Anita,
Thanks Armando for the information about Maria de la O. Her birth date or bapt. date might be Dec 18 but I haven't found those records. Thanks again the info. was interesting.
I have been a member of this forum for a few months but I haven't introduced myself. I am Anita Rodriguez from Texas and I am trying to put together my family tree.
I purchased a copy of "MOCTEZUMA'S CHILDREN" by Donald E Chipman.
It is available from the University of Texas Press, Austin,for $25.
Petronila de Moctezuma is not mentioned in this book. She is also not in the genealogical charts that I have obtained from PARES.
The only document (or more properly an extract of a document) that I have seen that actually names her and Martin Navarro is a request for a dispensation of a marriage involving a great-granddaughter of theirs. This document does not give Petronila's ancestry.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
George, which great-granddaughter was that and what year was her
marriage?
Thanks.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: gpf13@aol.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Feb 18, 2011 1:05 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Moctezuma's Children
Petronila de Moctezuma is not mentioned in this book. She is also not
in the genealogical charts that I have obtained from PARES.
The only document (or more properly an extract of a document) that I
have seen that actually names her and Martin Navarro is a request for a
dispensation of a marriage involving a great-granddaughter of theirs.
This document does not give Petronila's ancestry.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
John
This was the marriage of Bartolome Rodriguez Baxo and Thomasa Rosa de Ulloa. Bartolome was formerly married to Teresa Ponse (as named in the document), also known as Maria Theresa Rodrigues Ponse de Ortega. Both of these women are great-grandaughters of Petronila. The document is dated 23 Sep 1703, Nochistlan.
I looked through the matrimonial investigations for of Nochistlan for 1703 on Family Search and did not find it. Also, I did not see any dispensations in this volume which may be the reason it is not there.
Extracts from the document are given in Genealogia de Nochistlan for the descendants of Petronila de Moctezuma and Martin Navarro, Capitulo 58. The dispensation may also be extracted in Maria de la Luz Montejano Hilton's Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara, but it will be a while before I can get back to the library to check this. If so, then the document may be easier to find as the Sagrada Mitra has very good citations for references.
I posted the extract at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19247
Perhaps someone in Nuestros Ranchos has an actual copy of it?
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
I descend from bartolome rodriguez baxo and his second wife thomasa rosa de ulloa. I have been unsuccessful in tracing his ancestry. Does anyone have his info.
Thanks rick
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: gpf13@aol.com
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:27:18
To:
Reply-To: general@nuestrosranchos.org, gpf13@aol.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Petronila's gr-grandaughter
John
This was the marriage of Bartolome Rodriguez Baxo and Thomasa Rosa de Ulloa. Bartolome was formerly married to Teresa Ponse (as named in the document), also known as Maria Theresa Rodrigues Ponse de Ortega. Both of these women are great-grandaughters of Petronila. The document is dated 23 Sep 1703, Nochistlan.
I looked through the matrimonial investigations for of Nochistlan for 1703 on Family Search and did not find it. Also, I did not see any dispensations in this volume which may be the reason it is not there.
Extracts from the document are given in Genealogia de Nochistlan for the descendants of Petronila de Moctezuma and Martin Navarro, Capitulo 58. The dispensation may also be extracted in Maria de la Luz Montejano Hilton's Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara, but it will be a while before I can get back to the library to check this. If so, then the document may be easier to find as the Sagrada Mitra has very good citations for references.
I posted the extract at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19247
Perhaps someone in Nuestros Ranchos has an actual copy of it?
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
I have not been able to find his parents either. In the record of his first marriage in 1672, it says he is from Zacatecas.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
I went back and looked up my records and found that I do have parents listed along with christening and grandparents. I do not recall if I found this info or if someone provided it. I have Bartolome as being baptized on 30Aug1671 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas and his parents as Baltassar RodrigueZ baptized 23Sep1646 (son of Diego Rodriguez and Ana) and Ynes Sandoval(daughter of Juan Sandoval and Maria Magdalena) I have a film #226646 as a source listed.
I descend from baltazar's daughter Josepha beatris Rodriguez Bajo and her husband Jose Manuel Villa el Pando (son of Gabriel Villa el pando and leonor Sepulveda. Villa el Pando is also found as Villalpando. I do not have Gabriel's parents.
R. A. Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: gpf13@aol.com
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:13:00
To:
Reply-To: general@nuestrosranchos.org, gpf13@aol.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bartolome Rodrigues Baxo
I have not been able to find his parents either. In the record of his first marriage in 1672, it says he is from Zacatecas.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
This info I have cannot be correct if he married in 1672
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 07:27:33
To: ;
Reply-To: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bartolome Rodrigues Baxo
I went back and looked up my records and found that I do have parents listed along with christening and grandparents. I do not recall if I found this info or if someone provided it. I have Bartolome as being baptized on 30Aug1671 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas and his parents as Baltassar RodrigueZ baptized 23Sep1646 (son of Diego Rodriguez and Ana) and Ynes Sandoval(daughter of Juan Sandoval and Maria Magdalena) I have a film #226646 as a source listed.
I descend from baltazar's daughter Josepha beatris Rodriguez Bajo and her husband Jose Manuel Villa el Pando (son of Gabriel Villa el pando and leonor Sepulveda. Villa el Pando is also found as Villalpando. I do not have Gabriel's parents.
R. A. Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: gpf13@aol.com
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:13:00
To:
Reply-To: general@nuestrosranchos.org, gpf13@aol.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bartolome Rodrigues Baxo
I have not been able to find his parents either. In the record of his first marriage in 1672, it says he is from Zacatecas.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
The record I have image number 41 in the marriage records for 1663-78 in Aguascalientes (online at Family Search).
The record is for Bartholome Rodrigues and Teresa de Siordia. No parents are named.
I believe this Teresa de Siordia is the same person as Teresa Ponse (granddaughter of Juana de Siordia) named in the matrimonial investigation for Bartholome Rodriguez Bajo.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
What evidence is there that teresa ponce and teresa sordia are the same person? If they are then the info I have on Bartolome is obviously incorrect. If teresa sordia and teresa ponce are not the same person then this could be a different Bartolome Rodriguez.
I am sorry about not inputting any info on my source other than a film number. I need to go back and look at the film.
Rick A. Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: gpf13@aol.com
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 10:39:51
To:
Reply-To: general@nuestrosranchos.org, gpf13@aol.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bartolome Rodrigues Baxo
The record I have image number 41 in the marriage records for 1663-78 in Aguascalientes (online at Family Search).
The record is for Bartholome Rodrigues and Teresa de Siordia. No parents are named.
I believe this Teresa de Siordia is the same person as Teresa Ponse (granddaughter of Juana de Siordia) named in the matrimonial investigation for Bartholome Rodriguez Bajo.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
I think this is suggested by several documents:
The matrimonial investigation shows that Teresa Ponse's grandmother is Juana de Siordia. Which opens the possibility that Teresa could have used this name.
There are three baptisms of children of Bartolome Rodrigues Bajo:
Juan, chr 29 Mar 1676 (Ags, film 299422, online image 26), mother: Teresa de Siordia
Juana, chr 29 June 1680 (Ags, film 299422, image 104), mother: Teresa Ponse de Hortega
Nicolas, chr 28 Nov 1687 (Ojuelos, film 640149; no online image), mother: Theresa de Siordia. I believe he belongs to this family, even tho his baptism is in Ojuelos.
I also have a daughter named Francisca is this family, but no baptism date. I estimate her birth date about 1681, most likely Aguascalientes.
The birthdates of the two children Juan and Juana are indicative of a birthdate for Bartolome around 1650. If he was married in the very early 1670s, he could have been about 20 years old.
While these documents are clearly not absolute proof, they are certainly suggestive of the conclusion.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
I descend from the Rodríguez Ponce family. Nicolás Rodríguez Ponce was married twice. First to Juana de Ortega on 21 April 1648 in Aguascalientes. Eventhough I did not find any kids for this family I believe George has a reason to believe this. Firstly Teresa appears to use Siordia, Ponce and Ortega, very close names linked to this line. The Rodríguez Ponce were known to shorten their name to Ponce.
My ancestor Nicolás Rodríguez Ponce was born ca. 1625 his parents were Francisco Rodríguez Ponce a local miner and Juana de Siordia married in Santa María de los Lagos 27 Feb 1620. Francisco was from Lepe en los Reinos de Castilla. Lepe is a town in Huelva province of Andalucía.
Juana de Ortega was daughter of Francisco Macías Valadez and Jacinta Pérez de Ortega. I confirmed that Jacinta was in fact daughter of Alonso Pérez de Ortega and María Núñez Vela y Muñoz de Xérez. I’ll have to check which child of Jacinta’s brother Alonso Pérez de Ortega, but one of them as the padrinos mentions Jacinta de Ortega “su hermana” [Alonso Pérez de Ortega]. I did not see this and almost missed it but was glad I was able to extend this bit on the line.
It is not coincidence that Teresa used that names Ortega, Ponce and Siordia after her grandmothers. I hope this helps a bit.
Daniel Méndez Camino
Daniel
Thanks for this additional information! This is very helpful.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
George, which great-granddaughter was that and what year was her
marriage?
Thanks.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: gpf13@aol.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Feb 18, 2011 1:05 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Moctezuma's Children
Petronila de Moctezuma is not mentioned in this book. She is also not
in the genealogical charts that I have obtained from PARES.
The only document (or more properly an extract of a document) that I
have seen that actually names her and Martin Navarro is a request for a
dispensation of a marriage involving a great-granddaughter of theirs.
This document does not give Petronila's ancestry.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Reviewing "Angelfire.com", Aztec Emperors & Decendantes.
Still confusing.
Por favor cuando manden mensajes al grupo para que te conocemos un poco
mas acabe su mensaje con su nombre completo y a su opcion su lugar donde
vives.
AL IGUAL QUE TU JAIME, PENSE EN DUPLICIDADES ETC., PERO SE TRATA DE LO
SIGUIENTE:
LO SIGUIENTE VERIDICO ESPECIALMENTE EN LOS 1800
EXISE UNA ANOTACION EN UN VOLUMEN CON SU ENTRADA Y PARTIDA R
Con respecto a dupliciada de actas , en las de bautizmo cambia porque algunas ocasiones cuando el nino recien nacido estaba en peligro de morir
los sacerdotes catolicos permitian que cualquier persona , menos los papas efectuaran el bautizmo por los ninos en peligro de muerte y que tambien se escribiera el nombre de los padrinos, despues, si el nino no moria llevaban todos los datos a la parroquia o ante el sacerdote y el volvia a efectuar el bautizmo y por eso cambiaban a los padrinos porque los otros solo eran '' suplentes '' por el momento de gravedad que se estaba pasando.
y en cuanto a los matrimonios , unos eran presentaciones matrimoniales o informacion matrimonial y la otra el matrimonio.
Bueno muchos saludos.
Martha Gomez
----- Original Message -----
From: "alondra preciado" <4darling@sbcglobal.net>
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 7:46:55 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DUPLICIDAD DE ACTAS ... ESPECIALMENTE MATRIMONIALES ECLESIASTICO
AL IGUAL QUE TU JAIME, PENSE EN DUPLICIDADES ETC., PERO SE TRATA DE LO
SIGUIENTE:
LO SIGUIENTE VERIDICO ESPECIALMENTE EN LOS 1800
EXISE UNA ANOTACION EN UN VOLUMEN CON SU ENTRADA Y PARTIDA RESPECTIVA PERO:
NO ES EL MATRIMONIO ES:
LA PRESENTACION
PERO ESTOS LO ANOTAN COMO UNA ACTA
EN ALGUNOS TIENEN UNA DIFERENCIA DE MESES EN OTROS CASOS CASI 16 MESES.
DE IGUAL MANERA ME ENCONTRE:
BAUTIZOS
UNA ENRADA UE DICE:
SE BAUTIZO A LAS TANTAS HORAS DE NACIDO POR.......
LUEGO EN ESE MISMO VOLUMEN ENCUENTRAS UNA ACTA MAS FORMAL
EN OCACACIONES CAMBIA ALGO EL NOMBRE SOBRE TODO SI LOS PADRINOS
NO SON LOS MISMO DE EL BAUTIZO DE "URGENCIA" .
ESPERO SIRVA MI CONTRIBUCION A TU INQUIETUD.
MARIA
Con respecto a dupliciada de actas , en las de bautizmo cambia porque algunas ocasiones cuando el nino recien nacido estaba en peligro de morir
los sacerdotes catolicos permitian que cualquier persona , menos los papas efectuaran el bautizmo por los ninos en peligro de muerte y que tambien se escribiera el nombre de los padrinos, despues, si el nino no moria llevaban todos los datos a la parroquia o ante el sacerdote y el volvia a efectuar el bautizmo y por eso cambiaban a los padrinos porque los otros solo eran '' suplentes '' por el momento de gravedad que se estaba pasando.
y en cuanto a los matrimonios , unos eran presentaciones matrimoniales o informacion matrimonial y la otra el matrimonio.
Bueno muchos saludos.
Martha Gomez
----- Original Message -----
From: "alondra preciado" <4darling@sbcglobal.net>
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 7:46:55 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DUPLICIDAD DE ACTAS ... ESPECIALMENTE MATRIMONIALES ECLESIASTICO
AL IGUAL QUE TU JAIME, PENSE EN DUPLICIDADES ETC., PERO SE TRATA DE LO
SIGUIENTE:
LO SIGUIENTE VERIDICO ESPECIALMENTE EN LOS 1800
EXISE UNA ANOTACION EN UN VOLUMEN CON SU ENTRADA Y PARTIDA RESPECTIVA PERO:
NO ES EL MATRIMONIO ES:
LA PRESENTACION
PERO ESTOS LO ANOTAN COMO UNA ACTA
EN ALGUNOS TIENEN UNA DIFERENCIA DE MESES EN OTROS CASOS CASI 16 MESES.
DE IGUAL MANERA ME ENCONTRE:
BAUTIZOS
UNA ENRADA UE DICE:
SE BAUTIZO A LAS TANTAS HORAS DE NACIDO POR.......
LUEGO EN ESE MISMO VOLUMEN ENCUENTRAS UNA ACTA MAS FORMAL
EN OCACACIONES CAMBIA ALGO EL NOMBRE SOBRE TODO SI LOS PADRINOS
NO SON LOS MISMO DE EL BAUTIZO DE "URGENCIA" .
ESPERO SIRVA MI CONTRIBUCION A TU INQUIETUD.
MARIA
Existe un Acta matrimonial de Luis de los Reyes con Juana Tiscareño de Molina (Aka, Juana de Vargas), del 27 de Diciembre de 1636. Sin embargo, existe un segundo registro que aporta información mucho más valiosa acerca del contexto social de Juana de Vargas. En nuevo registro se hizo el 7 de Febrero de 1637 y precisa que sus padrinos de velación (que generalmente eran familares muy cercanos), fueron Juan Domingo de Vargas-Machuca y Catalina de Ayala.
El documento está disponible en:
https://www.familysearch.org/s/image/show#uri=http%3A//pilot.familysear…
I am seeking information about my maternal 4th great grandfather, Ysidro Alonzo. His parents were Diego Alonzo de los Ynofas and Juana Maria de Sotomayor.
Paul Gomez wrote:
>Hello, Daniel,
>
>Do you have a copy of Ysidro's Baptismal? If he was baptized in
>Aguascalientes, and I have searched the digitized records on Family Search,
>then I have passed over the record.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Paul Gomez
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Daniel
>Méndez Camino
>Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:31 AM
>To: Nuestros Ranchos
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ysidro Alonzo
>
>
>Paul:
>
>My records show otherwise. Isidro Alonso de los Hinojos married Ana Maria de
>Mata y Rebollar the
>16 May 1770 in Aguascalientes. I have a copy f that marriage in my records.
>He was baptized 25 June 1729, like you said his parents were Diego Alonso de
>los Hinojos and Juana Martinez de Sotomayor. These last two at least had 7
>kids in Aguascalientes ranging rom 1724-1736. Isidro also had a twin brother
>named Diego. This is where this line ends for me. Although I do have hunches
>on the identity of their parents we need to prove it first and verify it.
>
>
>
>Daniel Méndez Camino
>
>
>
>
>
Thank you, Daniel. I will go back to "the drawing board", as the saying goes. Where was he bapized?
------Original Message------
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: Nuestros Ranchos
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ysidro Alonzo
Sent: Feb 6, 2011 8:31 AM
Paul:
My records show otherwise. Isidro Alonso de los Hinojos married Ana Maria de Mata y Rebollar the
16 May 1770 in Aguascalientes. I have a copy f that marriage in my records. He was baptized 25 June 1729,
like you said his parents were Diego Alonso de los Hinojos and Juana Martinez de Sotomayor. These last two
at least had 7 kids in Aguascalientes ranging rom 1724-1736. Isidro also had a twin brother named Diego. This is
where this line ends for me. Although I do have hunches on the identity of their parents we need
to prove it first and verify it.
Daniel Méndez Camino
All of them were baptized in Aguascalientes. Im glad I could be of some help.
Daniel Méndez Camino
I have a Maria Ignacia Alonso who had an out of wedlock son, Andres, who was about 1789 in Rancho de los Sandovales near Aguascalientes. I estimate she was born about 1765/70, or perhaps a little later. She died before January 1810.
Andres' year of birth comes from the matrimonial investigation; I have not found a baptismal record for him.
Andres Alonso married Teresa Sandoval on 8 January 1810, in Aguascalientes, and had 8 children, all baptized in Aguascalientes.
Does anyone know her parents?
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
The only way to truly verify her ancestry would be hopefully finding the
identity of her parents in her death record.
Daniel Méndez Camino
Was Pedro de los Hinojos related to Diego Alonso or his father Diego? Pedro was born 08 Jul 1792 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes. He was married to Josepha de los Reyes.
Paul:
My records show otherwise. Isidro Alonso de los Hinojos married Ana Maria de Mata y Rebollar the
16 May 1770 in Aguascalientes. I have a copy f that marriage in my records. He was baptized 25 June 1729,
like you said his parents were Diego Alonso de los Hinojos and Juana Martinez de Sotomayor. These last two
at least had 7 kids in Aguascalientes ranging rom 1724-1736. Isidro also had a twin brother named Diego. This is
where this line ends for me. Although I do have hunches on the identity of their parents we need
to prove it first and verify it.
Daniel Méndez Camino
He was "41" years of age when he married? If so, was he married before?
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Daniel
Méndez Camino
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:31 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ysidro Alonzo
Paul:
My records show otherwise. Isidro Alonso de los Hinojos married Ana Maria de
Mata y Rebollar the
16 May 1770 in Aguascalientes. I have a copy f that marriage in my records.
He was baptized 25 June 1729, like you said his parents were Diego Alonso de
los Hinojos and Juana Martinez de Sotomayor. These last two at least had 7
kids in Aguascalientes ranging rom 1724-1736. Isidro also had a twin brother
named Diego. This is where this line ends for me. Although I do have hunches
on the identity of their parents we need to prove it first and verify it.
Daniel Méndez Camino
The marriage record does not state if he was viudo but clearly name his parents Diego
Alonso de los inojos y Juana Martinez de Sotomayor he was resident of Estanzuela and
born in Aguascalientes his father was already dead by the time he married. His padrinos
were Santiago Alonso (poss brother) and Maria Theresa Alonso (this one is confirmed
sister, I found her baptismal record) and witneses Pedro Joseph Nolasco de Castaneda
and Francisco Antonio Morales. I don't find it hard to believe Isidro would wait till this age
to marry my grandfather was 40 by the time he married my grandmother at age 16.
Anything is posible.
Daniel Méndez Camino
Hello, Daniel,
Do you have a copy of Ysidro's Baptismal? If he was baptized in
Aguascalientes, and I have searched the digitized records on Family Search,
then I have passed over the record.
Thanks.
Paul Gomez
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Daniel
Méndez Camino
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:31 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ysidro Alonzo
Paul:
My records show otherwise. Isidro Alonso de los Hinojos married Ana Maria de
Mata y Rebollar the
16 May 1770 in Aguascalientes. I have a copy f that marriage in my records.
He was baptized 25 June 1729, like you said his parents were Diego Alonso de
los Hinojos and Juana Martinez de Sotomayor. These last two at least had 7
kids in Aguascalientes ranging rom 1724-1736. Isidro also had a twin brother
named Diego. This is where this line ends for me. Although I do have hunches
on the identity of their parents we need to prove it first and verify it.
Daniel Méndez Camino
Daniel,
Bill,
What is the evidence to support Juana Vargas (Tiscareño) as natural child of Luis Tiscareño de Molina? Is Luis listed in the marriage record of Luis de los Reyes and Juana de Vargas? I would be very interested in this information. Regarding this family, I have also done a fair bit of research, and I know that some members like George and Mickey will be interested in the following information, in particular as it relates to the relationship to the Medina family. Daniel may be intersted in some of the Tiscarenos. Regarding the children of Luis and Juana, I only had 9, I was missing Luis. In here I am including 5 generations.
Jaime
1st Generation
1. Luis de Los Reyes (Luis1) was born About 1635 and died on Jan. 24, 1675 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. He married Juana Tiscareño de Molina About 1654. Juana was born About 1638 and died on an unknown date.
Children of Luis de Los Reyes and Juana Tiscareño de Molina
1.1.i.Antonio de Los Reyes was born About 1665 and died on an unknown date.
1.2.ii.Juana de Los Reyes was born on Feb. 4, 1658 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México1 and died on an unknown date.
1.3.iii.Theresa de Los Reyes was born on Jun. 13, 1660 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México2 and died on an unknown date.
1.4.iv.Ines Reyes Tiscareño was born on Mar. 8, 1656 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México3 and died on an unknown date.
1.5.v.Josepha de Los Reyes died on an unknown date.
1.6.vi.Luisa de Los Reyes died on an unknown date.
1.7.vii.Maria de Los Reyes died on an unknown date.
1.8.viii.Juan de Los Reyes died on an unknown date.
1.9.ix.Maria Tiscareño died on an unknown date.
1.10.x. Luis
2nd Generation (Children)
1.1. Antonio de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1665 and died on an unknown date. He married Isavel de Esparza on Nov. 11, 1681 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. Isavel, daughter of Juan de Ortiz and Luisa de Esparza (Pedro3, Lope2, Lope1), was born About 1662 and died Before 1709.
Children of Antonio de Los Reyes and Isavel de Esparza
1.1.1.i.Joseph de Reyes was born About 1685 and died on an unknown date.
1.1.2.ii.Luis de Reyes was born on Apr. 27, 1693 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on Apr. 14, 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
1.2. Juana de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) was born on Feb. 4, 1658 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México4 and died on an unknown date.
1.3. Theresa de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) was born on Jun. 13, 1660 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México5 and died on an unknown date.
1.4. Ines Reyes Tiscareño (Luis2, Luis1) was born on Mar. 8, 1656 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México6 and died on an unknown date.
1.5. Josepha de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date. She married Mateo de Espinosa on Jul. 17, 1676 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
1.6. Luisa de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date. She married Antonio Diaz de las Lomas on Jul. 9, 1670 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
1.7. Maria de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date. She married Juan de Santoyo Gomez in 1666 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
1.8. Juan de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date.
1.9. Maria Tiscareño (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date. She married Joseph Santoyo in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
Children of Maria Tiscareño and Joseph Santoyo
1.9.1.i.Joseph Santoyo Tiscareño was born on Aug. 10, 1669 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México7 and died on an unknown date.
1.9.2.ii.Antonio Santoyo Reyes was born on Sep. 26, 1671 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México8 and died on an unknown date.
1.9.3.iii.Diego Santoyo Reyes was born on Jan. 20, 1665 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México9 and died on an unknown date.
3rd Generation (Grandchildren)
1.1.1. Joseph de Reyes (Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1685 and died on an unknown date. He married Beatris de Medina on Mar. 11, 1709 in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. Beatris, daughter of Christobal de Medina and Maria de Avila, was born on Apr. 16, 1687 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México10 and died on an unknown date.
Children of Joseph de Reyes and Beatris de Medina
1.1.1.1.i.Josefa Medina was born About 1720 and died on Jun. 10, 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
1.1.1.2.ii.Rita Reyes was born on Sep. 18, 1726 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México11 and died on an unknown date.
1.1.1.3.iii.Lorenzo de Reyes was born About 1720 and died on Nov. 3, 1777 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
1.1.1.4.iv.Juana Maria de Los Reyes was born About 1720 and died on Feb. 18, 1776 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
1.1.1.5.v.Francisco Xavier Reyes Medina was born on Apr. 4, 1717 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
1.1.1.6.vi.Gertrudis Reyes was born on May 3, 1719 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
1.1.1.7.vii.Antonia Cipriana de Reyes was born on Oct. 16, 1724 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
1.1.2. Luis de Reyes (Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on Apr. 27, 1693 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on Apr. 14, 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. He married Gabriela de Medina, daughter of Christobal de Medina and Maria de Avila, on Nov. 14, 1714 in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México12.
1.9.1. Joseph Santoyo Tiscareño (Joseph1) was born on Aug. 10, 1669 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México13 and died on an unknown date.
1.9.2. Antonio Santoyo Reyes (Joseph1) was born on Sep. 26, 1671 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México14 and died on an unknown date.
1.9.3. Diego Santoyo Reyes (Joseph1) was born on Jan. 20, 1665 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México15 and died on an unknown date.
4th Generation (Great-grandchildren)
1.1.1.1. Josefa Medina (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1720 and died on Jun. 10, 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. She married Albaro Valades. Albaro was born About 1718 and died on an unknown date.
Children of Josefa Medina and Albaro Valades
1.1.1.1.1.i.Francisco Xavier Valades was born About 1738 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died Before 1788.
1.1.1.2. Rita Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on Sep. 18, 1726 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México16 and died on an unknown date.
1.1.1.3. Lorenzo de Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1720 and died on Nov. 3, 1777 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
1.1.1.4. Juana Maria de Los Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1720 and died on Feb. 18, 1776 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
1.1.1.5. Francisco Xavier Reyes Medina (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on Apr. 4, 1717 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
1.1.1.6. Gertrudis Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on May 3, 1719 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
1.1.1.7. Antonia Cipriana de Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on Oct. 16, 1724 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
5th Generation (Great(2)-grandchildren)
1.1.1.1.1. Francisco Xavier Valades (Albaro1) was born About 1738 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died Before 1788. He married Maria Dionisia Massias on Nov. 5, 1758 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México17. Maria Dionisia, daughter of Miguel Macias (Cayetano1) and Maria Manuela de Esparza, was born About 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died After 1788.
Hi All, my email is working again, im recieving the messages! Thanks to Arturo and Joseph who were working hard to get this thing working! Well anyway, Bill I am still confused at least on the Luisa Tiscareño, this is a new question, I guess was Luisa Tiscareño (hija de Luís y Lorenza) married to both Andrés López de Nava? (I think he appears at least once as González de Ruvalcaba or just Ruvalcaba) and Antonio Díaz de Lomas? I am so confused, because I though Luisa Tiscareño Esparza was married to Antonio but you said its Luisa Reyes Vargas? By the way, which Luisa was married to Marcos Marín de Peñaloza? Any comments appreciated! Thanks in advance to all within this post. -Daniel P.S. its possible that Luís recognized Juana and then she used his name? Its odd someone can just out of the blue use a different last name? Her mother could be a Vargas since usually natural children take the mother's name.
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Daniel,
Luisa Reyes Tiscareño married Antonio Díaz de Lomas; Isabel de los Reyes
Tiscareño married Diego Díaz de Lomas; and Theresa de los Reyes Tiscareño
married Francisco Díaz de Lomas. Antonio, Diego and Francisco Díaz de Lomas
were brothers, and Luisa, Isabel and Theresa Reyes Tiscareño were sisters.
Juana de Vargas probably changed her name to Juana de Tiscareño when her
father acknowledged her as a legitimate child before he died in 1660.
The Luisa de Esparza that married Marcos Marín de Peñaloza was a servant at
the Hacienda del Saucillo. Both Luisa and Marcos were "indios" that worked
for the powerful and wealthy Tiscareño and Marín de Peñaloza families. I
mentioned them in a previous message to illustrate the common practice among
slave owners/employers to allow some slaves & servants to use their surnames
when they didn't have one.
Bill Figueroa
Jaime, Daniel
Les escribo en español para mayor facilidad, ya que tengo poco tiempo disponible. Mas tarde les haré otros comentarios, pero creo que lo siguiente les va a interesar.
En el testamento otorgado en Aguascalientes en 1675 por Luis de los Reyes, declaró lo siguiente:
“En el nombre de Dios todopoderoso amen. Sepan cuantos la presente carta vieren de mi testamento., como Yo Luís de los Reyes, vecino de esta villa de Aguascalientes, hijo legítimo de Luís de Murguía y de María de la Cruz, vecinos que fueron de la Ciudad de México, ya difuntos, estando enfermo de una enfermedad que nuestro señor fue servido de darme, en mi entero juicio, tal cual nuestro Señor me la ha dado, considerando que todo ser viviente es mortal ...etc. etc.
Yten, declaro que soy casado y velado siguiendo la orden de nuestra santa madre iglesia con Juana de Tiscareño y mediante nuestro matrimonio hemos tenido y procreado por nuestros hijos a Juan de los Reyes María de la Cruz, Luisa de los Reyes, Isabel de Tiscareño, y Luís de los Reyes, Josepha, Inés, Juana, Theresa y Antonio de los Reyes, todos nuestros hijos legítimos , de los cuales se hayan hoy en estado de matrimonio Juan de los Reyes, María de la Cruz, Luisa de los Reyes e Isabel de Tiscareño, declárolo para que conste.
Yten, declaro que al tiempo y cuando tomé estado con la dicha mi mujer Juana de Tiscareño, me dio su tía María de la Xara para ayuda de la carga matrimonial unos doscientos pesos en reales y Luis de Tiscareño, padre de la dicha mi mujer, otra cantidad de pesos que por extenso no me acuerdo, mas constará por la carta de dote en su favor tengo otorgada, que de paso ante Joseph Leaño, escribano de su Majestad, a que me sea remitido, que me parece que con tiene de dote serán mil cuatrocientos cincuenta pesos y que a dicho tiempo sería mi caudal un poco más de cien pesos y una mulillas con las que empecé a trabajar.
Yten. Declaro por mis bienes las casas de mi morada con su anexo y pertenecientes, sala cuatro aposentos y trojes, todo cubierto de morillo y raja, todo nuevo.........etc."
Los párrafos anteriores son suficientes para confirmar lo siguiente:
1. Que los padres de Luis de los Reyes fueron Luis de Murguía y María de la Cruz, vecinos de la Ciudad de México, ya difuntos en 1675. No sé de donde viene el "de los Reyes" pero en ese tiempo era común usar el apellido de algún abuelo o abuela, y en algunos casos de un antepasado al que se le tenía gran estima.
2. Que contrajo matrimonio con Juana de Tiscareño, hija de Luis de Tiscareño, quien le dió en dote aproximadamente 1450 pesos. No menciona a la madre de su mujer, por lo que es posible que haya sido hija ilegítima.
3. Que Luis de los Reyes y Juana de Tiscareño tuvieron por hijos a los siguientes:
Juan
María de la Cruz
Luisa
Isabel
Luis
Josepha
Inés
Juana
Theresa
Antonio
Ahora bien, en los registros de la Parroquia de la Asunción de Aguascalientes he encontrado a los siguientes:
Juan, bapt. 12 Nov 1638
María, bapt. 11 Nov 1641 (mismo nombre que su abuela) m. Joseph Gómez de Santoyo abt. 1660
Luisa, bapt. 27 Sep 1643 m. Antonio Díaz de Lomas 9 Jul 1670
Luis, bapt. 10 Jul 1645 m. María de Mérida 31 Oct 1677
Isabel, bapt. 21 Jul 1652 m. Diego Díaz de Lomas 17 Sep 1674 d. 3 Sep 1721
Josepha, bapt. 21 Apr 1654
Inés, bapt. 8 Mar 1656 (madrina Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza)
Juana, bapt. 4 Feb 1658
Theresa, bapt. 13 Jun 1660 m. Francisco Díaz de Lomas 13 Jan 1683 d. after 1713
Antonio, bapt. ?, m. Isabel Ortiz Esparza 11 Nov 1681, d. 15 Apr 1742
De acuerdo al testamento, por 1675 estaban casados Juan, María, Luisa e Isabel. No he encontrado el acta de matrimonio de Juan, pero María, Luisa e Isabel casaron en 1660, 1670 y 1674. Luis, Theresa y Antonio contrajeron matrimonio cuando su padre ya había fallecido. Luis de los Reyes fue enterrado el 24 Jan 1675.
Una cosa muy importante es el orden en que Luis dió los nombres de sus hijos e hijas, el cual es un ORDEN CRONOLOGICO EXACTO.
To be continued....
Bill Figueroa
Bill,
The information you sent us is fascinating. I had estimated the dates of the births of Luis Reyes and Juana de Tiscareno rather late, based on the birthdates of some of their children. In checking Juan de Reyes christening, I found some interesting facts. First, he is listed as mestizo (were any of the other children listed that way?). Second, he was very ill, in danger of dying. so that as a precaution Maria de la Jara (I guess the same aunt of Juana mentioned in Luis' last will). It reads:
(Al margen) Juan Mestizo
En la Villa de Aguas Calientes en doce dias del mes de noviembre de mill y seiscientos y treinta i ocho en la (Iglesia) Parrochial catechise y exorcise; puse los olios Stos a un nino a quie en caso de necessi(dad) Baptizo Maria de la Jara y puso por nombre Juan, hijo legitimo de Luis de los Reyes y Juana de Vargas fue su Madrina de Baptismo y cathequismo ls susodicha y para que
(next page to center) 1638
y conste en testimonio de verdad lo firme.
Rubrica Diego de Torres y Rib.
Jaime
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Figueroa"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 12:40:40 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reyes / Tiscareño
Daniel,
Luisa Reyes Tiscareño married Antonio Díaz de Lomas; Isabel de los Reyes
Tiscareño married Diego Díaz de Lomas; and Theresa de los Reyes Tiscareño
married Francisco Díaz de Lomas. Antonio, Diego and Francisco Díaz de Lomas
were brothers, and Luisa, Isabel and Theresa Reyes Tiscareño were sisters.
Juana de Vargas probably changed her name to Juana de Tiscareño when her
father acknowledged her as a legitimate child before he died in 1660.
The Luisa de Esparza that married Marcos Marín de Peñaloza was a servant at
the Hacienda del Saucillo. Both Luisa and Marcos were "indios" that worked
for the powerful and wealthy Tiscareño and Marín de Peñaloza families. I
mentioned them in a previous message to illustrate the common practice among
slave owners/employers to allow some slaves & servants to use their surnames
when they didn't have one.
Bill Figueroa
Jaime and Bill et al. I was snoppoing around I found this in my records
Miguel de Velasco hijo de Francisco de Velasco y Nicolasa Ruiz de Esparza, hijo de Pedro Ruiz de Esparza, hijo de don Lope Ruiz de Esparza etc..y María de la Jara, hija de Miguel de Espinosa y Leonor de Estrada casaron 31 jul 1692, i just listed the Esparza conntection to see if anyone needs it. Is this María de la Jara related to Juana Tiscareño aka: Juana de Vargas? Since this María Jara parents do not include Jara it must be through a grandmother.
We need to find out more about the Jara family? Has anyone researched the,? -Daniel
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Here is a christening record that shows that Maria de la Jara and Maria de Espinosa are one and the same
Joseph de los Santos. Español hijo legitimo.
En la Villa de Aguas Calientes en once dias del mes de diciembre del presente año de nobenta i tres, Puse los Stos. olios a Joseph de los S(an)tos Español de edad de poco mas de un mes a quien en caso de necesidad echo el Agua el Br. Juan Lozano, hijo lejitimo de Miguel de Belasco i de Maria de la Jara y Espinosa fueron sus padrinos Annto de la Cruz; Petrona de Velasco (sister of Miguel Velasco) a quienes adverti la obligacion de la doctrina Christiana i cognacion espiritual i para que conste lo firme. Rubrica. Sebastian Murillo
Jaime Alvarado
Daniel and Bill,
I've found Maria's (Jara Espinosa) christening record, and I thinkd we can conclude that the "de la Jara" was perhaps given by her god parents:
(al margen) Ma. Española
En la Villa de aguascalientes en once dias del mes de marso de mill y seis sientos y setenta y un años baptise y puse os Santos olios a Maria hija lexitima de Miguel de Espinosa y de Leonor de Estrada su lexitima mujer fueron sus padrinos Luis de los Reies y Juana de Tiscareno a quienes adverti la obligacion y cognacion espiritual.
(Rubrica) Don Baltazar Fernando de Castilla
As Bill revealed to us, Juana Tiscareno was the protegee of aunt Maria de la Jara
Jaime Alvarado
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel M�ndez del Camino"
To: "Patty Hoyos"
Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 2:47:16 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reyes / Tiscareño
Jaime and Bill et al. I was snoppoing around I found this in my records
Miguel de Velasco hijo de Francisco de Velasco y Nicolasa Ruiz de Esparza, hijo de Pedro Ruiz de Esparza, hijo de don Lope Ruiz de Esparza etc..y María de la Jara, hija de Miguel de Espinosa y Leonor de Estrada casaron 31 jul 1692, i just listed the Esparza conntection to see if anyone needs it. Is this María de la Jara related to Juana Tiscareño aka: Juana de Vargas? Since this María Jara parents do not include Jara it must be through a grandmother.
We need to find out more about the Jara family? Has anyone researched the,? -Daniel
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Jaime and Daniel,
As Jaime mentioned in an earlier message, Juan de los Reyes Tiscareño was
described by the priest as being "mestiso". All other children of Luis de
los Reyes and Juana de Tiscareño were described as "españoles". Of their
ten children, this is the only one described as "mestiso" but I have my
suspicions that Juana de Vargas was an illegitimate child of Luis Tiscareño
and that her mother, probably a sister of María de la Jara, may have been
"india" or "mestisa". Here is a transcription of the baptism of Juan de los
Reyes:
Al margen: "Joan mestiso"
"En la Villa de Aguas Calientes en dos dias del mes de noviembre de mill y
seiscientos y treintaiocho años en la Parrochial cathechise y exorcise, puse
los olios Stos a un niño a quien en caso de necesidad Baptiso María de la
Jara y puso por nombre Juan, hijo legitimo de Luis de los Reyes y Juana de
Vargas fue su madrina de Baptismo y cathecqismo la susodicha y para que
conste en testimonio de verdad lo firme [firma] el Licdo Diego de Torres y
Ribera"
I believe a child of "castizo" and "español" was considered "español". The
baptismal record of Isabel de los Reyes reads as follows:
Al margen: "Isabel española"
"En dho dia mes y año Baptise y puse los Stos Olios en esta Yglesia
Parrochial de aguas calientes a Ysabel hija lejitima de Luis de los Reies y
Juana de Vargas vecinos de esta villa fueron Padrinos Gaspar de Palos y
Maria de Retamossa su esposa [f] Melchor Tostado"
María de la Jara was still alive in 1654. The baptismal record of Josepha
de los Reyes reads as follows:
Al margen: "Josepha esp"
"En dho dia mes y año (21 abril 1654) Baptise y puse los Stos Olios a
Josepha hija lejitima de Luis de los Reies y Juana de Tiscareño fue su
Madrina Maria de la Xara. [firma] Melchor Tostado"
I believe this is the first time Juana appears with the surname Tiscareño.
The godmother of the next child, Inés de los Reyes, was Lorenza Ruiz de
Esparza. So, my guess is that shortly before 1654 Luis Tiscareño
acknowledged Juana as a legitimate child. Luis Tiscareño died in 1660.
María de la Jara Espinosa (daughter of Miguel de Espinosa and Leonor de
Estrada) may have been related to María de la Jara. Notice that she was
given "de la Xara" as part of her first name (nombre de pila) but preferred
to use María de Espinosa.
Incidentally, there are many clues in later records that confirm that Juana
de Vargas and Juana de Tiscareño were one and the same. Do you have any
doubts?
Bill Figueroa
Daniel,
Thanks for the info on Maria de Jara. I think we have made a very important breakthrough. After checking several records it appears Maria Jara (daughter of Miguel de Espinosa and Leonor Estrada) married to Miguel de Velasco, is the Maria Espinosa married to Miguel de Velasco we discussed a few days ago in another Forum. At the time we were exchanging information on Margarita Diaz Tiscareno married to Jose Maria Velasco, the son of Miguel Velasco and Maria Julian Beltran de la Cueva, in turn son of Miguel Velasco and Maria Espinosa. The timeline matches perfectly, and someone submitted several records to LDS of christenings and births of children of Miguel Velasco and Maria Espinosa, where she is listed as "Maria Jara Espinosa." It is possible that the "de Jara" was adopted in honor of Juana Tiscareno's aunt Maria de Jara, mentioned in the last testament of her husband Luis Reyes. Now, it would be interesting to figure out what is the connection of the two Marias.
Jaime Alvarado
For Bill and Jaime: Do you have anymore info on Francisco Velasco spouse of Nicolasa Esparza? And also on the Flores de Robles since now im reading they are Flores de la Torre? Who was the patriarch of the Beltrán de la Cueva. -Daniel P.s sorry its not totally relevent and will make a new topic, but is does include about the Velascos who married the Tiscareños.
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Daniel,
As far as I know, the compounded surname Beltrán de la Cueva started with
Pedro de la Cueva and Elena Beltrán. Some of their children used the
surname Beltrán de la Cueva, although sometimes they used only De la Cueva.
Pedro and Elena baptized five children en Aguascalientes between 1679-1690.
Bill Figueroa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Méndez del Camino"
To: "Patty Hoyos"
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reyes / Tiscareño
For Bill and Jaime: Do you have anymore info on Francisco Velasco spouse of
Nicolasa Esparza? And also on the Flores de Robles since now im reading they
are Flores de la Torre? Who was the patriarch of the Beltrán de la
Cueva. -Daniel PS Sorry its not totally relevant and will make a new topic,
but is does include about the Velascos who married the Tiscareños.
Bill,
I'm convinced! You have presented enough direct evidence to leave little doubt that Juana Tiscareño married to Luis de Reyes was the daughter of Luis de Tiscareño. Further, it is clear that this Juana is not the same Juana, daughter of Lorenza, because we know she died 'single'. The only one thing that surprises me is how 'forgiving' Lorenza was of the 'situation' to even become the madrina of Inés in1656, just shortly after Juana started using the Tiscareño surname (1654), perhaps because she Luis recognized her in public. In many regards, Lorenza's action must have served as a validation of Juana's status.
Great research work!
Jaime Alvarado
Bill and Daniel,
In the burial record of Nicolasa Beltran de la Cueva -the names of her parents are listed as Pedro Beltran de la Cueva and Elena Beltran de la Cueva both from the town of Irapuato. Yet, in all the christenings of this couple children, they appears as Pedro de la Cueba and as Elena Beltran. Later, as Bill correctly mentioned, the Beltran de la Cueva appears. I wonder if they were indeed Beltran de la Cueva, maybe cousins and they were trying to hide the fact. I've tried to find more info on these couple, without success. However, there are records of the surname Beltran de la Cueba, Veltran de la Cueva, or Veltran de la Cueba in Guadalajara and in Guanjuato extending back to the mid 1600's.
Jaime Alvarado
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Figueroa"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, May 2, 2009 9:11:37 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reyes / Tiscareño
Daniel,
As far as I know, the compounded surname Beltrán de la Cueva started with
Pedro de la Cueva and Elena Beltrán. Some of their children used the
surname Beltrán de la Cueva, although sometimes they used only De la Cueva.
Pedro and Elena baptized five children en Aguascalientes between 1679-1690.
Bill Figueroa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Méndez del Camino"
To: "Patty Hoyos"
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reyes / Tiscareño
For Bill and Jaime: Do you have anymore info on Francisco Velasco spouse of
Nicolasa Esparza? And also on the Flores de Robles since now im reading they
are Flores de la Torre? Who was the patriarch of the Beltrán de la
Cueva. -Daniel PS Sorry its not totally relevant and will make a new topic,
but is does include about the Velascos who married the Tiscareños.
The interesting part is Elena apparently uses the surnames Jaén (same as the Esparza do) and Gaytán where do these fit in. Pedro de la Cueva y Elena de Beltrán aka: Elena de Gaytán aka: Elena de Jaén -Daniel
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Saludos a todos los compañeros de nuestros ranchos.
Estoy siguiendo una linea de mis antepasados y estoy estancado en lo siguiente, si alguien tiene informacion se agradece de antemano
Jose Marcelino Santillán Reyes nacio el 3 mayo 1823 en Pabellon de Rincon de Romos Ags y se caso con Maria Quirina Del Refugio Guerrero Mercado.
Jose Marcelino es hijo de: Jose Maria Santillan y Maria Dionicia Relles que se casaron el 30 MAR 1818 San Jose De Garcia, Rincon De Romos Ags, ella nacio 09 APR 1802.
Hasta aqui he encontrado alguien sabe de este matrimonio y sus antepasados, Santillan o Santellan y Relles o Reyes.
saludos cordiales
Antonio Santillan
> Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 04:59:26 +0000
> From: alvaradj@comcast.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reyes / Tiscareño
>
> Bill,
> What is the evidence to support Juana Vargas (Tiscareño) as natural child of Luis Tiscareño de Molina? Is Luis listed in the marriage record of Luis de los Reyes and Juana de Vargas? I would be very interested in this information. Regarding this family, I have also done a fair bit of research, and I know that some members like George and Mickey will be interested in the following information, in particular as it relates to the relationship to the Medina family. Daniel may be intersted in some of the Tiscarenos. Regarding the children of Luis and Juana, I only had 9, I was missing Luis. In here I am including 5 generations.
>
> Jaime
>
> 1st Generation
>
> 1. Luis de Los Reyes (Luis1) was born About 1635 and died on Jan. 24, 1675 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. He married Juana Tiscareño de Molina About 1654. Juana was born About 1638 and died on an unknown date.
>
> Children of Luis de Los Reyes and Juana Tiscareño de Molina
> 1.1.i.Antonio de Los Reyes was born About 1665 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.2.ii.Juana de Los Reyes was born on Feb. 4, 1658 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México1 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.3.iii.Theresa de Los Reyes was born on Jun. 13, 1660 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México2 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.4.iv.Ines Reyes Tiscareño was born on Mar. 8, 1656 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México3 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.5.v.Josepha de Los Reyes died on an unknown date.
> 1.6.vi.Luisa de Los Reyes died on an unknown date.
> 1.7.vii.Maria de Los Reyes died on an unknown date.
> 1.8.viii.Juan de Los Reyes died on an unknown date.
> 1.9.ix.Maria Tiscareño died on an unknown date.
> 1.10.x. Luis
>
> 2nd Generation (Children)
>
> 1.1. Antonio de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1665 and died on an unknown date. He married Isavel de Esparza on Nov. 11, 1681 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. Isavel, daughter of Juan de Ortiz and Luisa de Esparza (Pedro3, Lope2, Lope1), was born About 1662 and died Before 1709.
>
> Children of Antonio de Los Reyes and Isavel de Esparza
> 1.1.1.i.Joseph de Reyes was born About 1685 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.1.2.ii.Luis de Reyes was born on Apr. 27, 1693 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on Apr. 14, 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
>
> 1.2. Juana de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) was born on Feb. 4, 1658 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México4 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.3. Theresa de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) was born on Jun. 13, 1660 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México5 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.4. Ines Reyes Tiscareño (Luis2, Luis1) was born on Mar. 8, 1656 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México6 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.5. Josepha de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date. She married Mateo de Espinosa on Jul. 17, 1676 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
> 1.6. Luisa de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date. She married Antonio Diaz de las Lomas on Jul. 9, 1670 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
> 1.7. Maria de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date. She married Juan de Santoyo Gomez in 1666 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
> 1.8. Juan de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date.
> 1.9. Maria Tiscareño (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date. She married Joseph Santoyo in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
>
> Children of Maria Tiscareño and Joseph Santoyo
> 1.9.1.i.Joseph Santoyo Tiscareño was born on Aug. 10, 1669 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México7 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.9.2.ii.Antonio Santoyo Reyes was born on Sep. 26, 1671 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México8 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.9.3.iii.Diego Santoyo Reyes was born on Jan. 20, 1665 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México9 and died on an unknown date.
>
> 3rd Generation (Grandchildren)
>
> 1.1.1. Joseph de Reyes (Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1685 and died on an unknown date. He married Beatris de Medina on Mar. 11, 1709 in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. Beatris, daughter of Christobal de Medina and Maria de Avila, was born on Apr. 16, 1687 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México10 and died on an unknown date.
>
> Children of Joseph de Reyes and Beatris de Medina
> 1.1.1.1.i.Josefa Medina was born About 1720 and died on Jun. 10, 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
> 1.1.1.2.ii.Rita Reyes was born on Sep. 18, 1726 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México11 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.1.1.3.iii.Lorenzo de Reyes was born About 1720 and died on Nov. 3, 1777 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
> 1.1.1.4.iv.Juana Maria de Los Reyes was born About 1720 and died on Feb. 18, 1776 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
> 1.1.1.5.v.Francisco Xavier Reyes Medina was born on Apr. 4, 1717 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
> 1.1.1.6.vi.Gertrudis Reyes was born on May 3, 1719 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
> 1.1.1.7.vii.Antonia Cipriana de Reyes was born on Oct. 16, 1724 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
>
>
> 1.1.2. Luis de Reyes (Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on Apr. 27, 1693 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on Apr. 14, 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. He married Gabriela de Medina, daughter of Christobal de Medina and Maria de Avila, on Nov. 14, 1714 in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México12.
>
> 1.9.1. Joseph Santoyo Tiscareño (Joseph1) was born on Aug. 10, 1669 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México13 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.9.2. Antonio Santoyo Reyes (Joseph1) was born on Sep. 26, 1671 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México14 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.9.3. Diego Santoyo Reyes (Joseph1) was born on Jan. 20, 1665 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México15 and died on an unknown date.
>
>
> 4th Generation (Great-grandchildren)
>
> 1.1.1.1. Josefa Medina (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1720 and died on Jun. 10, 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. She married Albaro Valades. Albaro was born About 1718 and died on an unknown date.
>
> Children of Josefa Medina and Albaro Valades
> 1.1.1.1.1.i.Francisco Xavier Valades was born About 1738 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died Before 1788.
> 1.1.1.2. Rita Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on Sep. 18, 1726 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México16 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.1.1.3. Lorenzo de Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1720 and died on Nov. 3, 1777 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
> 1.1.1.4. Juana Maria de Los Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1720 and died on Feb. 18, 1776 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
> 1.1.1.5. Francisco Xavier Reyes Medina (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on Apr. 4, 1717 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
> 1.1.1.6. Gertrudis Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on May 3, 1719 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
> 1.1.1.7. Antonia Cipriana de Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on Oct. 16, 1724 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
>
> 5th Generation (Great(2)-grandchildren)
>
> 1.1.1.1.1. Francisco Xavier Valades (Albaro1) was born About 1738 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died Before 1788. He married Maria Dionisia Massias on Nov. 5, 1758 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México17. Maria Dionisia, daughter of Miguel Macias (Cayetano1) and Maria Manuela de Esparza, was born About 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died After 1788.
>
>
>
Hola Antonio, revisé el acta de matrimonio de tus ancestros en San José de Gracia, Rincón de Romos, Aguascalientes en 30 de marzo de 1818.
El acta dice: ... José María Santillanes, indio soltero de veinte años de edad, originario y vecino de Santiago, hijo legítimo de Atanasio Santillanes, difunto, y de María Juliana Jiménez; con María Dionisia Reyes, india doncella de diez y siete años de edad, originaria de Paredes y vecina de Santiago también de ésta feligresía de cinco meses a esta parte, hija legítima de Cornelio Reyes, difunto, y María Asención Morales...
José Atanasio Santillán y María Juliana Jiménez casaron en Rincón de Romos el día 25 de noviembre de 1795. El acta menciona lo siguinete: ... José Atanasio Santillán, indio de ésta feligresía en la Hacienda de Santiago, hijo legítimo de Asencio Santillán y de Juana María Manriquez, difunta; con María Juliana Jiménez, india de ésta feligresía en Santiago, hija legítima de José Justo Jiménez y María Francisca de Lara...
Asencio Santillán y Juana Hilaria (María) Manrique casaron en Aguascalientes el día 14 de febrero de 1762. El acta dice: ... Asencio Santillán, mulato originario de Lagos y vecino de esta Villa en Garabatos, hijo natural de María Marta Santillán; con Juana Hilaria Manrique, mulata originaria y vecina de ésta Villa en dicho Garabato, hija legítima de Rafael Manriquez y de Gertrudis Efigenia Serrano...
Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
¿Quieres ganar premios con Windows Live?
www.actualizatuperfil.com.mx
Joge Luis Buen dia
te agradesco ti informacion muy valiosa y ademas confirmo un cambio el origen de mis antepasados, ahora seguire la linea que tu amablemente me pasaste.
Gracias y saludos
Antonio Santillan
> From: georgio_2386@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 10:03:16 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reyes / Tiscareño
>
>
> Hola Antonio, revisé el acta de matrimonio de tus ancestros en San José de Gracia, Rincón de Romos, Aguascalientes en 30 de marzo de 1818.
>
>
>
> El acta dice: ... José María Santillanes, indio soltero de veinte años de edad, originario y vecino de Santiago, hijo legítimo de Atanasio Santillanes, difunto, y de María Juliana Jiménez; con María Dionisia Reyes, india doncella de diez y siete años de edad, originaria de Paredes y vecina de Santiago también de ésta feligresía de cinco meses a esta parte, hija legítima de Cornelio Reyes, difunto, y María Asención Morales...
>
>
>
> José Atanasio Santillán y María Juliana Jiménez casaron en Rincón de Romos el día 25 de noviembre de 1795. El acta menciona lo siguinete: ... José Atanasio Santillán, indio de ésta feligresía en la Hacienda de Santiago, hijo legítimo de Asencio Santillán y de Juana María Manriquez, difunta; con María Juliana Jiménez, india de ésta feligresía en Santiago, hija legítima de José Justo Jiménez y María Francisca de Lara...
>
>
>
> Asencio Santillán y Juana Hilaria (María) Manrique casaron en Aguascalientes el día 14 de febrero de 1762. El acta dice: ... Asencio Santillán, mulato originario de Lagos y vecino de esta Villa en Garabatos, hijo natural de María Marta Santillán; con Juana Hilaria Manrique, mulata originaria y vecina de ésta Villa en dicho Garabato, hija legítima de Rafael Manriquez y de Gertrudis Efigenia Serrano...
>
>
>
> Saludos.
> Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> ¿Quieres ganar premios con Windows Live?
> www.actualizatuperfil.com.mx
Saludos a todos:
Algun pariente o linea de Asencio Santillán y Juana Hilaria (María) Manrique casaron en Aguascalientes el día 14 de febrero de 1762. El acta dice: ... Asencio Santillán, originario de Lagos y vecino de esta Villa en Garabatos, hijo natural de María Marta Santillán; con Juana Hilaria Manrique, originaria y vecina de ésta Villa en dicho Garabato, hija legítima de Rafael Manriquez y de Gertrudis Efigenia Serrano.
Sobre todo ligas o linea ancestral de Asencio y su mama María Marta Santillán ya que no viene nombre del padre por lo cual supongo que fue una madre soltera o algo parecido vecinos de Lagos.
Gracias de antemano
Antonio Santilan
_________________________________________________________________
Y tú, ¿ya actualizaste tu Perfil?
http://www.actualizatuperfil.com.mx/
I AM CONFUSED AS TO THE USE OF SURNAMES. I HAVE SOMEONE NAMED GERTRUDIS GONZALES DE PLACENCIA. WHICH NAME IS HER FATHERS AND WHICH NAME IS HER MOTHERS? WHAT DOES "DE" SIGNIFY?
When listed in an alphabetical index, this person should go under G for González. For Spanish surnames you always list under the first surname. However, you usually ignore the words DE (OF), DE LOS and DE LA (OF THE), so a "de la Garza" shoud go under G and a "de Espinosa" should go under E. Other languages also use the preposition OF or an equivalent: DiCaprio, DiMarco (Italian), Dubois, Dumont, Dupont(French).
"González de Placencia" should be her maiden name. It is hard to know if she got the "González" from the father and the "de Placencia" from the mother, or if "González de Placencia" is a single surname that she got from her father.
Women keep their maiden surnames regardless of how many times they marry although...
When a woman marries, she usually adds to her name the word "de" followed by the first surname of the husband, for example: "Jacqueline Kennedy" would have been "Jaqueline Bouvier de Kennedy". When the husband dies, she changes it to "viuda de..." (widow of): "Jaqueline Bouvier viuda de Kennedy". And if she remarries she would take the surname of the new husband: "Jaqueline Bouvier de Onassis". She may use these names, HOWEVER none of these names is her OFFICIAL NAME, her official name is always her maiden name.
In the current Mexican system, your first surname is the first surname of your father, and your second surname is the first surname of your mother, but this was not standarized until the 20th Century. Before that and depending on the local customs, you could use either one or two surnames which you could get from either your father, your mother, a grandparent or a mix of them. Most commonly people would get at least one surname form the father and many times a second one from the mother (but still, a single surname may or not contain several words, like "González de Paredes").
Victoriano Navarro
Once you start colonial research (XVII-XVIII centuries) you will notice it's common to see these compound names
the subject itself can get complicated. Spaniards had fun with surnames, one reason could be two families
were important so they compounded their names so their descendants could keep both and not lose the maternal
name. Note also that until the Borbon Reforms there was no rule on what name to take, if a male was named
after his maternal grandfather who could take his maternal last name and ignore his father's name all his life.
My paternal line is MENDEZ DE TORRES father to son and so on since Diego Mendez de Torres in 17th century in
Michoacan. My maternal line is CAMINO TRASGALLO, again father to son and eventually to daughter (my mother).
This practice became less important after the independence of Mexico occurred where it was an old way of thinking.
Many people shortened their names so let's say GIL DE HOYOS, one son chose to keep GIL the other son became
DE HOYOS. At the same time many people kept and insisted on keeping their names because it meant lineage,
family and other things. I have cousins who retained their RUIZ DE ESPARZA o GARCIA DE LEON families that I
also descend my grandmother is GARCIA DE LEON. My 2nd great granfather was RUIZ DE ESPARZA. Although
a fascinating subject it can be a bit mind-boggling. Hope it gives you some insight.
Daniel Méndez Camino
I have an M Islas Gonzalez (given name may be Maria Luisa, there is an
inkblot over most of that part), married to Pedro Antonio Toledo y
Balenzuela, listed as the parents of Luis Toledo, who marri
Pedro Macias Valadez married Josepha Gutierrez around 1650 in Aguascalientes. They had at least three children.
Daniel,
Gracias por la informacion. Aunque no deciendo de esa pareja, muchos de sus hijos estan relacionados indirectamente con mi familia. Ademas, estoy muy interesado en aclarar los origines de los Macias Valadez en Aguascalientes, y tengo varias lineas que no he podido atar a Alonso Macias Valadez y a Maria Retamosa. Debido ha que existen tantos nombres repetidos contemporaneos: Alonso, Nicolas, Pedro, Felipe, etc., muchos que son primos y sobrinos, otros duplicados pueden ser la misma persona casada mas de una vez, creo que una forma de eliminar la confusion en ir conectando cabos sueltos con datos que otros miembros de NR hayan ya resuelto.
Jaime
Pedro Macías Valadez y Josefa Gutiérrez también fueron padres de Sebastiana Gutiérrez, quien el 17 de mayo de 1669 presentó información matrimonial junto con su futuro esposo Miguel Martín de Sotomayor en Sierra de Pinos, para poder casar. El es hijo de Andrés Martín Camacho y María de Islas.
L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez
Jorge Luis,
Muchas gracias por la informacion. Solamente para confirmar, esta pareja: Miguel Martin casado con Sevastiana Gutierrez tuvieron un hijo Miguel Martin casado con Maria Medina, hija de Cristobal Medina y Maria (Leonor) de Avila? Yo tengo listado a un Miguel Martin Camacho casado con Sebastiana Macias, como padres de Miguel Martin II, y creo que deben ser los mismos.
Jaime
Jaime, no tengo registrado a ningún hijo de Miguel Martín de Sotomayor (Miguel Martín Camacho) y Sebastiana Gutiérrez (Sebastiana Macías Valadez); pero al igual que tu creo que son la misma pareja, ya ves que era muy común en aquellas épocas el usar indistintamente el apellido del padre o el de la madre. Yo digo que si son las mismas personas a las que nos referimos.
Hace un momento leí otro comentario tuyo en el que dices que hay varios homónimos entre los Macías Valadez y que es un poco confuso desenmarañar un poco su genealogía y estoy de acuerdo contigo, pues yo también he tenido algo de problemas con los Macías Valadez, por tanto homónimo y cambios de apellido.
L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez
Estimado Jaime:
Desciendo de esta pareja vía mi línea materna, Pedro Macías Valadez hijo o el mozo casó Francica Ruiz de Quiroga (como se conocía) el 5 de junio de 1678 en la parroquia de la Asunción de Aguascalientes hijos de Pedro Macías Valadez, padre y Josefa Gutiérrez; Bartolomé de Espitia y Juana González, Espinoza, de la Cerda Elizalde (he visto todos estos apellidos vínculado con esta dama, por lo tanto también son mis antepasados). Francisca Ruiz de Quiroga II, la nieta, falleció el 23 de diciembre de 1681. Bartolomé era hijo de Francisco de Espitia y Francisca Ruiz de Quiroga I, la mayor o la abuela, tuvieron 4 hijos que he documentado.
Ententaré buscar un testamento u otro registro que nos podía ayudar documentar la ascendencia de Pedro Macías Valadez o Josefa Gutiérrez.
Desciendes de esta pareja?
Daniel Méndez Camino
Today I returened from a very very long ordeal to Cocula , Jalisco to check on
the
Marriage of Lorenzo and Justa....(I had requested the books previously but the
priest was out of town and I neede
Maria:
I had a very similar experience trying to view the unfilmed records in Colotlan, Jalisco. The priest simply refused to let us see them even though we had previously gotten permission from another one of the priests.
Can I ask why you went down to the parish for these records instead of ordering the film? It seems that Cocula is pretty well filmed. It is much less of a hassle.
Matrimonios 1668-1749 FHL INTL Film 232884
Matrimonios 1740-1758 FHL INTL Film 232885
Matrimonios 1755-1763 FHL INTL Film 232886
P.S. In the future, can you trim your messages and change the subject to something more specific than "General Digest..." when you reply to a digest email?
Maria Hernandez
Arturo you can ask and please guide me. Why the trip? because I am green as
a lettuce; one of the members give me the guidance to Cocula as he remembered
some Lorenzo Preciado and Justa Michel in those records.
If you plese can you guide me to the way I should get into the film?
Mil Gracias!
Maria Hernandez
algo lenta pero entre y disculpa lo tenia enfrente...magnifica informacion.
Hello,
Has anyone seen this book? I was wondering if it was worth taking a drive up to Berkley - it appears to be the only library that has it.
I think this book would be worth the drive. If you do not want to go then maybe I can see if I can make the drive from los angeles in late July and then send you a copy of what I find. If you go before then please send me a copy.
Good luck
R.A. Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Angelina Markle"
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 19:53:09
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogical records from Nueva Galicia (Mexico),
1537-1777.
Hello,
Has anyone seen this book? I was wondering if it was worth taking a drive up to Berkley - it appears to be the only library that has it. Sounds interesting but I've been burned so many times with books that I wanted to see if I could get some input first.
Genealogical records from Nueva Galicia (Mexico), 1537-1777.
Card catalogue description: Collection of genealogical documents (originals and certified copies) concerning interrelated families of Nueva Galicia-notably the Flores, de la Torre, Alvarado,Contreras, Angulo, Figueroa, Padilla, Bañuelos, and Oñate families. Composed principally of files on genealogical inquiries conducted by the Audiencia of Guadalajara or lesser local tribunals at the request of petitioners José and Nicolás Flores de la Torre, Archdean Diego Flores de Latorre, Presbyter Luis Gómez de Alvarado, and others, who claimed kinship with such noted conquistadors as Pedro de Alvarado, Hernán Flores, Diego Pérez de la Torre (successor of Nuño de Guzmán), andFrancisco de Figueroa. With two appended genealogical reports, one prepared by the Precentor of the Guadalajara Cathedral on certain Juchipila families and the other on the Flores, de la Torre, and González families, compiled by the Inquisition and a university official, Dr. Vicente Ignacio Peña Brizuela, at the request of Vicente Flores de la Torre y González. Contains petitions, questionnaires, testimony, texts of royal decrees, viceregal or judicial orders, powers of attorney, certifications, related material, and two colored coats of arms.
Thanks,
-Angelina-
Daniel, R.A Ricci,
>From the responses that I've been getting this collection sounds like it
deserves attention - One of our new members in Mexico has related to me that
he has been studying it for over a year! While I live about an hours drive
from Berkeley my schedule is such that it is going to take me some time to
plan a trip out there. So, if anyone lives closer or wants to take the time
..... all I ask is that you keep the group posted on what you find. If it is
really as rich a find as it sounds this will probably turn into a group
effort.
The collection is in the Bancroft Library at Berkeley University.
-Angelina-
I live about an hour away but hope to go early July possibly, depending on my schedule.
Daniel
Im a big collector of documents that have anything to due with la NuevaGalicia, Obispado de Michoacan and early Mexico City. This is totally worth going to take a look.
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> From: angelina@markleweb.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 08:16:00 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogical records from Nueva Galicia(Mexico), 1537-1777.
>
> Daniel, R.A Ricci,
>
>>From the responses that I've been getting this collection sounds like it
> deserves attention - One of our new members in Mexico has related to me that
> he has been studying it for over a year! While I live about an hours drive
> from Berkeley my schedule is such that it is going to take me some time to
> plan a trip out there. So, if anyone lives closer or wants to take the time
> ..... all I ask is that you keep the group posted on what you find. If it is
> really as rich a find as it sounds this will probably turn into a group
> effort.
>
> The collection is in the Bancroft Library at Berkeley University.
>
> -Angelina-
>
>
Okay this really sounds good! Ill be going up soon, Im in San Jose!
Daniel
> From: angelina@markleweb.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 19:53:09 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogical records from Nueva Galicia (Mexico), 1537-1777.
>
> Hello,
>
> Has anyone seen this book? I was wondering if it was worth taking a drive up to Berkley - it appears to be the only library that has it. Sounds interesting but I've been burned so many times with books that I wanted to see if I could get some input first.
> Genealogical records from Nueva Galicia (Mexico), 1537-1777.
>
> Card catalogue description: Collection of genealogical documents (originals and certified copies) concerning interrelated families of Nueva Galicia-notably the Flores, de la Torre, Alvarado,Contreras, Angulo, Figueroa, Padilla, Bañuelos, and Oñate families. Composed principally of files on genealogical inquiries conducted by the Audiencia of Guadalajara or lesser local tribunals at the request of petitioners José and Nicolás Flores de la Torre, Archdean Diego Flores de Latorre, Presbyter Luis Gómez de Alvarado, and others, who claimed kinship with such noted conquistadors as Pedro de Alvarado, Hernán Flores, Diego Pérez de la Torre (successor of Nuño de Guzmán), andFrancisco de Figueroa. With two appended genealogical reports, one prepared by the Precentor of the Guadalajara Cathedral on certain Juchipila families and the other on the Flores, de la Torre, and González families, compiled by the Inquisition and a university official, Dr. Vicente Ignacio Peña Brizuela, at the request of Vicente Flores de la Torre y González. Contains petitions, questionnaires, testimony, texts of royal decrees, viceregal or judicial orders, powers of attorney, certifications, related material, and two colored coats of arms.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Angelina-
Hello Angelina,
I never heard of such a book, but it seems to me that a trip to Berkley to
look at this collection would be well worth it, especially if they let you
photocopy and/or photograph some of them. Without a doubt, these documents
would be of interest to most of us engaged in genealogical research of the
early settlers of Nueva Galicia. I, for one, would be very interested to
know what you find out. Please keep us posted. Are you related to any of
these families?
Regards,
BILL FIGUEROA
if you can look a these documents and copy them. ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Angelina Markle"
To:
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 9:53 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogical records from Nueva Galicia
(Mexico),1537-1777.
Hello,
Has anyone seen this book? I was wondering if it was worth taking a drive up
to Berkley - it appears to be the only library that has it. Sounds
interesting but I've been burned so many times with books that I wanted to
see if I could get some input first.
Genealogical records from Nueva Galicia (Mexico), 1537-1777.
Card catalogue description: Collection of genealogical documents ...etc.
Hello Bill,
Yes - I was intrigued when I came across references to this collection.
Hopefully I can get out to Berkley soon - and be able to make copies.
Like many in our group I descend from Diego Temino de Velasco & Francisca
Alcocer through their g-daughter Mariana Temino y Velasco who married
Lorenzo Padilla.
-Angelina-
Well, then, that makes us related!!!! Cool! Marge:)
On Jun 28, 2010, at 1:05 AM, Angelina Markle wrote:
Hello Bill,
Yes - I was intrigued when I came across references to this
collection. Hopefully I can get out to Berkley soon - and be able to
make copies.
Like many in our group I descend from Diego Temino de Velasco &
Francisca Alcocer through their g-daughter Mariana Temino y Velasco
who married Lorenzo Padilla.
-Angelina-
Angelina,
Did you get the chance to look at this book? I am planning a trip to the bay area later this month and wondered if anyone had further information about whether it was worth the side trip to Berkeley to read it. I am working on Angulo ancestors.
Thanks
Eric Freeman
Eric,
Unfortunately, as much as I'm itching to do it, I have not been able to get
out to Berkeley. All I can say is that Guillermo Tovar de Teresa (also a
part of this group) highly recommended that it be studied. I'd be interested
in knowing what you find out.
-Angelina-
I've updated my genealogy FILES and GEDCOM Tree (3,200 individuals) for JOSEPH de LEON.
Locations of Research:
Hello everyone, my name is Enrique and I started my research about 6 months ago. I am researching Covarrubias and Orozco from Tlaltenango as well as Renteria in Zacatecas.
thank you Joseph Puentes
You are great I will if you allow me be asking you some time next week a few
pointers once I am breef on certain technical procedure.
I allways had some one to do things
The nuestrosranchos.org group is dedicated to the study of genealogy of
the states of Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes.
First of all, I also agree that politics do not belong on this forum.
But I also do not agree with members publishing private emails.
From what I've read, it seems that the opinion was sent to a private email and the recipient of the opinion decided to make it public and also posted that person's name. Private emails should stay private in humbled opinion.
If that person had an issue with the opinion, he should have ignored it or should have continued communicating via private messages.
Just my 2 cents.
Sergio Gutierrez
Aquí en Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco tampoco había esa distinción para separar en un libro los bautismos de españoles, y en otro el de indígenas; aquí los libros incluyen a todas las castas en un solo libro.
Solo recuerdo que una vez fui a Acatic a revisar unas actas y me dijo la encargada de la notaría parroquial, que ahí llevaban dos tipos de libros de bautismo, uno para los hijos legítimos, y otro para los hijos naturales.Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
P.D. Live Search tiene una sorpresa buenísima, chécala aquí.
http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx
Be sure to double check the baptism book for Hijo's Naturales, I've found many, many records for children who's parents were married, in fact one line had 3 children in the Hijos Naturales when they were actually married.
Linda in B.C.
--- On Thu, 9/4/08, Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez wrote:
From: Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Evolucion de Apellidos
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, September 4, 2008, 6:50 AM
Aquí en Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco tampoco había esa distinción para
separar en un libro los bautismos de españoles, y en otro el de indígenas;
aquí los libros incluyen a todas las castas en un solo libro.
Solo recuerdo que una vez fui a Acatic a revisar unas actas y me dijo la
encargada de la notaría parroquial, que ahí llevaban dos tipos de libros de
bautismo, uno para los hijos legítimos, y otro para los hijos
naturales.Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
P.D. Live Search tiene una sorpresa buenísima, chécala aquí.
http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx
La separación de las partidas de registros parroquiales estaba determinada por el Arzobispado de México para toda la Nueva España, durante las visitas de arzobispos e inspectores del arzobispado era uno de los asuntos que se revisaban, si por error una partida de indios era anotada en un libro de españoles o viceversa, se ordenaba su trspaso y se anotaba "no vale por pertenecer al libro fulano.." y se firmaba por el visitador del arzobispado, este fenómeno era más cuidado en la zona central del virreinato con mayor concentración de población indigena, y sobre todo en donde se estaba más cerca del poder religioso y político, y se contaba con muchas más repúblicas de indios que en el norte del país, en donde la vida de los indios y sus comunidades presentaban algunas diferencias no sólo de número respecto a las de la zona central, el sur y el sureste.
La conquista y colonización de las Provincias de Nueva Galicia, Nueva Viscaya, Nuevo León, Nuevo Santander, Vieja y Nueva California, y Nuevo México fue distinta, el tipo de población indigena existente a la llegada de los españoles marcó la diferencia no sólo durante la Colonia.
El diferenciar los indios de los españoles, si estaba regulado pero en poblaciones relativamente nuevas y con menor población indígena tal vez no era práctico para los curas poder realizarla, ignoro cuantas veces, pero no creo que los arzobispos o visitadores fueran a fiscalizar las parroquias de las provincias del norte cada año como se hacía en el centro de México, desconozco las estadísticas, pero lo mismo debió suceder con el cobro del tributo, este asunto debió haber sido más complicado en el norte de México, ojalá alguien pueda recomendarme algún libro sobre el tributo en el Norte de la Nueva España.
Lic. Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez
> From: georgio_2386@hotmail.com> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 08:50:12 -0500> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Evolucion de Apellidos> > > Aquí en Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco tampoco había esa distinción para separar en un libro los bautismos de españoles, y en otro el de indígenas; aquí los libros incluyen a todas las castas en un solo libro.> > Solo recuerdo que una vez fui a Acatic a revisar unas actas y me dijo la encargada de la notaría parroquial, que ahí llevaban dos tipos de libros de bautismo, uno para los hijos legítimos, y otro para los hijos naturales.Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.> _________________________________________________________________> P.D. Live Search tiene una sorpresa buenísima, chécala aquí.> http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
Live Search premia tus búsquedas, llévate hasta ¡Un Auto!
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apellidos:
Fernando de la Campa
Gutierrez del alcalde
gutirrez del ribero
Rirero gurierrez
Una persona de Espana esta estudiando estos apellidos. Conocen si estos
apellidos tienen relacion a nuestra area de buscadera?
joseph
======================
Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)
I believe the name de la Campa y Cos is the family name of the conde de San Mateo Valparaiso, don Fernando de la Campa y Cos.
Nace en Cos, Valle del Cabezón de la Sal, Consejo de Cabuérniga, en las montañas de Burgos, de la Provincia y Diócesis de Santander, en el termino de Mazcuerras, partido judicial de Torre´lavega, en España. Es Bautizado en el día 6 de julio de este año en la Parroquia de Santiago, en Cos. Hijo legitimo de don Domingo de la Campa y Cos y de Doña Juliana de Cos y Sánchez de la Garzada, sus abuelos paternos son Don Sebastián de la Campa y Doña Ana Sánchez de Cos y por línea materna de Don Pedro de Cos y Doña Francisca Sánchez de la Garzada, todas familias de la mayor antigüedad y esclarecida Nobleza de dichas Montañas de Burgos.
This family de la Campa y Cos was very important in the history of Zacatecas. The family divides into the following families: The Cosme de la Campa family of Sombrete, Zacatecas, Mier y Campa family of Fresnillo,Zacatecas, and the Diaz de la Campa family of Malpaso and Vetagrande, Zacatecas. These families are descended from the families of Fernado de la Campa y Cos, 1st conde de San Mateo de Valparaiso, and Pedro de la Campa y Cos, Gobernador Capitan General de Coahuila.
Please let me know if you need further information as I would be happy to assist.
Christopher Barrios de Leon
Daniel Francisco Briones
Yo tambien encontre dos tipos de libros los de los espanoles y el otra de los indio indegenas con castas. Creo que el razon fue que en estos tiempos mucha gente trataron los indigenas muy mal. Pues eso es mi opinion!
Durante el Virreinato se aplicaron las Leyes de Indias y entonces se creó la
llamada República de Españoles y la República de Indios. Eran jurisdicciones
diferentes. La Iglesia Católica asumió ese principio.
Los Españoles tenían prohibido invadir la esfera de los Indios y los Indios
la de los Españoles. En el AGN de México, en el ramo Tierras, por ejemplo,
existen pleitos entre unos y otros, y mediaban leyes que los regulaban. En
muchísimos casos los Indios ganaban esos pleitos. En el siglo XIX, después
de la Independencia, esas Leyes protectoras para cada esfera fueron anuladas
y eso provocó que muchos Indios perdieran sus tierras, llamadas hasta
entonces "Propiedad Comunal Indígena". Eso dice la Historia.
Si en Nuestros Ranchos empezamos discusiones de tipo político con opiniones
como la suya, no podremos ocuparnos de la Genealogía, pues entonces
comenzaremos a discurrir si descendemos de los villanos o de las víctimas y
para eso existen otros blogs dedicados a temas de esa naturaleza. Nadie
tiene que avergonzarse de descender de unos o de otros, por eso, creo que
es mejor enterarse primero de la Historia que iniciar una discusión política
y de tema racial.
Según tengo entendido, Nuestros Ranchos es una página dedicada a la
Genealogía y no a la Política. Preferimos datos y fuentes para saber más de
nuestros orígenes y de nuestros antepasados, que opiniones sobre si
descendemos de los buenos o de los malos.
Saludos cordiales
-----Mensaje original-----
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de
Lamobucs@hotmail.com
Enviado el: Lunes, 14 de Febrero de 2011 11:57 p.m.
Para: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sobre de los libros de la iglesia
Daniel Francisco Briones
Yo tambien encontre dos tipos de libros los de los espanoles y el otra de
los indio indegenas con castas. Creo que el razon fue que en estos tiempos
mucha gente trataron los indigenas muy mal. Pues eso es mi opinion!
The nuestrosranchos.org group is dedicated to the study of genealogy of
the states of Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes.
Joseph,
Well said; it reflects my thoughts exactly!
Bien dicho y estoy de acuerdo!
Jose Carlos de Leon
Me da mucho gusto que, hasta ahora, muchos miembros de Nuestros Ranchos
apoyen mi propuesta, que ya expresé en mi anterior comunicación, de no
discutir en esta página web otros temas que no sean los genealógicos. Si
alguien desea discutir política que lo haga en otro foro. Gracias por esta
comprensión. Será muy importante que nuestra comunidad rechace discusiones
bizantinas y nos dediquemos a la historia de nuestras familias.
Guillermo Tovar de Teresa
-----Mensaje original-----
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Joseph
Puentes
Enviado el: Martes, 15 de Febrero de 2011 05:44 p.m.
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org; general@nuestrosranchos.org;
announce@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Opinion o Hechos
The nuestrosranchos.org group is dedicated to the study of genealogy of
the states of Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes. This group will not
tolerate ongoing discussions related to other topics whether they be of
politics, race or other concerns. Having said that sometimes there is an
absolute need to bring some of these topics into discussion. For example
if the government made decisions that directly affected how and where we
could find genealogical records I'd say it is on topic as long as
"opinion" doesn't creep into the discussion. . ."Just the facts,
please"! There are other examples, I'm sure. I would encourage everyone
in the group who believes that the discussion has crossed from "Just the
facts" to "opinion" to please please send me a private email
(joseph@nuestrosranchos.org). This is your group and I am from this day
forward making everyone accountable to monitor that the discussion stays
on topic and respectful.
El grupo nuestrosranchos.org esta dedicado al estudio de la genealogía
de los estados de Jalisco, de Zacatecas y de Aguascalientes. Este grupo
no tolerará las discusiones relacionadas con otros asuntos si estén de
política, de raza o de otras cosas. A veces hay una necesidad absoluta
de traer algunos de estos asuntos en la discusión. Por ejemplo si el
gobierno tomó las decisiones que afectaron directamente a cómo y a donde
podríamos encontrar los expedientes genealógicos dijere que ese asunto,
menos la opinión, es un buen asunto de discusión. Solamente los hechos,
por favor. Creo que hay otros ejemplos. Animaría cada uno en el grupo
que cree que la discusión ha cruzado de solamente de los hechos a la
opinión que me mandan un email privado (joseph@nuestrosranchos.org).
Éste es su grupo y de este día delantero estoy haciendo cada uno
responsable para supervisar que la discusión permanece en asunto y
respetuoso .
joseph
ps: these days I don't have a lot of time and I'll quickly do whatever I
have to bring an out of order discussion into order. If the thought
crosses your mind that "what you have to say" might be off topic then I
would suggest that "IT IS" and for you to take that discussion to
"PRIVATE EMAIL" with the individuals concerned. Now if you believe that
the individuals concerned are too many to easily number I can quickly
tutor you how to start a discussion group on Yahoo Groups where you can
discuss any and all topics.
p.d: actualmente en estos dias no tengo mucho tiempo y harare
rápidamente lo que tengo a traer a una discusión que es desordenada en
una discusión que sea ordenada. Si el pensamiento cruza su mente que
"qué usted tiene que decir" puede ser de asunto entonces yo sugeriría
que SEA y para que usted tome que la discusión al EMAIL PRIVADO con esos
individuos. Ahora si usted cree que los individuos referidos están a
muchos a numerar fácilmente puedo tutor rápidamente cómo comenzar a un
grupo de discusión en los grupos de Yahoo donde usted puede discutir
cualesquiera y todos los asuntos
======================
Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)
The nuestrosranchos.org group is dedicated to the study of genealogy of
the states of Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes.
I FOUND THIS SITE ON THE INTERNET, I DON'T KNOW IT'S VALIDITY BUT MAYBE IT WILL HELP: ALCALDE DIEGO VELASCO DE TREVINO FUNDADOR DE LA NUEVA GALICIA.
IF I WANT TO UPDATE MY AHNENTAFEL, MAY I ALSO ATTACH AN ALPHABETICAL LISTING OF ALL NAMES I HAVE RESEARCHED WITH DATES AND PARENTS AND SPOUSES, ETC. SO THEY WILL BE AVAILABLE TO OTHER MEMBERS?
Lester and Paul,
Thank you both for the information on the town of Corral de Almaguer. I had
not heard of it before.
The indexing of Jaime Holcombe's transcriptions of the Zacatecas Archive's 17th Century Notary records, mostly those of Felipe de Espinosa, is now complete and online at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
Yo también quiero agradecer a las personas que han hecho que este proyecto esté disponible en Nuestros Ranchos para ayudarnos en la búsqueda de nuestra Histroria Familiar.
En lo poco que he visto del proyecto, ya me han ayudado bastante. He avanzado en algunas ramas de mi árbol genealógico, y además me he enterado de cosas que no sabía. Las siguientes son algunas de las que me han servido para mi árbol genealógico.
Fichero 1803: 1659-11-15
Espinosa, Felipe Caja: 1 Libro: 3 Foja(s): 244-246v
261. Testamento. Zacatecas, 15 de noviembre 1659. (dice al margen. 2 de marzo 1662 por Ana de Saldaña.(-En 2 de octubre se saco de mandato de juez para Diego Cid de Escobar) Leonor de Saldaña viuda, hija legítima del capitán Juan de Herrera y Catalina de Saldaña, vecinos. Casó con Antonio de Alcaraz. Hijos, Diego de Herrera y Alcaraz, médico, Catalina de Saldaña y Alcaraz, mujer del capitán Pedro de Quijas Escalante, la madre María del Santisímo Sacramento monja profesa en el convento de Regina Celi de México, Antonio de Saldaña y Alcaraz, Gerónima de Alcaraz y Saldaña viuda del licenciado Diego Dávalos y Rivera, abogado de la Real Audiencia; el presbítero fray Jacinto de Herrera, religioso de San Francisco. Nicolás de Alcaraz y Pedro de Herrera Alcaráz, estos últimos fallecidos, cuyas herencias de su padre fueron a cargo de su hermano Mateo de Herrera. Casó en segundas nupcias con Bartolomé Hernández, ya difunto y sus hijos, Ana de Saldaña; Juana de Saldaña, murió después de su padre. Albaceas, capitán Pedro de Quijas Escalante su yerno, Ana de Saldaña su hija y a Nicolás de Quijas Escalante mi nieto. fjs. (244-246v)
Fichero 1756: 1673-07-27
Espinosa, Felipe Caja: 2 Libro: 6 Foja(s): 67-67v
Contrato de aprendiz. Zacatecas, 27 de julio 1673. Simón de Salas, vecino, minero pone por aprendiz a su hijo Pedro de Salas de 16 años con Cristóbal Hernández, maestro de hacer molinos por 4 años.
L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez
Primo Arturo Ramos,
Is the Miguel de Irasoqui y María de Escobedo listed in the below Notary Record the SAME
Miguel de Iracoqui listed as son-in-law of Francisco de Escobedo (b. 1575 and d. 24 Apr 1647)?? If so, then the Maria de Escobedo listed above must be Francisco de Escobedo's daughter.
" Record 505: 1674-07-20
Espinosa, Felipe Box: 2 Book: 7 Page(s): 78-79
117. Obligación. Zacatecas, 20 de julio 1674. Juan de la Torre y María Godona su legítima mujer, en mancomunidad se obligan a pagar 325 pesos en reales por otros tantos recibidos de José de Escobedo, vecino y minero, a Ana de Escobedo y Juana de Irazoqui, hermanas doncellas, vecinas hijas legítimas del regidor Miguel de Irasoqui y María de Escobedo, difuntos. El prestamista es deudor de las citadas hermanas. Es para poner una tienda de menudencias, que era de María Lechuga. fjs (78-79)
- Torre, Juan
- Godona, María
- Escobedo, José
- Escobedo, Ana
- Irazoqui, Juana
- Irazoqui, Miguel
- Escobedo, María
- Lechuga, María
[S27] Fundacion de Monte Escobedo, Leonardo de la Torre Berumen (Reliability: 3). El Capitán Francisco de Escobedo, falleció en la madrugada del 24 de abril de 1647 en la ciudad de Zacatecas, según lo dijo ante el señor Corregidor de la ciudad , don Miguel de Iracoqui, su yerno y albacea de los por él nombrados en una escritura cerrada y sellada, testamento y última voluntad del Capitán Escobedo, que presentó al señor Corregidor. Sabiéndose por dicha escritura que sus herederos, lo fueron sus hijos legítimos: doña María de Covarrubias, Ana de Escobedo, Francisca de Covarrubias, Juan de Escobedo, Isabel de Rodas, Antonia de Covarrubias y Francisco de Escobedo. En esta escritura se dice: que su mujer María de Covarrubias murió el 16 de octubre de 1646, y que su hijo Fernando de Escobedo, ya era difunto."
Jose Carlos de Leon
Jose:
I would sat that is the same person and you have found another branch of the Escobedo clan. Just one example of why having these extracts available to the public so important.
Hola Welester!
My name is Amelia Macias. I just joint the NR a few days ago and have very little data to go on in the search for my father's side of the family. My half mom's side is done thanks to my sister (LDS). I'm looking for the Macias and Alavarado families of Jalpa and Aguascalientes. Here is my connection to the Alvarado-Tostado surnames.
Hi Amelia ,
Sorry to say that I too am stuck with my Alvarados' . I've been trying unsuccessfully to trace my Great great Grandfather Candelario Alvarados tracks .
I have him being married twice in Villa de Santiago , Nuevo Leion for the first time that I know of in the year 1833 to a Maria Concepcion Garcia and ten years later to my Great great Grandmother Quirina Saldivar Gomez in the year 1844 .
I know that just about all the people from Santiago came from Saltillo , Coahuila and before that they came from either Zacatecas or Jalisco . My problem is that I cannot find the conneciton from Zacatecas , Jalisco to Coahuila to Santiago .
At present I don't have Candelarios parents or his second last name . I thought I found him in Saltillo but it turns out that is not correct .
However ! Amelia lets' keep in touch and see where we can end up , OK .
Your possibly primo ,
Welester G. Alvarado > > Hola Welester!> My name is Amelia Macias. I just joint the NR a few days ago and have very little data to go on in the search for my father's side of the family. My half mom's side is done thanks to my sister (LDS). I'm looking for the Macias and Alavarado families of Jalpa and Aguascalientes. Here is my connection to the Alvarado-Tostado surnames.> > My father, Jose Jesus Tostado Macias' parents were Jose Macias and Calletana Alvarado Tostado. I'm having trouble obtaining info from my father, medical reasons. My grandfather Jose was born 1867 in Jalpa and died in 1951 in Jalpa. My grandmother Calletana died in 1960 in Jalpa. My father's other siblings were as follows: > > Antonio Macias, married (Socorro) born 1917 died 21 Nov 2005 in Aguascalientes which still lives there.> Angel Macias, no info> Socorro Macias, died in Jalpa as at nine months> Socorro Macias, died in Jallpa at age 32> Jose Jesus Macias, b. 1923 in Jalpa> Jovita Macias, b. abt 1930
died in Jalpa as a baby> Jovita Macias born 10 April 1931> > Do you have any relatives from Jalpa? Do any of these names sound familiar to you?> > Thanks! Amelia Macias> > >
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Welester,
You mentioned that your Alvarados were originally from Zacatecas?
One of my father's cousins married a Magdaleno Alvarado from Moyahua, Zacatecas. He was born on July 22, 1857. Magdaleno's parents were Hurminio Alvarado and Ygnacia Sandoval. Magdaleno died in San Jose, CA on December 7, 1954.
Where in Zacatecas did your Alvarados originate?
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: roots
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 8:27 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] TO: Welester Alvarado
Hola Welester!
My name is Amelia Macias. I just joint the NR a few days ago and have very little data to go on in the search for my father's side of the family. My half mom's side is done thanks to my sister (LDS). I'm looking for the Macias and Alavarado families of Jalpa and Aguascalientes. Here is my connection to the Alvarado-Tostado surnames.
My father, Jose Jesus Tostado Macias' parents were Jose Macias and Calletana Alvarado Tostado. I'm having trouble obtaining info from my father, medical reasons. My grandfather Jose was born 1867 in Jalpa and died in 1951 in Jalpa. My grandmother Calletana died in 1960 in Jalpa. My father's other siblings were as follows:
Antonio Macias, married (Socorro) born 1917 died 21 Nov 2005 in Aguascalientes which still lives there.
Angel Macias, no info
Socorro Macias, died in Jalpa as at nine months
Socorro Macias, died in Jallpa at age 32
Jose Jesus Macias, b. 1923 in Jalpa
Jovita Macias, b. abt 1930 died in Jalpa as a baby
Jovita Macias born 10 April 1931
Do you have any relatives from Jalpa? Do any of these names sound familiar to you?
Thanks! Amelia Macias
Hi Emilie ,
My problem is that I can trace back the Saldivars , Trevinos and a few others but I cannot trace the Alvarados back to Zacatecas and that's the name I'm more concerned about .
Here is my dilema , Candelario ( my gg grandfather ) Alvarado is married twice in Villa de Santiago once in 1833 and a second time in 1844 to my gg grandmother Quirina Saldivar Gomez . Both marriages show no parents which means he was a viudo and so was she . I cannot for the life of me find his parents .
Now , they tell me that just about all the people from Santiago came from Saltillo and from Saltillo they came from Zacatecas , Jalisco or Aguascaliente through the RUTA DE PLATA . Anyway , I am going crazy trying to find any leads .
Unfortunately the records in Santiago are missing from 1833 to 1844 . Just my luck .
So there you have it , if you have any leads of any of your Alvarados' coming up north please fill me in .
Welester
> Welester,> > You mentioned that your Alvarados were originally from Zacatecas? > > One of my father's cousins married a Magdaleno Alvarado from Moyahua, Zacatecas. He was born on July 22, 1857. Magdaleno's parents were Hurminio Alvarado and Ygnacia Sandoval. Magdaleno died in San Jose, CA on December 7, 1954. > > Where in Zacatecas did your Alvarados originate?> > Emilie.
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Hi Emilie!
My name is Amelia Macias. I'm looking for family from Jalpa on my
father's side. His mother was Calletana Alvarado Tostado. Please read
my message to Welester. Please let me know if my names are familiar to
you in any way. Thanks.
Amelia
> [Original Message]
> From: Emilie Garcia
> To:
> Date: 9/27/2008 5:44:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] TO: Welester Alvarado
>
> Welester,
>
> You mentioned that your Alvarados were originally from Zacatecas?
>
> One of my father's cousins married a Magdaleno Alvarado from Moyahua,
Zacatecas. He was born on July 22, 1857. Magdaleno's parents were
Hurminio Alvarado and Ygnacia Sandoval. Magdaleno died in San Jose, CA on
December 7, 1954.
>
> Where in Zacatecas did your Alvarados originate?
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: roots
> To:
research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 8:27 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] TO: Welester Alvarado
>
>
>
> Hola Welester!
> My name is Amelia Macias. I just joint the NR a few days ago and have
very little data to go on in the search for my father's side of the family.
My half mom's side is done thanks to my sister (LDS). I'm looking for
the Macias and Alavarado families of Jalpa and Aguascalientes. Here is
my connection to the Alvarado-Tostado surnames.
>
> My father, Jose Jesus Tostado Macias' parents were Jose Macias and
Calletana Alvarado Tostado. I'm having trouble obtaining info from my
father, medical reasons. My grandfather Jose was born 1867 in Jalpa and
died in 1951 in Jalpa. My grandmother Calletana died in 1960 in Jalpa.
My father's other siblings were as follows:
>
> Antonio Macias, married (Socorro) born 1917 died 21 Nov 2005 in
Aguascalientes which still lives there.
> Angel Macias, no info
> Socorro Macias, died in Jalpa as at nine months
> Socorro Macias, died in Jallpa at age 32
> Jose Jesus Macias, b. 1923 in Jalpa
> Jovita Macias, b. abt 1930 died in Jalpa as a baby
> Jovita Macias born 10 April 1931
>
> Do you have any relatives from Jalpa? Do any of these names sound
familiar to you?
>
> Thanks! Amelia Macias
>
>
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Thank you, Lester.
My great-grandmother was Cayetana Almaguer. She was born in San Luis Potosí
about 1865. She married my great-grandfather, Juan Sotomayor, about 1886 in
San Pedro de las Colonias, Coahuila. He was born in 1855 in Rincon de
Romos, Aguascalientes. How and when they both got to Coahuila, I dont
know. Maybe eventually we can find a connection, even though the locations
are not the same. People moved, though.
Best wishes,
Beverly
Good morning Beverly ,
I have Almaguer in my line . If I can help you with any info , just let me
know .
My grandmother was Maria Antonia Almaguer de la Garza born in Villa de
Santiago , Nuevo Leon and I have info back to Joseph Almaguer and Marcela
Siller from Saltillo , Coahuila .
Welcome aboard,
Welester G. Alvarado
Beverly,
I found your e-mail of great interest. My wife is a Romero. I have traced her family line's progenitor, Bartholomew Romero, to a small town Corral de Almaguer, 60 miles east of Toledo, Spain, . Is there a connection between this town and your great grandmother? As we know, oftentimes an individual"s surname name was identified with his "home town".
I look forward to your response.
Paul Gomez
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
------Original Message------
From: bewald@gvtc.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Lester Alvarado
Sent: Feb 13, 2011 6:47 PM
Thank you, Lester.
My great-grandmother was Cayetana Almaguer. She was born in San Luis Potosí
about 1865. She married my great-grandfather, Juan Sotomayor, about 1886 in
San Pedro de las Colonias, Coahuila. He was born in 1855 in Rincon de
Romos, Aguascalientes. How and when they both got to Coahuila, I don’t
know. Maybe eventually we can find a connection, even though the locations
are not the same. People moved, though.
Best wishes,
Beverly
Good morning Beverly ,
I have Almaguer in my line . If I can help you with any info , just let me
know .
My grandmother was Maria Antonia Almaguer de la Garza born in Villa de
Santiago , Nuevo Leon and I have info back to Joseph Almaguer and Marcela
Siller from Saltillo , Coahuila .
Welcome aboard,
Welester G. Alvarado
You are absolutely right ! The town that you mention CORAL DE ALMAGUER is where all the Almaguers come from . There is a fellow in Villa de Santiago , Nuevo Leon that visited the town and spoke to the mayor . He was informed that the town holds on to the name but there are no Almaguers there for a very long time .
There are several explanations on the name , some say that it has arab origens Al-magher . Its possible being that almost all the surnames with the prefix AL do have middle east orignes but not all of them .
Take care,
Welester
> Beverly,
>
> I found your e-mail of great interest. My wife is a Romero. I have traced her family line's progenitor, Bartholomew Romero, to a small town Corral de Almaguer, 60 miles east of Toledo, Spain, . Is there a connection between this town and your great grandmother? As we know, oftentimes an individual"s surname name was identified with his "home town".
>
> I look forward to your response.
Gracia