Nuestros Ranchos Site

Marina:

Welcome to the group. I hope this group can help you make some progress with your genealogy.

If your family is from Valparaiso, you are a bit out of luck in the sense that the films from that parrish are not yet indexed by the Church of Latter Day Saintes (LDS). The most important resource for any genealogist researching Mexico are parrish records and since the LDS has more than 90% of these filmed, that is the primary resource. What you need to do is find your closest Family History Center on http://www.familysearch.org and start ordering and reviewing films.

I can tell you that the origin of the surnames you are researching is largely the Jerez and Tlaltenango area so you will likely be able to eventually link up with others in the group that are researching the same families. The original Talamantes in the area were a pair of brothers who lived in Tlaltenango around 1630 named Jacinto and Pedro Lopez de Talamantes. Jacinto's son's seem to have taken their mother's last name (Covarrubias) so most Talamantes are probably descendants of the latter.

There is a strong nucleus of Caderas around Jerez. Miguel Caldera, and Cristobal Caldera (probably Miguel's uncle) were very prominent among the first settlers of the region. Miguel was a mestizo Captain who negotiated peace with the local Chichimecas (Zacatecas and Guachichiles) and therefore lots of indigenous people took his name.

The Miramontes in the region descend from Juan de Miramonte who immigrated from Spain in the late 1500s and settled in Tlaltenango where he married Maria de Haro y Saucedo (a descendant of Pedro de Bobadilla who was the original encomendero of Tepechitlan). They had a great number of children, some named Haro and some Miramontes and others Saucedo.

You can find information on most of these people in the GEDCOM database under the Tlaltenango families tree. However, genealogy is about working back one generation at a time so you should start by documenting all of the information you have (whether oral or from documents) in a database with detailed source information. You can download the free PAF program from the familysearch site.

I would start by ordering some films from Valparaiso and trying to find Secundino's and Pascuala's marriage which should list their places of birth and names of their parents.

Linda:

I noticed that some of the searches I was able to do before with wildcards are no longer possible as well. I think they have further restricted wildcard searches probably because it was taxing their servers too much.

I will try to play around with it over the next couple of weeks, but in the meantime, I do know that as long as you have a batch number, you can do whatever wildcards you want. That makes the Films database with batch numbers all the more important.

For any new members who are not familiar with the Films database on Nuestros Ranchos, I encourage you to try it. Many members spenta great number of hours putting it together. Instructions are on the Nuestros Ranchos User Guide that you can download from the "Reference Materials" files section.

Corrine....WELL SAID!

Peggy Delgado

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org]On Behalf Of Corrine
Ardoin
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 2:26 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Defunciones

Regarding the causes of death in records, and I have only looked in civil
registers, I think the doctors did not use the same diagnostic terminology
that we are familiar with today. For example, tuberculosis was called
"consumption," even when my mother was a child in this country. Also,
without knowledge of cancers, various diseases, etc. I imagine doctors would
have had blanket terms to cover all bases, because they did not have the
knowledge, technology, etc. to determine true causes of death. Holding up
their hands, they might have said the cause of death was "fiebre," because
the patient had a fever, even though it was a symptom of another illness the
doctor or family members had no knowledge of at that time. Another example,
what was once called "senility," is now called dementia and alzheimer's.

Just imagine those days, the family gathered around as someone died in their
bed at home, sweating from fever, etc. The eldest son, if it was his father
who died, would go to report the death, saying his father died of fever, or
whatever the common, laymen terms were for various illnesses.
"Hydrophobia," was what they called rabies, which I have found records of
children dying of that, a horrible, horrible death. One woman told me she
knew someone who died of that many, many years ago. She said they had
tied the patient to the bed, as she thrashed about in fever before she died.

As far as the life expectancy having gone up, there is some things to bear
in mind, as was mentioned. People died of things we do not die of
today, and we are also more immune to illnesses than generations ago. We
take vitamins, fertilize the soil to make our food more nutritious, etc. We
have better clothing that protects us from adverse weather conditions.
There were epidemics, because there wasn't any knowledge as to how diseases
spread, that they were contagious, how to prevent them in the first place.
Personal hygiene, proper handling of food, etc. was not taught, nor
enforced. Wooden planks for preparing a meal or chopping meat was not
looked at as bacteria-ridden. What else were they to use, anyways, formica?

I think to determine more accurately the rise in life expectancy, we must
look at what age people were when they died of natural causes, not illness,
injury, or snakebite, etc. What would the age difference be then? But, I
guess what "life expectancy" really means, is how old can a person "expect"
to live in their day? Long ago, a person could expect to live into their
forties, barring snake bite, scorpion bite, drowning, rabies, malaria,
smallpox, tuberculosis, yellow fever, gunshot, sword wound, infection,
burns, pneumonia, and on and on. Today, a person can expect to live into
their seventies, barring bee sting, pit bull attack, gang shooting, car
accident, air plane wreck, terrorist attack, bombing, cancer, suicide, and
on and on.

Corrine
Who will fall asleep one night and never wake up, when she is too old
to mind anymore!

You can create PDF files using free software called Primo PDF.

Basically, you install it and it sets up as one of your printers so whenever you want to print to PDF you choose it as your printer and you get a PDF file instead of a pile of papers. Then everyone can read your document using the free Acrobat reader software mentioned by Efrain.

http://www.primopdf.com/

try right clicking on the file once you are in his folder. then choose
the "save target link as" option and save it to your computer. Once it
is on your computer try opening it from there.

joseph

----- Original Message -----
From: Marionicia
Date: Friday, May 18, 2007 2:41 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Acces to files
To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org

>
> I had trouble trying to acces Efrain Conrique´s file. I simply
> can´t open it. What could I been doing wrong?

Saludos Leticia,

No se que problemas estes encontrando pero, si deseas, puedes contactarme
directamente a traves de mi direccion electronica en conrique1@earthlink.net

Efrain Conrique

> [Original Message]
> From: Marionicia
> To:
> Date: 5/18/2007 11:39:32 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Acces to files
>
>
I had trouble trying to acces Efrain Conrique

Alexey's genealogy submission can be found at:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/16025

joseph

ps: my computer is on the blink again I'll be out of commission for a
few days. I'm using a remote system now.

----- Original Message -----
From: AAVS
Date: Saturday, May 19, 2007 0:46 am
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction: Sosa, Oregel, Gutierrez,
Cabebezas from Tuxcueca and Valdivia Reyes From Villa Nueva
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org

>
> Hello,
>
> I want to introduce myself. My name is Alexey Valdivia and I just
> joined at this forum.
>
> I am looking for any information about these families:
>
> + From Tuxcueca, Jalisco:
>
> Sosa, Oregel, Gomez Gutierrez and Cabezas (Maternal side).
>
> In my research, I was not able to find information about my great-
> grandfathers:Ramon Gomez and Tiburcia Gutierrez Cabezas.
>
> Luis Sosa and Natividad Oregel
>
> I am looking for also any information about my grandfathers from
> Villa Nueva, Zacatecas:
>
> Brigido Valdivia Valdivia and Angela Reyes.
>
> Thanks
>

Hi Natalie,

Here is the translation you were looking for. Notice the correct spelling on the left side, which I have changed in some cases. Entesites does not seem to be a Spanish word, could it be enteritis?

- afección orgánica del corazón = ABNORMAL HEART CONDITION (NOTE: afección = desease or sickness, infección = infection)
- congestión cerebral = CEREBRAL CONGESTION
- eclampsia or eclamsia = ECLAMPSIA (seizures during pregnancy)
- entesites? (probably ENTERITIS = INFLAMATION OR INFECTION OF THE SMALL INTESTINE
- fiebre palúdica = MALARIA
- tosferina = WHOOPING COUGH
- hemoptisis = COUGHING UP BLOOD
- lepra = LEPROSY
- parto = CHILDBIRTH
- pulmonía = PNEUMONIA
- pústula maligna = MALIGNANT PUSTULE
- piquete de alacrán = SCORPION BITE

Best regards,

Bill Figueroa

I know some of them, Natalie,

(see translations in CAPS)

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: nc_coleman
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:34 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Defunciones - translation help needed

I have been reading a film of DEFUNCIONES (a document form I had never bothered to read before), and had questions on some of the causes of death, which were not listed in my small dictionary. Can anyone provide a description for any of the following terms?

- affecion organica del corazon---HEART CONDITION
- congeston cerebral ------STROKE
- eclampsia or eclamsia (I think these are the same thing; this seems to occur in newborns, mostly under 6 hours after birth); I am aware of a condition in pregnant women called pre- clampsia (not sure of spelling)
- entesites ---? ENTERITIS ?
- fiebre poludica----? SOME KIND OF FEVER
- los ferina ----WHOOPING COUGH
- hemotisis -----? SOME KIND OF BLOOD CONDITION
- lepra -----LEPROSY
- parto ---- CHILDBIRTH
- pulmonia -----PNEUMONIA
- pristula maligna ----?
- piguete/piquete de alacran ----- SCORPION BITE

These spellings are based on what I figured I was reading - not all of the handwriting was easily read.
These causes of death were on records from the year 1900.
LDS film # 1081927: Registro Civil, Valparaiso, Zacatecas, 1900-1903
FYI: I was searching for persons surnamed CASTRO and DUEÑAS

Thanks,
Natalie in VA

I am. Through several lines. Marge:)
On May 17, 2007, at 12:02 AM, mormonboy74 wrote:

>
> I dont know if you all got the news but On April 29, 2007 at 4:30 PM.
> Princess Letizia of Asturias gave birth to her second child with
> Prince Felipe. They named her Sofia after her grandmother Queen Sofia
> of Spain. She currently is my 19th cousin through the Mendozas of
> 1530's Mexico as far as my grandfather states since he's been doing
> genealogy for a longer time than myself. Is anyone else related to the
> Hurtado de Mendoza family? I have checked and they do descend from the
> Kings of Navarra.

Welcome to the group Rod,

I just went through your file and enjoyed your presentation very much. It was easy to read and the documentation was great. You've obviously done a lot of hard work! Thank you for sharing and look forward to seeing more from you in the future.

Linda Castanon-Long in Everett

Emilie:

This is a good point you raise re: backups of data. I have now moved to digitizing all documents and keeping them organized in electronic format. My binders were just getting out of hand and there was too much information that was too difficult to find.

I keep all of my info web-based software called The Next Generation (the same software that runs the GEDCOM database on Nuestros Ranchos). It allows uploading scans of documents and linking them to particular families, individuals or events.

I back up my work every two or three months on a CD.

I understand what the article says about CD-RW (rewriteable CDs). If you need to rewrite data on a medium, memory sticks (which use Flash memory) are definitely better than CDs. However, if you are simply creating a static copy of data, I would recommend CDs over memory sticks any day. They are less expensive and the data is stored optically, so as long as you keep the disk in a jewel case or a jacket it can keep the data forever, whereas a memory stick can be erased by electromagnetic forces.

As the article points out, not all optical media are the same. Gold metal layered discs are recommended for archival purposes as they are more resistant to prolonged exposure to sunlight or UV light. They are more expensive but worth the cost if you plan to store valuable information on them.

Some recommended brands:

Verbatim UltraLife Gold Archival Grade DVD
Memorex ProGold Archival DVD

Emilie,
I think the author of the article is suggesting using Memory sticks instead of CDR-W cds. Basically if you are going to erase contents later use a memory stick. Or you are going to rewrite over the files, etc. I use Memory sticks to transfer files from one computer to a different computer, for sharing purposes. I think if you are thinking long term storage, I would say use the CDs, ie CD-R.

Just my two centavos,
Angie Godina

Hi Esperanza!
I don't know if I asked you this but what part of Coahuila is your family
from. I have done research for Sierra Mojada and Parras de la Fuente.

thanks

Peggy Delgado

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org]On Behalf Of
Latina1955@aol.com
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 6:45 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Updated Tlaltenango area files

If I did everything properly, I just uploaded information from my family
tree around the Tlaltenango area. I must preface that this information
could
not have been complete had it not been for the generosity of sharing from
Helyn.. Also, since I am relatively new at this, please forgive some
inconsistencies that I discovered I did early on.

Also...for those of you who have a connection to Coahuila, I have included
my Villarreal lines from that area.

I would be very interested if someone else from this group is also
related....

Esperanza
Chicagoland area.

************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.

Well said Emilie!

Like you when I visited family for the first time in Mexico I was not considered Mexican enough for them. Since my Spanish is very poor they felt free to say things amongst themselves but I did catch the inferences. I'm not dark but I'm not light skinned either and people seem to feel free to ask me my ethnicity and like you I found that most expected "Mexicans" to be dark or only look like Indios. This melting pot of ours won't be happy until we all look alike, stateside that means light skinned.

I have already seen the lose of our history and identity in my family. Most of my generation did not marry within our ethnic origins. The need to save our personal history for a generation down the road who may wonder about their ancestors has become my calling.

I'm the last generation who has heard the stories from the grandfathers long gone. My father is 85 and forgetting many things as are his brothers and sister. I hope to preserve and share a history for those to come. This fuels my hours of work put into finding and preserving the records of my personal family who came to the United States to have a better, safer life for the people they loved. They gave up a Mexico they loved for the safety of their families which no longer existed because of the revolution. Because of their sacrifices I have a life in a country I love and know my children will probably have it even easier since they have assimilated, given up their racial indentity if you will. Sad but a fact in my family.

In our family we still have family reunions so the younger ones get to hear and experience our heritage but they for the most part don't live it on a daily basis. Life is not easy just different for them now. The faces are changing but we are still family. At the last reunion we came in so many colors we wondered if some even belonged in our group but they did! A senior Uncle tried to send a black child to the family next to us but he was one of ours, a new face he had not met before! We still laugh at Uncle for that one. My blue-eyed blond son worked at a hospital doing birth and death records and saw our Castanon surname on the list so rushed up to see who in the family it was. When he entered the room he found a Vietnamese woman and a Filopino man so he explained he was looking for family and they said they were not his family. At the next reunion there they were and we had a good laugh at our preconcieved ideas of what our family looks like today. That young
mans gr-grandfather is brother to my father! His son had married while in the service a woman from the Philipines and his son married a Vietnamese woman explaining our diverse looks.

While shopping here in Everett Wa. I saw a lady buying a pinata at a grocery store. The two senior Anglo ladies in front of me were watching and one asked the other what that thing was? Her friend told her it was a pinata, a California tradition! and life goes on....

Linda in Everett

Emilie Garcia wrote:
In the message below from Victoriano, he takes issue with certain labels we descendants of Mexicans here in this country use. One issue was the use of the term "Mexican-American", which he found "redundant", and he states that when he lived here he knew only people from Africa and Asia who did not use hyphens to describe their ethnicity. So, he was talking about those that had been born in foreign countries, not those who had been born here for generations, who do use Asian-American, and African-American, Native-American. The United States' statistical systems placed those labels on us, and we have to accept them in order to have some kind of identity since we are still minorities.

Amongst ourselves we are simply "Mexicans" even if we have never been to Mexico and know very little about it. Then there are the "political" labels, such as Mexicas or Aztlan or Chicano. Some of those groups claim to speak for all of us, but others of us reserve the right to speak for ourselves. We want to assimilate, but not lose our ethnic identity completely. So we compromise. I am not an Indian, not having been born in India. I am not Mexican, not having been born in Mexico. I am American, because that is what all native-born US residents call themselves, whether our ancestors came from England, Asia, Africa, etc. Only our darker colors, surnames and language identify us as not the majority American. My nephews' father was Black-American. His ancestry can be traced to the first slave ships that landed on "American" shores hundreds of years ago. They get asked all the time if they are "Hawaiian" and they answer that they are "Black". They know nothing about Afr
ica and
never will. If you happen to be white, you do not have to identify yourself as English-American, Italian American, though sometimes a Latin surname raises questions. Many Italian-Americans have changed their surnames to make them sound more "American".

Because the White Anglo Saxon Protestant culture holds sway here, those of us who do not fit the profile become hyphenated Americans. My husband is a white "Mexican" with roots in Mexico going back to the 1500s. His great-grandfather immigrated here in 1895. The WASP people that meet him for the first time decide that he cannot possibly be Mexican, he must be "Spanish", or "Castillian". "No", he says, "there is Spain and there is Mexico, and my people came from Mexico".

I am small, very dark, and have an Asian cast to my eyes. People who meet me up here in the Northwest where there are few people of Mexican descent think I am Filipino, or ask if I speak English. My husband's great-niece, whose parents and grandparents are all white (in family gatherings, I am the only raisin in the vanilla pudding), kept staring at me one day. She finally blurted out, "Aunt Emilie, what are you?" I was taken aback for a second, then I said, "Oh, you mean my ethnicity!". I told her I was "Mexican" like her great-uncle and his sister, her grandmother, but that unlike them, I had indigent blood and they had none, or it was very diluted, thus my dark skin vs. their fair skin. I told her my father had Mexican indigent blood (and I found in records also "mulatto" blood), and my mother descended from the Pueblos of New Mexico. I could take the time to explain to the great-niece why I look different than other members of her family, but when strangers ask, all
I can s
ay is "Mexican-American---I was born in Colorado, my father in Mexico....".

I think, Victoriano, you would be surprised at what we Mexican-Americans think about the labels placed on people in Mexico, and about the language they speak. The predominant language there at one time might have been Nahuatl, so why is that not the national language of Mexico? I guess because all indigent people have to assimilate and speak the language of the conqueror and adapt to his customs, same as in the US. I found the label "morena" and "guera" to identify people in Mexico very strange. We don't call people in the US "whitey" or "brownie" to their faces.

I was in a beauty shop in Mexico one day when the beautician asked me my husband's ethnicity. I told her, then she wanted to know if he was "norteno". I asked her what she meant. She said he was tall and white, like the "nortenos" in Jalisco. Now I know that he also could be referred to as Alteno, or guero. When we were in Acapulco or Puerto Vallarta one time, my husband was walking down from the swimming pool in next to nothing with his white skin red from the sun, and one maid said to the other, "Hay viene un calsonudo!" He whirled around and told her in Spanish that he, the "calsonudo", was paying her salary. I also saw a blue-eyed, very pink man at the swimming pool get very angry when a waiter walked up and asked him in English if he wanted a drink. The man said, "No soy gringo! Soy espanol!" And so it went.

I was shopping in Mexico one day, when a young boy asked me, "De donde eres?" I said, "Porque?" He said, "Porque hablas espanol, pero tienes un accento muy raro", and that was about the most polite exchange I had. I told him I was EstadoUnidense, the way my husband's aunts taught me to respond, but it was a while before I could get my tongue around that word. Due to my accent and poor Spanish, I was mostly treated in a very sarcastic manner, asked why, since it could be seen in my face that I was Mexican, why didn't I speak better Spanish. They said I should be proud of my "patria", but I wasn't born there. I just said I was not espanola, and the language of my native country is English. Labels are redundant, maybe, but when you look different or sound different from the majority, they have to suffice, you are forced to identify yourself, and so far only in the US is everyone that is born there identified as just plain American. We have a song, "God Bless America", no
t "God B
less the United States". Mexico is also the Estados Unidos Mexicanos.

Emilie

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Welcome officially Maria to the group. My name is Daniel A. Mendez Camino. 14years of age and LOVE genealogy. I am searching in Huanusco, Zac not too far from Tabasco and also in Calvillo, Ags. and all over Jalisco and Michoacan. I too understand how it feels to be related to myself. My family still marries family till this day. I think the reason in my case since all my ancestors at least the males were (I always forget the word my grandpa told me) but they were like Spanish Lords and such who had silver and gold mines in southern Zacatecas and to top it all of they had winerys and A LOT of land. I guess they only wanted to mix with other Spanish lords I dont really know. Much of or almost all their wealth was lost in the Revolution of 1910. All that exist to this day is just the winery. I've been only soing genealogy for about two years. Since I was really 12.