Having spent considerable time with the Pilot.FamilySearch images of
christening records of Rincón de Romos and San José de Gracia,
Muchas gracias, Stuart, for taking the time to share your insights re the
source of copying errors. They are much appreciated. -Raquel
I am trying to document my link to Genaro Codina, composer of Marcha Zacatecas. He was born in the city of Zacatecas in 1852 to Santiago Codina and Maria Dolores Fernandez.
Hi Omar,
I don't have any new information for you but your Surname caught my attention since the only time I have seen it is when Godina is mispelled or read incorrectly... Except, I have heard of the composer, Genaro Codina and I believe there is also a city by the same name...
Out of curiosity, what is the name of Jose Eufracio Codina's spouse and date of marriage? Also, what is the name of Mucio Codina's spouse? I too have family from Jerez, Zacatecas and I am just curious if my family crossed your family's path...
Thanks,
Angie Godina
Hi Angie,
Interesting how these two surnames are so similar. Please look under the 'Files' tab at the top of the page and find Codina. I have a partial genealogy register (pdf document) for Jose Eufracio Codina. See if any of the names listed look familiar. After you see the names, please let me know what you think.
Thanks....Omar
My family said the same thing about toribio romo and mu granfather. They saiD that they were 3rd cousins. I did the research and found them to be 3rd cousins three times and another link of 3rd cousin once removed. Sometimes there so many links between individuals That they seem closer related than they actually are.
R A Ricci
------Original Message------
From: omar_codina@msn.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genaro Codina - composer
Sent: Dec 2, 2009 2:35 PM
I am trying to document my link to Genaro Codina, composer of Marcha Zacatecas. He was born in the city of Zacatecas in 1852 to Santiago Codina and Maria Dolores Fernandez. Family history has it that he was 'primo hermano' (first cousin) to my great grandfather, Mucio Codina. That would make Genaro's father and Mucio's father brothers and their father would be Jose Eufracio Codina.
Jose Eufracio married in Jerez, Zacatecas and had several children there but I found no record for Santiago Codina. FamilySearch IGI has an unsourced record for Santiago's marriage in Zacatecas, Zacatecas in 1851 but I have been unable to find the church record in the Family History Library films. My search has been hampered by missing years in the films.
If anyone has run across any of there names in your research, I would greatly appreciate your help.
Omar Codina
Looking for information and family from Vera family... Luis Vera y Francisca Jimenez, Julio Jimenez y Telesfora Esparza and Remualdo Vera y Tiburcia Paredes
I have info on Julio Jimenez and Telesfora as well on Romualdo Vera and Tiburcia PAredes,
what do you need exactly? Ancestors go back to at least mid 1700s. Kids? Grandkids?
-Daniel
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Hi Daniel.
I'm just learning about all this, and I have only the information on my grandmother's baptizm certificate. Her name was Maria Martina Vera, daughter of Luis Vera and Francisca Jimenez. Ramualdo and Tiburcia and Julio and Telesfora were her grandparents
Any information you can help me with would be greatly appreciated. I would like to know if there is family on the Vera side that we can learn about.
Thank you for responding.. you made my day !
Marina Shields
Muchas gracias a la persona anonima, miembro de este grupo, por haber proporcionado las imagenes de paginas de la Iglesia Mormona (LDS) que contienen gran cantidad de numeros validos de lotes (batch)d
Joseph, parece que te estas refiriendo a los números de Batch que se encuentran en: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18248
Con mucho gusto me gustaría ayudar a definir cuales números de batch sirven y cuales no. Yo eh utilizado listas similares y cuando no sirve el numero de batch de vez en cuando funciona el numero de microfilm puede ser utilizado para ver la misma lista que la del numero de batch.
Saludos desde Lago Salado
Eduardo H Seoane
Id be glad to volunteer!
-Daniel
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Many thanks to an anonymous member of the group for supplying these LDS page images that contain many valid batch numbers for Aguascalientes.
Joseph, it seems that you are referring to the batch numbers found at: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18248
With great pleasure I would like to help define which batch numbers work and which ones do not. I have used similar lists and when the batch number does not work, occasionally the microfilm number can be used to see the same list as that of the batch number.
Saludos desde Lago Salado
Eduardo H Seoane
Reading through the "Royal Blood" thread it is refreshing to see honesty and differing opinion handled with such respect and care...what a great bunch of people we have !
Re: "It boils down to choice, we are free to choose...all are valid choices, each one is a truth unto itself. I suppose we should rejoice that we a free to choose and BE what ever we want to be, even if it is as simple as "I am my fathers son"."
I agree with you for the most part. I also appreciated the thoughts of others regarding "being Mexican" or "being New Mexican." Good stories, all of them.
It reminds me of the book "The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse" by Vicente Blasco Ibanez, which had much to do with the same themes: immigrants, the stories of their struggles, their travel back to Europe, and their psychological identity problems with "mother" countries. (The book was originally in Spanish, "Los cuatro jinetes del apocalipsis."). The main character's family was originally French but wound up in Argentina, where they did very well and prospered. The main character eventually went back to France (long story) but his timing was bad: beginning of World War I. To make a long story short, he died a soldier in that gruesome war even though he hardly thought of himself as a French man, and a French soldier even less.
The family of the above dead soldier was beyond grief. Why did they go back to France? This was not their country. The family lost their only male heir. Horrible. The conclusion that the author made (or maybe it was me, as I read it) was that your country is where you raise children.
Yes, it is a state of mind, I suppose, but the Vicente Blasco Ibanez book suggests another possible way of looking at it. I was born in the US, as were my parents. I have traveled to Mexico (grandparents homeland) and Spain (Asturias/Basque homelands). My children were born and raised in America. I am an American.
Ed
I agree with you Ed, we need to stop identifying with our ancestors countries; that was them and
we are our own person. yes, my parents are from Mexico, I am not mexican I am "American" (from the US)
I was born in the US. We need to identify with our race instead of nationalities, which make things complicated.
I always hear something like "oh hes mexican and shes white" This does not make sense. Mexican is a nationality
not a race; mexicans can be of any race. I think the Mexican Government has been supressing european culture
and brainwashing people into believeing we are all mestizo. We need to recoginize Mexico is a nation where
all different types of cultures live together. Im not saying forget where your ancestors came from but rather
like Ed said we are where we are raised or born. I identify as a white american of Mexican descent. People should
label themselves like that instead of saying im German, Irish, Italian, Mexican, Colombian etc. It creates a
social issue like the terms: hispanic and latino. Instead of labeling Spanish speaking americans by their
race they just lump everyone together so they wont have to deal with it. Then Hispanic is treated as a race.
My two cents
Daniel
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The one thing that genealogical research should teach is that the farther back one goes the less important national identity, ethnicity and even race becomes.
I became interested in researching my family's ancestry not because I wanted to claim some illustrious ancestor as my own. That serves only a selfish purpose. To find ones forebears is to give them honor through remembrance. Who cares if they were white, black or brown; European, Asian, Amerindian or African; king, prince, or grandee. By bringing back their name and their story, we return to them their humanity.
------Original Message------
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] State of Mind?
Sent: Dec 4, 2009 8:11 PM
I agree with you Ed, we need to stop identifying with our ancestors countries; that was them and
we are our own person. yes, my parents are from Mexico, I am not mexican I am "American" (from the US)
I was born in the US. We need to identify with our race instead of nationalities, which make things complicated.
I always hear something like "oh hes mexican and shes white" This does not make sense. Mexican is a nationality
not a race; mexicans can be of any race. I think the Mexican Government has been supressing european culture
and brainwashing people into believeing we are all mestizo. We need to recoginize Mexico is a nation where
all different types of cultures live together. Im not saying forget where your ancestors came from but rather
like Ed said we are where we are raised or born. I identify as a white american of Mexican descent. People should
label themselves like that instead of saying im German, Irish, Italian, Mexican, Colombian etc. It creates a
social issue like the terms: hispanic and latino. Instead of labeling Spanish speaking americans by their
race they just lump everyone together so they wont have to deal with it. Then Hispanic is treated as a race.
My two cents
Daniel
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ripped65@aol.com is right. I do my ancestor Family Tree research so that their memory won't die when I do.
Jose Carlos de Leon
EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: ripped65@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 02:28:03 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] State of Mind?
I agree. I once heard it said that no one really dies until the last person who knew their name dies, so our genealogy work passes that knowledge to future generations after we are gone.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Jose Carlos de Leon
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] State of Mind?
ripped65@aol.com is right. I do my ancestor Family Tree research so that their memory won't die when I do.
Jose Carlos de Leon
EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: ripped65@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 02:28:03 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] State of Mind?
Well said!
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox.
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You're absolutely right, and spoken like a well-informed person living in the present, with only a desire to honor your ancestors, not live vicariously through them.
Unfortunately, in this day and age, the archaic idea of "limpieza de sangre" and its erroneous precepts still matter very much to many in this world. Whereas in reality, hybrid vigor is proven to be advantageous!
Alice BB
--- ripped65@aol.com wrote:
From: ripped65@aol.com
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] State of Mind?
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 02:28:03 +0000
The one thing that genealogical research should teach is that the farther back one goes the less important national identity, ethnicity and even race becomes.
I became interested in researching my family's ancestry not because I wanted to claim some illustrious ancestor as my own. That serves only a selfish purpose. To find ones forebears is to give them honor through remembrance. Who cares if they were white, black or brown; European, Asian, Amerindian or African; king, prince, or grandee. By bringing back their name and their story, we return to them their humanity.
------Original Message------
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] State of Mind?
Sent: Dec 4, 2009 8:11 PM
I agree with you Ed, we need to stop identifying with our ancestors countries; that was them and
we are our own person. yes, my parents are from Mexico, I am not mexican I am "American" (from the US)
I was born in the US. We need to identify with our race instead of nationalities, which make things complicated.
I always hear something like "oh hes mexican and shes white" This does not make sense. Mexican is a nationality
not a race; mexicans can be of any race. I think the Mexican Government has been supressing european culture
and brainwashing people into believeing we are all mestizo. We need to recoginize Mexico is a nation where
all different types of cultures live together. Im not saying forget where your ancestors came from but rather
like Ed said we are where we are raised or born. I identify as a white american of Mexican descent. People should
label themselves like that instead of saying im German, Irish, Italian, Mexican, Colombian etc. It creates a
social issue like the terms: hispanic and latino. Instead of labeling Spanish speaking americans by their
race they just lump everyone together so they wont have to deal with it. Then Hispanic is treated as a race.
My two cents
Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail gives you a free,exclusive gift.
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Sigue en espanol
Hello Rosie,
For what it's worth, there is a very long list of places within
Jalostotitlán (which is in Teocaltiche). These are the ones I have
discovered so far: el Aire, Amargosa, Arroyo del Róbado, Arroyo del
Prieto, Aventurero, Azuela, Azúchiles, Bajío, Barreras, Buenavista,
Calachimé, Campinita, Carretero, Casas Viejas, Casita, pueblo Cañada,
Cañada de Guzmán, Cañada Honda, Cañada-Delgadillo, Cedros, Cerro
Blanco, Cerro Colorado, Cerro de la Cruz, Cerro de la Llave, Cerro del
Corazón, Coca, la Cofradía, Corral de Piedra, Coyotes, Cueva, el
Deseo, Epazote, Estancia, Gabrieles, Cavilán, Hornos, Huisquilco,
Huiizachal, hacienda el Húmedo, Jalostotitlán, Jerusalem, Jesús María,
la Joya, La Venta, Labor de Alvalsa, Labor de Jiménez, Ladinos,
Lagunas, hacienda la Laja, el Laurel, Llano, Lobos, Loma del Toro,
Mesa Alta, Mesa de Carranza, la Mina, congregación Mitic, Monte Largo,
Mulato, Paleta, Pamarejo, Palo Alto, Palo de Cruz, Palo de la Laja,
congregación Pegueros, Peña Colorado, Peñón, Portales, Potrerillo,
hacienda Potrero, rancho Potrero, Potrero Blanco, Rambla, Rincón de
San Miguel, el Rodeo, el Ruano, Río Verde, Sacristía, Salitre,
Saltillo, Salto de Agua, San Francisco, congregación San Gaspar, San
Isidro, San José de las Tablas, San Juan, San Vicente, Santa Ana,
Santa María de la O., Santa Rosalía, Santa Rosalía, Saucito, Soyates,
Talincoyunque, el Talle, Tapona, Tecameca, congregación Temacapulín,
rancho Temacapulín, Tenería, congregación Teocaltitán, Tetillas, las
Torres, Tortuga, el Trigo, Tuseros, Varas Dulce, Venta y Rodeo,
hacienda los Yugos, Zapotillo.
All these are ranchos except as noted.
The major areas within Teocaltiche are Jalostotitlán, Encarnación,
Paso de Sotos, and Teocaltiche itself. I would check these to see if
they have records. I suspect Teocaltiche would be the most likely to
have its own parish records.
Córdova and Ramírez are both important names in my research. But they
are primarily in San José de Gracia, Aguascalientes. I researched
placenames in Jalostotitlán because it borders Aguascalientes.
Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 2:23:01 AM, you wrote:
> Does anyone know of a nearby place to Jalostotitlan
--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
Hi Rosie, if you cant find Gama continue looking or Gama and also Estrada. A typical alteno family might have included different names used. Or it could have been a compound name de Estrada y Gama? The marriage recordusually had the places were the person was born, have you checked informacion matrimonial? Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
How could I access informacion matrimonial? Where is it? My ancestors were married in Jalostotitlan in 1822 and in 1797.
Rosie Cordova
Hi Rosie, look at the micofilm list for Jalos on familysearch and it will list bautismos, matrimonios, informacion matrimoniales etc.
_________________________________________________________________
I started my genealogical research less than a year ago and have relied on Family Search and Nuestros Ranchos for all my information.
What else could I do to find new information when I am stuck with lack of information about an ancestor? I go back as far as 1822 and 1797 both in Jalostotitlan. Do you know of any books or other sources to try to get information?
Does anyone know if the Registro Civil in Jalisco is good at finding information if one has the date of birth and place but not sure as to when the child was registered?
Rosie Cordova
Dear Rosie:
I must assume you have viewed the actual church record for the 1822 marriage? If not, you want to order the microfilm. Although not all the marriages were recorded in detail, many of them have where the bride and groom originated. That would be my first start.
Then realize that many, many records from Jalostotitlan are not transcribed on familysearch, but you can still order the microfilms from Salt Lake City for the years you are interested. Go to the Library tab at the top of familysearch.org and then go to library catalog in the drop down box, click on Place Name search and put in Jalostotitlan part of Mexico. It will show you what is available and then click on church records and film notes. The film notes will list all the films and their call numbers.
Sorry this is with a machine translation, best I can do right now!
¿Rosie estimado:
supongo que debo ha visto el registro de la Iglesia real para el matrimonio de 1822? Si no, que desea ordenar el microfilm. Aunque no todos los matrimonios fueron registrados en detalle, muchos de ellos han donde la novia y novio originado. Esto es lo que mi primera salida. A continuación, darse cuenta de que no se transcribieron registros de muchos, muchos de Jalostotitlan en familysearch, pero todavía puede solicitar los microfilmes de Salt Lake City para los años que le interesan. Ir a la ficha de biblioteca en la parte superior de familysearch.org y, a continuación, vaya al catálogo de biblioteca en el cuadro desplegable, haga clic en búsqueda de nombre de lugar y poner en la parte Jalostotitlan de México. Se muestran lo que está disponible y, a continuación, haga clic en registros de la iglesias y notas de la película. Las notas de la película se mostrarán todas las películas y sus números de llamada.
from my own personal experience I found baptism and civil birth registrations are not always the same year. My gr-grandmother was registered one year after her baptism and actual birth. They changed the year so that made her a year younger but I'm told they were fined if they did not register in a timely manner so they were just trying to save money. Had I found the civil birth registration first I would have been off of her actual birth date by one year. I did find the civil birth registrations listed the ages of the parents but not always the grandparents. I also found they did not always know their correct ages since they varied so much from child to child! I had to wonder if the witness or padrino was giving the info and just guessing at the ages of the parents?
LInda in B.C.
--- On Wed, 9/23/09, rcordovamba@aol.com wrote:
From: rcordovamba@aol.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Estrada/Gama names
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 2:39 AM
I started my genealogical research less than a year ago and have relied on Family Search and Nuestros Ranchos for all my information.
What else could I do to find new information when I am stuck with lack of information about an ancestor? I go back as far as 1822 and 1797 both in Jalostotitlan. Do you know of any books or other sources to try to get information?
Does anyone know if the Registro Civil in Jalisco is good at finding information if one has the date of birth and place but not sure as to when the child was registered?
Rosie Cordova
Hi everyone,
I am a new member of Nuestros Ranchos so I wanted to introduce myself. So
far I've loved the conversations that I've witnessed here.
Welcome Daisy,
You did a very good job of presenting yourself, your family names, your areas of interest and provided your genealogy as you know it.
You made it easy for anyone who has information in your area of research to help you. For a newbie to this group I was impressed.
I liked the part of new primos, as if you needed anymore. That's the case for most of us, we have many cousins that we know of, it's those long lost elusive cousins that we don't know, that we'd like to find.
I hope it proves to be fruitful for you and welcome to this wonderful group. You'll find someone always willing to help if you pose the right question with as many details as possible.
Saludos de San Jose, Ca
________________________________
From: Daisy Larios
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, December 5, 2009 12:04:42 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hello!
Hi everyone,
I am a new member of Nuestros Ranchos so I wanted to introduce myself. So
far I've loved the conversations that I've witnessed here. It's great to
have this community!
I am primarily researching the pueblos of Juchitlan and Tecolotlan, Jalisco,
as well as the rancho of San Gaspar, in the municipio de Union de Tula. My
family is from Juchitlan, but my Larios and Ramirez lines go back many times
over in San Gaspar, where there is a concentration of us. My Preciado line
goes back to Tecolotlan, where there are many of us. Other surnames I am
researching include Lomeli, Llamas, Gonzalez, Lepe, and Medina. Please see
my family file to see what I have so far:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18215
If anyone is interested in sharing information, please let me know! I'd love
to meet some new primos (as if I don't have enough, LOL!)
Daisy,
I took a look at your family file, because my wife is a Larios from Ciudad Guzman, Jalisco. And I was able make some additions to your file. Here is a updated version of what you sent to the group:
Third Generation
4. Jose Larios was born on 15 Aug 1917 in San Gaspar, Jalisco, Mexico. He died on 4 Dec 2008 in Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico. Jose married Juevntina Ramirez.
5. Juevntina Ramirez was born on 25 Jan 1922 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. She died on 1 Nov 2009 in Inglewood, California, USA.
6. Jose Ramiro Preciado was born on 5 Mar 1918 in La Villita de Guadalupe, Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. He died on 12 Nov 1999 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. Jose married Silvina Llamas on 29 Mar 1940.
7. Silvina Llamas was born on 2 Dec 1923 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. She died on 1 Feb 2009 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
Fourth Generation
8. Casimiro Larios Ramirez was born on 4 Feb 1875 in San Gaspar, Jalisco, Mexico. He was christened on 12 Feb 1875 in Union de Tula, Jalisco, Mexico. He died on 8 Aug 1947 in San Gaspar, Jalisco, Mexico. Casimiro married Teresa Ramirez.
9. Teresa Ramirez was born in San Gaspar, Jalisco, Mexico. She was christened on 25 May 1884 in Union de Tula, Jalisco, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 4 M i. Jose Larios was born on 15 Aug 1917. He died on 4 Dec 2008.
10. Merced Ramirez was born on 24 Sep 1901 in Los Ailes or Ayutla, Jalisco, Mexico. He died in 1936. Merced married Carmen Medina.
11. Carmen Medina was born on 16 Jul 1904 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. She died on 16 Nov 1996 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 5 F i. Juevntina Ramirez was born on 25 Jan 1922. She died on 1 Nov 2009.
12. Juan Preciado Flores was born on 16 Jun 1872 in Santa Martha, Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico. He died in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. Juan married Victoriana Lomeli Hernandez in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
13. Victoriana Lomeli Hernandez was born on 11 Dec 1880 in Los Guajes, Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. She was christened on 12 Dec 1880 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. She died on 3 Apr 1960 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 6 M i. Jose Ramiro Preciado was born on 5 Mar 1918. He died on 12 Nov 1999.
14. Susano Llamas was christened on 25 May 1893 in Sagrado Corazón de Jesús, Juchitlán, Jalisco, Mexico. He died in Mar 1928 in La Toma de Cocula. Susano married Francisca Gonzalez in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
15. Francisca Gonzalez was born on 29 Jan 1899 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. She died on 18 Oct 1955 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 7 F i. Silvina Llamas was born on 2 Dec 1923. She died on 1 Feb 2009.
Fifth Generation
16. Gonsalo LARIOS RAMIRES was christened on 12 Jan 1852 in Nuestra Señora de la Natividad, Cuautitlán, Jalisco, Mexico. Gonsalo married MARIA PAULA RAMIRES ESPARZA on 27 Oct 1873 in San Gaspar, Jalisco, Mexico.
17. MARIA PAULA RAMIRES ESPARZA was born in San Gaspar, Jalisco, Mexico. She was christened on 29 Jan 1854 in Corazon De Jesus, Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 8 M i. Casimiro Larios Ramirez was born on 4 Feb 1875. He died on 8 Aug 1947.
F ii. Maria Nasaria Larios was christened on 30 Jul 1883 in Union de Tula, Jalisco, Mexico.
18. Doroteo Ramirez Gomez was born in 1854 in San Gaspar, Jalisco, Mexico. Doroteo married Maria Isaac Esparza Gomez on 17 May 1879 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
19. Maria Isaac Esparza Gomez was born in 1859 in San Gaspar, Jalisco, Mexico. She was christened on 3 Jun 1860 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 9 F i. Teresa Ramirez was christened on 25 May 1884.
F ii. M . Dolores Ramirez was christened on 29 Aug 1892 in Union de Tula, Jalisco, Mexico.
F iii. Maria Bernardina Ramirez was christened on 26 May 1890 in Union de Tula, Jalisco, Mexico.
20. Isidoro Ramirez was born in Amacueca, Jalisco, Mexico. Isidoro married Herlinda Lepe.
21. Herlinda Lepe was born in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 10 M i. Merced Ramirez was born on 24 Sep 1901. He died in 1936.
M ii. Martin Ramirez was christened on 12 Nov 1890 in San Miguel, Ayutla, Jalisco, Mexico.
22. Refugio "Cuco" Medina was born in Sayula, Jalisco, Mexico. Cuco married Mariana Rizo.
23. Mariana Rizo.
They had the following children.
F i. Gregoria Medina was christened on 18 Mar 1899 in Sagrado Corazón de Jesús, Juchitlán, Jalisco, Mexico.
+ 11 F ii. Carmen Medina was born on 16 Jul 1904. She died on 16 Nov 1996.
M iii. Francisco Medina was christened on 5 Oct 1905 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
M iv. Teofilo Medina was christened on 7 Feb 1897 in Sagrado Corazón de Jesús, Juchitlán, Jalisco, Mexico.
M v. J. Ygnacio Medina was christened on 5 Feb 1908 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
24. Jose Juan Preciado Aguilar was born in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico. Jose married Ma . Merced Flores Lepe on 12 Jun 1871 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
25. Ma . Merced Flores Lepe was born on 24 Sep 1855. She was christened on 24 Sep 1855 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 12 M i. Juan Preciado Flores was born on 16 Jun 1872.
F ii. Cándida Preciado was christened on 2 Feb 1877 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
M iii. Adrian Preciado Flores was christened on 8 Sep 1874 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
26. Cipriano Lomeli. Cipriano married Celsa Hernandez on 16 Feb 1863 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
27. Celsa Hernandez.
They had the following children.
+ 13 F i. Victoriana Lomeli Hernandez was born on 11 Dec 1880. She died on 3 Apr 1960.
F ii. Juana Lomeli was born in 1893 in Jalisco, Mexico. She was christened on 14 Jul 1887 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. She died in 1980 in Manzanillo, Colima, Mexico.
F iii. Porfiria Lomelí was christened on 3 Mar 1885 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
M iv. Roberto Lomeli Hernandes was christened on 29 Mar 1864 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
F v. Aniceta Lomeli Hernandez was born on 17 Apr 1874. She was christened on 19 Apr 1874 in San Francisco, Colima, Mexico.
28. Panfilo Llamas was born in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. He was christened on 3 Jun 1879 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. He died in Jun 1943 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. Panfilo married Florencia Jimenez.
29. Florencia Jimenez.
They had the following children.
+ 14 M i. Susano Llamas was christened on 25 May 1893. He died in Mar 1928.
F ii. Francisca Llamas was christened on 6 Jun 1895 in Sagrado Corazón de Jesús, Juchitlán, Jalisco, Mexico.
F iii. Martina Llamas was christened on 1 Feb 1897 in Sagrado Corazón de Jesús, Juchitlán, Jalisco, Mexico.
F iv. Manuela Llamas was christened on 5 Jan 1900 in Sagrado Corazón de Jesús, Juchitlán, Jalisco, Mexico.
F v. Maria Jesus Llamas was christened on 17 Oct 1902 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
M vi. Felipe Llamas was christened on 18 Sep 1903 in Sagrado Corazón de Jesús, Juchitlán, Jalisco, Mexico.
M vii. Jose Llamas was christened on 12 Apr 1907 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
30. Anastasio Gonzalez. Anastasio married Maria Isac Gallardo Guzman.
31. Maria Isac Gallardo Guzman was born on 3 Jun in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. She died on 23 Sep 1944 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
They had the following children.
F i. Julia Gonzalez was christened on 22 Dec 1879 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
M ii. Pablo Gonzales Candelaria was christened on 18 Jan 1885 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
F iii. Maria Gonzales was christened on 22 Oct 1893 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
M iv. Silvestre Gonzalez was christened on 3 Jan 1897 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
+ 15 F v. Francisca Gonzalez was born on 29 Jan 1899. She died on 18 Oct 1955.
Sixth Generation
32. Rafael Larios. Rafael married MA. MARCELINA RAMIRES MADRIGAL.
33. MA. MARCELINA RAMIRES MADRIGAL was christened on 1 May 1826 in Union De Tula, Jalisco, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 16 M i. Gonsalo LARIOS RAMIRES was christened on 12 Jan 1852.
M ii. Ysidoro LARIOS RAMIRES was christened on 7 Apr 1850 in Nuestra Señora de la Natividad, Cuautitlán, Jalisco, Mexico.
M iii. Juan Larios.
34. Jose Estevan Ramires Nunes was born in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. He was christened on 11 Aug 1833 in Union de Tula, Jalisco, Mexico. Jose married Ramona Esparza on 6 Jun 1852 in Corazon De Jesus, Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
35. Ramona Esparza.
They had the following children.
+ 17 F i. MARIA PAULA RAMIRES ESPARZA was christened on 29 Jan 1854.
F ii. TECLA RAMIREZ ESPARZA was christened on 24 Sep 1855 in Corazon De Jesus, Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
F iii. MARIA DONACIANA RAMIREZ ESPARZA was christened on 11 Sep 1859 in Union De Tula, Jalisco, Mexico.
F iv. Cesilia Ramirez was born on 23 Nov 1866 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. She was christened on 1 Dec 1866 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
F v. TRANQUILINA RAMIRES ESPARZA was christened on 18 Jul 1869 in Union De Tula, Jalisco, Mexico.
M vi. TIBURCIO RAMIRES ESPARZA was born on 11 Aug 1871. He was christened on 24 Aug 1871 in Union De Tula, Jalisco, Mexico.
M vii. JUAN RAMIRES ESPARZA was born on 29 Aug 1874. He was christened on 1 Sep 1874 in Union De Tula, Jalisco, Mexico.
36. Esteban RAMIREZ was born in 1834 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. Esteban married Francisca CHAVEZ in 1853 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
37. Francisca CHAVEZ was born in 1839 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 18 M i. Doroteo Ramirez Gomez was born in 1854.
38. Marciano ESPARZA. Marciano married Maria GOMEZ.
39. Maria GOMEZ.
They had the following children.
+ 19 F i. Maria Isaac Esparza Gomez was born in 1859.
48. Ygnacio Preciado. Ygnacio married Maria Aguilar.
49. Maria Aguilar.
They had the following children.
+ 24 M i. Jose Juan Preciado Aguilar.
50. Juan Francisco Flores. Juan married Mara . Buenaventura De Jesus Lepe Branbila on 4 Nov 1854 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
51. Mara . Buenaventura De Jesus Lepe Branbila was christened on 14 Jul 1839 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 25 F i. Ma . Merced Flores Lepe was born on 24 Sep 1855.
F ii. Antonia Crecenciana Flores Lepe was christened on 6 May 1857 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
M iii. Juan Flores Lepe was christened on 24 Nov 1861 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
F iv. Leonila Flores Lepe was christened on 17 Jan 1863 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
M v. Ramon Manuel Flores Lepe was christened on 18 Jun 1859 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
52. Rafael Lomeli. Rafael married Anacleta Henriquez.
53. Anacleta Henriquez.
They had the following children.
+ 26 M i. Cipriano Lomeli.
54. Mateo Hernandez. Mateo married Luisa Gomez.
55. Luisa Gomez.
They had the following children.
+ 27 F i. Celsa Hernandez.
56. Florencio Llamas. Florencio married Juana Huezo.
57. Juana Huezo.
They had the following children.
M i. Luis Llamas was christened on 22 Jun 1862 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
M ii. Juan Llamas was christened on 9 Feb 1867 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
F iii. Leonila Llamas Huezo was born in 1874 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. She was christened on 17 Jan 1865 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico. She died on 18 Feb 1914.
+ 28 M iv. Panfilo Llamas was christened on 3 Jun 1879. He died in Jun 1943.
F v. Severina Llamas was christened on 12 Feb 1880 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
58. Herculano Jimenez. Herculano married Antonia Pina.
59. Antonia Pina.
They had the following children.
+ 29 F i. Florencia Jimenez.
Seventh Generation
64. Rafael LARIOS. Rafael married Rosa GARCIA.
65. Rosa GARCIA.
They had the following children.
+ 32 M i. Rafael Larios.
M ii. Manuel Larios.
M iii. Jose Manuel Larios Villegas.
F iv. Felipa Larios.
66. JUAN JOSE RAMIRES. JUAN married MA. MAGDALENA MADRIGAL on 13 Feb 1825 in Union De Tula, Jalisco, Mexico.
67. MA. MAGDALENA MADRIGAL.
They had the following children.
+ 33 F i. MA. MARCELINA RAMIRES MADRIGAL was christened on 1 May 1826.
M ii. JOSE FELIPE RAMIRES MADRIGAL was christened on 27 May 1828 in Union De Tula, Jalisco, Mexico.
F iii. PETRONILA RAMIRES MADRIGAL was christened on 6 Jun 1833 in Union De Tula, Jalisco, Mexico.
F iv. MARCIANA RAMIRES MADRIGAL was christened on 17 Jul 1831 in San Miguel, Ejutla, Jalisco, Mexico.
F v. MA. JOSEFA RAMIRES MADRIGAL was christened on 27 Mar 1837 in Union De Tula, Jalisco, Mexico.
F vi. Castola Ruperta Ramires Madrigal was christened on 1 Apr 1835 in Union de Tula, Jalisco, Mexico.
68. Visente Ramirez was christened on 12 Feb 1788 in San Miguel, Ejutla, Jalisco, Mexico. Visente married Mateana Nunez on 16 Mar 1813 in San Miguel, Ejutla, Jalisco, Mexico.
69. Mateana Nunez.
They had the following children.
F i. Juana Baptista Ramirez Nunez was christened on 10 Jul 1814 in San Miguel, Ejutla, Jalisco, Mexico.
M ii. Jose Estevan Ramires Nunes was christened on 10 Aug 1819 in San Miguel, Ejutla, Jalisco, Mexico.
F iii. Ma . Ynes Ramires Nunes was christened on 28 Apr 1822 in Union de Tula, Jalisco, Mexico.
M iv. Candelario Ramires Nunes was christened on 10 Feb 1828 in San Miguel, Ejutla, Jalisco, Mexico.
M v. Jose Mascimo Ramires Nunes was christened on 4 Jul 1824 in Union de Tula, Jalisco, Mexico.
F vi. Maria Sotera Ramirez Nunez was christened on 3 May 1830 in San Miguel, Ejutla, Jalisco, Mexico.
+ 34 M vii. Jose Estevan Ramires Nunes was christened on 11 Aug 1833.
F viii. Ma . Franca . Ramires Nunes was christened on 27 Sep 1836 in Union de Tula, Jalisco, Mexico.
F ix. Luisa Ramirez.
F x. Jacinta Ramires.
70. Lauriano Esparza was born in 1829 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico. Lauriano married Ysidora De Dios in 1848 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
71. Ysidora De Dios was born in 1829 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 35 F i. Ramona Esparza.
F ii. Ma . Petra Esparza Dios was christened on 8 Aug 1852 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
F iii. Ma . Margarita Esparza Dios was christened on 25 Feb 1847 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
M iv. Jose Monico De Jesus Esparsa Dios was christened on 9 May 1844 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
F v. Valentina ESPARZA was born in 1849 in Juchitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
102. Jose De Jesus Lepe Serrano was born on 5 Dec 1802. He was christened on 8 Dec 1802 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico. Jose married Antonia Brambila on 24 Jan 1825 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
103. Antonia Brambila was born in Apr 1811 in Ayotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 51 F i. Mara . Buenaventura De Jesus Lepe Branbila was christened on 14 Jul 1839.
F ii. Maria Desideria Lepe Brambila was christened on 23 Apr 1835 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
F iii. Maria Filomena De Jesus Lepe Brambila was christened on 5 Jul 1831 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
M iv. Jose Nepomuseno De Jesus Lepe Bramvila was christened on 21 Jun 1826 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
F v. Josefa Lepe was born on 18 Mar 1830 in Tamazula, Jalisco
Does anybody in this group knows what Saints' names were celebrated or listed in the religious calendar for February 23?
Hello 1gnzlz,
Saints Day Wall Calendar. Unknown Source. Accuracy unknown.
Actually, it came from a calendar provided by a local business.
I no longer have the original. I occasionally find this calendar
useful - Many children were named for the patron saint of their birth
or sometimes christening date.
Enero
1. Oct de la Natividad del Señor
2. San Gregorio
3. Santa Genoveva
4. San Prisciliano
5. Santa amela
6. Los Santos Reyes
7. San Raymundo
8. San Apolinar
9. San Julián
10. San Gonzalo
11. San Higinio
12. San Alfredo
13. San Hilario
14. Santa Macrina
15. San Mauro
16. San Marcelo
17. San Antonio Abad
18. San Leobardo
19. San Mario
20. San Fabián y Sebestián
21. Santa Inés
22. San Vicente
23. San Ildefonso
24. San Francisco de Sales
25. Converción de San Pablo
26. San Timoteo
27. Santa Ángela
28. Santo Tomás de Aquino
29. San Aquilino
30. Santa Martina
31. San Juan Bosco
Febrero
1. Santa Viridiana
2. Virgen de la Candelaria
3. San Blás
4. Santa Agueda
5. Proclamación de la Constitución
6. San Teófilo
7. San Ricardo
8. San Lucio
9. San Niceforo
10. Santa Escolástica
11. Nuestra Señora de Lourdes
12. Santa Eulalia
13. San Benigno
14. San Valentín
15. San Faustino
16. San Onesimo
17. San Teodulo
18. San Máximo M
19. San Gabino
20. San Eleuterio
21. Santa Irene
22. San Pascasio
23. San Policarpo
24. Día de la Bandera (flag day)
25. Beato Sebestián de Apricio
26. San Néstor
27. San Leandro
28. Carnaval San Hilario
29.
Marzo
1. San Félix
2. San Federico
3. San Emeterio
4. San Casimiro
5. San Eusebio
6. San Olegario
7. Santa Felicitas
8. San Juan de Dios
9. San Paciano
10. San Atalo
11. San Vicente
12. Santa Josefina
13. San Rodrigo
14. Santa Matilde
15. San Raymundo
16. San Heriberto
17. San Patricio
18. San Cirilo
19. San José
20. San Cutberto
21. Natividad de Benito Juárez
22. San Zacarías
23. San Toribio
24. Santa Catalina
25. La Anunciación de Señor
26. San Braulio
27. Santa Lidia
28. San Prisco
29. San Victorino
30. San Regulo
31. San Benjamín
Abril
1. San Melitón
2. San Francisco de Paula
3. San Ricardo
4. San Isidoro
5. San Vicente
6. San Celso
7. San Juan Bautista de Lasalle
8. San Alberto
9. Domingo Ramos
10. San Ezequiel
11. San Isaac
12. San Damián
13. Jueves Santos
14. Viernes Santos
15. Sábado Santo
16. Domingo de Pascua
17. San Aniceto
18. San Perfecto
19. San León IX
20. San Crisoforo
21. San Anselmo
22. San Sotero
23. San Jorge
24. San Fidel
25. San Marcos
26. San Cleto
27. Santa Zita
28. San Prudencio
29. Santa Catalina de Sena
30. San Pío V
Mayo
1. Día del Trabajo
2. San Atanasio
3. La Santa Cruz
4. Santos Felipe y Santiago
5. Aniversario Batalla de Puebla
6. San Evodio
7. San Flavio
8. San Bonifacio
9. San Nicolás
10. San Antonio
11. San Máximo
12. San Aquileo
13. Santa Imelda
14. San Matías
15. San Isidro
16. San Ubaldo
17. San Pascual Bailón
18. Santa Claudia
19. Santa Prudenciana
20. San Orlando
21. San Valente
22. Santa Rita de Casia
23. San Epitacio
24. San Donaciano
25. Santa María Magdalena
26. San Felipe Neri
27. Santa Carolina
28. San Germán
29. Santa Teodosia
30. María Santísima de la Luz
31. La Visitación
Junio
1. San Justiano
2. San Marcelino
3. Santa Coltilde
4. San Rutilo
5. Santa Valeria
6. San Norberto
7. San Pablo
8. San Maximino
9. San Feliciano
10. Pentecostes
11. Santísima Trinidad
12. San Nazario
13. San Antonio se Padua
14. San Eliseo
15. San Modesto
16. San Ciro
17. San Gregorio
18. San Marcos
19. Santa Juliana
20. San Silverio
21. San Luís Gonzaga
22. San Paulino
23. Santa Alicia
24. Natividad de San Juan Bautista
25. San Guillermo
26. San Antelmo
27. Nuestra Señora del P. Socorro
28. San Plutarco
29. San Pedro y San Pablo
30. Santa Lucina
Julio
1. San Aaron
2. San Martiniano
3. Santo Tomás Apostol
4. Nuestra Señora del Refugio
5. Santa Filomena
6. Santa María Goretti
7. San Fermín
8. San Eugenio
9. San Zenón
10. Santa Amalia
11. San Benito
12. San Nabor
13. San Enrique Emp.
14. San Camilo
15. Sam Buenaventura
16. Nuestra Señora del Carmen
17. San Alejo
18. San Federico
19. Santa Rufina
20. San Bulmaro
21. Santa Praxedes
22. Santa María Magdalena
23. Santa Brígida
24. Señora Cristina Virg
25. Santiago Apostol
26. Señora Santa Ana y San Joaquín
27. San Celestino
28. San Víctor
29. Santa Martha
30. Santa Julieta
31. San Ignacui de Loyola
Agosto
1. Santa Fe Esperanza y Caridad
2. Nuestra Señora de los Ángeles
3. San Nicodemus
4. San Eufronio
5. Nuestra Señora de las Nieves
6. La Transfiguración
7. San Cayetano
8. Santo Domingo
9. San Román
10. San Lorenzo
11. Santa Clara de Asís
12. San Fortino
13. San Ponciano
14. San Eusebio
15. La Asunción
16. San Esteban
17. San Jacinto
18. Santa Elena y Beatriz
19. San Sixto III
20. San Bernardo
21. San Pío X
22. María Reina
23. San Eleazar
24. San Bartolomé
25. San Luís Rey
26. San Zeferino
27. Santa Mónica
28. San Agustín
29. San Andrés
30. Santa Rosa de Lima
31. San Ramón N.
Setiembre
1. Nuestra Señora de los Remedios
2. San Antolin
3. San Gregorio
4. San Moises
5. Santa Obdulia
6. San Donaciano
7. Santa Régina
8. Natividad de María
9. Santa Dorotea
10. San Nicolás
11. San Jacinto
12. Dulce Nombre de María
13. San Juan Crisóstomo
14. Santa Salusita
15. Nuestra Señora de los Dolores
16. Aniversario de la Independencia
17. San Roberto B
18. Santa Sofía
19. San Jenaro
20. San Eustaquio
21. San Mateo
22. San Mauricio
23. San Lino
24. Señora de la Mercéd
25. Santa Aurelia
26. San Cosme y Damián
27. San Vicente
28. San Wenceslao
29. Miguel Gabriel y Rafael A
30. San Jerónimo
Octubre
1. Santa Teresita
2. El Santo Ángel
3. San Gerardo
4. San Francisco de Asís
5. San Plácido
6. San Bruno
7. Nuestra Señora del Rosario
8. San Sergio
9. San Dionisio
10. San Pailino
11. San Nicasio
12. Día de la Raza
13. San Eduardo
14. San Calixto
15. Santa Teresa de Jesús
16. Santa Edwiges
17. San Ignacio
18. San Lucas
19. San Pedro de A
20. San Artemio
21. San Hilario
22. Santa Salomé
23. San Pedro
24. San Antonio M Claret
25. San Gabino
26. San Evaristo
27. San Florencio
28. Simón y Judas Tadeo
29. San Narciso
30. San Marcelo
31. San Nemesio
Noviembre
1. Todos los Santos
2. Los Fieles Difuntos
3. San Martín de Porres
4. San Carlos B
5. San Zacarías
6. San Leonardo
7. San Ernesto
8. San Victorino
9. San Teodoro
10. San Andrés
11. San Martín
12. San Renalo
13. San Diego
14. San Serapio
15. San Alberto M
16. Santa Gertrudis
17. Santa Victoria
18. Santa Isabel
19. San Crispín
20. Aniversario de la Revolución
21. Virgen Niña
22. Santa Cecilia Virg
23. San Clemente
24. San Crisogono
25. Santa Catalina
26. San Silvestre
27. San Facundo
28. San Esteban
29. San Saturnino
30. San Andrés
Diciembre
1. Santa Natalia
2. Santa Bibiana
3. San Francisco Javier
4. Santa Bárbara
5. San Sabas
6. San Nicolás B
7. San Ambrosio
8. La Inmaculada Concepción
9. Santa Leocadia
10. San Melquíades
11. San Damasio
12. Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe
13. Santa Lucia Mr
14. San Juana de la Cruz
15. San Arturo
16. San Valentino
17. San Lázaro
18. San Ausencio
19. San Timoteo
20. Santo Domingo
21. San Serverino
22. San Demetrio
23. San Mardonio
24. San Delfino
25. Navidad
26. San Esteban
27. San Juan
28. Los Santos Inocentes
29. El Santo Rey David
30. San Honorio
31. ¿?
-----------------------------------------------
Friday, August 14, 2009, 4:59:08 PM, you wrote:
> Does anybody in this group knows what Saints' names were celebrated
> or listed in the religious calendar for February 23?
> I remeber seeing a message on the Religious Calendar, in this forum, a few months ago.
> Cuales Santos se celebran,de acuerdo con el calendario religioso, el dia 23 de Febrero?
> Gracias por su ayuda.
> John Gonzalez.
--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
Thank you Stuart.
We were just wondering about the Saints Days. I think some names have
changed over the years and some calenders have a different name for the
same day. It used to be a custom to name the newborn after the Saint of
that same day, or after the father, and/ or grandfather, but in modern
times all of that has changed. Now kids are named after movie stars, Rock
singers, heroes and heroines in Telenovelas, and everything else. I will
keep this calendar in my database as a reference.
Thank you for the info.
John Gonzalez
1gnzlz@verizon.net
=======================================================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart Armstrong"
To: "1gnzlz@verizon.net"
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 17:06
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Saints
Hello 1gnzlz,
Saints Day Wall Calendar. Unknown Source. Accuracy unknown...
My religious calendar from the Basilica of the National Shrine of Immaculate Conception has St. Polycarp for Feb 23rd.
Pat Silva Corbera
----- Original Message -----
From: 1gnzlz@verizon.net
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 4:59:08 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Saints
Does anybody in this group knows what Saints' names were celebrated or listed in the religious calendar for February 23?
I remeber seeing a message on the Religious Calendar, in this forum, a few months ago.
Cuales Santos se celebran,de acuerdo con el calendario religioso, el dia 23 de Febrero?
Gracias por su ayuda.
John Gonzalez.
Cada dia se celebran distintos santos, en este caso, San Policarpo, y otros
mas, puedes consultar esta pagina para cualquier duda del santoral
http://www.ewtn.com/SPANISH/Saints/Policarpo.htm
Saludos
Patty
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 6:59 PM, <1gnzlz@verizon.net> wrote:
> Does anybody in this group knows what Saints' names were celebrated or
> listed in the religious calendar for February 23?
> I remeber seeing a message on the Religious Calendar, in this forum, a few
> months ago.
>
> Cuales Santos se celebran,de acuerdo con el calendario religioso, el dia 23
> de Febrero?
>
> Gracias por su ayuda.
>
> John Gonzalez.
>
The main saint is St Peter Damian, followed by St Florentius, St Serenus, St Medrald, St Dositheus and St Lazarus
Rose
thank you for the info Rose.
John Gonzalez
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 17:15
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Saints for Feb 23
> The main saint is St Peter Damian, followed by St Florentius, St Serenus,
> St Medrald, St Dositheus and St Lazarus
>
> Rose
Mal de Ojo:
Originals not really original.
Having spent considerable time with the Pilot.FamilySearch images of
christening records of Rincón de Romos and San José de Gracia,
Aguascalientes, I have reached a few conclusions I hadn't really
expected before.
There are a lot of inconsistencies in the records - mistakes or errors
- which I had first believed were mostly due to incomplete or
inaccurate information from the parties involved: in other words, the
informants were not well informed. But the kinds of mistakes (I've
been able to correlate many multiple references to the same
individuals in several families) suggest something else: namely, that
the mistakes (and there are many of them) are copying errors.
For example, many of the mistakes are names that look very similar but
do not necessarily sound similar: like Castorena for Contreras, Chavez
for Chaires, Filomena for Florencia, Montoya for Mendoza, and many
more. Even though the handwriting is clear, it must have been copied
from handwriting that was not. I have even seen similar mistakes
within the same record, where for example the name in the margin looks
similar to but is not the same as the name in the text.
What further supports the conclusion that many errors are copying
errors is the organization of Rincón and San José baptismal records.
In any given month, the records for that month consistently begin with
records "En la parroquia de San José de Gracia ... bautizé ... en la
Yglesia de Rincón de Romos". These begin with the first of the month
and continue through the end of the month. Then, without any break,
but usually an inserted heading, the register goes back again to the
first of the month and lists records "En la parroquia de San José de
Gracia ... en la Yglesia de este lugar", that is, the chapel in San
José. These also continue to the end of the month, and then the
records for Rincón begin again for the following month.
The only way these records could occur in this order is if they were
copied from some other books or papers. That would also explain the
types of errors that are present - the scribe couldn't read the
other's (or his own) handwriting. That the original registers might be
copied and the copies become the only known "originals" is of course
no surprize, and was probably quite commonplace. Temporary records
were made and then "permanentized" into another register, or old books
became worn and tattered and were copyied afresh - for which we can be
thankful. Who knows when the records were copied - it may have been
months or more than a hundred years after the real originals were
made.
I have heard that priests sometimes carried the books with them as
they journied to various localities within their jurisdiction, and
recorded the events directly into the registers. You can imagine how
such volumes might quickly become worn and damaged. I expect too, that
some head priest might combine the records made by several assistants,
creating the official registry.
Anyway, the bottom line is that it appears that many of the bautismos
from Rincón de Romos and San José de Gracia were copies, which
explains the types of errors often present in them. Knowing this
affects the way I interpret the records. The marriage records,
however, (some of them) seem to be more consistant, and perhaps were
more original. In my mind they carry more weight or credibility than
the baptismal records, particularly as to parents's names, although
one would normally expect the reverse to be true.
Studying these records has been a revelation. I'm recognizing more and
more handwriting idiosyncrasies. The other day, my wife and I were
both puzzling over a name in 1888 that looked like Erenpas when all of
a sudden I realized it was Campos. I would never have thought of
Campos had I not known it was a common name in the area, and also the
peculiar way this particular scribe sometimes made his C's. Once I saw
the name as Campos, I could not see it as anything else. I'm sure
everyone who studies these records has had similar experiences. If
only someone would tell those people to be more consistant with their
a's and o's, so I could tell hijas from hijos ... or better yet - why
didn't they just use a typewriter!
On another topic, I am a little puzzled by the term "auciliar". Rincón
de Romos was originally an auciliar de San José de Gracia. But San
José de Gracia is also sometimes written as "la yglesia auciliar de la
parroquia de San José de Gracia" at a time when San José de Gracia was
really a parish in its own right and not an auxiliar of anything,
except perhaps of the diocesis, if you can think of it that way. I'm
wondering if the term auciliar was used rather loosely, and as such
has no particular significance.
--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
"Mal de Ojo" is an inherited belief from Europe - also known as the Evil
Eye. Essentially, it is believed that some people have the ability to
either consciously (curse) or unconsciously inflict pain upon someone based on
their thinking jealous thoughts or wishing harm upon others while looking at
them. It is believed that the concept originated in the middle east.
In Mexico, the primary ones who are deemed vulnerable are very young
children. I remember my family believing this, and would invite the person to
touch or hold the baby. I also remember that if a child had an eye
infection, it was believed they had "mal ojo".
J. Antonio Camacho
I do not believe that it is witchcraft; it seems to be more superstition than anything.
Hi everyone. I am a new member and wanted to introduce myself. My name is Claudia Reynoso.
To be brief, as brief as I can be, here are bullet items:
-my family hails from MOYAHUA, ZACATECAS (ranchos my grandfather speaks of: El Pitayo, Buenavista, Barras Amarillas, Santa Cruz, and El Aguado)
Friday, July 20, 2008
Dear Claudia--
Nice to have you as a new member. I have a friend who
does research from time to time in the area of
Moyahua. I think it is either her husband or herself
who are Reynoso. I will check with her and get back
to you.
Sincerely,
Patricia Diane Godinez
AKA Patricia Burton
San Diego, Ca.
--- Claudia_Reynoso wrote:
>
> Hi everyone. I am a new member and wanted to
> introduce myself. My name is Claudia Reynoso.
>
> To be brief, as brief as I can be, here are bullet
> items:
>
> -my family hails from MOYAHUA, ZACATECAS (ranchos my
> grandfather speaks of: El Pitayo, Buenavista, Barras
> Amarillas, Santa Cruz, and El Aguado)
> -i am bi-lingual, so you can communicate with me in
> English or Spanish
> -most of my family now resides in the USA, with
> distant reltives scattered throughout Zac., Jal.,
> and Baja Cal.
> -the oldest living REYNOSO I know if my great-aunt,
> AURELIA REYNOSO (her maiden name). she is 84 years
> old
>
> I am hoping to connect with members from Moyahua and
> surrounding areas. After reading some posts here I
> see that I am related to a couple of Reynoso members
> here! Below is my immediate line:
>
> 1. Maternal GRANDFATHER:
> Jose Maria Reynoso b. 1926 - Moyahua, Zac.
>
> 2. Serapio Reynoso b. 1900 & Martina Gonzalez b.
> @1900 - Moyahua, Zac.
>
> 3. Marcelino Reynoso b. @1868 & Hilaria Haro b.@1873
> - Moyahua, Zac.
>
> 4. Aniceto Reynoso b.1826 & Nemesia Rodrigues b.
> 1824
>
> 5. Toribio Reynoso b. @1787 & Norberta Romero b.
> @1795
>
> 6. Silberio Reynoso b. @1764 & Nasaria Carrillo b.
> @1767
>
> I have about 200 names in my database, and I am
> looking forward to finding more. I'm also always
> happy to share information with everyone and I will
> soon post some interesting files for everyone to
> peruse.
>
> Hasta pronto,
Welcome Claudia! Definitely prima :-)
All the Reynosos in Moyahua, Juchipila and Amoxochitl are related, all come from 2 brothers. Am sure Ronnie, otro primo :-), can elaborate.
Bienvenida.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
Claudia,
My grandfather Francisco Reynoso was born in Buena Vista, Moyahua, Zacatecas, Mexico. His father owned Buena Vista, it then went to my grandfather, then my mother. They are all deceased now. My grandfather is the son of Jose Gavino Reynoso and Lorenza de Jesus Lopez. Gavino is the son of Jose Gregorio and Maria Merced Ponce. His father is Toribio Reynoso and his mom is Maria Norberta Romero. Toribio's father is Silverio Reynoso and his mother is Maria Gregoria Carrillo.
I do not have any additional information on Silverio. Have been searching but nothing yet. I do know that there are other records that are dated from 1814 to 1600 for Moyahua. I do not think these have been microfilmed by the LDS Church. I got a glimpse of these records once on "Somos Primos" several years ago. I have been trying to locate them since but have not found them. I even contacted "Somos Primos" but got no where.
I know if we could locate these records that we would be able to extend our lines.
Have not had a lot of time to work on this. I have had to spend time with my father who was very ill and who passed away May 10th 2008. I still am busy trying to settle everything.
Good Luck in your search.
Irene
----- Original Message ----
From: Claudia_Reynoso
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 2:03:23 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] REYNOSO - New member introduction
Hi everyone. I am a new member and wanted to introduce myself. My name is Claudia Reynoso.
To be brief, as brief as I can be, here are bullet items:
-my family hails from MOYAHUA, ZACATECAS (ranchos my grandfather speaks of: El Pitayo, Buenavista, Barras Amarillas, Santa Cruz, and El Aguado)
-i am bi-lingual, so you can communicate with me in English or Spanish
-most of my family now resides in the USA, with distant reltives scattered throughout Zac., Jal., and Baja Cal.
-the oldest living REYNOSO I know if my great-aunt, AURELIA REYNOSO (her maiden name). she is 84 years old
I am hoping to connect with members from Moyahua and surrounding areas. After reading some posts here I see that I am related to a couple of Reynoso members here! Below is my immediate line:
1. Maternal GRANDFATHER:
Jose Maria Reynoso b. 1926 - Moyahua, Zac.
2. Serapio Reynoso b. 1900 & Martina Gonzalez b. @1900 - Moyahua, Zac.
3. Marcelino Reynoso b. @1868 & Hilaria Haro b.@1873 - Moyahua, Zac.
4. Aniceto Reynoso b.1826 & Nemesia Rodrigues b. 1824
5. Toribio Reynoso b. @1787 & Norberta Romero b. @1795
6. Silberio Reynoso b. @1764 & Nasaria Carrillo b. @1767
I have about 200 names in my database, and I am looking forward to finding more. I'm also always happy to share information with everyone and I will soon post some interesting files for everyone to peruse.
Hasta pronto,
Hello everyone maybe you can help me, I have a few lose ends on the Romo de Vivar line.
I 'm looking for the parents of the following.
Isabel Romo de Vivar b-abt 1635 m- Juan Tiscareño
Jose Romo de Vivar b-abt 1680 m Maria Jimenez de Hermosillo
Juan Jose Romo de Vivar b-abt 1730 m Maria Gertrudis Gonzalez
Baltazar Romo de Vivar b-abt 1672 m Catharina Muñoz de la Barba
Isabel's father was Captain Juan Romo de Vivar and María de Rángel while Juan's parents were Luis Tiscareño and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza, daughter of the famous Lope Ruiz de Esparza, -Daniel
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Thanks Irene for the note. I searched on somosprimos and found this below, is it what you are talking about???
635. MARIANA15 DE PADILLA-DAVILA-Y-MEDINA (SANCHO15 DE PADILLA-DAVILA, MARIANA14 DE FIGUEROA, MARIANA13 BANUELOS, DIEGO12 TREMINO-DE-VELASCO, BERNARDINO11 FERNANDEZ-DE-VELASCO, FRANCISCO10, BEATRIZ9 MANRIQUE-DE-LARA-Y-CASTILLA, PEDRO8 MANRIQUE-DE-LARA, JUANA7 DE MENDOZA, PEDRO6 GONZALEZ-DE-MENDOZA, GONZALO5 HURTADO-DE-MENDOZA, DIEGO4, DIEGO3, DIEGO2 LOPEZ-DE-MENDOZA, LOPO1 GONZALEZ-DE-MENDOZA) She married FRANCISCO DE REYNOSO. He was born in Peru.
Children of MARIANA DE PADILLA-DAVILA-Y-MEDINA and FRANCISCO DE REYNOSO are:
i. FRANCISCO16 REYNOSO-PADILLA, b. Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico; m. JOSEFA DE RENTERIA-Y-VALDEZ.
ii. JUAN REYNOSO-PADILLA, b. 1632, Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.
iii. DIEGO REYNOSO-PADILLA, b. 05 Jan 1633/34, Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico; m. (1) MARIA LOPEZ-DE-LARA-Y-PADILLA; m. (2) MARGARITA RENTERIA.
iv. JOSEPH REYNOSO-PADILLA, b. 12 Feb 1637/38, Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico; m. MARIA DE OROZCO-Y-VALDEZ.
v. ANTONIO REYNOSO-PADILLA, b. 26 May 1639, Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.
Daniel, can you give me more details on Romo de Vivar, I do have the Tiscareño line. I have a Diego Romo de Vivar(teniente Governador Capitan) married to Maria Rangel Peguero source Geneologia de Nochistlan page 447--so far 3 kids Juan(Capitan) ,Geronimo, Pedro(Capitan) is this the same. What is your source
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Mendez
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo de Vivar
Isabel's father was Captain Juan Romo de Vivar and María de Rángel while Juan's parents were Luis Tiscareño and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza, daughter of the famous Lope Ruiz de Esparza, -Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
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Miggy,
The parents of Isabel Romo de Vivar were Diego Romo de Vivar and Maria Rangel de Viezma y Rosales, both from Rielves, Toledo, Reinos de Castilla (Spain). Isabel was buried in Aguascalientes on 15 Jun 1692. In her final will and testament, filed with D. Antonio Perez de Velasco, Escribano Publico, she declared that she had not received a dowry from her parents when she married Juan Tiscareño, but that she had received part of a house and orchard when her father Capt. Diego Romo de Vivar died. This is not the only source that mentions her parents. Remember that three children of Diego Romo de Vivar and Maria Rangel married into the Tiscareño-Ruiz de Esparza family:
1) Capt. Juan Romo de Vivar, who married Maria Tiscareño (aka Maria Gabai) on 05 May 1658 (they are my ancestors)
2) Capt. Pedro Romo de Vivar, who married Lorenza Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza) also on 05 May 1658.
3) Isabel Romo de Vivar Rangel, who married Capt. Juan Tiscareño c. 1656.
Brothers Juan and Pedro Romo de Vivar married sisters Maria and Lorenza Tiscareño in a double ceremony at Luis Tiscareño's Hacienda de San Bartholomew, Aguascalientes. Godparents at Juan Romo de Vivar and Maria Tiscareño's wedding were his sister Isabel Romo de Vivar and her husband Juan Tiscareño, Maria's brother. Godparents at the wedding of Pedro Romo de Vivar and Lorenza Tiscareño were Capt. Diego Romo de Vivar and his wife Maria Rangel. The church record reads as follows:
"El 5 de mayo de 1658 en la capilla de Luys Tiscareño casé y velé a Juan Romo de Vivar con María de Tiscareño, y a Pedro Romo de Vivar con Lorenza de Esparza [Lorenza de Tiscareño] siendo padrinos de Juan Romo, Juan de Tiscareño y Isabel Romo su muger, y de Pedro Romo el Capitán Diego Romo de Vivar y María Rangel su muger. Fueron testigos el sargento Don Alonso Ramírez de Prado, Alcalde Mayor de esta villa, y Don Lorenzo Ramírez de Prado."
As you can see, this was a military family. Maria Rangel died one year later and was buried on 19 Jun 1659 in Aguascalientes. Diego Romo de Vivar probably returned to San Jose del Parral, Nueva Viscaya (Chihuahua) where he owned land. His death was not recorded in Aguascalientes.
Balthazar Romo de Vivar, who married to Catharina Muñoz de la Barba, was the son of Pedro Romo de Vivar and Lorenza Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza) mentioned above.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Bill Figueroa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Miggy GUTIERREZ"
To:
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo de Vivar
Hello everyone maybe you can help me, I have a few lose ends on the Romo de
Vivar line.
I 'm looking for the parents of the following.
Isabel Romo de Vivar b-abt 1635 m- Juan Tiscareño
Jose Romo de Vivar b-abt 1680 m Maria Jimenez de Hermosillo
Juan Jose Romo de Vivar b-abt 1730 m Maria Gertrudis Gonzalez
Baltazar Romo de Vivar b-abt 1672 m Catharina Muñoz de la Barba
Bill, thank you. I am now confused on the Ruiz de Esparza twist.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Figueroa
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo de Vivar
Miggy,
The parents of Isabel Romo de Vivar were Diego Romo de Vivar and Maria Rangel de Viezma y Rosales, both from Rielves, Toledo, Reinos de Castilla (Spain). Isabel was buried in Aguascalientes on 15 Jun 1692. In her final will and testament, filed with D. Antonio Perez de Velasco, Escribano Publico, she declared that she had not received a dowry from her parents when she married Juan Tiscareño, but that she had received part of a house and orchard when her father Capt. Diego Romo de Vivar died. This is not the only source that mentions her parents. Remember that three children of Diego Romo de Vivar and Maria Rangel married into the Tiscareño-Ruiz de Esparza family:
1) Capt. Juan Romo de Vivar, who married Maria Tiscareño (aka Maria Gabai) on 05 May 1658 (they are my ancestors)
2) Capt. Pedro Romo de Vivar, who married Lorenza Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza) also on 05 May 1658.
3) Isabel Romo de Vivar Rangel, who married Capt. Juan Tiscareño c. 1656.
Brothers Juan and Pedro Romo de Vivar married sisters Maria and Lorenza Tiscareño in a double ceremony at Luis Tiscareño's Hacienda de San Bartholomew, Aguascalientes. Godparents at Juan Romo de Vivar and Maria Tiscareño's wedding were his sister Isabel Romo de Vivar and her husband Juan Tiscareño, Maria's brother. Godparents at the wedding of Pedro Romo de Vivar and Lorenza Tiscareño were Capt. Diego Romo de Vivar and his wife Maria Rangel. The church record reads as follows:
"El 5 de mayo de 1658 en la capilla de Luys Tiscareño casé y velé a Juan Romo de Vivar con María de Tiscareño, y a Pedro Romo de Vivar con Lorenza de Esparza [Lorenza de Tiscareño] siendo padrinos de Juan Romo, Juan de Tiscareño y Isabel Romo su muger, y de Pedro Romo el Capitán Diego Romo de Vivar y María Rangel su muger. Fueron testigos el sargento Don Alonso Ramírez de Prado, Alcalde Mayor de esta villa, y Don Lorenzo Ramírez de Prado."
As you can see, this was a military family. Maria Rangel died one year later and was buried on 19 Jun 1659 in Aguascalientes. Diego Romo de Vivar probably returned to San Jose del Parral, Nueva Viscaya (Chihuahua) where he owned land. His death was not recorded in Aguascalientes.
Balthazar Romo de Vivar, who married to Catharina Muñoz de la Barba, was the son of Pedro Romo de Vivar and Lorenza Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza) mentioned above.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Bill Figueroa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Miggy GUTIERREZ" >
To: >
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo de Vivar
Hello everyone maybe you can help me, I have a few lose ends on the Romo de
Vivar line.
I 'm looking for the parents of the following.
Isabel Romo de Vivar b-abt 1635 m- Juan Tiscareño
Jose Romo de Vivar b-abt 1680 m Maria Jimenez de Hermosillo
Juan Jose Romo de Vivar b-abt 1730 m Maria Gertrudis Gonzalez
Baltazar Romo de Vivar b-abt 1672 m Catharina Muñoz de la Barba
Hello Bill,
Do you have Lorenza Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza) line.
Are there two Lorenzas?
I arrived to Lorenza threw Elvira Tiscareno (1627 Aguas.), who was the daughter of Cap. Luis Tiscareno de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza (married May 16, 1623 Aguas.) Is she the same person and its just another marriage?
Is her mother another Lorenza that I was missing and I jumped a generation by accident?
Sofia
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Hello Sofía,
Below you will find some information about the first Tiscareño-Ruiz de
Esparza family in Aguascalientes. Lorenza Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Ruiz de
Esparza) was baptized 26 Sep 1636 at Parroquia de la Asunción in
Aguascalientes. She was the daughter of Luis Tiscareño de Molina and
Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza. Lorenza Tiscareño married Pedro Romo de Vivar 05
May 1658 at the Chapel of Luis Tiscareño's Hacienda de San Bartholome in
Aguascalientes (see previous message to Miggy Gutierrez).
Her mother Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza was the daughter of Lope Ruiz de Esparza
and Francisca Gabai de Moctezuma. Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz
de Esparza had eleven children:
1. Francisca Tiscareño (aka Francisca Gabai like her maternal grandmother)
b.1625. She married Joseph Delgado.
2. Elvira Tiscareño (aka Elvira Marquez like her paternal grandmother) b.
1627. She married Juan Lopez de Nava.
3. Christobal Tiscareño b. abt. 1629 (baptismal records missing 1629-1633).
He married Gertrudis Rodriguez de Chavarria (aka Gertrudis de Retamosa).
4. Juan Tiscareño b. abt. 1631 (baptismal record missing). He married 1)
Isabel Romo de Vivar and 2) Juana de Orosco y Santa Cruz. He also had an
illegitimate son Francisco Tiscareño before he married Isabel.
5) Luisa Tiscareño b. abt. 1632 (baptismal record missing). She married
Andres Muñoz de Nava.
6) Maria Tiscareño b. 1634 (aka Maria Gabai in honor of her grandaunt
Maria Gabai de Moctezuma.) She married Juan Romo de Vivar. Juan and Maria
are my ancestors.
7) Lorenza Tiscareño b. 1636 (aka Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza) who married
Pedro Romo de Vivar.
8) Beatriz Tiscareño b. 1639 who married Balthazar Diaz de Anda Altamirano.
9) Margarita Tiscareño b. 1642 who married Geronimo Romo de Vivar (nephew
of Juan, Pedro and Isabel Romo de Vivar).
10) Juana Tiscareño b. 1644 who died at 12 years of age in 1656.
11) Antonio Tiscareño b. 1648. He is not mentioned in other records, so I
assume he also died young.
For those interested in this family, there is also a Juana de Tiscareño who
married Luis de los Reyes. Juana, I believe, was an illegitimate child that
Luis Tiscareño had before he married Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza, but I still
have to prove it.
Luis and Lorenza had no other children, but their offspring multiplied at a
furious pace. By the end of the 17th century there were hundreds of
Tiscareños in Aguascalientes and neighboring areas, and by the end of the
18th century there were in the thousands over the entire region. The same
can be said about the Ruiz de Esparza and Romo de Vivar. Very prolific
families.
I hope this info. proves helpful to you. Let me know if you have any
questions.
Bill Figueroa
----- Original Message -----
From: "sophia"
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo de Vivar
Hello Bill,
Do you have Lorenza Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza) line.
Are there two Lorenzas?
I arrived to Lorenza threw Elvira Tiscareno (1627 Aguas.), who was the
daughter of Cap. Luis Tiscareno de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza
(married May 16, 1623 Aguas.) Is she the same person and its just another
marriage?
Is her mother another Lorenza that I was missing and I jumped a generation
by accident?
Sofia
Thank you Bill!
I was confusing her with her mother.
Sofia
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[Apologies if you get this twice as I also posted to the research mailing
list]
Hi everyone,
I am a new member of Nuestros Ranchos so I wanted to introduce myself. So
far I've loved the conversations that I've witnessed here. It's great to
have this community!
I am primarily researching the pueblos of Juchitlan and Tecolotlan, Jalisco,
as well as the rancho of San Gaspar, in the municipio de Union de Tula. My
family is from Juchitlan, but my Larios and Ramirez lines go back many times
over in San Gaspar, where there is a concentration of us. My Preciado line
goes back to Tecolotlan, where there are many of us. Other surnames I am
researching include Lomeli, Llamas, Gonzalez, Lepe, and Medina. Please see
my family file to see what I have so far:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18215
So far this was information I was able to gather from my grandparents before
they passed and other family members and documents. I have also done some
looking on FamilySearch.org, and found some promising information, but have
yet to incorporate this into the family file I currently have up.
If anyone is interested in sharing information, please let me know! I'd love
to meet some new primos (as if I don't have enough, LOL!)
I am searching for any members of the Martinez/Martin and Pena family who lived in Encarncaion de Diaz, Jalisco.
Espero puedas leer el elpañol.
Yo vivo en Encarnacion de Diaz, Conozco a varias personas de apellido Martinez y Martin; algunos de los martin su ascendencia es Martin de campo, pero de la mayoria de los Martin y los Martinez se bien que como bien dicen los compañeros, descienden de ancestros de apellido Martin(ez)de Sotomayor, establecidos mayormente hacia el area de La Soledad, Los Lomelines y Los Sauces.
Yo personalemente desciendo de Manuel Martin de Sotomayor y Magaña, Casado en Jalostotitlán el 6 de mayo de 1748 con Maria Teresa Lozano, quienes tuvieron por hijos a :
1.-Maria Gertrudis (de quien desciendo). Casada con Pedro Joseph Zermeño y Romo de Vivar.
2.-Jose Felipe de Santiago
3.-Jose Antonio Tiburcio
4.-Jose Antonio Abad
5.-Maria Guadalupe
6.-Maria Benita de la Cruz.
Ya buscaste en la pagina www.familysearch.org?
Yo puedo buscar estos datos y mas sobre tu linea. Tienes tu lina a Andres Martin de Ssotoayor?
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: migueltran@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 06:19:31 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Martinez = Pena
>
> Espero puedas leer el elpañol.
>
> Yo vivo en Encarnacion de Diaz, Conozco a varias personas de apellido Martinez y Martin; algunos de los martin su ascendencia es Martin de campo, pero de la mayoria de los Martin y los Martinez se bien que como bien dicen los compañeros, descienden de ancestros de apellido Martin(ez)de Sotomayor, establecidos mayormente hacia el area de La Soledad, Los Lomelines y Los Sauces.
>
> Yo personalemente desciendo de Manuel Martin de Sotomayor y Magaña, Casado en Jalostotitlán el 6 de mayo de 1748 con Maria Teresa Lozano, quienes tuvieron por hijos a :
>
> 1.-Maria Gertrudis (de quien desciendo). Casada con Pedro Joseph Zermeño y Romo de Vivar.
> 2.-Jose Felipe de Santiago
> 3.-Jose Antonio Tiburcio
> 4.-Jose Antonio Abad
> 5.-Maria Guadalupe
> 6.-Maria Benita de la Cruz.
>
> Ya buscaste en la pagina www.familysearch.org?
Tienes mas sobre el origin de Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor? No se quien son sus padres?
Solo tengo informacion de Petronia de Magana, si se que ellos se casaron 30 nov 1723 en Jalos.
Si tengo tu linea en mi base de datos, tengo a Maria Gertrudis casada con Pedro Jose Zermeno.
Solo logre encontrar tres hijos: Maria Lugarda de Jesus, Juan Joseph de los Dolores y Juan Joseph
Zenon Vasquez y Zermeno.
-Daniel
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Tengo un Andres Martin de Sotomayor Y López de la Cerda,hijo de Nicolas Martin y Simona Lopez casaso el 27 de octubre de 1736 en Aguascalientes con Lucia Chavez y sepultado el 29 de oct de 1736 En la misma ciudad, aunque no es mi ancestro, segun los datos que hasta ahora tengo.
Acerca de Ignacio Martín de Sotomayor no tengo ningún otro dato.
De Pedro y Gertrudis tengo, ademas de los 3 que mencionas, a Pedro, bautizado el 11 de agosto 1796 en Encarnación.
A proposito de los dos Juan Jose(Zenon y Dolores)hijos de Pedro Zermeño Y Gertrudis Martin, ¿A cual tienes tú como Esposo de Maria Teodosia Viramontes Jaime?
GRACIAS
Miguel Beltran
Tengo un Ignacio hermano deAndre, pero no se si es el mismo Ignacio.Si es el mismo periodo de tiempo. Voy verificar esto.
-Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
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Some used soto.
------Original Message------
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: Patty Hoyos
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Martinez = Pena
Sent: Dec 1, 2009 6:59 PM
If you have seen Martines/Martin used interchangeably I suspect it might be the Martinez de Sotomayor family.
Female lines (from what I have seen so far) used Martin de Sotomayor while the direct males used Martinez
de sotomayor.
-Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
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iT APPEARS WE ARE DEALING WITH THE SAME FAMILY THEN. THE ORIGINAL LAST NAME
WAS MARTINEZ DE SOTOMAYOR, WHO SETTLED IN AGUASCALIENTES IN THE 1600s.
Let me know when your film arrives so you can send over the new info, the further
you trace your line, usually it becomes easier to connect to the main patriarchs
of Los Altos.
-Daniel
Im also a descendant of the Martinez de Sotomayor family.
Daniel Mendez (I am a Camino twice)
Ampelia Camino-Soto
Antonio Camino-Soto 1935 Carolina Garcia 1940 (primos segundos)
Antonio Camino-Soto 1909 Sara Camino-Soto 1918 (primos hermanos)
Celso Camino-Soto 1883 Eugenio Camino-Soto 1886 (hermanos)
Mariano de Camino 1853
Maria de los Dolores Martinez de Sotomayor 1827
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If you have seen Martines/Martin used interchangeably I suspect it might be the Martinez de Sotomayor family.
Female lines (from what I have seen so far) used Martin de Sotomayor while the direct males used Martinez
de sotomayor.
-Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Get gifts for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.
http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=xbox+games&scope=cashback&form=MS…
I am looking for family members of Pedro Covarrubias and Tomasa Hernandez from Cartajena Jalisco His son Evaristo Covarrubias and any other brothers or sisters to this family
This is an interesting twist that takes you to a new place (Nayarit). You will have to order the relevant films from Nayarit to get further back since neither of these extractions appears to have the names of the parents of Fernando Covarrubias or Micaela Avila. I would suspect from the fact that they ended up in Cartagenas, Totatiche which is the ancestral home of the Covarrubias (owned by a Pedro de Covarrubias back in the early 1600s) that this Fernando and Pedro Covarrubias are descended from the same bunch, made their way to Nayarit and then back, but we will need to find the paper trail to prove it.
PEDRO COVARRUBIAS Pedigree
Christening: 1854 El Sagrario, Tepic, Nayarit, Mexico
Parents:
Father: FERNANDO COVARRUBIAS
Mother: MICAELA AVILA
Source Information: Batch No. C026907
FERNANDO COBARRUVIAS
Marriages:
Spouse: MICAELA ABILA Family
Marriage: 01 MAY 1854 San Pedro, San Pedro Lagunillas, Nayarit, Mexico
Source Information: Batch No.: M602454 Film No. 0707072
Marina:
Welcome to the group. I do not see a genealogy posted for you and without dates and place names, names are not very useful in genealogy... particularly names as common as Pedro Covarrubias.
I think I have found your great-grandparents' marriage record. One piece of advice: you should begin compiling this information in a genealogy database program such as PAF or Legacy and source and annotate every addition you make to your database very well, with dates, placenames, alternative spellings for names, etc. otherwise you will end up getting lost in your search.
This is from familysearch.org.
Tomasa HERNANDES
Age At Marriage: 17, Birth: <1861>
Parents:
Father: Dionisio HERNANDEZ
Mother: Cesilia HUISAR
Marriage: 09 Oct 1878 Place: Totatiche, Jalisco, Mexico
Spouse: Pedro COVARRUVIAS
Age At Marriage: 25, Birth: <1853>
Parents:
Father: Fernando COVARRUVIAS
Mother: Micaela DE AVILA
Source Information: Batch Number: M617073, Film or Fiche Number: 1164033
Emilie,
>From what I can recall studying African History in Latin America, it is
widely believed that most of the Africans brought into Central and South
America were initially from Y
The Flores/Bermeo connection that were Tlaxcalans were brought into
Nadadores, Coahuila to pacify existing nomadic tribes in Coahuila area by the
Spaniards who were interested in securing/settlement of its the northern
frontier.
I have no records that indicate they moved from Zacatecas to Coahuila, and
as such did not make that connection or assumption. It would have been
nice to have found that type of evidence.
Esperanza
Chicagoland area
Hello -
Can you please expand on the comment that you made about the FLORES surname being brought into Zacatecas?
Thank you,
Rudy
--- On Thu, 12/3/09, latina1955@aol.com wrote:
From: latina1955@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Provenance of Indigenous Peoples in Select Cities of N
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, December 3, 2009, 3:42 PM
Emilie,
>From what I can recall studying African History in Latin America, it is
widely believed that most of the Africans brought into Central and South
America were initially from Yoruba, which was then a nation east of what is now
known as Benin, however it is difficult to tell, as tribal people were
often separated, as the slave holders didn't want them to be able to
communicate with each other in their native tongue. I seem to recall an isolated
community in Guerrero was discovered where linguists were able to trace their
language to Yoruba. Because of these practices, it is difficult for many
African Americans to trace their ancestry to a specific tribe in Africa. I
do know however that in the latter years, because of a loop hole in Spanish
law that outlawed slavery in 1829, most slaves who arrived into Latin
countries no longer came from the west coast, they came from Angola.
I am one of the few people that has indeed found proof that I have
Tlaxcaltecan roots. I found birth certificates indicating that the name Bermea
(known then as Bermeo) and Flores were brought into Nadadores, Coahuila to
pacify existing nomadic tribes, later moving to a small settlement where they
were among the first settlers. This was BIG...as I know such records are
virtually impossible to find. I have read that Tlaxcalans were initially
brought into Zacatecas to keep the continued insurgents of the natives
(Caxcan) down. However, I have also read that other indigenous people were
brought in various parts of Zacatecas to help with mining, including those from
Michoacan, and other slaves including "chinos" who were from the
Philippines. (Eric...you might find this interesting with your discovery of your DNA
Test and discovery)
_http://www.history.ucsb.edu/courses/tempdownload.php?attach_id=2900_
(http://www.history.ucsb.edu/courses/tempdownload.php?attach_id=2900) .
For me, history has been relayed by those in power. So it is natural that
the records uncovered would have been written and kept by the Spanish. I am
not surprised, but am fascinated to know about my Spanish ancestors,
however It is much more interesting to discover roots of those whose
voices/history were oppressed. What I would give to listen to the perspectives of
women from long ago.
Also, as relates to inter-marriages (there are quite a few of them in my
family, and not so long ago), I had been told that it was mostly to ensure
that one knew the families as "good people". It seems that they believed
that if the mom was a "floosy", so will the be the female offspring....or if
the dad was a "drunk", so will be the male offspring. At least that is what
I was told...(wink).
Esperanza
Chicagoland area
Esperanza
Chicagoland area
Does anyone know when the 1930 Census for Ojuelos De Jalisco is going to be availabe?
Maria,
I believe some Ojuelos 1930 Census have been done. I don't know if all are. I
know I am working in the 1930 Census for Guadalajara, Jalisco at the present
time. You might check the pilot program and see if anything has been updated
for Ojuelos.
-Esther Jordan Lopez
On December 2, 2009 at 4:25 PM maria.cortes@trin.net wrote:
> Does anyone know when the 1930 Census for Ojuelos De Jalisco is going to be
> availabe?
>
When I go to the pilot clik on Jalisco Ojuelos does not come up at all.
Maria Cortes (HRIS Administrator)
Trinity Industries
Maria.Cortes@trin.net
Phone 214-589-8036
Fax 214-589-8739
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of esther@enhanced.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 7:50 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alvarado-Cortez in Ojuelos De Jalisco
Maria,
I believe some Ojuelos 1930 Census have been done. I don't know if all are. I
know I am working in the 1930 Census for Guadalajara, Jalisco at the present
time. You might check the pilot program and see if anything has been updated
for Ojuelos.
-Esther Jordan Lopez
On December 2, 2009 at 4:25 PM maria.cortes@trin.net wrote:
> Does anyone know when the 1930 Census for Ojuelos De Jalisco is going to be
> availabe?
>
Maria, I think what happened is that as I was doing some 1930 census in Jalisco,
I found a family that stated they were from Ojuelos. Anyway, I don't think
Jalisco will be added to the pilot until it is complete and hopefully soon.
You'll have to be patient. :-)
Have a nice day,
-Esther
On December 3, 2009 at 1:38 PM Maria Cortes wrote:
> When I go to the pilot clik on Jalisco Ojuelos does not come up at all.
>
>
> Maria Cortes (HRIS Administrator)
> Trinity Industries
> Maria.Cortes@trin.net
> Phone 214-589-8036
> Fax 214-589-8739
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
> esther@enhanced.org
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 7:50 PM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alvarado-Cortez in Ojuelos De Jalisco
>
> Maria,
> I believe some Ojuelos 1930 Census have been done. I don't know if all are.
>I
> know I am working in the 1930 Census for Guadalajara, Jalisco at the present
> time. You might check the pilot program and see if anything has been updated
> for Ojuelos.
> -Esther Jordan Lopez
>
> On December 2, 2009 at 4:25 PM maria.cortes@trin.net wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know when the 1930 Census for Ojuelos De Jalisco is going to be
> > availabe?
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
Can you help me look for some people then since you are in the process of entering them.
Maria Cortes (HRIS Administrator)
Trinity Industries
Maria.Cortes@trin.net
Phone 214-589-8036
Fax 214-589-8739
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of esther@enhanced.org
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:09 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alvarado-Cortez in Ojuelos De Jalisco
Maria, I think what happened is that as I was doing some 1930 census in Jalisco,
I found a family that stated they were from Ojuelos. Anyway, I don't think
Jalisco will be added to the pilot until it is complete and hopefully soon.
You'll have to be patient. :-)
Have a nice day,
-Esther
On December 3, 2009 at 1:38 PM Maria Cortes wrote:
> When I go to the pilot clik on Jalisco Ojuelos does not come up at all.
>
>
> Maria Cortes (HRIS Administrator)
> Trinity Industries
> Maria.Cortes@trin.net
> Phone 214-589-8036
> Fax 214-589-8739
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
> esther@enhanced.org
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 7:50 PM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alvarado-Cortez in Ojuelos De Jalisco
>
> Maria,
> I believe some Ojuelos 1930 Census have been done. I don't know if all are.
>I
> know I am working in the 1930 Census for Guadalajara, Jalisco at the present
> time. You might check the pilot program and see if anything has been updated
> for Ojuelos.
> -Esther Jordan Lopez
>
> On December 2, 2009 at 4:25 PM maria.cortes@trin.net wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know when the 1930 Census for Ojuelos De Jalisco is going to be
> > availabe?
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
Yes, I would be happy to do that. You can email them (the names you want me to
took out for) to me at esther@enhanced.org or however you want to do it.
-Esther
On December 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM Maria Cortes wrote:
> Can you help me look for some people then since you are in the process of
> entering them.
>
>
> Maria Cortes (HRIS Administrator)
> Trinity Industries
> Maria.Cortes@trin.net
> Phone 214-589-8036
> Fax 214-589-8739
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
> esther@enhanced.org
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:09 PM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alvarado-Cortez in Ojuelos De Jalisco
>
> Maria, I think what happened is that as I was doing some 1930 census in
> Jalisco,
> I found a family that stated they were from Ojuelos. Anyway, I don't think
> Jalisco will be added to the pilot until it is complete and hopefully soon.
> You'll have to be patient. :-)
>
> Have a nice day,
>
> -Esther
>
>
> On December 3, 2009 at 1:38 PM Maria Cortes wrote:
>
> > When I go to the pilot clik on Jalisco Ojuelos does not come up at all.
> >
> >
> > Maria Cortes (HRIS Administrator)
> > Trinity Industries
> > Maria.Cortes@trin.net
> > Phone 214-589-8036
> > Fax 214-589-8739
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
> > esther@enhanced.org
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 7:50 PM
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alvarado-Cortez in Ojuelos De Jalisco
> >
> > Maria,
> > I believe some Ojuelos 1930 Census have been done. I don't know if all
> >are.
> >I
> > know I am working in the 1930 Census for Guadalajara, Jalisco at the present
> > time. You might check the pilot program and see if anything has been
> > updated
> > for Ojuelos.
> > -Esther Jordan Lopez
> >
> > On December 2, 2009 at 4:25 PM maria.cortes@trin.net wrote:
> >
> > > Does anyone know when the 1930 Census for Ojuelos De Jalisco is going to
> > > be
> > > availabe?
> > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > Notice: This email message, including any attachments, contains
> > information belonging to Trinity Industries, Inc. and its business
> > units. It has been sent solely for the use of the intended
> > recipients and may be confidential, proprietary, copyrighted, and
> > legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, please
> > advise the sender of the error and permanently delete all copies of
> > this email, including any copies that may reside in your deleted
> > box. The unauthorized review, use, disclosure, distribution, or
> > copying of this email or its contents is strictly prohibited.
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
Hello members. I am fairly new to this. I would like some help, if any of you all have any info on baptism for Jose Victoriano Camacho.
I found Juana's baptism: not sure if it helps? -Daniel Mendez
IGI Individual Record
FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
Mexico
Search Results | Download | Print
JUANA GETRUDIS CAMACHO
Pedigree
Female
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
18 JUL 1759
San Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas, Mexico
Death:
Burial:
Parents:
Father:
JUAN JOSEPH CAMACHO
Family
Mother:
MARIA OLAYA
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
Source Information:
Batch No.:
Dates:
Source Call No.:
Type:
Printout Call No.:
Type:
C601464
1756 - 1770
1095296
Film
NONE
Sheet: 00
_________________________________________________________________
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Thanks Daniel for your time and efforts. I have his mother Juana's baptism record, however, I was hoping to find who his father was. This may never be accomplished though since they always either put "no conocido" or just "hijo natural". I will have to go down his maternal line. -J. Antonio Camacho
All this talk about Royal blood and we Altenos having a preference of our cousins is interesting.
Well we also have to understand the reasons for these marriages. In most
cases here in Los Altos, many of our ancestors lived in ranches in an almost
socially isolated environment. By socially isolated I mean that they had
hardly any contact with people from other ranches. The only time they saw
other people that weren't their close family was on Sundays when the whole
family went to church and to the town market to buy their supplies for the
week, that's when what they grew and produced in-home wasn't sufficient
(this still happens today with some families here in Los Altos).
The only people they had interaction with were their family members that
lived nearby or visited them, so for them it wouldn't be awkward for cousins
to get to know and talk to each other and eventually marry and form their
own family. Alteño males were (and most sill are) very jealous people and
machos, so some preferred their daughters marry into the family then give
her away to a "stranger", not knowing what kind of family this man came
from.
Some also say that they only married into their own family to "purify their
blood". I don't know much about this topic but I would guess that families
that had this kind of mentality must have been from European descent, and
even maybe descendents of some kind of royal lineage. If anyone knows more
about this topic, it would be a good idea for them to share their knowledge
with the group.
Personally, I've noticed in my research (and I'm pretty sure most people
would corroborate this) that the children of two families that lived in the
same ranch or town, and got along well, even if they were weren't family,
they would usually marry between them and form a family bond that would last
sometimes for many generations. For example, I found that the same Rodriguez
and the Valdivia married many times since Nicolas Rodriguez de Frias y de
Iniguez married Antonia de Messa y Valdivia y de Hijar. Also, Nicolas
Rodriguez de Frías y de Torres, their grandson, married Phelipa de Santiago
de Valdivia y Martin del Campo, most likely from the same Valdivia family.
Several (I've found at least eight) of the Rodriguez grandchildren of this
last marriage married other Valdivia grandchildren. The last one was my
great grandfather Francisco Rodriguez (de Frias), who married Maria
Guadalupe Valdivia.
QUE BONITA FAMILIA! QUE BONITA FAMILIA!
RICARDO RODRIGUEZ CAMARENA
VALLE DE GUADALUPE, JALISCO
Hola Rick, I have to agree with what you say. My family is from the San Julian area and on my father's side for generations they intermarried. On my mothers side I thought were an exemption since my Grandfather was an " Indio" to his inlaws but on his paternal side my grandmother(his wife)was related .I guess there is no escaping .
As far as the purification of family ,I was never told that they married for that reason.
Ronnie Reynoso
> From: rickrod.com@gmail.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:57:13 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood and Los Altos
>
> Well we also have to understand the reasons for these marriages. In most
> cases here in Los Altos, many of our ancestors lived in ranches in an almost
> socially isolated environment. By socially isolated I mean that they had
> hardly any contact with people from other ranches. The only time they saw
> other people that weren't their close family was on Sundays when the whole
> family went to church and to the town market to buy their supplies for the
> week, that's when what they grew and produced in-home wasn't sufficient
> (this still happens today with some families here in Los Altos).
>
> The only people they had interaction with were their family members that
> lived nearby or visited them, so for them it wouldn't be awkward for cousins
> to get to know and talk to each other and eventually marry and form their
> own family. Alteño males were (and most sill are) very jealous people and
> machos, so some preferred their daughters marry into the family then give
> her away to a "stranger", not knowing what kind of family this man came
> from.
>
> Some also say that they only married into their own family to "purify their
> blood". I don't know much about this topic but I would guess that families
> that had this kind of mentality must have been from European descent, and
> even maybe descendents of some kind of royal lineage. If anyone knows more
> about this topic, it would be a good idea for them to share their knowledge
> with the group.
>
> Personally, I've noticed in my research (and I'm pretty sure most people
> would corroborate this) that the children of two families that lived in the
> same ranch or town, and got along well, even if they were weren't family,
> they would usually marry between them and form a family bond that would last
> sometimes for many generations. For example, I found that the same Rodriguez
> and the Valdivia married many times since Nicolas Rodriguez de Frias y de
> Iniguez married Antonia de Messa y Valdivia y de Hijar. Also, Nicolas
> Rodriguez de Frías y de Torres, their grandson, married Phelipa de Santiago
> de Valdivia y Martin del Campo, most likely from the same Valdivia family.
> Several (I've found at least eight) of the Rodriguez grandchildren of this
> last marriage married other Valdivia grandchildren. The last one was my
> great grandfather Francisco Rodriguez (de Frias), who married Maria
> Guadalupe Valdivia.
>
> QUE BONITA FAMILIA! QUE BONITA FAMILIA!
>
>
> RICARDO RODRIGUEZ CAMARENA
> VALLE DE GUADALUPE, JALISCO
>
Hello to all! Long time since I've added my 2 cents... I would say that it's probably about removing the 'indian' in us, no? Or venture to say, the indian features to be white, colored-eye again!?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Reynoso
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:17:53
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood and Los Altos
Hola Rick, I have to agree with what you say. My family is from the San Julian area and on my father's side for generations they intermarried. On my mothers side I thought were an exemption since my Grandfather was an " Indio" to his inlaws but on his paternal side my grandmother(his wife)was related .I guess there is no escaping .
As far as the purification of family ,I was never told that they married for that reason.
Ronnie Reynoso
> From: rickrod.com@gmail.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:57:13 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood and Los Altos
>
> Well we also have to understand the reasons for these marriages. In most
> cases here in Los Altos, many of our ancestors lived in ranches in an almost
> socially isolated environment. By socially isolated I mean that they had
> hardly any contact with people from other ranches. The only time they saw
> other people that weren't their close family was on Sundays when the whole
> family went to church and to the town market to buy their supplies for the
> week, that's when what they grew and produced in-home wasn't sufficient
> (this still happens today with some families here in Los Altos).
>
> The only people they had interaction with were their family members that
> lived nearby or visited them, so for them it wouldn't be awkward for cousins
> to get to know and talk to each other and eventually marry and form their
> own family. Alteño males were (and most sill are) very jealous people and
> machos, so some preferred their daughters marry into the family then give
> her away to a "stranger", not knowing what kind of family this man came
> from.
>
> Some also say that they only married into their own family to "purify their
> blood". I don't know much about this topic but I would guess that families
> that had this kind of mentality must have been from European descent, and
> even maybe descendents of some kind of royal lineage. If anyone knows more
> about this topic, it would be a good idea for them to share their knowledge
> with the group.
>
> Personally, I've noticed in my research (and I'm pretty sure most people
> would corroborate this) that the children of two families that lived in the
> same ranch or town, and got along well, even if they were weren't family,
> they would usually marry between them and form a family bond that would last
> sometimes for many generations. For example, I found that the same Rodriguez
> and the Valdivia married many times since Nicolas Rodriguez de Frias y de
> Iniguez married Antonia de Messa y Valdivia y de Hijar. Also, Nicolas
> Rodriguez de Frías y de Torres, their grandson, married Phelipa de Santiago
> de Valdivia y Martin del Campo, most likely from the same Valdivia family.
> Several (I've found at least eight) of the Rodriguez grandchildren of this
> last marriage married other Valdivia grandchildren. The last one was my
> great grandfather Francisco Rodriguez (de Frias), who married Maria
> Guadalupe Valdivia.
>
> QUE BONITA FAMILIA! QUE BONITA FAMILIA!
>
>
> RICARDO RODRIGUEZ CAMARENA
> VALLE DE GUADALUPE, JALISCO
>
Ill add my 2 cents to this topic too! I have read many books on Los Altos, a common
explanation could be the social aspect and children. Ill make up an example close to
something I read, One would think a peninsular would be equal to an alteno, but this
is socially false. Once the families were well established they soon began to marry off
their children all over the Meseta, which eventually spilled into Guanajuato, Zacatecas,
Aguascalintes, SLP, parts of Michoacan. In common Spanish society Peninsulars were
regarded above criollos, I would imagine in Los Altos it would be inverted. If a peninsular
say after 200 years after the formation of Los Altos so ca. 1700s or so would settle in
Los Altos, Id imagine the peninsular was not seen as equal to the old alteno society
who were descendants of the original colonists. Regardless whereas all other society
in New Spain saw the peninsular 'better'. The new peninsular that would settle in Los Altos
would probably have to marry off his children to the common alteno so they can pave
their way in "la sociedad altena".
Also there was not much mestizaje going on just quite yet I usually think of that of
a more modern thing which who knows might be still uncommon in some parts. The gene pool
was large in the early years when the marriages were taking place, within 100 years the entire
meseta was related. Which exteneded into other Neogallego provinces. I have some altenos from
Pinos, Zac marrying off kids in Tepatitlan (now you can tell the large distance marriages could
be arranged). Others in Leon, Gto marrying off to Teocaltiche etc.
Also ''la limpieza de sangre' was always a popular subject with the spaniards in colonial times
this concept was brought to the new world, where one would have to prove their "purity"
of blood (usually espanol, cristiano descendants of the Goths and Celts)
Soon the gene pool began to decrease in size. I usually mark around 1602-1702 was the time frame
where all this crazy marriage took place! By 1702, most if not all were cousins and related several
times over and over, etc.
I always picture this like the royalty of Europe, a famous example is Christian XII of Denmark
and Victoria I of Great Britain who would marry off their children and grandchildren to courts
accross Europe. Just imagine the altenos marrying off their kids to the 'courts' in Los Altos.
Courts as in cities or municipios. Where a tio could be in Lagos, a primo in San Juan and a mother
living in Leon, Gto.
Los Altos has always fascinated me, one of the rare places in Mejico wher youll find this sort of
stuff and the manner it was executed!
-Daniel Mendez
_________________________________________________________________
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I guess it's time I added my voice to the chorus. My father's line is from San Jose De Bazarte (just outside of Tepatitlan), the Gonzalez \ Casillas line intermarried for 3 generations by my count ( at least). It is most surely a European hold over having to do with several things already mentioned here ( wealth, property, purity of blood and so on )
When I met some of my relatives from Los Altos they commented on how it was good to see that the "Old Blood" had survived in some of us.
Robert Gonzalez~
"Old Blood" had survived in some of us.
Wow, this surely sounds like a colonial speech!
I can relate to this, you grandfather always says we need to be proud of our blood.
-Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Get gifts for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.
http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=xbox+games&scope=cashback&form=MS…
Once upon a time, after bumping into some evidence that at least several of
our ancestors might have been a royal (Alonso de Estrada, illigetimate son
of King Ferdinand), I asked my now deceased
I simply agree with your position....I quoted my aunt because I understood
her bitterness, but appreciated her wisdom.
We are descendants of our ancestors, each unique with different attributes,
but most of us can't claim the glory, shame, or otherwise that our
ancestors no doubt partook. We can only take responsibility for who we are
today. My aunt's words resonate wisdom.
Genealogy is interesting, it is history, a discovery of mysteries, and a
hint to understanding the complexities of human nature...almost like another
form of anthropological research. You are correct, what motivates us all
to continue this quest differs.
Re: Royal blood to Ed and the story that ensues.
Like the previous thread, I am not sure how to take this. I certainly am not bitter or wise, simply fascinated in genealogy. Who are we? I personally love the psychological aspects of our quest into the past. We are all looking for something, aren't we? Not all for the same reason.
Maybe the author of the comment was referring to another Ed. If so, I apologize for assuming that the story was offered to me.
Saludos,
Ed Serros, MD
Hola a todos. Me encuentro buscando personas con el apellido Martinez en el estado de Zacatecas.
Pedro:
Por favor danos mas datos sobre las personas exactas que estas buscando... nombres, fechas, familiares, etc.
Para hacer investigacion seria no se puede simplemente buscar "un apellido" ya que estos cambiaban a lo largo del tiempo y hay algunos que eran demasiados comunes para poder seguir un linaje atraves de solamente el apellido.
Conoces los siguintes dos libros?
Historia de Juanchorrey y Tepetongo,
Zacatecas
Robles
de la Torre, José León
Filigranas, fundaciones y genealogias, Tepetongo,
Zacs.
Robles
de la Torre, José León
Puede ser que tengan informacion de sus ancestros.
Do you know of the following two books?
Historia de Juanchorrey y Tepetongo,
Zacatecas
Robles
de la Torre, José León
Filigranas, fundaciones y genealogias, Tepetongo,
Zacs.
Robles
de la Torre, José León
It might be that they have information about your two ancestors.
Robles de la Torre, J. L. (2008). *Historia de Juanchorrey y Tepetongo,
Zacatecas*. Torreón, Coah., México: [s.n.].
Robles de la Torre, J. L. (1999). *Filigranas, fundaciones y genealogías,
Tepetongo, Zacs*. Torreón, Coah: Editorial del Norte Mexicano.
Saludos desde lago Salado,
Greetings from Salt Lake City,
Eduardo H Seoane
This is giving me difficulty reading the abuelos Maternos names.
Iglesia San Jose, Calvillo, Ags. May 18 1884
Baptism book 27 , page no. 103 entry no 417, image no. 116 of 127.
My apologies for posting a bad transcription. I never would have read the first letter as an S. Even in the following baptism the S for Savino and Severa are different. Also this is the first time to learn of the name Sostenes.
Since I had transcribed Sostenes incorrectly I went back and looked at Adrian better and compared the A's and M's within the same and against other baptisms from the same priest. I also did a pilot search and the name Aldrico comes up a couple of times - http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#searchType=standa… The two results for Ags. with Aldrico as the father are most likely the siblings of Maria Lopes. Florencio's father is definitely Aldrico 23 June 1857 Image 131 Entry 336.
Armando
I did a search for Aldrico Lopes in México and came up with three possible
siblings all born in Calvillo.
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html You need to do it on
the advanced search function.
David Serna I do agree with you all that Aldrico is the name used. but since in the marriage of Aldrico Lopez & Sostenes Duran, marriage book 6, page no. 7 , entry no. 125, image 9 of 95,and the Informacion Matrimonial August 12, 1854. image 153 & 154 of 257. He is called Enrico clearly . So.. either enrico/aldrico or aldrico/enrico one is a variation or corruption of the other.Its hard to say which. Also the name came up in a google search . An unusual name.
I didn't think it was so unusual since a lot of names and toponyms in Spanish come from German via Visigothic Spain. It turns out it may have been because of a saint. His birth name may have been pretty long because now that I look at another birth record from the link I had posted yesterday his name shows up as Andres and all the other names match. - http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage;c=1…
The origin of Aldric
ALDRIC
Gender: Masculine
Usage: French, Ancient Germanic
From a Germanic name, derived from the elements ald "old" and ric "ruler, power". Saint Aldric was a 9th-century bishop of Le Mans.
http://www.behindthename.com/name/aldric
Armando
Yeah...I had found the marriage for "enrico" and Sostenes and posted it here.
Its possible its a messy A but at least we have the right couple.
I chucked at the fact Sostenes was my relative!
If you need any other help David, let me know.
I barely finished Calvillo Marriages 1813-1839!
I am so happy! I just took note of my relatives so I have aorund 60 marriages noted and
have a copy of each in hand. Im starting on the next one.
Daniel Mendez
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock star.
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=P…
David Serna What shall I enter his name as now ??
Accidental Discovery of New Variation ! NOW HE IS ANDRES NOT ALDRICO/ENRICO ?????
Iglesia San Jose, Calvillo, Ags. Bautismos. 1855-1858. page No. 2 , the entry 379, image 13 of 203.
En la Parroqia ****** 11 de Septiembre 1855 *** 3 dias nacida en Jaltiches *** Geronima hija lejitima de Andres Lopez y Sostenes Duran. Linea Paterna Jose Ma. y Benita Cervantes y por Materna Anastacio Duran y Florencia Esparza. Padrinos Rosalio Perezchica y Refugio Garcia.
Hello Mooskies (I still don't know who I'm talking to)
I've had similar situations where the first name has changed slightly from
record to record. I find that the name on the baptismal record of the
individual is the most accurate, then the marriage record, the last being
the baptismal record of his/her child. However, I do make a note of all
names associated with that individual and you need to make sure that you are
in fact dealing with the same individual. I had a situation where I found
two marriage records with identical names for both bride and groom - within
5 years of each other - roughly the same area ..... it was only by looking
at the details of the marriage record that I was able to figure out which
one belonged in my tree.
I hope this helps - happy hunting
-Angelina-
I had mentioned that in my post on the 25th and I had posted that all of the other names matched, meaning wife and grandparents. I also said his birth name may have been pretty long because of that. I have seen people with up to five names, not including their surnames, on their birth record.
Armando
Well...I suppose Enrico is a nickname for Aldrico which is German-Spanish origin.
Just keep both Andres Aldrico, Im sort of iffy too, Sostenes is my relative. -Daniel Camino
I found this child.
IGI Individual Record
FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
Mexico
Search Results | Download | Print
LORENSO LOPEZ DURAN
Pedigree
Male
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
16 AUG 1868
San Jose, Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Death:
Burial:
Parents:
Father:
ALDRICO LOPEZ
Family
Mother:
SOSTENES DURAN
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
Source Information:
Batch No.:
Dates:
Source Call No.:
Type:
Printout Call No.:
Type:
C604351
1863 - 1870
0635770
Film
NONE
Sheet: 00
_________________________________________________________________
Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place.
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Okay Im a mjaor genealogist when it comes to Calvillo.
It is Sostenes Duran. The grandpa is more diffucult I found their marriage possibly. Yes, I just look up their
marriage it looks the same name, it looks like Enrico?. It turns out Sostenes is my relative, Wowo! Thanks It helps both of us.
"En Calvillo.... 16 de nov. de 1854...a Enrico Lopez, hijo natural de Jose Maria Lopez y ???? Cervantes
....Ma. Sostenes Duran hija de Anastasio de Duran y Florentina (Ruiz de) Esparza. The bride's parents
are my ancestors. -Daniel (hope this helps). The good thing abut this record it says my ancestors were
dead already. So this trims the search party.
IGI Individual Record
FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
Mexico
Search Results | Download | Print
MARIA SOSTENES DURAN
Pedigree
Female
Family
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
Marriages:
Spouse:
ENRICO LOPEZ
Family
Marriage:
16 NOV 1854
San Jose, Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.
Source Information:
Batch No.:
Dates:
Source Call No.:
Type:
Printout Call No.:
Type:
M604355
1854 - 1874
0635888
Film
NONE
Sheet: 00
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
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I found the document at http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#c=1502404;s=waypo… then I saved it to the hard drive then I opened it in Picasa then I cropped it so the jpg would only have María Luz's info. Then I maximized it with Picasa Photo Viewer and it kind of looked something like Madriano and Josfina Duran. Then I challenged my wife to decipher it. We agreed he tried to write Adriano and Justina Duran.
Armando
Mooskies(sorry, I didn't see any other name),
It looks like the Abuelos Maternos are Adrian y Sostenes Duran
-Angelina-
While resarching my line I have come to an ancester GGGGG FLORENCIO Y ANTONIA RUIS. Their son GABRIEL SERNA (died between 1832 - 1853 prosibly in Calvillo or Villa del Refugio,ZAC.
Hello,
It's there someone who has the film M600825 from Fresnillo?
I need to get a look up on the marriage of Juan de la Rosa + Narcisa Acosta. Marriage date 28/10/1872.
Another question,
It seems Fresnillo has the parroquia for the area, La Purificación.
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/printing/titledetail…
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/printing/titledetail…
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#searchType=standa…
Armando
I would also like to know how to get a copy of this book.
Sheila Prader
You wrote:
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:47:33 -0700 (PDT)
> From: ruben casillas moreno
Muy buenas ruben,
Estoy interesado en el libro de Mariano Gonzalez Leal, especificamente en el capitulo que se refiere al Apellido Azuela. Me gustaria mucho poder contar con ello sea via pdf u otro medio.
Si me lo pudieras hacer llegar a tristan.azuela@gmail.com o en su defecto decirme donde lo puedo conseguir.
Una brazo
I would like to buy a copy. Tell me how much andwhere to send it. Thanks
------Original Message------
From: SheleeBebo@aol.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos
Sent: Oct 13, 2009 3:48 PM
I would also like to know how to get a copy of this book.
Sheila Prader
You wrote:
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:47:33 -0700 (PDT)
> From: ruben casillas moreno
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] "Mariano Gonzalez Leal Book"
> Message-ID: <324698.62841.qm@web33107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I can get Mariano Gonazalez Leals Book "Reto?os De Espa?a en la Nueva
> galicia, tomo 2, if any one want it let me know.
> Puedo conseguir el libro de Don Mariano Gonzalez Leal " Reto?os de Espa?a
> en al nueva Galicia" tomo 2,?si les interesa haganmelo saber.
>
> Ruben Casillas M.
>
Hi Rick,
I was curious if you knew when the 7 tomos were finally coming out to buy.
Thank you.
Sofia
_________________________________________________________________
Hay tantos ordenadores como personas. ¡Descubre ahora cuál eres tú!
http://www.quepceres.com/
Hi Sofia,
Last I heard they were still being edited by the publisher and more content
was also being added. I don't have a date of when they should be ready.
Maybe someone in the group has an approximate date.
Saludos,
Rick
-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Sofia T
Martinez
Enviado el: Martes, 13 de Octubre de 2009 08:00 p.m.
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos
Hi Rick,
I was curious if you knew when the 7 tomos were finally coming out to buy.
Thank you.
Sofia
_________________________________________________________________
Hay tantos ordenadores como personas. ¡Descubre ahora cuál eres tú!
http://www.quepceres.com/
Disculpen todos por cambiar d
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El mar 8-sep-09, aajay1073@yahoo.com escribió:
De:: aajay1073@yahoo.com
Asunto: [Nuestros R
I will probably suggest this a thousand times to "the group", make sure to document where you get your information from. Here is an example:
I agree. Just as important; however is entering the documentation into your family tree software database. It can be tedious, but it will save lots oF time.
------Original Message------
From: EduardoHSeoane@gmail.com
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: EduardoHSeoane@gmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Documenting Your Records
Sent: Nov 18, 2009 10:49 AM
I will probably suggest this a thousand times to "the group", make sure to document where you get your information from. Here is an example:
Repository, Record type, Individual, Date, Film No., Item No., Volume No., Page No., Record No. (all this information might not be available e.g. missing page number, missing volume number, etc.)
I am the first to admit I have not always done this and occasionally, even now I forget to do it. One thing that I have learned is that it wastes a lot of time and money not to do it.
If this does not work for you, then find something that does, it will make your research more credible and allow others to locate the records easily. Sorry I sound like a nag and will probably alienate some good people but it will help all of us to become better researchers if we source our documents and save us time.
If anyone has some good suggestions on documentation or good stories even, I would love to hear about them. Anything that improves the way I do things is much appreciated. Thank you for your time, and letting this old guy rant a little; I hope it helps.
Saludos desde Lago Salado
Eduardo H Seoane
David Serna since the films i am viewing are on the web. i dont imagine anyone will be orderng them on film. im recording the curch location date. book no. page no. , entry no. and image no. / total images in film.
Originals or Not