Nuestros Ranchos Site

Hi Emilie,
I descend from your Magdalenos, and this family can get confusing because they use multiple surnames and given names. But, those are not the correct parents of your Bernabé Magdaleno (de Don Diego).  This dispensa shows that Ildefonso González and María Antonia Magdaleno were second cousins and received a waiver in the 3rd degree and it shows both descend from (Juan) Don Diego Magdaleno and (Michaela) Rosa de Aguirre (Mendoza)/Limón:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18411-50259-77?cc=1874591&wc…

As you can see from the dispensa, your Bernabé Magdaleno is the son of (Juan) Joseph Magdaleno and Isabel Limón. And, (Juan) Joseph Magdaleno is the son of (Juan) Don Diego Magdaleno and (Michaela) Rosa de Aguirre(Mendoza)Limón.

Bernabé Magdaleno (de Don Diego) married María Gertrudis Pérez on 29 Oct 1752 in Santa María de los Lagos, Jalisco, México:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18560-25051-6?cc=1874591&wc=…

María Gertrudis Pérez is the daughter of Joseph Pérez de Ornelas and Quitería de Luera. Joseph Pérez de Ornelas and Quitería de Luera married 10 Feb 1732 in Santa María de los Lagos:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18571-2328-10?cc=1874591&wc=…

Quitería de Luera is the daughter of Jacinto de Luera and Theresa Martel.  Joseph Pérez de Ornelas is the son of Marcos Pérez de Ornelas and María López. In "Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara" by Maria de la Luz Montejano Hilton on page 567, #2850, there is a dispensa that lists the parents of Marcos Pérez de Ornelas and María López:

Lagos de Moreno. Jal. Marzo 27 de 1702. Exp. 212.- Dispensa de tercero con segundo grado de consanguinidad.- Marcos de Ornelas, español de 23 años de edad. orginarío y vecino de esta feligresía de Santa María de los Lagos, hijo legítimo de Juan Pérez y de Leonor de Ruvalcaba. difunta, con María López, española por su aspecto parece ser de 20 años de edad, originaría de la feligresía de Xalostotitlan y vecina de esta feligresía, hija legítima de Rafael de Mendoza y de Cathalina López, difunta. Declaración del pretenso: Porque Beatriz López fué hermana de Cathalina López, y la dicha Beatriz López, tuvo por hijo a Juan Pérez, y éste me tuvo por su hijo, y la dicha Cathalina López, tuvo por hija a María López, pretensa. 13 fojas.

Christopher de Cuellar

Emilie,

Is your Bernabé Magdaleno married to Gertrudis Pérez?

Paige

Emilie,

Is your Bernabé Magdaleno married to Gertrudis Pérez?

Paige

Hi Danny,

No problem, and welcome to the group. I would make sure to always go to the website, it's definitely easier to follow. Plus, sometimes you won't receive all the emails. Yes, Josepha de Aguirre and Josepha Magdaleno are the same person. The naming practices in those times were different and as you get more familiar with the region you'll notice women would often use the name of their mother or grandmother. The following dispensa shows that Josepha Magdaleno is the daughter of Simón Magdaleno and Josefa Guzmán and that Simón Magdaleno is the son of Diego Magdaleno and Mariana de Aguirre:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18410-28762-7?cc=1874591&wc=…
 
And, this dispensa shows that Josefa Guzmán is the daughter of Melchor de Guzmán and Jacinta Gutiérrez Coronado:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18413-95547-28?cc=1874591&wc…

Christopher de Cuellar

Hi Armando,
I agree, I think the age of Juan Antonio de Rubalcava is wrong on the IM. I have him as 34 years old at the time he married 20 year old Isabel Macías, based on this baptism with Pedro Alonso de los Hinojos as his padrino: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11662-70255-26?cc=1502404&…
I guess this Juan Antonio de Rubalcava could've died and they had another Juan Antonio de Rubalcava born some years later, but, certainly not as late as the IM suggests. For now, I'm using this one.
Chris

Hi Armando,
Thanks, I wanted to be sure. I think then that this is the baptism for the Isabel Macías that's married to Juan Antonio de Rubalcava:  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11678-32285-58?cc=1502404&…
I just noticed her padrino is Juan Manuel de Trillo, and his son George de Trillo is the padrino of her son Guillermo de Rubalcava.
Chris

My husband's ancestors were related by marriage to the Macias, and his ancestors also included some Rubalcabas. They were all from Encarnacion de Diaz. Have you put your family tree in Nuestros Ranchos? See my trees under Emilie Garcia. My husband is Antonio Garcia

Congratulations on getting hooked on genealogy. It will be a lifelong hobby, and you will always love it.

Many of us wish we had started at your age, and wish we had interviewed all our eldest living relatives for more information before they took it to the grave. Get photos, stories, any documents they have.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2015 06:49:42 -0800
> From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction and information on Ysabel Macias
>
> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum
>
> I'm Danny and I've been researching my family for about a month. It started
> as a school project but then I became really interested after it was over.
> My Spanish teacher that's LDS was helping me read the records. I'm not sure
> of the actual ranches that my familes ancestors are from, but they're
> mostly on records from the Encarnacion de Diaz section of Family Search.
> Ive traced my family to Ysabel Masias and Juan Antonio De Robalcaba married
> in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico on May 27th 1764 but
> the record wasn't readable, even by my teacher. Thank you for letting me be
> in the forum and if the forum knows who Ysabel Masias's ancestors are
> please tell me.
>
> --
> Danny C. Alonso

Hello Danny,

It says -

"En la villa de Aguascalientes en veinte y siete
de Mayo de mi setecientos sesenta y cuatro
años habiendo precedido las diligencias
acostumbradas prevenidas por derecho
leído se las amonestaciones dispuestas por
el Santo Concilio de Trento en la Iglesia
Parroquial en tres días festivos inter
missarum solemnia que lo fueron el seis
trece y el quince del corriente mes y no
habiendo resultado de ellas impedimento
alguno como teniente de Br
Matías Joseph asistió al matrimonio
que en mi presencia por palabras
de presentes celebraron Juan Antonio de
Robalcaba español originario y vecino de
esta villa en La Estansuela hijo legítimo de
Miguel de Robalcaba difunto y de María
de Villalobos con Isabel Macías española
originaria y vecina de esta villa en La
Villita hija legitima de Joseph Manuel
Macías difunto y de María Josefa de Aguilar"

The rest is very hard to read.

I haven't found a marriage record for Miguel González de Rubalcava and María Villalobos y Escoto Tovar but the first baptism I can find for a child is for Juan Joseph González de Rubalcava y Villalobos 28 Aug 1713 so they should have married at least 10-12 months prior to that date. I don't think there is an información matrimonial for them but it would be good to double check.

María Villalobos y Escoto Tovar was baptized 28 Feb 1694 and was the daughter of Isidro de Villalobos Macías Valadez and Francisca Gertrudis Escoto y Tovar married befpre 1683 based on the following Dispensa 168024 -

Phelipe de Chavez, 30a hl de Pedro de Chavez+ y Catarina Jimenez con Teresa de Villalobos, 30a hl de Isidro de Villalobos+ y Gertrudis de Rublacava

Árbol
Antonia de Villalobos.......1...Isidro de Villalobos
Pedro de Chavez..............2...Isidro de Villalobos
Pto...................................3...Pta
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18415-73711-18

Isidro de Villalobos Macías Valadez was the son of Isidro de Villalobos Macías Valadez and María Vásquez de Retamosa married 22 May 1640 in Teocaltiche based on the following

Dispensa de 4o grado
Tronco Francisco de Villalobos cc María Macias
Diego Villalobos..................1...Mariana Villalobos
cc Ana Jimenez.........................cc Esteban de Chavez
Francisco Villalobos............2...Vicente de Chavez
cc Xaviera Velasco....................cc Isabel de Ulloa
Pioquinto de Villalobos........3...Rosalia de Chavez
cc Margarita Macias..................cc Joseph Manuel Lopez
Teresa de Villalobos, pta.....4...Miguel Ignacio Lopez, pto

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18401-10098-46

[Tronco Cristóbal de Villalobos..cc..María Pérez de Nava]
[Tomás de Villalobos .........1...Francisco de Villalobos]
Pedro de Villalobos.............2...Diego de Villalobos
Ignacio de Villalobos, pto....3...Catarina de Villalobos, pta

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18415-38179-52

[Tronco Cristóbal de Villalobos..cc..María Pérez de Nava]
Tomás de Villalobos .........1...Francisco de Villalobos
Nicolás de Villalobos........2...Antonia de Villalobos
Nicolás de Villalobos........3...Manuel de Chávez
Miguel de Villalobos........4.....Margarita de Chávez

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18415-73311-6

Francisco de Villalobos was baptized 31 July 1595 in Mexico City. He was the son of Cristóbal de Villalobos and María Pérez de Nava married 19 Oct 1594 in Mexico City.

Al margen
velados xpoval de villa
lovos i ma peres
En diez y nueve de Octubre de mill y quinientos y nobenta
y quatro años yo El bachiller Joan ugarte aviendose echo
las amonestaciones y de mas diligencias y con
madamiento del provisor y no ? de ni
gun ynpedimento despose y di la ben[roto]
nunpciales en esta iglesia a Xpoval [roto]
vz de esta ciudad y natural en la villa de [roto]
en los reynos de castilla hijo de mateo [roto]
vos y de bernardina Lan clares con [roto]
natural desta ciudad hija de Xpoval [roto]
madalena siendo testigos diego muñoz [roto]
? y franco blanco y andres [roto]

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-11174-910-34

María Vásquez de Retamosa was baptized 27 Jan 1620 in Aguascalientes. She was the daughter of Gaspar Macías Valadez and Mariana de Torres married 26 Mar 1612 in Aguascalientes.

En 6 de Março de 612 despose a Gaspar Macías y a Mariana de Torres en la estancia de Nicolás Ramirez de Las Peñuelas, siendo testigos Alonso Macias, y los melliços, y Nicolas Ramirez y lo firmé -- Gabriel Ordoñez

(22) Don Gaspar Macias-Valadez y Retamosa el 6 de marzo de 1612 se caso en la Estancia de Peñuelas con Doña Mariana de Torres y su hermano Felipe Macías-Valadez y Retamosa el 1 de julio de 1618 contrajo matrimonio con María de Torres. Las dos eran hijas de Don Nicolás Ramírez y de Polonia de Torres (González Leal Mariano, Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia, Esquema genealógico numero 4, "Hijos de Nicolás Ramírez y de Polonia de Torres, y familias que de ellos provienen", Tomo II, 1982; Capitulo Macías-Valadez, indito).

Don Gaspar Macías-Valadez y de Retamosa, logró consolidar varios sitios de tierra en la Cañada de los Charcos, que baja del Cerro de los Gallos, con las que formó la llamada "Hacienda de los Charcos". Su hermano Alonso Macías-Valadez y Retamosa, fungió como Alcalde de la Villa de Nuestra Señora de la Asunción de las Aguas calientes y adquirió tierras en la Estancia de "San Nicolás de la Estanzuela", en un arroyo pedregoso que baja al pie del Cerro de los Gallos.

22. La Estancia de las Peñuelas, que primero fue propiedad de Don Nicolás Ramírez, luego le fue mercedada el 28 de junio de 1634 a Pedro Alonso de los Hinojos y años más tarde el 28 de junio de 1694 a Don Nicolás Fernández de Palos. AHJ. Tierras y Aguas, Instrumentos de la Hacienda de Peñuelas. http://historiasyrecuerdosdeencarnaciondediaz.com/macias.html

They are also supposed to change the subject of the email so it doesn't have "General Digest, Vol such and such"

Welcome, Danny!
You are so fortunate to start your interest at such a young age! I envy you.
Some advice that I wish was given to me:
This is a fantastic way to learn Spanish so don't just scan records for the information you want. Read the whole thing. You will find interesting tidbits of information in the "meat" of some documents.
Translate the whole record. What is not important now, may be a clue later. This includes noting padrinos (godparents), ranches, etc. Back then padrinos were mostly family. My personal experience is that I kept finding records for the family of Santiago Mora but he was not connected to my family. He was, however, frequently a padrino to my documented family. I made a separate tree for Santiago and his family and later found the common ancestor. As soon as I found this, I added 4 generations of Moras to my tree.
Note your sources!!!!!!!! Years later and I am still adding sources because I was so anxious in the beginning that I skipped this step.REGRET! Now it takes so long to retrace steps as I gain experience of how to research.Noting sources saved me when a new found relative questioned my information. Mine was sourced, she still didn't believe it but she was able to look at my sources and found she had been doing years of research in the wrong region. Not uncommon which is why you should use index information as the first step before looking at the actual record.
If you are using Family Search for films, note actual page numbers of the book as well as image numbers. If you have to go back or want to share information, it is so much easier.
Talk to the older generation now! Names and dates are fantastic but my personal favorites are what can't be found in documents: favorite holidays and how they were celebrated, favorite foods and recipes, how did people meet, occupation, describe a typical day in their childhood, who were the ancestors that migrated and why, etc
Good luck, Danny!

Juan Antonio de Robalcaba native and resident of this town in Estanzuela legitimate son of Miguel de Rovalcaba , deceased and Maria Isabel de Villalobos Legitima Daughter of Joseph Manuel Masias de Fuente and Maria Josepha de Aguirre

These classes by Angel are not available online.

> 2. Re: The Basque connection to New Mexican Families (Joseph
> > Puentes)
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2015 21:17:26 -0500
> > > From: "Joseph Puentes"
> > > To: ,
>
> > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: The Basque connection to New
> Mexican
> > > Families (Haplogroup R1b1)
> > > Message-ID: <0ca901d0377b$e68d0110$b3a70330$@rr.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Angel R. Cervantes [mailto:angelrcervantes@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2015 9:07 PM
> > > To: undisclosed-recipients:
> > > Subject: The Basque connection to New Mexican Families (Haplogroup
> > > R1b1)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I would like to invite you to attend a lecture on the Basque
> > > connection
> > to New Mexican Families (Haplogroup R1b1). If you would like to learn
> > more about the mark this ancient civilization made on the Iberian
> > Peninsula then this presentation is for you. There will be a
> > presentation on the subject on February 20, at 3:30 PM, through the
> > University of New Mexico Continuing Education program.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Here is a link to sign up for the presentation:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://newmexico.augusoft.net/index.cfm?method=ClassInfo.ClassInformat
> > ion
> > <
> >
> http://newmexico.augusoft.net/index.cfm?method=ClassInfo.ClassInformat
> > ion&int_class_id=67463>
> > &int_class_id=67463
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > > ?ngel de Cervantes
> > > Project Administrator
> > > New Mexico DNA Project
> > > Iberian Peninsula DNA Project

C M = Ciudadano Mexicano

2015-02-06 22:44 GMT-06:00 Beverly Ewald :

>
>
> I have recently come across some baptismal records that have the infant's
> names, followed by the initials C. M. Can anyone tell me what the C. M.
> stands for? Thanks.
>
>
>
> See this image:
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20465-15470-77?cc=1860864…
> C48-SM9:167670301,167670302,168112901
>

C M = Ciudadano Mexicano

2015-02-06 22:44 GMT-06:00 Beverly Ewald :

>
>
> I have recently come across some baptismal records that have the infant's
> names, followed by the initials C. M. Can anyone tell me what the C. M.
> stands for? Thanks.
>
>
>
> See this image:
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20465-15470-77?cc=1860864…
> C48-SM9:167670301,167670302,168112901
>

i'm not sure either, i would love to find a database on that subject

This book is available through the used books section of Amazom.com. Prices and conditions seem reasonable.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

My ancestors were also from Zapotlan el Grande (Ciudad Guzman).
My Great Grandfather x7, Antonio Rodriguez married Theresa Ramires July 06, 1706, Zapotlan El Grande. They had a son by the name of Thomas who decided to carry on his mothers surname "Ramires". Thomas is also identified as "hijo legitimo" de Antonio Rodriguez.

Not sure if carrying on your mothers surname was custom throughout Mexico but in some areas it was. I also have read that if a couple had many children it was expected for at least one of them to carry on the mothers surname. We will let the experts comment and educate us on that.

I just wanted to also add that I am a participant in the Family Tree DNA project and have my results to share with anyone. My YDNA is I-M223 I2a2a (I believe its the same as I2b1). Wish more people from Southern Jalisco would participate in the DNA project.

I am a native of Southern California and very familiar with the San Fernando Valley. I got married in Encino, CA. I have read about the Sepulveda, Bandini, De La Guerra y Noriega, Pico and other surnames (families) that lived and owned land in S. California.

I will follow your story

That's interesting information. I'm willing to help with the DNA results. However, there is a limitation on what can be determined based on the type and level of testing and how well documented the trees of the matches are and how much Y-DNA SNP testing the matches have done. The Y-DNA STR test should be at least 37 markers, but 67 markers are much better, to find matches. If there are no matches then the results will be limited to providing information on the haplogroup which would likely need additional SNP testing for anything conclusive for a region and time period for when the SNP first appeared based on ancient remains and/or calculated estimates.

Any autosomal testing would be limited to ethnicity results since that too long ago to prove a connection to any families in Jalisco.

Information from mtDNA results depend on the level of testing, haplogroup, matches, and trees of the matches. If it isn't Full Sequence testing it will be harder to find matches of significance. If the haplogroup is common in a lot of people of the same ethnicity of the maternal line then it will also be hard to provide any information other than a large geographical region where the haplogroup is most common.

Armando

you could check bolanos, teul, or tepechitlan

There was never an agreement though. The marrying of españoles with other españoles was due to being able to maintain a higher status in society by marrying other people considered to be españoles. Since marrying into a lower class would cause them to be reduced in class they tried to avoid that. This happened all over Mexico and not just in Los Altos. When peninsulares with daughters moved to the region that allowed the Alteños to marry them maintain a higher ratio of Spanish ancestry. There would be no need to have an agreement to do something that the rest of society in Latin America expected a person to do.

Armando

Normally I have read and heard about indiano being used for a person born in Spain that has gone to the Indies (America) and made a lot of money and gone back to Spain to live the rest of his life. However, that's the 4th definition in the dictionary of the Real Academia Española http://lema.rae.es/drae/?val=indiano

It's the first definition that seems to be what is used. Saying that he was born in America but his origins (ancestry) is from Spain.

I'm basing that on that fact that it says he was "natural de la ciudad de Guayaquil en la America Meridional y vago ya por varios puntos de esta septentrional..." which literally means he was "born in Guayaquil in South America and he traveled through various points of this North [America]" and because on the left indent it says español indiano which would mean his ancestry is considered Spanish.

Meridional means south and septentrional means north.