Nuestros Ranchos Site

Oh, thank you, Natalie. I downloaded several of the recipes from the article and others.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: nc_coleman@yahoo.com
> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:41:15 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Culinary History
>
> I came across this article - while searching for something unrelated to cooking. I thought it would be of interest.
>
> The lead-in reads: "In rural Zacatecas, Mexico, a young writer explores his heritage by cooking the rustic, boldly flavored dishes of the region."
>
> In truth, I have not read the entire article, so I can't provide a critique.
>
> See here:
>
> http://www.saveur.com/article/Travels/Mexico-Feeds-Me
>
> Natalie
>

Thanks Natalie for sharing,

Cute story, that could apply to many of us.

Alicia,
San Jose, ca

________________________________
From: "nc_coleman@yahoo.com"
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 1:41 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Culinary History

I came across this article - while searching for something unrelated to cooking. I thought it would be of interest.

The lead-in reads: "In rural Zacatecas, Mexico, a young writer explores his heritage by cooking the rustic, boldly flavored dishes of the region."

In truth, I have not read the entire article, so I can't provide a critique.

See here:

http://www.saveur.com/article/Travels/Mexico-Feeds-Me

Natalie

Hello Research,

Many of the strange and frustrating problems at FamilySearch are the
result of heavy traffic. In my area, Sundays are the worst. Sometimes
I just give up and try again another day, or at 4 in the morning -
then everything works fine.

--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com

George,

I'm on right now without any problems.

Alicia

________________________________
From: "gpf13@aol.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 6:53 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Is something going at Family Search

Is anyone having problems viewing images at Family Search tonight?

George Fulton

Dear Monica,

From early medieval times up to the Reformas Borbónicas (late XVIII century) the custom of surnames did not include a definite rule or order. A person could technically pick whichever surname he chose or deemed worthy of his/her benefit. This was based on persona preference. Often, woman took on maternal names, while men took their father’s; some examples include Alonso Guerra Valadés & Juan López de Elizalde who took on their mother’s names, but was not always the case.

Other times, children took on grandparent’s name for example if they were a namesake or they could choose a surname of an illustrious ancestor. This often occurred with the nobility, titled, untitled hijosdalgos and mayorazgos that often “forced” the possessor to carry down the name. Many times, within the same family this would occure. If Pedro Rodríguez de la Vera married Ana Gómez Pérez de Escalante and had seven children were born into this union. Four of the kids would use Rodríguez de la Vera, while two daughters used Franco de Escalante after their grandmother and the last one would use Pérez de Montoya after their great grandfather.

It also becomes more complicated when two houses joined or compounded their surname. Many if not all Spanish surnames were created this way, often referred as a sole practice of nobility, but is not always the case, it really depends on each individual family. Many examples can be found throughout all of Mexico. A great example would be the Hurtado de Mendoza family of Los Altos de Jalisco. Through compounding, this house created many new families: Jiménez de Mendoza, Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza, Gutiérrez de Mendoza, Ornelas y Mendoza, Sánchez de Mendoza, etc, though they all have a common trunk.

My personal examples would be Méndez de Torres. My paternal last name was created when Antonio Méndez de Sotomayor married María de Torres Fuentes in the late XVI century. My mother’s is Camino y Trasgallo or Camino-Trasgallo created when Antonio de Camino married Ana de Trasgallo y Escorza in the mid XVIII century.

Many surnames say González de Hermosillo and Pérez de Paredes, over time descendants lost the significance of their surname and shortened to Hermosillo or González. I read once that often they sounded too Spanish or pro-penínsular and many changed or shortened their names, but this does not convince me. The independenc replaced peninsular régime with a criollo régime. The kids took over the parent’s position. It would be more convenient to be introduced as José González Pérez then José González de Hermosillo y Pérez de Paredes. However there are many throughout México that still use the original González de Hermosillo, especially in Aguascalientes and Guadalajara. The other day I was watching on a Spanish channel about a haunted hacienda in the limits of Guadalajara, the original owners were a Flores Alatore and González Rubio in the late XIX century. However if this José González Pérez were to research his genealogy, he would eventually find out his original last names were González de Hermosillo and Pérez de Paredes. This could explain your González y Barrientos or González-Barrientos or González de Barrientos. As for the preposition “de” or “y” this can get complicated. Officially on records now days, I don’t think you would see “y”, I could be wrong. I heard once that Mexico City and Spain still conserve this. During colonial times it was common to see “de”, “de la”, “del”,“y”

During the colonial era, each person usually was placed in a casta or caste. Colonial America had a standard caste system all were placed in one, when they were baptized. Whether español (European, I found out this did not solely mean Spanish descent), mestizo (mixed), negro, lobo, etc. It was difficult for people to “move up” unless they married español. In one of my lines I have mestizos passing as “españols” and marrying español this created castizo children or ¾ European and ¼ Amerindian children. A perfect example of this would be my Purépecha line of descent from Tzinzticha Tangaxoan II whose descendants married into español. Also, the Moctezuma line that married into español.

I hope this helps and that I stated everything clearly. Without a doubt this a very interesting subject. If you need help on your genealogy, just ask away, I usually have some extra time on my hands. I am well informed in Aguascalientes genealogy, my mother’s beautiful city.

Daniel Méndez-Camino

I've found errors too in other batches; reported it and no one does anything about it

Jose Carlos de Leon

Arturo,
Thank you so much for sharing your Jalpa dispensa notes. You are doing a fantastic job with all the details you are compiling for each record.

I am sure there are many of us here who are benefiting from your work.

Best regards,
Claudia
www.guadalajaradispensas.com
www.sagradamitra.com

Hi Linda,

I'll try you're method on my PC Windows7 ... My grandson said the screen print should work...but the only way I actually got it to work was how I outlined what I did in my previous posting...

Thank you...
to be continued:

Pat Silva Corbera

----- Original Message -----
From: "Linda"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 4:30:21 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Screen Print

I use a Mac and the screen print from LDS film documents comes out quite good.  I just press shift, command, and the number 3 at the same time and I get a little sound like a camera shutter clicking and bingo, the copy is on my desktop. I have my screen print set to save it in jpg for my convenience. I can enlarge it, clip it, store it in iPhoto, keep a copy in a genealogy folder, or add it to my family tree.  I use Reunion for Mac's and I usually store a copy of the original baptismo and/or wedding info where a picture of the person would be.  It's very handy.

Linda

George,

In his book, Bautismos, Matrimonios Y Defunciones, En El Primer Siglo De Santa Maria De Los Lagos, Mmario Gomez Mata discusses this subject. See p. 252, footnote #315. It's a long footnote. If you don't have access to the book I'll scan and send a copy to you. It's in Spanish. Would you need a translation?

David Delgado
Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: gpf13@aol.com
>Sent: Nov 8, 2011 10:31 PM
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] de Luna Family of Aguascalientes
>
>The de Luna family, an Indian family, that lived in Aguascalientes in the early 1700s, is often named with the title Don or Dona. Does anyone know what the stature of the family was, or why they were referred to as Don or Dona?
>
>As an example, Dn Eugenio de Luna, son of Dn Pasqual de Luna and Da Maria de Salas, married Josepha Manuela (also an indian) on February 1, 1731. Both were from the Pueblo of San Bartholome.
>
>George Fulton
>Pleasanton, CA

George,
Among the indians who allied with Cortes in the conquest of Tenochtitlan, there is Don Sebastián Hernández del Aguila, tlaxcaltecan chief (cacique) who retained his nobility title after the conquest. One of his descendants, Don Diego Hernández de Aguila, founded the town of Nuestra Señora de Moya in the vicinity of Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, on February 19 1709,. Another interesting family was that headed by Don Matías Saucedo y Moctezuma, Captain of the Chichimecan Frontiers, who after some confrontations with Don José Rincón Gallardo, was granted some land by this landowner in the area of El Mezquital or Xonacatique and the town of "Jesús María de los Dolores", known today as "Jesús María" was founded. The 'Archivo Historico de Aguascalientes' includes documents of the Saucedo y Moctezuma family, where they are always identified as indians and referred to as 'Don'. I am not sure what is the relationship of Don Matías to Emperor Moctezuma, or to the other 'Moctezuma' (e.g., Petronila) in the area of Lagos-Aguascalientes.

Entre los indios aliados de Cortés que participaron en la conquista de Tenochtitlan, encontramos a Don Sebastián Hernández del Aguila, cacique tlaxcalteca que retuvo su titulo nobiliario. Uno de sus descendientes, Don Diego Hernández de Aguila, fue fundador, el 19 de Febrero de 1709, de el pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Moya, hoy parte de la mancha urbana de Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco. Otra familia interesante es aquella encabezada por Don Matîas Saucedo y Moctezuma, Capitán de las Fronteras Chichimecas, quién junto con su gente tuvo problemas con Don José Rincón Gallardo. El hacendado les cedió tierras en el area del El Mezquital o Xonacatique, para fundar el pueblo de Jesús María de los Dolores", hoy conocido como Jesús María, Aguascalientes. En el Archivo Historico de Aguascalientes existen documentos que hacen referencia a los Saucedo y Moctezuma, siempre identifcados como indios, pero usando el calificativo 'Don'. Desconosco cual es la relación de Don Matías con el Emperador Moctezuma, o con los 'Moctezuma' (e.g., Petronila) que radicaron en la region de Lagos-Aguascalientes.

I do not have details about the members of the Luna family, but I would not be surprised that they share a similar story.

Sincerely

Jaime Alvarado

Estimado Roberto,
Es posible que aunque sea de la jurisdicion de La Barca podia ser bautizado en un lugar cercano como Ayotlan. Como sabes las jurisdiciones en esa area cambian muy seguidamente. El sureste de Jalisco en aquel entonces partenecia al Obispado de Michoacan, una audencia y corte muy distinto a la de la Nueva Galicia. Encuentro muchas veces en mis propias lineas que gente en esa area viajaban y bautizaban y casaban en lugares cercanos como Ayotlan (Ayo el Chico) Atotonilco el Alto, Ocotlan. Unas de mis lineas Hernadez Gamino eran de La Barca y casaron en Leon, Gto y se velaron en Jacona, Michoacan! Mi linea de Leonel Gomez de Cervantes casaron en Tepatitlan y velaron en La Barca. Esa linea de los Mora-Mendoza con los Villar Villamil que hace tiempo que platicamos casaron en La Barca y velaron en Chapala. Te deseo suerte.
Daniel Mendez Camino

Claudia

In your notes some of the records are marked with * and others with **

Do these have some significance from the record, or are they personal notes?

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Try the following:

http://www.tedpack.org/text2ged.html

If you do a google search for "convert ext to gedcom" a number of other options come up.

While I have never done this specifically, I have edited gedcom files with a text editor to remove extraneous material. As long as you are careful, it works; if you aren't careful, the file can be damaged. Make sure you have a back-up of the file before saving the changes!

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Hola a todos, espero y alguien del grupo me pueda orientar en el
siguiente tema:
Desde hace algunos dias encontre en Familysearch la fe de fautismo de
Manuela Villalobos, esposa de Gabriel Moreno de Ortega casados el 23 de
enero de 1745 en Santa Maria de los Lagos y buscando en algunos arboles
genealogicos encontre conexion con Petronila Moctezuma, supuesta
decsendiente de Moctezuma Xocoyotzin, ¿que tan fiable es el parentesco
entre Petronila y el Tlatoani Moctezuma? y ¿quien es el investigador que
sostienen esta hipotesis? me intriga mucho debido a la importancia
Historica de Moctezuma y a que Manuela Villalobos y Gabriel Moreno son
mis 6º bisabuelos.

De antemano gracias por su ayuda.

Atte Mario Gonzalez
Mexico DF

Is anyone doing lookups in this series...i would like to know if the surname is even in the book prior to purchasing...

Amalia Hernandez Arias

Estimado Jorge,

Para desempeñar un cargo u otro oficial de esa naturaleza el pretenso tenía que probar que era “que su casa y linaje es limpio de todo mala raza, judío, moro, herexe, y que es muy conocido que son viejos y buenos cristianos de linaje”. Normalmente en una limpieza de sangre tendría que presentar su genealogía por lo menos hasta sus cuatro abuelos y algunos casos si son de origen noble y linaje hijosdalgo podía resultar hasta los bisabuelos y su línea agnada.

Sea lo que sea, este documento es muy importante, ya que es tu antepasado. Mi familia paterna, levantaron una limpieza de sangre en 1805 en la Ciudad de México y Valladolid para ingresar al Real y Muy Ilustre Colegio de Abogados en la ciudad de México donde se recibieron con sus licenciaturas. Unos de ellos luego sería el segundo gobernador de Michoacán, Lic. Telésforo Méndez de Torres y Cano durante el primer Imperio Mexicano.

También era costumbre que el pretenso presentara por lo menos tres testigos que le conocía por buen tiempo y “testificar que limpios eran”. Si tienes suerte, luego agregaban un dibujo de su árbol genealógico con su rúbrica certficando que todo es corecto ante Dios y los tres testigos y ante esta Corte Real y Audencia.. Juraban y firmaban.

He trabajado bastante con los Otaduy-Avendaño originarios de la Corte de Madrid. Tengo copias su pase a indias, confirmación de oficios, testamento, bautismos, matrimonios, defunciones, etc. Da. Luisa de Otaduy y Avendaño y su hermana Da. Isabel eran penínsulares, algo que no era muy común. Ambas casaron en Aguascalientes. Tuvieron un hermano menor D. Joseph de Otaduy y Avendaño que nació criollo y bautizado en Santa María de los Lagos el 27 de febrero de 1691.

Seguro que existen dispensa de ultramarino para ambas hermanas en su casamientos ante la Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara y la Real Audencia. Isabel casó al Capt. Julián Antonio de Mendoza el 9 de diciembre de 1708. Da. Luisa o Lucía casó tres veces, sucesión en todas. No tenía Luisa casada por la tercera vez a Pedro Marentes. Podías compartir la acta matrimonial? Quisiera tener copia de ella.

1) Capt. Miguel Martín-Barragán, Comerciante natural de Zamora, Michoacán
2) Capt. Antonio Ruiz de Escamilla
3) D. Pedro Marentes, Escribano Público

Notarás que estas familias luego formarán parte de la aristocracia de Aguascalientes. Ocurre un gran cambio en la élite de Aguascalientes del siglo XVII al XVIII. Varias familias que fundaron Aguascalientes luego pierde su importancia e influencia en el sigo XVIII.

DANIEL MENDEZ-CAMINO

Estimado Enrique:

Tengo lo siguiente:

Ignacio Ruiz de Esparza casó Juana Leonarda López Guerra el 3 de julio de 1732 en el Sagrario de Aguascalientes. Era español hijo legítimo de Manuel Ruiz de Esparza y Ana Vicente (también Montañés). Te paso la línea Ruiz-Esparza, ya que es probale que busques.

Manuel Ruiz de Esparza casó Ana Vicente el 9 de febrero de 1687 en el Sagrario de Aguascalientes. Este era hijo de Martín Ruiz de Esparza y Francisca de Jaén (también Sotelo, Beltrán Gaytán).

Martín Ruiz de Esparza era hijo de Martín Ruiz de Esparza, fallecido el 25 de octubre de 1674 y María López de Elizalde quien era hijo de Lope Ruiz de Esparza, Señor de los palacios de Esparza y Ana Francisca Gabay.

DANIEL MENDEZ CAMINO

Hola Enrique,

Ignacio Ruiz de Esparza era hijo legítimo de Manuel Ruiz de Esparza y Ana
Montañez (Ana Vicente de Montañez). Ignacio contrajo matrimonio con Juana
Leonarda López el 3 de Julio de 1732 en la Parroquia de la Asunción de
Aguascalientes (Matrimonios 1721-1736 Image 150/253). Juana era hija de
padres no conocidos. Para mayores detalles ver Informaciones Matrimoniales
1731-1732 Image 414/527. Ambos pretensos declararon ser vecinos de
Aguascalientes. Al enviudar Ignacio contrajo segundas nupcias con Ana
Liberata Ruiz de Esparza, pariente lejana bastante menor que él. La boda se
celebró el 15 de febrero de 1756 en la Parroquia de la Asunción de
Aguascalientes.

Saludos,

BILL FIGUEROA

I believe the father of Thomas is Diego Romo de Vivar, and not Maximo. On the first page, part of the name is not visible on the image which makes it difficult to read, but I think it says Diego.

In the second image, in the "Declarasson del contrahente" it says, in part, "que se llama Thomas rromo de vibar y que es natural de esta villa y su pe [padre] se llama Diego rromo de bivar y su me [madre]Luisa de los angeles"

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Dear Deedra,

Miguel Ruiz de Esparza was one of Lucas Ruiz de Esparza's cousins. At the time there were two primos named Miguel Ruiz de Esparza, on was son of Andres Ruiz de Esparza and Catalina Gutierrez de Bilbao and the other was s/o Ignacio Ruiz de Esparza and Elena Lopez. We cannot determine which one was in this document as a witness, but we do know it is one of those two.

Thanks for sharing this document!

Daniel Mendez Camino

Hello Deedra,

Lucas Ruiz de Esparza, first husband of Juana Pérez Calvillo, was the son of
Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza and Catalina Lozano de Frías. Christobal Ruiz de
Esparza was his brother. Christobal married Antonia de Alvarado y López de
Elizalde. They are my 6th ggrandparents. I'm still looking for the parents
of Juana Pérez (aka Juana Pérez de Cubillos, Juana Galindo) who married
Thomas Romo de Vivar on 21 May 1687 after her husband died. Thomas Romo de
Vivar was the son of Diego Romo de Vivar and María Luisa de los Angeles de
los Reyes, married in México City ca. 1650.

BILL FIGUEROA

Te felicito por tu exito Jorge. Como sabras los Mendez de Torres enlazaron muy cercano con los Perez de Garfias, Gutierrez de Robles y Ochoa Garibay. Desciendo de ambas familias. Si necesitas ayuda, dejamelo saber, he estudiado el archivo de Zamora, muy bien. Hasta extracte muchisima informacion para mi archivo personal..
Daniel Mendez Camino

If you go to World Cat at http://www.worldcat.org/ you can find a library that has this book.

If you search for this title, there are actually two books by this author with similar titles:

Filigranas, fundaciones y genealogías, Tepetongo, Zacs., published in 1999
and
Filigranas, fundaciones y genealogías : Jerez, 1531-1992-2006, Susticacán, 1562-1981, y Monte Escobedo 1600-1700-1995, Zacatecas, published in 2007

The website allows you to put in your zip code, and it will list the libraries closest to you in order of distance.

In my case, the closest library is in Southern California.

World Cat does not necessarily include all libraries, but only those that are part of its system.

If you live near Salt Lake City, also check the FHL catalog (this is not part of World Cat).

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Profesor Gracias por hacerme recordar viejos tiempos yo apesar de que
tengo 40 recuerdo esas frases.... la razon pues mi Padre nacio por el
año de 1911 y esas frases eran comunes en el

GRACIAS MUCHAS GRACIAS
Sergio Eduardo Alatorre Gomez

Gracias profesor por subir esas antiguas frases de la region altena. En verdad si se siguen usando y escuchando en los pueblos de la region. Recientemente escuche esta frase que utilizo mi esposa "Oye tu estas viendo Moros con tranchetes" Le pregunte sobre el origen de esta y dice que sus Abuelos y algunos ancianos del pueblo la decian. Me pregunto yo si esta frase data a la Espana medival cuando las guerras entre Cristiano y Moro? Tambien me pregunto sobre nuestra oracion Catolica "Por la senal de la Santa Cruz, de nuestros enemigos libranos Senor Dios nuestro" etc... He notado que en Ingles en USA esta oracion no se acostumbra. Sera tambien acaso de nuestra historia de Cristiano vs Moro en Espana? Simple curiosidad.
Gracias Jose A. Michel

Daniel,

Do you know if Nicolas is related to Joseph de Elisalde, md to Juana
Carrillo(6ggpts)? They had children in Teocaltiche and Mexticacan between
1713-1725.
Sabe usted si Nicolas es pariente de Joseph de Elisalde, casada con Juana
Carrillo? Tuvieron hijos in Teocaltiche y Mexticacan entre 1713-1725.

Gracias.
Raquel Ruiz