Nuestros Ranchos Site

Sunday, May 17, 2009

Dear Daniel--

I checked your names with what I had in Ayo el Chico and could find nothing. Sorry.

Patricia Burton
San Diego

--- On Sat, 5/16/09, mendezdelcamino@live.com wrote:

> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Any help with Ayo El Chico? (Ayotlán)
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 10:41 PM
> Hi all I have this couple Felipe Navarro (ca. 1730) Ma.
> Rosalía de Guzmán (ca. 1735) who had Ma. San Juan baptized
> 6 jul 1763 who married Juan de Aceves? Does anyonehave info
> on this people who have focused on Ayo Elchico or its
> surroundsings Arandas, Tepatitlán, La Barca etc..? Were
> talking from 1730 or so to the late 1700's with this
> family? Many thanks? -Daniel Camino

Cheque:

Para responder a tu pregunta toca saber si has visto los registros si mismos o estas basando los nombres que mencionas solamente de las transcripciones de otros o de la base de datos de los mormones.

Si seriamente quieres tener informacion correcta toca pedir los rollos correspondientes y leerlos en si. Es muy posible que el voluntario que transcribio el bautismo de Maria Canuta Padilla haya leido mal el registro pero no podras saber eso sin leerlo tu mismo. Ademas es posible que el cura o el escribano "se le chispotio" y puso el nombre mal.

Segun la base de datos de los mormones, el matrimonio de los padres de Maria Canuta que se celebro el 6 de mayo de 1809, el novio se llamaba Anastacio asi que ahora tienes tres nombres...

Hola, no sé si tienes este dato? -Daniel Camino

José Santa Ana Gutiérrez, hijo de Ignacio Gutiérrez y Salomé Gutiérrez

Canuta Padilla, hija de Antonio de Padilla y Francisca Pérez del Gallo

casaron 1 oct 1839

en Jalostotitlán

José Ana se bautizó 28 JUL 1815 en San Juan de los Lagos.

. VICTORIANO GUTIERREZ - International Genealogical Index / ME
Gender: Male Birth: El Tule, , , Mexico

2. SEVERIANO GUTIERREZ - International Genealogical Index / ME
Gender: Male Birth: El Rancho Del Tule

3. JOSE ANA GUTIERRES - International Genealogical Index / ME
Gender: Male Birth: El Tule

4. JOSE FRANCO. GUTIERRES GUTIERRES - International Genealogical Index / ME
Gender: Male Christening: 09 MAY 1814 San Juan De Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico

5. JOSE ANA GUTIERRES GUTIERRES - International Genealogical Index / ME
Gender: Male Christening: 28 JUL 1815 San Juan De Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico

6. JOSE SEBERIANO GUTIERRES GUTIERRES - International Genealogical Index / ME
Gender: Male Christening: 24 FEB 1817 San Juan De Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico

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Cheque:

La base de datos de los Mormones en http://www.familysearch.org tiene lo siguiente. Es la fecha del bautismo. Si quieres saber por seguro, toca que leas el rollo tu mismo. Dira cuantos dias tenia de nacido el niño y asi podras deducir la fecha de nacimiento. Tambien tendra los nombres de los abuelos y de los padrinos... informacion bastante importante.

BENIGNO GUTIERS. PADILLA
Christening: 16 FEB 1842
San Juan De Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico
Parents:
Father: JOSE ANA GUTIERS.
Mother: CANUTA PADILLA
Batch No.: C603397 1840 - 1843 Film No. 0220657

Puedes usar la base de datos de rollos de microfilmacion de este sitio para ir direcatamente a algun libro de registros de un pueblo en particular para una fecha en particular. Yo asi encontre este registro bastante facil.

Rolando,

I did some looking on FamilySearch, and this is what I have been able to
find.

Ahnentafel Chart for Andres A. Romo

First Generation
1. Andres A. Romo was born in Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico.

Second Generation
2. Claro Romo .Claro married Crisanta Aguilera.
3. Crisanta Aguilera .

Third Generation
4. Jose Bernabe ROMO DIAZ was born in Cienega. He was christened on 26
Jun 1811 in Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico. He married Maria de Jesus
Moran Aguilera on 5 Feb 1837 in Nuestra Senora De Los Dolores, Teocaltiche,
Jalisco, Mexico.
5. Maria de Jesus Moran Aguilera .

Fourth Generation
8. JOSE YGNO. ROMO MORAN was christened on 18 Jun 1788 in La
Encarnacion, Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico. He married Maria de Jesus
Dias on 25 Nov 1807 in La Encarnacion, Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico.

9. Maria de Jesus Dias .

Fifth Generation
16. JOSE MARIA ROMO DE VIVAR .JOSE married Maria MORAN on 30 Jan 1782 in
Nuestra Senora De Los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico.
17. Maria MORAN .
18. Felipe DIAZ .Felipe married MA. DE LOS DOLORES ROBALCABA.
19. MA. DE LOS DOLORES ROBALCABA .

Sixth Generation
32. Ygnacio ROMO .Ygnacio married Joaquina MORA.
33. Joaquina MORA .
34. Pablo MORAN .Pablo married Manuela GONZALES.
35. Manuela GONZALES .

Ahnentafel Chart for Maria Teresa Ante Medellin

First Generation
1. Maria Teresa Ante Medellin .

Second Generation
2. Antonio Ante Aguilar was christened on 17 Jun 1866 in Senor San
Jose, Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico. He married Maria D. Rodriguez.
3. Maria D. Rodriguez .

Third Generation
4. Juan Ante Cerbantes was christened on 29 May 1834 in La
Encarnacion, Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico. He married Maria Salome
Lechuga Aguilar on 10 Feb 1855 in Ledesma, Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico.
5. Maria Salome Lechuga Aguilar was christened on 4 Nov 1838 in
Nuestra Senora De Belen, Asientos, Aguascalientes, Mexico. She died in 1899
in Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico.
6. Roque Rodriguez .Roque married Maria Concepcion Nunez Garcia.
7. Maria Concepcion Nunez Garcia was christened on 23 Aug 1841 in
Senor San Jose, Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico.

Fourth Generation
8. Jose Maria Ante .Jose married MARIA DE LA MERCED CERBANTES on 6 Apr
1833 in La Encarnacion, Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico.
9. MARIA DE LA MERCED CERBANTES .
10. Francisco Aguilar .Francisco married Maria Elva Juana Lechuga.
12. Bernandino Rodriguez .Bernandino married Ynocencia BAES.
13. Ynocencia BAES .
14. Rafael Nunez was born in 1811 in Ajustos Visino De Los Amarillas, ,
, Mexico. He married MARIA PATRISIA GARSIA on 26 Apr 1834 in Senor San Jose,
Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico.
15. MARIA PATRISIA GARSIA .

Fifth Generation
28. RAMON NUNEZ was born in 1782 in San Pedro Piedra Gorda, Zacatecas,
Mexico. He married FRANCISCA SALAZAR in 1804 in San Pedro Piedra Gorda,
Zacatecas, Mexico.
29. FRANCISCA SALAZAR was born in 1783 in San Pedro Piedra Gorda,
Zacatecas, Mexico.

I hope that this helps.
Jonathan

I actually start searching the state of interest with all of the combinations of names that I can think of. As many of you know there are letters that are interchangeable like Z & S, V & B etc... I was looking for an Alvares on pilot. FAmilySearch.org and finally found the individual of interest spelled as Flvares so when you look in databases do not expect to find the names spelled correctly. As soon as I am finished with the state I search the whole country.

Here are a few more suggestions:

1. At the family history Library the films that you order are free and normally arrive the day after you order them around two in the afternoon. They only let you order five and sometimes six or seven per day. I have a friend who sometimes uses other peoples name to order extra films, (I am not condoning nor recommending this). As others have mentioned once the films are at the library they stay at the library indefinitely.

2. Check the Family History Library Catalog to verify what is there and what needs to be ordered. If the Film says FHL then it is already at the library. However if the film that you need says VAULT, then you need to order it so that it will be waiting for you.

3. Not all of the books are out on the floor so if you find a particular book that you want to read that is not in the regular stacks you can go to the "access services window" (library attendant window) and ask for the book they will then retrieve the item for you, the same goes for films not found in the regular stacks.

4. Digital cameras- I personally use a digital camera at the film reader and take off the flash. I usually take three quick pictures and then continue my search. Since I started doing this I no longer go to the digital film scanner. I think the quality is just as good and saves me time. The only drawback to this method is that you need a steady hand, I sometimes use a stand. Another way that I use my camera is to copy the title page of a book and any relevant information that I find within. You do not have to come to the library to use your camera. In fact you can use it in the manner described at any film reader where you are permitted to capture images.

5. There is a small lunch room on the main floor. Make sure to keep yourself fed and hydrated, you can easily loose track of time.

6. The Library now offers one on one consultation with a Research consultant. So if you find that you need some advice take advantage of it, it's free. They also normally have consultants available weekdays from 8am to 4pm and some Saturdays and evenings. Furthermore, other than the consultants they have many volunteers who speak Spanish and read the records.

Goo luck!

Can someone please translate the comments into Spanish they will help anyone traveling to SLC.

That is great to hear that there appears to be a Nuestros Ranchos impromptu reunion in the making. I must say my first trip to Salt Lake was such a great experience thanks to Mickey, Josie, Kitty, Rich and all of the other Ranchos members that I met there.

Some recommendations for your trip:

1. Have a research plan... it is very easy to spend entire days going from film to film and not focusing or achieving much in terms of gathering new information. I have done two types of trips... one where where I had very specific records I wanted to look up so I compiled a list of films, names, etc. and another where I had two films I wanted to read from beginning to end (and scan as much as possible).

2. Make sure that the Library has the films that you will need. Many films are still sitting in the Vault and have to be ordered to the library which can take up to a week. If you notify the Library of the dates that you will be there and what films you will need from the vault, they will preorder them for you so they are available when you visit.

3. Take a USB thumb drive or a pile of blank CDs. Scanning records is by far better than printing them but you have to have somewhere to save the records. The library sells CDs but it is more convenient to use a USB thumbdrive.

4. Book scanner time ahead of time. They usually book up pretty early in the day so you can book time early in the day (perhaps even on different floors), tag the records you want to scan as you go (I slip a small piece of paper in the microfilm as I wind it) and then go back and do all of your scanning in one or two sessions.

5. Take food and water with you to the Library. While you can't eat in the Library, it is nice to be able to walk out and have a snack. There is a decent restaurant right next door at the Salt Lake Plaza Hotel, but sometimes you don't want to sit down for a full meal.

Everybody who goes to Salt Lake, please let the rest of us know how it goes. Post photos if you get a chance. Good luck with your research.

Raymond, what other information do you have on your ancestor, family members time frame etc....

Felix:

El apellido nunca cambio. Si entiendo bien tu mensaje dices que tu bisabuelo se llamaba José Felix Muñoz, pero que en su acta de bautismo? nacimiento? aparece con el apellido Macias.

En mi experiencia, las actas de bautismo muchas veces no llevan apellido, solamente el nombre del niño y de los padres. Los voluntarios que extraen la información asumen (por razones culturales) que el niño lleva el apellido del padre. Pero antes de las reformas borbonicas a principios de los 1800s no había sistema estructurado de apellidos en el mundo hispanoparlante. La gente llevaba el apellido del padre, de la madre o a veces hasta el de abuelos o vecinos.

La abuela de tu bisabuelo se apellidaba Muñoz. Es probable que Miguel Macias se llamara Miguel Muñoz y el padre por pereza o confusión le haya puesto Macias en la acta. Así que el nombre de tu bisabuelo siempre fue Muñoz pero por confusión o pereza hay actas donde los curas (o más bien los escribanos de la iglesia o hasta los voluntarios que transcribieron las actas a las bases de datos de los mormones) le ponían Macias.

Igual, hay muchísima gente que usaba varios apellidos y cambiaba de uno a otro dependiendo en la etapa de su vida o dependiendo lo que les covenía a ellos o a los curas que hacian las actas. Yo he visto la misma persona con tres apellidos... Antonio de la O, Antonio Covarrubias y Antonio Talamantes... todos la misma persona... uno el apellido de la madre, el otro el de la abuela materna y el otro del padre.

I do not know who the Ygnacio Sánchez de Mendoza who is having children in Jalostotitlán is, but it looks like he might be a brother of Andrea's. This would need to be verified.

Name: Maria Antonia Sanches De La Bas
Gender: Female
Christening date: 03 May 1729
Christening place: NUESTRA SENORA DE LA ASUNCION, JALOSTOTITLAN, JALISCO, MEXICO
Residence: Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico
Father name: Ygnacio Sanches De Mendosa
Father birth place:
Age of father:
Mother name: Maria Masemiliana De La Bas
Mother birth place:
Mother age:
Batch number: C60320-3
Date range: 1721 - 1735
Record group: Mexico-VR
Film number: 279255
Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900

I also found a child of Andreas but you will have to verify the information on the film, you might already have this information. Wow almost nine months to the day! You might want to look up the batch number on FamilySearch.org, IGI to see other individuals from that town that were christened during the Date Range of 1721 -1735

Name: Joseph Antonio De Salgado Sanches
Gender: Male
Christening date: 10 May 1725
Christening place: NUESTRA SENORA DE LA ASUNCION, JALOSTOTITLAN, JALISCO, MEXICO
Residence: Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico
Father name: Juan De Salgado Y Villasenor
Mother name: Andrea Sanches De Mendosa
Batch number: C60320-3
Date range: 1721 - 1735
Record group: Mexico-VR
Film number: 279255
Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900

I can recommend a great place for dinner- One World Cafe. Delicious, abundant, organic, and affordable -you pay what you can. See their website.

alicia
how long are you considering the trip?

--- On Sun, 4/26/09, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

From: Alicia Carrillo
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Salt Lake City research trip anyone??
To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sunday, April 26, 2009, 2:46 PM

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Members:

I'm planning a trip to SLC in June or July, I can be flexible on the date and am looking for a female travel partner to SLC.

If any nuestros ranchos ladies are interested, please let me know.

Of course any gentlemen can go too, I'm just looking for a roommate and travel buddy but if a group of people go, male or female and meet up there, that would also be great.

If interested, you can contact me off-line at alliecar@pacbell.net.

Regards,
Alicia, San Jose, Calif

Jaime I have a Andres Thadeo De Puga married to Maria Estefania Calvillo,
this Andres is my husband ggggggrandfather. Some of the childrens church
records are listed as "mulatos libres", which I belive the parents where
also mulatos. I am trying to find more information on Andres Thadeo De Puga
and Maria Estefania Calvillo, his dauther Maria Antonia De Puga was born in
Ojocaliente, Zacatecas and the last 3 children are born in Aguascalientes.
Let me know where I can find more information on the Puga Family.
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 9:49 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado Gabai

> Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado Gabai married on May 17 1693 in
> Aguascalientes. Parents of the groom are not listed. Sebastiana is
> daughter of Joseph Delgado and Francisca Gabai. Does any one has
> additional information, specifically what is the relationship of Francisca
> to Ana Francisca Gabay, wife of Lope Ruiz de Esparza?
>
> Jaime Alvarado

Jaime

I found the matrimonial investigation for Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado.

My rather poor Spanish makes it hard to read, but I believe it says in part:

"Andres de Puga, Espanol natural de la Cuidad de Guadalaxa y vezino de esta Villa mas tiempo de ocho anos hijo natural de Antonio Cosin presco ..."

I am pretty sure it says "hijo natural de Antonio" and not "hijo natural de Antonia". I believe the last name is "Cosin" but this does not sound Spanish to me.

It continues

"con Sebastiana Delgado espanola natural y vezino desta Jurisdicion hija lexitima de Joseph Delgado difunto y de Franca Gabay y para que ..."

The others providing statements are Nicolas de Puga, Pedro (I believe, this written on the interior margin of the page so not all the letters are readable) Romo, and Diego Delgado,

The marriage record for Joseph Delgado and Francsica Gabai states ...

"Joseph Delgado nl y vecina de Pinos hijo de Diego Delgado y Jua Dias ... con Franca Gabadi nl de [I'm not sure of the next word] hija legitima de Luis de Tiscareno y Lorenza Ruis de Esparsa ... padrinos de velacion Lope Ruis de Esparza y Franca Gabadi sus abuelos y testigos ... Diego Delgado Dominga de ... y Gaspar de Palos ..."

If I read these documents correctly, this answers the question.

All of these are available at the Family Search Pilot website.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Hi Jaime, its Daniel, lets see if I can explain w/o confusing you. I have all sources if needed,

Sebastiana Delgado de Gabay casó Andrés de Puga, hija de José Delgado y Francisca (II) Navarro de Gabay utilizó el mismo apellido de su abuela. Francisca Navarro de Gabay es hija de Luís Tiscareño de Molina y Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza, quien es hija de don Lope (II) Ruiz de Esparza y Ana Francisca (I) Navarro de Gabay. Im sure youre aware about Lorenza de Esparza being used as descendants names. There's a lots of Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza, etc. So to answer your question Sebastiana would be Lope's great grandaughter, he had MANY grandchildren as you may know! I hope this helps, I think I have some stuff on Andrés but need to check! -Daniel

Joseph,

I just got off the line with the MSN specialist and they said I should start receiving your e-mails within the next 24 hours, and if not, that he would get his research team to work with Dreamhost on the problem.

Thanks,
Emilie

Joseph,

I just saw your message, and I had been on the line with a Resolution specialist at MSN that said they were not blocking Nuestros Ranchos from letting your e-mails come through. He also ran me through tests to show it was not my computer blocking Nuestros Ranchos either.

I am on the line with them again to tell them that you were told that Dreamhost, your new ISP, is being blocked by MSN Live.

I'll let you know what they say.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

Efrain,

I'm interested in what you have on Francisco Gutierrez Rubio (1550 - ?), son
of Diego Gonzales de Hermosillo and Ana Gonzales Florida ....

I had thought that Francisco Gutierrez Rubio was married to Ana Gonzales
Florida - and that he was the son of Diego Gonzales de Hermosillo and Maria
Rubio ..... This was based solely on family search batch #F868025 Sheet:
047

I haven't had a chance to verify this information and so I'm curious as to
what you have and what the source is.

-Angelina-

Hello everyone,

I completely agree with Corrine. Our research is never completely done and if we wait to verify every single lead before we post our information on this site then where would we be? I personally prefer to see this work in progress which could perhaps connect me to someone that is persuing the same line, than wait indefintely for a more complete works. Yes, there will be errors, but it is also an opportunity to fix those errors and refine our work.

-Angelina-

hello Corrine,

I recently found out that my great grand mother was not Gonzalez-Guerra but
González Guerra, their grand parents were Epifanio Gonzales and Maria
Antonia Guerra, Epifanio came from Lagos (as it says in the marriage record
of their son Salvador González Guerra nov 9th, 1870), that´s all information
I got in this branch.

I don´t remember exactly what microfilm do you have, but I saw that many
people on this site have ancesters from Lagos de Moreno, I thought perhaps
some one can help me please!.

Thanks in advance.

Patty Haro

Acabo de enterarme que mi bisabuela no era González-Guerra sino González
Guerra, sus abuelos eran Epifanio Gonzales y Maria Antonia Guerra,
Epifanio venia de Lagos (como dice en la partida matrimonial de su hijo
Salvador González Guerra del 9 de noviembre de 1870), esa es toda la
información que tengo de esta rama.

No recuerdo que microfilm tienes, pero he visto que muchas personas tienen
ancestros originarios de Lagos de Moreno Jalisco, a lo mejor si tu no tienes
información sobre el, alguien mas pueda ayudarme por favor, porque ahora si
estoy atorada en esta rama.

Muchas Gracias de antemano.

Patty Haro

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Corrine Ardoin wrote:

> About Citing Sources and Areas where they are not cited, or turn out to be
> incorrect:
>
> I understand what you are saying, in regards to finding, and hearing others
> say, about family history genealogies that turn out to be partially
> incorrect, but they insist they are correct, because someone said it was
> so. Or, the information cannot be taken off that site, even if it is
> wrong,
> or whatever. Also, finding these on Family Search, family trees with no
> sources cited, marriages and births posted on there in perpetuity that are
> not verified as to where they got that information. And, I know for myself
> certain info provided is completely incorrect, but have no way of
> contacting
> whoever posted it.
>
> Well, I know I have learned my own lessons about this, as I have taken up
> the baton from my "dearly departed father" to carry on with our family
> history research, to make it a firm habit, whether I don't feel like it or
> what, to keep track of where I found each item as I go along. And, I'm
> still learning. So, I know how hard this is, the aspect of being thorough,
> keeping detailed records, etc. when I am looking through many, many sources
> at any given time. There are times, too, when I was beginnning this, that
> I
> just didn't know how thorough I needed to be until I had to reorder a
> film or tear through the papers and books again for where the heck I found
> that little information about a town or something. And, recalling when I
> began, how I sent out to all my family my first family tree chart, that I
> soon learned was full of incorrect information I believed was true, because
> my mother told it to me! And, was I going back to tell everyone? No,
> because my chart is always changing. Learning that Pioquinta Gonzalez was
> not of royalty from Spain, but of humble birth in the Huichol region of
> Jalisco, her own mother an Indian. And, too, Benigno Cabral was not from
> Portugal, not a sea captain, but was born in Jalisco, also. That was a
> valuable lesson learned. Do the research! Family stories are nice, but
> researching it to prove them or disprove them is absolutely necessary.
> It's
> all part of the journey and makes our books and memoirs we write someday
> more colorful when we add them in as "stories I was told by Grandma."
>
> So, yes, there are cheaters and crooks out there, even in this field, but I
> follow a few simple rules: don't take it as fact unless there is proof to
> back it up, do your own research, thoroughly, and cite your sources. But
> understand this, is it ever perfect? Or, is there room for human error,
> beginners just learning, and well-meaning but unprofessional family history
> buffs?
>
> This brings me to another point in regards to our posted genealogies on
> this
> site, the ones we are asked to do to be a member in this group. Citing our
> sources is not a requirement. These charts, lists, and family trees, some
> presented in a very professional manner, I believed are merely to let
> others
> in the group know what we have done so far and what our area of research
> is. Also, they are to hopefully connect us with others who are researching
> the same family. Does this make our information provided invalid, because
> we do not cite our sources, and, even return to them to update them, change
> them where we have found them to be incorrect or incomplete? Or, is
> it presumably understood that these are, like I said, merely guides to our
> area of research and that no one is planning on gleaning them for dates and
> names to add to their own family trees?
>
> I, for one, agree that it is imperative to keep track of and record our
> sources as we go along. I can truly appreciate thoroughly researched gold
> mines of family history information. But, I just wanted to point out that,
> *sometimes*, it is understood that what is there may have never been
> intended to be used as absolute fact, just a guide.
>
> And, hey, I just wanted to put my two cents worth in. Or, is it more like
> a
> quarter nowadays?
>
> Corrine Ardoin
> Still trucking here in Santa Maria, California reading the same microfilm
> for five months now and I'm still not done. Anyone have Gonzalez in their
> family tree?

Hi Corrine:

I am "Gonzalez" which evolved from "Gonzalez de Hermosillo" from the
Jalostotitlán, Jalisco area. You can contact me directly at
1gnzlz@verizon.net

Thank you.

John Gonzalez.
Wildomar, CA.

> Corrine Ardoin
> Still trucking here in Santa Maria, California reading the same microfilm
> for five months now and I'm still not done. Anyone have Gonzalez in their
> family tree?
>

In the records I am presently studying - Matrimonios of San José de
Gracia 1769-1783 - even the Parish name is written "Yglesia Parrochial
de el Pueblo de el Señor San Joseph de Gracia". Notice also the
spelling of Parroquial as Parrochial and the avoidance of the
contraction del. On some occasions Joseph is written in a slightly
truncated form, so that it looks like Joset or Josep. Josepha and
Phelipe also appear frequently.

--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com

George:

What year are the records you are talking about where people were signing Joseph while the priests were writing Jose?

Perhaps this was a sign of the priests being more "with the times" in adopting the orthographic reforms of the 1800s while the common people stuck to tradition. I imagine many people who were illiterate were taught to write their names in abbreviation for simplicity and the abbreviations went unchanged even when the full name spelling had undergone reform.

Just a teaser about a great posting that was made to the albums section by Cristina Pedroza with an excerpt from an academic source on the caste system in Mexico and including photos of the various castes. I have taken the libery to use one of them as the third image for our rotating banner images on the site.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/castas

The other one I recently added is a photo of my great-great-grandfather at the wedding of his youngest son in 1902 with the Totatiche landscape in the background. I am still open to receiving any more submissions.

This is hilarious! Thanks for sharing!!!

Lester Alvarado wrote: Hi there Joseph,

I know this is a little late on the subject but I thought some of the members might like this :

DE ESPANOL CON INDIA = MESTIZO DE CALPAMULATO CON CAMBUJO =TENTE EN EL AIRE
DE MISTIZO CON INDIA = COYOTE DE TENTE EN EL AIRE CON MULATA = NO TE INTIENDO
DE MISTIZO CON ESPANOLA = CASTIZO DE NO TE INTIENDO CON INDIA =TORNATRAS
DE CASTIZO CON ESPANOL = ESPANOL DE ALBARAZADO CON COYOTE = BARCINO
DE ESPANOLOA CON NEGRO = MULATO DE BARCINO CON MULATA =COYOTE
DE MULATO CON INDIA = LOBO DE COYOTE CON INDIO =CHAMIZO
DE ESPANOL CON MULATA = MORISCO DE CHAMIZO CON MESTIZA = COYOTE MESITZO
DE ESPANOL CON MORISCA = ALBINO O CHINO DE COYOTE MESTIZO Y MULATA = AHI TE ESTAS
DE ESPANOL CON ALBINO O CHINO = TORNA ATRAS
DE INDIO O MULATO CON TORNA ATRAS = LOBO
DE LOBO CON CHINA = JIBARO
DE CAMBUJO O JIBARA CON MULATA = ALBARAZADO
DE ALBARAZADO CON NEGRA = CAMBUJO
DE CAMBUJO CON INDIA = ZAMBAIGO
DE ZAMBAIGO CON LOBOA = CALPAMULATO

Welester

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This is such a common problem with internet genealogy. It seems that many people do not understand citing sources, and do not know what are valid references. I have occassionally tried to contact some people that have posted genealogies, and I have gotten very mixed responses. These have varied from none, to rather indignant replies, like "I know it's correct because my grandmother told me."

Family tradition is fine; sometimes it has basis in fact, sometimes not. If something is an unverified tradition, then so state! Perhaps someone will have the data that substantiates it.

Some data is open to interpretation: look at it critically. If the data is only suggestive of a connection, then state it.

I try to verify information against real sources whenever possible.

The Petronila de Moctezuma/Martin Navarro situation is a case in point. You see a lot of posted genealogies with them, but the evidence is lacking. I have looked at several histories, including "Montezuma's Children" by Chipman, They are not mentioned at all. Why?

In summary: I would make a note of the connection, continue to do the research; and someday may be able to make the connection.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Daniel and anyone else not receiving emails...

Can you please email Joseph and me at moderator [at] nuestrosranchos.org the details of when you stopped receiving messages and whether you changed anything in your Nuestros Ranchos account?

The first thing you should do if you have this problem is go into your spam folder and see if the mail is ending up there. If so, you will needs to add nuestrosranchos.org as a safe domain with your email provider so that the emails from the list bypass the spam filter.

PS In general you should address technical problems to the moderator email address rather than send them to the whole group via the mailing list.