobre el soldado no me llego o no pude abrir, pero me llamo la atencion el enlace que pusiste en donde en las fotos eran todos pelirrojos y tu escribias rubios :) es verdad que a veces hacemos errores tan obvios que no los notamos y creo que asi te paso a ti esta vez. :)
pero volviendo a los ojos rojos yeux roux, encontre en un libro , que aqui te paso el enlace, al parecer yeux roux es un termino que se usaba en la epoca de Napoleon y que describia unos ojos color "castana - rojizos" y que actualmente ya no se usa, tambien los habia amarillos y anaranjados !
http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/pop_0032-4663_19…
esta en la pag 643 un cuadro sobre los colores de ojos
Saludos Julieta
----Message d'origine----
De : reynosoalfonso@hotmail.com
Date : 06/12/2014 - 14:45 (EO)
À : general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Objet : [Nuestros Ranchos] ¿Pelirrojo o rubio?
Alfonso Reynoso Rabago
Totalmente de acuerdo contigo, Julieta. En mis aportes, empleé mal el término "rubio", debí haber empleado la voz "pelirrojo". En efecto, El Diccionario de Real Academia define al rubio como "Dicho especialmente del pelo: De color amarillento, parecido al del oro." Agradezco mucho la corrección de mi error. Y totalmente de acuerdo contigo de que la expresión francesa para rubio es "blond" o "blonde" en femenino.
Sin embargo el problema en el documento comentado es que se diga que el soldado descrito tiene los ojos "roux". ¿Ojos pelirrojos? Hasta donde sé, esa expresión no existe en francés como color de ojos. Investigaré mejor con personas de habla francesa.
Un saludo y mil gracias por la aclaración.
Alfonso Reynoso Rábago
Alfonso Reynoso Rabago
Totalmente de acuerdo contigo, Julieta. En mis aportes, empleé mal el término "rubio", debí haber empleado la voz "pelirrojo". En efecto, El Diccionario de Real Academia define al rubio como "Dicho especialmente del pelo: De color amarillento, parecido al del oro." Agradezco mucho la corrección de mi error. Y totalmente de acuerdo contigo de que la expresión francesa para rubio es "blond" o "blonde" en femenino.
Sin embargo el problema en el documento comentado es que se diga que el soldado descrito tiene los ojos "roux". ¿Ojos pelirrojos? Hasta donde sé, esa expresión no existe en francés como color de ojos. Investigaré mejor con personas de habla francesa.
Un saludo y mil gracias por la aclaración.
Alfonso Reynoso Rábago
Hoy me acordé de un estudio de ADN de los restos de una persona que vivía hace 7,000 años en España. Los resultados indican que tenia ojos azules pero tez morena. Fueron miles de años después que llegaron personas con tez blanca de Europa oriental a Europa occidental. Todavía están tratando de comprobar en cual continente y cual grupo étnico apareció la tez blanca por primera vez. Posiblemente apareció por primera vez en Asia y no en Europa.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2014/01/brown-skinned-blue-eyed-y-haplogro…
Armando
I believe that much of the history of the French legends in Jalisco and Zacatecas came not just from the blue or green eyes but because of the ancestors of many of the conquistadors. When I first studied the background of Hernan Cortez and the men that came to Mexico with him I was surprised to find that the majority of them came from three areas. One of those areas was the extremadura, close to the border with Portugal. The second area where many of these men came from was from the basque region. Many of these men came from an area that is now considered part of France. Just today I found out that an an ancestor of mine that was a conquistador that came from this basque area has maternal grandparents that were from even father north, in the northern region of France.
R.A.Ricci
Roux frances para el color rojo. Aunque la traduccion formal de rojo es
rouge. Puede que sea una descripcion del cabello.
*Very sincerely yours,*
*José de Jesús Legaspi*
2014-12-06 6:07 GMT-08:00 :
> Alfonso Reynoso Rabago
>
> Totalmente de acuerdo contigo, Julieta. En mis aportes, empleé mal el
> término "rubio", debí haber empleado la voz "pelirrojo". En efecto, El
> Diccionario de Real Academia define al rubio como "Dicho especialmente del
> pelo: De color amarillento, parecido al del oro." Agradezco mucho la
> corrección de mi error. Y totalmente de acuerdo contigo de que la expresión
> francesa para rubio es "blond" o "blonde" en femenino.
>
> Sin embargo el problema en el documento comentado es que se diga que el
> soldado descrito tiene los ojos "roux". ¿Ojos pelirrojos? Hasta donde sé,
> esa expresión no existe en francés como color de ojos. Investigaré mejor
> con personas de habla francesa.
>
> Un saludo y mil gracias por la aclaración.
> Alfonso Reynoso Rábago
Roux frances para el color rojo. Aunque la traduccion formal de rojo es
rouge. Puede que sea una descripcion del cabello.
*Very sincerely yours,*
*José de Jesús Legaspi*
2014-12-06 6:07 GMT-08:00 :
> Alfonso Reynoso Rabago
>
> Totalmente de acuerdo contigo, Julieta. En mis aportes, empleé mal el
> término "rubio", debí haber empleado la voz "pelirrojo". En efecto, El
> Diccionario de Real Academia define al rubio como "Dicho especialmente del
> pelo: De color amarillento, parecido al del oro." Agradezco mucho la
> corrección de mi error. Y totalmente de acuerdo contigo de que la expresión
> francesa para rubio es "blond" o "blonde" en femenino.
>
> Sin embargo el problema en el documento comentado es que se diga que el
> soldado descrito tiene los ojos "roux". ¿Ojos pelirrojos? Hasta donde sé,
> esa expresión no existe en francés como color de ojos. Investigaré mejor
> con personas de habla francesa.
>
> Un saludo y mil gracias por la aclaración.
> Alfonso Reynoso Rábago
sorry i haven't been updating it that often. there are three reasons for that: 1.
Katy,
I, and I'm sure many others, have benefitted enormously from your efforts to index the Dispensas, Capallanas, and Ordenes. Daily I check to see if you've made any new posts and it feels like Christmas when you have. I've been able to find entries that have helped my research from nearly each posting. I understand that school and "life" are priorities, but I also want to tell you how much I appreciate your work. Thank you, Deedra Corona
.
Katy first I'd like to thank you for all you share.
Can you tell me where you found the dispensation for Eutimio Banuelos and Gervacia Fernandez?
I checked the dispensations for those years and can't find anything for them
thanks,
Linda Castanon-Long
Hi Katy,
I was going through the capellanias of 1611-1654, and you say image 231 is for Leonor Arias, but I am not finding her on that page at all. Do you have more information on this particular entry?
http://guadalajaradispensas.tumblr.com/post/122205071083/capellan%C3%AD…
Thanks!
Sean
P.S. I would be happy to help with indexing, but I will be slow as well since I am in my first year of medical residency.
that index was one of the few indexes submitted by volunteers, so i'm not sure where the volunteer got that name from. thanks for pointing that out, after looking at the next few pages after 231, i think it maybe related to the entry before on 228, so i'll edit that post to remove that entry.
also there's a possibility that i'll convert some these indexes into excel/access format also.
I may change the theme also since the edit option wasn't showing up when viewing the post on the blog and had to use a round about way of editing that post.
also linda, banuelos/fernandez marriage record you are talking about maybe in a collection that i browsed but didn't index yet. since i do see i have a page from them posted on my tree on my ancestry, but it appears my bookmark link to that page isn't labeled(i occasioonally remember to label bookmarks with the name of the person(s) in document
edit: i found their marriage record
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9W8-MNK7?i=3798&wc=M28W-V…
Hi Katy,
I do not descend from the Quesada family but I do have second cousin surnamed Quesadas. My grandmothers half sister married a quesada. I have never met any of them though my great aunt that is the daughter of my great aunt (and godmother) has been in contact with them. Where is your family from?
Rick A. Ricci
my grandpa's family comes from las bocas, jalisco, mexico. the furthest i could trace my quezada surname line(not counting lines they married into like enriquez,de la torre, marquez,villaneda etc.) i've only traced up to a felipe quezada born in the late 1600's
Hi Katy,
My connection to the Quesada is through my grandmother who was De La Torre.
Hi Katy,
My oldest sister had told me that my grandmothers half sister was married into the Quesadas. I took her word for it because I remembered that someone on my maternal grandmothers side had married a quesada. I just now took a look at my records and i think my sister made a slight mistake. She may be correct that a great aunt of mine married a Quesada because I don't have all of the information on my grandmothers half sisters though I remember meeting them when I was a kid.
What I found in my records is that my great grandmothers half sister, Maria Guadalupe Rodriguez Ybarra was married to Erasmo Quesada y Lopez. She was much younger than my great grandmother as she was from my great great grandfathers third marriage to Priisiliana Ybarra. Maria Guadalupe was closer in age to my grandmothers younger half sisters so that is why I believe my sister mistakenly identified her as her half sister.
In my records, I have Erasmo Quesada Lopez as the son of Jose Quesada Velez and Guadalupe Lopez. Erasmo was born in Guanajuato on 25/Nov/1901.
PS I told my sister about my post and she says that my information is correct and that it is not through a half sister like she had originally told me. She says that she mentioned the people to our dad and that he had corrected her. Our dad says that they used to visit him at his place of business many years ago.
Erasmo Quesada Lopez and Maria Guadalupe Rodriguez Ybarra have a son kind of late in life named Humberto Quesada Rodriguez. I wrote kind of late because Ma.Gpe was 38 when Humberto was born. Humberto is my grandmothers half first cousin though he is much closer to my age than hers. Humberto married Mary Tenorio Rodriguez and they have two children according to my records
I shouldn't write that 38 is late since I had my only child at 43.
Humberto and Maria Guadalupe's kids are second cousins to my dad but are the age of my dads oldest grandchildren. In a similar vein, this disparity of ages, in a relatively short amount of time, is what caused most genealogies of the ancestors of the Sanchez (Toribio Hernandez Sanchez) family to be misaligned.
R.A.Ricci- i have no clue if those quesadas are related to mines. i haven't even been able to find a common ancestor with the quesadas from nochistlan yet.
Hello Everyone,
Please review attached Ancestor report and let me know if we have any connections or information that could help me fill in the gaps. Thank you!
-Erika
Just a note: Paula Santana is my Paternal Great grandmother. She married Felix Rivera on May 29, 1926 in Cuale, Jalisco, Mexico.
Felix Rivera was born on Nov. 26, 1905 in San Sebastian del Oeste, Jalisco, Mexico and died in Nayarit, Mexico under the name Domingo Rivera.
Hi Erika,
We haven't exchanged messages yet. It looks like we have some ancestors in common. I will look this over this weekend and see if I can contribute anything.
Good luck!
S. Sean Salés
Hi Sean,
Thanks so much for taking a look!
-Erika
Hi Sergio ssales1984,
I wanted to compare our notes/family trees on the Santa Ana side (Lopes Bueso).
Let me know if this is something you'd be interested in doing.
Thanks!
-Erika Rivera
Erika
I took at look at your attachment, and I believe I can offer a bit of help:
Carmen Santana [Ruiz], #5 on your chart, is Maria Carmen Ruiz, who was baptized 1 Aug 1844, San Miguel parish, Ayutla, Jalisco, daughter of Albino Ruiz and Ambrocia Ramona Valle, as you have noted, but the baptismal record gives the grandparents:
....Rafael Ruiz and Maria Coronado (I did not find other info on them)
....Antonio Maria Coronado y Valle and Maria Micaela Gusman (more below)
Antonio Maria Coronado y Valle was from the Rancho de Camajapa (spelling?), Cocula, Jalisco, son of Simon Narciso Valle and Maria Teresa de Lara. He married 12 May 1803, Corazon de Jesus parish, Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Maria Micaela Gusman, daughter of Jose Gusman and Josefa Jauregui.
....Simon Narciso Valle & Maria Teresa de Lara -- I found no further info.
....Jose Gusman and Josefa Jauregui -- I found no further info.
Vicente Sanches, your #18, is Jose Vicente Sanches, born est 1761/66 [based on age of 20/25 at marriage] in Puerto de Temaxcas, son of Nicolas Sanches and Maria Manuela Espinosa. He married on 6 Feb 1786 in San Miguel, Ejutla, Jalisco, Maria Gertrudis Olibera (viuda), born in Hacienda de Santa Anna. I did find Maria Gertrudis's first marriage record.
....Nicholas Sanches and Manuela Espinosa -- I found no further info.
Some corrections:
#14, Jose Norberto Araiza, is Jose Roberto Araiza
#20, Jose Eufacio Araiza, is Jose Eufracio Araiza
#24, Franco Corona, is Francisco Gonzales Corona
The marriage date for Juan Jose Santana (#12) and Maria Vicenta Simona Sanches is not 17 Apr 1870, but actually 19 Jun 1805, Sagrado Corazon de Jesus, Tenamaxtlan, Jalisco.
By using Family Search I was able to add children to most of the families in your chart, and in some cases their spouses.
All the data above with "real dates," month-day-year, are from the Catholic Church records posted at Family Search, and also will turn up through the search, and will be fairly easy to find.
For further research, the matrimonial investigations may help with the gaps, as you sometimes find records there that are not in the marriage registers. Unfortunately these are typically not indexed, not in good chronological order (sometimes years are mixed up), and have not been extracted. Unfortunately they are tedious to search.
I do have a question: where (what town) are El Donacito and Rancho de las Partidas?
Good luck with your future searches!
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Thank you so much, George! I'm going to go back to my family tree and make those edits.
Regarding El Donacito, I found it mentioned in my great grandmother's marriage entry. It's on the Left page, top right.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18452-84151-28
Rancho de las Partidas is mentioned in the marriage of Simon Santana y Concepcion Ramirez.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-21311-43190-47?cc=1918187
Erika
The document for your great-grandmother is the Matrimonial Investigation. This is a process that takes place prior to marriage in the Catholic Church; it could be a few weeks (if no complications) to months (if there are impediments to the marriage, and a dispensation is needed) before the actual marriage. In a few cases it is only days before the wedding, but this is not common. I suspect the marriage was in June 1926: unfortunately there are no marriage records for this year in El Tuito. The investigations were usually done in the parish that the couple was married in, but not always.
The document says she was 21 years old, originally from and a resident of San Sebastian for 17 years, resident of La Pena for 3 years, and El Tuito for 1 year. I would not take her age as necessarily correct, but would like verification from a baptismal or civil birth record. The baptismal records of San Sebastian del Oeste seem to be pretty complete: there are records for San Sebastian as well as several auxilliary chapels, so with luck the baptismal record is there. I would start in the estimated year of her birth and go forward if not found in that year, before looking at older records.
Rancho de la Partidas is near Tomatlan, since it is mentioned in those records simply as "Rancho de las Partidas" without mentioning a different jurisdiction.
The 1930 Census for Puerto Vallarta shows the family of Jose de Jesus Rivera and Maria del Refugio Flores. Although relationships aren't given, I believe the listing is of the couple, their children (including their married son), then the daughter-in-law (Paula), and finally the granddaughter. This is the url
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11778-109331-28?cc=1307314
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
George, you are wonderful!
I had no idea there were pre-marriage investigations. I think the 21 year old is actually my great grandfather, Felix Rivera and not Paula Santana. I did find Felix' baptism record in San Sebastian del Oeste. I think his full name is Jose Felix Rivera (Ribera). I have some updating to do on my family tree, so excited!! :)
Birth registration:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18685-72749-98
Baptism:
Erika
You are correct, Felix, and not Paula, is 21.
I have also found El Donacito on the map: it is a rather small town north of Tomatlan and close to El Tuito.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Thank you so much, George! I'm going to go back to my family tree and make those edits.
Regarding El Donacito, I found it mentioned in my great grandmother's marriage entry. It's on the Left page, top right.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18452-84151-28
Rancho de las Partidas is mentioned in the marriage of Simon Santana y Concepcion Ramirez.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-21311-43190-47?cc=1918187
Hello George Fulton,
I came across this response today and it caught my eye that you were citing Tenamaxtlan, Jalisco; an area that I have researched extensively. I was very interested that you said you had found the marriage of Pedro Munoz and Maria Gertrudes Oliveras. Would you be so kind to please pass it along, I've searched all afternoon with no luck. I have her in my tree as daughter of Gabriel Oliveras and Maria Feliciana Garcia. I have Gabriel's mother as Maria Toscano and Gfather as Jose Maria Toscano, but I am unable to go further.
Thank you, Deedra Corona
A lady in one of my other genealogy groups asked if there is a way to trace one's family back to the Aztecs. Any and all information will be appreciated.
Thanks, Gloria
To all who replied, thank you!
Gloria
A study published by Andrés Moreno-Estrada et al. in 2014 used the dataset from the Bustamate lab that was used for the tests of the DNA of Sandra Cisneros and for Jessica Alba. The study was talked about on this site shortly after it was published. You can read the study if you get a free account to Science Mag. You will have the option for free registration when you try to open the link at http://science.sciencemag.org/content/344/6189/1280.full
Once you do you can get all of the details of the DNA results of Native Mexicans and Cosmpolitan Mexicans from all over Mexico including two of the three states this site is dedicated to which are Jalisco and Zacatecas.
Even without free registration you can see the following ADMIXTURE results for different Native Mexican tribes such as Huichol, Purepecha, Nahua Jalisco and other Nahuas, and different Mayan tribes. As pointed out by RJQ the Aztecs were a Nahua tribe. If you notice almost all tribes have the purple which is a group of autosomal SNPs shared by all of them that have the purple. The Huichol have almost all of the very light blue and Mayans have a lot of the orange. The Nahua Jalisco have a mix of the purple, the Huichol light blue, and the orange Mayan. If you also look at the cosmopolitan samples from Zacatecas and Jalisco you will see they also have a mix of purple, light blue, and orange.
In summary we all have a mix of autosomal DNA that the Huichol, Nahua, and Mayan also have because many the SNPs are from many thousands of years ago from when they first populated Mexico around 14,000 years ago and some are from being mixed since several tribes such as the Tlaxcalans and Otomí assisted in the conquest of Mexico.
As far as mtDNA A that Linda mentioned it is all over Mexico and with a Full Sequence mtDNA test, which is the best kind of mtDNA test, she would show to be a subclade of A2. In a 2012 study of Native Mexicans A2 was 55% of Huichol, 57% of Nahua, 49% of Otomí Sierra, and 79% of Maya. That study is at http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0044666 The graph has the mtDNA haplogroups mislabeled but the text of the study and the table have the correct names of A2, B2, C1, and D1.
..
just fascinating!
Thank you for the follow up information.
Linda Castanon-Long
I just realized I hadn't included a link to the image of the ADMIXTURE results of Native and Cosmopolitan Mexicans that shows the autosomal SNPs in different colors and shows that people from Zacatecas and Jalisco have a mix of Huichol, Nahua, and Mayan autosomal DNA. It's at https://d2ufo47lrtsv5s.cloudfront.net/content/sci/344/6189/1280/F2.larg…
On the PBS show "Finding your Roots," Sandra Cisneros was given a test that she was the first to receive as it was a new DNA test to show from what tribe, Nation one was from. Several people have left comments to find out what test that was but they have been ignored.
"Which DNA test did Sandra Cisneros take to show her Mayan roots? Dr. Gates mentioned it was new"
I thought all of us of Native Americans from New Mexico and Mexico who show Native blood had our DNA traced back to Mayans, no?
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: sarod77@hotmail.com
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 16:21:32 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sandra Cisneros
>
> On the PBS show "Finding your Roots," Sandra Cisneros was given a test that
> she was the first to receive as it was a new DNA test to show from what
> tribe, Nation one was from. Several people have left comments to find out
> what test that was but they have been ignored. "Which DNA test did Sandra
> Cisneros take to show her Mayan roots? Dr. Gates mentioned it was new"
>
I really don't know anything about this subject only added what I had seen on PBS and thought I would share so maybe an expert or someone with more knowledge would add to this conversation.
I had a question about the science site with the Mayan, Huichol and Nahua
mixtures but my question is not very clear. I know that some of my
ancestors were from the Caxcan tribe headed by the Mendoza's and I don't
know what happened to the Caxcan people, maybe they disappeared or maybe
they just mixed with the Spanish people like Chief Blas de Mendoza. but
does anyone know how that DNA is researched? are they part of the Mayan,
Huichol or NAhuas or have they just disappeared? so as an example say that
all my indigenous ancestors were Caxcan people from Teocaltiche and since
I don't see the Caxcan tribe listed as one of the tribes of the Native
Mexicans on the admixture picture, would my Caxcan DNA be reclassified
under another tribe or would it be redistributed among several different
tribes or just not be listed
Danny C. Alonso
Danny,
Check out the following posts my prima Alicia made on Nuestros Ranchos a
few years back. I've attached them here because the Tachiquin last name is
most likely a Caxcan last name that still survives today. As far as I know
there are still some Tachiquin families in el barrio de San Sebastian in
Nochistlan, not far from Teocaltiche. I'm not sure how much of European and
other DNAs have been mixed into this family over the years. My DNA has
Caxcan DNA as most if not all of the people with ancestry in this part of
Mexico does. The Caxcanes have been mixed in with European, African, Middle
Eastern, Asian DNA's present in this part of Mexico. This is the mestisaje
that makes us Mexican. I'm not aware of any pure Caxcan people living
today, but the Tachiquin elders are probably the closest we can get to pure
Caxcan DNA. Years ago Family Tree DNA listed my indigenous DNA as Mayan,
but today it's just listed as Native American most likely because they know
there are distinct and different indigenous DNA throughout Mexico. Mayans
are quite a bit farther south in Mexico so I'm pretty sure Caxcanes are not
Mayan. Based on some quick research, there are some sites stating the
Caxcan are part of the Uto-Aztecan family as are the aztecas, huicholes,
zacatecos, nahuas and matlatzincas. Since DNA research in Mexico is in its
infancy so to speak, more refined markers identifying Caxcan DNA are not
available as far as I know. Maybe that will change with the work of Dr.
Carlos Bustamante at Stanford University.
Saludos,
Juan Aguayo
See past post below:
Lisa,
As you may know, surnames were not used by the native American people.
Having
said that, the surname of Tachiquin is indigenous to the area of Nochistlan
and
is the only known indian surname that survived and was not converted to
spanish
or the castillian language.
Aside from this, I don't know anything else about this surname other than
it was
and is an original indian surname. Would your grandfather by chance be from
Tenayuca or Toyahua in the municipality of Nochistlan?
Alicia,
San Jose, Calif
________________________________
From: "lisacruz_1967@hotmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 5:56:49 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help with a Surname
Can any one tell me about the Name Tachiquin. My Great Grandfather's name is
Pedro Tachiquin, we do not know anything about him except that he was
indio, and
from Nochistlan. I would like to know about the people in that area if any
one
can help me I sure would appreciate it. Many thanks.
- Login
or register
to post comments
Tachiquin Surname's origins
Submitted by oldcar53 on Wed, 2011-03-23 03:00.
Lisa,
Good news, I knew that I'd read something somewhere about the surname
Tachiquin
and today I had time to look into it and found the following.
In the book Nochistlan de Zacatecas by Evelia Clotilde Quirarte there's a
section that tells of a few indian surnames.
The surname Tachiquin corresponds to families that originated in the Barrio
of
San Sebastian of Nochistlan. The Tachiquin surname is believed to have
originally been tlachiunqui that was then converted to tlachinqui. The
letter t
before the letter L is characteristic of the language of the cazcan nation
indigenous to the area of Nochistlan and the surrounding areas. She states
that
the etimology of the word tlachiuanite means to cast a spell. (espanol),(
hechizar, aojar, el encantador, el que hechiza)
She believed that the original Tachiquin may have been an important healer
or
medicine man or man of influence in the Caxcan community.
In 1913, a person with the name of Tachiquin was honored for giving his
life for
defending Nochistlan.
I hope this helps.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca.
On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 12:37 AM, Danny Alonso wrote:
> I had a question about the science site with the Mayan, Huichol and Nahua
> mixtures but my question is not very clear. I know that some of my
> ancestors were from the Caxcan tribe headed by the Mendoza's and I don't
> know what happened to the Caxcan people, maybe they disappeared or maybe
> they just mixed with the Spanish people like Chief Blas de Mendoza. but
> does anyone know how that DNA is researched? are they part of the Mayan,
> Huichol or NAhuas or have they just disappeared? so as an example say that
> all my indigenous ancestors were Caxcan people from Teocaltiche and since
> I don't see the Caxcan tribe listed as one of the tribes of the Native
> Mexicans on the admixture picture, would my Caxcan DNA be reclassified
> under another tribe or would it be redistributed among several different
> tribes or just not be listed
>
> Danny C. Alonso
The above comments on Caxcan surnames was interesting. I was wondering if other NA groups have surnames in Mexico.
I know that there are Yucatec Maya surnames, and they're fairly common. They tend to be regular words, sometimes rather "funny" to our minds. My ex-husband was yucateco, and his maternal surname was Uc, which mean piojo. His mother is Uc Cab (honey). Chan is a common name, not sure of the meaning, as is Balam, which I believe is jaguar. Pech means agarrapatas. I've seen Dzul as well.
Anyway, just an interesting topic.
Laura Gonzalez
Juan,
Thank you for this information. It's very informative. I was not aware of
any of it before.
Danny C, Alonso
On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 9:12 AM, Juan Aguayo
wrote:
> Danny,
>
> Check out the following posts my prima Alicia made on Nuestros Ranchos a
> few years back. I've attached them here because the Tachiquin last name is
> most likely a Caxcan last name that still survives today. As far as I know
> there are still some Tachiquin families in el barrio de San Sebastian in
> Nochistlan, not far from Teocaltiche. I'm not sure how much of European and
> other DNAs have been mixed into this family over the years. My DNA has
> Caxcan DNA as most if not all of the people with ancestry in this part of
> Mexico does. The Caxcanes have been mixed in with European, African, Middle
> Eastern, Asian DNA's present in this part of Mexico. This is the mestisaje
> that makes us Mexican. I'm not aware of any pure Caxcan people living
> today, but the Tachiquin elders are probably the closest we can get to pure
> Caxcan DNA. Years ago Family Tree DNA listed my indigenous DNA as Mayan,
> but today it's just listed as Native American most likely because they know
> there are distinct and different indigenous DNA throughout Mexico. Mayans
> are quite a bit farther south in Mexico so I'm pretty sure Caxcanes are not
> Mayan. Based on some quick research, there are some sites stating the
> Caxcan are part of the Uto-Aztecan family as are the aztecas, huicholes,
> zacatecos, nahuas and matlatzincas. Since DNA research in Mexico is in its
> infancy so to speak, more refined markers identifying Caxcan DNA are not
> available as far as I know. Maybe that will change with the work of Dr.
> Carlos Bustamante at Stanford University.
>
>
> Saludos,
>
> Juan Aguayo
>
> See past post below:
>
> Lisa,
>
> As you may know, surnames were not used by the native American people.
> Having
> said that, the surname of Tachiquin is indigenous to the area of Nochistlan
> and
> is the only known indian surname that survived and was not converted to
> spanish
> or the castillian language.
>
> Aside from this, I don't know anything else about this surname other than
> it was
> and is an original indian surname. Would your grandfather by chance be from
> Tenayuca or Toyahua in the municipality of Nochistlan?
>
> Alicia,
> San Jose, Calif
>
> ________________________________
> From: "lisacruz_1967@hotmail.com"
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 5:56:49 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help with a Surname
>
> Can any one tell me about the Name Tachiquin. My Great Grandfather's name
> is
> Pedro Tachiquin, we do not know anything about him except that he was
> indio, and
> from Nochistlan. I would like to know about the people in that area if any
> one
> can help me I sure would appreciate it. Many thanks.
>
> - Login
> <
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/user/login?destination=comment%2Freply%2…
> >
> or register
> <
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/user/register?destination=comment%2Frepl…
> >
> to post comments
>
> Tachiquin Surname's origins
>
> Submitted by oldcar53 on Wed, 2011-03-23 03:00.
>
> Lisa,
>
> Good news, I knew that I'd read something somewhere about the surname
> Tachiquin
> and today I had time to look into it and found the following.
>
> In the book Nochistlan de Zacatecas by Evelia Clotilde Quirarte there's a
> section that tells of a few indian surnames.
>
> The surname Tachiquin corresponds to families that originated in the Barrio
> of
> San Sebastian of Nochistlan. The Tachiquin surname is believed to have
> originally been tlachiunqui that was then converted to tlachinqui. The
> letter t
> before the letter L is characteristic of the language of the cazcan nation
> indigenous to the area of Nochistlan and the surrounding areas. She states
> that
> the etimology of the word tlachiuanite means to cast a spell. (espanol),(
> hechizar, aojar, el encantador, el que hechiza)
>
> She believed that the original Tachiquin may have been an important healer
> or
> medicine man or man of influence in the Caxcan community.
>
> In 1913, a person with the name of Tachiquin was honored for giving his
> life for
> defending Nochistlan.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Alicia,
> San Jose, Ca.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 12:37 AM, Danny Alonso
> wrote:
>
> > I had a question about the science site with the Mayan, Huichol and Nahua
> > mixtures but my question is not very clear. I know that some of my
> > ancestors were from the Caxcan tribe headed by the Mendoza's and I don't
> > know what happened to the Caxcan people, maybe they disappeared or maybe
> > they just mixed with the Spanish people like Chief Blas de Mendoza. but
> > does anyone know how that DNA is researched? are they part of the Mayan,
> > Huichol or NAhuas or have they just disappeared? so as an example say
> that
> > all my indigenous ancestors were Caxcan people from Teocaltiche and since
> > I don't see the Caxcan tribe listed as one of the tribes of the Native
> > Mexicans on the admixture picture, would my Caxcan DNA be reclassified
> > under another tribe or would it be redistributed among several different
> > tribes or just not be listed
> >
> > Danny C. Alonso
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
I am 30 to 40% native american. The best web page that has dna analysis is
gedmatch. Using oracle 4.
You need to get dna test in one of the mayor companies 23 and me,
familytreedna , ancesntry or National geo. The best was 23 and me but it
has change. Fanily tree dna is the best in market i think.
Then you can up load data to
dna.land
https://www.gedmatch.com : this is the best it has oracle 4 and you can
choose what territory to search on.
Jose Luis Zambrano De Santiago "El Euforia".
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 10:37 PM, Danny Alonso wrote:
> I had a question about the science site with the Mayan, Huichol and Nahua
> mixtures but my question is not very clear. I know that some of my
> ancestors were from the Caxcan tribe headed by the Mendoza's and I don't
> know what happened to the Caxcan people, maybe they disappeared or maybe
> they just mixed with the Spanish people like Chief Blas de Mendoza. but
> does anyone know how that DNA is researched? are they part of the Mayan,
> Huichol or NAhuas or have they just disappeared? so as an example say that
> all my indigenous ancestors were Caxcan people from Teocaltiche and since
> I don't see the Caxcan tribe listed as one of the tribes of the Native
> Mexicans on the admixture picture, would my Caxcan DNA be reclassified
> under another tribe or would it be redistributed among several different
> tribes or just not be listed
>
> Danny C. Alonso
IN familytreedna you can start a group for your tribe.
Jose Luis Zambrano De Santiago "El Euforia".
On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 10:55 AM, JOSE L. Zambrano
wrote:
> I am 30 to 40% native american. The best web page that has dna analysis is
> gedmatch. Using oracle 4.
>
> You need to get dna test in one of the mayor companies 23 and me,
> familytreedna , ancesntry or National geo. The best was 23 and me but it
> has change. Fanily tree dna is the best in market i think.
>
> Then you can up load data to
>
> dna.land
>
> https://www.gedmatch.com : this is the best it has oracle 4 and you can
> choose what territory to search on.
>
>
>
> Jose Luis Zambrano De Santiago "El Euforia".
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 10:37 PM, Danny Alonso
> wrote:
>
>> I had a question about the science site with the Mayan, Huichol and Nahua
>> mixtures but my question is not very clear. I know that some of my
>> ancestors were from the Caxcan tribe headed by the Mendoza's and I don't
>> know what happened to the Caxcan people, maybe they disappeared or maybe
>> they just mixed with the Spanish people like Chief Blas de Mendoza. but
>> does anyone know how that DNA is researched? are they part of the Mayan,
>> Huichol or NAhuas or have they just disappeared? so as an example say that
>> all my indigenous ancestors were Caxcan people from Teocaltiche and since
>> I don't see the Caxcan tribe listed as one of the tribes of the Native
>> Mexicans on the admixture picture, would my Caxcan DNA be reclassified
>> under another tribe or would it be redistributed among several different
>> tribes or just not be listed
>>
>> Danny C. Alonso
The new dna test was performed by Stanford professor Carlos Bustamante. I'm
by no means an expert on indigenous DNA in Mexico, but I do know there are
measurable differences within the various tribes in Mexico, many of which
do not trace back to the Mayans.
Saludos,
Juan Aguayo
On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 6:21 PM, wrote:
> On the PBS show "Finding your Roots," Sandra Cisneros was given a test that
> she was the first to receive as it was a new DNA test to show from what
> tribe, Nation one was from. Several people have left comments to find out
> what test that was but they have been ignored. "Which DNA test did Sandra
> Cisneros take to show her Mayan roots? Dr. Gates mentioned it was new"
>
The new dna test was performed by Stanford professor Carlos Bustamante. I'm
by no means an expert on indigenous DNA in Mexico, but I do know there are
measurable differences within the various tribes in Mexico, many of which
do not trace back to the Mayans.
Saludos,
Juan Aguayo
On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 6:21 PM, wrote:
> On the PBS show "Finding your Roots," Sandra Cisneros was given a test that
> she was the first to receive as it was a new DNA test to show from what
> tribe, Nation one was from. Several people have left comments to find out
> what test that was but they have been ignored. "Which DNA test did Sandra
> Cisneros take to show her Mayan roots? Dr. Gates mentioned it was new"
>
As Juan Aguayo pointed out, the test provided to Cisneros (and, I believe, Jessica Alba in her episode) was provided by Dr. Carlos Bustamante at Stanford. His website https://bustamantelab.stanford.edu/ provides an opportunity to fill out a questionnaire if you are interested in his study on Native American ancestry. The link is on the lower right of the page. The test is not available to the public-- what we saw in the episodes is just a special opportunity given to a few people.
Here's our chance to express our interest, though, and maybe Dr. Bustamante will make the test available to us in the future!
Rosalinda
thanks to all for the conversation and information. I will go the site and show my interest.
The short answer would be no, its very unlikely that someone can factually find of what native tribe their descendants were from, for once, there was too much mixture after the establishment of the colony to say that a line of native ancestry was of a single party, Aztecs were one of many Nahuatl tribes (although some writings would argue that all Nahuatl were Aztecs) and the ones favored by the Spanish, which in turn made their documentation highly romanticized, consequently many people think in all natives from the Mexico region as Aztecs, but the there were many others and vary by regions. Also is important to note that this subcultures are distinguish by language and not biologically, is obvious that while the different tribes migrated, some of them would mix along the way. Thus wouldn't be impossible to find an Aztec with a Chichimeca dna.
I wouldn't say impossible though, may be as time pass, or like when related to some lineages like the Moctezuma's, that were somehow documented and established, their "Ducado" still exist, many other tribes married their aristocrat kids with Spanish to keep their wealth, etc. They may be traceable.
Now if someone wants to know if they have Native blood, regardless of which tribe/culture they come from, then that's easier, as Linda mentioned, dna can't give a bit more information*, also good old plain genealogy with documents can provide many clues, But focusing only on finding this facts is very counterproductive, and for many, disappointing. I personally don't recommended. Mexico, as much denial as there is been for decades, was in fact a "melting pot", all the way from Africa to Asia, from South America to the North, is way better to open the "vault" of our ancestry and be surprised by its content.
*Note, it was known that Asian natives were brought and many were left in Mexico, specially from the Philippines, (and the same the other way around), their christian names makes it impossible to trace with documents, although very small in number, some people may have their dna, but would be considered "native dna" simply because they are Hispanics, don't take my word for granted, as far as I remember these groups are not yet fully distinguishable from each other.
Dear RJQ,
I will pass on the information to the lady who asked the question.
Thank you very much for replying.
Gloria
when I had my MTDNA (Mother to Daughter only) it came back that my first Mother was Native American Group A. In Mexico she would have been Nahua and that was part of the Aztec Nation. I have no idea what DNA the men would have had.. Unfortunately I have had no luck tracking that line back any further than 1850 or so in Michoacan, Mexico.
Linda Castanon-Long
Hallo everybody:
As I have understand in Wikipedia in spanish, The Caxcans were one of the 7 Aztlan tribes, so they were related with Aztecs.
did they cite a source for that claim?
Thank You Martha. This was very interesting. I didn't know anything about the Cazcanes really. I wish they were still around today to get more information about.
Danny C. Alonso
Katy,
I looked at the Cazcan wikipidia page and it has a lot of sources. It looks pretty researched, I wish I could read it. I think the mention about the similarity to the Aztecs came from this page which is the first cited on the Wikipedia page
http://centzuntli.blogspot.mx/search?q=Caxcanes
I don't know what it says but I can see Antonio Tello is mentioned in the first sentence.
Danny C. Alonso
I'm hoping to find information on a Adolfo Martinez B. who was (a judge?) in charge of documenting entries for civil records during 1916 records I found.
Not quite sure if the Hacienda Carro of San Luis Potosi, is the one you are looking for. Before 1799, I believe it was under the jurisdication of Zacatecas. Some of my maternal line is there, but not sure who.
I'm hoping to find information on a Adolfo Martinez B. who was (a judge?) in charge of documenting entries for civil records during 1916 records I found.
Solid work. Thank you!