estos achivos los tengo en pdf, menos los Dicionarios que no los puedo combertir a pdf, PEROMM SERIAN PARA EL FORO NO PARA MANDAR INDIVIDUALMENTE POR CORREO
Salvador,
Si quieres convertir los cuatro Diccionarios Novohispanos de Thomas
Hillerkuss de MS WORD a PDF, con mucho gusto puedo ayudarte. Si te animas
envíamelos a la misma dirección electrónica que te di anteriormente.
Bill Figueroa
Arturo Ramos y Bil Figueroa, pudieron convertir el bak de Bernanrdino
fernandes de velasco, del siglo 14
--
Kutsaraipa: Lugar Mítico donde se Reunieron los Antepasados
http://jerez-zacatecas.ga
Salvador,
Recibí el archivo pipol.bak el cual importé a PAF 5.2 sin dificultad. Aún
no he tenido tiempo de analizarlo, pero aparentemente las vocales con acento
á, é, í, ó, ú y algunas consonantes que no se usan en inglés, como la ñ, las
cambió PAF a una combinación de dos letras. Voy a tratar de corregir esto
antes de importar el archivo a FamilyTree Maker, que es el programa que uso
para la genealogía. Muchísimas gracias. Espero poder corresponderte en un
futuro cercano.
Saludos,
Bill Figueroa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerez Zacatecas"
To:
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] bak
Arturo Ramos y Bill Figueroa, pudieron convertir el bak de Bernanrdino
fernandes de velasco, del siglo 14
que ramos la pagina esta fallando
--
Kutsaraipa: Lugar Mítico donde se Reunieron los Antepasados
http://jerez-zacatecas.galeon.com
http://club.telepolis.com/letorre/
http://jerezzacatecas-sa
*
Cayetano de La Vega* nació en Rincón de Romos, Auguascalientes, Mexico se
casó con *-Luisa Antonia Ramirez*.
Estimados amigos quiero saber si se esta planeando una reonión de Historia y Genealogía en Los Altos como la hubo en Valle de Guadalupe en el 2008, me gustaría poder cooperar de cualquier forma y proponer sea en San Miguel el Alto y con una mayor duración y actividad académica.
Estimados Rodolfo y Ricardo
Me interesa mucho el poder asistir a esta reunion, para mi seria la primera vez, y me dara mucho gusto poder conocerlos personalmente. Ya que a la mayoria del grupo a traves de sus valiosas aportaciones y comentarios poco a poco vamos conociendolos.
Yo me encuentro en San Luis Potosi, a tres horas de distancia en auto, ya sea de Tepa o de San Miguel el Alto, por lo que donde decidan la mayoria me parece bien, y ademas si requieren alguna ayuda cuenten conmigo.
De fecha me parece bien las tres primeras semanas de Julio.
saludos
Juan Cristobal Villalobos Lomelin
I am interested in attending the Reunion this year, and would be great if I could partner with any NR members who will be traveling from California. I live in Souther Cali, and could meet up on land at any Mexican airport, or at LAX if I am so lucky to have local members...
As far as preferred date--I agree with Ricci, July/August would work better for us up here, as it is vacation season.
-Claudia
Hola a todos,si la reunion se hace en San Miguel El Alto, yo podr'ia ayudarles en cuanto informaci'on , de hoteles etc cuenten conmigo, conozco los dueños de los Hoteles.
,uno se llama el Meson de los cristeros y esta' a una cuadra sel centro, es de cuatro estrellas. El otro es Real Capestre, est'a a un kil'ometro del pueblo y es tambien cuatro estrellas. quisa' me estoy adelantando pero si somos un grupo grande es posible que el presidente municipal nos preste un lugar para las reuniones, no les asuguro nada pero es posible.
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El sáb 28-feb-09, Claudia_Reynoso escribió:
De:: Claudia_Reynoso
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion 2009 - travel partners from California???
A: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: sábado, 28 febrero, 2009, 12:13 pm
I am interested in attending the Reunion this year, and would be great if I
could partner with any NR members who will be traveling from California. I live
in Souther Cali, and could meet up on land at any Mexican airport, or at LAX if
I am so lucky to have local members...
As far as preferred date--I agree with Ricci, July/August would work better for
us up here, as it is vacation season.
-Claudia
Last year , the same day August 2, 2008 in Guadalajara there was the first reunion known as the Gutierrada. The families of the Jose Sotero Gutierrez and Maria de Jesus Romo from el Rancho de la Escondida near Jalostotitlan had a successful reunion. By coincidence I believe they are planning their second reunion this year also the same day August 2, 2009 .
----- Original Message -----
From: Claudia_Reynoso
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:13 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion 2009 - travel partners from California???
I am interested in attending the Reunion this year, and would be great if I could partner with any NR members who will be traveling from California. I live in Souther Cali, and could meet up on land at any Mexican airport, or at LAX if I am so lucky to have local members...
As far as preferred date--I agree with Ricci, July/August would work better for us up here, as it is vacation season.
-Claudia
It would be great for me if they were close together but not on the same day so that i may meet my cousins from both groups. My great great grandmother francisca Gutierrez romo is a first cousin of Sotero Gutierrez. Francisca and her husband Eligio romo jimenez were 2nd cousins to each other and both of them closely related to sotero gutierrez and his wife.
from this romo family is my great aunt that just a few years ago recalled how when she was very young she threw fruit from from a tree at her uncle Santo toribio romo as he was walking on the sidewalk in front of her house. At first he was just dodging the fruit because he did not know where it was coming from. When he looked up and finally figured out who was throwing the fruit and from where he moved out of reach and admonished her. He warned her that he was going to tell her father( who was his cousin).
She was very old when she told this story to my mom when she was visiting her.
________________________________
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Miggy GUTIERREZ
Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 11:23 AM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
Last year , the same day August 2, 2008 in Guadalajara there was the first reunion known as the Gutierrada. The families of the Jose Sotero Gutierrez and Maria de Jesus Romo from el Rancho de la Escondida near Jalostotitlan had a successful reunion. By coincidence I believe they are planning their second reunion this year also the same day August 2, 2009 .
----- Original Message -----
From: Claudia_Reynoso
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:13 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion 2009 - travel partners from California???
I am interested in attending the Reunion this year, and would be great if I could partner with any NR members who will be traveling from California. I live in Souther Cali, and could meet up on land at any Mexican airport, or at LAX if I am so lucky to have local members...
As far as preferred date--I agree with Ricci, July/August would work better for us up here, as it is vacation season.
-Claudia
Hola todos (as)
Busco archivos parroquiales o registros civiles de Mexticacan Jal. de 1925 a 1935 alguien tiene o sabe donde encontrarlos, estoy en Monterrey y no tengo viaje a mexticacan hasta diciembre, gracias de antemano.
Saludos cordiales
Antonio Santillan
> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:52:54 -0800
> From: rricci@lausd.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
>
>
> It would be great for me if they were close together but not on the same day so that i may meet my cousins from both groups. My great great grandmother francisca Gutierrez romo is a first cousin of Sotero Gutierrez. Francisca and her husband Eligio romo jimenez were 2nd cousins to each other and both of them closely related to sotero gutierrez and his wife.
> from this romo family is my great aunt that just a few years ago recalled how when she was very young she threw fruit from from a tree at her uncle Santo toribio romo as he was walking on the sidewalk in front of her house. At first he was just dodging the fruit because he did not know where it was coming from. When he looked up and finally figured out who was throwing the fruit and from where he moved out of reach and admonished her. He warned her that he was going to tell her father( who was his cousin).
> She was very old when she told this story to my mom when she was visiting her.
> ________________________________
>
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Miggy GUTIERREZ
> Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 11:23 AM
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
>
>
>
> Last year , the same day August 2, 2008 in Guadalajara there was the first reunion known as the Gutierrada. The families of the Jose Sotero Gutierrez and Maria de Jesus Romo from el Rancho de la Escondida near Jalostotitlan had a successful reunion. By coincidence I believe they are planning their second reunion this year also the same day August 2, 2009 .
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Claudia_Reynoso
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:13 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion 2009 - travel partners from California???
>
>
>
> I am interested in attending the Reunion this year, and would be great if I could partner with any NR members who will be traveling from California. I live in Souther Cali, and could meet up on land at any Mexican airport, or at LAX if I am so lucky to have local members...
>
> As far as preferred date--I agree with Ricci, July/August would work better for us up here, as it is vacation season.
> -Claudia
>
Hola a todos, si la reunion, se hace en San Miguel El alto , cuenten conmigo en lo que les pueda ayudar, informaci'on de hoteles, trasportaci'on etc , alguna sugerecia¿
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El sáb 28-feb-09, Ricci, Richard escribió:
De:: Ricci, Richard
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: sábado, 28 febrero, 2009, 3:52 pm
It would be great for me if they were close together but not on the same day so
that i may meet my cousins from both groups. My great great grandmother
francisca Gutierrez romo is a first cousin of Sotero Gutierrez. Francisca and
her husband Eligio romo jimenez were 2nd cousins to each other and both of them
closely related to sotero gutierrez and his wife.
from this romo family is my great aunt that just a few years ago recalled how
when she was very young she threw fruit from from a tree at her uncle Santo
toribio romo as he was walking on the sidewalk in front of her house. At first
he was just dodging the fruit because he did not know where it was coming from.
When he looked up and finally figured out who was throwing the fruit and from
where he moved out of reach and admonished her. He warned her that he was going
to tell her father( who was his cousin).
She was very old when she told this story to my mom when she was visiting her.
________________________________
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Miggy GUTIERREZ
Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 11:23 AM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
Last year , the same day August 2, 2008 in Guadalajara there was the first
reunion known as the Gutierrada. The families of the Jose Sotero Gutierrez and
Maria de Jesus Romo from el Rancho de la Escondida near Jalostotitlan had a
successful reunion. By coincidence I believe they are planning their second
reunion this year also the same day August 2, 2009 .
----- Original Message -----
From: Claudia_Reynoso
To:
general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:13 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion 2009 - travel partners from California???
I am interested in attending the Reunion this year, and would be great if I
could partner with any NR members who will be traveling from California. I live
in Souther Cali, and could meet up on land at any Mexican airport, or at LAX if
I am so lucky to have local members...
As far as preferred date--I agree with Ricci, July/August would work better
for us up here, as it is vacation season.
-Claudia
Mi nombre es JOsé María Vallejo Mercado, y ahorita que abri el correo se me hizo familiar el nombre de Eligio Romo Jiménez, lo anterior debido a que mi tatarabuela se llamaba Josefa Romo JIménez, y tengo conociemiento que tenia entre otros hermanos a Dorotea que casó con Jacinto Hurtado; tambien Teresa que casó con Doroteo Alvarez; y a Eligio casado con Francisca Gutiérrez ( desconozco el apelolido materno y quienes fueron sus padres).
Josefa casó con mi tatarabuelo Agustin Vallejo Tostado, hijo de JOaquin Vallejo y de Juana Tostado.
Joséfa era hija de Pablo Romo y Manuela JIménez.
Mi pregunta es si se trata de Eligio era hijo de Pablo Romo y Manuela JIménez, o se trata de otro Eligio. y si sabes de quienes eran sus padres.
Si tienes los datos te agradeceria mucho si me los enviares a este correo, Vivo en Jalostotitlán, Jal.
Otro dato que te puedo ofrecer es que Eligio nació en el rancho "Los Portales, Municipio de Jalostotitlán, Jal.
> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:53:53 -0800
> From: rubenazo_casillas@yahoo.com.mx
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
>
> Hola a todos, si la reunion, se hace en San Miguel El alto , cuenten conmigo en lo que les pueda ayudar, informaci'on de hoteles, trasportaci'on etc , alguna sugerecia¿
>
> Ruben Casillas M.
>
> --- El sáb 28-feb-09, Ricci, Richard escribió:
>
> De:: Ricci, Richard
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
> A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Fecha: sábado, 28 febrero, 2009, 3:52 pm
>
>
> It would be great for me if they were close together but not on the same day so
> that i may meet my cousins from both groups. My great great grandmother
> francisca Gutierrez romo is a first cousin of Sotero Gutierrez. Francisca and
> her husband Eligio romo jimenez were 2nd cousins to each other and both of them
> closely related to sotero gutierrez and his wife.
> from this romo family is my great aunt that just a few years ago recalled how
> when she was very young she threw fruit from from a tree at her uncle Santo
> toribio romo as he was walking on the sidewalk in front of her house. At first
> he was just dodging the fruit because he did not know where it was coming from.
> When he looked up and finally figured out who was throwing the fruit and from
> where he moved out of reach and admonished her. He warned her that he was going
> to tell her father( who was his cousin).
> She was very old when she told this story to my mom when she was visiting her.
> ________________________________
>
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Miggy GUTIERREZ
> Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 11:23 AM
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
>
>
>
> Last year , the same day August 2, 2008 in Guadalajara there was the first
> reunion known as the Gutierrada. The families of the Jose Sotero Gutierrez and
> Maria de Jesus Romo from el Rancho de la Escondida near Jalostotitlan had a
> successful reunion. By coincidence I believe they are planning their second
> reunion this year also the same day August 2, 2009 .
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Claudia_Reynoso
> To:
> general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:13 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion 2009 - travel partners from California???
>
>
>
> I am interested in attending the Reunion this year, and would be great if I
> could partner with any NR members who will be traveling from California. I live
> in Souther Cali, and could meet up on land at any Mexican airport, or at LAX if
> I am so lucky to have local members...
>
> As far as preferred date--I agree with Ricci, July/August would work better
> for us up here, as it is vacation season.
> -Claudia
>
es el mismo, mi bisabuelo Eligio Romo Jimenez fue casado con Francisca Gutierrez Gonzalez. Eligio fue padre de emeterio romo Gutierrez quien se caso Serapia Franco Barba. mi abuelo Hermenegildo Romo Franco y el doctor Rito Romo Franco son hijos de emeterio y rito.
yo tengo a Maria josefa Romo Jimenez, hermana de mi tatarabuelo nascida en 1848 en los Portales y casada con agustin Vallejo el 17/de enero/ 1867.
yo tengo los hijos que dices pero mas para un total de ocho
tambien tengo mucho de tu arbol ya hecho
________________________________
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of jose maria vallejo mercado
Sent: Tue 3/3/2009 5:15 PM
To: consulta genealogica
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Reunions 2009 -
Mi nombre es JOsé María Vallejo Mercado, y ahorita que abri el correo se me hizo familiar el nombre de Eligio Romo Jiménez, lo anterior debido a que mi tatarabuela se llamaba Josefa Romo JIménez, y tengo conociemiento que tenia entre otros hermanos a Dorotea que casó con Jacinto Hurtado; tambien Teresa que casó con Doroteo Alvarez; y a Eligio casado con Francisca Gutiérrez ( desconozco el apelolido materno y quienes fueron sus padres).
Josefa casó con mi tatarabuelo Agustin Vallejo Tostado, hijo de JOaquin Vallejo y de Juana Tostado.
Joséfa era hija de Pablo Romo y Manuela JIménez.
Mi pregunta es si se trata de Eligio era hijo de Pablo Romo y Manuela JIménez, o se trata de otro Eligio. y si sabes de quienes eran sus padres.
Si tienes los datos te agradeceria mucho si me los enviares a este correo, Vivo en Jalostotitlán, Jal.
Otro dato que te puedo ofrecer es que Eligio nació en el rancho "Los Portales, Municipio de Jalostotitlán, Jal.
> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:53:53 -0800
> From: rubenazo_casillas@yahoo.com.mx
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
>
> Hola a todos, si la reunion, se hace en San Miguel El alto , cuenten conmigo en lo que les pueda ayudar, informaci'on de hoteles, trasportaci'on etc , alguna sugerecia¿
>
> Ruben Casillas M.
>
> --- El sáb 28-feb-09, Ricci, Richard escribió:
>
> De:: Ricci, Richard
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
> A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Fecha: sábado, 28 febrero, 2009, 3:52 pm
>
>
> It would be great for me if they were close together but not on the same day so
> that i may meet my cousins from both groups. My great great grandmother
> francisca Gutierrez romo is a first cousin of Sotero Gutierrez. Francisca and
> her husband Eligio romo jimenez were 2nd cousins to each other and both of them
> closely related to sotero gutierrez and his wife.
> from this romo family is my great aunt that just a few years ago recalled how
> when she was very young she threw fruit from from a tree at her uncle Santo
> toribio romo as he was walking on the sidewalk in front of her house. At first
> he was just dodging the fruit because he did not know where it was coming from.
> When he looked up and finally figured out who was throwing the fruit and from
> where he moved out of reach and admonished her. He warned her that he was going
> to tell her father( who was his cousin).
> She was very old when she told this story to my mom when she was visiting her.
> ________________________________
>
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Miggy GUTIERREZ
> Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 11:23 AM
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
>
>
>
> Last year , the same day August 2, 2008 in Guadalajara there was the first
> reunion known as the Gutierrada. The families of the Jose Sotero Gutierrez and
> Maria de Jesus Romo from el Rancho de la Escondida near Jalostotitlan had a
> successful reunion. By coincidence I believe they are planning their second
> reunion this year also the same day August 2, 2009 .
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Claudia_Reynoso
> To:
> general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:13 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion 2009 - travel partners from California???
>
>
>
> I am interested in attending the Reunion this year, and would be great if I
> could partner with any NR members who will be traveling from California. I live
> in Souther Cali, and could meet up on land at any Mexican airport, or at LAX if
> I am so lucky to have local members...
>
> As far as preferred date--I agree with Ricci, July/August would work better
> for us up here, as it is vacation season.
> -Claudia
>
perdona el error
recibi una llamada por telefono en medio de la respuesta y escribi algo mal
Mi abuelo hermengildo romo franco y rito son es hijos de emeterio romo gutierrez y serapia franco barba
yo he hecho mucho del arbol de jose jesus gutierrez vallejo hijo de Francico gutierrez y maria Eulogia Valleo
maria eulogia es hija de Mauricio Vallejo y celsa Cornejo
mauricio vallejo es hijo leonardo vallejo
leonardo vallejo es hijo de Jose Juasquin M Vallejo Ochoa y Juana Maria Tostado de la torre
Anastacio vallejo y maria rafael ochoa son los padres de Jose Juaquin Vallejo
Tengo muchas de las otras ramas, pero todavia no he buscado los padres y abuelos de anastacio vallejo y maria rafael ochoa
Tengo mucho vallejo en mi familia y ya lo estoy juntando con los californios hijos del sargento hermano de mi tatara abuel
________________________________
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Tue 3/3/2009 6:48 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Reunions 2009 -
es el mismo, mi bisabuelo Eligio Romo Jimenez fue casado con Francisca Gutierrez Gonzalez. Eligio fue padre de emeterio romo Gutierrez quien se caso Serapia Franco Barba. mi abuelo Hermenegildo Romo Franco y el doctor Rito Romo Franco son hijos de emeterio y rito.
yo tengo a Maria josefa Romo Jimenez, hermana de mi tatarabuelo nascida en 1848 en los Portales y casada con agustin Vallejo el 17/de enero/ 1867.
yo tengo los hijos que dices pero mas para un total de ocho
tambien tengo mucho de tu arbol ya hecho
________________________________
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of jose maria vallejo mercado
Sent: Tue 3/3/2009 5:15 PM
To: consulta genealogica
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Reunions 2009 -
Mi nombre es JOsé María Vallejo Mercado, y ahorita que abri el correo se me hizo familiar el nombre de Eligio Romo Jiménez, lo anterior debido a que mi tatarabuela se llamaba Josefa Romo JIménez, y tengo conociemiento que tenia entre otros hermanos a Dorotea que casó con Jacinto Hurtado; tambien Teresa que casó con Doroteo Alvarez; y a Eligio casado con Francisca Gutiérrez ( desconozco el apelolido materno y quienes fueron sus padres).
Josefa casó con mi tatarabuelo Agustin Vallejo Tostado, hijo de JOaquin Vallejo y de Juana Tostado.
Joséfa era hija de Pablo Romo y Manuela JIménez.
Mi pregunta es si se trata de Eligio era hijo de Pablo Romo y Manuela JIménez, o se trata de otro Eligio. y si sabes de quienes eran sus padres.
Si tienes los datos te agradeceria mucho si me los enviares a este correo, Vivo en Jalostotitlán, Jal.
Otro dato que te puedo ofrecer es que Eligio nació en el rancho "Los Portales, Municipio de Jalostotitlán, Jal.
> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:53:53 -0800
> From: rubenazo_casillas@yahoo.com.mx
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
>
> Hola a todos, si la reunion, se hace en San Miguel El alto , cuenten conmigo en lo que les pueda ayudar, informaci'on de hoteles, trasportaci'on etc , alguna sugerecia¿
>
> Ruben Casillas M.
>
> --- El sáb 28-feb-09, Ricci, Richard escribió:
>
> De:: Ricci, Richard
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
> A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Fecha: sábado, 28 febrero, 2009, 3:52 pm
>
>
> It would be great for me if they were close together but not on the same day so
> that i may meet my cousins from both groups. My great great grandmother
> francisca Gutierrez romo is a first cousin of Sotero Gutierrez. Francisca and
> her husband Eligio romo jimenez were 2nd cousins to each other and both of them
> closely related to sotero gutierrez and his wife.
> from this romo family is my great aunt that just a few years ago recalled how
> when she was very young she threw fruit from from a tree at her uncle Santo
> toribio romo as he was walking on the sidewalk in front of her house. At first
> he was just dodging the fruit because he did not know where it was coming from.
> When he looked up and finally figured out who was throwing the fruit and from
> where he moved out of reach and admonished her. He warned her that he was going
> to tell her father( who was his cousin).
> She was very old when she told this story to my mom when she was visiting her.
> ________________________________
>
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Miggy GUTIERREZ
> Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 11:23 AM
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
>
>
>
> Last year , the same day August 2, 2008 in Guadalajara there was the first
> reunion known as the Gutierrada. The families of the Jose Sotero Gutierrez and
> Maria de Jesus Romo from el Rancho de la Escondida near Jalostotitlan had a
> successful reunion. By coincidence I believe they are planning their second
> reunion this year also the same day August 2, 2009 .
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Claudia_Reynoso
> To:
> general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:13 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion 2009 - travel partners from California???
>
>
>
> I am interested in attending the Reunion this year, and would be great if I
> could partner with any NR members who will be traveling from California. I live
> in Souther Cali, and could meet up on land at any Mexican airport, or at LAX if
> I am so lucky to have local members...
>
> As far as preferred date--I agree with Ricci, July/August would work better
> for us up here, as it is vacation season.
> -Claudia
>
GRacias por tu atención.
Yo tengo de los hijos de Eligio Romo Jiménez casado con Francisca Gutiérrez González.
Canuto caso con María Concepción Gutiérrez.
Juan casó María Gutiérrez.
Reyes desconozco con quien casó
Irinea casó Pablo Romo
María del Refugio desconozco con quien casó.
Emeterio casó desconozco con quien casó ( pero ya que me dices que era tu tatarabuelo me da gusto saber que tenemos algo en comun, ya que solo sabia que su descendencia vivia en el municipio del Valle de Guadalupe.)
Dionicia casó con Dionicio Gutiérrez.
Por lo anterior me da gusto el tener una linea de parentezco, ( tal vez no te acuerdes de mi pero soy el de Jalos que fuimos contigo un servidor y John González, estuvimos presente en la conferencia con el Lic. Mariano González, tal vez te acuerdes que fuimos a la hacienda del Cuadrado que por cierto no nos dejaron pasar a la hacienda.
Sin más de momento agradezco tu atención y estamos en comunicación.
p. d. un día pase a saludarte y no te encontre, pase con tu papa y le deje mis saludos.
ATTE.
José MaRÍA Vallejo.
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 18:48:32 -0800
> From: rricci@lausd.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Reunions 2009 -
>
> es el mismo, mi bisabuelo Eligio Romo Jimenez fue casado con Francisca Gutierrez Gonzalez. Eligio fue padre de emeterio romo Gutierrez quien se caso Serapia Franco Barba. mi abuelo Hermenegildo Romo Franco y el doctor Rito Romo Franco son hijos de emeterio y rito.
> yo tengo a Maria josefa Romo Jimenez, hermana de mi tatarabuelo nascida en 1848 en los Portales y casada con agustin Vallejo el 17/de enero/ 1867.
>
> yo tengo los hijos que dices pero mas para un total de ocho
>
> tambien tengo mucho de tu arbol ya hecho
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of jose maria vallejo mercado
> Sent: Tue 3/3/2009 5:15 PM
> To: consulta genealogica
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Reunions 2009 -
>
>
>
>
>
> Mi nombre es JOsé María Vallejo Mercado, y ahorita que abri el correo se me hizo familiar el nombre de Eligio Romo Jiménez, lo anterior debido a que mi tatarabuela se llamaba Josefa Romo JIménez, y tengo conociemiento que tenia entre otros hermanos a Dorotea que casó con Jacinto Hurtado; tambien Teresa que casó con Doroteo Alvarez; y a Eligio casado con Francisca Gutiérrez ( desconozco el apelolido materno y quienes fueron sus padres).
>
>
>
> Josefa casó con mi tatarabuelo Agustin Vallejo Tostado, hijo de JOaquin Vallejo y de Juana Tostado.
>
> Joséfa era hija de Pablo Romo y Manuela JIménez.
>
>
>
> Mi pregunta es si se trata de Eligio era hijo de Pablo Romo y Manuela JIménez, o se trata de otro Eligio. y si sabes de quienes eran sus padres.
>
>
>
> Si tienes los datos te agradeceria mucho si me los enviares a este correo, Vivo en Jalostotitlán, Jal.
>
>
>
> Otro dato que te puedo ofrecer es que Eligio nació en el rancho "Los Portales, Municipio de Jalostotitlán, Jal.
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:53:53 -0800
> > From: rubenazo_casillas@yahoo.com.mx
> > To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
> >
> > Hola a todos, si la reunion, se hace en San Miguel El alto , cuenten conmigo en lo que les pueda ayudar, informaci'on de hoteles, trasportaci'on etc , alguna sugerecia¿
> >
> > Ruben Casillas M.
> >
> > --- El sáb 28-feb-09, Ricci, Richard escribió:
> >
> > De:: Ricci, Richard
> > Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
> > A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Fecha: sábado, 28 febrero, 2009, 3:52 pm
> >
> >
> > It would be great for me if they were close together but not on the same day so
> > that i may meet my cousins from both groups. My great great grandmother
> > francisca Gutierrez romo is a first cousin of Sotero Gutierrez. Francisca and
> > her husband Eligio romo jimenez were 2nd cousins to each other and both of them
> > closely related to sotero gutierrez and his wife.
> > from this romo family is my great aunt that just a few years ago recalled how
> > when she was very young she threw fruit from from a tree at her uncle Santo
> > toribio romo as he was walking on the sidewalk in front of her house. At first
> > he was just dodging the fruit because he did not know where it was coming from.
> > When he looked up and finally figured out who was throwing the fruit and from
> > where he moved out of reach and admonished her. He warned her that he was going
> > to tell her father( who was his cousin).
> > She was very old when she told this story to my mom when she was visiting her.
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Miggy GUTIERREZ
> > Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 11:23 AM
> > To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
> >
> >
> >
> > Last year , the same day August 2, 2008 in Guadalajara there was the first
> > reunion known as the Gutierrada. The families of the Jose Sotero Gutierrez and
> > Maria de Jesus Romo from el Rancho de la Escondida near Jalostotitlan had a
> > successful reunion. By coincidence I believe they are planning their second
> > reunion this year also the same day August 2, 2009 .
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Claudia_Reynoso
> > To:
> > general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:13 AM
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion 2009 - travel partners from California???
> >
> >
> >
> > I am interested in attending the Reunion this year, and would be great if I
> > could partner with any NR members who will be traveling from California. I live
> > in Souther Cali, and could meet up on land at any Mexican airport, or at LAX if
> > I am so lucky to have local members...
> >
> > As far as preferred date--I agree with Ricci, July/August would work better
> > for us up here, as it is vacation season.
> > -Claudia
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Correo Yahoo!
> > Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!
> > Regístrate ya - http://correo.yahoo.com.mx/
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> ¿Qué hay de nuevo con tus contactos de Messenger?
> www.messengernews.com.mx
Hola Jose Maria,
Me estas confundiendo Con ricardo rodriguez. tambien me llamo ricardo pero soy nieto de hermeregildo romo. Tambien me llamo ricardo pero la mayoria me dicen rick ricky o ricci
Cuando yo iba al valle no me presentaba como hijo de tal y tal. Mi padre salio del valle a los diez anos. Mi madre tambien salio del valle joven de los dies y nueve anos . Yo siempre me presentaba como nieto de mere romo o sobrino del doctor Rito Romo Franco, sobrino de la prieta. le decian la prieta aungue era blanca de cara porque de sus hermanos es la unica que tenia el pelo negro. Los demas eran jueros con los ojos azueles.
aunque algunos si conocen mis padres mas me conocen por mi abuelo o porque soy primo de tal y tal.
________________________________
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of jose maria vallejo mercado
Sent: Thu 3/5/2009 2:35 PM
To: consulta genealogica; Ricardo Rodríguez Camarena
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Reunions 2009 -
GRacias por tu atención.
Yo tengo de los hijos de Eligio Romo Jiménez casado con Francisca Gutiérrez González.
Canuto caso con María Concepción Gutiérrez.
Juan casó María Gutiérrez.
Reyes desconozco con quien casó
Irinea casó Pablo Romo
María del Refugio desconozco con quien casó.
Emeterio casó desconozco con quien casó ( pero ya que me dices que era tu tatarabuelo me da gusto saber que tenemos algo en comun, ya que solo sabia que su descendencia vivia en el municipio del Valle de Guadalupe.)
Dionicia casó con Dionicio Gutiérrez.
Por lo anterior me da gusto el tener una linea de parentezco, ( tal vez no te acuerdes de mi pero soy el de Jalos que fuimos contigo un servidor y John González, estuvimos presente en la conferencia con el Lic. Mariano González, tal vez te acuerdes que fuimos a la hacienda del Cuadrado que por cierto no nos dejaron pasar a la hacienda.
Sin más de momento agradezco tu atención y estamos en comunicación.
p. d. un día pase a saludarte y no te encontre, pase con tu papa y le deje mis saludos.
ATTE.
José MaRÍA Vallejo.
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 18:48:32 -0800
> From: rricci@lausd.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Reunions 2009 -
>
> es el mismo, mi bisabuelo Eligio Romo Jimenez fue casado con Francisca Gutierrez Gonzalez. Eligio fue padre de emeterio romo Gutierrez quien se caso Serapia Franco Barba. mi abuelo Hermenegildo Romo Franco y el doctor Rito Romo Franco son hijos de emeterio y rito.
> yo tengo a Maria josefa Romo Jimenez, hermana de mi tatarabuelo nascida en 1848 en los Portales y casada con agustin Vallejo el 17/de enero/ 1867.
>
> yo tengo los hijos que dices pero mas para un total de ocho
>
> tambien tengo mucho de tu arbol ya hecho
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of jose maria vallejo mercado
> Sent: Tue 3/3/2009 5:15 PM
> To: consulta genealogica
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Reunions 2009 -
>
>
>
>
>
> Mi nombre es JOsé María Vallejo Mercado, y ahorita que abri el correo se me hizo familiar el nombre de Eligio Romo Jiménez, lo anterior debido a que mi tatarabuela se llamaba Josefa Romo JIménez, y tengo conociemiento que tenia entre otros hermanos a Dorotea que casó con Jacinto Hurtado; tambien Teresa que casó con Doroteo Alvarez; y a Eligio casado con Francisca Gutiérrez ( desconozco el apelolido materno y quienes fueron sus padres).
>
>
>
> Josefa casó con mi tatarabuelo Agustin Vallejo Tostado, hijo de JOaquin Vallejo y de Juana Tostado.
>
> Joséfa era hija de Pablo Romo y Manuela JIménez.
>
>
>
> Mi pregunta es si se trata de Eligio era hijo de Pablo Romo y Manuela JIménez, o se trata de otro Eligio. y si sabes de quienes eran sus padres.
>
>
>
> Si tienes los datos te agradeceria mucho si me los enviares a este correo, Vivo en Jalostotitlán, Jal.
>
>
>
> Otro dato que te puedo ofrecer es que Eligio nació en el rancho "Los Portales, Municipio de Jalostotitlán, Jal.
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:53:53 -0800
> > From: rubenazo_casillas@yahoo.com.mx
> > To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
> >
> > Hola a todos, si la reunion, se hace en San Miguel El alto , cuenten conmigo en lo que les pueda ayudar, informaci'on de hoteles, trasportaci'on etc , alguna sugerecia¿
> >
> > Ruben Casillas M.
> >
> > --- El sáb 28-feb-09, Ricci, Richard escribió:
> >
> > De:: Ricci, Richard
> > Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
> > A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Fecha: sábado, 28 febrero, 2009, 3:52 pm
> >
> >
> > It would be great for me if they were close together but not on the same day so
> > that i may meet my cousins from both groups. My great great grandmother
> > francisca Gutierrez romo is a first cousin of Sotero Gutierrez. Francisca and
> > her husband Eligio romo jimenez were 2nd cousins to each other and both of them
> > closely related to sotero gutierrez and his wife.
> > from this romo family is my great aunt that just a few years ago recalled how
> > when she was very young she threw fruit from from a tree at her uncle Santo
> > toribio romo as he was walking on the sidewalk in front of her house. At first
> > he was just dodging the fruit because he did not know where it was coming from.
> > When he looked up and finally figured out who was throwing the fruit and from
> > where he moved out of reach and admonished her. He warned her that he was going
> > to tell her father( who was his cousin).
> > She was very old when she told this story to my mom when she was visiting her.
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Miggy GUTIERREZ
> > Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 11:23 AM
> > To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
> >
> >
> >
> > Last year , the same day August 2, 2008 in Guadalajara there was the first
> > reunion known as the Gutierrada. The families of the Jose Sotero Gutierrez and
> > Maria de Jesus Romo from el Rancho de la Escondida near Jalostotitlan had a
> > successful reunion. By coincidence I believe they are planning their second
> > reunion this year also the same day August 2, 2009 .
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Claudia_Reynoso
> > To:
> > general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:13 AM
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion 2009 - travel partners from California???
> >
> >
> >
> > I am interested in attending the Reunion this year, and would be great if I
> > could partner with any NR members who will be traveling from California. I live
> > in Souther Cali, and could meet up on land at any Mexican airport, or at LAX if
> > I am so lucky to have local members...
> >
> > As far as preferred date--I agree with Ricci, July/August would work better
> > for us up here, as it is vacation season.
> > -Claudia
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Correo Yahoo!
> > Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!
> > Regístrate ya - http://correo.yahoo.com.mx/
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> ¿Qué hay de nuevo con tus contactos de Messenger?
> www.messengernews.com.mx
Jose Reyes se caso con Cleta Franco Alvarez hija de Nestor Franco y martin y maria josefa alvarez rodriguez
Jose Romo, hijo de jose reyes romo gut. y Cleta Franco Alvarez se caso Mercedes Barba Cornejo
Jose Romo Franco y Mercedes Barba Cornejo son los padres de jorge Romo Barba, autor de libro un libro sobre la historia del valle de gpe con arbols genealogicos de la familias barba y martin
la hermana de jorge, Maria Luisa Romo Barba se caso con su primo segundo J. Gpe Romo perez hijo de Hermengildo Romo Franco Y Maria del Carmen Perez Ramirez
Mi madre, juanita romo perez, tambien es hija de Hermenegildo Romo Franco & Maria carmen Perez Ramirez
________________________________
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of jose maria vallejo mercado
Sent: Thu 3/5/2009 2:35 PM
To: consulta genealogica; Ricardo Rodríguez Camarena
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Reunions 2009 -
GRacias por tu atención.
Yo tengo de los hijos de Eligio Romo Jiménez casado con Francisca Gutiérrez González.
Canuto caso con María Concepción Gutiérrez.
Juan casó María Gutiérrez.
Reyes desconozco con quien casó
Irinea casó Pablo Romo
María del Refugio desconozco con quien casó.
Emeterio casó desconozco con quien casó ( pero ya que me dices que era tu tatarabuelo me da gusto saber que tenemos algo en comun, ya que solo sabia que su descendencia vivia en el municipio del Valle de Guadalupe.)
Dionicia casó con Dionicio Gutiérrez.
Por lo anterior me da gusto el tener una linea de parentezco, ( tal vez no te acuerdes de mi pero soy el de Jalos que fuimos contigo un servidor y John González, estuvimos presente en la conferencia con el Lic. Mariano González, tal vez te acuerdes que fuimos a la hacienda del Cuadrado que por cierto no nos dejaron pasar a la hacienda.
Sin más de momento agradezco tu atención y estamos en comunicación.
p. d. un día pase a saludarte y no te encontre, pase con tu papa y le deje mis saludos.
ATTE.
José MaRÍA Vallejo.
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 18:48:32 -0800
> From: rricci@lausd.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Reunions 2009 -
>
> es el mismo, mi bisabuelo Eligio Romo Jimenez fue casado con Francisca Gutierrez Gonzalez. Eligio fue padre de emeterio romo Gutierrez quien se caso Serapia Franco Barba. mi abuelo Hermenegildo Romo Franco y el doctor Rito Romo Franco son hijos de emeterio y rito.
> yo tengo a Maria josefa Romo Jimenez, hermana de mi tatarabuelo nascida en 1848 en los Portales y casada con agustin Vallejo el 17/de enero/ 1867.
>
> yo tengo los hijos que dices pero mas para un total de ocho
>
> tambien tengo mucho de tu arbol ya hecho
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of jose maria vallejo mercado
> Sent: Tue 3/3/2009 5:15 PM
> To: consulta genealogica
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Reunions 2009 -
>
>
>
>
>
> Mi nombre es JOsé María Vallejo Mercado, y ahorita que abri el correo se me hizo familiar el nombre de Eligio Romo Jiménez, lo anterior debido a que mi tatarabuela se llamaba Josefa Romo JIménez, y tengo conociemiento que tenia entre otros hermanos a Dorotea que casó con Jacinto Hurtado; tambien Teresa que casó con Doroteo Alvarez; y a Eligio casado con Francisca Gutiérrez ( desconozco el apelolido materno y quienes fueron sus padres).
>
>
>
> Josefa casó con mi tatarabuelo Agustin Vallejo Tostado, hijo de JOaquin Vallejo y de Juana Tostado.
>
> Joséfa era hija de Pablo Romo y Manuela JIménez.
>
>
>
> Mi pregunta es si se trata de Eligio era hijo de Pablo Romo y Manuela JIménez, o se trata de otro Eligio. y si sabes de quienes eran sus padres.
>
>
>
> Si tienes los datos te agradeceria mucho si me los enviares a este correo, Vivo en Jalostotitlán, Jal.
>
>
>
> Otro dato que te puedo ofrecer es que Eligio nació en el rancho "Los Portales, Municipio de Jalostotitlán, Jal.
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:53:53 -0800
> > From: rubenazo_casillas@yahoo.com.mx
> > To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
> >
> > Hola a todos, si la reunion, se hace en San Miguel El alto , cuenten conmigo en lo que les pueda ayudar, informaci'on de hoteles, trasportaci'on etc , alguna sugerecia¿
> >
> > Ruben Casillas M.
> >
> > --- El sáb 28-feb-09, Ricci, Richard escribió:
> >
> > De:: Ricci, Richard
> > Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
> > A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Fecha: sábado, 28 febrero, 2009, 3:52 pm
> >
> >
> > It would be great for me if they were close together but not on the same day so
> > that i may meet my cousins from both groups. My great great grandmother
> > francisca Gutierrez romo is a first cousin of Sotero Gutierrez. Francisca and
> > her husband Eligio romo jimenez were 2nd cousins to each other and both of them
> > closely related to sotero gutierrez and his wife.
> > from this romo family is my great aunt that just a few years ago recalled how
> > when she was very young she threw fruit from from a tree at her uncle Santo
> > toribio romo as he was walking on the sidewalk in front of her house. At first
> > he was just dodging the fruit because he did not know where it was coming from.
> > When he looked up and finally figured out who was throwing the fruit and from
> > where he moved out of reach and admonished her. He warned her that he was going
> > to tell her father( who was his cousin).
> > She was very old when she told this story to my mom when she was visiting her.
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Miggy GUTIERREZ
> > Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 11:23 AM
> > To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
> >
> >
> >
> > Last year , the same day August 2, 2008 in Guadalajara there was the first
> > reunion known as the Gutierrada. The families of the Jose Sotero Gutierrez and
> > Maria de Jesus Romo from el Rancho de la Escondida near Jalostotitlan had a
> > successful reunion. By coincidence I believe they are planning their second
> > reunion this year also the same day August 2, 2009 .
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Claudia_Reynoso
> > To:
> > general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:13 AM
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion 2009 - travel partners from California???
> >
> >
> >
> > I am interested in attending the Reunion this year, and would be great if I
> > could partner with any NR members who will be traveling from California. I live
> > in Souther Cali, and could meet up on land at any Mexican airport, or at LAX if
> > I am so lucky to have local members...
> >
> > As far as preferred date--I agree with Ricci, July/August would work better
> > for us up here, as it is vacation season.
> > -Claudia
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
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A los hijos de agustin vallejo y Josefa romo no mas tengo a Jose antonio Vallejo Romo y Mariana Vallejo Romo
Alos hijos de anastacio vallejo y rafaela ochoa tengo a cinco:
Jose juaquin Macario Vallejo Ochoa
Jose Francisco de Santiago Vallejo Ochoa
Maria de la Asumpcion Vallejo Ochoa
Maria Rita Vallejo Ochoa
Manuel vallejo Ochoa
a los hijos de Jose Juaquin Macario vallejo ochoa y juana maria de jesus no mas tengo a Leonardo vallejo tostado y a agustin vallejo tostado
De los ijos de jose Pablo romo gutierrez y maria manuela jimenez gonzalez tengo a :
Eligio Romo Jimenez nacido 7/dec/1834
Dorotea Romo Jimenez 8/jun/1841
Francisca Romo J. 26/sep/1843
Ma. de la asencion Romo j. 23/mayo/1846
Jose alejo romo j 23 jul 1848
emigdio romo j.8/aug/1852
tereza romo j. 22/may/1854
maria josefa 1848
los dos pablo romo gutierrez y su esposa maria manuela jimenez gonzalez son parientes muy cercanos a los abuelos de santo toribio romo
________________________________
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of jose maria vallejo mercado
Sent: Tue 3/3/2009 5:15 PM
To: consulta genealogica
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Reunions 2009 -
Mi nombre es JOsé María Vallejo Mercado, y ahorita que abri el correo se me hizo familiar el nombre de Eligio Romo Jiménez, lo anterior debido a que mi tatarabuela se llamaba Josefa Romo JIménez, y tengo conociemiento que tenia entre otros hermanos a Dorotea que casó con Jacinto Hurtado; tambien Teresa que casó con Doroteo Alvarez; y a Eligio casado con Francisca Gutiérrez ( desconozco el apelolido materno y quienes fueron sus padres).
Josefa casó con mi tatarabuelo Agustin Vallejo Tostado, hijo de JOaquin Vallejo y de Juana Tostado.
Joséfa era hija de Pablo Romo y Manuela JIménez.
Mi pregunta es si se trata de Eligio era hijo de Pablo Romo y Manuela JIménez, o se trata de otro Eligio. y si sabes de quienes eran sus padres.
Si tienes los datos te agradeceria mucho si me los enviares a este correo, Vivo en Jalostotitlán, Jal.
Otro dato que te puedo ofrecer es que Eligio nació en el rancho "Los Portales, Municipio de Jalostotitlán, Jal.
> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:53:53 -0800
> From: rubenazo_casillas@yahoo.com.mx
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
>
> Hola a todos, si la reunion, se hace en San Miguel El alto , cuenten conmigo en lo que les pueda ayudar, informaci'on de hoteles, trasportaci'on etc , alguna sugerecia¿
>
> Ruben Casillas M.
>
> --- El sáb 28-feb-09, Ricci, Richard escribió:
>
> De:: Ricci, Richard
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
> A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Fecha: sábado, 28 febrero, 2009, 3:52 pm
>
>
> It would be great for me if they were close together but not on the same day so
> that i may meet my cousins from both groups. My great great grandmother
> francisca Gutierrez romo is a first cousin of Sotero Gutierrez. Francisca and
> her husband Eligio romo jimenez were 2nd cousins to each other and both of them
> closely related to sotero gutierrez and his wife.
> from this romo family is my great aunt that just a few years ago recalled how
> when she was very young she threw fruit from from a tree at her uncle Santo
> toribio romo as he was walking on the sidewalk in front of her house. At first
> he was just dodging the fruit because he did not know where it was coming from.
> When he looked up and finally figured out who was throwing the fruit and from
> where he moved out of reach and admonished her. He warned her that he was going
> to tell her father( who was his cousin).
> She was very old when she told this story to my mom when she was visiting her.
> ________________________________
>
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Miggy GUTIERREZ
> Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 11:23 AM
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
>
>
>
> Last year , the same day August 2, 2008 in Guadalajara there was the first
> reunion known as the Gutierrada. The families of the Jose Sotero Gutierrez and
> Maria de Jesus Romo from el Rancho de la Escondida near Jalostotitlan had a
> successful reunion. By coincidence I believe they are planning their second
> reunion this year also the same day August 2, 2009 .
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Claudia_Reynoso
> To:
> general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:13 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion 2009 - travel partners from California???
>
>
>
> I am interested in attending the Reunion this year, and would be great if I
> could partner with any NR members who will be traveling from California. I live
> in Souther Cali, and could meet up on land at any Mexican airport, or at LAX if
> I am so lucky to have local members...
>
> As far as preferred date--I agree with Ricci, July/August would work better
> for us up here, as it is vacation season.
> -Claudia
>
Hola Rodolfo, que gusto saber de ti de nuevo. Justamente anoche estaba
pensando en escribirte para ver si nos podíamos echar una vuelta allá por
tus rumbos para visitar las ruinas de las pirámides de las que nos
platicaste. Estuve viendo un documental de Teotihuacán y quedé asombrado y
muy intrigado.
Acerca de la reunión, no se ha hablado nada todavía pero sí creo que ya es
hora de comenzar a planearla. También estoy de acuerdo en que sea en San
Miguel el Alto, sería perfecto, a menos que algún otro miembro sugiera otro
lugar. Tienes algo en mente como actividades? Algún miembro sugiere otro
lugar?
Saludos primo,
Ricardo
-----Mensaje original-----
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Rodolfo
Sinaí Gómez
Enviado el: viernes, febrero 20, 2009 5:01 PM
Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009
Estimados amigos quiero saber si se esta planeando una reonión de Historia y
Genealogía en Los Altos como la hubo en Valle de Guadalupe en el 2008, me
gustaría poder cooperar de cualquier forma y proponer sea en San Miguel el
Alto y con una mayor duración y actividad académica.
Hasta pronto.
Lic. Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez
_________________________________________________________________
Comparte fotos, juega y charla en Messenger.
http://download.live.com/messenger
Hola a todos ! me parese excelente idea que la reunion sea en San Miguel el Alto, planeandose con tiempo lograremos juntarnos.
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El vie 20-feb-09, Ricardo Rodriguez escribió:
De:: Ricardo Rodriguez
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: viernes, 20 febrero, 2009, 6:41 pm
Hola Rodolfo, que gusto saber de ti de nuevo. Justamente anoche estaba
pensando en escribirte para ver si nos podíamos echar una vuelta allá por
tus rumbos para visitar las ruinas de las pirámides de las que nos
platicaste. Estuve viendo un documental de Teotihuacán y quedé asombrado y
muy intrigado.
Acerca de la reunión, no se ha hablado nada todavía pero sí creo que ya es
hora de comenzar a planearla. También estoy de acuerdo en que sea en San
Miguel el Alto, sería perfecto, a menos que algún otro miembro sugiera otro
lugar. Tienes algo en mente como actividades? Algún miembro sugiere otro
lugar?
Saludos primo,
Ricardo
-----Mensaje original-----
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Rodolfo
Sinaí Gómez
Enviado el: viernes, febrero 20, 2009 5:01 PM
Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009
Estimados amigos quiero saber si se esta planeando una reonión de Historia y
Genealogía en Los Altos como la hubo en Valle de Guadalupe en el 2008, me
gustaría poder cooperar de cualquier forma y proponer sea en San Miguel el
Alto y con una mayor duración y actividad académica.
Hasta pronto.
Lic. Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez
_________________________________________________________________
Comparte fotos, juega y charla en Messenger.
http://download.live.com/messenger
Hola a todos, quisiera saber si hay más miembros interesados en asistir y
participar en nuestra segunda reunión anual de Historia y Genealogía de Los
Altos de Jalisco. En la primera reunión que tuvimos el pasado 2 de Agosto
aquí en Valle de Guadalupe, además de contar con la presencia de Don Mariano
Gonzalez Leal como invitado de honor y que nos expuso un tema acerca de la
Historia de la sociedad Alteña, contamos con la asistencia de
aproximadamente 10 miembros de Nuestros Ranchos, además de varias personas
que aunque no eran miembros de NR en aquel momento, ahora ya lo son, ya que
se han integrado a este grupo. En total fueron más de 70 personas que
vinieron que asistieron a la conferencia y a la comida.
La invitación está abierta para todos los miembros de Nuestros Ranchos que
gusten participar, ya sea para que expongan un tema en particular, nos
ayuden con la organización del evento, o hasta para sugerir ideas que nos
puedan ayudar a que el evento de este año sea todo un éxito. Contaremos con
miembros de la prensa que ya se han ofrecido a cubrir el evento para darle
la importancia que se merece un evento de este tipo aquí en la región de Los
Altos.
No se ha decidido todavía el lugar ni la fecha del evento, aún está por
definirse, pero tentativamente se quisiera hacer en junio, julio o agosto.
Si alguien tiene una fecha que quisiera sugerir, con gusto se tomará en
cuenta para proponérsela a los invitados que tendremos este año. Se ha
sugerido que sea en San Miguel el Alto, y en lo personal creo que es el
lugar ideal, ya que es céntrico, cuenta con buenos hoteles para hospedarse,
buena comida, además de ser un lugar bellísimo y representativo de la región
Alteña. Si alguien sugiere otro lugar lo podemos poner también a
consideración de todos.
Bueno primos, espero su respuesta y quedo a sus órdenes para cualquier
pregunta, sugerencia o comentario.
Hasta luego y saludos a todos!
Ricardo Rodríguez Camarena
Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco
Hola Ricardo, yo también deseo participar en ésta segunda reunión sobre los Altos de Jalisco, que aunque el otro año había dicho que iba ir no pude por motivos de trabajo, pero éste año espero no se presente otro inconveniente.
Me parece bien cualquier lugar de los Altos de Jalisco para la reunión, ya que todos los municipios alteños son buenos para visitar y conocer, no se mucho de los servicios hoteleros que se ofrecen en los municipios ajenos a Tepatitlán, pero yo que vivo en Tepa se que hay muchos hoteles, y que dan buen servicio, yo propondría a Tepa por ese motivo, pero si dices que también en San Miguel hay buen servicio creo que estará bien. Por mi no hay problema, pues me trasladaría de Tepa a San Miguel, pero hay que ver quienes asistirán al evento.
Ricardo, en lo que te pueda ayudar ya sabes que aquí estoy disponible.
Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
Sabes que son imágenes dinámicas en Messenger? Descúbrelo.
http://download.live.com/messenger
Hi tocayo,
I rec'd the book yesterday and I found a picture of you in it. Thanks for sending it to me.
As to the reunion I believe it would easier if were in mid to late july or early august so that more people from the states may attend. I know for me it would me much easier since I teach and that is my time off. I would also prefer San Miguel since that is where my wife is from but I also have a lot of good memories from Tepa. I also have first cousins that still live in Tepa.
________________________________
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricardo Rodriguez
Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 2:18 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009 en Los Altos de Jalisco
Hola a todos, quisiera saber si hay más miembros interesados en asistir y
participar en nuestra segunda reunión anual de Historia y Genealogía de Los
Altos de Jalisco. En la primera reunión que tuvimos el pasado 2 de Agosto
aquí en Valle de Guadalupe, además de contar con la presencia de Don Mariano
Gonzalez Leal como invitado de honor y que nos expuso un tema acerca de la
Historia de la sociedad Alteña, contamos con la asistencia de
aproximadamente 10 miembros de Nuestros Ranchos, además de varias personas
que aunque no eran miembros de NR en aquel momento, ahora ya lo son, ya que
se han integrado a este grupo. En total fueron más de 70 personas que
vinieron que asistieron a la conferencia y a la comida.
La invitación está abierta para todos los miembros de Nuestros Ranchos que
gusten participar, ya sea para que expongan un tema en particular, nos
ayuden con la organización del evento, o hasta para sugerir ideas que nos
puedan ayudar a que el evento de este año sea todo un éxito. Contaremos con
miembros de la prensa que ya se han ofrecido a cubrir el evento para darle
la importancia que se merece un evento de este tipo aquí en la región de Los
Altos.
No se ha decidido todavía el lugar ni la fecha del evento, aún está por
definirse, pero tentativamente se quisiera hacer en junio, julio o agosto.
Si alguien tiene una fecha que quisiera sugerir, con gusto se tomará en
cuenta para proponérsela a los invitados que tendremos este año. Se ha
sugerido que sea en San Miguel el Alto, y en lo personal creo que es el
lugar ideal, ya que es céntrico, cuenta con buenos hoteles para hospedarse,
buena comida, además de ser un lugar bellísimo y representativo de la región
Alteña. Si alguien sugiere otro lugar lo podemos poner también a
consideración de todos.
Bueno primos, espero su respuesta y quedo a sus órdenes para cualquier
pregunta, sugerencia o comentario.
Hasta luego y saludos a todos!
Ricardo Rodríguez Camarena
Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco
Hoal Ricardo, mi nombre e José María Vallejo Mercado, originario y vecino de Jalostotitlán, Jal.
Hoy tuve tiempo de abrir el correo en el cual haces la invitación a la segunda reunion:
Estuve en al primer reunion en Valle de Guadalupe, Jal. la cual me pareción muy importante tanto más que estuvo el Lic. Mariano González Leal, lo cual fue todo un exito en parte por tu participación.
Estoy dispuesto a ESTAR EN LA SEGUNDA REUNIÓN, y si es necesario alguna aportación economica para solventar los gastos estoy en la mejor disposición, ya que mo reze el refran " entre muchos la carga es mas liviana".
Solo espero la confirmación o información por este medio, y si tiene cuenta bancaria para realizar la aportación, igual la puedes anotar.
Sin más de momento, felicidades y gracias.
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:01:02 -0800
> From: rricci@lausd.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009 en Los Altos de Jalisco
>
> Hi tocayo,
> I rec'd the book yesterday and I found a picture of you in it. Thanks for sending it to me.
> As to the reunion I believe it would easier if were in mid to late july or early august so that more people from the states may attend. I know for me it would me much easier since I teach and that is my time off. I would also prefer San Miguel since that is where my wife is from but I also have a lot of good memories from Tepa. I also have first cousins that still live in Tepa.
> ________________________________
>
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricardo Rodriguez
> Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 2:18 PM
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009 en Los Altos de Jalisco
>
>
>
> Hola a todos, quisiera saber si hay más miembros interesados en asistir y
> participar en nuestra segunda reunión anual de Historia y Genealogía de Los
> Altos de Jalisco. En la primera reunión que tuvimos el pasado 2 de Agosto
> aquí en Valle de Guadalupe, además de contar con la presencia de Don Mariano
> Gonzalez Leal como invitado de honor y que nos expuso un tema acerca de la
> Historia de la sociedad Alteña, contamos con la asistencia de
> aproximadamente 10 miembros de Nuestros Ranchos, además de varias personas
> que aunque no eran miembros de NR en aquel momento, ahora ya lo son, ya que
> se han integrado a este grupo. En total fueron más de 70 personas que
> vinieron que asistieron a la conferencia y a la comida.
>
> La invitación está abierta para todos los miembros de Nuestros Ranchos que
> gusten participar, ya sea para que expongan un tema en particular, nos
> ayuden con la organización del evento, o hasta para sugerir ideas que nos
> puedan ayudar a que el evento de este año sea todo un éxito. Contaremos con
> miembros de la prensa que ya se han ofrecido a cubrir el evento para darle
> la importancia que se merece un evento de este tipo aquí en la región de Los
> Altos.
>
> No se ha decidido todavía el lugar ni la fecha del evento, aún está por
> definirse, pero tentativamente se quisiera hacer en junio, julio o agosto.
> Si alguien tiene una fecha que quisiera sugerir, con gusto se tomará en
> cuenta para proponérsela a los invitados que tendremos este año. Se ha
> sugerido que sea en San Miguel el Alto, y en lo personal creo que es el
> lugar ideal, ya que es céntrico, cuenta con buenos hoteles para hospedarse,
> buena comida, además de ser un lugar bellísimo y representativo de la región
> Alteña. Si alguien sugiere otro lugar lo podemos poner también a
> consideración de todos.
>
> Bueno primos, espero su respuesta y quedo a sus órdenes para cualquier
> pregunta, sugerencia o comentario.
>
> Hasta luego y saludos a todos!
>
> Ricardo Rodríguez Camarena
> Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco
>
>
Les aviso que aunque no les conteste a los que han mostrado interés en
asistir a nuestra reunión del 2009, estoy anotando los nombres de cada
persona que ha contestado para cuando comencemos a oficializar el evento
mandarles un correo con las propuestas y detalles del evento.
Por lo que han sugerido, la mayoría está de acuerdo en que la reunión se
lleve a cabo la primera semana de agosto, ya sea el día primero (sábado) o
el día ocho, y el lugar parece ser que será San Miguel el Alto, a menos que
cambien los planes.
Entre más se acerque el día del evento les iremos mandando correos a los que
han mostrado el deseo de asistir.
Gracias a todos por su ayuda y su tiempo.
Saludos
Ricardo Rodríguez Camarena
Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco
Ricardo, por favor tomame en cuenta, gracias.si en algo puedo ayudar cuenta conmigo.
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El mar 3-mar-09, Ricardo Rodriguez escribió:
De:: Ricardo Rodriguez
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009 en Los Altos de Jalisco
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: martes, 3 marzo, 2009, 8:17 pm
Les aviso que aunque no les conteste a los que han mostrado interés en
asistir a nuestra reunión del 2009, estoy anotando los nombres de cada
persona que ha contestado para cuando comencemos a oficializar el evento
mandarles un correo con las propuestas y detalles del evento.
Por lo que han sugerido, la mayoría está de acuerdo en que la reunión se
lleve a cabo la primera semana de agosto, ya sea el día primero (sábado) o
el día ocho, y el lugar parece ser que será San Miguel el Alto, a menos que
cambien los planes.
Entre más se acerque el día del evento les iremos mandando correos a los que
han mostrado el deseo de asistir.
Gracias a todos por su ayuda y su tiempo.
Saludos
Ricardo Rodríguez Camarena
Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco
Estoy de acuerdo contigo.
Saludos.
Chema Vallejo
> From: rickrod.com@gmail.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 20:17:26 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009 en Los Altos de Jalisco
>
> Les aviso que aunque no les conteste a los que han mostrado interés en
> asistir a nuestra reunión del 2009, estoy anotando los nombres de cada
> persona que ha contestado para cuando comencemos a oficializar el evento
> mandarles un correo con las propuestas y detalles del evento.
>
> Por lo que han sugerido, la mayoría está de acuerdo en que la reunión se
> lleve a cabo la primera semana de agosto, ya sea el día primero (sábado) o
> el día ocho, y el lugar parece ser que será San Miguel el Alto, a menos que
> cambien los planes.
>
> Entre más se acerque el día del evento les iremos mandando correos a los que
> han mostrado el deseo de asistir.
>
> Gracias a todos por su ayuda y su tiempo.
>
> Saludos
>
> Ricardo Rodríguez Camarena
> Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco
>
Hola Ricardo.
Me parece muy buena la idea que sea en San Miguel el Alto, Jal. además sugiero ( y esto es solo sugerencia de mi parte ya que puede haber otras mejores) que sea el primer sabado de agosto, para que sea mas memorable o recordable la los miembros.
De igual forma la fecha seria lo de menos para mí, ya que la que se decida me parece bien.
Esperando información, agradezco la atención.
ATTE.
JOsé María Vallejo Mercado.
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:01:02 -0800
> From: rricci@lausd.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009 en Los Altos de Jalisco
>
> Hi tocayo,
> I rec'd the book yesterday and I found a picture of you in it. Thanks for sending it to me.
> As to the reunion I believe it would easier if were in mid to late july or early august so that more people from the states may attend. I know for me it would me much easier since I teach and that is my time off. I would also prefer San Miguel since that is where my wife is from but I also have a lot of good memories from Tepa. I also have first cousins that still live in Tepa.
> ________________________________
>
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricardo Rodriguez
> Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 2:18 PM
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009 en Los Altos de Jalisco
>
>
>
> Hola a todos, quisiera saber si hay más miembros interesados en asistir y
> participar en nuestra segunda reunión anual de Historia y Genealogía de Los
> Altos de Jalisco. En la primera reunión que tuvimos el pasado 2 de Agosto
> aquí en Valle de Guadalupe, además de contar con la presencia de Don Mariano
> Gonzalez Leal como invitado de honor y que nos expuso un tema acerca de la
> Historia de la sociedad Alteña, contamos con la asistencia de
> aproximadamente 10 miembros de Nuestros Ranchos, además de varias personas
> que aunque no eran miembros de NR en aquel momento, ahora ya lo son, ya que
> se han integrado a este grupo. En total fueron más de 70 personas que
> vinieron que asistieron a la conferencia y a la comida.
>
> La invitación está abierta para todos los miembros de Nuestros Ranchos que
> gusten participar, ya sea para que expongan un tema en particular, nos
> ayuden con la organización del evento, o hasta para sugerir ideas que nos
> puedan ayudar a que el evento de este año sea todo un éxito. Contaremos con
> miembros de la prensa que ya se han ofrecido a cubrir el evento para darle
> la importancia que se merece un evento de este tipo aquí en la región de Los
> Altos.
>
> No se ha decidido todavía el lugar ni la fecha del evento, aún está por
> definirse, pero tentativamente se quisiera hacer en junio, julio o agosto.
> Si alguien tiene una fecha que quisiera sugerir, con gusto se tomará en
> cuenta para proponérsela a los invitados que tendremos este año. Se ha
> sugerido que sea en San Miguel el Alto, y en lo personal creo que es el
> lugar ideal, ya que es céntrico, cuenta con buenos hoteles para hospedarse,
> buena comida, además de ser un lugar bellísimo y representativo de la región
> Alteña. Si alguien sugiere otro lugar lo podemos poner también a
> consideración de todos.
>
> Bueno primos, espero su respuesta y quedo a sus órdenes para cualquier
> pregunta, sugerencia o comentario.
>
> Hasta luego y saludos a todos!
>
> Ricardo Rodríguez Camarena
> Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco
>
>
Hola Ricardo,
Yo solo quiero saber la fecha ya que el año pasado no me fue posible acudir. Para los principios de Agosto seria ideal.
Estan la meastra Marta Duron y el Doctor Jose Enciso Contreras de la Universidad Autonoma de Zacatecas. Son dos gran personajes para dar una presentacion de la historia de la region y su gente.
Si es necesario participar con algo monetario para invitar a tales personajes, estaria dispuesta para hacer una contribucion.
Espero con mucho animo mas informacion.
Atentamente,
Alicia, San Jose, Calif
________________________________
From: Ricardo Rodriguez
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 2:18:41 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009 en Los Altos de Jalisco
Hola a todos, quisiera saber si hay más miembros interesados en asistir y
participar en nuestra segunda reunión anual de Historia y Genealogía de Los
Altos de Jalisco. En la primera reunión que tuvimos el pasado 2 de Agosto
aquí en Valle de Guadalupe, además de contar con la presencia de Don Mariano
Gonzalez Leal como invitado de honor y que nos expuso un tema acerca de la
Historia de la sociedad Alteña, contamos con la asistencia de
aproximadamente 10 miembros de Nuestros Ranchos, además de varias personas
que aunque no eran miembros de NR en aquel momento, ahora ya lo son, ya que
se han integrado a este grupo. En total fueron más de 70 personas que
vinieron que asistieron a la conferencia y a la comida.
La invitación está abierta para todos los miembros de Nuestros Ranchos que
gusten participar, ya sea para que expongan un tema en particular, nos
ayuden con la organización del evento, o hasta para sugerir ideas que nos
puedan ayudar a que el evento de este año sea todo un éxito. Contaremos con
miembros de la prensa que ya se han ofrecido a cubrir el evento para darle
la importancia que se merece un evento de este tipo aquí en la región de Los
Altos.
No se ha decidido todavía el lugar ni la fecha del evento, aún está por
definirse, pero tentativamente se quisiera hacer en junio, julio o agosto.
Si alguien tiene una fecha que quisiera sugerir, con gusto se tomará en
cuenta para proponérsela a los invitados que tendremos este año. Se ha
sugerido que sea en San Miguel el Alto, y en lo personal creo que es el
lugar ideal, ya que es céntrico, cuenta con buenos hoteles para hospedarse,
buena comida, además de ser un lugar bellísimo y representativo de la región
Alteña. Si alguien sugiere otro lugar lo podemos poner también a
consideración de todos.
Bueno primos, espero su respuesta y quedo a sus órdenes para cualquier
pregunta, sugerencia o comentario.
Hasta luego y saludos a todos!
Ricardo Rodríguez Camarena
Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco
Hola Ricardo:
Gusto en volver a saludarte, y felicitrte de nuevo por tu gran
labor en pro de
Valle de Guadalupe, Los Altos de Jalisco, todo Jalisco Mismo y la Genealogia
en verdad es envidable y digno de ejemplo toda la labor que haces.
Por mi parte me apunto de nuevo para asistir a esta segunda reunion de
Nuestros Ranchos, me parece bien San Miguel el Alto, o cualquier ciudad Alteña,
y cualquier fecha pero que sea dada a conocer con la maxima anticipacio posible
para tenerla claramente hubicada y no hacer ningun compromiso en esa fecha,
como sugerencia pudiera ser el primer sabado de Agosto, y que se trate de hacer
tradicional esa fecha para conmemorar la primera reunion, y que todos
los miembros
de Nuestros Ranchos ya con anticipacion tengan anotada en sus agendas esa fecha,
primer sabado de Agosto de cada año, para celebrar cada reunion anual,
que se haga
una tradicion.
Saludos desde Guadalajara:
Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez
Posdata Ricardo: Aunque tardecito, te agradezco por haberme
nombrado Vallelupense del Mes de Diciembre, en tu pagina del
Valle de Guadalupe, un honor inmerecido, pero que te agradezco
enormemente, un abrazo, y al parecer fui el ultimo Vallelupense
del Mes, ya que suprimiste ese rubro desde Enero.
2009/2/26 Tomás Alejandro Villegas Gómez :
> Hola Ricardo:
>
> Gusto en volver a saludarte, y felicitrte de nuevo por tu gran
> labor en pro de
> Valle de Guadalupe, Los Altos de Jalisco, todo Jalisco Mismo y la Genealogia
> en verdad es envidable y digno de ejemplo toda la labor que haces.
>
> Por mi parte me apunto de nuevo para asistir a esta segunda reunion de
> Nuestros Ranchos, me parece bien San Miguel el Alto, o cualquier ciudad Alteña,
> y cualquier fecha pero que sea dada a conocer con la maxima anticipacio posible
> para tenerla claramente hubicada y no hacer ningun compromiso en esa fecha,
> como sugerencia pudiera ser el primer sabado de Agosto, y que se trate de hacer
> tradicional esa fecha para conmemorar la primera reunion, y que todos
> los miembros
> de Nuestros Ranchos ya con anticipacion tengan anotada en sus agendas esa fecha,
> primer sabado de Agosto de cada año, para celebrar cada reunion anual,
> que se haga
> una tradicion.
>
> Saludos desde Guadalajara:
>
> Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez
>
--
Saludos desde Guadalajara:
Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez
Yo no puedo organizar la reunion pero puedo cooperar en lo que se pueda, yo soy de San Miguel y radico en Leon GTO, cualquier cosa cuenten conmigo.
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El vie 10-jul-09, Rick Rodriguez escribió:
De:: Rick Rodriguez
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: viernes 10 de julio de 2009, 1:34
Hola a todos de nuevo,
Alguno de ustedes tiene interés en que nos volvamos a reunir este año aquí
en Los Altos para una segunda reunión anual? Ya habíamos mencionado a San
Miguel el Alto como posible sede, pero todavía podríamos llegar a otros
acuerdos.
Desafortunadamente, yo no puedo organizar el evento este año pero estoy
dispuesto a ayudarle con lo que pueda al que se lance a hacerlo. Que dicen,
hay algún aventado que se anime?
Saludos
Hello everyone,
Is anyone still interested in getting together this year here in Los Altos
for a second annual reunion? We mentioned San Miguel before as a possible
reunion site, but we could still do it somewhere else.
Unfortunately, I can't organize the reunion this year but I'm willing to
help out with what I can if anyone decides to do it. What do you say, anyone
up for the challenge?
Regards,
Ricardo Rodriguez
Ricardo como estas?
Buenos días.
Como va el asunto de la reunión en San Miguel el Alto?
Yo te propongo lo siguiente, si la reunión es de un día:
9:00 registro de asistentes
9:30 Conferencia por algún experto sobre genealogía o métodos de investigación documental e internet
11:30 descanso
12:00 Conferencia por algún historiador sobre la región de Nuestros Ranchos o algún tema sobre la migración pasada y presente en la región y sus consecuencias.
15:00 Comida
Tarde libre
Pedir el apoyo del municipio de San Miguel el Alto tal vez para el espacio en un auditorio o teatro para las conferencias y para la comida.
Pedir el apoyo de los miembros de Nuestros Ranchos para la comida y el café, agua y galletas para una mesa durante las conferencias, para cubrir los ´viáticos de los conferencistas. Tal vez montar una exposición con los árboles genealógicos de algunas familias en el lugar donde sea la comida o de fotografías antiguas de nuestros abuelos, bisabuelos etc.
Entregar constancias de asistencia a los participantes avaladas por el ayuntamiento (si es que aceptan apoyar) A mi me gustaría apoyar con dinero. Por favor ya hay que comenzar a trabajar en esto si es que va a ser en agosto como lo habian planeado, ya queda casi un mes. Sería bueno confirmar la asistencia de muchos miembros y de los fundadores de ésta página, ellos merecen un reconocimiento especial por todos los miembros y por los gobiernos de todos los pueblos y estados de donde provenimos, su contribución a la cultura y estudio de la historia es enorme.
Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez
> From: rickrod.com@gmail.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 18:41:03 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009
>
> Hola Rodolfo, que gusto saber de ti de nuevo. Justamente anoche estaba
> pensando en escribirte para ver si nos podíamos echar una vuelta allá por
> tus rumbos para visitar las ruinas de las pirámides de las que nos
> platicaste. Estuve viendo un documental de Teotihuacán y quedé asombrado y
> muy intrigado.
>
> Acerca de la reunión, no se ha hablado nada todavía pero sí creo que ya es
> hora de comenzar a planearla. También estoy de acuerdo en que sea en San
> Miguel el Alto, sería perfecto, a menos que algún otro miembro sugiera otro
> lugar. Tienes algo en mente como actividades? Algún miembro sugiere otro
> lugar?
>
>
> Saludos primo,
>
> Ricardo
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Rodolfo
> Sinaí Gómez
> Enviado el: viernes, febrero 20, 2009 5:01 PM
> Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009
>
>
>
> Estimados amigos quiero saber si se esta planeando una reonión de Historia y
> Genealogía en Los Altos como la hubo en Valle de Guadalupe en el 2008, me
> gustaría poder cooperar de cualquier forma y proponer sea en San Miguel el
> Alto y con una mayor duración y actividad académica.
>
>
>
> Hasta pronto.
>
>
> Lic. Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Comparte fotos, juega y charla en Messenger.
> http://download.live.com/messenger
Hola a todos de nuevo,
Alguno de ustedes tiene interés en que nos volvamos a reunir este año aquí
en Los Altos para una segunda reunión anual? Ya habíamos mencionado a San
Miguel el Alto como posible sede, pero todavía podríamos llegar a otros
acuerdos.
Desafortunadamente, yo no puedo organizar el evento este año pero estoy
dispuesto a ayudarle con lo que pueda al que se lance a hacerlo. Que dicen,
hay algún aventado que se anime?
Saludos
Hello everyone,
Is anyone still interested in getting together this year here in Los Altos
for a second annual reunion? We mentioned San Miguel before as a possible
reunion site, but we could still do it somewhere else.
Unfortunately, I can't organize the reunion this year but I'm willing to
help out with what I can if anyone decides to do it. What do you say, anyone
up for the challenge?
Regards,
Ricardo Rodriguez
Me gusta mucho la idea de San Miguel el alto. yo no sabia de la junta del Valle y de alli son mis abuelos. La family de mi esposa y dos de mis bisabuelos son de san miguel y rancho de santa ana, Mi esposa es de la familia Tostado Gutierrez y Lomeli Gutierrez de san Miguel el Alto.
Ella desciende de Camilo Cassillas quien iso mucho para construir la plaza
Rick (Ricardo)
________________________________
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez
Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 3:01 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009
Estimados amigos quiero saber si se esta planeando una reonión de Historia y Genealogía en Los Altos como la hubo en Valle de Guadalupe en el 2008, me gustaría poder cooperar de cualquier forma y proponer sea en San Miguel el Alto y con una mayor duración y actividad académica.
Hasta pronto.
Lic. Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez
_________________________________________________________________
Comparte fotos, juega y charla en Messenger.
http://download.live.com/messenger
Richard, mi bisabuelo fue primo hermano de Camilo Casillas.
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El vie 20-feb-09, Ricci, Richard escribió:
De:: Ricci, Richard
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: viernes, 20 febrero, 2009, 5:10 pm
Me gusta mucho la idea de San Miguel el alto. yo no sabia de la junta del Valle
y de alli son mis abuelos. La family de mi esposa y dos de mis bisabuelos son de
san miguel y rancho de santa ana, Mi esposa es de la familia Tostado Gutierrez y
Lomeli Rocha de san Miguel el Alto.
Ella desciende de Camilo Cassillas quien iso mucho para construir la plaza
Rick (Ricardo)
________________________________
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Rodolfo Sinaí
Gómez
Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 3:01 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009
Estimados amigos quiero saber si se esta planeando una reonión de Historia y
Genealogía en Los Altos como la hubo en Valle de Guadalupe en el 2008, me
gustaría poder cooperar de cualquier forma y proponer sea en San Miguel el Alto
y con una mayor duración y actividad académica.
Hasta pronto.
Lic. Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez
_________________________________________________________________
Comparte fotos, juega y charla en Messenger.
http://download.live.com/messenger
en Google en la seccion de libros se encuentra un libro para ver casi esta completo y se encuentra en ingles sobre
The Encomenderos of New Spain, 1521-1555 Escrito por Robert Himmerich y Valencia
Otro libro par leer en google libros
Historia del Nuevo Reino de León (1577-1723). Escrito por Eugenio del Hoyo
Salvador Cabral Valdes
Victor Manuel
Yo tengo ese libro y esta muy interesante,si hay algo en ese libro que te interese o a un miembro con gusto le proporciono la informacion .
Saludos
Jose Luis Felix
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: cabval@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 12:09:50 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Para Leer en linea en el googlew libros
>
> en Google en la seccion de libros se encuentra un libro para ver casi esta completo y se encuentra en ingles sobre
> The Encomenderos of New Spain, 1521-1555 Escrito por Robert Himmerich y Valencia
1823. Jalisco, formerly a Province, is elevated to the status of State.
Las Genealogías de Jerez Zacatecas siempre serán inconclusas.
¿Estás diciendo que además de las 245 peliculas de los registros para Jerez
Zacatecas encontrados en:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.as…++,
todavía hay otros 96 libros?
los 96 que menciono se perdieron en la revolución porque no los tenia la
iglesia si no el gobierno y eran de otra iglesia que no era la inmaculada
--
Kutsaraipa: Lugar Mítico donde se Reunieron los Antepasados
http://jerez-zacatecas.galeon.com
http://club.telepolis.com/letorre/
http://jerezzacatecas-salvador.blogspot.com/
http://club.telepolis.com/jerz/
http://jerez-zacatecas.blogdiario.com/
http://jerez-zacatecas.blog.galeon.com/
http://jerezzacatecas.galeon.com/
salvador cabral valdes
¿Estas seguro de que se perdieron? ¿A cual iglesia pertenecían? El simple
hecho del que el gobierno los tenía no quiere decir que se perdieron. Un
documento diciendo que estaban en las manos del gobierno no necesariamente
significa que fueron destruidos los libros. El Registro Civil es parte de
los documentos que mantiene el gobierno y muchos de esos registros todavía
existen. De hecho, aunque no todas las personas registraban a sus hijos, los
documentos en el registro civil pueden ayudar a reconstruir las familias de
ese lugar además de los de la Sagrada Mitra. Desafortunadamente abarcan poco
tiempo y se necesitara utilizar otros registros, tal como los notariales
para encontrar a su familia. Quien sabe hay la posibilidad que se
encuentren algún día.
*
,En Jerez en la actualidad estas son las iglesias que existen,
El Cargadero ,Inmaculada,Sagrado Corazón,Ermita de Guadalupe,Ermita de Los
Correa,Malpaso Villanueva,San Francisco de Asís,San José Obrero , las fechas
de fundacion no las conosco, pero documentacion solo tenemos de la
inmaculada, las dos hermitas que estan juntas , la de villanueva, nos falta
la de dolores, la de guadalupe que desaparecio, en el timpo que el gobierno
quito los libros a la iglesia por lo que vi parece que fue la del santuario,
puedo equibocarmen, el gobierno no tenia registros, y como era una fuente
de ingreso por eso los extrajo de la iglesia, y si tu vez en la actualidad
el regisro civil de jerez casi no tiene casi libros de los registros
(checa la lista que se encuentra en familysearch) , que es cuando inicia el
registro civil por inicativa de Benito Juarez
el documento dice asi.
Extracion de libros
* --------------------------------------
En el libro de gobierno No 4 en la foja 18 vuelta se halla la nota siguente
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
El Dia 5 de julio de 1867, se presento en esta notaria, el juez civil de
esta ciudad
Don Jose Maria Hinojosa reclamando en nombre del gobierno del estado se le
entregaran
todos los libros de bautismos, matrimonios y defunciones: el mismo juez se
poseciono de ellos en el acto y los transporto a su jusgado, el numero total
fueron. 96 libros = 56 de bautismo, 22 de matrimoni y 18 de defunciones con
los corrientes hasta dicha fecha y de esta comienzan los que nuevamente se
han formado en esta paroquia.
es todo lo que dice.
eso es lo que dice el docuemento, coincide con los ancestros que me faltan
de informacion de 1867 hacia 1600, o la fecha que iniciaron,
bien esntonces faltan de filmar los de 1868, parece ser que es la del
santuario y de ella no existen film,
--
Kutsaraipa: Lugar Mítico donde se Reunieron los Antepasados
http://jerez-zacatecas.galeon.com
http://club.telepolis.com/letorre/
http://jerezzacatecas-salvador.blogspot.com/
http://club.telepolis.com/jerz/
http://jerez-zacatecas.blogdiario.com/
http://jerez-zacatecas.blog.galeon.com/
http://jerezzacatecas.galeon.com/
salvador cabral valdes
Navegando en internet me encontre un gedcom de Bernardino de Velazco el supuesto padre de Diego, nadamas que es muy pesado 18,852 lo que seria el bak, pero poca gente que desiende de diego lo tiene,
Salvador:
Bienvenido al sitio. Como veo ya estas contribuyendo muchisima informacion muy valiosa. El sitio Nuestros Ranchos tiene una base de datos GEDCOM donde podriamos montar el archivo. Si me lo puedes mandar a mi direccion arturo [punto] ramos2 [arroba] gmail [punto] com yo lo montare.
Gracias de nuevo.
el bak, no lo haceptan los correos, lo rechasan algunonos por la extencion y otros por falta de capacidad, debe de traer como 30000 personas del años de 1500 al año 800, tratare de enviarlo, para que se difunda de echo todos los que somos decendientes de Diego de velasco, somos decendientes de los reyes de españa y algunos otros reinoos de europa e inglaterra, ( tambien tengo copias del archivo de pares de Diego de Velasco, pero batallo para la pleografia)
Salvador Cabral Valdes
I updated my file on my DE ESCOBEDO ancestral line down to and including my parents
you entered no name, what name are your files under?
Linda in B.C.
--- On Thu, 7/9/09, jcdl1944@hotmail.com wrote:
From: jcdl1944@hotmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DE ESCOBEDO
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 12:24 PM
I updated my file on my DE ESCOBEDO ancestral line down to and including my parents
It's under the name Joseph de Leon
Hola a todos,
me realise la prueba de adn y la he comparado en algunas paginas y en ningunmomento en mexico han salido algo que diga que somos de la mism alinea los cabral solo aprece que tenemos 50 % de marcadors iguales, y en algunos casos dice que tengo el 85 porciento de los marcadores iguales a los apellidos de inglaterra y escocia, y mi arbol se ncuentra en 1610 naciendo todavia en mexico en -jerez Zacatecas
Hi All, I am wondering if anyone has any San Miguel El Alto films on Loan or are located at their local FHC.
Daniel,
How far is San Miguel El Alto from San Juan de Los Lagos? I found a Pedro Gutierrz. married to Ma. Ysidra Sta. Crus (in San Juan de Los Lagos)on 17 January 1828. One of his children was Maria de Jesus Gutierrez Santa Cruz, b. 24 June 1829, in San Miguel El Alto. Is this something you already have? Have a nice day.
-Esther Jordan
Hi All, I am wondering if anyone has any San Miguel El Alto films on Loan or
are located at their local FHC.
I have this line that I can find possibly the grandparents of one ancestor,
since I dont have the marriage of the parents.
María Jesús Gutiérrez de la Cruz
24 June 1829
San Miguel El Alto, Jalisco, México
Hija de Pedro Gutiérrez y Isidra de la Cruz
Many Thanks,
Daniel
Daniel, at my FHC I have a film from San Miguel el Alto from 1855 to 1857. Let me know if I can help. Many of my ancestors Gama are from San Miguel and I plan on asking for other films.
Daniel en el FHC de mi localidad tengo un film de San Miguel de 1855 a 1857. Si puedo ayudar, dejame saber. Muchos de mis antepasados Gama son de San Miguel, y mas adelante planeo pedir otros films.
Rosie Cordova
Wow, yeah thats them, Santa Cruz, huh I thought that was just a mistake so I ruled it out and posted Cruz, I need to update that. San Juan is pretty close to San Miguel, Jesús married in Encarnación de Díaz, what we call "La Chona" but we dont say it often, sounds weird. Have you worked on this family or have the marriage? DO you might sending it a scan? I already know its Gutiérrez but its going to end up being Gutiérrez de Mendoza or HErmosillo. They were Spaniards and married in the same families. Wow this wall was just torn down, many thanks Esther. I already had, Her baptismal date but not the marriage. That would make sense, San Juan is just up the road. If you cant send a scan well the pertinent info will be just fine. -Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_fa…
Daniel, I am struggling with my scanner (can't seem to figure how to use it :) but I am working on it.)
In the meantime, here is the information I have.
Pedro Gutierrz. married 17 January 1828, with Ma. Ysidra Sta. Crus, in San Juan De Los Lagos, Jalisco. Batch # M603413, (Ser. #00602) (1823-1841) film #00220710. They were sealed in the Los Angeles, CA Temple. In another record, they have a child named Maria de Jesus Gutierrez Santa, b. 1829.
I do have a lot of Gutierrez and Mendoza in my maternal side but they are in the 1800's. My places are Ocotlan, Zapotlan del Rey, La Barca, Jamay, and Guadalajara, and others.
I am happy to I was able to help an expert genealogist. Thank you. Esther Jordan
Wow, yeah thats them, Santa Cruz, huh I thought that was just a mistake so I
ruled it out and posted Cruz, I need to update that. San Juan is pretty close
to San Miguel, Jesús married in Encarnación de Díaz, what we call "La Chona"
but we dont say it often, sounds weird. Have you worked on this family or have
the marriage? DO you might sending it a scan? I already know its Gutiérrez but
its going to end up being Gutiérrez de Mendoza or HErmosillo. They were
Spaniards and married in the same families. Wow this wall was just torn down,
many thanks Esther. I already had, Her baptismal date but not the marriage.
That would make sense, San Juan is just up the road. If you cant send a scan
well the pertinent info will be just fine. -Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_fa…
08
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Its okay Esther, just you having the info sent to me vía email is all the prize by itself. You have helped me out already just by breaking a wall in my genealogy, I do greatly appreiciate your kindness and willingness to help. -Daniel
I am actually very exited as this will open a huge door where the alteños will coming out! I already descend from Gutiérrez de Mendoza family so would nt be surprised his parents are them. The only other Gutiérrez are Gutiérrez de Hermosillo and Gutiérrez de Coronado.
_________________________________________________________________
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Hello Everyone, seeing the post today in regards to Y DNA results, It occurred to me that I said I would share my results when they came in.
Hola a todos, viendo el post hoy en cuanto a resultados ADN-Y se me ocurrio que habia dicho que compartiera mis resultados en cuanto me llegaran. Disculpame por no haberlo hecho aunque lo mas seguro es que nadie dejo de dormir por eso ( JA !) Mis Y resultados ADN-Y son E1b1b1a2\Version Corta E-V13. Es el tercer más común haplogrupo entre los hombres de Europea y considerado uno de los bases o fundaciones de los grupos de Europe. Es el unico subgrupo E que se encuentra con baja frecuencia(2% ) en el Norte de Africa. Este subgrupo esta asociado con la península balcánica donde se encuentra el porcentaje mas grande en el mundo de E-V13. Se usa para identificar poblaciones ancianas como los ¿illyrians?, tracios y macedonios y tambien los griegos. Poblaciones modernos que tienen alta porcentaje de E-V13 son albaneses, griegos peloponesos, búlgaros y macedonios.
En España se encuentra en baja cantidad y principalmente esta concentrado en el occidente, los porcentajes son Extremadura (9%), Galicia (7%) y en el Noroeste de Castilla La Vieja (6%). Pensaban, por un tiempo, que se encontraba en España por la exploración y las colonias de los griegos, pero las colonias griegas solamante se encuentran en la costa oriental de las regiones de Cataluña y Valencia. La gran mayoria de “E” ADN-Y en España esta asociado con los bereberes, pero este es subgrupo E-M81.
Una explicación de la llegada a España y el oeste de Europa, de un marcador genético tan predominante en la peninsula balcánica y el mediterráneo oriental, se puede encontrar en un pueblo en Gales llamado Abergele. Hicieron un estudio de los residentes y 7 resultados de los 18 hombres tenian el marcador E-V13. Hicieron otro estudio mas amplio que concluyó que 40% de los hombres en el pueblo tenian el marcador E-V13. Resulta que en la antigüedad Abergele era un pueblo Romano importante. No estaba acuartelado por Romanos\Italianos sino por auxiliares Tracios y otros hombres de origen balcánico. Existe la posibilidad que pasó lo mismo en España, tal vez el marcador llegó con los auxiliarios en el ejército Romano. El marcador E-V13 tambien llegó a Afganistán y Pakistán con los hombres del ejército de Alejandro Magno. Una pequeña porcentaje se encuentra entre los grupos que reclaman que esos hombres son sus antepasados.
¿Que significa todo eso? Pues, una cosa, soy el único E-V13 en el sitio de Gary Felix, “Geneology of Mexico”. Hay otros que tienen los mismos resultados de 12\37, pero no han hecho el análisis “deep clade”, asi que ¿quien sabe? En cuestion de ayudarme con mi estudio genealógico, no ha ayudado hasta el momento. Pienso que mis antepasados posiblemente eran de una de las provincias occidentales, tal vez Extramadura, pero todo es especulación en este momento. Discuplas por aburrirles! Gracias por sus paciencia!
Roberto ~
Traducido por Armando Antuñano
"So what does it all mean?well, for one, I'm the only E-V13 on Gary Felix's website, the “Geneology of Mexico”. There are others who have the same 12 \37 marker results, but have not done the deep clade test, so who knows ? As far as helping me with my genealogy studies, as of yet it has not. I'm thinking that my ancestors in Spain may have come from one of the western provinces, perhaps Extremadura, but it’s all speculation at this point. Sorry to bore you all ! Thanks for your patience!
Robert"
Robert,
You are welcome to email Gary Felix and see what he thinks about your haplogroup but I doubt that you will get more information than what you already expressed. The E-series of haplogroups can be grouped into the Mediterranean/Semitic group of Y-DNA. So, you should not be surprised if you found yourself related to a Jew, a Berber, or whoever was in the southern part of the Mediterranean "pond"---same gene pool, same Semitic/Mediterranean stock.
Gary and a number of us have debated these sort of results ad nauseum for the last five years. Unfortunately, I await a "quantum leap" in this DNA business because all we seem to be doing DNA-wise, in my mind, is grouping us in categories which are well known inhabitants of the Iberian peninsula: Jews, Berbers, Arabs, Celts/Basques, Visigoths (Germans), "Romans," and even the Vikings; all these people invaded the Iberian peninsula. So, your gggggg---ggg grandfather may have been a Jew or a Berber or an Arab or "North African." Hmmm. Yes, but maybe this is not the information you wanted. Maybe it is information you wanted.
Ten generations is approximately 300 years, i.e. gets you back to 1709. One generation is you. The next generation is your mother and father, 2 ancestors. The next generation is your grandparents generation, 4 ancestors. Next generation, 8 ancestors. Etc. etc. Therefore, using math, in 300 years you have 2 to the 10th distinct ancestors. You have 1024 ancestors from 1709 time frame, so your Y-DNA is 1/1024th of those ancestors since it only reflects the Y-DNA of your father's father's father's father's.......father.
Hang in there with this seemingly complicated comment, which in reality is not complicated at all. Admittedly, some of those ancestors probably intermarried so you maybe you have less than 1024 ancestors from 1709. But if there were no intermarriages, then one more generation, the eleventh, gives you 2048 distinct ancestors. Can you imagine if you go back 500-600 years (Isabella and Ferdinand) and there are no intermarriages----a mind boggling number of ancestors.
So. So. What you have to conclude from this type of argument/discussion is that many, many, many of us from a certain area are very, very, very, very likely related because, if you think about it for more than a few minutes and think about how many people there are now and how many few people there were back then, then we have to have many common ancestors in Old Mexico---forget about Iberia, forget the Balkans, forget Europe, forget them and think about the math. Bottom line, there were very few people back then and there are a lot of us now.
We are branches of a few trees. I am trying to not sound condescending; trust me.
As one of my Mexican-American genealogy friends, Robert Tarin says, "we are all related."
Think about it. The math majors will understand in a second.
Ed
p.s. Extremadura is one of the "Rayas de Portugal" where many of the original
settlers (and Jews) of Mexico came from.
Gentlemen,
The Y-DNA test can offer some surprises and leave you with more questions
instead of answers. I expected a variety of possible origins, except the one
found. So far, I'm the only
one in the study to turn up Haplogroup O. Although my Robledo family line
claimed. Asturias as their homeland, it is actualy South Asia, most likley
the Phillipines.
Eric Robledo Edgar
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 8:47 PM, wrote:
> "So what does it all mean?well, for one, I'm the only E-V13 on Gary Felix's
> website, the “Geneology of Mexico”. There are others who have the same 12
> \37 marker results, but have not done the deep clade test, so who knows ? As
> far as helping me with my genealogy studies, as of yet it has not. I'm
> thinking that my ancestors in Spain may have come from one of the western
> provinces, perhaps Extremadura, but it’s all speculation at this point.
> Sorry to bore you all ! Thanks for your patience!
>
> Robert"
>
>
>
> Robert,
>
> You are welcome to email Gary Felix and see what he thinks about your
> haplogroup but I doubt that you will get more information than what you
> already expressed. The E-series of haplogroups can be grouped into the
> Mediterranean/Semitic group of Y-DNA. So, you should not be surprised if you
> found yourself related to a Jew, a Berber, or whoever was in the southern
> part of the Mediterranean "pond"---same gene pool, same
> Semitic/Mediterranean stock.
> Gary and a number of us have debated these sort of results ad nauseum for
> the last five years. Unfortunately, I await a "quantum leap" in this DNA
> business because all we seem to be doing DNA-wise, in my mind, is grouping
> us in categories which are well known inhabitants of the Iberian peninsula:
> Jews, Berbers, Arabs, Celts/Basques, Visigoths (Germans), "Romans," and
> even the Vikings; all these people invaded the Iberian peninsula. So, your
> gggggg---ggg grandfather may have been a Jew or a Berber or an Arab or
> "North African." Hmmm. Yes, but maybe this is not the information you
> wanted. Maybe it is information you wanted.
>
> Ten generations is approximately 300 years, i.e. gets you back to 1709. One
> generation is you. The next generation is your mother and father, 2
> ancestors. The next generation is your grandparents generation, 4 ancestors.
> Next generation, 8 ancestors. Etc. etc. Therefore, using math, in 300 years
> you have 2 to the 10th distinct ancestors. You have 1024 ancestors from 1709
> time frame, so your Y-DNA is 1/1024th of those ancestors since it only
> reflects the Y-DNA of your father's father's father's father's.......father.
>
> Hang in there with this seemingly complicated comment, which in reality is
> not complicated at all. Admittedly, some of those ancestors probably
> intermarried so you maybe you have less than 1024 ancestors from 1709. But
> if there were no intermarriages, then one more generation, the eleventh,
> gives you 2048 distinct ancestors. Can you imagine if you go back 500-600
> years (Isabella and Ferdinand) and there are no intermarriages----a mind
> boggling number of ancestors.
>
> So. So. What you have to conclude from this type of argument/discussion is
> that many, many, many of us from a certain area are very, very, very, very
> likely related because, if you think about it for more than a few minutes
> and think about how many people there are now and how many few people there
> were back then, then we have to have many common ancestors in Old
> Mexico---forget about Iberia, forget the Balkans, forget Europe, forget them
> and think about the math. Bottom line, there were very few people back then
> and there are a lot of us now.
> We are branches of a few trees. I am trying to not sound condescending;
> trust me.
>
> As one of my Mexican-American genealogy friends, Robert Tarin says, "we are
> all related."
>
> Think about it. The math majors will understand in a second.
>
>
> Ed
>
> p.s. Extremadura is one of the "Rayas de Portugal" where many of the
> original
> settlers (and Jews) of Mexico came from.
was hesitant to jump into this thread but just thought I'd toss in my
Y-DNA results. As always with regards to DNA questions, don't ask me no
questions and I don't tell you no lies:
http://www.ysearch.org/haplosearch_view.asp?haplo=R1b1b2a1a&viewuid=XYE…
or
http://www.ysearch.org/lastname_view.asp?uid=XYESD&letter=&lastname=pue…
joseph
======================
Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)
Thanks for posting them Joseph, that is the Atalantic Modal type correct ? found through out Spain and the British Isles ? Have you done much research on this haplotype ?
Joseph, I see you commented "Spanish Origins Valley of Trucios, Province of Biscay" Do you have more info? My ancestors are from the same area, Valmaseda, but with a surname from Valle de Mena, Burgos. I won't have my results until August though.
Armando
Armando,
Is music to my ears to hear the name Valmaseda (=Balmaseda). My father-in-law, Jose Maria Ibarreche grew up there (he was born nearby). Its a beatiful Basque town just south of Bilbao, and the frontier of Viscaya with Burgos. I was told that it was never conquered by neither by the Moors or the Spaniards. The Romans constructed a beautiful Roman bridge over the river (I got a painting of it at home by one of my wife's aunts). On one side the bridge faces Valmaseda, and on the other, land at one time dominated by the moors. On that side, the moors added a tower to the bridge that is filled of inscriptions in arabic. I guess it served as a customs office to document trade between the two 'nations' at the time. You should visit it one time, the whole area is very rugged and beautiful.
What is the surname of your ancestors from that area?
Jaime Alvarado
----- Original Message -----
From: arman212@sbcglobal.net
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 1:17:38 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA update
Joseph, I see you commented "Spanish Origins Valley of Trucios, Province of Biscay" Do you have more info? My ancestors are from the same area, Valmaseda, but with a surname from Valle de Mena, Burgos. I won't have my results until August though.
Armando
Hi Ed, Thanks very much for the reply. I have been in touch with Gary and found him to a warm, helpful person who is always ready to answer a question how ever silly. A couple of comments on your post though, I have no problem with the possibility of Jewish ancestry, but this marker (E-V13) according to research is an ancient non Semitic Mediterranean marker found in it's highest levels in the Balkans, specifically among Albanians . Please don't misunderstand this explanation as a desire to prove no Jewish ancestry, rather a clarification. I’d be proud of my ancestors if they were Martians. As for Berber ancestry, the Berbers do belong to a very specific E sub clade which is E-M81, called specifically the Berber marker, it is present in over 90 percent of Berber men. My group is found at it's lowest levels in North Africa, according to some studies as low a 0.09 percent. E-M81 is found at moderate levels in Spain, E-V13 is found at very low levels in Spain. There is no such thing as a Jewish marker, no more than there is a Catholic or Protestant marker. I find it disturbing that we as Hispanics \ Latinos continue to be obsessed with purity of blood or proving one a Jew or not a Jew. An old saying goes that the grandees of Medieval Spain did not want to trace their lineage back to far as many of them had Jewish blood, the sadder for them, Spain was in ruin after it expelled the Moors and Jews. As for Extremadura having a large community of Jews, this may be true, but no more than Toledo, Burgos or Madrid. I haven't found my ancestral seat in Spain yet, it was only speculation in regards to Extremadura. I do know for a fact though, via DNA evidence that the progenitor of my Y line lived among the mountains of the Balkan range. Thanks for your time, Robert ~ P.S. , I do agree that we are all related, more importantly through our Humanity, not our blood.
Robert,
I am not saying your genetic data suggests a Jewish ancestry, only that it is a possibility, like many other possibilities, which is the problem with all this Y-DNA data. Yes, DNA does not lie, but it may not give you the truth of what happened, e.g. an illegitimate birth. Jews are a culture, a religion, a way of living; it is not a specific genetic type, although there are certain genetic types that were Jews. I try to not mix genes with cultures and religions but it is often not possible to mention one without mentioning the other.
Sangre limpia is an interesting concept, laughable when you consider Spanish history, which is a land that is one of the earliest mixing pots in the world. I have read, perhaps erroneously, that the blue bloods of Spain thought themselves to be of Visigoth extraction, which is bizarre since the Visigoths made up a such a short period of time in Spanish history.
Sangre limpia. Mexico adds another two layers of New World admixture: Black African and Native American Indian. Sangre limpia. Funny.
At this point, in my opinion, Y-DNA analysis will only give you a small picture of your ancestors, and even then it is a picture of a very few ancestors that existed many, many, many years ago. A paper trail is much more important in my mind but it takes an enormous amount of energy to produce, even going back two or three hundred years.
Saludos,
Ed
The Visigoths still exist today, in Spain and Spanish America. Spaniards are a mixture of Europeans, Celtic, Goth (Germanic) Suevic, Nordic and many more. The south tends to exist the Jewish and Arabic connection. While the north tends to be more of that Catholic blood. Essentially the Spaniards of today are the visigoths of the past. Limpieza de Sangre is a difficult thing to explain at times and very harsh to hear, essentially its to 'whiten' oneself and their descendants. This usually happened when a mestizo child (that of a European and Native American) essentially that Mestizo would marry white to make a castizo and then castizo married white again to make full European, hiding its Native American genes, from then on they would keep marrying other Spanish. If a mestizo would come along one day the whole process would repeat. A perfect example of Limpirza de Sangre would be our Moctezuma connection, Isabel married Hernan Cortes, Leonor married Valderrama, then Petronila married Navarro, who had Ana Franca. then he married Lope Esparza. By this time, no one would ever guess they would have descended from Moctezuma, as they would have looked like the average European child. It just shows the stuff our ancestors did to crazy extremes. Actuall a saying of Los Altos states, us alteños as los 'Godos'.
"Son los de este pueblo (Los Altos de Jalisco)
de sangre de godos
todos son parientes,
y enemigos todos."
MAriano Gonzalez Leal startes talking about the alteños and their noble ancestors that of the Visigoths and the Hidalgos. The amazing book he wrote is dedicated to Los Altos.
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Hi Mendez, very interesting post. I've never had the pleasure of visiting my father's birthplace, San Jose De Bazarte in Los Altos. My great grandfather is buried under the alter in the small church there, from what I hear my family were haciendados who were one of the first spanish familes to settle there. I have pictures of them and they were all tall, blonde haired and blue eyed except for my grandfather who was tall, but had jet black hair. They were all horsemen, as many in Los Altos are, according to my grandmother, the Gonzalez's lived in the saddle.
They did also intermarry with their 2nd and 3rd cousins of the Casillas clan, which is also very interesting. Another interesting note, I read in a study that when the Visgoths migrated out of there original homeland, one of the stops they made before ending up in Spain was the Balkans, where my DNA Haplogroup is found in high numbers. It's also noted via historical evidence that other non gothic groups joined them on their migrations, such as the Alans, who were a Samartian \ Scythic people. Who knows ? maybe some Thracians did the same and that's how my DNA ended up in Spain ? Thanks for your great post ! Robert Gonzalez ~
Here is the link to a PDF I talked about in a previous link, It's very informative. Check it out: sd-1.archive-host.com/membres/up/.../ThegeneticlegacyallGraphs.pdf
Robert, the link info was cut out in the middle. The complete link is http://sd-1.archive-host.com/membres/up/134696768219527874/ThegeneticlegacyallGraphs.pdf
It is a good map with good pie charts but it lacks an explanation of the data.
El enlace al mapa de ADN en España faltaba "134696768219527874" asi que la dirección completa es http://sd-1.archive-host.com/membres/up/134696768219527874/ThegeneticlegacyallGraphs.pdf
Es un buen mapa con gráficas circulares aun falta una explicación de la información.
Armando
Hey Mando, Thanks for fixing the link ! The chart shows the frequency of specific haplotypes in the different regions of Spain. The last bigger pie graph at the bottom shows the haplotypes associated with Sephardic heritage by percentage in the countries of Spain,Portugal, Greece ,Bulgaria etc. As you can see, the most frequent haplotypes associated with Jewish heritage are J2,J and G...followed by R1b. Does this mean that everyone who has these haplotypes are Jewish ? Absolutely not... just as it doesn't mean that there are no Jewish E1b1b's. The specific E subclade assosiated with the Sephardim is V-22. Thanks ! Robert~
Hi Robert,
We most be related, my grandma's last name is Casillas, from Los Altos, Alcala Casillas. Your paragraph seems to describe what I have from my mom about her family.
Gabriela
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:11:39 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y DNA \ Los Altos
>
> Hi Mendez, very interesting post. I've never had the pleasure of visiting my father's birthplace, San Jose De Bazarte in Los Altos. My great grandfather is buried under the alter in the small church there, from what I hear my family were haciendados who were one of the first spanish familes to settle there. I have pictures of them and they were all tall, blonde haired and blue eyed except for my grandfather who was tall, but had jet black hair. They were all horsemen, as many in Los Altos are, according to my grandmother, the Gonzalez's lived in the saddle.
>
> They did also intermarry with their 2nd and 3rd cousins of the Casillas clan, which is also very interesting. Another interesting note, I read in a study that when the Visgoths migrated out of there original homeland, one of the stops they made before ending up in Spain was the Balkans, where my DNA Haplogroup is found in high numbers. It's also noted via historical evidence that other non gothic groups joined them on their migrations, such as the Alans, who were a Samartian \ Scythic people. Who knows ? maybe some Thracians did the same and that's how my DNA ended up in Spain ? Thanks for your great post ! Robert Gonzalez ~
Hi Gabriela and Robert, I am also Casillas y Cabrera, HAHA, everyone is related after all this time. Wonder how they started, did the first families meet and just decided "Let marry each other". Ive always had the curiosity. -Daniel
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Hi Gabriela, you never know ! We could be related ! I worked construction with a man from Jalisco, he said that all the altenos were related in one way or another,he also said everyone in the state of Jalisco knew that those from Los Altos were gauchupines \ Spaniards or Europeans. Hope I spelled that right ! What part of Los Altos is your family from ? regards, Robert~
We have to be careful with that word, not sure if that man said that word but Gauchupines in Mexico is the quivalent of saying "stupid white person". I know many people would get offended if called that, I know I would. It was a word to discriminate against Mexicans of European descent. As to the alteñs, yes everyone is related, ca. 1602 is when everyone starting intermarrying. Little did they know that within 50-100 years everyone wiould be related, creating a really small gene pool. Thus not having much hcance of marrying someone out from your blood. -Daniel
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 15:39:28 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y DNA \ Gonzalez \ Casillas
>
> Hi Gabriela, you never know ! We could be related ! I worked construction with a man from Jalisco, he said that all the altenos were related in one way or another,he also said everyone in the state of Jalisco knew that those from Los Altos were gauchupines \ Spaniards or Europeans. Hope I spelled that right ! What part of Los Altos is your family from ? regards, Robert~
Hi Daniel, He knew exactly what the word ment, although he said it with a smile on his face . He felt that Altenos were a bit too haughty for is taste , too proud. I'm not familar with the way people from the different states or pueblos of Mexico interact with each other, but I've learned some since then. Robert ~
Hey Daniel:
I was born, raised in Mexico til' I was about ten, and then again as an
adult, I lived in Mexico for ten years. My experience is that the word "
Gachupin" was used exclusively for Spanish people. Not used for all "white"
people as you state, there are other names for them, not very nice, I might
add.
A quick look on the internet will give you the following definitions:
1.Gachupin=Spanish established in Mexico or Guatemala.
2.Name given in Mexico to a native of Spain, who in Lima is called
"Chapeton", and in Buenos Aires, "Maturrango" (SpanishDict.com)
Google and Yahoo both, translate it as Gachupin=Gachupin
3.Oxford Spanish Dictionary, Third Edition:
"Gachupin" m (Mex pey) Spaniard.
My note: "pey" above stands for perjorative.
In Sonora we had a friend from Oviedo and he told me that in Spain gachupin
meant "horseman" I have no idea how true that is, but I had no reason to
doubt him.
Ask your grandfather, he'll probably knows the origin of the word.
John Gonzalez.
Hey Primo, That's what I always thought, gauchpin referes to the Spaniards, it seems to refer to their spurs, or a corruption of the word the indigenous peoples used for spur, so yes, it eludes to them being horsemen.
Más definiciones de gachupín, coincidentes todas.
Gachupin, Cachupín. Español establecido en América. [Diccionario de la Lengua Española. 21era. edición. Real Academia Española. Madrid, 1992]
Gachupín, na. (del mexicano cactli: zapato, y tzopina: punzar, picar) Español, el natural de la península española. [Diccionario de americanismos. 3ra. edición. Augusto Malaret. Emecé Editores. Buenos Aires, 1946]
Gachupín. Nombre dado en México a los españoles. [Diccionario de Aztequismos. Antonio Robelo. México, 1904]
En México se usa, actualmente y las más de las veces, en sentido peyorativo. He aquí un refrán (anotado por Malaret): "Gachupín en hacienda, siempre contienda".
Y con el mismo sentido, unos versos (anotados por Robelo):
"Hoy en México a nosotros
Nos tratan ya con cariño,
Pues en vez de gachupines
Nos llaman gachupincitos."
Sin ánimo de contender, en México no se ha elegido aún a ningún afroamericano como presidente de la república tal como recién acaba de ocurrir en Estados Unidos pero, sí a un 'afromexicano': Guadalupe Victoria, el segundo presidente mexicano. E indígenas, al menos dos: Benito Juárez y Porfirio Díaz. Finalmente, presidentes mestizos (no white, pues) los hay a montón, incluyendo a los anteriores.
Saludos.
Luis
PD: John, el significado de gachupín como jinete (horseman), que te dió tu amigo español en Sonora, tiene sentido con la raiz azteca de la palabra que da Malaret (Robelo, por supuesto, también lo anota): ESPUELA (zapato que pica) asociada a los españoles, únicos jinetes durante la conquista.
Gracias para el verso. Me recordaba de los dichos chistosos de mi abuelo.
Gachupin era una palabra nueva para mi. Consulte con mi experto personal de
espanol--mi padre--el me dice que esa palabra es mas como "pocho" en nivel
de peyorativismo, en vez de "gringo", que tenga menos.
In Colonial Mexico, a *gachupin* was a person born to two Spaniards in
Mexico. This was to differentiate them from the *peninsulares *or
Spaniards born in Spain who monopolized the higher government offices. Just
being born in Mexico made them somehow inferior to the Spanish born. This
was the class that eventually fomented the War of Independance against the
Spanish in the 1820s
But what do I know, to my Mexico City relatives, my grandfather and us are
just a bunch of
*gabachos*!
Eric Robledo Edgar
On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 6:33 PM, John Gonzalez <1gnzlz@verizon.net> wrote:
> Hey Daniel:
>
> I was born, raised in Mexico til' I was about ten, and then again as an
> adult, I lived in Mexico for ten years. My experience is that the word "
> Gachupin" was used exclusively for Spanish people. Not used for all "white"
> people as you state, there are other names for them, not very nice, I might
> add.
>
> A quick look on the internet will give you the following definitions:
>
> 1.Gachupin=Spanish established in Mexico or Guatemala.
>
> 2.Name given in Mexico to a native of Spain, who in Lima is called
> "Chapeton", and in Buenos Aires, "Maturrango" (SpanishDict.com)
> Google and Yahoo both, translate it as Gachupin=Gachupin
> 3.Oxford Spanish Dictionary, Third Edition:
> "Gachupin" m (Mex pey) Spaniard.
>
> My note: "pey" above stands for perjorative.
>
> In Sonora we had a friend from Oviedo and he told me that in Spain gachupin
> meant "horseman" I have no idea how true that is, but I had no reason to
> doubt him.
>
> Ask your grandfather, he'll probably knows the origin of the word.
>
> John Gonzalez.
>
>
>
>
>
hola,
"Gachupin" is to spanish people the same that "gringo" is to americans
2009/7/6 Daniel M�ndez del Camino
>
> We have to be careful with that word, not sure if that man said that word
> but Gauchupines in Mexico is the quivalent of saying "stupid white person".
> I know many people would get offended if called that, I know I would. It was
> a word to discriminate against Mexicans of European descent. As to the
> alteñs, yes everyone is related, ca. 1602 is when everyone starting
> intermarrying. Little did they know that within 50-100 years everyone wiould
> be related, creating a really small gene pool. Thus not having much hcance
> of marrying someone out from your blood. -Daniel
>
> > To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
> > Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 15:39:28 -0700
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y DNA \ Gonzalez \ Casillas
> >
> > Hi Gabriela, you never know ! We could be related ! I worked construction
> with a man from Jalisco, he said that all the altenos were related in one
> way or another,he also said everyone in the state of Jalisco knew that those
> from Los Altos were gauchupines \ Spaniards or Europeans. Hope I spelled
> that right ! What part of Los Altos is your family from ? regards, Robert~
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of
> your life
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/
You're right about the word Gauchupines, when I was in Jerez someone used it and it was as a put down. I did find it interesting that prejudice exists in Mexico just as in other countries. I guess the feelings against the original Spaniards are alive and well after 500 years but oppression is hard to get by and has a long memory.
Linda in B.C.
--- On Mon, 7/6/09, Daniel M�ndez del Camino wrote:
From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y DNA \ Gonzalez \ Casillas
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 4:23 PM
We have to be careful with that word, not sure if that man said that word but Gauchupines in Mexico is the quivalent of saying "stupid white person". I know many people would get offended if called that, I know I would. It was a word to discriminate against Mexicans of European descent. As to the alteñs, yes everyone is related, ca. 1602 is when everyone starting intermarrying. Little did they know that within 50-100 years everyone wiould be related, creating a really small gene pool. Thus not having much hcance of marrying someone out from your blood. -Daniel
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 15:39:28 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y DNA \ Gonzalez \ Casillas
>
> Hi Gabriela, you never know ! We could be related ! I worked construction with a man from Jalisco, he said that all the altenos were related in one way or another,he also said everyone in the state of Jalisco knew that those from Los Altos were gauchupines \ Spaniards or Europeans. Hope I spelled that right ! What part of Los Altos is your family from ? regards, Robert~
I thought Limpieza de Sangre meant that seminarians had to prove they had no Muslim or Jewish blood before they were allowed to take holy orders. I guess at first only Europeans were allowed to be priests? I see that there are microfilms of records of those proceedings. In Mexico, you have many Indio or Mestizo priests, not just white priests. By what date was that Limpieza de Sangre business put to rest officially?
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
The Visigoths still exist today, in Spain and Spanish America. Spaniards are a mixture of Europeans, Celtic, Goth (Germanic) Suevic, Nordic and many more. The south tends to exist the Jewish and Arabic connection. While the north tends to be more of that Catholic blood. Essentially the Spaniards of today are the visigoths of the past. Limpieza de Sangre is a difficult thing to explain at times and very harsh to hear, essentially its to 'whiten' oneself and their descendants. This usually happened when a mestizo child (that of a European and Native American) essentially that Mestizo would marry white to make a castizo and then castizo married white again to make full European, hiding its Native American genes, from then on they would keep marrying other Spanish. If a mestizo would come along one day the whole process would repeat. A perfect example of Limpirza de Sangre would be our Moctezuma connection, Isabel married Hernan Cortes, Leonor married Valderrama, then Petronila married Navarro, who had Ana Franca. then he married Lope Esparza. By this time, no one would ever guess they would have descended from Moctezuma, as they would have looked like the average European child. It just shows the stuff our ancestors did to crazy extremes. Actuall a saying of Los Altos states, us alteños as los 'Godos'.
"Son los de este pueblo (Los Altos de Jalisco)
de sangre de godos
todos son parientes,
y enemigos todos."
MAriano Gonzalez Leal startes talking about the alteños and their noble ancestors that of the Visigoths and the Hidalgos. The amazing book he wrote is dedicated to Los Altos.
_________________________________________________________________
See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/
Un comentario a todos los compañeros, no todos entendemos el ingles, de tal manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y datos que aportar a los distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian tambien escribirlos en español y asi aumentar el numero de participantes en las discuciones.
Saludos cordiales
Antonio Santillan
> From: auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:17:46 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
>
> I thought Limpieza de Sangre meant that seminarians had to prove they had no Muslim or Jewish blood before they were allowed to take holy orders. I guess at first only Europeans were allowed to be priests? I see that there are microfilms of records of those proceedings. In Mexico, you have many Indio or Mestizo priests, not just white priests. By what date was that Limpieza de Sangre business put to rest officially?
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 10:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
>
>
>
> The Visigoths still exist today, in Spain and Spanish America. Spaniards are a mixture of Europeans, Celtic, Goth (Germanic) Suevic, Nordic and many more. The south tends to exist the Jewish and Arabic connection. While the north tends to be more of that Catholic blood. Essentially the Spaniards of today are the visigoths of the past. Limpieza de Sangre is a difficult thing to explain at times and very harsh to hear, essentially its to 'whiten' oneself and their descendants. This usually happened when a mestizo child (that of a European and Native American) essentially that Mestizo would marry white to make a castizo and then castizo married white again to make full European, hiding its Native American genes, from then on they would keep marrying other Spanish. If a mestizo would come along one day the whole process would repeat. A perfect example of Limpirza de Sangre would be our Moctezuma connection, Isabel married Hernan Cortes, Leonor married Valderrama, then Petronila married Navarro, who had Ana Franca. then he married Lope Esparza. By this time, no one would ever guess they would have descended from Moctezuma, as they would have looked like the average European child. It just shows the stuff our ancestors did to crazy extremes. Actuall a saying of Los Altos states, us alteños as los 'Godos'.
>
>
>
> "Son los de este pueblo (Los Altos de Jalisco)
>
> de sangre de godos
>
> todos son parientes,
>
> y enemigos todos."
>
>
>
> MAriano Gonzalez Leal startes talking about the alteños and their noble ancestors that of the Visigoths and the Hidalgos. The amazing book he wrote is dedicated to Los Altos.
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/
I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though
my father was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except
when he and my mother had secrets not for children's ears). It is
difficult to follow everything on this list unless a person is
bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a translating angel who
would magically translate all the emails into both Spanish and
English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests
us. Valuable information would not be missed.
Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.
Linda
On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
wrote:
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000
> From: Antonio Santillan
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
> To:
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el
> ingles, de tal manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y
> datos que aportar a los distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian
> tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y asi aumentar el numero de
> participantes en las discuciones.
>
>
>
> Saludos cordiales
>
>
>
> Antonio Santillan
>
Linda,
why forbidden?
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 3, 2009 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though my father was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except when he and my mother had secrets not for children's ears). It is difficult to follow everything on this list unless a person is bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a translating angel who would magically translate all the emails into both Spanish and English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests us. Valuable information would not be missed.?
?
Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.?
?
Linda?
?
On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:?
?
> Message: 3?
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000?
> From: Antonio Santillan ?
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews?
> To: ?
> Message-ID: ?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"?
>?
>?
> Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el > ingles, de tal manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y > datos que aportar a los distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian > tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y asi aumentar el numero de > participantes en las discuciones.?
>?
>?
>?
> Saludos cordiales?
>?
>?
>?
> Antonio Santillan?
>?
?
I'm a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish unless it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us," you're an American so speak English!) I know that they thought they were helping us to fit by not having a Spanish accent when we spoke English. Our town was very divided racially and all any parents want's is the best avenue for their children so I'm not angry or fell cheated. I did take it in high school but found when you don't use it you loose it! When I went to Mexico they laughed at my slow broken Spanish but appreciated that I did try. My family immigrated in 1916 from Jerez and both grandparents became citizens and spoke English to all the grandchildren.
LInda in B.C.
--- On Fri, 7/3/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:
From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:11 PM
Linda,
why forbidden?
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 3, 2009 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though my father was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except when he and my mother had secrets not for children's ears). It is difficult to follow everything on this list unless a person is bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a translating angel who would magically translate all the emails into both Spanish and English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests us. Valuable information would not be missed.?
?
Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.?
?
Linda?
?
On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:?
?
> Message: 3?
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000?
> From: Antonio Santillan ?
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews?
> To: ?
> Message-ID: ?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"?
>?
>?
> Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el > ingles, de tal manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y > datos que aportar a los distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian > tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y asi aumentar el numero de > participantes en las discuciones.?
>?
>?
>?
> Saludos cordiales?
>?
>?
>?
> Antonio Santillan?
>?
?
That's funny.
I'm glad I've broken that tradition. The problem now, I feel guilty using it, and slow learning..
That langauge just won't stayed. Gosh! When visiting Mexico, people notice my problem.
They alway pointed out "What's your last name again? And I respond by speaking in German.
I get the last laugh seeing their lost expression!!
My elder said, no Spainish. But they didnt say "no" to other langauges.
Keep trying...
Robert R P25+
P.S..> http://www.euroresidentes.com/translation/spanish_english_translation.h…
________________________________
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 3, 2009 6:25:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I'm a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish unless it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us," you're an American so speak English!) I know that they thought they were helping us to fit by not having a Spanish accent when we spoke English. Our town was very divided racially and all any parents want's is the best avenue for their children so I'm not angry or fell cheated. I did take it in high school but found when you don't use it you loose it! When I went to Mexico they laughed at my slow broken Spanish but appreciated that I did try. My family immigrated in 1916 from Jerez and both grandparents became citizens and spoke English to all the grandchildren.
LInda in B.C.
--- On Fri, 7/3/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:
From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:11 PM
Linda,
why forbidden?
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 3, 2009 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though my father was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except when he and my mother had secrets not for children's ears). It is difficult to follow everything on this list unless a person is bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a translating angel who would magically translate all the emails into both Spanish and English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests us. Valuable information would not be missed.?
?
Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.?
?
Linda?
?
On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:?
?
> Message: 3?
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000?
> From: Antonio Santillan ?
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews?
> To: ?
> Message-ID: ?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"?
>?
>?
> Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el > ingles, de tal manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y > datos que aportar a los distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian > tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y asi aumentar el numero de > participantes en las discuciones.?
>?
>?
>?
> Saludos cordiales?
>?
>?
>?
> Antonio Santillan?
>?
?
The primary and secondary language issue is complex. Both my parents are from Mexico, however, my first language was English, yet I am bilingual. When they immigrated to the US in the late 1940's they moved into the "anglo" side of town for the better schools and witnessed the difficulty my older brother had and vowed they would try to make life easier for me when I was born 15 years later. They spoke to me primarily in English, but continued to use Spanish amongst themselves. My MA is in second language acquisiton and learning, and I now know why it worked. At any time in our lives we all acquire language in the same process: listening, understanding, and speaking. I didn't speak Spanish until I was about 18 because of the lack of necessity and opportunity in my neighborhood and educational situation. However, when I decided to make the effort to speak Spanish, it did come and I am able to speak both languages without an accent. So you don't necessarily lose it if you don't use, it can lay "dormant" in the brain until awakened. Literacy is a whole other animal. You have to teach yourself or be taught to read and write. ABB
--- longsjourney@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 17:25:34 -0700 (PDT)
I'm a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish unless it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us," you're an American so speak English!) I know that they thought they were helping us to fit by not having a Spanish accent when we spoke English. Our town was very divided racially and all any parents want's is the best avenue for their children so I'm not angry or fell cheated. I did take it in high school but found when you don't use it you loose it! When I went to Mexico they laughed at my slow broken Spanish but appreciated that I did try. My family immigrated in 1916 from Jerez and both grandparents became citizens and spoke English to all the grandchildren.
LInda in B.C.
--- On Fri, 7/3/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:
From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:11 PM
Linda,
why forbidden?
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 3, 2009 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though my father was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except when he and my mother had secrets not for children's ears). It is difficult to follow everything on this list unless a person is bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a translating angel who would magically translate all the emails into both Spanish and English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests us. Valuable information would not be missed.?
?
Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.?
?
Linda?
?
On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:?
?
> Message: 3?
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000?
> From: Antonio Santillan ?
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews?
> To: ?
> Message-ID: ?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"?
>?
>?
> Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el > ingles, de tal manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y > datos que aportar a los distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian > tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y asi aumentar el numero de > participantes en las discuciones.?
>?
>?
>?
> Saludos cordiales?
>?
>?
>?
> Antonio Santillan?
>?
?
My house was different...my daddy was a white and mom from totatiche mexico.....mom spoke no english and dad spoke no spanish (few words here and there).......my sister and I are both fully bilingual.........but now using english more and speaking spanish only when I am at work or with my mom........I feel I am just losing my spanish....?????? :-(
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: AliceBB
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 9:04 am
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
The primary and secondary language issue is complex. Both my parents are from
Mexico, however, my first language was English, yet I am bilingual. When they
immigrated to the US in the late 1940's they moved into the "anglo" side of town
for the better schools and witnessed the difficulty my older brother had and
vowed they would try to make life easier for me when I was born 15 years later.
They spoke to me primarily in English, but continued to use Spanish amongst
themselves. My MA is in second language acquisiton and learning, and I now know
why it worked. At any time in our lives we all acquire language in the same
process: listening, understanding, and speaking. I didn't speak Spanish until I
was about 18 because of the lack of necessity and opportunity in my neighborhood
and educational situation. However, when I decided to make the effort to speak
Spanish, it did come and I am able to speak both languages without an accent.
So you don't necessarily lose it if you don't use, it can lay "dormant" in the
brain until awakened. Literacy is a whole other animal. You have to teach
yourself or be taught to read and write. ABB
--- longsjourney@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 17:25:34 -0700 (PDT)
I'm a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish unless
it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us," you're an American so speak
English!)? I know that they thought they were helping us to fit by not having a
Spanish accent when we spoke English.? Our town was very divided racially and
all any parents want's is the best avenue for their children so I'm not angry or
fell cheated.? I did take it in high school but found when you don't use it you
loose it!? When I went to Mexico they laughed at my slow broken Spanish but
appreciated that I did try.? My family immigrated in 1916 from Jerez and both
grandparents became ci
tizens and spoke English to all the grandchildren.
?
LInda in B.C.
--- On Fri, 7/3/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:
From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:11 PM
Linda,
why forbidden?
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 3, 2009 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though my father
was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except when he and my mother
had secrets not for children's ears). It is difficult to follow everything on
this list unless a person is bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a
translating angel who would magically translate all the emails into both Spanish
and English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests us.
Valuable information would not be missed.?
?
Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.?
?
Linda?
?
On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:?
?
> Message: 3?
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000?
> From: Antonio Santillan ?
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews?
> To: ?
> Message-ID: ?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"?
>?
>?
> Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el > ingles, de tal
manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y > datos que aportar a los
distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian > tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y asi
aumentar el numero de > participantes en las discuciones.?
>?
>?
>?
> Saludos cordiales?
>?
>?
>?
> Antonio Santillan?
>?
?
Its ironic...My family has been in the States for 3 born generations(and the
crossover generation before that). My grandparents, first generation(at
least..on my grandma's side..dunno much about my grandfather's side) born
here, speak/spoke it but also are native english speakers. My mother and my
aunts/uncles all were taught English and didn't learn Spanish(for those that
know it now) until high-school or college or just curiosity as adults. As
far as my mother goes, she has some understanding ability but no speaking
ability whatsoever. She's as bleached as they come. Myself and my brothers
have learned Spanish only through high-school, although I personally took
only 2 years and have a very weak vocabulary and crippled grammar. In
university, I took up the study of Hebrew instead of continuing with
Spanish(and its funny because I'm in San Diego).......When intoxicated I
tend to randomly pick either tongue to express myself, sometimes both.
As for the topic of Jewish DNA....I'm currently studying potential links to
Sephardim and the Conversos/Marranos in Zacatecas. Its hard because the 3
epicenters of Jews in Mexico at any given era where they were present would
be Guadalajara(Jalisco), Monterrey (Nuevo Leon), and Mexico City (DF),
though I know quite a few Jews from TJ and around here too. Zacatecas is a
middle-ground for all 3 of those..........Given how by name, some of my
family names come up as Sephardic, and how my family are as referred to in
some of the e-mails here "Norteno"(lighter features,etc.) and come from an
oral history of European roots(Spanish and French), this topic has great
personal interest. Currently pending is a FamilyTree DNA test(Y-37 and
mtDNA..but only my mtDNA is Mexican) so I'll see whether my suspicions are
correct.
That said...Don't be ashamed or offended if your ancestors aren't
"Visigoths". The Sephardim contributed a great deal and financed the
expeditions. It is because of them that Spain had fulfilled and realized
its' potential to become a dominant power....My ancestor on my father's side
is supposedly one of the chief financiers of Columbus before the Expulsion
forced them out. Look up Meir Melamed and the Abarbanels. Without that
money, there is not so much likelihood that they would've sent out
colonizing parties when they did. No colonies or plunder = no economy = no
Spain. If your ancestors are Berbers, they also contributed to Spain(Muslim
Spain was supposed to be more advanced scientifically and socially).
On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:40 PM, wrote:
> My house was different...my daddy was a white and mom from totatiche
> mexico.....mom spoke no english and dad spoke no spanish (few words here and
> there).......my sister and I are both fully bilingual.........but now using
> english more and speaking spanish only when I am at work or with my
> mom........I feel I am just losing my spanish....?????? :-(
> Stella
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AliceBB
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 9:04 am
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
>
>
>
> The primary and secondary language issue is complex. Both my parents are
> from
> Mexico, however, my first language was English, yet I am bilingual. When
> they
> immigrated to the US in the late 1940's they moved into the "anglo" side of
> town
> for the better schools and witnessed the difficulty my older brother had
> and
> vowed they would try to make life easier for me when I was born 15 years
> later.
> They spoke to me primarily in English, but continued to use Spanish amongst
> themselves. My MA is in second language acquisiton and learning, and I now
> know
> why it worked. At any time in our lives we all acquire language in the
> same
> process: listening, understanding, and speaking. I didn't speak Spanish
> until I
> was about 18 because of the lack of necessity and opportunity in my
> neighborhood
> and educational situation. However, when I decided to make the effort to
> speak
> Spanish, it did come and I am able to speak both languages without an
> accent.
> So you don't necessarily lose it if you don't use, it can lay "dormant" in
> the
> brain until awakened. Literacy is a whole other animal. You have to teach
> yourself or be taught to read and write. ABB
>
> --- longsjourney@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 17:25:34 -0700 (PDT)
>
> I'm a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish
> unless
> it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us," you're an American so
> speak
> English!)? I know that they thought they were helping us to fit by not
> having a
> Spanish accent when we spoke English.? Our town was very divided racially
> and
> all any parents want's is the best avenue for their children so I'm not
> angry or
> fell cheated.? I did take it in high school but found when you don't use it
> you
> loose it!? When I went to Mexico they laughed at my slow broken Spanish but
> appreciated that I did try.? My family immigrated in 1916 from Jerez and
> both
> grandparents became ci
> tizens and spoke English to all the grandchildren.
> ?
> LInda in B.C.
>
> --- On Fri, 7/3/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> From: sjlstar@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:11 PM
>
>
> Linda,
> why forbidden?
> Stella
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linda
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Fri, Jul 3, 2009 3:57 pm
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
>
>
> I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though my
> father
> was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except when he and my
> mother
> had secrets not for children's ears). It is difficult to follow everything
> on
> this list unless a person is bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a
> translating angel who would magically translate all the emails into both
> Spanish
> and English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests
> us.
> Valuable information would not be missed.?
> ?
> Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.?
> ?
> Linda?
> ?
> On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgwrote:?
> ?
> > Message: 3?
> > Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000?
> > From: Antonio Santillan ?
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews?
> > To: ?
> > Message-ID: ?
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"?
> >?
> >?
> > Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el > ingles, de
> tal
> manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y > datos que aportar a los
> distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian > tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y
> asi
> aumentar el numero de > participantes en las discuciones.?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > Saludos cordiales?
> >?
> >?
> >?
> > Antonio Santillan?
> >?
> ?
Linda,
My Dad was also from Jerez, and he would have liked his children to speak Spanish, but my mother was a Native of New Mexico, and they spoke a dialect all their own that my father did not like and that Mexicans made fun of, so we preferred English to get ahead faster as Americans. We just did not need Spanish, anymore than most Mexicans have no need to learn English.
I don't see the problem with using the online translation services. When I use those to translate from Spanish to English, it is like a robot speaking, the syntax is weird, but at least I get the gist of what is being said.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I'm a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish unless it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us," you're an American so speak English!) I know that they thought they were helping us to fit by not having a Spanish accent when we spoke English. Our town was very divided racially and all any parents want's is the best avenue for their children so I'm not angry or fell cheated. I did take it in high school but found when you don't use it you loose it! When I went to Mexico they laughed at my slow broken Spanish but appreciated that I did try. My family immigrated in 1916 from Jerez and both grandparents became citizens and spoke English to all the grandchildren.
LInda in B.C.
--- On Fri, 7/3/09, sjlstar@aol.com > wrote:
From: sjlstar@aol.com >
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:11 PM
Linda,
why forbidden?
Stella
HaHa, my step grandmother is from New Mexico, I love her Spanish, New Mexico Spanish sounds kinda like Spanish from Los Altos de Jalisco, its like my grandpa says, "así es como nos quedo" referring the majority of Spanish blood in Los Altos, so oviously how they spoke reflects how we speak today. Its possible another reason why New Mexico sounds like Los Altos, because they received large number of alteños. It has a ring or whistle thingy, not sure how to describe it. Her family is one of the oldest families who settled New Mexico, "de Durán y Chávez."
-Daniel
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Yes, it could be that people who were isolated in the earlier centuries like the New Mexicans were, and maybe in the Altos too, continued to speak Spanish the way it was spoken in earlier times. My friend from Spain told me that my mother used words that she knew were from the 18th century, and they did speak in a nasally tone, and skipped some consonents--for example, they would say "hequia" for hacequia (ditch?) and words ending in "ado" were pronounced as "ao".
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews/Spanish Language
HaHa, my step grandmother is from New Mexico, I love her Spanish, New Mexico Spanish sounds kinda like Spanish from Los Altos de Jalisco, its like my grandpa says, "así es como nos quedo" referring the majority of Spanish blood in Los Altos, so oviously how they spoke reflects how we speak today. Its possible another reason why New Mexico sounds like Los Altos, because they received large number of alteños. It has a ring or whistle thingy, not sure how to describe it. Her family is one of the oldest families who settled New Mexico, "de Durán y Chávez."
-Daniel
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I found this thread very interesting to read. I myself do not speak spanish even though my parents did (mostly talking about us kids at the dinner table) I understand a few words here and there, but not much. It surprised me to learn that my mothers father who was from the old Californio families was not raised speaking spanish until he met my grandmother who was from Durangom, Mexico.
I was born and raised in the eastern part of Los Angeles county and my father did not want his children to learn spanish for fear we would be discriminated against. We did not live in the barrio like my grandparents (my Los Altos ancestors), but on the north end of town in a middle class neighborhood, in an all Caucasian neighborhood. I have heard stories regarding my great uncles who applied for work with the county of L.A. and were not hired due to their ethic background. The 1930's was also a time in this county where Mexican/Americans were being deported to Mexico even though they were born in the U.S. as were their parents....they were bascially deported because they were dark Mexicans. Some cousins that I know of who were light-skinned Mexicians claiming they came from Spain just so that they would not be deported.
I just wanted to add my little story.
And by the way, I did my DNA about 2 years ago and belong to Haplo group C. Very interesting stuff.
Rose
Hi Linda, Emile, Alice et al.
I am shocked and interested in this new topic, ive been following it. My parents, always told me to speak Spanish, no questions. I was able to learn English just fine, like any other 5 year old, you catch it once you begin to hear it. My mother always told me its okay to Americanize but never abandon your mother tongue. I even sound like I was born in Mexico, I was able to get my parents' 'accent'. I am grateful to my parents who gave the most beautiful language in the world, wouldnt change it for nothing, I learned to love spanish and use it. I always use it any chance I have which raises eyebrows sometimes. I think we all a number of stories.
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
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Hi Daniel, I translated (Babelfish) for you.. it kinda makes you smile..
"Me dan una sacudida eléctrica y están interesado en este nuevo asunto, ive que lo sigue. Mis padres, siempre dichos me para hablar español, ningunas preguntas. Podía aprender la multa del inglés apenas, como cualquier otro 5 años, usted la cojo una vez que usted comienza a oírla. Mi madre siempre me dijo su autorización Americanize pero nunca abandonar su lengua materna. I incluso suena como mí nació en México, yo podía conseguir mi parents' ' accent'. Soy agradecido a mis padres que dieron la lengua más hermosa del mundo, no lo cambiaría para nada, aprendí amar español y utilizarlo. Lo utilizo siempre cualquier ocasión que tenga que levanta las cejas a veces. Nos pienso todas un número de historias."
--- On Sat, 7/4/09, Daniel M�ndez del Camino wrote:
From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews/Spanish Language
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 11:51 AM
Hi Linda, Emile, Alice et al.
I am shocked and interested in this new topic, ive been following it. My parents, always told me to speak Spanish, no questions. I was able to learn English just fine, like any other 5 year old, you catch it once you begin to hear it. My mother always told me its okay to Americanize but never abandon your mother tongue. I even sound like I was born in Mexico, I was able to get my parents' 'accent'. I am grateful to my parents who gave the most beautiful language in the world, wouldnt change it for nothing, I learned to love spanish and use it. I always use it any chance I have which raises eyebrows sometimes. I think we all a number of stories.
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
_________________________________________________________________
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Wow this does make you laugh, I sort of understand it, the only thing I dont like about Translators is it gives a literal translation. Me dan una sacudida eléctrica actually says im being shocked literally instead of being shocked mentally. HAHAHA, Daniel
> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 12:53:11 -0700
> From: longsjourney@yahoo.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews/Spanish Language
>
> Hi Daniel, I translated (Babelfish) for you.. it kinda makes you smile..
>
> "Me dan una sacudida eléctrica y están interesado en este nuevo asunto, ive que lo sigue. Mis padres, siempre dichos me para hablar español, ningunas preguntas. Podía aprender la multa del inglés apenas, como cualquier otro 5 años, usted la cojo una vez que usted comienza a oírla. Mi madre siempre me dijo su autorización Americanize pero nunca abandonar su lengua materna. I incluso suena como mí nació en México, yo podía conseguir mi parents' ' accent'. Soy agradecido a mis padres que dieron la lengua más hermosa del mundo, no lo cambiaría para nada, aprendí amar español y utilizarlo. Lo utilizo siempre cualquier ocasión que tenga que levanta las cejas a veces. Nos pienso todas un número de historias."
>
> --- On Sat, 7/4/09, Daniel M�ndez del Camino wrote:
>
>
> From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews/Spanish Language
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 11:51 AM
>
>
>
> Hi Linda, Emile, Alice et al.
>
>
> I am shocked and interested in this new topic, ive been following it. My parents, always told me to speak Spanish, no questions. I was able to learn English just fine, like any other 5 year old, you catch it once you begin to hear it. My mother always told me its okay to Americanize but never abandon your mother tongue. I even sound like I was born in Mexico, I was able to get my parents' 'accent'. I am grateful to my parents who gave the most beautiful language in the world, wouldnt change it for nothing, I learned to love spanish and use it. I always use it any chance I have which raises eyebrows sometimes. I think we all a number of stories.
>
>
>
> -Daniel Méndez del Camino
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/
I believe I mentioned, I never lost Spanish, just as a child had no practical use for it. By the time I attended UT I was able to place out of 21 hours of Spanish with a perfect score, so the language was there, only under utilized. This being an English-speaking nation, and English being one of the most sought after languages in the world for socio-economical reasons, I believe my parents absolutely did the right thing. They came to the US, as most people do, for its economic opportunities. I'd find it shocking if they had allowed me to enter school with an English language deficiency that would place me behind, as my older brother was. They never told me I couldn't or shouldn't speak Spanish, they wanted me to start my education here competing on a level playing field with regards to English. I'm sure that you're aware that at that time, being bilingual was not something that was particularly sought after here. It's funny that although my first language was English, culturally, I knew few expressions and idioms because my parents didn't know them. It took me many years to learn them, whereas, it's the "dichos" I can rattle off. ABB
From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews/Spanish Language
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 11:51:27 -0700
Hi Linda, Emile, Alice et al.
I am shocked and interested in this new topic, ive been following it. My parents, always told me to speak Spanish, no questions. I was able to learn English just fine, like any other 5 year old, you catch it once you begin to hear it. My mother always told me its okay to Americanize but never abandon your mother tongue. I even sound like I was born in Mexico, I was able to get my parents' 'accent'. I am grateful to my parents who gave the most beautiful language in the world, wouldnt change it for nothing, I learned to love spanish and use it. I always use it any chance I have which raises eyebrows sometimes. I think we all a number of stories.
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
_________________________________________________________________
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Hi all,
Don't be surprised that many of us "older" first generation Americans
don't speak our parents mother tongue. My father was born in
Tepatitlan de Morelos in 1909. That was 100 years ago with 100 years
ago attitudes. He came to the States in 1923, following his older
brother who came a few years earlier. His brother settled in the
"Mexican neighborhood" of Milwaukee. My father raised his family in
the "Polish neighborhood". My father and his sister both married
Anglos, his brother married a Mexican. Dad told stories about his
family back in Mexico but most of the stories were fabricated. One
example was that his father or grandfather came from Spain. I've
traced his direct male ancestors back to around 1820 and they were
all born in Tepatitlan. So much for his pride in his heritage. It
was the "old way." As you can guess by my father's age, I am not a
spring chicken and learning a new language is not easy. I've picked
up enough to read the Baptismos, etc., but not enough to follow the
Spanish threads on this list. As someone earlier mentioned, the
translators available online make for comical reading.
I love my heritage and wish I knew more about it. I am trying, but
it is slow going. I would like to find a fellow researcher who is
interested in Tepatitlan. I get help when necessary, but it's not
the same as having a research buddy who is bilingual.
Good luck to you all in your research. One day I may learn more
Spanish. Until then, the bilingual translations on this list are
great when they are there.
Linda Romero
hi linda,
I am about to start my research for my Tepatitlan branch, I am going to look
for the marriges file of 1854, so I am almost sure I will be looking for the
film of bautisms you need, give me the exact data cross your fingers and
I´ll tell you my findings.
Well, my english is not quite good, I hope you undestand me, if you or
someone else need translation, and you settle with my english I will be glad
on doing it.
Patty Haro
On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Linda wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Don't be surprised that many of us "older" first generation Americans don't
> speak our parents mother tongue. My father was born in Tepatitlan de
> Morelos in 1909. That was 100 years ago with 100 years ago attitudes. He
> came to the States in 1923, following his older brother who came a few years
> earlier. His brother settled in the "Mexican neighborhood" of Milwaukee.
> My father raised his family in the "Polish neighborhood". My father and
> his sister both married Anglos, his brother married a Mexican. Dad told
> stories about his family back in Mexico but most of the stories were
> fabricated. One example was that his father or grandfather came from Spain.
> I've traced his direct male ancestors back to around 1820 and they were all
> born in Tepatitlan. So much for his pride in his heritage. It was the "old
> way." As you can guess by my father's age, I am not a spring chicken and
> learning a new language is not easy. I've picked up enough to read the
> Baptismos, etc., but not enough to follow the Spanish threads on this list.
> As someone earlier mentioned, the translators available online make for
> comical reading.
>
> I love my heritage and wish I knew more about it. I am trying, but it is
> slow going. I would like to find a fellow researcher who is interested in
> Tepatitlan. I get help when necessary, but it's not the same as having a
> research buddy who is bilingual.
>
> Good luck to you all in your research. One day I may learn more Spanish.
> Until then, the bilingual translations on this list are great when they are
> there.
>
> Linda Romero
Hi Linda,
I've heard that there is a book called "Retonos de la Nueva Galicia" which contains the info you are referring to. I have been to Tepatitlan, I have heard that 113 families actually came from Spain to Los Altos and kept intermarrying as opposed to mixing with the indians. According to what I have been told, it was in the early 1500's.
Does anyone know about it??
Gabriela
> From: romero89@earthlink.net
> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 12:15:17 -0500
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews/Spanish Language
>
> Hi all,
>
> Don't be surprised that many of us "older" first generation Americans
> don't speak our parents mother tongue. My father was born in
> Tepatitlan de Morelos in 1909. That was 100 years ago with 100 years
> ago attitudes. He came to the States in 1923, following his older
> brother who came a few years earlier. His brother settled in the
> "Mexican neighborhood" of Milwaukee. My father raised his family in
> the "Polish neighborhood". My father and his sister both married
> Anglos, his brother married a Mexican. Dad told stories about his
> family back in Mexico but most of the stories were fabricated. One
> example was that his father or grandfather came from Spain. I've
> traced his direct male ancestors back to around 1820 and they were
> all born in Tepatitlan. So much for his pride in his heritage. It
> was the "old way." As you can guess by my father's age, I am not a
> spring chicken and learning a new language is not easy. I've picked
> up enough to read the Baptismos, etc., but not enough to follow the
> Spanish threads on this list. As someone earlier mentioned, the
> translators available online make for comical reading.
>
> I love my heritage and wish I knew more about it. I am trying, but
> it is slow going. I would like to find a fellow researcher who is
> interested in Tepatitlan. I get help when necessary, but it's not
> the same as having a research buddy who is bilingual.
>
> Good luck to you all in your research. One day I may learn more
> Spanish. Until then, the bilingual translations on this list are
> great when they are there.
>
> Linda Romero
HI Gabriela not sure if we have communicated or met before? Im Daniel, the book is really what revolve around our genealogy, alot of us on here can trace our lineage to Los Altos. If you been to Tepatitlán or anywhere in Los Altos, you can tell, the majority are really white and tall, you can find from bright brown eyes to brightest blue eyes and anything in between, greenm grey, etc. From Brunettes, blondes and black hair. The book goes into detail about our appearance. I am a fellow alteño, i lived there for about a year when I was yournger but was born in the US. The reason why there is absence of mixing is because its so high up, hence Los Altos. Even my grandpa who married his second cousin said, Why need to go down when I can marry here. I always laugh at him, he's very funny. My mother's family came a little late Camino-Soto, to Mexico a little after the independence but once they got there they were able to assilimilate into alteño society pretty quickly. The first thing they did was marry of their kids, to the local Spanish families, some of them González de Hermosillo, Ramírez de Mendoza, Ramírez de Cornejo and many others, within 5 years, we were related to everyone already, pretty crazy stuff. We arent the only Mexicans who didnt mix, there all over the place, the north also there was less mixing since there werent as much indians. I think it was more than 113 families but those 113 are the ones (original). About marriages, they are known to marry their close relatives, my grandpa says they try to marry a different last name (otra casa) but the marrying of same last names does occurr. The Los Altos border really extends into other parts too, like southern and eastern Zacatecas, Aguas, western Gto. and northern Michoacán and southern Jalisco this is due b/c the alteños from Los Altos travweled in and out to the sourrounding areas and settled. Hence why we are all related in that part. The alteños family of today are the same ones from the 1500s. I hope this helps, Im really bad at explaining things! -Daniel
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A long time ago, even before being aware of the possible Jewish family
Med/Semitic - E1b1b1
(http://www.ysearch.org/search_results.asp?uid=883H3&min_markers=8&misma…
ng_marker=8®ion=) 13 25 13 09 18 18 11 12 12 13 12 30 15 09 09 11 12 26
14 20 32 15 16 16 18
I have a memory working as deli waitress. Every single one of these
woman thought I was Jewish. I thought them sweet, as I thought that they just
wanted to relate to me. Personally, I have always thought I looked liked
the typical Mexican person....a bit of this, a bit of that...a face that all
would adopt.
As it turns out, there seems to be truth in the old adage "la sangre
llame".....and with the probing of family lineage, they admitted that indeed
they knew that they carried Jewish blood in them. (Nuevo Leon lineage).
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Hi Linda, Im Daniel Méndez del Camino Ive seen you a couple times and your posts, not sure if you know me. I dont think your father was wrong he is of Spanish blood, true, maybe his grandfather didnt come from Spain but his ancestors did. I was always told to be proud of your Spanish roots, we come from a great people, states my deceased grandmother when I was younger. I think thats what matters, we all should be proud of what makes us and who we are, nothing can change that. I am proud of my roots, Los Altos is a beautful place, the architecture is gorgeous and the food is very good.
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That saying explains the use of the images of knights, Germanic looking to me, in this video, which I like a lot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBLgnIUMGPo
Esa frase explica el uso de las imagenes de caballeros medievales, que a mi parecen tipo Aleman, en el video, que me gusta mucho http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBLgnIUMGPo
Armando
Hi Armando,
I also love that 'Alteño' channel on youtube they post great videos on our culture. I remember as a child I would always be told of stories, 'Los conquistadores, El Cid, Don Quijote, El Rey, Alfonso I, La Conquista', Then old stories of the revolution. I think 'Los Altos' has a unique culture then the rest of Méjico, a region of one of a kind. Like my grandfather says, "Nunca olvidaremos nuestra Madre Patria, España". I was able to live in 'Los Altos' when I was 6 to abt 7 years old. So abt 8-9 months, it was the best experience to see my grandparents. The saying is true though eventhough we all come from the first (not sure if too say Spanish, b/c they were other Europeans too) families, all the 'alteños' were enemies at the same time. My grandfathers uncles and cousins killed each other in a duel in 1950. Over the love of their cousin and some personal hatred towards each other.
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
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Hi Ed, please forgive me if my last post to you sounded a little pointed, It wasn't my intention and I do apologize if there was a misunderstanding. Of course I realize that our DNA is only a small percentage of the wider picture that makes us who we are , I also agree that DNA results cannot give us the truth of our families conception, here are two good examples ; When the Moors invaded Spain, many Hispano Goths and Hispano Romans converted to Islam so they could retain some of there lands and status. Were we do dig up the bones of one of these fellows and test their DNA it would not show that these men converted to Islam, as with Judaism, there is no Islamic gene. Now I do agree that DNA studies will give us a good picture of a group of people who in all likelihood may be of a certain faith, but we cannot say for sure. Also alot is made of the Celts in Spain. Recent genetic studies in Spain have proven that the true Celts left a very small imprint on the genetics of modern Spaniards \ Hispanics. The label Celt, like Jew or Moor is a name used to identify a large group of people and put them in a box, nice and tidy. The true Celts are from the areas of Central Europe and into France where they were known as Gauls. The Irish, Scots and Welsh, along with the Gallegos of Spain call themselves Celts, but this is a modern creation and incorrect.
DNA evidence has shown that these people belong to the Atlantic Model haplotype group, and they share DNA with the Basques, whom history does not identify as Celts. It was the shared material culture of these people, which was influenced by the true Celtic cultures,the Hallstatt and La Tene. If a Japanese man wears blue jeans, a Bruce Sprintsteen t-shirt and baseball cap, does this make him an American ? No, the same with these ancient tribes, there material goods may have been Celtic in design, but it was through trade and influence that it came to them.
I whole heartedly agree with you about the stupidity in regards to purity of blood, and here is where I would like to make a point. I want to make clear that I would not be ashamed of any Jewish ancestry, as I said in my previous post, I am proud of my ancestors, what and whom ever they were. But I do find it troubling that some, not you specifically, are very quick to label results as Jewish , Moorish, Celtic and so on. DNA predates any of the formation of these cultures, of course I'm not saying that it cannot be used to identify possible groups, but we are too quick to label. This can be said for my own DNA results, I have to admit is is nice to entertain the thought that I share DNA with Ancient Greeks, Macedonians, Thracians and Illyrians. The modern populations where these ancient people lived have the highest concentration of E-V13 on the planet, but because I share DNA with a Greek does that make me a practitioner of the Greek Orthodox faith ?
I have a graph that shows the percentage of haplogroups in Spain and surrounding countries in relation to the Sephardic Jews. The two largest haplogroups attributed to these wonderful people are J and J2, at 25% and 22% respectively. The next two are G at 15% and R1b at 13%, E1b1b1a2 \E V-13 shows at 3 % total. Does this mean that everyone who has J2 or G DNA has Jewish ancestry ? absolutely not, does it mean that someone with E-V13 cannot have Jewish ancestry, again, no.
Sorry to drone on, I will attach a link to the graph I spoke of as soon as I find it so others can have a look, My best to you Ed... Robert~
Robert,
Gee, what you say is very interesting, but, if like you say, "quick to label results as Jewish , Moorish, Celtic and so on. DNA predates any of the formation of these cultures", then why do the DNA studies? Mr. Greenspan of Family Tree DNA told me that he started the program to try to trace ancestry back to Moses and Aaron. If they can link you back to Cohen ancestry, then you are probably descended from Moses, or the priest class. He didn't say it in those words, but that is what I understood. There is a Catholic priest in New Mexico whose DNA linked him to the Cohen ancestors. He is proud of it. I guess he feels he is in the right profession by ancestry.
Also, my husband is what you would call an "alteno", tall, and very white. He knew that his mother's ancestors, the Acostas, had been very prominent Jews in Spain, then they converted to Catholicism when forced to; I guess they call them "maranos". When I was having my hair done in Mexico City once, the hairdresser looked at my husband and asked me where he was from. She said that he looked like a "norteno", and I asked her what she meant. She said he looked like someone from Jalisco, a "tapatio". Never having gone to Jalisco, I don't know what the majority of people there look like nor that their appearance would be recognizable to someone from another area of Mexico. I didn't think people from Jalisco were called "norteno". I thought only Anglos from America were called that.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:25 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
Hi Ed, please forgive me if my last post to you sounded a little pointed, It wasn't my intention and I do apologize if there was a misunderstanding. Of course I realize that our DNA is only a small percentage of the wider picture that makes us who we are , I also agree that DNA results cannot give us the truth of our families conception, here are two good examples ; When the Moors invaded Spain, many Hispano Goths and Hispano Romans converted to Islam so they could retain some of there lands and status. Were we do dig up the bones of one of these fellows and test their DNA it would not show that these men converted to Islam, as with Judaism, there is no Islamic gene. Now I do agree that DNA studies will give us a good picture of a group of people who in all likelihood may be of a certain faith, but we cannot say for sure. Also alot is made of the Celts in Spain. Recent genetic studies in Spain have proven that the true Celts left a very small imprint on the genetics of mode
r
n Spaniards \ Hispanics. The label Celt, like Jew or Moor is a name used to identify a large group of people and put them in a box, nice and tidy. The true Celts are from the areas of Central Europe and into France where they were known as Gauls. The Irish, Scots and Welsh, along with the Gallegos of Spain call themselves Celts, but this is a modern creation and incorrect.
DNA evidence has shown that these people belong to the Atlantic Model haplotype group, and they share DNA with the Basques, whom history does not identify as Celts. It was the shared material culture of these people, which was influenced by the true Celtic cultures,the Hallstatt and La Tene. If a Japanese man wears blue jeans, a Bruce Sprintsteen t-shirt and baseball cap, does this make him an American ? No, the same with these ancient tribes, there material goods may have been Celtic in design, but it was through trade and influence that it came to them.
I whole heartedly agree with you about the stupidity in regards to purity of blood, and here is where I would like to make a point. I want to make clear that I would not be ashamed of any Jewish ancestry, as I said in my previous post, I am proud of my ancestors, what and whom ever they were. But I do find it troubling that some, not you specifically, are very quick to label results as Jewish , Moorish, Celtic and so on. DNA predates any of the formation of these cultures, of course I'm not saying that it cannot be used to identify possible groups, but we are too quick to label. This can be said for my own DNA results, I have to admit is is nice to entertain the thought that I share DNA with Ancient Greeks, Macedonians, Thracians and Illyrians. The modern populations where these ancient people lived have the highest concentration of E-V13 on the planet, but because I share DNA with a Greek does that make me a practitioner of the Greek Orthodox faith ?
I have a graph that shows the percentage of haplogroups in Spain and surrounding countries in relation to the Sephardic Jews. The two largest haplogroups attributed to these wonderful people are J and J2, at 25% and 22% respectively. The next two are G at 15% and R1b at 13%, E1b1b1a2 \E V-13 shows at 3 % total. Does this mean that everyone who has J2 or G DNA has Jewish ancestry ? absolutely not, does it mean that someone with E-V13 cannot have Jewish ancestry, again, no.
Sorry to drone on, I will attach a link to the graph I spoke of as soon as I find it so others can have a look, My best to you Ed... Robert~
Hi Emilie , Thank for the reply, perhaps I should gone into a little more detail, my apologies. I am aware of the Cohen marker and yes, in some cases you can identify a specific ethnic group via DNA, absolutely. The issue I have is this, I will use my own group as an example. I know a bit more about it than others, the haplotype E contains varios sub clades, E-V13 and E-M81 are two I will use here to illustrate my point. E1b1b1a2, shorthand E-V13 is found at it's highest levels the Balkans, which includes Greece,Macedonia and Albania just to name a few Balkan countries. It is found at it's highest rates worldwide there, in someplaces as many as 47 percent of men have this marker, that is a staggering amount. Therefore, it can be speculated that the Ancient inhabitants of the Balkans, Illyrians, Macedonians and Thracians carried this marker, but it was inherited before the division of tribes, before there were such people as Thracians etc.
So here we see a marker that is common to several different peoples not one specific, therefore, it was in existence before tribal divisions and cannot be applied to one specific group. It is not the "Thracian" marker, rather it is the Balkan marker. On to E-M81, this marker IS specific to one ethnic group, and it is known as the Berber marker, over 90% of the male Berber population carrys this marker, another staggering statistic. But , here is the thing, the Balkan marker is found at very, very low levels in North Africa, according to some studies at 0.09 percent, while the M-81 marker can be found in the Balkans, it is a recent arrival,not something that developed locally but was introduced at a late date, in the modern era.
So, here we see even though these two markers are included in the same Haplotype group, they cannot be identified as the same or even very similar.Therefore we cannot say that every person who carries the E marker is Berber, but it's sub clade E-M81 can be used to identify the Berbers. If someone is in the J2 group they cannot all be identified as Jews, but if you have the Cohen marker and fall into the sub clade, then yes, you can identify Jewish heritage. Your husband is from Los Altos and aware of his Jewish roots as well as being similar in apperence to my family ( tall, fair) , this does not mean that all the inhabitants of Los Altos who are fair skinned have Jewish roots.
My only desire is to avoid stereotyping, to come to the truth of the matter before putting one in a box. I have had so many people come comment that I do not look Mexican, as if you had to look a certain way to call yourself Mexican, and truth be told, I get this more from Mexicanos than anyone else. We've allowed ourselves to become narrow minded, to put everyone and everything into a category. It can be said that DNA studies do the same thing right ? I suppose everything has it's good and bad points. Robert~
Hi Robert and Emilie et al. About Jews and Los Altos, there is some jewish origin in some families. One is the infamous case of the Padilla Dávila they have Jewish blood, not sure how but in Retoños I by Mariano Gonzalez Leal, it states that they were able to assilimate with the alteños eveenthough by law it was ilegal to marry a jew, because of herecy. I come from the Padillas at least once I believe So I guess I do have jewish connection. About looking Mexican thats absurd, I hate it when people say "you don't look Mexican" as if we all looked the same. Not sure why in Mexico, Europe and Latin America when someone thinks of a Mexican they usually picture the colonial, fair skinned person but in the US they picture a more Native American. I am Mexican and I always picture a fair-skinned person possibly due to the influence I had as a child to Los Altos. All my cousins look just like I do. Thats a shock and very offensive when people say I dont look Mexican. Mexico has all colors, Brown, tan, white, black and anything in between just like the US we are a pluricultural nation. Europeans, Native Americans, African, and so on. People can be ignorant if they dont know their history, I had a teacher once who didnt even know Europeans arrived in Mexico much less the Spanish language came from Europe! Actually it was two teachers, I responded by saying, "Europeans did come to Mexico in the 16th Century how else did we get European names? Fernández, García etc. Spanish comes from Europe, in Spain where they speak Spanish. They also though Spain was in Latin America. Shows how much people can be ignorant.
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Hey Daniel, it is crazy in regards to stereo typing any ethnic group and the way they look. It is true that most, but not all, of Anglo America thinks all Mexicans look and act the same. So many have no clue about the different groups that make up the modern Mexican, and forget about Spain ! George W. Bush himself thought Spain was located in South America ! One funny note about not looking hispanic \ latino is that on more than one occasion I've caught people talking about me or my wife in Spanish because they don't realize I SPEAK SPANISH ! When I reply to them in Spanish, the looks on their faces are priceless. Robert~
I have experienced the same. You just need to go to different regions in Mexico, there is no uniform "look" for a Mexican, so narrow-headed thinking.
Yo he tenido la misma experiencia (gente pinsa que no soy de Mexico y hace comentarios de Mexico o en Espanol, cuando respondo se sorprenden) . Solo se necesita viajar a las diferentes regiones de Mexico para darse cuenta de que no hay un solo "look" para los mexicanos (de todos colores y sabores), mente muy cerrada!
Gabriela
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 16:20:24 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y DNA \ Daniel
>
> Hey Daniel, it is crazy in regards to stereo typing any ethnic group and the way they look. It is true that most, but not all, of Anglo America thinks all Mexicans look and act the same. So many have no clue about the different groups that make up the modern Mexican, and forget about Spain ! George W. Bush himself thought Spain was located in South America ! One funny note about not looking hispanic \ latino is that on more than one occasion I've caught people talking about me or my wife in Spanish because they don't realize I SPEAK SPANISH ! When I reply to them in Spanish, the looks on their faces are priceless. Robert~
I agree Gabriels, I too have faced some difficult and have been hurt of comments people make. They assume Mexican is a certain look. I think they forget Europeans did immigrate to Mexico. I also think its people opinion what is Mexican to me, may not be Mexican too someone else. Where we come from in Los Altos, the usual Mexican will be have very European characteristics, hence ever since I was a child, that was a Mexicn for me since the influence and my family around, My friends today, have other views of what is MExican. Just like the US, Mexicano is a pluralcultural country, there are white, blacks, mestizos, etc. Its not good to be narrow minded. -Daniel
Hi Robert, I was always taught as a child, Hispanics/Latinos do not exist, I was always told we are all either white, black or asian or native American. Hence ehy I dont associate my self with Hispanic, its just another way to try to seperate spanish-speaking people from Anglo America. I was told I am white and Mexican. I think its a Los Altos thing, my grandpa is very pro-Spanish about his roots. As I said before, I always laugh at him.-Daniel
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Robert,
Thanks for sharing the info. It is interesting to learn about the results of these studies. I think it would be great if your post were translated to Spanish for those in México that participate in Nuestros Ranchos. What area of Jalisco, Zacatecas or Aguascalientes are your Mexican ancestors from?
Armando
Hi Armando ! Thanks for the reply, I'll do my best to translate my findings in to Spanish very soon. My father's people are from La Villa de San Jose de Bazarte in Los Altos,Jalisco , just outside of Tepatitlan.
Hi Robert,
This was not boring AT ALL. Thank you for taking the time to write out a
fuller explanation of your DNA findings. My grandfather (surname Torres) did
a DNA test which we then did a deep clade on and got the following results:
R1b1b2a1b; or shorthand: R-P312. According to this test, he came up negative
for most mutations (L21- M153- M222- M37- M65- P312+ P66- SRY2627- U152-),
except P312 which I thought was the least "descriptive." I would love any
additional information you or others may have on this DNA result.
-Esperanza
On 6/29/09 10:52 AM, "gandalf3.1@netzero.com"
wrote:
> Hello Everyone, seeing the post today in regards to Y DNA results, It
> occurred to me that I said I would share my results when they came in. Sorry I
> didn't do this sooner, although I'm sure no one was losing sleep over it ( HA
> !) My Y DNA results are E1b1b1a2 \ Shorthand E-V13. It is the 3rd most common
> haplogroup among European men and considered one of the core or founding
> groups in Europe. It is the only E subclade that is found in low frequencies
> (2% ) in N. Africa. This subclade is associated with the Balkans where the
> largest worldwide percentage of E-V13 is found. It is used to identify ancient
> peoples such as the Illyrians, Thracians and Macedonians, as well as Greeks.
> Modern populations that show high percentages of E-V13 are Albanians,
> Peloponnesian Greeks, Bulgarians and Macedonians.
>
> As far as Spain is concerned, it is found in low numbers and mostly confined
> to the west of the country, the highest percentages being found in Extremadura
> (9%), Galicia (7%) and NW Castile (6%). It was, at one time, thought to be
> found in Spain due to ancient Greek exploration and settlement, but Greek
> settlements noted are only found on the east coast in the regions of Cataluña
> and Valencia. The vast majority of ³E² Y DNA in Spain is associated with the
> Berbers, but this is sub clade E-M81.
>
> One theory as to how a DNA marker so prevalent in the Balkans and the Eastern
> Mediterranean made it's way to Western Europe and Spain can be found in a town
> in Wales called Abegele. A study was conducted involving the town and out of
> 18 men tested, 7 tested positive for the marker E-V13. A wider study was
> conducted and it concluded that 40 % of the men in the town carried the E-V13
> marker. It turns out in antiquity; Abergele was an important Roman town. It
> was not garrisoned by Romans \ Italians, but by Thracian auxiliaries and other
> men with a Balkan origin. A similar scenario could also apply to Spain,
> perhaps the marker made it's way there with auxiliaries in the Roman army ?
> The E-V13 marker also found it's way into Afghanistan and Pakistan with the
> men in Alexander the Great's army. A small percentage is found amongst groups
> who claim these men as their ancestors.
>
> So what does it all mean?well, for one, I'm the only E-V13 on Gary Felix's
> website, the ³Geneology of Mexico². There are others who have the same 12 \37
> marker results, but have not done the deep clade test, so who knows ? As far
> as helping me with my genealogy studies, as of yet it has not. I'm thinking
> that my ancestors in Spain may have come from one of the western provinces,
> perhaps Extremadura, but it¹s all speculation at this point. Sorry to bore you
> all ! Thanks for your patience!
>
> Robert ~
>
>
>
Hi Robert:
I also belong to the same Haplogroup as you: E1b1b1- M35. I had my YDNA
analyzed by Genetree.for 36 markers. I am interested in comparing them to
yours to see how many we have in common. Could you please send me a copy of
your markers?
Thank you.
John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA.
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:52
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y DNA Update
> Hello Everyone, seeing the post today in regards to Y DNA results...
Hi Primo ! I've tried to send you a screen shot of my results with no luck, you can see them on The Geneology of Mexico website though ! Keep in touch !
I've understood that the coat of arms was a first born to first born to
first born "thing".
I've understood that the coat of arms was a first born to first born to
first born "thing".
This is a message sent to me from a fellow ranchos member, Olivia
Jaurequi-Reyes.
joseph
======================
Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Veg
If anyone in the group has information and feels inclined to help please
send reply to this person who needs help in researching how to find a
person buried in Guadalajara in 1993.
thanks,
I am also the third generation born in this country. My father was raised in
East L.A. his grandparents came from Aguascalientes and Culiacan.
Hello,
I am first Generation and I cannot speak Spanish. My father came from Acatic Jalisco in 1955 and he spoke no english. We even lived in Mexico when I was a little girl and I spoke it fluently when we came back. My dad never continues to speak Spanish to me. Unfortunately I didn't take it in school, it never made sense to me, it wasn't Mexican. So now when I see my relatives, my father speaks for us. Its very frustrating!
________________________________
From: Elisa Joyce
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 4:41:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] General Digest, Vol 42, Issue 5
I am also the third generation born in this country. My father was raised in
East L.A. his grandparents came from Aguascalientes and Culiacan. My father
only spoke spanish until the age of 5 when he started attending public
school. My mother is a NewYorican ( a Puerto Rican from New York) her mother
came as a girl w/parents from Humacao, PR. She says she dosen't ever
remember not understanding both english and spanish. While both my parents
are bilingual they never taught their children spanish. They would say they
spoke primarily in english because they "think in english". The funny thing
is that they spoke spanish around us just enough for us to understand what
was being said when we heard the language, but we can't speak it. I have
learned that the 3rd generation born in the US usually don't speak spanish.
The first must speak it to communicate w/parents. The 2nd generation usually
speak it to communicate w/grandparents who frequently take care of them as
children. The third generation rarely speak spanish fluently. I have about
30 first cousins and none of them speak spanish except 2 of them who moved
to Mexico for an extended period of time to learn the language. I personally
feel like my parent did me a diservice.
On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 4:03 PM,
wrote:
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> DAILY DIGEST
> ****************************************
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Y-DNA and Jews (Cole Tepper)
> 2. DNA and Spanish Language (rosehardy@hotmail.com)
> 3. Y-DNA and Jews/Spanish Language (Linda)
> 4. Re: Y-DNA and Jews/Spanish Language (patty haro)
> 5. Traducci?n No 1 Y DNA Update (arman212@sbcglobal.net)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 22:02:51 -0700
> From: Cole Tepper
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID:
> 44ed8e970907042202p45cfb87ey21310a675b26d245@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Its ironic...My family has been in the States for 3 born generations(and
> the
> crossover generation before that). My grandparents, first generation(at
> least..on my grandma's side..dunno much about my grandfather's side) born
> here, speak/spoke it but also are native english speakers. My mother and
> my
> aunts/uncles all were taught English and didn't learn Spanish(for those
> that
> know it now) until high-school or college or just curiosity as adults. As
> far as my mother goes, she has some understanding ability but no speaking
> ability whatsoever. She's as bleached as they come. Myself and my
> brothers
> have learned Spanish only through high-school, although I personally took
> only 2 years and have a very weak vocabulary and crippled grammar. In
> university, I took up the study of Hebrew instead of continuing with
> Spanish(and its funny because I'm in San Diego).......When intoxicated I
> tend to randomly pick either tongue to express myself, sometimes both.
>
> As for the topic of Jewish DNA....I'm currently studying potential links to
> Sephardim and the Conversos/Marranos in Zacatecas. Its hard because the 3
> epicenters of Jews in Mexico at any given era where they were present would
> be Guadalajara(Jalisco), Monterrey (Nuevo Leon), and Mexico City (DF),
> though I know quite a few Jews from TJ and around here too. Zacatecas is a
> middle-ground for all 3 of those..........Given how by name, some of my
> family names come up as Sephardic, and how my family are as referred to in
> some of the e-mails here "Norteno"(lighter features,etc.) and come from an
> oral history of European roots(Spanish and French), this topic has great
> personal interest. Currently pending is a FamilyTree DNA test(Y-37 and
> mtDNA..but only my mtDNA is Mexican) so I'll see whether my suspicions are
> correct.
>
> That said...Don't be ashamed or offended if your ancestors aren't
> "Visigoths". The Sephardim contributed a great deal and financed the
> expeditions. It is because of them that Spain had fulfilled and realized
> its' potential to become a dominant power....My ancestor on my father's
> side
> is supposedly one of the chief financiers of Columbus before the Expulsion
> forced them out. Look up Meir Melamed and the Abarbanels. Without that
> money, there is not so much likelihood that they would've sent out
> colonizing parties when they did. No colonies or plunder = no economy = no
> Spain. If your ancestors are Berbers, they also contributed to
> Spain(Muslim
> Spain was supposed to be more advanced scientifically and socially).
>
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:40 PM, wrote:
>
> > My house was different...my daddy was a white and mom from totatiche
> > mexico.....mom spoke no english and dad spoke no spanish (few words here
> and
> > there).......my sister and I are both fully bilingual.........but now
> using
> > english more and speaking spanish only when I am at work or with my
> > mom........I feel I am just losing my spanish....?????? :-(
> > Stella
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AliceBB
> > To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Sent: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 9:04 am
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
> >
> >
> >
> > The primary and secondary language issue is complex. Both my parents are
> > from
> > Mexico, however, my first language was English, yet I am bilingual. When
> > they
> > immigrated to the US in the late 1940's they moved into the "anglo" side
> of
> > town
> > for the better schools and witnessed the difficulty my older brother had
> > and
> > vowed they would try to make life easier for me when I was born 15 years
> > later.
> > They spoke to me primarily in English, but continued to use Spanish
> amongst
> > themselves. My MA is in second language acquisiton and learning, and I
> now
> > know
> > why it worked. At any time in our lives we all acquire language in the
> > same
> > process: listening, understanding, and speaking. I didn't speak Spanish
> > until I
> > was about 18 because of the lack of necessity and opportunity in my
> > neighborhood
> > and educational situation. However, when I decided to make the effort to
> > speak
> > Spanish, it did come and I am able to speak both languages without an
> > accent.
> > So you don't necessarily lose it if you don't use, it can lay "dormant"
> in
> > the
> > brain until awakened. Literacy is a whole other animal. You have to
> teach
> > yourself or be taught to read and write. ABB
> >
> > --- longsjourney@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
> > To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
> > Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 17:25:34 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> > I'm a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish
> > unless
> > it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us," you're an American
> so
> > speak
> > English!)? I know that they thought they were helping us to fit by not
> > having a
> > Spanish accent when we spoke English.? Our town was very divided racially
> > and
> > all any parents want's is the best avenue for their children so I'm not
> > angry or
> > fell cheated.? I did take it in high school but found when you don't use
> it
> > you
> > loose it!? When I went to Mexico they laughed at my slow broken Spanish
> but
> > appreciated that I did try.? My family immigrated in 1916 from Jerez and
> > both
> > grandparents became ci
> > tizens and spoke English to all the grandchildren.
> > ?
> > LInda in B.C.
> >
> > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: sjlstar@aol.com
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
> > To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:11 PM
> >
> >
> > Linda,
> > why forbidden?
> > Stella
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Linda
> > To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Sent: Fri, Jul 3, 2009 3:57 pm
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
> >
> >
> > I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though my
> > father
> > was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except when he and my
> > mother
> > had secrets not for children's ears). It is difficult to follow
> everything
> > on
> > this list unless a person is bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have
> a
> > translating angel who would magically translate all the emails into both
> > Spanish
> > and English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests
> > us.
> > Valuable information would not be missed.?
> > ?
> > Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.?
> > ?
> > Linda?
> > ?
> > On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM,
> general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgwrote:?
> > ?
> > > Message: 3?
> > > Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000?
> > > From: Antonio Santillan ?
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews?
> > > To: ?
> > > Message-ID: ?
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"?
> > >?
> > >?
> > > Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el > ingles,
> de
> > tal
> > manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y > datos que aportar a los
> > distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian > tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y
> > asi
> > aumentar el numero de > participantes en las discuciones.?
> > >?
> > >?
> > >?
> > > Saludos cordiales?
> > >?
> > >?
> > >?
> > > Antonio Santillan?
> > >?
> > ?
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --?
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List?
> > ?
> > To post, send email to:?
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org?
> > ?
> > To change your subscription, log on to:?
> > http://www.Nues
> > trosRanchos.com?
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________________
> > Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 08:49:21 -0700 (PDT)
> From: rosehardy@hotmail.com
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA and Spanish Language
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID:
> www.nuestrosranchos.org
> &nid=17858&pid=16032&cid=16037&uid=432&tid=
> 1&32f6143b8dfc3ecb388c6d246b1c15b3@www.nuestrosranchos.org1%2632f6143b8dfc3ecb388c6d246b1c15b3@www.nuestrosranchos.org>
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> I found this thread very interesting to read. I myself do not speak spanish
> even though my parents did (mostly talking about us kids at the dinner
> table) I understand a few words here and there, but not much. It surprised
> me to learn that my mothers father who was from the old Californio families
> was not raised speaking spanish until he met my grandmother who was from
> Durangom, Mexico.
>
> I was born and raised in the eastern part of Los Angeles county and my
> father did not want his children to learn spanish for fear we would be
> discriminated against. We did not live in the barrio like my grandparents
> (my Los Altos ancestors), but on the north end of town in a middle class
> neighborhood, in an all Caucasian neighborhood. I have heard stories
> regarding my great uncles who applied for work with the county of L.A. and
> were not hired due to their ethic background. The 1930's was also a time in
> this county where Mexican/Americans were being deported to Mexico even
> though they were born in the U.S. as were their parents....they were
> bascially deported because they were dark Mexicans. Some cousins that I know
> of who were light-skinned Mexicians claiming they came from Spain just so
> that they would not be deported.
>
> I just wanted to add my little story.
>
> And by the way, I did my DNA about 2 years ago and belong to Haplo group C.
> Very interesting stuff.
>
> Rose
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 12:15:17 -0500
> From: Linda
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews/Spanish Language
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID: 1FDDBF11-B7B5-4177-A2DA-AD632511D2C9@earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Hi all,
>
> Don't be surprised that many of us "older" first generation Americans
> don't speak our parents mother tongue. My father was born in
> Tepatitlan de Morelos in 1909. That was 100 years ago with 100 years
> ago attitudes. He came to the States in 1923, following his older
> brother who came a few years earlier. His brother settled in the
> "Mexican neighborhood" of Milwaukee. My father raised his family in
> the "Polish neighborhood". My father and his sister both married
> Anglos, his brother married a Mexican. Dad told stories about his
> family back in Mexico but most of the stories were fabricated. One
> example was that his father or grandfather came from Spain. I've
> traced his direct male ancestors back to around 1820 and they were
> all born in
A good program for translation has yet to be invented. In my opinion there
will never be a sutible replacement for a human translator.
http://translate.google.com/translate_t#en|es|translate%20English%20into%20Spanish
Para los que necesitan tradu
This is good, not always accurate but a good start.
In a message dated 7/4/2009 8:59:57 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com writes:
http://translate.google.com/translate_t#en|es|translate%20English%20into%20S
panish
Para los que necesitan traducir los e-mails a ingles/espanol
Link for those who need translations for Enlish/Spanish.
How's that? Ha! como les parecen?
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
Google translate really isn't good enough. I have been trying to find time in the past few days to translate for the readers that would like a translation. Even though I am not the best person to do translations I can do a better job than Google.
An example is that even for the simple phrase "How's that?" Google translated it to "¿Cómo es eso?" when it should be "¿Esta bien?" or ¿Que tal?
"¿Como les parecen?" means "How do you (plural) look like them?" It should be ¿Que les parece? Please don't take it personal. I have done bad translations before and I will continue to do so. Also, typos can make it look like a person doesn't know how to write in that language.
Cordially,
Armando
Las traducciónes de Google realmente tiene demasiados errores. He estado tratando de encontrar tiempo de traducir para los lectores que les gustaria una traducción. Aun no soy el mejor para hacer traducciones pero lo podria hacer mejor que Google.
Por ejemplo el simpre frase "How's that?" esta traducido por Google como "¿Cómo es eso?" cuando debería ser "¿Esta bien?" o ¿Que tal?
"¿como les parecen?" quiere decir "How do you (plural) look like them?" cuando debería ser ¿Que les parece? Por favor no lo tomes mal. He hecho mal las traducciones antes y seguiré haciéndolo. Además, errores por falta de usar bien el teclado pueden hacer que parezca que una persona no sabe escribir bien en ese idioma.
Cordialmente,
Armando
Interpretations of Christening Records of Aguascalientes 1727-1762
Source:
Mexico Aguascalientes Catholic Church Records, Rincón de Romos.
I'm pretty much going from a 80thcousin/friends information who is much
much more knowledgeable than I am in DNA understanding.
Joseph,
I tried to print out my surnames and Tony's (Olague and Cervantes) and they wouldn't print off this website. Did you have to pay to get the image and the history? They wanted almost $20.00 just for the image.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Puentes
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 3:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] YDNA Update
I'm pretty much going from a 80thcousin/friends information who is much
much more knowledgeable than I am in DNA understanding. Here are some
communications I've had with him:
Specifically it comes from:
http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.c/qx/puentes-coat-arms.htm
====================
On the subject of your haplogroup, red means predicted as opposed to
confirmed. The certificate you emailed me from Ethno (S21+)390 is
confirmation of your U106. I suggest emailing it to FTDNA and
requesting that your haplo be changed to R1b1b2g green as confirmed.
You could also email it to the U106 project administrator and also
advise that you are R1b1b2g confirmed. As to the offer below, I would
accept it, as many more recent studies are uncovering special genetic
groupings within the SNP's. The South Euro (Spain Portugal France) part
of U106 represents a very small 4%, with distintive differences in their
markers ie: DYS390+25, 385b=14 or 15, 447=25 or 26, 464A-D=15,15,16,17,
GATA H4=11, YCA I and II= 19, 23 or 24 and 456=15. These are all
different than the large modal for U106 (Frisian) which dominates the
project. My belief and that of other studies suggests these markers are
found in Basque and Gaelic populations that migrated from the Pyrennes
and Northern Spain to Ireland. This study may also shed light on when
and where this special signature emerged (Alpine Germanic? to Iberia) Lyn
======================
The simple answer to your question is yes. All R1b1b2a1a tested
individuals relate to one person who mutated to the SNP referred to in
short as R1b-U106. So far research suggests that took place about 3500
years ago. This individual was a son of SNP P311 and his brother was
P312, an SNP found in numerous Spanish individuals. These two SNP's
are so close, that recently several individuals originally tested as
U106 (your S21), were reclassified as P312. The key is the markers and
specifically the first 12. The bulk of U106 have a 390=23 and indicate
a subclade of U106 called L48+. The rest of us are L48-, and for those
closest to you 390=25. That is found in a wide area, and the debate
continues as to whether it originated in Austria moving south and north?
or Belgium moving east and south? I would bet on the second and still
see no evidence to change my opinion that those with this signature in
Spain, southern France, Ireland and Scotland are the downstream
descendants of the Celtic-Germano Volcae who migrated from the north
into Iberia circa 300BC. New subclade SNP's are discovered every day,
and maybe one will surface to further define our group. Lyn
======================
Thank you for the invite Joseph, I sincerely hope to have a chance to
meet you both at some point. My wife Cecilia (French on the maternal
side) is descended from the family Poitvin anciently of Lanquedoc in
Southern France (kinda the same area, on the North slopes of the
Pyrennes) and believe it or not as the Ripleys used to say, our
progenitor (the Volcae) if I have it figured correctly link to Turkey as
well. The distance calculation between us is a genetic distance of
26/67, so aproximately 2200-2400 years/av 30 between generations (FTDNA)
or about an 80th cousin removed by the time that original U106 line had
migrated and mutated to 13, 25, 14 10. Lyn
joseph
======================
Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)
arman212@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> Joseph, I see you commented "Spanish Origins Valley of Trucios,
Province of Biscay" Do you have more info? My ancestors are from the
same area, Valmaseda, but with a surname from Valle de Mena, Burgos. I
won't have my results until August though. Armando
hola,
Ya tengo donde conseguir el libro en la Ciudad de México, le interesa a
alguien?, cuesta aprox. $100 US mas gastos de envio.
Patty,
Me interesa este libro.
-Angelina-
-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of patty haro
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:36 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] la Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara de Luz Montejano
hola,
Ya tengo donde conseguir el libro en la Ciudad de México, le interesa a
alguien?, cuesta aprox. $100 US mas gastos de envio.
Hola
Que bueno que les interese, me podrían escribir porfavor a mi mail
pattyharo@gmail.com para ponernos de acuerdo directamente.
Gracias
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Angelina Markle wrote:
> Patty,
>
> Me interesa este libro.
>
> -Angelina-
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of patty haro
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:36 PM
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] la Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara de Luz
> Montejano
>
> hola,
> Ya tengo donde conseguir el libro en la Ciudad de México, le interesa a
> alguien?, cuesta aprox. $100 US mas gastos de envio.
Hola, Patty soy Celestino Villalobos, me interesaría saber como obtener un libro de esos.
--- On Mon, 6/29/09, patty haro wrote:
From: patty haro
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] la Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara de Luz Montejano
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 8:35 PM
hola,
Ya tengo donde conseguir el libro en la Ciudad de México, le interesa a
alguien?, cuesta aprox. $100 US mas gastos de envio.
Hoal Patty ,I am interested.
Ronnie Reynoso
> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:35:41 -0500
> From: pattyharo@gmail.com
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] la Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara de Luz Montejano
>
> hola,
> Ya tengo donde conseguir el libro en la Ciudad de México, le interesa a
> alguien?, cuesta aprox. $100 US mas gastos de envio.
I have been doing genealogy for the past 18 years and never found the benefits of the Information Matrimonial records until last night.
I need to add to a comment I made earlier. The comment was "The información matrimonial will always be prior to the date of the marriage. After all of the requirements are met then the couple is give permission to marry." Although this in essence is true, occasionally additional information is found out and the marriage is suspended during the ensuing investigation. This could take place years after the permission to marry was given. Depending on the outcome of the investigation the marriage could be annulled or reinstated.
Saludos desde Lago Salado,
Eduardo H Seoane
I have also found these quite valuable. I have found information that is not in the actual marriage records; I have found matrimonial information for couples that I know have children, but cannot find the marriage records.
Searching for the documents can be a challenge. The earliest ones (1600's) are often not in chronological order, and in fact, different years may be mixed in.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Today I was looking through some from Mocorito, Sinaloa and they had the
Dispensas mixed in but not assigned to any particular informe matriomonial
or diligencia matrimonial if you prefer. Good stuff in there.
I sometimes use them to see if one of the witnesses is the individual I am
looking for since it will give the age, place of residence and sometimes
birth locality. It is one of a few ways to find out where individuals are
from if they are not being born in a particular place. Especially when there
is no marriage record, diligencia matrimonial, or abuelos mentioned in the
christenings to tell where the couple is from.
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 6:51 PM, wrote:
> I have also found these quite valuable. I have found information that is
> not in the actual marriage records; I have found matrimonial information for
> couples that I know have children, but cannot find the marriage records.
>
> Searching for the documents can be a challenge. The earliest ones (1600's)
> are often not in chronological order, and in fact, different years may be
> mixed in.
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton, CA
Thank you, Rose, for sharing your findings regarding marriage information. Where could I find it? is is available online like FHS? This is the first time I hear about these type of records. I am familiar with the term and process as it is used nowdays when a couple applies to be married in the Catholic church.
Gracias, Rose, for compartier tus resultados respecto a la informacion matrimonial. Donde podria encontrarla? Esta disponible en linea como FHS? Esta es la primera vez que oido de este tipo de registros. Estoy familiarizada con el termino y proceso de nuestra epoca cuando una pareja pide casarse en la iglesia Catolica.
Rosie Cordova
Rosie
Aguascalientes baptism, confirmation, death, marriage and marriage information records are online http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html. Click on the interactive map for Mexico and scroll all the way down to see what is digitized online. It has been great...it makes it difficult for me to do anything else around the house.
Happy Hunting!
Rose
Eduardo,
This is a totally different subject. I just started extracting records from the State of Mexico. I was doing 1930 Census Indexing and had no problem. With their new updates I am having a hard time with the extractions--not the language but the instructions. Can you help me with that? I have gone to the FHC in Mission Valley, several times but I guess I can only get help from the right person once a month (1st Wedesday of each month). The only other thing I can do is call SLC and hope they can help me. The last time I tried I ended up struggling until I figured it out on my own. There must be an easier way! Let me know if you can help. Thanks. -Esther Jordan (Lopez)esther@enhanced.org
As far as the digitizing of the records and putting them online, I doubt
that we will see any of those any time soon, FamilySearch seems to be
placing things online in an alphabetical manner. So good luck with
Zacatecas!
On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Eduardo Seoane
wrote:
> The información matrimonial will always be prior to the date of
> the marriage. After all of the requirements are met then the couple is
> give permission to marry.
> Often you will find that there is a marriage record both in the city were
> the groom was from as well as the bride since they had to publish the
> marriage in both places in the three festive consecutive days (at Mas). The
> marriages normally took place in the city where the bride was from. The
> record in the city where the groom was from is more like an informative
> account of the marriage. Whereas the record at the brides parish is the
> actual marriage. Like all things, this scenario will not always be the case.
> So do not expect to always find documentation in both places.
>
> Saludos desde Lago Salado,
> Eduardo H Seoane
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 7:44 AM, wrote:
>
>> I have been doing genealogy for the past 18 years and never found the
>> benefits of the Information Matrimonial records until last night. In the
>> past I have ordered rolls and rolls of these films looking for missing
links
>> with no success. But last night I was helping my research colleague with a
>> mystery in Aguascalientes. He had the date of his ancestors marriage, but
>> the marriage document didn't provide much information....date, their names
>> and witnesses only. So for the heck of it I went to the Information
>> Matrimonial film for the year of the marriage. I looked for the month
>> previous to the date of this couples marriage and lo and behold it was
there
>> along with the names of the couples parents (one line came from Sierra de
>> Pinos).
>>
>> So if you're looking for the marriage of Joseph Peres and Juliana Chabes
>> in Aguascalientes for 3 Feb 1704, the Information Matrimonial was in
>> January, I believe it was image 15.
>>
>> I just thought I'd share this new find....not sure if you've had the same
>> problem that I've had with these records...I had pretty much given up on
>> them due to frustration and cost....but now I know how to use them.....go
>> back 6-3 weeks before the couples marriage. I'm hoping Jalisco, Zacatecas
>> and Sonora digitized records will be online soon.
>>
>> Well, looks like I'll be doing some major hunting this week-end.
>>
>> Rose Hardy
>> Fresno
>>
The información matrimonial will always be prior to the date of
the marriage. After all of the requirements are met then the couple is
give permission to marry.
Often you will find that there is a marriage record both in the city were
the groom was from as well as the bride since they had to publish the
marriage in both places in the three festive consecutive days (at Mas). The
marriages normally took place in the city where the bride was from. The
record in the city where the groom was from is more like an informative
account of the marriage. Whereas the record at the brides parish is the
actual marriage. Like all things, this scenario will not always be the case.
So do not expect to always find documentation in both places.
Saludos desde Lago Salado,
Eduardo H Seoane
On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 7:44 AM, wrote:
> I have been doing genealogy for the past 18 years and never found the
> benefits of the Information Matrimonial records until last night. In the
> past I have ordered rolls and rolls of these films looking for missing links
> with no success. But last night I was helping my research colleague with a
> mystery in Aguascalientes. He had the date of his ancestors marriage, but
> the marriage document didn't provide much information....date, their names
> and witnesses only. So for the heck of it I went to the Information
> Matrimonial film for the year of the marriage. I looked for the month
> previous to the date of this couples marriage and lo and behold it was there
> along with the names of the couples parents (one line came from Sierra de
> Pinos).
>
> So if you're looking for the marriage of Joseph Peres and Juliana Chabes in
> Aguascalientes for 3 Feb 1704, the Information Matrimonial was in January, I
> believe it was image 15.
>
> I just thought I'd share this new find....not sure if you've had the same
> problem that I've had with these records...I had pretty much given up on
> them due to frustration and cost....but now I know how to use them.....go
> back 6-3 weeks before the couples marriage. I'm hoping Jalisco, Zacatecas
> and Sonora digitized records will be online soon.
>
> Well, looks like I'll be doing some major hunting this week-end.
>
> Rose Hardy
> Fresno
>
As far as the digitizing of the records and putting them online, I doubt
that we will see any of those any time soon, FamilySearch seems to be
placing things online in an alphabetical manner. So good luck with
Zacatecas!
On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Eduardo Seoane wrote:
> The información matrimonial will always be prior to the date of
> the marriage. After all of the requirements are met then the couple is
> give permission to marry.
> Often you will find that there is a marriage record both in the city were
> the groom was from as well as the bride since they had to publish the
> marriage in both places in the three festive consecutive days (at Mas). The
> marriages normally took place in the city where the bride was from. The
> record in the city where the groom was from is more like an informative
> account of the marriage. Whereas the record at the brides parish is the
> actual marriage. Like all things, this scenario will not always be the case.
> So do not expect to always find documentation in both places.
>
> Saludos desde Lago Salado,
> Eduardo H Seoane
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 7:44 AM, wrote:
>
>> I have been doing genealogy for the past 18 years and never found the
>> benefits of the Information Matrimonial records until last night. In the
>> past I have ordered rolls and rolls of these films looking for missing links
>> with no success. But last night I was helping my research colleague with a
>> mystery in Aguascalientes. He had the date of his ancestors marriage, but
>> the marriage document didn't provide much information....date, their names
>> and witnesses only. So for the heck of it I went to the Information
>> Matrimonial film for the year of the marriage. I looked for the month
>> previous to the date of this couples marriage and lo and behold it was there
>> along with the names of the couples parents (one line came from Sierra de
>> Pinos).
>>
>> So if you're looking for the marriage of Joseph Peres and Juliana Chabes
>> in Aguascalientes for 3 Feb 1704, the Information Matrimonial was in
>> January, I believe it was image 15.
>>
>> I just thought I'd share this new find....not sure if you've had the same
>> problem that I've had with these records...I had pretty much given up on
>> them due to frustration and cost....but now I know how to use them.....go
>> back 6-3 weeks before the couples marriage. I'm hoping Jalisco, Zacatecas
>> and Sonora digitized records will be online soon.
>>
>> Well, looks like I'll be doing some major hunting this week-end.
>>
>> Rose Hardy
>> Fresno
>>
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