Dr.mt

Research Digest, Vol 50, Issue 4

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
Foros
Genealogy Research

"One My uncles has a circulatory problem that has a much higher incident rate in the jewish population.  my  in laws are from san miguel el alto and they have a skin disorder by they I mean my mothe

Comentarios

Published by actapatio2007 (no verificado) – Vie, 2010-03-05 09:15 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Hello all,

I love to look at these coffin paintings from Fayum Egypt as a reminder of the wide dna sequences from the medittereanean and how those "looks" exist in us today.   These are Greco Roman era paintings from Egypt

http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/03/04/fayum-portrai…

Look at her eyes (1st painting)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayum_mummy_portraits

Anyone see someone they know?

----- Original Message ----
From: Aaron Casillas
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, March 5, 2010 7:45:27 AM
Subject: Re: Research Digest, Vol 50, Issue 4

"One My uncles has a circulatory problem that has a much higher incident rate in the jewish population.  my  in laws are from san miguel el alto and they have a skin disorder by they I mean my mother in law sister in law some of my wifes cousins and her brother get these skin discolorations, small blotches.  This is predominantly a jewish genetic disorder. There are other stories in los altos that point to a jewish influence in certain families. The lomeli romo perez and franco.
"

Hi Ricii

These are also present in mediterranean people in certain populations over all, mostly from the neolithic migrations across the planet, before any of the present religions were present.  It would be logical to conclude that are mediterranean ancestors were part of the Roman empire. 

Here's a great study done in 2001.  The percentages per capita per geographic locations reveals that their are more non jews overall with the same dna y haplogroups than jews, specifically J1, J2.  Significantly higher, we are talking about in the millions and millions.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=MImg&_imagekey=B8JDD-4R29JBW-M…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_(Y-DNA)#J2

----- Original Message ----
From: "research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, March 4, 2010 3:08:23 PM
Subject: Research Digest, Vol 50, Issue 4

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DAILY DIGEST
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Today's Topics:

  1. Delgado from Rio Grande Zacatecas (robertzermeno@msn.com)
  2. Re: Jewish evidence in Los (mygenes2000@yahoo.com)
  3. Re: Jewish evidence in Los Altos (mygenes2000@yahoo.com)
  4. Re: US Government Genealogy Resources (Alicia Carrillo)
  5. de alba (emma.dealba@gmail.com)
  6. Re: Jewish evidence in Los Altos (Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto)
  7. Re: Jewish evidence in Los (Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto)
  8. Re: Jewish evidence in Los (eric edgar)
  9. Re: Jewish evidence in Los Altos (eric edgar)
  10. Re: Jewish evidence in Los Altos (paul.gomez@verizon.net)
  11. Montalvo Research (texn_4_ever@yahoo.com)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed,  3 Mar 2010 18:07:18 -0800 (PST)
From: robertzermeno@msn.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Delgado from Rio Grande Zacatecas
Message-ID:
   
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Hay alguien que tiene mas informacion sobre la familia Delgado do Rio Bravo, Zacatecas?

Esto es lo que tengo:

1) Julio Delgado (n. c. 1870) caso con Ger?nima L?pez
-----2) Perfecto Delgado (n. 6 May 1894 Rio Grande, Zacatecas) caso con Lina Medina
----------3) Antonio Delgado (n. 2 Sep 1905 Rio Grande, Zacatecas m. Jan 1978) caso con Natividad de la Fuente

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 02:55:06 +0000
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish evidence in Los
Message-ID:
    <1223985958-1267671112-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-14664186…>
   
Content-Type: text/plain

One My uncles has a circulatory problem that has a much higher incident rate in the jewish population.  my  in laws are from san miguel el alto and they have a skin disorder by they I mean my mother in law sister in law some of my wifes cousins and her brother get these skin discolorations, small blotches.  This is predominantly a jewish genetic disorder. There are other stories in los altos that point to a jewish influence in certain families. The lomeli romo perez and franco.
------Original Message------
From: actapatio2007@yahoo.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish evidence in Los
Sent: Feb 27, 2010 6:09 PM

Hello R.A. Ricci, my family is from el Valle de Guadalupe.  Is this docmented?  Neither of my grandfathers r.i.p never said anything about this...please point me in the right direction...

Comentario

Hello-

I have to say that I am so very dissapointed in most of the comments on this topic. No one should be attacked or belittled because they are trying to unravel the mystery of who they are.

Also there really is no iron clad Jewish DNA, so if one does the research and finds that part of themselves then that should be the research that is presented. Also I would encourage those who do not understand and call it a "fantasy" to do more research with a little more of an open heart BUT it seems pretty clear that this group is not capable of that, as demonstrated from the last few posts. These posts have not been put up to further our research, in fact they have probably disuaded many people reading them to just stop looking and feel ashamed, if they have jewish ancestry because of the myth of "clean blood". Well to thoe out there who are still looking -good luck and I am here if anyone wants help.

-Miri AKA Myriam, a jew

Comentario

Buenas tardes, quisiera emitir mi humilde opinión respecto a los comentarios emitidos sobre si los alteños somos descendientes de judios.

Indudable es que desde el descubrimiento de América que coincide con la expulsión de musulmanes y judios de España en 1492 comienza un exodo de éstas personas al mundo mediterraneo y a los nuevos territorios recién descubiertos, éstos hombres y algunas mujeres pasaron en un principio a la Española, Cuba y las Antillas y de ahí a América Continental, muchos musulmanes y principalmente judios conversos pasaron a la Nueva España ello ha sido demostrado en grandes obras de investigación histórica como Los Judios en la Nueva España o la Inquisición en Nueva España por sólo mencionar a algunos. Es un hecho que muchos hombres de los primeros pobladores y conquistadores no fueran hidalgos sino conversos con purezas de sangre compradas tal vez inventadas, eso era algo usual, una pureza de sangre expedida por un cura o notario de pueblo no significaba que fuera siempre real.

Pero de ahí a que los pobladores de Los Altos sean judios al punto de pretender con apellidos o costumbres demostrar el origen hebreo me parece totalmente absurdo, si un judio usara un apellido judio común en la época, para un converso sería delatarse ante todos, sería echarse la soga al cuello, y las costumbres de Los Altos como las de todo México y el Mundo Mediterraneo se parece a muchas tradiciones judias simplemente porque los judios han estado por miles de años en el Mediterraneo y en España.

Los pobladores de Los Altos son españoles no judios ni franceses ni ninguna otra cosa, es probable, casi seguro que tengamos algún antepasado judio converso de hace 500 años pero nuestro origen es España. No hay español que no tenga algún antepasado moro o judio de hace 5 siglos.

Asumamos eso, no busquemos lo que no somos, como dice el marqués de San Clemente: somos retoños de España.

Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: ferraristeph@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 18:18:20 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry
>
> Hello-
>
> I have to say that I am so very dissapointed in most of the comments on this topic. No one should be attacked or belittled because they are trying to unravel the mystery of who they are.
>
> Also there really is no iron clad Jewish DNA, so if one does the research and finds that part of themselves then that should be the research that is presented. Also I would encourage those who do not understand and call it a "fantasy" to do more research with a little more of an open heart BUT it seems pretty clear that this group is not capable of that, as demonstrated from the last few posts. These posts have not been put up to further our research, in fact they have probably disuaded many people reading them to just stop looking and feel ashamed, if they have jewish ancestry because of the myth of "clean blood". Well to thoe out there who are still looking -good luck and I am here if anyone wants help.
>
> -Miri AKA Myriam, a jew
>
>

Comentario

Any one else feel the need to kick a dead horse?

2010/3/9 Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez :
>
> Buenas tardes, quisiera emitir mi humilde opinión respecto a los comentarios emitidos sobre si los alteños somos descendientes de judios.
>
>
>
> Indudable es que desde el descubrimiento de América que coincide con la expulsión de musulmanes y judios de España en 1492 comienza un exodo de éstas personas al mundo mediterraneo y a los nuevos territorios recién descubiertos, éstos hombres y algunas mujeres pasaron en un principio a la Española, Cuba y las Antillas y de ahí a América Continental, muchos musulmanes y principalmente judios conversos pasaron a la Nueva España ello ha sido demostrado en grandes obras de investigación histórica como Los Judios en la Nueva España o la Inquisición en Nueva España por sólo mencionar a algunos. Es un hecho que muchos hombres de los primeros pobladores y conquistadores no fueran hidalgos sino conversos con purezas de sangre compradas tal vez inventadas, eso era algo usual, una pureza de sangre expedida por un cura o notario de pueblo no significaba que fuera siempre real.
>
>
>
> Pero de ahí a que los pobladores de Los Altos sean judios al punto de pretender con apellidos o costumbres demostrar el origen hebreo me parece totalmente absurdo, si un judio usara un apellido judio común en la época, para un converso sería delatarse ante todos, sería echarse la soga al cuello, y las costumbres de Los Altos como las de todo México y el Mundo Mediterraneo se parece a muchas tradiciones judias simplemente porque los judios han estado por miles de años en el Mediterraneo y en España.
>
>
>
> Los pobladores de Los Altos son españoles no judios ni franceses ni ninguna otra cosa, es probable, casi seguro que tengamos algún antepasado judio converso de hace 500 años pero nuestro origen es España. No hay español que no tenga algún antepasado moro o judio de hace 5 siglos.
>
>
>
> Asumamos eso, no busquemos lo que no somos, como dice el marqués de San Clemente: somos retoños de España.
>
>
>
> Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> From: ferraristeph@gmail.com
>> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 18:18:20 -0800
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry
>>
>> Hello-
>>
>> I have to say that I am so very dissapointed in most of the comments on this topic. No one should be attacked or belittled because they are trying to unravel the mystery of who they are.
>>
>> Also there really is no iron clad Jewish DNA, so if one does the research and finds that part of themselves then that should be the research that is presented. Also I would encourage those who do not understand and call it a "fantasy" to do more research with a little more of an open heart BUT it seems pretty clear that this group is not capable of that, as demonstrated from the last few posts. These posts have not been put up to further our research, in fact they have probably disuaded many people reading them to just stop looking and feel ashamed, if they have jewish ancestry because of the myth of "clean blood". Well to thoe out there who are still looking -good luck and I am here if anyone wants help.
>>
>> -Miri AKA Myriam, a jew
>>
>>

Comentario

Siempre es una delicia leer sus disertaciones en el ámbito histórico de Los Altos de Jalisco.
Ni duda cabe que 700 años de Al andaluz, dejarían huella imborrable en la herencia de la población española de la península y de sus colonias o regiones conquistadas.
Pero, de que dimensión es el reducto judío en ¨la sangre¨ del ciudadano común español hoy en día, con todo y las expulsiones ordenadas en su tiempo por Chabela la católica?

En una investigación reciente,
se establecía un perfil genético ibérico promedio en el que el 10.6% de los cromosomas de la
población española presenta características atribuibles a poblaciones
originarias del norte de África, mientras que el 20% provendría de los
ancestros judíos.

El estudio fue hecho
por Científicos de la Unidad de Biología Evolutiva de la Universitat Pompeu
Fabra de Barcelona, especializados en el estudio de la diversidad genética en
las poblaciones humanas. Han acometido la investigación más completa realizada
hasta ahora del ADN de las poblaciones de España, a través del análisis de 300.000
marcadores genéticos en individuos de 10 regiones.

Caso aparte el valenciano, donde la
herencia genética sefardí no supera el 15% mientras la norteafricana es mayor
que en el conjunto de España, un 13%, debido a la mayor influencia histórica de
los moriscos en la Comunitat Valenciana. Esta investigación fue publicada en el
American Journal of Human Genetics.
RESPETUOSAMENTEVICENTE DE SAN MIGUEL

_________________________________________________________________
Enciende tu hotness con Hotmail
www.hotmailhotness.com.mx

Comentario

Vicente, con todo respeto "el judaismo es una religión no una raza", en africa puedes encontrar judios negros.

Ruben Casillas M.

--- El sáb 13-mar-10, VICENTE DE SAN MIGUEL escribió:

De:: VICENTE DE SAN MIGUEL
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry
A: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: sábado, 13 de marzo de 2010, 12:57

Siempre es una delicia leer sus disertaciones en el ámbito histórico de Los Altos de Jalisco.
Ni duda cabe que 700 años de Al andaluz, dejarían huella imborrable en la herencia de la población española de la península y de sus colonias o regiones conquistadas.
Pero, de que dimensión es el reducto judío en ¨la sangre¨ del ciudadano común español hoy en día, con todo y las expulsiones ordenadas en su tiempo por Chabela la católica?

En una  investigación reciente,
se establecía un perfil genético ibérico promedio en el que el 10.6% de los cromosomas de la
población española presenta características atribuibles a poblaciones
originarias del norte de África, mientras que el 20% provendría de los
ancestros judíos.

El estudio fue  hecho
por Científicos de la Unidad de Biología Evolutiva de la Universitat Pompeu
Fabra de Barcelona, especializados en el estudio de la diversidad genética en
las poblaciones humanas. Han acometido la investigación más completa realizada
hasta ahora del ADN de las poblaciones de España, a través del análisis de 300.000
marcadores genéticos en individuos de 10 regiones.

Caso aparte el valenciano,  donde la
herencia genética sefardí no supera el 15% mientras la norteafricana es mayor
que en el conjunto de España, un 13%, debido a la mayor influencia histórica de
los moriscos en la Comunitat Valenciana. Esta investigación fue publicada en el
American Journal of Human Genetics.
RESPETUOSAMENTEVICENTE DE SAN MIGUEL

                         
_________________________________________________________________
Enciende tu hotness con Hotmail
www.hotmailhotness.com.mx

Comentario

En el pasado, Los judios, como los altenos en los ultimos 500 anos se casaban entre familia entonces la genetica de este grupo tiene sus dna markers. Es verdad que es una religion y no una raza pero cuando un grupo no mas se casa entre familia por muchos anos se puede ver el la genetica Nosotros en los alto, los que descendemos de los primeros pobladores tambien tenemos nuestras marcas en el dna.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: ruben casillas moreno
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:14:40
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry

Vicente, con todo respeto "el judaismo es una religión no una raza", en africa puedes encontrar judios negros.

Ruben Casillas M.

--- El sáb 13-mar-10, VICENTE DE SAN MIGUEL escribió:

De:: VICENTE DE SAN MIGUEL
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry
A: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: sábado, 13 de marzo de 2010, 12:57

Siempre es una delicia leer sus disertaciones en el ámbito histórico de Los Altos de Jalisco.
Ni duda cabe que 700 años de Al andaluz, dejarían huella imborrable en la herencia de la población española de la península y de sus colonias o regiones conquistadas.
Pero, de que dimensión es el reducto judío en ¨la sangre¨ del ciudadano común español hoy en día, con todo y las expulsiones ordenadas en su tiempo por Chabela la católica?

En una  investigación reciente,
se establecía un perfil genético ibérico promedio en el que el 10.6% de los cromosomas de la
población española presenta características atribuibles a poblaciones
originarias del norte de África, mientras que el 20% provendría de los
ancestros judíos.

El estudio fue  hecho
por Científicos de la Unidad de Biología Evolutiva de la Universitat Pompeu
Fabra de Barcelona, especializados en el estudio de la diversidad genética en
las poblaciones humanas. Han acometido la investigación más completa realizada
hasta ahora del ADN de las poblaciones de España, a través del análisis de 300.000
marcadores genéticos en individuos de 10 regiones.

Caso aparte el valenciano,  donde la
herencia genética sefardí no supera el 15% mientras la norteafricana es mayor
que en el conjunto de España, un 13%, debido a la mayor influencia histórica de
los moriscos en la Comunitat Valenciana. Esta investigación fue publicada en el
American Journal of Human Genetics.
RESPETUOSAMENTEVICENTE DE SAN MIGUEL

                         
_________________________________________________________________
Enciende tu hotness con Hotmail
www.hotmailhotness.com.mx

Comentario

Estimado Rubén en el judaismo raza y religión es lo mismo, el caso que usted mensiona es un accidente producido por la diáspora judia y crame que la mayoría de los judios son muy racistas y a eso se debe en gran medida su conservación a través del tiempo.

Es por eso que me causa un poco de extrañeza como mucha gente trata de ser un "poco" judio mediante la búsqueda de sus antepasados judios.

El judaismo, "lo judío" se transmite por vientre, es como la esclavitud, lo dá la mujer, es judío el hijo de la judía. Para ellos los hijos de un judio con una goi como ellos llaman a las personas no judias, son bastardos y nunca serán judíos por más méritos o conversiones que hagan. Esa forma de ver el mundo se asentúa más en las comunidades judías pequeñas como la de México que no supera los 60mil judíos en todo el país, no así en Estados Unidos en donde la propia sociedad y cultura facilitan la asimilación en cada una de las comunidades.

Hasta pronto.

Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez

> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:14:40 -0800
> From: rubenazo_casillas@yahoo.com.mx
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry
>
> Vicente, con todo respeto "el judaismo es una religión no una raza", en africa puedes encontrar judios negros.
>
> Ruben Casillas M.
>
> --- El sáb 13-mar-10, VICENTE DE SAN MIGUEL escribió:
>
>
> De:: VICENTE DE SAN MIGUEL
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry
> A: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Fecha: sábado, 13 de marzo de 2010, 12:57
>
>
>
> Siempre es una delicia leer sus disertaciones en el ámbito histórico de Los Altos de Jalisco.
> Ni duda cabe que 700 años de Al andaluz, dejarían huella imborrable en la herencia de la población española de la península y de sus colonias o regiones conquistadas.
> Pero, de que dimensión es el reducto judío en ¨la sangre¨ del ciudadano común español hoy en día, con todo y las expulsiones ordenadas en su tiempo por Chabela la católica?
>
>
>
> En una investigación reciente,
> se establecía un perfil genético ibérico promedio en el que el 10.6% de los cromosomas de la
> población española presenta características atribuibles a poblaciones
> originarias del norte de África, mientras que el 20% provendría de los
> ancestros judíos.
>
> El estudio fue hecho
> por Científicos de la Unidad de Biología Evolutiva de la Universitat Pompeu
> Fabra de Barcelona, especializados en el estudio de la diversidad genética en
> las poblaciones humanas. Han acometido la investigación más completa realizada
> hasta ahora del ADN de las poblaciones de España, a través del análisis de 300.000
> marcadores genéticos en individuos de 10 regiones.
>
>
>
>
>
> Caso aparte el valenciano, donde la
> herencia genética sefardí no supera el 15% mientras la norteafricana es mayor
> que en el conjunto de España, un 13%, debido a la mayor influencia histórica de
> los moriscos en la Comunitat Valenciana. Esta investigación fue publicada en el
> American Journal of Human Genetics.
> RESPETUOSAMENTEVICENTE DE SAN MIGUEL
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Enciende tu hotness con Hotmail
> www.hotmailhotness.com.mx

Comentario

Muy estimado Rodolfo. Coincido con usted al cien por ciento.
Para Manuel Hernández Gómez del Colegio de Jalisco, en Los
Altos., Atotonilco y Teocaltiche se tuvieron los primeros asentamientos de judíos
conversos. En Tepatitlán, la cúpula de la parroquia de San Francisco está
rodeada de estrellas de David, símbolo del pueblo judío.

La influencia cultural judía está presente en el sistema patriarcal, donde el hombre más
viejo toma las decisiones en todos los órdenes respecto a su familia.

Asentado en su libro "La presencia judía en el México
colonial".Antes de que me destrocen a este autor como al Dr. Gutiérrez, les digo que de entrada los argumentos que expone me parecen blandengues., sin embargo, durante 16 años que trabajé para distintintas instituciones de crédito en Guadalajara, Los Altos y El Bajío, conocí muchísima gente hombres y mujeres que conservan rasgos morfológicos (sobre todo faciales), de extraordinario parecido con los israelitas de la actualidad. Claro, ellos son mexicanos comunes como el mole y no andan pensando si descienden de aquellos o tales ancestros, pues nada tienen que ver con la actual comunidad israelita de Guadalajara puante y emprendedora, por ejemplo. Para el mexicano ordinario, poseer 3 ó 4 gotas de sangre judía, no lo hace judío, pues este hecho no pasa de ser un accidente en grado de conceptualización aristotélica, además de que en general y lejos de todo ánimo de ser discriminatorio, el serlo tiene para la gente común un cierto tinte de tacañería y avaricia. Prometo no polemizar mas al respecto.Saludos.Vicente de San Miguel

> From: bensinai@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 13:21:57 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry
>
>
> Estimado Rubén en el judaismo raza y religión es lo mismo, el caso que usted mensiona es un accidente producido por la diáspora judia y crame que la mayoría de los judios son muy racistas y a eso se debe en gran medida su conservación a través del tiempo.
>
>
>
> Es por eso que me causa un poco de extrañeza como mucha gente trata de ser un "poco" judio mediante la búsqueda de sus antepasados judios.
>
>
>
> El judaismo, "lo judío" se transmite por vientre, es como la esclavitud, lo dá la mujer, es judío el hijo de la judía. Para ellos los hijos de un judio con una goi como ellos llaman a las personas no judias, son bastardos y nunca serán judíos por más méritos o conversiones que hagan. Esa forma de ver el mundo se asentúa más en las comunidades judías pequeñas como la de México que no supera los 60mil judíos en todo el país, no así en Estados Unidos en donde la propia sociedad y cultura facilitan la asimilación en cada una de las comunidades.
>
>
>
> Hasta pronto.
>
>
>
> Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:14:40 -0800
> > From: rubenazo_casillas@yahoo.com.mx
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry
> >
> > Vicente, con todo respeto "el judaismo es una religión no una raza", en africa puedes encontrar judios negros.
> >
> > Ruben Casillas M.
> >
> > --- El sáb 13-mar-10, VICENTE DE SAN MIGUEL escribió:
> >
> >
> > De:: VICENTE DE SAN MIGUEL
> > Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry
> > A: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Fecha: sábado, 13 de marzo de 2010, 12:57
> >
> >
> >
> > Siempre es una delicia leer sus disertaciones en el ámbito histórico de Los Altos de Jalisco.
> > Ni duda cabe que 700 años de Al andaluz, dejarían huella imborrable en la herencia de la población española de la península y de sus colonias o regiones conquistadas.
> > Pero, de que dimensión es el reducto judío en ¨la sangre¨ del ciudadano común español hoy en día, con todo y las expulsiones ordenadas en su tiempo por Chabela la católica?
> >
> >
> >
> > En una investigación reciente,
> > se establecía un perfil genético ibérico promedio en el que el 10.6% de los cromosomas de la
> > población española presenta características atribuibles a poblaciones
> > originarias del norte de África, mientras que el 20% provendría de los
> > ancestros judíos.
> >
> > El estudio fue hecho
> > por Científicos de la Unidad de Biología Evolutiva de la Universitat Pompeu
> > Fabra de Barcelona, especializados en el estudio de la diversidad genética en
> > las poblaciones humanas. Han acometido la investigación más completa realizada
> > hasta ahora del ADN de las poblaciones de España, a través del análisis de 300.000
> > marcadores genéticos en individuos de 10 regiones.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Caso aparte el valenciano, donde la
> > herencia genética sefardí no supera el 15% mientras la norteafricana es mayor
> > que en el conjunto de España, un 13%, debido a la mayor influencia histórica de
> > los moriscos en la Comunitat Valenciana. Esta investigación fue publicada en el
> > American Journal of Human Genetics.
> > RESPETUOSAMENTEVICENTE DE SAN MIGUEL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Enciende tu hotness con Hotmail
> > www.hotmailhotness.com.mx
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> >
> > Encuentra las mejores recetas en Yahoo! Cocina.
> > http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Prefiero un día sin coche que sin Messenger
> www.vivirmessenger.com

Comentario

Estimados miembros de NR,
Tenia entendido que opiniones hacerca de este tema no iban a continuar en Foro de Investigacion, a reserva de aportaciones donde informacion bien documentada de caracter genealogico (nombres, fechas y lugares). Creo que opiniones de este tipo no tienen lugar en este foro, sino en el Foro General. Alguien lo dijo bien, hasta cuando vamos a "seguir pateando al caballo muerto?"

Dear members of NR,
I was under the impresion that specific guidelines were given regarding stop using the Research Forum to give opinion on the subject, and only use this Forum when well documented genealogical information (names, dates, and localities) is provided. I concur that there is no room for opinions in this specific Forum. Instead, they should be posted in the General Forum. Someone put it this way: For how long are we going to beat this dead horse?

Sincerely

Jaime

Comentario

I have traced my acestry to 2 different rabbis living in Spain before the expulsion. My actestors were members of the Carabajal de Cueva group that landed in Tampico and colonized NE Mexico. One of these lines was through the Saldivar line. The other was through my Morales line. Can't get more jewish than that.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from ferraristeph@gmail.com: --------------

> Hello-
> I have to say that I am so very dissapointed in most of the comments on this topic. No one should be attacked or belittled because they are trying to unravel
> the mystery of who they are.
> Also there really is no iron clad Jewish DNA, so if one does the research and finds that part of themselves then that should be the research that is presented. Also I would encourage those who do not understand and call it a "fantasy" to do more research with a little more of an open heart BUT it seems pretty clear that this group is not capable of that, as demonstrated from the last few posts. These posts have not been put up to further our research, in fact they have probably disuaded many people reading them to just stop looking and feel ashamed, if they have jewish ancestry because of the myth of "clean blood". Well to thoe out there who are still looking -good luck and I am here if
> anyone wants help.
>
> -Miri AKA Myriam, a jew
>
>

Comentario

Esther, do you know if this is part of your de la Cueva Carabajal line?  This record is from Jerez Zacatecas Mexico and the Caldera line goes back to Maria Cid Caldera, sister of El Capitan Miguel Caldera.

Marriage: 5 June 1732 in Jerez
Manuel de la Cueva y Carabajal
parents: Lasaro de la Cueva and Juana Lopes, deceased
with: Maria Magdalena Caldera, Espanola
parents: Joseph Caldera and Alfonsa Ortis
padrinos: Juan de Medrano and Xabal Roman
source: church marriage record #0440059

________________________________
From: "eaherold@att.net"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, March 13, 2010 2:08:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry

I have traced my acestry to 2 different rabbis living in Spain before the expulsion.  My actestors were members of the Carabajal de Cueva group that landed in Tampico and colonized NE Mexico.  One of these lines was through the Saldivar line.  The other was through my Morales line. Can't get more jewish than that.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from ferraristeph@gmail.com: --------------

> Hello-
> I have to say that I am so very dissapointed in most of the comments on this topic. No one should be attacked or belittled because they are trying to unravel
> the mystery of who they are.
> Also there really is no iron clad Jewish DNA, so if one does the research and finds that part of themselves then that should be the research that is presented. Also I would encourage those who do not understand and call it a "fantasy" to do more research with a little more of an open heart BUT it seems pretty clear that this group is not capable of that, as demonstrated from the last few posts. These posts have not been put up to further our research, in fact they have probably disuaded many people reading them to just stop looking and feel ashamed, if they have jewish ancestry because of the myth of "clean blood". Well to thoe out there who are still looking -good luck and I am here if
> anyone wants help.
>
> -Miri AKA Myriam, a jew
>
>

Comentario

My Sanchez Navarro line goes toMelchora Sanchez Navarro, daughter of Juan Navarro and Maria Rodriguez, daughter of Baltazar Castano de Sosa, brother of Gaspar Castano de Sosa(explored New Mexico and captured by Inquisition) and Inez Rodriguez, daughter of Diego Montemayor and his wife Inez Rodriguez. Diego Montemayor was Carbajal's Lt Governor.
Castano de SOsa met Carbajal when he landed in Tampico and were his friends and came before him.

I also descend from Melchora's other sister's, Beatriz and Inez. Beatriz married (1)Alonso de Sosa Albernoz and had a daughter Ana de Sosa who married a Zaldivar. Inez married a Martinez who I believe came with Carbajal. His dna looks semetic.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from Erlinda Castanon-Long : --------------

Esther, do you know if this is part of your de la Cueva Carabajal line? This record is from Jerez Zacatecas Mexico and the Caldera line goes back to Maria
> Cid Caldera, sister of El Capitan Miguel Caldera.
>
> Marriage: 5 June 1732 in Jerez
> Manuel de la Cueva y Carabajal
> parents: Lasaro de la Cueva and Juana Lopes, deceased
> with: Maria Magdalena Caldera, Espanola
> parents: Joseph Caldera and Alfonsa Ortis
> padrinos: Juan de Medrano and Xabal Roman
> source: church marriage record #0440059
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "eaherold@att.net"
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Sat, March 13, 2010 2:08:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry
> I have traced my acestry to 2 different rabbis living in Spain before the expulsion. My actestors were members of the Carabajal de Cueva group that landed in Tampico and colonized NE Mexico. One of these lines was through the Saldivar line. The other was through my Morales line. Can't get more jewish
> than that.
> --
> Esther A. Herold
>
> -------------- Original message from ferraristeph@gmail.com: --------------
>
>
> > Hello-
> > I have to say that I am so very dissapointed in most of the comments on this
> topic. No one should be attacked or belittled because they are trying to unravel
> > the mystery of who they are.
> > Also there really is no iron clad Jewish DNA, so if one does the research and
> finds that part of themselves then that should be the research that is
> presented. Also I would encourage those who do not understand and call it a
> "fantasy" to do more research with a little more of an open heart BUT it seems
> pretty clear that this group is not capable of that, as demonstrated from the
> last few posts. These posts have not been put up to further our research, in
> fact they have probably disuaded many people reading them to just stop looking
> and feel ashamed, if they have jewish ancestry because of the myth of "clean
> blood". Well to thoe out there who are still looking -good luck and I am here if
> > anyone wants help.
> >
> > -Miri AKA Myriam, a jew
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Comentario

Luis Carbajal landed at Tampico in the mid 1500s. Most of his line was extinguished by the Inquisition about 1592. I descend from passengers that were with him when he landed. They came ffrom Portugal. SOme of his sisters married but their descendands did not carry the CUeva Carbahal name.
Some of his brothers escaped to Italy but changed their name to Lambrusco.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from Erlinda Castanon-Long : --------------

Esther, do you know if this is part of your de la Cueva Carabajal line? This record is from Jerez Zacatecas Mexico and the Caldera line goes back to Maria
> Cid Caldera, sister of El Capitan Miguel Caldera.
>
> Marriage: 5 June 1732 in Jerez
> Manuel de la Cueva y Carabajal
> parents: Lasaro de la Cueva and Juana Lopes, deceased
> with: Maria Magdalena Caldera, Espanola
> parents: Joseph Caldera and Alfonsa Ortis
> padrinos: Juan de Medrano and Xabal Roman
> source: church marriage record #0440059
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "eaherold@att.net"
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Sat, March 13, 2010 2:08:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry
> I have traced my acestry to 2 different rabbis living in Spain before the expulsion. My actestors were members of the Carabajal de Cueva group that landed in Tampico and colonized NE Mexico. One of these lines was through the Saldivar line. The other was through my Morales line. Can't get more jewish
> than that.
> --
> Esther A. Herold
>
> -------------- Original message from ferraristeph@gmail.com: --------------
>
>
> > Hello-
> > I have to say that I am so very dissapointed in most of the comments on this
> topic. No one should be attacked or belittled because they are trying to unravel
> > the mystery of who they are.
> > Also there really is no iron clad Jewish DNA, so if one does the research and
> finds that part of themselves then that should be the research that is
> presented. Also I would encourage those who do not understand and call it a
> "fantasy" to do more research with a little more of an open heart BUT it seems
> pretty clear that this group is not capable of that, as demonstrated from the
> last few posts. These posts have not been put up to further our research, in
> fact they have probably disuaded many people reading them to just stop looking
> and feel ashamed, if they have jewish ancestry because of the myth of "clean
> blood". Well to thoe out there who are still looking -good luck and I am here if
> > anyone wants help.
> >
> > -Miri AKA Myriam, a jew
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Comentario

thank you Esther for checking for me.. I appreciate your efforts.

Linda in Marietta

________________________________
From: "eaherold@att.net"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sun, March 21, 2010 11:49:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry

Luis Carbajal landed at Tampico in the mid 1500s.  Most of his line was extinguished by the Inquisition about 1592.  I descend from passengers that were with him when he landed.  They came ffrom Portugal.  SOme of his sisters married but their descendands did not carry the CUeva Carbahal name.
Some of his brothers escaped to Italy but changed their name to Lambrusco.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from Erlinda Castanon-Long : --------------

Esther, do you know if this is part of your de la Cueva Carabajal line?  This record is from Jerez Zacatecas Mexico and the Caldera line goes back to Maria
> Cid Caldera, sister of El Capitan Miguel Caldera.
>
> Marriage: 5 June 1732 in Jerez
> Manuel de la Cueva y Carabajal
> parents: Lasaro de la Cueva and Juana Lopes, deceased
> with: Maria Magdalena Caldera, Espanola
> parents: Joseph Caldera and Alfonsa Ortis
> padrinos: Juan de Medrano and Xabal Roman
> source: church marriage record #0440059
>
>
>

Comentario

Hello there Esther ,

It´s been awhile that you and I have talked . My interest in you mail is through the Saldivar line .

By any chance do you have the migration of the Saldivars that ended up in Nuevo Leon . My connection to them is through my GG Grandmother Maria Quirina Saldivar Gomez married to Candelario Alvarado . They married 26 of Oct. 1844 in the Villa de Santiago , Nuevo Leon .

Best to you ,

Welester

> I have traced my acestry to 2 different rabbis living in Spain before the expulsion. My actestors were members of the Carabajal de Cueva group that landed in Tampico and colonized NE Mexico. One of these lines was through the Saldivar line. The other was through my Morales line. Can't get more jewish than that.
> --
> Esther A. Herold

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL…

Comentario

Miri,

Jose Esquibel has traced our Onate/Saldivar line to Abraham ha Levi and his son Solomon Ha Levi who were rabbis in Burgos, Spain. I know Solomon converted to Catholicism but I am looking for more information on the line. I know that Abraham was supposedly a friend of the King of Spain but do know know more than that. It wasn't the Abraham Ha Levi that was a poet. I think that one lived in a different part of Eurpoe.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from ferraristeph@gmail.com: --------------

> Hello-
> I have to say that I am so very dissapointed in most of the comments on this topic. No one should be attacked or belittled because they are trying to unravel
> the mystery of who they are.
> Also there really is no iron clad Jewish DNA, so if one does the research and finds that part of themselves then that should be the research that is presented. Also I would encourage those who do not understand and call it a "fantasy" to do more research with a little more of an open heart BUT it seems pretty clear that this group is not capable of that, as demonstrated from the last few posts. These posts have not been put up to further our research, in fact they have probably disuaded many people reading them to just stop looking and feel ashamed, if they have jewish ancestry because of the myth of "clean blood". Well to thoe out there who are still looking -good luck and I am here if
> anyone wants help.
>
> -Miri AKA Myriam, a jew
>
>

Comentario

If I recall correctly they were businessmen with a highly regarded reputation of honesty and follow through.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: eaherold@att.net
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 19:16:29
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry

Miri,

Jose Esquibel has traced our Onate/Saldivar line to Abraham ha Levi and his son Solomon Ha Levi who were rabbis in Burgos, Spain. I know Solomon converted to Catholicism but I am looking for more information on the line. I know that Abraham was supposedly a friend of the King of Spain but do know know more than that. It wasn't the Abraham Ha Levi that was a poet. I think that one lived in a different part of Eurpoe.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from ferraristeph@gmail.com: --------------

> Hello-
> I have to say that I am so very dissapointed in most of the comments on this topic. No one should be attacked or belittled because they are trying to unravel
> the mystery of who they are.
> Also there really is no iron clad Jewish DNA, so if one does the research and finds that part of themselves then that should be the research that is presented. Also I would encourage those who do not understand and call it a "fantasy" to do more research with a little more of an open heart BUT it seems pretty clear that this group is not capable of that, as demonstrated from the last few posts. These posts have not been put up to further our research, in fact they have probably disuaded many people reading them to just stop looking and feel ashamed, if they have jewish ancestry because of the myth of "clean blood". Well to thoe out there who are still looking -good luck and I am here if
> anyone wants help.
>
> -Miri AKA Myriam, a jew
>
>

DNA Survey Participants Needed

Published by romero89 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hi,

I recently took part in a survey about how DNA genealogy research has
affected me. They are particularly interest in people with different
ethnic influences in their background.

Español / English

Published by Eduardo H Seoane –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

Pienso que muchas personas no están participando en este foro por falta del entendimiento del idioma ingles o español (castellano).

Comentarios

Comentario

Para los miembros que solo escriben en español y gustarían participar mas seguido en este foro, pueden usar el servicio gratis de Google para traducir lo que no entienden (escrito en ingles), y también para traducir lo que quieran (escrito en español) antes de agregarlo al foro.
http://translate.google.com/#

Muy fácil si utilizan el COPY/PASTE. No sale perfecto, pero se puede entender mas-o-menos lo que quieren decir y habría mas participación.

[*Les pido me disculpen el español mal escrito, escribo mayormente en ingles.]

---
May I suggest using Google's free online translator?
http://translate.google.com/#

Jornalero

Published by Roxie4genealogy –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

Would the term “Jornalero,” referenced in civil records from San Miguel el Alto, Jalisco during the late 1800’s, have the same translation today?

Comentarios

Comentario

Roxanne,

I would like to add to Emily's response. It's true that "jornalero" is a very old word in Spanish. The words "jornal, jornada, jornalero" all derive from the same root word. Webster's unabridged dictionary shows that Old French had the words "journal, jornal, jurnal" and all meant "daily". The Latin word "dies = day" and "diurnalis = daily" eventually morphed into the Spanish words above. The English word "journey" used to mean a day's work. That meaning for journey is obsolete now. "Jornalero" simply means a person who works per "jornada". [Words can be interesting.]

David in Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: roxanneocampo@sbcglobal.net
>Sent: Mar 20, 2010 7:44 PM
>To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jornalero
>
>Would the term “Jornalero,” referenced in civil records from San Miguel el Alto, Jalisco during the late 1800’s, have the same translation today? I’ve heard several translations of this term including “day laborer,”and “agricultural worker.” Since the concept of a “day laborer” would not have existed during that time period, does anyone have a historically correct definition?
>Gracias, Roxanne Ocampo
>

Comentario

I think day laborers have always existed. Jornal means "work by the day". Ranchers would farm out their temporary help wherever needed for the day or other time period, or those who didn't have land would travel around looking for work.

In New Mexico there is a place called Jornada del Muerto. It was a desert that took one day to cross in the 1500s to 1800s before fast cars, and you were dead if the Apaches caught you there or you died of thirst, etc. The Spaniards in the late 1500s named it that, so the term "jornalero" has been around for centuries.

Emilie

Port Orchard, WA

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: roxanneocampo@sbcglobal.net
> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 16:44:42 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jornalero
>
> Would the term “Jornalero,” referenced in civil records from San Miguel el Alto, Jalisco during the late 1800’s, have the same translation today? I’ve heard several translations of this term including “day laborer,”and “agricultural worker.” Since the concept of a “day laborer” would not have existed during that time period, does anyone have a historically correct definition?
> Gracias, Roxanne Ocampo
>

Family Tree Maker in Spanish / Espaniol ?

Published by serna_david –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Is the program available in Espanol or what program is being used ?

Comentarios

Comentario

David Serna Its curious How this post could have this many posts without addressing my original post of what Software is available to Espanol Speakers . I am using Family Tree Maker but it doesnt seem to be available in Spanish.

Comentario

Yo tambien estaba frustrado al no poder encontrar un programa en Español. Finalmente encontre Myheritage, disponible gratis en www.myheritage.com. Este programa funciona en dozenas de idiomas, y puedes cambiar entre ellos en tiempo real. De forma que si necesitas un reporte en aleman, hebreo, ingles, frances o español, solamente seleccionas un incono con un bandera correspondiente al pais (=idioma) y listo.
Ahora, existen algunos inconvenientes, uno de ellos es que la compañia que lo vende hace su negocio con la version Premium que te da espacio de web para que publiques tu genealogia (con la gratis solo puedes tener acceso a publicar en su sitio de web 1000 individuos). Aunque no es my caro el servicio, yo preferiria comprar el programa, y no tener que pagar renta. Al no comprarlo, cotidianamente (cada semana), o cuando aumenta el tamano de tu genealogia, te aparece una ventana sugiriendo que compres Premium (el programa tiene otros beneficios no disponibles en la version gratis).
Yo te recomiendo que lo bajes y haber si te gusta.

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

A Spanish version of Legacy is in testing.

http://www.legacyfamilytree.com/InternationalLegacyVersions.asp

On Mar 19, 2010, at 5:44 AM, mooskies4@aol.com wrote:

David Serna Its curious How this post could have this many posts without addressing my original post of what Software is available to Espanol Speakers . I am using Family Tree Maker but it doesnt seem to be available in Spanish. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List

To post, send email to:
research(at)nuestrosranchos.org

To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Comentario

You can go to FamilySearch.org and download a free copy of PAF 4.0 which
has a Spanish version that is not available on PAF 5.2

Puedes ir a FamilySearch.org para hacer download una copia gratis de PAF
4.0 que tiene una version en Espanol que no esta en el PAF 5.2

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

Patti Wyble wrote:
> A Spanish version of Legacy is in testing.
>
> http://www.legacyfamilytree.com/InternationalLegacyVersions.asp
>
>
> On Mar 19, 2010, at 5:44 AM, mooskies4@aol.com wrote:
>
> David Serna Its curious How this post could have this many posts
without addressing my original post of what Software is available to
Espanol Speakers . I am using Family Tree Maker but it doesnt seem to be
available in Spanish. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

Comentario

I have a question that I think I know the answer to, but I am hoping I am wrong.

I've traced a couple dozen Calvillo, Aguascalientes families back into the parish registers of Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa del Refugio, Zacatecas. So I find the baptisms of many people who were later married in Calvillo here. The baptisms start in 1747, but the marriages only go back to 1774.

So far, every search I have done in the IGI in an attempt to find marriages of known families in Santa Maria Mecatabasco inhabitants has failed. (I was hoping they were married in Ciudad de Aguascalientes or Teul, or somewhere else.) Would I be correct in assuming that the pre-1774 marriages are either lost or not filmed?

In tracing Calvillo families, half seem to go to the Ciudad de Aguascalientes and a quarter go to Cieneguilla or San Jose de Gracia, and another quarter go to Villa del Refugio. Is there any hope of finding that the pre-1774 marriage exist, or does this indeed represent an irretrievable black hole for researchers?

John P. Schmal

Comentario

Thanks for your response, Rose:

I have another question I thought you might have suggestions about.

As you know Cieneguilla baptisms are available from 1716 to 1814, no
marriages. Some Calvillo people back up into Cieneguilla pre-1772 and I
have found the marriages of some of these Cieneguilla in La Ciudad, so
I think Cieneguilla was part of La Ciudad's parish, just as it is still
part of that municipio. Would you agree that there probably are no
marriages for Cieneguilla?

Also, San Jose de Gracia, we have baptisms from 1733, but, here again,
no marriages. And here again, I suspect that perhaps the marriages
took place in La Ciudad, but perhaps I am wrong; maybe they are also
missing, just as the marriages for Santa Maria Mecatabasco.

The Calvillo records are wonderful; it's just terrible that so many of
the people from Calvillo come from places where we don't have marriage
records available to help us put a complete puzzle together.

So, again, if anyone has any suggestions about the marriage records for
Cieneguilla or San Jose de Gracia, I'd love to hear from you. I'm
prepared to bad news, but feel free to cheer me up.

John P. Schmal

Comentario

Hi John,
I like many research the area known as "El Valle de Huejucar" this makes upTabasco down to Huanusco and Jalpa then to Calvillo. I believe therecords start in 1747. Prior to that people, it is interesting, as you may recallTabasco received people from Aguascalientes, Calvillo, Nochistlan, Jalpa,Tlatanengo, Villanueva and Teocaltiche. All sorts of places, I never found outwhat was the cause of going to Tabasco while just going to their nearby parish.I do believe La Cieneguilla was parto f Aguascalientes parish, since in recordsit says "jurrisdiction of this parish". The hacienda of Cienguilla had of course itsown chapel but it did not meant it was its own parish. Try looking for the marriagesin Aguascalientes. Marriages were probably seen more important thus it might havebeen more proper to go to the city. We ought to also remember the priestwould travel around and preform rites.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: rosehardy@hotmail.com; general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 00:33:10 -0400
> From: johnnypj@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The Black Hole of Santa Maria Mecatabasco
>
> Thanks for your response, Rose:
>
> I have another question I thought you might have suggestions about.
>
> As you know Cieneguilla baptisms are available from 1716 to 1814, no
> marriages. Some Calvillo people back up into Cieneguilla pre-1772 and I
> have found the marriages of some of these Cieneguilla in La Ciudad, so
> I think Cieneguilla was part of La Ciudad's parish, just as it is still
> part of that municipio. Would you agree that there probably are no
> marriages for Cieneguilla?
>
> Also, San Jose de Gracia, we have baptisms from 1733, but, here again,
> no marriages. And here again, I suspect that perhaps the marriages
> took place in La Ciudad, but perhaps I am wrong; maybe they are also
> missing, just as the marriages for Santa Maria Mecatabasco.
>
> The Calvillo records are wonderful; it's just terrible that so many of
> the people from Calvillo come from places where we don't have marriage
> records available to help us put a complete puzzle together.
>
> So, again, if anyone has any suggestions about the marriage records for
> Cieneguilla or San Jose de Gracia, I'd love to hear from you. I'm
> prepared to bad news, but feel free to cheer me up.
>
> John P. Schmal
>
>
>
>

Comentario

My compliments to Rose Hardy and Dave Valdez for the spectacular resource, "A Genealogical Look at the 1648 Padron of Aguascalientes." It's a real prize.

I am writing to ask if anyone has any information about the first Gallegos to come to Nueva Galicia. I'm researching the Calvillo Gallegos, most of whom appear to be descended from Jose Joaquin Gallegos (born March 21, baptized April 8, 1731, Cieneguilla, Aguascalientes), son of Vicente Gallegos and Rosa Lopez de Nava.

I know that any of you who have done research on Gallegos know that Vicente Gallegos was the son of Domingo Gallegos and Josefa Ramirez, who were married in 1692, and that Domingo was the son of Gabriel Gallegos. These people were mentioned in Retonos.

I am not clear where they came from España or when they came to Santa Maria de los Lagos and then Aguascalientes. If anyone has more information than I do, I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks.

John P. Schmal

Comentario

I will look up my research on gallegos but if I recall correctly the gallegos that I have traced came from santa maria de los lagos and descended from hernando martel
------Original Message------
From: Johnnypj@aol.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gallegos of Calvillo and Ciudad de Aguascalientes
Sent: Mar 14, 2010 8:51 PM

My compliments to Rose Hardy and Dave Valdez for the spectacular resource, "A Genealogical Look at the 1648 Padron of Aguascalientes." It's a real prize.

I am writing to ask if anyone has any information about the first Gallegos to come to Nueva Galicia. I'm researching the Calvillo Gallegos, most of whom appear to be descended from Jose Joaquin Gallegos (born March 21, baptized April 8, 1731, Cieneguilla, Aguascalientes), son of Vicente Gallegos and Rosa Lopez de Nava.

I know that any of you who have done research on Gallegos know that Vicente Gallegos was the son of Domingo Gallegos and Josefa Ramirez, who were married in 1692, and that Domingo was the son of Gabriel Gallegos. These people were mentioned in Retonos.

I am not clear where they came from España or when they came to Santa Maria de los Lagos and then Aguascalientes. If anyone has more information than I do, I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks.

John P. Schmal

Comentario

While on the topic of the Gallegos family: I have this family, Bartolome Alonso de los Hinojosborn ca. 1665 in Aguascalientes who married Juana Gallegos sometime ca. 1690. Juana Gallgoswas from Santa Maria de los Lagos. She is sometimes seen as Juana Gallegos (her son ManuelAlonso de los Hinojos' marriage; my ancestor) then in the death of her son Franciscoshe lis listed as Juana de Amador, also in most of her children's baptism Amador is dominant.Then in her daughter Maria's death she is listed as Juana Gutierrez. All her kids were born in Lagosde Moreno. I know for a fact this is the same Juana! I have studied her kids. Bartolome is alwayslisted as Bartolome Alonso de los Hinojos. I wonder id Juana is a relative of Gabriel Gallegos,she could be a daughter? I just dont know how she used three last names!
Juana Gutierez de AmadorJuana GutierrezJuana de AmadorJuana Gallegos.
Regards,Daniel
Any help?

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: Johnnypj@aol.com
> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 20:51:22 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gallegos of Calvillo and Ciudad de Aguascalientes
>
> My compliments to Rose Hardy and Dave Valdez for the spectacular resource, "A Genealogical Look at the 1648 Padron of Aguascalientes." It's a real prize.
>
> I am writing to ask if anyone has any information about the first Gallegos to come to Nueva Galicia. I'm researching the Calvillo Gallegos, most of whom appear to be descended from Jose Joaquin Gallegos (born March 21, baptized April 8, 1731, Cieneguilla, Aguascalientes), son of Vicente Gallegos and Rosa Lopez de Nava.
>
> I know that any of you who have done research on Gallegos know that Vicente Gallegos was the son of Domingo Gallegos and Josefa Ramirez, who were married in 1692, and that Domingo was the son of Gabriel Gallegos. These people were mentioned in Retonos.
>
> I am not clear where they came from España or when they came to Santa Maria de los Lagos and then Aguascalientes. If anyone has more information than I do, I'd love to hear from you.
>
> Thanks.
>
> John P. Schmal
>
>
>

Sernas-Esparsa-Ruis of La Presa Ags.- Tabasco-Agostaero-Jalpa / Opinions on the Path of Origin & Direction of Settlement.

Published by serna_david –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I am asking for researchers opinions and supporting records for the paths of Sernas Origin in these areas.

Comentarios

Comentario

Mooskies,

I don't know what your name is, therefore I'll address you by your e-mail name.

I do have some Serna's in my files from Nochistlan, Zac and while I'm not related to them they are prominent. They originally came from La Leonera near Jalpa Zacatecas. La Leonera was a mining community, so you might want to look deeper into Jalpa and Nochistlan Zacatecas and maybe even Juchipila.

Alicia,
San Jose, Calif

________________________________
From: "mooskies4@aol.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, March 20, 2010 7:41:01 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sernas-Esparsa-Ruis of La Presa Ags.- Tabasco-Agostaero-Jalpa / Opinions on the Path of Origin & Direction of Settlement.

I am asking for researchers opinions and supporting records for the paths of Sernas Origin in these areas.
The lines I have in my database of 3000 people, from 1790 to 1900 which is 95% + only from the Calvillo, Ags. church records.
The Sernas of My Direct lines early records came from Agostadero and Arroyo de Soto Settling in Media Luna. Some settled in La Presa. I have seen some documents indicating some movement between Teocaltiche, Jal. & Villa Hidalgo, Jal. which is another area of concentrated Serna Families. I have almost no evidence of Origin refering to Ags.,Ags. but I have never reviewed the Aguascalientes records. While Ags. became a direction of settlement. In my case the earliest data seems to be in the "Black Hole" records of Tabasco, Zac. Huanusco,Zac. Jalpa, Zacatecas. I have been unable to decide what direction to continue research when future records become available. Notchistlan,Jal. ? Villa Hidalgo, Jal. Tepatitlan, Jal. Or Tabasco & Huanusco, Zac.
If John Schmale, Daniel Menedez C. , Rose Hardy or anyone else has contibutions I would be happy to hear it.
Estoy pidiendo opiniones de los investigadores y expedientes favorables para las trayectorias del origen de Los Sernas en estas áreas. Las líneas que tengo en mi base de datos de 3000 personas, a partir la 1790 a 1900 que es el 95% + solamente del Calvillo, Ags. expedientes de la iglesia.
Los Sernas de mis líneas directas expedientes vino temprano de Agostadero y de Arroyo de Soto Settling en los medios Luna. Algunos colocaron en el La Presa. He visto algunos documentos el indicar de un cierto movimiento entre Teocaltiche, Jal. & Hidalgo del chalet, Jal. cuál es otra área de las familias concentradas de Serna.

Tengo poca evidencia de la referencia temprana al Ags., Ags. en mi caso los datos más tempranos parecen estar en el " Hole" negro; expedientes de Tabasco, Zac. Huanusco, Zac. Jalpa, Zacatecas. He no podido decidir qué dirección para continuar la investigación cuando los expedientes futuros están disponibles. Notchistlan, Jal. ¿? Hidalgo del chalet, Jal. Tepatitlan, Jal. O & de Tabasco; Huanusco, Zac
Si Juan Schmale, Daniel Menedez C., Rose Hardy o cualquier persona otra tiene contibutions, me alegaria de oírlo. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
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Comentario

David

Like you there is a "black hole" in my research as well. Until the Jalisco and Zacatecas go online I am waiting. Once they go online I will tackle areas surrounding Calvillo to the west, north and south. I am even considering Sierra de Pinos. I have already gone through every film in Aguascalientes.

Just like what I'm doing in Sonora right now, I have a cousin who I am working with. We have several surnames we are tackling....we are taking a town or two at a time, selecting a time period and scouring the films until we go through them all looking for our lines....process of elimination as a team.

I have found one of my Calvillo lines in Calvillo coming from Tepatitlan, Jalisco. So that is another area that I will be looking into.

Sometimes are no easy answers in genealogy...I've been doing this for 20 years, before there were digital records and Nuestros Ranchos....but ordering films by the hundreds.

Rose

Update on my researchl

Published by paris2008 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I was able to get a copy of my maternal grandfather's

Comentarios

Comentario

Where is señor del Encino Parish? your search finish on this names? L.Reynoso

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mendozafowler@yahoo.com
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:42:08 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Update on my researchl
>
> I was able to get a copy of my maternal grandfather's
> (Telesforo Valades Cruz) baptismal certificate. He was born Jan. 5, 1866 and baptized at El Senor Del Encino Parish on the same day. The certificate gives the names of his parents: Guillermo Valades and Maria Del Refugio Cruz. It also gives the names of his paternal and maternal grandparents. His paternal grandparents were Manuel Valades and Ciriaca Marchan. His maternal grandparents were Macsimo Cruz and Maria Gertrudis Segovia. I wanted to pass on this information in case anyone else was doing any research on these names.
>
> Maria

Comentario

Here is some possible info. on Maria del Refugio Cruz:
NameBirth or ChristeningDeath or BurialSpouseParents

Ma. Mucia Del Refugio Cruz
Segovia
[image: Four Stars]13 May 1832
El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico

Maximo Cruz
Gertrudis Segovia
Source type: Other, Media type: Microfilm, Repository name: Family History
Library, Repository address: 35 N West Temple Street, Repository city: Salt
Lake City, Repository state: UT, Repository country: USA, Repository postal
code: 84150, Call number: 0299468, Event date: , Sheet number: 00, Reference
number: 0299468, Batch number: C604813, Serial number: 01651, Place: El
Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Ags County, Mexico, Time period: 1831-1832,
Contributor: EXTRACTION, Contributor of repository: FCH

This might be a sister:
Serapiona Cruz Zegovia
[image: Four Stars]18 November 1837
El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico

Macsimo Cruz
Gertrudis Zegovia
Source type: Other, Media type: Microfilm, Repository name: Family History
Library, Repository address: 35 N West Temple Street, Repository city: Salt
Lake City, Repository state: UT, Repository country: USA, Repository postal
code: 84150, Call number: 0299470, Event date: , Sheet number: 00, Reference
number: 0299470, Batch number: K604815, Serial number: 01878, Place: El
Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Ags County, Mexico, Time period: 1835-1837,
Contributor: EXTRACTION, Contributor of repository: FCH

And this might be the marriage of their parents look at the información
matrimonial as well as the marriage record for additional information:

Maximo Cruz
[image: Four Stars]

Maria Gertrudis Segobia
18 February 1827
El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,MexicoSource type: Other, Media
type: Microfilm, Repository name: Family History Library, Repository
address: 35 N West Temple Street, Repository city: Salt Lake City,
Repository state: UT, Repository country: USA, Repository postal code:
84150, Call number: NONE, Event date: , Sheet number: 00, Reference number:
NONE, Batch number: M604861, Serial number: 01493, Place: El Sagrario,
Aguascalientes, Ags County, Mexico, Time period: 1823-1829, Contributor:
EXTRACTION, Contributor of repository: FCH

Saludos desde Lago Salado (Salt Lake City, Utah)
Eduardo H Seoane

Cuquio, Jal. batch number

Published by RaquelRuiz –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

Can anyone tell me the batch numbers baptisms for Cuquio for 1813 onwards? Thanks!

Comentarios

Comentario

Sergio
El film #0226646 corresponde a la ciudad de Nochistlan Zacatecas. Existen dos batch #'s J600711 para boys y K600711 para girls
los puedes ver en http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/films/Zacatecas/2034
Si dentro de ese film existe algun ancestro de tu interes,que quieras tener copia de ese documento yo con gusto te mando una copia, creo que todavia tengo axceso a ese microfilm.
Jose Luis felix
Lake Mathews CA.

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: xalos68@hotmail.com
> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:01:45 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cuquio, Jal. batch number
>
> Is there a batch number for bautisms 1627-1686? The film number is 0226646.
>
> Thanks,
> Sergio Gutierrez

Nicolas Valdez Guerrero

Published by barb9736 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hi,
I am researching the Guerrero surname, particularly that of my maternal grandfather, Nicolas Valdez Guerrero.

Comentarios

Comentario

Dear Barbara:
Have you searched for the border crossing of Nicolas on ancestry.com? Many libraries have this service with no charge. It may list other family members crossing with him and his last known address or other particulars.
Did you know if his brother was a priest in the US or Mexico? There are many websites dedicated to Catholic Priests and Nuns, sometimes listing their parents, etc. If Arizona, try googling Arizona Catholic Priests Guerrero. You just never know.

Good Luck in your search.

Maureen

Comentario

Thanks, I'll give it a try. His brother was a priest in Guadalajara. I got border crossing info from Ancestry.com but some of it isn't legible.

Dear Barbara:
Have you searched for the border crossing of Nicolas on ancestry.com? Many libraries have this service with no charge. It may list other family members crossing with him and his last known address or other particulars.
Did you know if his brother was a priest in the US or Mexico? There are many websites dedicated to Catholic Priests and Nuns, sometimes listing their parents, etc. If Arizona, try googling Arizona Catholic Priests Guerrero. You just never know.

Good Luck in your search.

Maureen

Comentario

Barbara,

Did you see the Border Crossing Records for Nicolas Guerrero where he states on several crossings that he was born in Ahualulco, Jalisco in 1898?

Since you gave his name as Nicolas Valdez Guerrero, I looked in the Pilot Family Search and found two children born to a Jesus Guerrero and a Felipa Valdez. They are not listed in the regular IGI. Maria Dolores was christened on 04 APR 1900 in Ahualulco de Mercado, Jalisco in 1900, and her brother Alfonso was baptized on 09 APR 1894 also in Ahaululco. There is no listing for a Nicolas or others born to those parents, but they may have been baptized elsewhere.

The film number for Alfonso is 282305, and the film number for Maria Dolores is 282306. Their grandparents are not listed.

I think the people doing the indexes are quite overwhelmed right now, so we won't find some people listed even if they have stated in some records where and when they were born. Also some late 1890s and early 1900s records may never have been filmed, or they were burned during the Revolution. Perhaps the best thing to do is to locate the town historian in Ahualulco and ask where you can find civil records.

You could also complete the form and send it to the Main FHC in Salt Lake City to get a copy of the actual image of the record of the baptisms mentioned above. It might give a clue.

Arizona diocese did not allow the microfilming of their records; you could call or write to the diocese and ask if they have a marriage record for your grandmother Rita Quijada. Also, the University of Arizona has a genealogical department. They don't respond to e-mails, but you might call and talk to a librarian about what old vital records they might have.

Emilie

Port Orchard, WA

> From: barbaraguerrero9736@msn.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:49:45 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nicolas Guerrero
>
> Thanks, I'll give it a try. His brother was a priest in Guadalajara. I got border crossing info from Ancestry.com but some of it isn't legible.
>
> Dear Barbara:
> Have you searched for the border crossing of Nicolas on ancestry.com? Many libraries have this service with no charge. It may list other family members crossing with him and his last known address or other particulars.
> Did you know if his brother was a priest in the US or Mexico? There are many websites dedicated to Catholic Priests and Nuns, sometimes listing their parents, etc. If Arizona, try googling Arizona Catholic Priests Guerrero. You just never know.
>
>
> Good Luck in your search.
>
> Maureen

Comentario

Emilie,

Thanks. I appreciate your help. I will look into these records & utilize your suggestions. I had seen the border crossing record & I printed a copy for my records. I've printed a copy of your email as well. It'll be a great guide.

Sincerely,

Barbara Guerrero

Comentario

Emilie,

I found the town of Ahualulco. I had the name misspelled. I had Ahualulca so when I would do a search nothing would come up. I also thought that perhaps it had been misspelled on the border crossing record, so I had found Yahualica & tried that one & I was wrong. Now that I have it right I will order the films from the FHC. I am hopeful that I will find him.

Thanks again for the information. I'll keep you posted.

Barbara Guerrero

Comentario

Wonderful, Barbara----Good luck----Emilie

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: barbaraguerrero9736@msn.com
> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:17:03 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nicolas Guerrero
>
> Emilie,
>
> I found the town of Ahualulco. I had the name misspelled. I had Ahualulca so when I would do a search nothing would come up. I also thought that perhaps it had been misspelled on the border crossing record, so I had found Yahualica & tried that one & I was wrong. Now that I have it right I will order the films from the FHC. I am hopeful that I will find him.
>
> Thanks again for the information. I'll keep you posted.
>
> Barbara Guerrero

Race Issues: Re - Jewish Ancestry

Published by makas_nc –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

I would like for you all to take ALL discussions that center around Race
or Ethnicity to the general list: general@nuestrosranchos.org

I would prefer that many of these topics be quickly take

Comentarios

Comentario

Hello Aguascalientes researchers:

I've been tracing the Serna family of Calvillo back to this person

JOSE MANUEL DE LA SERNA
Son of Juan M Lopez de la Serde and Merced Medina
Born: Circa 1786
Place: Calvillo, Aguascalientes
Married: October 31, 1852 (2nd Marriage to Refugio de Loera)
Place: Calvillo, Aguascalientes

A brother of this man was baptized in 1798 as follows:

In the Parish Church of San Jose de Huejucar on the 14th of October of
1798. Father Joaquin de Palos baptized Jose Brigido, Español, born on
the 7th of October, legitimate son of Juan Serna and Merced Medina,
residents of Agostadero
Abuelos Paternos: Francisco de la Serna and Maria Flores
Abuelos Maternos: Francesca Masias.

Apparently around 1802, Jose Manuel de la Serde/Serna married Maria
Trinidad Aguilera (daughter of Santiago Aguilera and Maria Lucrecia
Calvillo). She died circa 1849 (after which her husband remarried at
60+ years of age)

I am interested in knowing if anyone has traced this Serna family and
if anyone is familiar with when and where Francisco de la Serde/Serna
lived.

Also, I am trying to find out more about Trinidad Aguilera. I can't
find anything about her. A Jose Santiago Aguilera Carrasco was born
Aug. 6, 1761 in La Ciudad de Aguascalientes as the son of Juan Bernardo
Aguilera and Juana Maria Carrasco (Film 299436) and he may be her
father, but I don't know for sure.

The same Jose Santiago de Aguilera may have been married in 1779 in La
Ciudad to Maria Guadalupe de Chavez, but I suspect he also married
Lucretia Calvillo at some point (Trinidad Aguilera's mother).

My question is, have any of you researched Serde/Serna and Aguilera in
La Ciudad and Calvillo circa 1750 to 1805 and have any suggestions? And
has anyone ever seen the name, "Lucretia Calvillo"? Thank you.

John P. Schmal

Comentario

The people who went to Calvillo, some were from El Agostadero (I have several lines)
this rancho El Agostadero is just outside between Jalpa and Huanusco.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 02:34:31 -0400
> From: johnnypj@aol.com
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Serna/Serda and Aguilar in Calvillo
>
> Hello Aguascalientes researchers:
>
> I've been tracing the Serna family of Calvillo back to this person
>
> JOSE MANUEL DE LA SERNA
> Son of Juan M Lopez de la Serde and Merced Medina
> Born: Circa 1786
> Place: Calvillo, Aguascalientes
> Married: October 31, 1852 (2nd Marriage to Refugio de Loera)
> Place: Calvillo, Aguascalientes
>
> A brother of this man was baptized in 1798 as follows:
>
> In the Parish Church of San Jose de Huejucar on the 14th of October of
> 1798. Father Joaquin de Palos baptized Jose Brigido, Español, born on
> the 7th of October, legitimate son of Juan Serna and Merced Medina,
> residents of Agostadero
> Abuelos Paternos: Francisco de la Serna and Maria Flores
> Abuelos Maternos: Francesca Masias.
>
> Apparently around 1802, Jose Manuel de la Serde/Serna married Maria
> Trinidad Aguilera (daughter of Santiago Aguilera and Maria Lucrecia
> Calvillo). She died circa 1849 (after which her husband remarried at
> 60+ years of age)
>
> I am interested in knowing if anyone has traced this Serna family and
> if anyone is familiar with when and where Francisco de la Serde/Serna
> lived.
>
> Also, I am trying to find out more about Trinidad Aguilera. I can't
> find anything about her. A Jose Santiago Aguilera Carrasco was born
> Aug. 6, 1761 in La Ciudad de Aguascalientes as the son of Juan Bernardo
> Aguilera and Juana Maria Carrasco (Film 299436) and he may be her
> father, but I don't know for sure.
>
> The same Jose Santiago de Aguilera may have been married in 1779 in La
> Ciudad to Maria Guadalupe de Chavez, but I suspect he also married
> Lucretia Calvillo at some point (Trinidad Aguilera's mother).
>
> My question is, have any of you researched Serde/Serna and Aguilera in
> La Ciudad and Calvillo circa 1750 to 1805 and have any suggestions? And
> has anyone ever seen the name, "Lucretia Calvillo"? Thank you.
>
> John P. Schmal
>
>

Comentario

John

The name that comes to my mind are the Lopez de la Serda's. Some where in Aguascalientes but they seem to have come from Teocaltiche. Just a thought since it's around this time that families started to drop their extended names....like Munos de Hermosillo (one of my family lines) is now just Munoz(s).

I have not seen the names you mention but have about 3 Calvillo lines and I do have a Loera (Luera) line from Mecatabasco.

In regards to the Agostadero, there is one by Sierra de Pinos. I have family members from Agostadero (which one?)....and these are lines I am stuck on.....I'm waiting for the Zacatecas records to go digital to see if they are there.

Rose

Comentario

Thanks for the info, Rose. I have right here two examples of very
early Serda's in Aguascalientes:

JUAN SERDA BIELMA Pedigree
Christening: 05 APR 1654 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes,
Mexico
Parents:
Father: NICOLAS DE LA SERDA Family
Mother: MARIA DE BIELMA
C604761 1616 - 1660 0299421 Film NONE

JUAN SERDA BARGAS Pedigree
Christening: 25 JUN 1684 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes,
Mexico
Parents: Father: JUAN DE LA SERDA Family
Mother: LORENSA DE BARGAS
C604763 1684 - 1691 0299423 Film NONE

Are these two the same as the Lopez de Serda's in Lagos? I suspect the
lines I am tracing (Serna/Serda/Serde) may back into them, but that's
where I'm stuck right now.

John Schmal

-----Original Message-----
From: rosehardy@hotmail.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 5:41 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] del la Serda/Serna

John

The name that comes to my mind are the Lopez de la Serda's. Some where
in Aguascalientes but they seem to have come from Teocaltiche. Just a
thought since it's around this time that families started to drop their
extended names....like Munos de Hermosillo (one of my family lines) is
now just Munoz(s).

I have not seen the names you mention but have about 3 Calvillo lines
and I do have a Loera (Luera) line from Mecatabasco.

In regards to the Agostadero, there is one by Sierra de Pinos. I have
family members from Agostadero (which one?)....and these are lines I am
stuck on.....I'm waiting for the Zacatecas records to go digital to see
if they are there.

Rose

Comentario

The Serda (Cerda) from Aguascalientes and Lagos should be the same family, Lopes de la Serda, they originally came from San Luis Potosi.
Regards,Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; rosehardy@hotmail.com; general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:26:20 -0400
> From: johnnypj@aol.com
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] del la Serda/Serna
>
> Thanks for the info, Rose. I have right here two examples of very
> early Serda's in Aguascalientes:
>
> JUAN SERDA BIELMA Pedigree
> Christening: 05 APR 1654 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes,
> Mexico
> Parents:
> Father: NICOLAS DE LA SERDA Family
> Mother: MARIA DE BIELMA
> C604761 1616 - 1660 0299421 Film NONE
>
> JUAN SERDA BARGAS Pedigree
> Christening: 25 JUN 1684 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes,
> Mexico
> Parents: Father: JUAN DE LA SERDA Family
> Mother: LORENSA DE BARGAS
> C604763 1684 - 1691 0299423 Film NONE
>
> Are these two the same as the Lopez de Serda's in Lagos? I suspect the
> lines I am tracing (Serna/Serda/Serde) may back into them, but that's
> where I'm stuck right now.
>
> John Schmal
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rosehardy@hotmail.com
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 5:41 pm
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] del la Serda/Serna
>
> John
>
> The name that comes to my mind are the Lopez de la Serda's. Some where
> in Aguascalientes but they seem to have come from Teocaltiche. Just a
> thought since it's around this time that families started to drop their
> extended names....like Munos de Hermosillo (one of my family lines) is
> now just Munoz(s).
>
> I have not seen the names you mention but have about 3 Calvillo lines
> and I do have a Loera (Luera) line from Mecatabasco.
>
> In regards to the Agostadero, there is one by Sierra de Pinos. I have
> family members from Agostadero (which one?)....and these are lines I am
> stuck on.....I'm waiting for the Zacatecas records to go digital to see
> if they are there.
>
> Rose

Comentario

Thanks for the info, Rose. I have right here two examples of very
early Serda's in Aguascalientes:

JUAN SERDA BIELMA Pedigree
Christening: 05 APR 1654 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes,
Mexico
Parents:
Father: NICOLAS DE LA SERDA Family
Mother: MARIA DE BIELMA
C604761 1616 - 1660 0299421 Film NONE

JUAN SERDA BARGAS Pedigree
Christening: 25 JUN 1684 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes,
Mexico
Parents: Father: JUAN DE LA SERDA Family
Mother: LORENSA DE BARGAS
C604763 1684 - 1691 0299423 Film NONE

Are these two the same as the Lopez de Serda's in Lagos? I suspect the
lines I am tracing (Serna/Serda/Serde) may back into them, but that's
where I'm stuck right now.

John Schmal

-----Original Message-----
From: rosehardy@hotmail.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 5:41 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] del la Serda/Serna

John

The name that comes to my mind are the Lopez de la Serda's. Some where
in Aguascalientes but they seem to have come from Teocaltiche. Just a
thought since it's around this time that families started to drop their
extended names....like Munos de Hermosillo (one of my family lines) is
now just Munoz(s).

I have not seen the names you mention but have about 3 Calvillo lines
and I do have a Loera (Luera) line from Mecatabasco.

In regards to the Agostadero, there is one by Sierra de Pinos. I have
family members from Agostadero (which one?)....and these are lines I am
stuck on.....I'm waiting for the Zacatecas records to go digital to see
if they are there.

Rose

Comentario

I would love to see La Ciudad de Aguascalientes records and San Jose de
Gracia records from the 1700s to go digital, but I have a feeling the
emphasis is on 1800s, and that they may not go digital for years.

Let's cross our fingers.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: rosehardy@hotmail.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 5:41 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] del la Serda/Serna

John

The name that comes to my mind are the Lopez de la Serda's. Some where
in Aguascalientes but they seem to have come from Teocaltiche. Just a
thought since it's around this time that families started to drop their
extended names....like Munos de Hermosillo (one of my family lines) is
now just Munoz(s).

I have not seen the names you mention but have about 3 Calvillo lines
and I do have a Loera (Luera) line from Mecatabasco.

In regards to the Agostadero, there is one by Sierra de Pinos. I have
family members from Agostadero (which one?)....and these are lines I am
stuck on.....I'm waiting for the Zacatecas records to go digital to see
if they are there.

Rose

Comentario

I would love to see La Ciudad de Aguascalientes records and San Jose de
Gracia records from the 1700s to go digital, but I have a feeling the
emphasis is on 1800s, and that they may not go digital for years.

Let's cross our fingers.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: rosehardy@hotmail.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 5:41 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] del la Serda/Serna

John

The name that comes to my mind are the Lopez de la Serda's. Some where
in Aguascalientes but they seem to have come from Teocaltiche. Just a
thought since it's around this time that families started to drop their
extended names....like Munos de Hermosillo (one of my family lines) is
now just Munoz(s).

I have not seen the names you mention but have about 3 Calvillo lines
and I do have a Loera (Luera) line from Mecatabasco.

In regards to the Agostadero, there is one by Sierra de Pinos. I have
family members from Agostadero (which one?)....and these are lines I am
stuck on.....I'm waiting for the Zacatecas records to go digital to see
if they are there.

Rose

Comentario

Rose, do you have this Loera linen from Calvillo?

FRANCISCO LOERA -- Son of Jose Esteban Loera and Rosalia Romo

JOSÉ ESTEBAN LOERA -- Son of Antonio Eugenio Loera and Anna Gertrudis
Muños - married January 9, 1788

ANTONIO EUGENIO LOERA -- Son of Florencio de Loera and Maria de San
Juan Villalobos -- Married: October 6, 1765 in La Ciudad.

I deadend at Florencio. I saw him listed a couple times as Orencio as a
parent, but can't seem to get beyond this point. If you or anyone else
has this line, I'd love to know if you have made more progress beyond
this.

Thanks.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: rosehardy@hotmail.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 5:41 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] del la Serda/Serna

John

The name that comes to my mind are the Lopez de la Serda's. Some where
in Aguascalientes but they seem to have come from Teocaltiche. Just a
thought since it's around this time that families started to drop their
extended names....like Munos de Hermosillo (one of my family lines) is
now just Munoz(s).

I have not seen the names you mention but have about 3 Calvillo lines
and I do have a Loera (Luera) line from Mecatabasco.

In regards to the Agostadero, there is one by Sierra de Pinos. I have
family members from Agostadero (which one?)....and these are lines I am
stuck on.....I'm waiting for the Zacatecas records to go digital to see
if they are there.

Rose

Comentario

Here is some information I found online, good luck!

Aqui hay información que encontre en linea, buena suerte!
Escolastico Antto. Ramon Loera
Billa
[image: Four Stars]25 March 1748
Santa Maria Mecatabasco,Villa Del Refugio,Zacatecas,Mexico

Orencio Loera
Maria Billa Lovor
Maria Antta. Bitorina Rosalia Loera
Villalobos
[image: Four Stars]29 January 1752
Santa Maria Mecatabasco,Villa Del Refugio,Zacatecas,Mexico

Orencio Loera
Maria Villalobos
Joseph Raphael Loera
Villa
[image: Four Stars]16 November 1756
Santa Maria Mecatabasco,Villa Del Refugio,Zacatecas,Mexico

Manl. Orencio De Loera
Petra Villa Lobos
Joseph Antonio Loera
Billalobos
[image: Four Stars]29 April 1760
Santa Maria Mecatabasco,Villa Del Refugio,Zacatecas,Mexico

Manuel Loera
Petra Billalobos
Manl. Loera Villalovos
[image: Four Stars]2 July 1758
Santa Maria Mecatabasco,Villa Del Refugio,Zacatecas,Mexico

Manl. De Loera
Petra Maria Villalovos
Mra. Guadalupe Loera
Villalovos
[image: Four Stars]1 January 1777
San Jose, Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico

Manl. De Loera
Petra De Villalovos

Saludos desde Lago Salado
Eduardo H Seoane

Comentario

Has anyone done research on the Alfaro surname in Sombrerete,
Zacatecas? I've done some research back a couple hundred years, but I
have some gaps and a somewhat jagged puzzle. Would be interested in
knowing if anyone else has tackled that surname in that place.

John Schmal

Comentario

David Serna email > Mooskies4 at aol from the Chicago metro area. My Family is also decended from Sernas From Arroyo de soto & Agostadero. I was just togeather with my uncle and discussed the exact location of Agostadero. He says he know how to get there but would have to drive me there.
My relation to this line is as follows. Jose Manuel Serna b. abt 1786> Florentino Serna b.abt. 1817 > Favian Serna b. 1848, > Sabas Serna Died aft. 1926 > Hija Guadalupe Serna b. 1902 La Presa Se Caso con me Tio Genaro (b. Media Luna, 1902). Married 1926, Calvillo.

> del email de David Serna; Mooskies4 en AOL del área del metro de Chicago. Mi familia también decended de Sernas de soto del Arroyo; Agostadero. Estaba Platicando con mi tío y discutí la localización exacta de Agostadero. Él dice que él sabe conseguir allí pero que tendría que conducirme allí. Mi relación directa del descendiente a esta línea está como sigue. Nacido 1786 Jose Manuel Serna .;> Florentino Serna b.abt. 1817 > Favian Serna B. 1848, > Sabas Serna murió approx 1926 >>> Hija Guadalupe Serna B. Approx.1902 en La Presa Se Caso con me Tio Genaro Serna ( Nacido en Rancho media Luna, 1902 ). Casado 1926, Calvillo.

Comentario

There is a El Agostadero at Mascota, Jalisco, and another at
San Juan de Los Lagos,Jalisco. By viewing these sites, you
ought to determine the one you are looking for.
I was unable to locate Arroyo de Soto.
Hope this helps/hs

David Serna email > Mooskies4 at aol  from the Chicago metro area. My Family is also decended from Sernas From Arroyo de soto & Agostadero. I was just togeather with my uncle and discussed the exact location of Agostadero. He says he know how to get there but would have to drive me there. My  relation  to this line is as follows. Jose Manuel Serna b. abt 1786> Florentino Serna b.abt. 1817   > Favian Serna b. 1848,   > Sabas Serna Died aft. 1926  >    Hija Guadalupe Serna  b. 1902 La Presa Se Caso con me Tio Genaro (b. Media Luna, 1902). Married 1926, Calvillo.
> del email de David Serna; Mooskies4 en AOL del área del metro de Chicago. Mi familia también decended de Sernas de soto del Arroyo; Agostadero. Estaba Platicando  con mi tío y discutí la localización exacta de Agostadero. Él dice que él sabe conseguir allí pero que tendría que conducirme allí. Mi relación directa del descendiente a esta línea está como sigue. Nacido  1786 Jose Manuel Serna .;> Florentino Serna b.abt. 1817     > Favian Serna B. 1848, > Sabas Serna murió approx 1926  >>>  Hija Guadalupe Serna B. Approx.1902 en La  Presa   Se  Caso con me Tio Genaro Serna ( Nacido en Rancho media Luna, 1902 ). Casado 1926, Calvillo.

Comentario

Arroyo de Soto is

Southwest of Calvillo (on the way to Jalpa)
Southeast of Tabasco
Directly east of Huanusco
Right near the border of Zacatecas and Aguascalientes.

-----Original Message-----
From: Santos Luna
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; mooskies4@aol.com
Sent: Fri, Mar 19, 2010 9:02 am
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Serna / Agostadero / Calvillo

David: At the site PublosAmerica.com
There is a El Agostadero at Mascota, Jalisco, and another at
San Juan de Los Lagos,Jalisco. By viewing these sites, you
ought to determine the one you are looking for.
I was unable to locate Arroyo de Soto.
Hope this helps/hs

David Serna email > Mooskies4 at aol  from the Chicago metro area. My Family is
also decended from Sernas From Arroyo de soto & Agostadero. I was just togeather
with my uncle and discussed the exact location of Agostadero. He says he know
how to get there but would have to drive me there. My  relation  to this line is
as follows. Jose Manuel Serna b. abt 1786> Florentino Serna b.abt. 1817   >
Favian Serna b. 1848,   > Sabas Serna Died aft. 1926  >    Hija Guadalupe Serna 
b. 1902 La Presa Se Caso con me Tio Genaro (b. Media Luna, 1902). Married 1926,
Calvillo.
> del email de David Serna; Mooskies4 en AOL del área del metro de Chicago. Mi
familia también decended de Sernas de soto del Arroyo; Agostadero. Estaba
Platicando  con mi tío y discutí la localización exacta de Agostadero. Él dice
que él sabe conseguir allí pero que tendría que conducirme allí. Mi relación
directa del descendiente a esta línea está como sigue. Nacido  1786 Jose Manuel
Serna .;> Florentino Serna b.abt. 1817     > Favian Serna B. 1848, > Sabas Serna
murió approx 1926  >>>  Hija Guadalupe Serna B. Approx.1902 en La  Presa   Se 
Caso con me Tio Genaro Serna ( Nacido en Rancho media Luna, 1902 ). Casado 1926,
Calvillo.

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Just a thought about the de la Serna/Serda line....what comes to my mind are the Lopez de la Serda's from Teocaltiche. Just a thought...

I have not see the names you mention but I do have about 3 lines of Calvillo's and a Loera line in Calvillo

> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 02:34:31 -0400
> From: johnnypj@aol.com
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Serna/Serda and Aguilar in Calvillo
>
> Hello Aguascalientes researchers:
>
> I've been tracing the Serna family of Calvillo back to this person
>
> JOSE MANUEL DE LA SERNA
> Son of Juan M Lopez de la Serde and Merced Medina
> Born: Circa 1786
> Place: Calvillo, Aguascalientes
> Married: October 31, 1852 (2nd Marriage to Refugio de Loera)
> Place: Calvillo, Aguascalientes
>
> A brother of this man was baptized in 1798 as follows:
>
> In the Parish Church of San Jose de Huejucar on the 14th of October of
> 1798. Father Joaquin de Palos baptized Jose Brigido, Español, born on
> the 7th of October, legitimate son of Juan Serna and Merced Medina,
> residents of Agostadero
> Abuelos Paternos: Francisco de la Serna and Maria Flores
> Abuelos Maternos: Francesca Masias.
>
> Apparently around 1802, Jose Manuel de la Serde/Serna married Maria
> Trinidad Aguilera (daughter of Santiago Aguilera and Maria Lucrecia
> Calvillo). She died circa 1849 (after which her husband remarried at
> 60+ years of age)
>
> I am interested in knowing if anyone has traced this Serna family and
> if anyone is familiar with when and where Francisco de la Serde/Serna
> lived.
>
> Also, I am trying to find out more about Trinidad Aguilera. I can't
> find anything about her. A Jose Santiago Aguilera Carrasco was born
> Aug. 6, 1761 in La Ciudad de Aguascalientes as the son of Juan Bernardo
> Aguilera and Juana Maria Carrasco (Film 299436) and he may be her
> father, but I don't know for sure.
>
> The same Jose Santiago de Aguilera may have been married in 1779 in La
> Ciudad to Maria Guadalupe de Chavez, but I suspect he also married
> Lucretia Calvillo at some point (Trinidad Aguilera's mother).
>
> My question is, have any of you researched Serde/Serna and Aguilera in
> La Ciudad and Calvillo circa 1750 to 1805 and have any suggestions? And
> has anyone ever seen the name, "Lucretia Calvillo"? Thank you.
>
> John P. Schmal
>
>

Comentario

David Serna e mail Mooskies4 at aol.

Im curious if you have the same information as me for the son. Florentino age 24, Married Trinidad Lopez. August 12 1842,
She died and at age 36, He Married Maria Guadalupe Estrada About 1853
She died and at age 50 he Married Jorga Rodrigues December 27 1868.

Santelices, Valderrama...

Published by alicebb –
Foros
Genealogy Research

       Dear Group,
       This research done on my maternal grandmother, Agustina Santelices, was done  through FHC microfilms and their online resources.

Comentarios

Comentario

--- On Mon, 3/15/10, Alice Blake wrote:

From: Alice Blake
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices, Valderrama...
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 9:10 PM

I'm sending this out again.  I'm not sure that it got out, because I received zero response.  Am I to believe that no one in this group has any info on these ancestors?  Although the group is for those researching in the three MX states, after three years of membership, I get the feeling that unless you're from Los Altos, Jalos, Lagos de Moreno (just a few townships that come to mind), you're out of luck.  I believe I've tried all resources on line and at the FHC, but I'm not sure, that's why I ask for the group's expertise.   Thanks again for your help,      Alice
     
       Dear Group,
       This research done on my maternal grandmother, Agustina Santelices, was done  through FHC microfilms and their online resources.  I've never found a connection with 
       anyone in the group, but I  remind myself that we hear from only a small portion of our approximate  400 members.  Being a novice, and not as knowledgable as our active members,
        I'm hoping that some of the following names will make a connection.   Any help or advice,
        is very welcome.  
     
      My maternal grandmother Agustina Santelices was married to Luis Onate.
      I've been unable to find any information on either their marriage or the Onates.  None of my
      known family members are interested in genealogy, so like many of you, I've
      had to do this on my own. 
 
      Agustina Santelices  born 05/25/1886  Vetagrande, Zacatecas  daughter of:
      f.  Francisco Santelices    m. Maria Valderrama  married 04/20/1882 Panuco, Zac
    
      Paternal Side:
      Francisco Santelices                b.  ?  Can't find this info   
      f. Jose Maria Santelices           b. 09/18/1801 Queretero, Queretero
      gf. Juan Fermin N Santelices   b.  date unknown, Santander, Castilla, Spain
      gm. Maria Luisa Sepulbeda      b. date unknown, San Juan Del Rio (all it said. Queretero?)
      ggf.  Tomas de Santelises        b.  nothing known, but probably Spain
      ggm.  Antonia Ybanes               b.  nothing known, probably Spain
      ggf.  Jose Gregorio Zepulbeda b. nothing known
      ggm.  Maria Manuela Morales   b. nothing known
 
      Jose Ma Santelices and Ma Agustina Rubio  married 04/12/1823  Santiago, Queretero
      Ma Luiza Sepulbeda and Juan Fermin Santelises married 02/27/1793  Queretaro, Que
 
      Francisco Santelices                  b.   ?
      m. Maria Agustina Rubio            b.  05/05/1806  Tequisquiapan, Queretero
      gf.  Domingo Antonio Rubio       b. 04/08/1765  Huichapan, Hidalgo, Mexico
      gm. Juana Lizundia                     b.  ?
      ggf Domingo Rubio                     b.  ?
      ggm Petra de Anaya Villagran   b. ? 
 
      
      Maternal Side of Agustina Santelices:
      m.   Maria Valderrama               b.  ?
      g f.     Manuel Valderrama          b.  ?
      gm.  Maria Amada Diaz             b.  ?
      ggf.  Jose Camilo Balderrama  b.  07/14/1779  Asientos de Ibarra, Aguascalientes
      ggm  Rafaela Valdez                  b.  ?
      gggf.  Juan Manuel Balderrama   b. ?
      gggm. Maria Nicolasa Calderon  b.?
      ggf.  Pilar Diaz                             b. ?
      ggm. Juana Lozano                     b. ?
 
      Thank you so much for your consideration and I hope to hear from you soon.   Alice
 
     
     
       
      
 
       
 
 
 
     
 
 
 
 
     
---

>
> _________________________________________________________________
>

Comentario

I got to admit you may be right, the usual discussion is Los Altos,any alteno people those who married into Aguascalientes, and Zacatecasmaybe Guanajuato. IT seems were all around the topic of Los Altosde Jalisco, the keystone perhaps.
Regards,Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:06:05 -0700
> From: alicebb@att.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices, Valderrama...
>
>
>
> --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Alice Blake wrote:
>
>
> From: Alice Blake
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices, Valderrama...
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 9:10 PM
>
>
> I'm sending this out again. I'm not sure that it got out, because I received zero response. Am I to believe that no one in this group has any info on these ancestors? Although the group is for those researching in the three MX states, after three years of membership, I get the feeling that unless you're from Los Altos, Jalos, Lagos de Moreno (just a few townships that come to mind), you're out of luck. I believe I've tried all resources on line and at the FHC, but I'm not sure, that's why I ask for the group's expertise. Thanks again for your help, Alice
>
> Dear Group,
> This research done on my maternal grandmother, Agustina Santelices, was done through FHC microfilms and their online resources. I've never found a connection with
> anyone in the group, but I remind myself that we hear from only a small portion of our approximate 400 members. Being a novice, and not as knowledgable as our active members,
> I'm hoping that some of the following names will make a connection. Any help or advice,
> is very welcome.
>
> My maternal grandmother Agustina Santelices was married to Luis Onate.
> I've been unable to find any information on either their marriage or the Onates. None of my
> known family members are interested in genealogy, so like many of you, I've
> had to do this on my own.
>
> Agustina Santelices born 05/25/1886 Vetagrande, Zacatecas daughter of:
> f. Francisco Santelices m. Maria Valderrama married 04/20/1882 Panuco, Zac
>
> Paternal Side:
> Francisco Santelices b. ? Can't find this info
> f. Jose Maria Santelices b. 09/18/1801 Queretero, Queretero
> gf. Juan Fermin N Santelices b. date unknown, Santander, Castilla, Spain
> gm. Maria Luisa Sepulbeda b. date unknown, San Juan Del Rio (all it said. Queretero?)
> ggf. Tomas de Santelises b. nothing known, but probably Spain
> ggm. Antonia Ybanes b. nothing known, probably Spain
> ggf. Jose Gregorio Zepulbeda b. nothing known
> ggm. Maria Manuela Morales b. nothing known
>
> Jose Ma Santelices and Ma Agustina Rubio married 04/12/1823 Santiago, Queretero
> Ma Luiza Sepulbeda and Juan Fermin Santelises married 02/27/1793 Queretaro, Que
>
> Francisco Santelices b. ?
> m. Maria Agustina Rubio b. 05/05/1806 Tequisquiapan, Queretero
> gf. Domingo Antonio Rubio b. 04/08/1765 Huichapan, Hidalgo, Mexico
> gm. Juana Lizundia b. ?
> ggf Domingo Rubio b. ?
> ggm Petra de Anaya Villagran b. ?
>
>
> Maternal Side of Agustina Santelices:
> m. Maria Valderrama b. ?
> g f. Manuel Valderrama b. ?
> gm. Maria Amada Diaz b. ?
> ggf. Jose Camilo Balderrama b. 07/14/1779 Asientos de Ibarra, Aguascalientes
> ggm Rafaela Valdez b. ?
> gggf. Juan Manuel Balderrama b. ?
> gggm. Maria Nicolasa Calderon b.?
> ggf. Pilar Diaz b. ?
> ggm. Juana Lozano b. ?
>
> Thank you so much for your consideration and I hope to hear from you soon. Alice
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>>

Comentario

 Dear Angelina,
Thank you for your encouraging words.  As frustrating as it is, I don't plan on quitting.  I was just hoping I wasn't re-inventing the wheel!   Thanks again,   Alice

--- On Thu, 3/18/10, Angelina Markle wrote:

From: Angelina Markle
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices, Valderrama...
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 1:28 AM

Alice,

Hang in there .... I know it seems frustrating but we all have lines that we can't seem to connect to anyone in the group. We just have to keep trying.

-Angelina-

Comentario

Alice, I'd really try but I didn't get another information like yours don't worry be patient.. I'm in the group many time ago and I still have 3 of my 4 lines only in my ggreatfather.. like 1890 can you Believe that? many people of here like me have searches in many places, Oaxaca, Chihuahua, Guanajuato, Monterrey, Campeche, Tamaulipas, Veracruz...but if I don't found anything I don't send a message..be sure many people are searching for your lines with your same luck. sorry about my english Lety Reynoso

>
> From: Alice Blake
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices, Valderrama...
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 9:10 PM
>
>
> I'm sending this out again. I'm not sure that it got out, because I received zero response. Am I to believe that no one in this group has any info on these ancestors? Although the group is for those researching in the three MX states, after three years of membership, I get the feeling that unless you're from Los Altos, Jalos, Lagos de Moreno (just a few townships that come to mind), you're out of luck. I believe I've tried all resources on line and at the FHC, but I'm not sure, that's why I ask for the group's expertise. Thanks again for your help, Alice
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
¿Qué signigica Messenger para ti?
www.vivirmessenger.com

Comentario

Dear Lety,
It's true, that many of our ancestors from Jalisco, Aguas, and Zac. originated from other states, so I think that we are all somewhat in the same situation--searching other Mexican states!   Thank you for your response, your English is terrific as is your heart.   Alice  

--- On Thu, 3/18/10, leticia reynoso wrote:

From: leticia reynoso
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices, Valderrama...
To: "s s"
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 2:46 AM

Alice, I'd really try but I didn't get another information like yours don't worry be patient.. I'm in the group many time ago and  I still have 3 of my 4 lines only in my ggreatfather.. like 1890 can you Believe that? many people of here  like me have  searches in many places, Oaxaca, Chihuahua, Guanajuato, Monterrey, Campeche, Tamaulipas, Veracruz...but if I don't found anything I don't send a message..be sure many people are searching for your lines with your same luck. sorry about my english Lety Reynoso

>
> From: Alice Blake
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices, Valderrama...
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 9:10 PM
>
>
> I'm sending this out again.  I'm not sure that it got out, because I received zero response.  Am I to believe that no one in this group has any info on these ancestors?  Although the group is for those researching in the three MX states, after three years of membership, I get the feeling that unless you're from Los Altos, Jalos, Lagos de Moreno (just a few townships that come to mind), you're out of luck.  I believe I've tried all resources on line and at the FHC, but I'm not sure, that's why I ask for the group's expertise.   Thanks again for your help,      Alice
>     
>                               
_________________________________________________________________
¿Qué signigica Messenger para ti?
www.vivirmessenger.com

Comentario

I found these two entries online on *Pares.mcu.es* These might be your
ancestors. it would be really awesome if they were because one of the
documents is a suite over Hidalguia and the other is a suite over property.
Anyway good luck! There is probably additional info. I just don't have time
to keep on looking. This search took about ten minutes already. You'll have
to do some more research to find out if these are your ancestors or not.

Texto de búsqueda Tomas santelices , del Archivo Archivo de la Real
Chancillería de Valladolid , dentro de la unidad Real Audiencia y
Chancillería de Valladolid

*RESUMEN:*
Título de la unidad: "Pleito de Manuela de Santelices, de Santander
(Cantabria)
José de Santelices, de Santander (Cantabria)
Tomás de Santelices, de Santander (Cantabria)
José Antonio de Ulibarri, de Santander (Cantabria) Sobre Restitución a
Manuela, José y Tomás de Santelices, hijos de José de Santelices, de los
bienes de Plácida de Santelices, su hermana, fallcida en edad pupilar, en
virtud de las capitulaciones matrimoniales de sus padres."
Archivo: Archivo de la Real Chancillería de Valladolid
Signatura: PL CIVILES,PÉREZ ALONSO (F),CAJA 2699,1

Imprimir

[image: indicador de lista abierta] ÁREA DE IDENTIFICACIÓN
Código de Referencia:
ES.47186.ARCHV/1.1.3.2.1//PL CIVILES,PÉREZ ALONSO (F),CAJA 2699,1
Titulo Nombre atribuido:
Pleito de Manuela de Santelices, de Santander (Cantabria)
José de Santelices, de Santander (Cantabria)
Tomás de Santelices, de Santander (Cantabria)
José Antonio de Ulibarri, de Santander (Cantabria) Sobre Restitución a
Manuela, José y Tomás de Santelices, hijos de José de Santelices, de los
bienes de Plácida de Santelices, su hermana, fallcida en edad pupilar, en
virtud de las capitulaciones matrimoniales de sus padres.
Fecha Creación:
1757 - 1759
Nivel de Descripción:
Unidad Documental Compuesta
Signatura Histórico:
PL CIVILES. PÉREZ ALONSO (F). LEGAJO 0531

[image: indicador de lista cerrada] ÁREA DE CONTENIDO Y ESTRUCTURA
Alcance y Contenido:
Restitución a Manuela, José y Tomás de Santelices, hijos de José de
Santelices, de los bienes de Plácida de Santelices, su hermana, fallcida en
edad pupilar, en virtud de las capitulaciones matrimoniales de sus padres.
Estado de Conservación:
Bueno

[image: indicador de lista cerrada] ÁREA DE CONDICIONES DE ACCESO Y
UTILIZACIÓN
Índices de Descripción:
Capitulación matrimonial
Herencia

[image: indicador de lista abierta] ÁREA DE NOTAS
Notas:
Pleito civil. Escribano Francisco A. Zamora Salamanca.

[image: indicador de lista cerrada] ÁREA DE CONTROL DE LA DESCRIPCIÓN
Fecha de la Descripción:
2003-03-15

[image: indicador de lista cerrada] SOPORTE Y VOLUMEN
4 Piezas con Tamaño: Otros

Texto de búsqueda Tomas santelices , del Archivo Archivo de la Real
Chancillería de Valladolid , dentro de la unidad Real Audiencia y
Chancillería de Valladolid

*RESUMEN:*
Título de la unidad: "Pleito de José y Tomás de Santélices Guerra, vecinos
de Santander (Cantabria)"
Archivo: Archivo de la Real Chancillería de Valladolid
Signatura: SALA DE HIJOSDALGO,CAJA 1299,24

Imprimir

[image: indicador de lista abierta] ÁREA DE IDENTIFICACIÓN
Código de Referencia:
ES.47186.ARCHV/1.1.5.3//SALA DE HIJOSDALGO,CAJA 1299,24
Titulo Nombre atribuido:
Pleito de José y Tomás de Santélices Guerra, vecinos de Santander
(Cantabria)
Fecha Creación:
1772
Nivel de Descripción:
Unidad Documental Compuesta

[image: indicador de lista cerrada] ÁREA DE CONTENIDO Y ESTRUCTURA
Estado de Conservación:
Bueno

[image: indicador de lista cerrada] ÁREA DE CONDICIONES DE ACCESO Y
UTILIZACIÓN
Índices de Descripción:
Hidalguía

[image: indicador de lista abierta] ÁREA DE NOTAS
Notas:
Pleito de hidalguía.

[image: indicador de lista cerrada] ÁREA DE CONTROL DE LA DESCRIPCIÓN
Fecha de la Descripción:
2003-03-26

[image: indicador de lista cerrada] SOPORTE Y VOLUMEN
1 Piezas con Tamaño: Otros

Comentario

This might be information on your Francisco Santelices Good luck!
Saludos desde Lago Salado,
Eduardo H Seoane

Name: Jose Maria De Jesus Fransisco Santeliz Rubio
Gender: Male
Christening date: 08 Feb 1842
Christening place: SANTIAGO, QUERETARO, QUERETARO, MEXICO
Residence: Queretaro, Queretaro, Mexico
Birth date:
Birthplace:
Death date:
Name note:
Race or color (expanded):
Father's name: Jose Maria Santeliz
Father's birthplace:
Father's age:
Mother's name: Agustina Rubio
Mother's birthplace:
Mother's age:
Paternal grandfather's name:
Paternal grandmother's name:
Maternal grandfather's name:
Maternal grandmother's name:
Batch number: C64174-3
Date range: 1840 - 1847
Record group: Mexico-VR
Film number: 247929
Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900

and these two might be a sisters?

Groom's name: Trinidad Santelices
Groom's birth date: 1833
Groom's birthplace:
Groom's age in years: 25
Bride's name: Concepcion Chinchon
Bride's birth date: 1833
Bride's birthplace:
Bride's age in years: 25
Marriage date: 07 Oct 1858
Residence: Querétaro, Querétaro, Mexico
Marriage place: Santa Ana, Querétaro, Querétaro, Mexico
Groom's father's name: Jose Maria Santelices
Groom's mother's name: Agustina Rubio
Father of bride's name: Francisco Chinchon
Mother of bride's name: Manuela Camacho
Groom's race or color (expanded):
Marital status:
Groom's previous wife's name:
Bride's race or color (expanded):
Bride's marital status:
Bride's previous husband's name:
Batch number: M01982-6
Date range:
Record group: Mexico-EASy
Film number: 248555
Collection: Mexico Marriages 1700-1900
Name: Maria Del Pueblito Tranquilina Santelices Ruiz
Gender: Female
Christening date: 06 Jul 1839
Christening place: SANTIAGO, QUERETARO, QUERETARO, MEXICO
Residence: Queretaro, Queretaro, Mexico
Birth date: 05 Jul 1839
Birthplace:
Death date:
Name note:
Race or color (expanded):
Father's name: Jose Maria Santelices
Father's birthplace:
Father's age:
Mother's name: Agustina Ruiz
Mother's birthplace:
Mother's age:
Paternal grandfather's name:
Paternal grandmother's name:
Maternal grandfather's name:
Maternal grandmother's name:
Batch number: C64174-2
Date range: 1830 - 1840
Record group: Mexico-VR
Film number: 247928
Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900

Comentario

Dearest Eduardo,
That's him!!!  I had traced his seven siblings, but couldn't find Francisco's info.  I had found Santelices, Santelises, and Santelizes, variations the siblings, but it NEVER occured to me to try Santeliz!   How absolutely wonderful!  Since my Spanish isn't that great, I'll get back to you later after I've had a chance to dicipher and digest the awesome PARES email you sent earlier.  You haven't just made my day, you've made my ancestrial quest that much more rewarding.   Thank you again, and I'll be in touch.    Alice  

--- On Thu, 3/18/10, Eduardo Seoane wrote:

From: Eduardo Seoane
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices, Valderrama...
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 5:41 PM

This might be information on your Francisco Santelices Good luck!
Saludos desde Lago Salado,
Eduardo H Seoane

Name: Jose Maria De Jesus Fransisco Santeliz Rubio
Gender: Male
Christening date: 08 Feb 1842
Christening place: SANTIAGO, QUERETARO, QUERETARO, MEXICO
Residence: Queretaro, Queretaro, Mexico
Birth date:
Birthplace:
Death date:
Name note:
Race or color (expanded):
Father's name: Jose Maria Santeliz
Father's birthplace:
Father's age:
Mother's name: Agustina Rubio
Mother's birthplace:
Mother's age:
Paternal grandfather's name:
Paternal grandmother's name:
Maternal grandfather's name:
Maternal grandmother's name:
Batch number: C64174-3
Date range: 1840 - 1847
Record group: Mexico-VR
Film number: 247929
Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900

and these two might be a sisters?

Groom's name: Trinidad Santelices
Groom's birth date: 1833
Groom's birthplace:
Groom's age in years: 25
Bride's name: Concepcion Chinchon
Bride's birth date: 1833
Bride's birthplace:
Bride's age in years: 25
Marriage date: 07 Oct 1858
Residence: Querétaro, Querétaro, Mexico
Marriage place: Santa Ana, Querétaro, Querétaro, Mexico
Groom's father's name: Jose Maria Santelices
Groom's mother's name: Agustina Rubio
Father of bride's name: Francisco Chinchon
Mother of bride's name: Manuela Camacho
Groom's race or color (expanded):
Marital status:
Groom's previous wife's name:
Bride's race or color (expanded):
Bride's marital status:
Bride's previous husband's name:
Batch number: M01982-6
Date range:
Record group: Mexico-EASy
Film number: 248555
Collection: Mexico Marriages 1700-1900
Name: Maria Del Pueblito Tranquilina Santelices Ruiz
Gender: Female
Christening date: 06 Jul 1839
Christening place: SANTIAGO, QUERETARO, QUERETARO, MEXICO
Residence: Queretaro, Queretaro, Mexico
Birth date: 05 Jul 1839
Birthplace:
Death date:
Name note:
Race or color (expanded):
Father's name: Jose Maria Santelices
Father's birthplace:
Father's age:
Mother's name: Agustina Ruiz
Mother's birthplace:
Mother's age:
Paternal grandfather's name:
Paternal grandmother's name:
Maternal grandfather's name:
Maternal grandmother's name:
Batch number: C64174-2
Date range: 1830 - 1840
Record group: Mexico-VR
Film number: 247928
Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900

Comentario

Sorry Alice,
I did not try Santiliz either. I went to Pilot.FamilySearch.org and did an
Advanced search for Francisco, no surname with a mother by the name of
Agustina Rubio. I did not add the father because occasionally the mothers
information is the only name that appears because of naturally born
children. By the way, I had looked for the father and several other
combinations before I got lucky. I am glad I was able to help ;•)
Saludos desde Lago Salado (Salt Lake City, Utah)
Eduardo H Seoane

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Dearest Eduardo,
> That's him!!! I had traced his seven siblings, but couldn't find
> Francisco's info. I had found Santelices, Santelises, and
> Santelizes, variations the siblings, but it NEVER occured to me to try
> Santeliz! How absolutely wonderful! Since my Spanish isn't that great,
> I'll get back to you later after I've had a chance to dicipher and
> digest the awesome PARES email you sent earlier. You haven't just made my
> day, you've made my ancestrial quest that much more rewarding. Thank you
> again, and I'll be in touch. Alice
>
> --- On Thu, 3/18/10, Eduardo Seoane wrote:
>
>
> From: Eduardo Seoane
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices, Valderrama...
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 5:41 PM
>
>
> This might be information on your Francisco Santelices Good luck!
> Saludos desde Lago Salado,
> Eduardo H Seoane
>
> Name: Jose Maria De Jesus Fransisco Santeliz Rubio
> Gender: Male
> Christening date: 08 Feb 1842
> Christening place: SANTIAGO, QUERETARO, QUERETARO, MEXICO
> Residence: Queretaro, Queretaro, Mexico
> Birth date:
> Birthplace:
> Death date:
> Name note:
> Race or color (expanded):
> Father's name: Jose Maria Santeliz
> Father's birthplace:
> Father's age:
> Mother's name: Agustina Rubio
> Mother's birthplace:
> Mother's age:
> Paternal grandfather's name:
> Paternal grandmother's name:
> Maternal grandfather's name:
> Maternal grandmother's name:
> Batch number: C64174-3
> Date range: 1840 - 1847
> Record group: Mexico-VR
> Film number: 247929
> Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900
>
> and these two might be a sisters?
>
> Groom's name: Trinidad Santelices
> Groom's birth date: 1833
> Groom's birthplace:
> Groom's age in years: 25
> Bride's name: Concepcion Chinchon
> Bride's birth date: 1833
> Bride's birthplace:
> Bride's age in years: 25
> Marriage date: 07 Oct 1858
> Residence: Querétaro, Querétaro, Mexico
> Marriage place: Santa Ana, Querétaro, Querétaro, Mexico
> Groom's father's name: Jose Maria Santelices
> Groom's mother's name: Agustina Rubio
> Father of bride's name: Francisco Chinchon
> Mother of bride's name: Manuela Camacho
> Groom's race or color (expanded):
> Marital status:
> Groom's previous wife's name:
> Bride's race or color (expanded):
> Bride's marital status:
> Bride's previous husband's name:
> Batch number: M01982-6
> Date range:
> Record group: Mexico-EASy
> Film number: 248555
> Collection: Mexico Marriages 1700-1900
> Name: Maria Del Pueblito Tranquilina Santelices Ruiz
> Gender: Female
> Christening date: 06 Jul 1839
> Christening place: SANTIAGO, QUERETARO, QUERETARO, MEXICO
> Residence: Queretaro, Queretaro, Mexico
> Birth date: 05 Jul 1839
> Birthplace:
> Death date:
> Name note:
> Race or color (expanded):
> Father's name: Jose Maria Santelices
> Father's birthplace:
> Father's age:
> Mother's name: Agustina Ruiz
> Mother's birthplace:
> Mother's age:
> Paternal grandfather's name:
> Paternal grandmother's name:
> Maternal grandfather's name:
> Maternal grandmother's name:
> Batch number: C64174-2
> Date range: 1830 - 1840
> Record group: Mexico-VR
> Film number: 247928
> Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900

Santelices

Published by dpdelgadol –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Dear Alice,

I tried and located the following information.

Comentarios

Comentario

Dear David,
Thank you so much!  It's interesting that I have the info from Juan Fermin Santelices' matrimonial entry film #0247978 as marrying Maria Luiza Sepulbeda on 02/27/1793 in Santiago, Queretaro, Queretaro, not Guanajuato!  It further states that Juan Fermin is from Santander, Castilla, and named his parents Tomas de Santelices and Antonia Ybanes.  Opening up another unknown--how to reseach Spain!!!  Any guidance would be appreciated.  Again, thank you and I'll order Maria Luiza's entry and get her parents.  YEA!    Alice   
 
-- On Thu, 3/18/10, David P. Delgado wrote:

From: David P. Delgado
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 3:24 AM

Dear Alice,

I tried and located the following information.  I hope it helps you.

Maria Luisa Sepulbeda married Juan Fermin Sante Elises 27 Feb 1793 Nuestra Señora De Los Dolores, Dolores Hidalgo, Guanajuato, Mexico  film #0710685, M607828 (1787-1825.

David in Albany, CA

David P. Delgado

Comentario

Alice,
Pertaining to research in Spain and to expand on Eduardo's PARES info.
Santander is now part of Cantabria which is why you see Cantabria in
parentheses for the PARES results. Also, there are films for Santander -
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.as…
You might also see if Antonio Castejón. maruri2004@euskalnet.net can find
some info for you. He has a website for Spanish, Basque, and Asturian
genealogies. http://www.euskalnet.net/laviana/
There is also a Yahoo group for Cantabria -
http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/gencantabria/ You can post and search there
for Santelices.
If you find out some of your Santelices ancestors were in País Vasco there
are Registros Sacramentales at http://snae.org/sacramentales.es.php
My line moved from Vizcaya to Santander (Cantabria) for one generation.
I also found this site for genealogical studies for Cantabrians -
http://www.apellidosdecantabria.com/index.php
Another website with some info - http://www.linajes.net/
If you want to know the distribution of the surname in Spain use this site -
http://www.ine.es/fapel/FAPEL.INICIO

I hope it helps,

Armando

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:52 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Dear David,
> Thank you so much! It's interesting that I have the info from Juan Fermin
> Santelices' matrimonial entry film #0247978 as marrying Maria Luiza
> Sepulbeda on 02/27/1793 in Santiago, Queretaro, Queretaro, not
> Guanajuato! It further states that Juan Fermin is from Santander,
> Castilla, and named his parents Tomas de Santelices and Antonia Ybanes.
> Opening up another unknown--how to reseach Spain!!! Any guidance would be
> appreciated. Again, thank you and I'll order Maria Luiza's entry and get
> her parents. YEA! Alice
>
> -- On Thu, 3/18/10, David P. Delgado wrote:
>
>
> From: David P. Delgado
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices
> To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
> Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 3:24 AM
>
>
> Dear Alice,
>
> I tried and located the following information. I hope it helps you.
>
> Maria Luisa Sepulbeda married Juan Fermin Sante Elises 27 Feb 1793 Nuestra
> Señora De Los Dolores, Dolores Hidalgo, Guanajuato, Mexico film #0710685,
> M607828 (1787-1825.
>
> David in Albany, CA
>
> David P. Delgado

Comentario

  Dear Armando,  
  This is just the kind of help I needed to proceed my search into Spain!  Thanks to yourself and other knowledgable members of the group, I now feel that I've got many resources to utilize.   I'd like to ask you what I should make of the fact that the marriage of Juan Fermin Sante Elizes (another spelling variation I'd never seen before!) to Maria Luiza Sepulbeda was recorded in two different churches in two different cities (Guanajuato and Queretero), on the same day 27, Feb 1793?  Does this happen often, and which do I take as the real deal?   Thanks again, 
Alice   

--- On Thu, 3/18/10, Armando wrote:

From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 6:13 PM

Alice,
Pertaining to research in Spain and to expand on Eduardo's PARES info.
Santander is now part of Cantabria which is why you see Cantabria in
parentheses for the PARES results. Also, there are films for Santander  -
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.as…
You might also see if Antonio Castejón. maruri2004@euskalnet.net can find
some info for you. He has a website for Spanish, Basque, and Asturian
genealogies. http://www.euskalnet.net/laviana/
There is also a Yahoo group for Cantabria -
http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/gencantabria/ You can post and search there
for Santelices.
If you find out some of your Santelices ancestors were in País Vasco there
are Registros Sacramentales at http://snae.org/sacramentales.es.php
My line moved from Vizcaya to Santander (Cantabria) for one generation.
I also found this site for genealogical studies for Cantabrians -
http://www.apellidosdecantabria.com/index.php
Another website with some info - http://www.linajes.net/
If you want to know the distribution of the surname in Spain use this site -
http://www.ine.es/fapel/FAPEL.INICIO

I hope it helps,

Armando

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:52 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Dear David,
> Thank you so much!  It's interesting that I have the info from Juan Fermin
> Santelices' matrimonial entry film #0247978 as marrying Maria Luiza
> Sepulbeda on 02/27/1793 in Santiago, Queretaro, Queretaro, not
> Guanajuato!  It further states that Juan Fermin is from Santander,
> Castilla, and named his parents Tomas de Santelices and Antonia Ybanes.
> Opening up another unknown--how to reseach Spain!!!  Any guidance would be
> appreciated.  Again, thank you and I'll order Maria Luiza's entry and get
> her parents.  YEA!    Alice
>
> -- On Thu, 3/18/10, David P. Delgado wrote:
>
>
> From: David P. Delgado
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices
> To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
> Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 3:24 AM
>
>
> Dear Alice,
>
> I tried and located the following information.  I hope it helps you.
>
> Maria Luisa Sepulbeda married Juan Fermin Sante Elises 27 Feb 1793 Nuestra
> Señora De Los Dolores, Dolores Hidalgo, Guanajuato, Mexico  film #0710685,
> M607828 (1787-1825.
>
> David in Albany, CA
>
> David P. Delgado

Cortes, Maria (Matansas, Ojuelos de Jalisco, JAL; Desmonte de Gonzalez, Ocampo, GTO)

Published by Cortes –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I have added a marriage record between Apolonio Cortez and Dionicia Herrea in my folder. Can someone please help me transalte this marriage record. I'm having a hard time reading it.

Comentarios

Comentario

En la Parroquia de San Jose de Ojuelos el 25 feb ? de 1878....fueron a______ y la .. por concilio del Evento que le fueron veinti... de enero y dos y tres de febrero actual previo al ---------de la doctrina cristiana y la preparacion de los santos sacramentos de penitencia y Sagrada comunión yo Presbitero Refugio L. y Ortiz... con licencia del parrocoasisti al matrimonio que celebraron por palabras de presente ------------------------------.Apolonio Cortes y Dionisia Herrera a quienes di bendiciones nupciales y apliqué la misa.....por.......los .... de este acto Ramon Lopez y Modesto Gomez el primero de dichos contrayentes ha de estar soltero , de 20 años de Edad originario de esta Villa vecino de Matanzas? hijo legitimo de Felipe Cortés y Jacoba Rodriguez que viven y la ____ de quince años, originaria y vecina de____ hija legitima de Serafin Herrera y Felipa Campos que viven.Fueron Padrinos Eduardo Perez y Maria ___ Morales y para constancia la firma del señor cura Luis..... RefugioL y Ortiz...

I hope this can help I tried my best Lety Reynoso

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: as HOT as always
www.hotmailhotness.com.mx

Comentario

Yes it will...I was not able to get at least one word out of there. The names and places which you got are the important ones.

Thanks a lot.

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of leticia reynoso
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 3:14 PM
To: s s
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cortes, Maria (Matansas, Ojuelos de Jalisco, JAL; Desmonte de Gonzalez, Ocampo, GTO)

En la Parroquia de San Jose de Ojuelos el 25 feb ? de 1878....fueron a______ y la .. por concilio del Evento que le fueron veinti... de enero y dos y tres de febrero actual previo al ---------de la doctrina cristiana y la preparacion de los santos sacramentos de penitencia y Sagrada comunión yo Presbitero Refugio L. y Ortiz... con licencia del parrocoasisti al matrimonio que celebraron por palabras de presente ------------------------------.Apolonio Cortes y Dionisia Herrera a quienes di bendiciones nupciales y apliqué la misa.....por.......los .... de este acto Ramon Lopez y Modesto Gomez el primero de dichos contrayentes ha de estar soltero , de 20 años de Edad originario de esta Villa vecino de Matanzas? hijo legitimo de Felipe Cortés y Jacoba Rodriguez que viven y la ____ de quince años, originaria y vecina de____ hija legitima de Serafin Herrera y Felipa Campos que viven.Fueron Padrinos Eduardo Perez y Maria ___ Morales y para constancia la firma del señor cura Luis..... RefugioL y Ortiz...

I hope this can help I tried my best Lety Reynoso

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: as HOT as always
www.hotmailhotness.com.mx

Comentario

Maybe is Serafin or Serapio

> From: Maria.Cortes@trin.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:18:39 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cortes, Maria (Matansas, Ojuelos de Jalisco, JAL; Desmonte de Gonzalez, Ocampo, GTO)
>
> Yes it will...I was not able to get at least one word out of there. The names and places which you got are the important ones.
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of leticia reynoso
> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 3:14 PM
> To: s s
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cortes, Maria (Matansas, Ojuelos de Jalisco, JAL; Desmonte de Gonzalez, Ocampo, GTO)
>
>
> En la Parroquia de San Jose de Ojuelos el 25 feb ? de 1878....fueron a______ y la .. por concilio del Evento que le fueron veinti... de enero y dos y tres de febrero actual previo al ---------de la doctrina cristiana y la preparacion de los santos sacramentos de penitencia y Sagrada comunión yo Presbitero Refugio L. y Ortiz... con licencia del parrocoasisti al matrimonio que celebraron por palabras de presente ------------------------------.Apolonio Cortes y Dionisia Herrera a quienes di bendiciones nupciales y apliqué la misa.....por.......los .... de este acto Ramon Lopez y Modesto Gomez el primero de dichos contrayentes ha de estar soltero , de 20 años de Edad originario de esta Villa vecino de Matanzas? hijo legitimo de Felipe Cortés y Jacoba Rodriguez que viven y la ____ de quince años, originaria y vecina de____ hija legitima de Serafin Herrera y Felipa Campos que viven.Fueron Padrinos Eduardo Perez y Maria ___ Morales y para constancia la firma del señor cura Luis..... RefugioL y Ortiz...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I hope this can help I tried my best Lety Reynoso
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: as HOT as always
> www.hotmailhotness.com.mx

Comentario

I will look under both names.

Maria Cortes (HRIS Administrator)
Trinity Industries
Maria.Cortes@trin.net
Phone 214-589-8036
Fax 214-589-8810

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of leticia reynoso
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 3:25 PM
To: s s
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cortes, Maria (Matansas, Ojuelos de Jalisco, JAL; Desmonte de Gonzalez, Ocampo, GTO)

Maybe is Serafin or Serapio

> From: Maria.Cortes@trin.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:18:39 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cortes, Maria (Matansas, Ojuelos de Jalisco, JAL; Desmonte de Gonzalez, Ocampo, GTO)
>
> Yes it will...I was not able to get at least one word out of there. The names and places which you got are the important ones.
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of leticia reynoso
> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 3:14 PM
> To: s s
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cortes, Maria (Matansas, Ojuelos de Jalisco, JAL; Desmonte de Gonzalez, Ocampo, GTO)
>
>
> En la Parroquia de San Jose de Ojuelos el 25 feb ? de 1878....fueron a______ y la .. por concilio del Evento que le fueron veinti... de enero y dos y tres de febrero actual previo al ---------de la doctrina cristiana y la preparacion de los santos sacramentos de penitencia y Sagrada comunión yo Presbitero Refugio L. y Ortiz... con licencia del parrocoasisti al matrimonio que celebraron por palabras de presente ------------------------------.Apolonio Cortes y Dionisia Herrera a quienes di bendiciones nupciales y apliqué la misa.....por.......los .... de este acto Ramon Lopez y Modesto Gomez el primero de dichos contrayentes ha de estar soltero , de 20 años de Edad originario de esta Villa vecino de Matanzas? hijo legitimo de Felipe Cortés y Jacoba Rodriguez que viven y la ____ de quince años, originaria y vecina de____ hija legitima de Serafin Herrera y Felipa Campos que viven.Fueron Padrinos Eduardo Perez y Maria ___ Morales y para constancia la firma del señor cura Luis..... RefugioL y Ortiz...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I hope this can help I tried my best Lety Reynoso
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: as HOT as always
> www.hotmailhotness.com.mx

Comentario

Maria you can try Marciano Herrera Campos crist 03 nov 1867 C606072 film 639964 son of Serapio Herrera y Felipa Campos Ojuelos Jal.. maybe in this record you see the grandparents

_________________________________________________________________
Enciende tu hotness con Hotmail
www.hotmailhotness.com.mx

research for locations

Published by longsjourney –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Today I found a marriage record that reminded me how it takes more than one record to have accurate information abt locations especially if you take the info from what's online.

Comentarios

Comentario

Linda my name is Leticia Reynoso and I found this:

Jose Vicente Minjares 1789 (19 years) Monte Escobedo

married Tecla Sanchez 1785 (15 years) Ojo de Agua Totatiche, Jalisco

in 11 may 1808 batch M61707-2 film 1164032

Jose Vicente son of Antonio Minjarez and Nicolasa Sanchez and Tecla daughter of Jose Sanchez and Teresa Lopez

I hope this can help you I continue searching..

_________________________________________________________________
¿Te crees fan de Messenger? Compruébalo
www.vivirmessenger.com

Joseph Diaz Tiscareño and Jacinta Ortega

Published by Jaime Alvarado –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Can anyone confirm whether Joseph Dias Tiscareño married to Jacinta Ortega, is the son of Baltazar Diaz and Beatriz Tiscareño (daughter of Luis T. and Lorenza R.de E) born on May 24th 1663?

Comentarios

Comentario

I am trying to find the names of the parents of Jasinta de Ortega married to Joseph Dias (Altamirano) Tiscareño on 12 FEB 1679 in Aguascalientes. Their parents are not listed in the marriage record, and unfortunately, I have not been able to find the marriage information in Pilot. However, Jasinta died on 10 March 1729 in Aguascalientes, and she wrote a last will. I wonder if someone could help me track that document (perhaps Paco) to see if her parents are listed in there.

Estoy tratando de encontrar los nombres de los padres de Jasinta de Ortega, casada con Joseph Dias (Altamirano) Tiscareño en Febrero 12 de 1679 en Aguascalientes. Los nombres de los padres no aparecen en el acta matrimonial, y desgraciadamente, no he podido localizar las imagenes de la 'informacion matrimonial' en Pilot. Ahora, Jasinta murio y testo el 10 de Marzo de 1729. Me pregunto si algun miembro del grupo (quiza Paco) me pudiera ayudar a localizar el testamento para ver si los padres fueron listados ahi.

Comentario

Jaime,

Just like you, I have spent several hours trying to find out who Jacinta de
Ortega's parents were, but so far have been unable to find a reliable source
such as her final will or testament. After a careful analysis of other
families living in the area at the time, I came to the conclusion that her
parents were Juan de Estrada Bocanegra and Margarita de Ortega. Here is the
proof. The parents of Margarita de Ortega were Francisco Macías Valadez and
Jacinta de Ortega, grandmother of the Jacinta de Ortega who married Joseph
Díaz de Anda Altamirano. The timeline fits perfectly well and, as you know,
people in those days used to give their children the name of a beloved
grandparent or earlier ancestor.

Let me know what you think.

BILL FIGUEROA

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 12:43 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jasinta de Ortega

I am trying to find the names of the parents of Jasinta de Ortega married
to Joseph Dias (Altamirano) Tiscareño on 12 FEB 1679 in Aguascalientes.
Their parents are not listed in the marriage record, and unfortunately, I
have not been able to find the marriage information in Pilot. However,
Jasinta died on 10 March 1729 in Aguascalientes, and she wrote a last will.
I wonder if someone could help me track that document (perhaps Paco) to see
if her parents are listed in there.

Estoy tratando de encontrar los nombres de los padres de Jasinta de
Ortega, casada con Joseph Dias (Altamirano) Tiscareño en Febrero 12 de
1679 en Aguascalientes. Los nombres de los padres no aparecen en el acta
matrimonial, y desgraciadamente, no he podido localizar las imagenes de la
'informacion matrimonial' en Pilot. Ahora, Jasinta murio y testo el 10 de
Marzo de 1729. Me pregunto si algun miembro del grupo (quiza Paco) me
pudiera ayudar a localizar el testamento para ver si los padres fueron
listados ahi.

Comentario

This only makes sense! In my notes I had listed Jacinta de Ortega II as Jacinta de Ortega y Estradaso she did appear sometimes as Estrada and/or Ortega. I was puzzled for while as to whowere her parents! Thanks Bill, BTW do you know who are the parents of this Juan Estrada-Bocanegra?IS is the same don Juan who married Teresa Carrillo de Sandi?
Regards,Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> From: bill_figueroa@usa.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 12:06:25 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jasinta de Ortega
>
> Jaime,
>
> Just like you, I have spent several hours trying to find out who Jacinta de
> Ortega's parents were, but so far have been unable to find a reliable source
> such as her final will or testament. After a careful analysis of other
> families living in the area at the time, I came to the conclusion that her
> parents were Juan de Estrada Bocanegra and Margarita de Ortega. Here is the
> proof. The parents of Margarita de Ortega were Francisco Macías Valadez and
> Jacinta de Ortega, grandmother of the Jacinta de Ortega who married Joseph
> Díaz de Anda Altamirano. The timeline fits perfectly well and, as you know,
> people in those days used to give their children the name of a beloved
> grandparent or earlier ancestor.
>
> Let me know what you think.
>
> BILL FIGUEROA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 12:43 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jasinta de Ortega
>
>
> I am trying to find the names of the parents of Jasinta de Ortega married
> to Joseph Dias (Altamirano) Tiscareño on 12 FEB 1679 in Aguascalientes.
> Their parents are not listed in the marriage record, and unfortunately, I
> have not been able to find the marriage information in Pilot. However,
> Jasinta died on 10 March 1729 in Aguascalientes, and she wrote a last will.
> I wonder if someone could help me track that document (perhaps Paco) to see
> if her parents are listed in there.
>
> Estoy tratando de encontrar los nombres de los padres de Jasinta de
> Ortega, casada con Joseph Dias (Altamirano) Tiscareño en Febrero 12 de
> 1679 en Aguascalientes. Los nombres de los padres no aparecen en el acta
> matrimonial, y desgraciadamente, no he podido localizar las imagenes de la
> 'informacion matrimonial' en Pilot. Ahora, Jasinta murio y testo el 10 de
> Marzo de 1729. Me pregunto si algun miembro del grupo (quiza Paco) me
> pudiera ayudar a localizar el testamento para ver si los padres fueron
> listados ahi.
>
>

Comentario

I thought I got it from Jacinta's defuncion record but I guess not, I knowshe was listed as Estrada at least once. IT must be in the recordsofbaptisms for her children. Just this year I started citing and goingback to cite EVERY SINGLE detail in all my records, I had the tendenancyto enter data w/o citing (prob. Laziness) but learned the importance!Now it haunts me to this ver y day when I see records and dont recallwhere I found it. Wont make the same mistake!
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 21:29:14 +0000
> From: alvaradj@comcast.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jasinta de Ortega
>
> Daniel,
> Can you give examples of documents where is Jasinta is listed as Estrada? That kind of info would really consolidate Bill's suspicion.
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Jaime

Comentario

Daniel,

I am guilty too of entering info into my PAF program, and now I am trying to cite my sources. Where in PAF do I enter sources?

Emilie

> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 14:27:28 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jasinta de Ortega
>
>
> I thought I got it from Jacinta's defuncion record but I guess not, I knowshe was listed as Estrada at least once. IT must be in the recordsofbaptisms for her children. Just this year I started citing and going back to cite EVERY SINGLE detail in all my records, I had the tendenancy to enter data w/o citing (prob. Laziness) but learned the importance! Now it haunts me to this very day when I see records and dont recall where I found it. Won't make the same mistake!
> Regards,Daniel
>

Comentario

Hi Emilie,
When you edit a person next to each box on the right side youll find a "S" click on thoseand you can add a new source.
ex.

Name:Sex: BirthPlace: S Christening
Place: S
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> From: auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 16:39:43 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jasinta de Ortega
>
>
> Daniel,
>
>
>
> I am guilty too of entering info into my PAF program, and now I am trying to cite my sources. Where in PAF do I enter sources?
>
>
>
> Emilie
>
>> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 14:27:28 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jasinta de Ortega
>>
>>
>> I thought I got it from Jacinta's defuncion record but I guess not, I knowshe was listed as Estrada at least once. IT must be in the recordsofbaptisms for her children. Just this year I started citing and going back to cite EVERY SINGLE detail in all my records, I had the tendenancy to enter data w/o citing (prob. Laziness) but learned the importance! Now it haunts me to this very day when I see records and dont recall where I found it. Won't make the same mistake!
>> Regards,Daniel
>>

Comentario

Daniel,
You were right, Jasinta is listed as "de Hortega i Estrada" in the christening of her son Ignacio. The record reads as follows.

(al margen) Ignacio esp[añol]
En la Villa de Aguascalien[tes] en beinte i nuebe del mes de Agosto año de mil seiscientos i ochenta i cinco en la Parroquial baptise i puse los Santos Olios a Ignacio español de hedad de beinte y siete dias, hijo lexitimo de Joseph Diaz y de Jasinta de Hortega i Estrada, fueron sus padrinos Nicolas de Aguilera y Maria Dias de Anda les adverti las obligaciones y cognacion espiritual y lo firme (rubrica) D. Baltazar Fernando Altamirano de Castilla

I think that with this evidence, Bill's hypothesis is very strong.

Sincerely

Jaime

Comentario

Phew....thanks!!! you helped me find what I found along time ago!Regards,Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 00:31:08 +0000
> From: alvaradj@comcast.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jasinta de Ortega
>
>
> Daniel,
> You were right, Jasinta is listed as "de Hortega i Estrada" in the christening of her son Ignacio. The record reads as follows.
>
>
>
> (al margen) Ignacio esp[añol]
> En la Villa de Aguascalien[tes] en beinte i nuebe del mes de Agosto año de mil seiscientos i ochenta i cinco en la Parroquial baptise i puse los Santos Olios a Ignacio español de hedad de beinte y siete dias, hijo lexitimo de Joseph Diaz y de Jasinta de Hortega i Estrada, fueron sus padrinos Nicolas de Aguilera y Maria Dias de Anda les adverti las obligaciones y cognacion espiritual y lo firme (rubrica) D. Baltazar Fernando Altamirano de Castilla
>
>
> I think that with this evidence, Bill's hypothesis is very strong.
>
>
> Sincerely
>
>
> Jaime

Comentario

Daniel, Jaime

I don't know who the parents of this Juan de Estrada Bocanegra were but I do
know that he married twice. The first time he married Margarita de Ortega
on 26 Feb 1661 (daughter of Francisco Macías Valadez y Jacinta de Ortega)
and when she died he married María de Laris on 09 Dec 1669. Both weddings
took place in Aguascalientes. This is NOT the same Juan de Estrada
Bocanegra who married Theresa de Sandi on 26 Jun 1657 in Aguascalientes.
They were contemporaries and possibly related.

BILL FIGUEROA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto"
To: "Patty Hoyos"
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jasinta de Ortega

This only makes sense! In my notes I had listed Jacinta de Ortega II as
Jacinta de Ortega y Estrada so she did appear sometimes as Estrada and/or
Ortega. I was puzzled for while as to who were her parents! Thanks Bill, BTW
do you know who are the parents of this Juan Estrada-Bocanegra? Is this the
same don Juan who married Teresa Carrillo de Sandi?

Regards,Daniel

Comentario

I am currently studying the Estrada Bocanegra, I have some good info!Bill, thanks for the info, do you have more info on this Maria de Larisor the death date of Margarita de Ortega, I just found her daughterMargarita (II) baptismal date. Apparently, all the Estrada Bocanegrafrom Los Altos and nearby places (Aguascalientes, Zacatecas etc)come from Andres Estrada-Bocanegra and Luisa Flores Rubin.I found that this couple resided in Guadalajara. Then they settledin Los Altos. I might have found a common link between the Enriquez del Castillo and Estrada-Bocanegra family, but I need todo more research. Regards,DanielTo learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> From: bill_figueroa@usa.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:36:32 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jasinta de Ortega
>
> Daniel, Jaime
>
> I don't know who the parents of this Juan de Estrada Bocanegra were but I do
> know that he married twice. The first time he married Margarita de Ortega
> on 26 Feb 1661 (daughter of Francisco Macías Valadez y Jacinta de Ortega)
> and when she died he married María de Laris on 09 Dec 1669. Both weddings
> took place in Aguascalientes. This is NOT the same Juan de Estrada
> Bocanegra who married Theresa de Sandi on 26 Jun 1657 in Aguascalientes.
> They were contemporaries and possibly related.
>
> BILL FIGUEROA
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto"
> To: "Patty Hoyos"
> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 1:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jasinta de Ortega
>
>
>
> This only makes sense! In my notes I had listed Jacinta de Ortega II as
> Jacinta de Ortega y Estrada so she did appear sometimes as Estrada and/or
> Ortega. I was puzzled for while as to who were her parents! Thanks Bill, BTW
> do you know who are the parents of this Juan Estrada-Bocanegra? Is this the
> same don Juan who married Teresa Carrillo de Sandi?
>
> Regards,Daniel
>
>

Comentario

Congratulations. I have been stuck on the estrada bocanegra for years.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:55:57
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jasinta de Ortega

I am currently studying the Estrada Bocanegra, I have some good info!Bill, thanks for the info, do you have more info on this Maria de Larisor the death date of Margarita de Ortega, I just found her daughterMargarita (II) baptismal date. Apparently, all the Estrada Bocanegrafrom Los Altos and nearby places (Aguascalientes, Zacatecas etc)come from Andres Estrada-Bocanegra and Luisa Flores Rubin.I found that this couple resided in Guadalajara. Then they settledin Los Altos. I might have found a common link between the Enriquez del Castillo and Estrada-Bocanegra family, but I need todo more research. Regards,DanielTo learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> From: bill_figueroa@usa.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:36:32 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jasinta de Ortega
>
> Daniel, Jaime
>
> I don't know who the parents of this Juan de Estrada Bocanegra were but I do
> know that he married twice. The first time he married Margarita de Ortega
> on 26 Feb 1661 (daughter of Francisco Macías Valadez y Jacinta de Ortega)
> and when she died he married María de Laris on 09 Dec 1669. Both weddings
> took place in Aguascalientes. This is NOT the same Juan de Estrada
> Bocanegra who married Theresa de Sandi on 26 Jun 1657 in Aguascalientes.
> They were contemporaries and possibly related.
>
> BILL FIGUEROA
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto"
> To: "Patty Hoyos"
> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 1:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jasinta de Ortega
>
>
>
> This only makes sense! In my notes I had listed Jacinta de Ortega II as
> Jacinta de Ortega y Estrada so she did appear sometimes as Estrada and/or
> Ortega. I was puzzled for while as to who were her parents! Thanks Bill, BTW
> do you know who are the parents of this Juan Estrada-Bocanegra? Is this the
> same don Juan who married Teresa Carrillo de Sandi?
>
> Regards,Daniel
>
>

Comentario

Its Daniel again, I found this

Bernardo Dias Tiscareno
Manuela Flores de la Torre
21 abr 1727 Aguas, Ags

are this the same as Bernardo Dias Tiscareno and Manuela
flores de Robles? -Daniel

Published by Jaime Alvarado – Mié, 2009-04-29 22:15 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Daniel,
Yes, it should be "Flores de Robles" regardless that in the marriage record was transcribed as 'Flores de la Torre'. In the "Informacion Matrimonial" it is clearly spelled as Manuela Flores de Robles, daughter of Sebastian Flores de Robles and Apolonia Castaneda. I think the clerc got confused with the surname of the priest that was Flores de la Torre.
Manuela had at least one brother, Eusebio Flores de Robles who married Maria Dolores Vigil Joven, in Charcas, San Luis Potosi on 3 Dic 1753. Apolonia was daughter of Nicolas Castaneda and Antonia Vargas Machuca.

Jaime

----- Original Message -----
From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:37:12 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jaime:

Its Daniel again, I found this

Bernardo Dias Tiscareno
Manuela Flores de la Torre
21 abr 1727 Aguas, Ags

are this the same as Bernardo Dias Tiscareno and Manuela
flores de Robles? -Daniel

Comentario

I am related to José and Jacinta they are my 8th great grandparents. Here's the weird thing his children use Díaz y Tiscareño while he himself uses Díaz de Anda. There are only to cases where a Tiscareño marries a Díaz in early Aguas. Bálthazar Díaz and Beatriz Tiscareño de Molina, Antonio Díaz de Lomas and Luisa Tiscareño de Molina. Could these two be brothers? IDKAfter goinf thrhough my records, Im convinced they are Bálthazar and Beatriz I mean how else is Tiscareño going to be compounded. ALl of the kids for Antonio and Luisa use just Díaz de Lomas never Tiscareño at all. Ive only found one child for Beatriz, which is José. I think this the José who married Jacinta de Ortega. I had a long time suspicion that Jacinta was of the Moreno de Ortega,but now Im not sure about her. Further study is needed. I think we need to get a hold of the marriage info for José and Jacinta. -Daniel

Comentario

Daniel,
So it turns out we are related via another branch. My line comes from his son Bernardo Diaz Tiscareno and Manuela Flores de Robles. Regarding the two Diaz, It would be interesting to establish their relationship. Regarding Beatriz, I have not been able to find another child but Jose. An interesting note listed in Jose's christening is that he was very sick and in danger of dying, to the point that the priest gave him a special benediction "infanti pericolo mortis". It is quite amazing that our presence in this world was determined by the outcome of such fragile circumstances. Thank God he made it.

Jaime Alvarado

----- Original Message -----
From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:24:37 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hi Jaime

I am related to José and Jacinta they are my 8th great grandparents. Here's the weird thing his children use Díaz y Tiscareño while he himself uses Díaz de Anda. There are only to cases where a Tiscareño marries a Díaz in early Aguas. Bálthazar Díaz and Beatriz Tiscareño de Molina, Antonio Díaz de Lomas and Luisa Tiscareño de Molina. Could these two be brothers? IDKAfter goinf thrhough my records, Im convinced they are Bálthazar and Beatriz I mean how else is Tiscareño going to be compounded. ALl of the kids for Antonio and Luisa use just Díaz de Lomas never Tiscareño at all. Ive only found one child for Beatriz, which is José. I think this the José who married Jacinta de Ortega. I had a long time suspicion that Jacinta was of the Moreno de Ortega,but now Im not sure about her. Further study is needed. I think we need to get a hold of the marriage info for José and Jacinta. -Daniel

Comentario

Hello,

Can anyone confirm whether Agapito De Aguayo married to Narciza De Loza, 21
May 1827 is the son of Candido De Aguayo

and Maria Luisa de San Ygnacio Gomez De Mendoza (daughter of Ygnacio Gomez
De Mendoza and Maria Antonia Valadez) born on 27 June 1792? Also, does
anyone have any additional information on the parents of Narciza (Luis De
Loza and Josefa Gamez)?

Looks Like they were married in Jalostotitlan or Temacapulin, Jal., Mexico

Thanks, Any help appreciated,

Jaime Gonzalez

Comentario

To Jaime Gonzalez,
When posting a new research topic you need to create it with a new heading in NR site, otherwise your question may
never be answere as it may get lost in the thread belonging to the subject heading (in this case Joseph Diaz Tiscareno and Jacinta Ortega).

Jaime Alvarado

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosa Gonzalez"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Cc: "Jaime Gonzalez"
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:42:19 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Joseph Diaz Tiscareño and Jacinta Ortega

Hello,

Can anyone confirm whether Agapito De Aguayo married to Narciza De Loza, 21
May 1827 is the son of Candido De Aguayo

and Maria Luisa de San Ygnacio Gomez De Mendoza (daughter of Ygnacio Gomez
De Mendoza and Maria Antonia Valadez) born on 27 June 1792? Also, does
anyone have any additional information on the parents of Narciza (Luis De
Loza and Josefa Gamez)?

Looks Like they were married in Jalostotitlan or Temacapulin, Jal., Mexico

Thanks, Any help appreciated,

Jaime Gonzalez

Ramon De la Torre, Maria Felix, Nabor Rodriguez y Jesus Garcia?

Published by IsabelPerez –
Foros
Genealogy Research

alguien tiene estos nombres en sus arboles?

Comentarios

Comentario

Leonardo De la torre nacido 1849 en Huejuguilla, zac

I havent found many records from this place.
how many of you have people in your trees born in Huejuguilla, Zacatecas?

No eh encontrado mucha gente de Huejuguilla, Zacatecas, alguien tiene en su arbol a alguien nacido en este lugar?

Bartolome Alonso de los Hinojos

Published by mendezdetorres –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Does anyone have info on Bartolome Alonso de los Hinojos he was born ca. 1665 in Aguascalientes
or Lagos de Moreno. He married Juana Gallegos. Bartolome should be a grandson of Capitan

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