Dr.mt

Melchor de Richarte and Thomasa de Guzman y Prado

Published by dcalonso –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

I'm trying to see if anyone has any information on capitan Melchor de
Richarte and María Tomasa de Guzmán y Prado. They both would've been born
probably in the 1680s.

Comments

Published by MiguelNR – Thu, 2019-05-02 19:30 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Danny, I emailed you about Melchor just now. He is on my family tree. There are a few records relating to Melchor, but he is a bit of a mystery. Not much is known of his origins. I believe that the Aguascalientes City records have a document indicating he engaged in slave trading. There is also a marriage dispensation as I recall, but it did not shed light on his parents or origins. Some undocumented genealogies on Ancestry.com have him coming from the Pais Valenciano in Spain, but I’ve seen no hard evidence of that.

Comment

My Great Grandmother was a Richarte (Ricarte). Melchor de Richarte is also my ancestor. I can not find any records of his parent's names nor can I find any of his children's "abuelos" names either. I also saw that some people on Ancestry have him coming from Spain, but I have yet to find any evidence as well. What records in Aguascalientes did you see that he was a slave trader? I noticed they also have him as Capitan Melchor de Richarte in a record.

Lugar, o lugares más indicados para buscar testamentos de gente que vivió en Juchipila

Published by isloera –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Soy descendiente de Alonso Velasco y de Ana Flores de la Torre, los dos residentes en Juchipila.

Comments

Published by ppchuy – Tue, 2020-01-28 11:13 | Permalink

Comment

E visto que muchas cosas del área de Huejucar preceden en Tlantenago de Sanchez Roman ; busca ahi puede haber algo

Lorenza de Oballe Liebana cc Diego Magdaleno, Juan Asencio de Leon cc Geronima de Liebana, et al

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hola prim@s,

Comments

Published by dserna1 – Sun, 2019-10-27 20:21 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Manny,

I've read the IM of Geronimo and Rosa a couple of times. From what I could tell from the witnesses, whatever parentesco there was, it was indeed too remote to be figured out by the eldest of the elders (Juan de Bejar, Francisco de Bejar and Tomas de Bejar - all born in the 1630s). If the parentesco truly existed it would have existed in the generation of Ana Garcia de Liebana cc Juan Maciel Plancarte and earlier. (We're talking mid - late 1500s)

Maria de Liebana (wife of Gregorio de Bejar Sandoval) was actually the daughter of Juan Maciel Plancarte and Ana Garcia de Liebana. We know this through countless dispensas and also given the timeframe of when Juan Ascencio de Leon was having children with Geronima de Liebana vs. when Gregorio and Maria had their children. Juan Ascencio de Leon didn't really show up in Tangancicuaro and the surrounding areas 'til about the mid 1640s. He also didn't start having children 'til about the mid 1640s.

Juan Ascencio de Leon mentions in this following document when he first arrived to the area:

Territorial disputes in Tangancicuaro regarding the lands of the Maciels, Navarro Gaytan, Bernardo Quiroz, etc.

...En el pueblo de Tangancicuaro en diez y siete del mes de Julio de mil seissientos y setenta y dos anos Presento por testigo a Juan Ascencio de Leon vecino de dicha jurisdicion del cual recibi juramento que hizo por Dios nuestro senor y la senal de la cruz en forma de derecho socargo del cual prometio decir verdad y siendole preguntado por el tenor de dicha peticion dijo que abra veinte y ocho anos que vive en esta jurisdicion y en este...

All in all I have Juan Ascencio de Leon cc Geronima de Liebana (daughter of Alvaro Yanez Maciel cc Isabel Orozco del Castillo) as the parents of:

  • Juan Ascencio de Leon cc Maria de Lomelin
  • Geronima Ascencio de Leon cc Tomas Hernandez Gamino
  • Ana de Liebana cc Nicolas de Murguia
  • Antonia de Liebana cc Jose de Vargas
  • Josefa de Liebana cc Jose Tello de Orozco
  • Pedro Ascencio de Leon cc Ana de Zamora y Ontiveros



    • Agustin Maciel cc Ines Rodriguez: I have Agustin as a child of Juan Maciel Blancarte and Ana de Garcia Liebana. Ines was the daughter of Juan Bautista ??? and Mariana ??? as mentioned in this IM:

    https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-TQ2Z-M?i=141&cc=1883388&cat=394235

    Nicolas Maciel cc Geronima de Ayala: I have Nicolas as another possible child of Juan Maciel Blancarte and Ana de Garcia de Liebana. It's a suspicion given that Nicolas and Geronima were having children in the 1640s (Tlazazalca). Geronima de Ayala I have as being a possible child of Tomas de Ayala cc Juana de la Mora y Ovalle. What I find confusing is that there's a Nicolas Maciel and a Geronima de Ayala alonside a Nicolas Maciel and Geronima de la Cueva... Are they one in the same couple? I don't know for certain.

    I don't have Nicolasa de Liebana cc Juan Basilio Ruiz de Velasco in my records.

    One last thing... I find it very interesting that Lorenza de Ovalle y Liebana (cc Diego Magdaleno) actually had the surname Ovalle. Per the witnesses in the IM you mentioned, Lorenza is mentioned with an Ovalle surname. If so... The Maciels have a connection to the Ovalles. The Ovalle surname originates, at least the Michoacan Ovalles, with Diego del Valle, an early settler of Guayarangueo (what later became known as Valladolid and then Morelia). I don't have much information about Diego del Valle other than he fathered two daughters, Felipa de Ovalle cc Sebastian de Torres and Maria de Ovalle cc Diego Sanchez de Mora. Most of the Michoacan Ovalles in and around Tangancicuaro, Jacona, Tlazazalca, etc. are descended from Diego Sanchez de Mora and Maria de Ovalle. I have Diego Sanchez de Mora (The elder) cc Maria de Ovalle as being the parents of:

  • Juana de Mora y Ovalle cc Tomas de Ayala
  • Andres Jimenez de Magana cc Isabel de Mora y Ovalle
  • Diego Sanchez de Mora (The Younger) cc Josefa de Pena
  • Maria de Ovalle cc Juan de Torres Guerrero (These are the suspected parents of Juan de Torres Guerrero and Esteban de Torres Guerrero)



    • The above information was pieced together using at least these documents:

  • Escriptura de censo (Guayarangueo, Michoacan) - 1568
  • Asunto de tierras (Diego Sanchez de Mora - el mozo menciona a Tomas de Ayala - su cunado, etc.) Valladolid, Michoacan - 1609
  • Partida de casamiento de Jose Jimenez Magana y Catalina Sarmiento y Torres Guerrero (Chilchota) - 11/18/1650 - (Se menciona que Jose y Catalina fueron primos y fueron dispensados)



    • Regards,

    Daniel Serna Valencia

    Published by dserna1 – Mon, 2019-10-28 13:12 | Permalink

    Comment

    I don't yet have any documentation that proves that Geronima de Liebana was the daughter of Alvaro Yanez Maciel and Isabel Orozco del Castillo. (It's a theory that she's their daughter, given the timeline, place, etc.) If I find something to prove it, I'll pass it along.

    Daniel

    Comment

    Thank you so much, Daniel!

    This all makes more sense now, and individuals are falling nicely into place - the time lines were just killing me! And thank you for sharing that land dispute - I’ve spent the last couple of days reading it, and I still haven’t finished, but it’s got a wealth of information on these families. Here’s my takeaway:

    First of all, the children of Juan Maciel Plancarte are (from images 445 & 504):

    - Alvaro Maciel cc Ysabel de Orozco
    - Lorensa de Torres cc Diego Magdaleno
    - Pedro Blancarte
    - Maria de Liebana cc Gregorio de Bejar
    - Francisca de Liebana cc Tomas de Ayala
    - Ana de Liebana cc Diego de la Mora
    - Geronima de Liebana cc Juan Asencio de Leon
    - Nicolas Maciel cc Geronima de Ayala
    - Agustin Maciel cc Ines de Morfin
    - Cristobal Blancarte (father of Gertrudis Blancarte cc Juan de Vallejo)

    Alvaro Yañez Garcia was the father of Juan Maciel Plancarte; he died before 25 Jan 1600, when Juan Maciel, as his executor, and as tutor y curador of his siblings, sold some lands to Francisco Martin Muñoz (img522).

    Information on Alvaro Yañez Garcia’s capellania is given on img502; the first capellan was his cuñado, Licenciado Pedro Blancarte; would this be the brother of his wife? This would give us a source for the “Plancarte/Blancarte” surname. And would they be children of Ana Hernandez viuda de Pedro Plancarte, who joined the cofradia de Nra Sra del Rosario on 14 Sep 1593? This would make sense, seeing how “Pedro” is a reoccurring name in these families.

    MARIA DE OROZCO & YSABEL DE OROSCO

    Licenciado Nicolas Maciel was son of Alvaro Maciel cc Ysabel de Orozco. On 26 Nov 1663, he appeared as a witness on the dispensa for his niece, Ysabel de Morfin, daughter of his sister, Anna de Liebana cc Antonio Rodriguez de Morfin, for her marriage to Melchor Valencia. The couple were at 4/4, descending from sisters, Maria & Ysabel de Orozco.

    In his statement, Nicolas Maciel says that “Maria de Orozco, great-grandmother of this witness and of Melchor Valencia, was mother of Maria de Orozco, grandmother of Melchor Valencia, and sister of Ysabel de Orozco, also grandmother of this witness, and that from Maria de Orozco was born Juana de Peña, mother of Melchor Valencia, and that from Ysabel de Orozco was born Ysabel de Orozco, mother of this witness and of Ana de Liebana, mother of Ysabel de Morfin”

    What’s interesting, is what he says about Maria de Orozco being his great-grandmother. As we know that his mother is daughter of her sister, Ysabel de Orozco, then the relationship would have to be through his father, Alvaro Maciel - which would mean that Alvaro was the 1st-cousin/once removed of his wife. But it also means that either Juan Maciel or Anna Garcia de Liebana was a child of Maria de Orozco. My guess is the latter, if Maria and Ysabel de Orozco are children of Geronimo de Orozco Liebana cc Ysabel del Castillo, as per Carlos Peredo’s post on 16 Sep 2017. Anyone?

    NICOLAS MACIEL

    Regarding his wife (or wives): married on 6 Jan 1665, in Zamora, were Juan Maciel and Anna de Aldana; their padrinos were Nicolas Maciel & doña Geronima de la Cueba, “padres del dho contrayente.”

    On 3 Apr 1703, dispensed were Miguel Maciel Betancur and Ana Maciel Blancarte, granddaughter of aforementioned Juan Maciel. This establishes that his father, Nicolas Maciel, was brother of Alvaro Maciel cc Ysabel de Orozco. So, he’s the same who was married to Geronima de Ayala. It’s possible that the 2 Geronima’s are different people, in which case, from the timelines of their children, he was married first to Geronima de la Cueva.

    NICOLASA DE LIEBANA cc JUAN BASILIO RUIZ DE VELASCO

    Regarding Nicolasa de Liebana: according to ElCapitanPaco in his post from 17 Oct 2013, she is sister of Josepha Asencio de Leon, as per the dispensa of Joseph Ygnacio Tello de Orozco cc Maria Dolores Lomelin. I haven’t seen this dispensa, since it’s misplaced on “Morelia” roll #0765283 (the roll is for 1673, though the dispensa is from 1773), so I can’t verify, but ElCapitanPaco is a thorough researcher.

    LORENSA DE TORRES cc DIEGO MAGDALENO

    Lorensa de Torres cc Diego Magdaleno is likely Lorensa de Oballe Liebana; in the suit, their daughter, Maria de Torres, was represented by her husband, Juan de Santiago. She is probably the same Maria de Oballe and he, Juan de Chavez, who petitioned marriage on 19 Feb 1661. Juan de Santiago and “Maria de Oballe” had a son who married Sebastiana del Castillo in May 1694, in Angamacutiro (the page with their son’s name on it is missing). If so, then “Torres,” along with “Oballe,” is a whole new surname to throw into this soup.

    Thanks again!
    Manny Díez Hermosillo

    Comment

    Hello,

    While re-reading some matrimonial information for "Melchor de los Reyes" and "Catalina de Murguia Ontiveros" I found a crucial clue that tells us that Geronima de Liebana, Juan Ascencio de Leon's wife, was a sister of Agustin Maciel and Pedro Plancarte, both sons of Alvaro Yanez Maciel and Isabel de Orozco del Castillo.

    First the matrimonial information itself:

    Informacion Matrimonial de Melchor de los Reyes y Catalina de Murguia Ontiveros (Tangancicuaro - July 10, 1670)

    While the information pertains to Melchor and Catalina, the documents details how there's a potential impediment between Melchor and Catalina given that Melchor had an illicit relationship with an illegitimate child of Juan de Zamora (uncle of Catalina). As part of the testimony, we have two key witnesses, Agustin Maciel and a former slave of Juan Ascencio de Leon. Agustin Maciel testifies that the, supposed, illegitimate child of Juan de Zamora could not have been a daughter of Juan de Zamora. Agustin further mentions that the mother of Juan de Zamora's illegitimate child had illicit relationships with multiple men in Tangancicuaro, Michoacan. This included Pedro de Plancarte, brother of Agustin Maciel:

    Link to Agustin Maciel's testimony

    ...hermano de este declarante llamado Pedro Blancarte...

    In closing, Agustin mentioned that he was 50 years old which puts his birth around 1620.

    The second crucial witness was a former slave of Juan Ascencio de Leon, Josefa Maciel. Link to Josefa Maciel's testimony

    ...Josefa Maciel mulata liberta esclava que fue de Juan Ascencio de Leon y residente en el pueblo de Tangancicuaro y nacida en el, en la casa de Alvaro Maciel... ...y la hallo metida con un hermano de la Ama de esta declarante llamado Pedro Plancarte...

    With the above information, we know that Agustin Maciel and Pedro Plancarte were brothers. We then add the testimony of a former slave of Juan Ascencio de Leon who mentions that Pedro de Plancarte was a brother to her "Ama", i.e. Juan Ascencio de Leon's wife (Geronima de Liebana). With that we have Agustin Maciel (born around 1620), Pedro Plancarte (already deceased by 1670), Geronima de Liebana (former slave master to Josefa Maciel) as siblings. Alvaro Maciel and Isabel de Orozco did indeed have two children named Pedro Plancarte and Agustin Maciel. Not to mention that Josefa (the former slave) was formerly owned by Alvaro Maciel. I think that with this information we can safely connect Geronima de Liebana as the daugher of Alvaro Maciel and Isabel de Orozco.

    Thoughts?

    Daniel Serna Valencia

    Comment

    Hello Daniel.

    When re-reading the document you are citing, I found that the witness Agustin Maciel, 50 years old, is said he was vecino de la villa de Zamora. I think he is the Agustin Maciel listed in marriage dispensation 1.2 in this other post. There is also a 1645 IM on him.

    There is another Pedro Plancarte, married to Nicolasa de Ovalle (I don´t know who the parents of this Pedro are), he died before the marriage of his son Juan Plancarte (Taramécuaro, 26 May 1662. Images 153 and 154 of 687).

    May these Agustin and Pedro be the siblings of Geronima - and Alvaro and Maria, the wife of Gregorio Bejar)?

    Comment

    Good catch Ruben,

    Yes, it's possible that I might be one generation ahead with regards to the parents of these siblings. (Alvaro & Isabel vs. Juan Maciel Plancarte & Ana Garcia de Liebana). I hope we're able to turn up more clues to identify the parents. We can safely say that the parents of these siblings are one of the previously mentioned couples.

    Thanks,

    Daniel

    Introduction

    Published by dserna1 –
    Forums
    History, Culture and General Discussion

    Hello Primos/Saludos Primos!

    My name is Daniel Serna Valencia. I live out in California. On my mother's, our roots run deep into Jalisco.Here are the towns and surnames I'm researching:

    Comments

    Published by PaulAnthonyGon… – Mon, 2018-01-29 16:51 | Permalink

    Comment

    Hi Daniel,

    Do you know whether your Alcaraz family has any connection to the Alcaraz/Alexandre family of Jiquilpan, Mich?

    I'm descended from Maria Alcaraz of Jilquilpan married to Geronimo de Alexandre Villaroel (either grandson or greatgrandson of Bartolome de Alexandre & Isabel Villaroel of Patzcuaro, Mich.) I descend through their son, Joseph de Alexandre (Villaroel) who moved to Ocotlan, Jal. and married Juana Hurtado de mendoza (daughter of Juan Flores de Estrada)

    I've found that at least one confirmed daughter of Geronimo and Maria went mostly by the maternal surname as Juana Alcaraz. Juana and her husband, Joseph Castellanos, are padrinos to her sister's, Leonor, marriage to Juan Vargas Molina in 1720 in La Barca Jal. and is listed as Juana de Alexandre. (This makes me wonder if most of the female Alcaraz living in Poncitlan, Jal. in early 1700s are related to Geronimo de Alexandre & Maria Alcaraz since it was very rare for that area at that time.)

    Paul A. Gonzales

    P.S. I have a very strong connection to Ocotlan, Poncitlan, La Barca, and Jamay areas through my paternal side.

    Comment

    Hi Paul,

    What an amazing coincidence! About 2-3 days ago I stumbled across the dispensa matrimonial (From the archives of Casa Morelos, archivo del antiguo Obispado de Michoacan) between Geronimo de Alexandre Villarroel y Velasquez and Maria de Alcaraz! We absolutely share a common ancestor via the Alcaraz line!

    Maria de Alcaraz cc Geronimo de Alexandre Villarroel y Velasquez was the sister of Antonia de Oceguera cc Juan Flores de Estrada, my 8th great-grandparents. The sisters were daughters of Pedro Ruiz de Alcaraz and Leonor de Oceguera, my 9th great-grandparents. I know this for a fact given this dispensa matrimonial as it tells us Maria de Alcaraz's parents:

  • Dispensa Matrimonial de Geronimo de Alexandre Villarroel y Maria de Alcaraz



    • Geronimo de Alexandre Villarroel y Velasquez married twice, the first time to Ana de Alcocer (Daughter of Diego de Alcocer and Tomasina de Espinosa). The second time with Maria de Alcaraz.

    You are indeed right in that Geronimo de Alexandre Villarroel y Velasquez was the grandson of Bartolome de Alexandre and Isabel de Villarroel. From what I've found in the archives, the Alexandre family tree looks like this:

  • Pedro de Alexandre (b. Sevilla, Andalucia, Espana) cc Ana Perez Navarro
  • Bartolome de Alexandre (b. Sevilla, Andalucia, Espana, d. 1625 Patzcuaro, Michoacan, Mexico) cc Isabel de Villarroel
  • Geronimo de Alexandre Villarroel cc Isabel Velasquez (Daughter of Juan Fernandez cc Ana Vasquez)
  • Geronimo de Alexandre Villarroel cc Maria de Alcaraz (2nd marriage)



    • Here are some links that back up some of the above information:

  • 1625, Patzcuaro - Fundacion de Capellania, fundada por Isabel de Villarroel a nombre de su esposo Bartolome de Alexandre
  • 1606, Patzcuaro - Partida de bautizmo de Geronimo de Alexandre Villarroel
  • 1662, Zirahuen - Informacion Matrimonial de Geronimo de Alexandre Villarroel y Velasquez y Ana de Alcocer
  • 1670, Tinguindin - Dispensa Matrimonial (Por afinidad) entre Geronimo de Alexandre Villarroel y Velasquez & Maria de Alcaraz



    • Hope this helps,

    Daniel Serna Valencia

    Comment

    Since I manage several trees which one are you referring to, Daniel?

    Paul Gomez
    Sent from my iPhone

    > On Jan 30, 2018, at 11:58 AM, themexican@outlook.com wrote:
    >
    > Hi Paul, What an amazing coincidence! About 2-3 days ago I stumbled across
    > the dispensa matrimonial (From the archives of Casa Morelos, archivo del
    > antiguo Obispado de Michoacan) between *Geronimo de Alexandre Villarroel y
    > Velasquez* and *Maria de Alcaraz*! We absolutely share a common ancestor via
    > the *Alcaraz* line! *Maria de Alcaraz* cc *Geronimo de Alexandre Villarroel y
    > Velasquez* was the sister of *Antonia de Oceguera* cc *Juan Flores de
    > Estrada*, my 8th great-grandparents. The sisters were daughters of *Pedro
    > Ruiz de Alcaraz* and *Leonor de Oceguera*, my 9th great-grandparents. I know
    > this for a fact given this dispensa matrimonial as it tells us *Maria de
    > Alcaraz's* parents:
    > * Dispensa Matrimonial de Geronimo de Alexandre Villarroel y Maria de
    > Alcaraz [1]
    > *Geronimo de Alexandre Villarroel y Velasquez* married twice, the first time
    > to *Ana de Alcocer* (Daughter of *Diego de Alcocer* and *Tomasina de
    > Espinosa*). The second time with *Maria de Alcaraz*. You are indeed right in
    > that *Geronimo de Alexandre Villarroel y Velasquez* was the grandson of
    > *Bartolome de Alexandre* and *Isabel de Villarroel*. From what I've found in
    > the archives, the *Alexandre* family tree looks like this:
    > * Pedro de Alexandre (b. Sevilla, Andalucia, Espana) cc Ana Perez Navarro
    > * Bartolome de Alexandre (b. Sevilla, Andalucia, Espana, d. 1625 Patzcuaro,
    > Michoacan, Mexico) cc Isabel de Villarroel
    > * Geronimo de Alexandre Villarroel cc Isabel Velasquez (Daughter of Juan
    > Fernandez cc Ana Vasquez)
    > * Geronimo de Alexandre Villarroel cc Maria de Alcaraz (2nd marriage)
    > Here are some links that back up some of the above information:
    > * 1625, Patzcuaro - Fundacion de Capellania, fundada por Isabel de
    > Villarroel a nombre de su esposo Bartolome de Alexandre [2]
    > * 1606, Patzcuaro - Partida de bautizmo de Geronimo de Alexandre Villarroel
    > [3]
    > * 1662, Siraguen - Informacion Matrimonial de Geronimo de Alexandre
    > Villarroel y Velasquez y Ana de Alcocer [4]
    > * 1670, Tinguindin - Dispensa Matrimonial (Por afinidad) entre Geronimo de
    > Alexandre Villarroel y Velasquez & Maria de Alcaraz [5]
    > Hope this helps! Daniel Serna Valencia
    >
    > [1] https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KPLH-Q?i=441&wc=3NTX-T…
    > [2] https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-1M9T-T3?i=134&cc=1883388&c…
    > [3] https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-2LS5-HG?i=28&cc=1883388
    > [4] https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5V96-4P?i=1396&wc=3NYH…
    > [5] https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KPLH-Q?i=441&wc=3NTX-T…
    >

    Read full comment ➜

    Comment

    Daniel,

    Wow! That's amazing! I did not expect this treasure trove of information. Part of me was beginning to wonder if I would find who Geronimo's parents were, much less to find his marriage records and Maria's parents. I find the Alexandre family fascinating! A once very wealthy and renowned family that seems to have eventually faded to relative obscurity.

    Did you know that Geronimo de Alexandre and Maria de Alcaraz are in the 1683 Padron of Jiquilpan, Mich? They are listed twice. Once in the household of Pedro de Alcaraz & Leonor de Oceguera (familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-D9G4-C) and by themselselves with a single servant/slave (familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-D9LD-K).

    Thank you for the new information,
    Paul A. Gonzales

    Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Mon, 2017-05-22 17:41 | Permalink

    Comment

    To Daniel Serna Valencia,

    Here is more information from my book mygenes2000 as it connects to your wife.

    I) Don Fabian Martinez and Cathalina de Borja are the parents of Maria Martínez de Borja

    II) Maria Martinez de Borja and Gonzalo Antúnez Yáñez, Portuguese, familiar of the Holy Office. The hacienda that Gonzalo owned was a big part of Mexican political history as Lazaro Cardenas made it the third largest ejido in Mexico in the mid to late 1950's. It also has been in the news lately for other reasons that have to do with drug trafficking and gun battles. Gonzalo and Maria are the parents of Ana de Antúnez y Borja.

    III) Ana de Antúnez y Borja and Captain Don Alonso Rodriguez Martos (have his parents names, but still verifying this info as the parents surnames are completely different from his surname). Don Alonso and Ana are the parents of Antonia Antúnez de Borja (Borgia) who was left orphaned and was raised in the Convent of Santa Catalina de Sena in the city of Valladolid.

    IV) Antonia Antúnez de Borja (Borgia) married Don Mathías de Villaseñor Cervantes y Nuñez del Rincon.

    So your wife's line would look like this:

    1). Your wife
    2). Your wife's parents
    3). Your wife's paternal grandparents
    4). Maria Soledad Castaneda & Jose Maria Gutierrez
    5). Juan Jose Castaneda & Felicitas Chavez
    6). Juan Jose Castaneda & Maria Josefa Mendez
    7). Maria Felipa Munguia & Jose Manuel Cruz Castaneda
    8). Miguel Munguia & Eufracia Rosalia Valdez
    9). Maria Antonia Theresa de Coria y Villasenor & Juan "Carlos" Munguia Maciel
    10) Antonia Villaseñor y Antúnez and Antonio Feliz Coria Peralta Rincon

    11) Antonia Rodriguez Antúñez de Borgia (Borja) and Matias Villaseñor Cervantes y Nuñez del Rincon

    12) Ana de Antúnez y Borja and Captain Don Alonso Rodriguez Martos
    13) Maria Martinez de Borja and Gonzalo Antúnez Yáñez, Portuguese

    14) Don Fabian Martinez and Cathalina de Borja

    Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2017-04-01 11:13 | Permalink

    Comment

    Dear Daniel Serna Valencia,

    I messed up and repeated a generation when typing, #10 and 11 are the same people. In one tree the line continues with Antonio Feliz Coria-Peralta Rincon parents and in the other it continues with Antonia Villaseñor's parents.

    10). Antonio Feliz de Coria-Peralta & Antonia de Villasenor
    11). Antonia Villaseñor and Antonio Feliz Coria Peralta Rincon

    This is how it should have been typed.

    1). Your wife
    2). Your wife's parents
    3). Your wife's paternal grandparents
    4). Maria Soledad Castaneda & Jose Maria Gutierrez
    5). Juan Jose Castaneda & Felicitas Chavez
    6). Juan Jose Castaneda & Maria Josefa Mendez
    7). Maria Felipa Munguia & Jose Manuel Cruz Castaneda
    8). Miguel Munguia & Eufracia Rosalia Valdez
    9). Maria Antonia "Teresa" de Coria y Villasenor & Juan "Carlos"Munguia Maciel
    10). Antonio Feliz Coria- Peralta Rincon and Antonia Villaseñor

    11). Alonso Coria Lomelin and Ana Nuñez Hidalgo y Fernandez del Rincon
    12). Catalina Lomelin and Manuel Coria-Peralta

    13). Luis Lomelin (Luciano Lomellini) and Maria Olmo

    1). Your wife
    2). Your wife's parents
    3). Your wife's paternal grandparents
    4). Maria Soledad Castaneda & Jose Maria Gutierrez
    5). Juan Jose Castaneda & Felicitas Chavez
    6). Juan Jose Castaneda & Maria Josefa Mendez
    7). Maria Felipa Munguia & Jose Manuel Cruz Castaneda
    8). Miguel Munguia & Eufracia Rosalia Valdez
    9). Maria Antonia Theresa de Coria y Villasenor & Juan "Carlos" Munguia Maciel
    10) Antonia Villaseñor and Antonio Feliz Coria Peralta Rincon

    11). Matias Villaseñor Cervantes y Nuñez del Rincon and Antonia Rodriguez Antúñez de Borgia (Borja)
    12) Capitan Francisco de Villaseñor Cervantes y Patiño and Ines Nuñez Hidalgo del Rincon
    13). Juan de Villaseñor Cervantes y Guesca and Maria Patiño de Herrera y Pereyra

    14). Francisco de Villaseñor y Cervantes and Leonor de Guesca (Gasca) y Reus
    15). Conquistador Juan Villaseñor-Tovar y Orosco (born 1500) and Catalina Cervantes de Andrada Lara

    16) Diego de Burgos Tovar (Villaseñor) (born prior 1455) and his second wife Guiomar Horosco y Sandoval (born prior 1481)

    17). Diego de Villaseñor y Tovar (born between 1405-1420) Isabel de Villaseñor (Daughter of Alfonso Villaseñor)

    18). comendador Juan Villaseñor Seron (Serone/Seronis) married to Elvira de Tovar y Enriquez de Castilla

    19). Diego Villaseñor alcaide de Segovía married to Maria Serones (Seron)

    20). Fernan A. Villaseñor marries Aldonza Gutierrez de Tapia

    21) Elvira Osórez and Alfonso F. Villaseñor

    22). Fernando Osórez maestro de Santiago, d. 1383)

    Sorry,
    Rick A. Ricci

    Published by Steve G. Apodaca – Fri, 2017-03-31 21:50 | Permalink

    Comment

    Daniel:

    I do have several lines in Ameca, and near Acatlan de Juarez and Jocotepec, primarily in Zacoalco de Torres and Santa Catarina.

    I did notice you mention Guachinango, Mascota, as well as the surname Curiel. I have lots of ancestors in these areas. The surnames that I have from Mascota, Guachinango, and/or Atenguillo are: Curiel, Peña, Diaz, Cazarez, Chavez, Topete, Macedo, Landeros, Lopez, Lozano, Gil, Sanchez, Castellon, Fregoso, Aguiar, Jimenez, Amaral. If you have any of these in your family tree, we are probably related.

    As far as Curiel, the earliest document I found on a direct ancestor is the matrimonial dispensation of Domingo Curiel and Gertrudis Gil. They married around march 1758 in Mascota. They lived in San Pablo, near Atenguillo.

    If any of these names sound familiar, let me know. I hope we can share and compare some data.

    Saludos

    Steve in NC

    Comment

    Hi Steve,

    The earliest Curiels I have are the following:

    Jose Serapio Curiel cc Maria Teodocia Encarnacion (my 5x gg-parents), they had the following children, that I've been able to find. (All were from Mascota, Rancho de Potrillos):

    Jose de Jesus Curiel (b. 1830) cc Prudencia Hernandez
    Serapio de Jesus Curiel (b. 1831) cc Maria Avalos, cc Francisca Mesa
    Leonides Curiel (b. 1833) cc Maria Justa Pastora Mercado (my 4x gg-parents)

    From Mascota, they moved to Cuale and from there they made their way to Talpa. Given the lack of records for Mascota in the 1700s, I've reached a brick wall with this line.

    I do have at least a couple of lines of Fregoso, one mine and one is my wife's:

    My Fregoso line:

    Me
    My Parents
    My Grandparents
    Otilio Rodriguez cc Maria del Carmen Portillo (2nd marriage)
    Emgidio Rodriguez cc Sixta Ramos
    Jose Benito de Jesus Ramos cc Paulina Robles
    Pedro Ramos cc Guadalupe Lugarda Fregoso
    Paulino Maria Fregoso cc Andrea Josefa Ocampo
    Jose Antonio Fregoso cc Juana Quiteria Gomez Garcia
    Sebastian Fregoso cc Maria de Arechiga
    Juan Fregoso cc Angela Enrriquez Beltran
    Domingo Fregoso cc Francisca Sanchez Conde
    Leonardo Fregoso cc Bernardina Farfan

    My wife's Fregoso line:

    My wife
    Her parents
    Her grand-parents
    Maria Maclovia Santillan cc Manuel Salazar
    Jose Jesus Santillan cc Francisca Fregoso
    Leonardo Martin Fregoso cc Manuela Casian
    Felipe de Jesus Fregoso cc Maria Encarnacion Diaz
    Maria Gertrudis Fregoso cc ??? She had Felipe out of wedlock (hijo natural)
    Juan Angel Fregoso cc Antonia Rafaela Pacheco
    Domingo Fregoso cc Beatriz de Hijar
    Juan Fregoso cc Angela Enrriquez Beltran
    Domingo Fregoso cc Francisca Sanchez Conde
    Leonardo Fregoso cc Bernardina Farfan

    I'm going to guess that your Fregoso ancestors intersect with one of both of ours. :-) Do they?

    Best,

    Daniel Serna Valencia

    Published by Steve G. Apodaca – Fri, 2017-03-31 22:54 | Permalink

    Comment

    Indeed, I have also had a hard time with my Mascota ancestors. The earliest records were burned during the Reforma War, and I have to go through the marriage dispensations in Guadalajara to find clues about my ancestors. Luckily, lots of families in the area intermarried, and that's how I've been able to extend my family tree in that region.

    Indeed, we are related through our Fregoso line this way:

    Me
    My parents
    Maria Luisa Gomez, married Arnulfo Apodaca
    Elena Curiel, married Urbano Gomez
    Maria de Jesus Peña, married Ygnacio Curiel
    Efren Peña, partnered Pantaleona Cazarez
    Maria Eleuteria Topete, married Jose Maria Peña
    Rudecindo Topete, married Maria Josefa Curiel
    Juana Maria Fregoso, married Santiago Rafael Topete
    Simon Thadeo Fregoso, married Maria Margarita Barrera (or Barreda)
    Domingo Fregoso, married Beatriz de Hijar Bracamonte
    Juan Fregoso, married Angela Enrriquez Beltran
    Domingo Fregoso, married Francisca Sanchez Conde

    I've been able to find my last Fregoso ancestors through the matrimonial dispensation of Juan Flores de Arechiga and Juana Henrriquez Fregoso, daughter of Juan Fregoso. However, I have not been able to connect to Leonardo Fregoso and Bernardina Farfan. Another member from the forum told me that Leonardo was the father of Domingo, but I have not been able to find an original document that connects them. How did you determine that relationship?

    Also, I wonder if you have info about Leonardo's children from his other marriage (Chavez). I have Chavez Fragoso ancestors from Aguascalientes, but I just haven't been able to connect with Leonardo, yet.

    Comment

    Steve,

    In an old Nuestros Ranchos post, I found the following post by Guillermo Tovar de Teresa:

    http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19241?page=1
    ================================================================
    Contenido del testamento de Leonardo Fregoso
    Submitted by gmotovar@prodig... on Sun, 2011-02-20 18:00.
    Por equivocación, creo que envié otro datos dirigidos a un investigador de Granada, quien me pidió ayuda para situar al Tesorero Alonso de Mérida (1539-1550).

    Pero, lo de Leonardo Fregoso consiste en lo siguiente:

    -El testamento de encuentra en el AIPEJ, ante el protocolo de Juan Sedano, volumen V, folios 59 fte hasta 62 fte.

    -Dice haber sido casado dos veces. La primera con Ana de Chávez, con quien tuvo a Pedro de Chávez Fregoso.

    -La segunda con Bernardina Farfán, con quien hubo y procreó a Domingo (de treinta años, marido de Francisca Sánchez Conde); a Leonardo Fregoso; a tres monjas profesas del Convento de Santa Maria de Gracia de Guadalajara, de nombre Bernardina de Santa Clara, Juliana de San Leonel y Maria de Santa Ursula y, por último, a Gerónima de la Cueva, casada con Francisco de Velasco y Temiño. Yo desciendo de Domingo y de Gerónima.

    -Entre sus bienes menciona una hacienda de moler metales en el Real de Santiago, jurisdicción de las Minas de Ostotipac.

    -El testamento se halla fechado el 2 de julio de 1635.

    -Existe en el AGIS, un documento que nos lo muestra como un gran maestro en el arte de amalgamación de metales, al modo de Bartolomé de Medina, cuando recibe un reconocimiento del Rey Felipe II.

    Espero que esto te sirva y me da mucho gusto compartirlo contigo, que para eso estamos, para servir a los miembros de nuestra comunidad.

    Saludos

    Guillermo Tovar de Teresa
    ===========================================================

    Daniel Serna Valencia

    Comment

    My 4th great-grandfather -Paulino Maria Fregoso Gomez
    -Joseph Bernardino Fregoso de Ocampo (1782 - )

    Maria De Jesus Fregoso Gomez (1818 - )

    Maria Francisca Patiño Fregoso (1845 - )

    Jose De Jesus Gomez Patiño (1873 - )

    Remigia Gomez Perez (1918 - )

    J.Ignacio Anaya Gomez and me .

    Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Fri, 2017-03-31 21:24 | Permalink

    Comment

    1). Your wife
    2). Your wife's parents
    3). Your wife's paternal grandparents
    4). Maria Soledad Castaneda & Jose Maria Gutierrez
    5). Juan Jose Castaneda & Felicitas Chavez
    6). Juan Jose Castaneda & Maria Josefa Mendez
    7). Maria Felipa Munguia & Jose Manuel Cruz Castaneda
    8). Miguel Munguia & Eufracia Rosalia Valdez
    9). Maria Antonia Theresa de Coria y Villasenor & Juan "Carlos" Munguia Maciel
    10). Antonio Feliz de Coria-Peralta & Antonia de Villasenor
    11). Antonia Villaseñor and Antonio Feliz Coria Peralta Rincon

    12). Matias Villaseñor Cervantes y Nuñez del Rincon and Antonia Rodriguez Antúñez de Borgia (Borja)
    13). Capitan Francisco de Villaseñor Cervantes y Patiño and Ines Nuñez Hidalgo del Rincon
    14). Juan de Villaseñor Cervantes y Guesca and Maria Patiño de Herrera y Pereyra

    15). Francisco de Villaseñor y Cervantes and Leonor de Guesca (Gasca) y Reus
    16). Conquistador Juan Villaseñor-Tovar y Orosco (born 1500) and Catalina Cervantes de Andrada Lara

    17). Diego de Burgos Tovar (Villaseñor) (born prior 1455) and his second wife Guiomar Horosco y Sandoval (born prior 1481)

    18). Diego de Villaseñor y Tovar (born between 1405-1420) Isabel de Villaseñor (Daughter of Alfonso Villaseñor)

    19). comendador Juan Villaseñor Seron (Serone/Seronis) married to Elvira de Tovar y Enriquez de Castilla

    20). Diego Villaseñor alcaide de Segovía married to Maria Serones (Seron)

    21). Fernan A. Villaseñor marries Aldonza Gutierrez de Tapia

    22). Elvira Osórez and Alfonso F. Villaseñor

    23). Fernando Osórez maestro de Santiago, d. 1383)

    1). Your wife
    2). Your wife's parents
    3). Your wife's paternal grandparents
    4). Maria Soledad Castaneda & Jose Maria Gutierrez
    5). Juan Jose Castaneda & Felicitas Chavez
    6). Juan Jose Castaneda & Maria Josefa Mendez
    7). Maria Felipa Munguia & Jose Manuel Cruz Castaneda
    8). Miguel Munguia & Eufracia Rosalia Valdez
    9). Maria Antonia "Teresa" de Coria y Villasenor & Juan "Carlos"Munguia Maciel
    10). Antonio Feliz de Coria-Peralta & Antonia de Villasenor
    11). Antonia Villaseñor and Antonio Feliz Coria Peralta Rincon

    12). Antonio Feliz Coria- Peralta Rincon and Antonia Villaseñor

    13). Alonso Coria Lomelin and Ana Nuñez Hidalgo y Fernandez del Rincon
    14). Catalina Lomelin and Manuel Coria-Peralta

    15). Luis Lomelin (Luciano Lomellini) and Maria Olmo

    Rick A. Ricci

    Comment

    My wife and I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to compile such a treasure trove of genealogical info! We're still amazed at how, with your help, we've been able to find ancestors that tie us back to old country.

    Thanks again and we look forward to your book!

    Gracias Primo!

    Daniel Serna Valencia

    Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Fri, 2017-03-31 10:32 | Permalink

    Comment

    Dear Daniel,
    Here are two more lines.

    7mo Bisabuelos: Antonia Villaseñor and Antonio Coria Peralta Rincon

    -8vo Bisabuelos: Matias Villaseñor Cervantes y Nuñez del Rincon and Antonia Rodriguez Antúñez de Borgia (Borja)
    -9no Bisabuelos: Capitan Francisco de Villaseñor Cervantes y Patiño and Ines Nuñez Hidalgo del Rincon
    -10mo Bisabuelo: Juan de Villaseñor Cervantes y Guesca and Maria Patiño de Herrera y Pereyra

    -11mo Bisabuelo: Francisco de Villaseñor y Cervantes and Leonor de Guesca (Gasca) y Reus
    -12vo Bisabuelo: Conquistador Juan Villaseñor-Tovar y Orosco (born 1500) and Catalina Cervantes de Andrada Lara

    13) Bisabuelos: Diego de Burgos Tovar (Villaseñor) (born prior 1455) and his second wife Guiomar Horosco y Sandoval (born prior 1481)

    14) Bisabuelos: Diego de Villaseñor y Tovar (born between 1405-1420) Isabel de Villaseñor (Daughter of Alfonso Villaseñor)

    15) Bisabuelos: comendador Juan Villaseñor Seron (Serone/Seronis) married to Elvira de Tovar y Enriquez de Castilla

    16) Bisabuelos: Diego Villaseñor alcaide de Segovía married to Maria Serones (Seron)

    17) Bisabuelos: Fernan A. Villaseñor marries Aldonza Gutierrez de Tapia

    18) Bisabuelos: Elvira Osórez and Alfonso F. Villaseñor

    19) Bisabuelo: Fernando Osórez maestro de Santiago, d. 1383)

    /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    -7mo Bisabuelos: Antonio Coria- Peralta Rincon and Antonia Villaseñor

    -8vo Bisabuelos: Alonso Coria Lomelin and Ana Nuñez Hidalgo y Fernandez del Rincon
    -9no Bisabuelos: Catalina Lomelin and Manuel Coria-Peralta

    -10mo Bisabuelo: Luis Lomelin and Maria Olmo

    Rick A. Ricci

    Published by stephmartinez316 – Fri, 2017-03-31 11:26 | Permalink

    Comment

    hi daniel my name is stephanie martinez but my family members call me steph for short. i see that you are working on family members in your tree by last name of gutierrez and or maldonaldo. my grandfathers sister back then had married a charles gutierrez and her name was juaquina martinez. also, maldonaldos come through my line of family as follows for ex:Petra Maldonado (1862 - 1894)
    2nd cousin 4x removed
    Maria Diega Candelas
    mother of Petra Maldonado
    Maria Feliciana Martinez (1821 - )
    mother of Maria Diega Candelas
    Rafael Martinez (1801 - )
    father of Maria Feliciana Martinez
    Mamerto Martinez
    son of Rafael Martinez
    Serapio Martinez (1825 - )
    son of Mamerto Martinez
    José Maria Martinez (1849 - 1909)
    son of Serapio Martinez
    Cresencio Martinez (1893 - 1974)
    son of José Maria Martinez
    John Coronado Martinez (1931 - 1994)
    son of Cresencio Martinez

    rick ricci has been helping me alot and he is very knowledgable as well as george fulton and others.

    Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Fri, 2017-03-31 09:05 | Permalink

    Comment

    Dear Daniel Serna Valencia,

    I mistakenly wrote "Jose Refugio Ochoa" when I meant to write "Maria Refugio Ochoa" as your wife's great great grandmother. She was the daughter of Jose María Ochoa Mojica

    We know Juan Merlo's maternal grandparents but one source names his mother on one page and then a few pages later names her sister as his mother.
    We know Martin Alfonso Merlo's ancestry as I had already studied this line many years ago when researching other possible ancestors.

    Martin Alfonso Merlo.
    Juan Merlo el Bravo and Guiomar Ulloa Yanez (born about 1430)
    Juana Merlo Ulloa (b.1448) and Gonzalo Pantoja Portocarrero
    Pedro Pantoja-Portocarreo(b. Abt 1468)and Catalina Rodriguez
    juan Pantoja-Portocarrero (b.abt.1490) and Maria de la Pena
    Catalina Pantoja Pena Ulloa (born about 1515) and Alonso De la Cueva Mendoza
    Bernardina Hurtado de Mendoza Pantoja Ulloa (born about 1533) and Gonzalo nunez de Sotomayor
    Juana Nuñez de Sotomayor( born about 1555) and Diego Ochoa de Garibay
    Diego Ochoa Garibay y Nuñez Sotomayor and Juana Bejines Romero
    Nicolas Ochoa Garibay y Bejines Romero and María Jiménez Palomino y Lupiana
    José Ochoa Garibay y Jimenez Lupiana and María Ana Gutierrez de Robles y Esqueda
    Bonifacio Ochoa Garibay y Gutierrez de Robles and Gertrudis de Coria Villaseñor
    Leonardo Ambrosio Ochoa Garibay y Coria Villaseñor and María Josefa Jiménez M.
    Francisco Tomas Ochoa Garibay y Jimenez and María Josepha Mojica
    Jose María Ochoa Mojica, he had at least two wives
    Maria Refugio Ochoa and Ramon Gutierrez
    Jose María Gutierrez and María Soledad Castaneda
    You wife's paternal grandparents
    Your wife's parents
    Your wife

    Rick A. Ricci

    Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Thu, 2017-03-30 19:09 | Permalink

    Comment

    I descend from Bernarda de Coria-Peralta Lomelin, a great paternal aunt of your ancestor of Gertrudis Coria Lomelin y Villaseñor. I am also related through the Villaseñor because Bernarda's husband is Jose Villaseñor y Figueroa who is related to Gertrudis's mother, Antonia Vilaseñor y Borgia.

    I have done much work on the Coria-Peralta and Villaseñor family trees. Some of the work I have posted here on Nuestrosranchos. Those posts are more recent. The Pantoja-Portocarrero ancestry is Juana Nunez de Sotomayor's ancestry and that post was work I think I did a couple of years ago. The Portocarrero ancestry goes back many years and is a mix of of 'cristiano Viejo' and Jewish converts that converted way before the forced Jewish conversions that we are more familiar with. The Portocarrerro line does descend from a king of Leon.

    Juan Merlo el Bravo and Guiomar Ulloa Yanez (born about 1430)
    Juana Merlo Ulloa (b.1448) and Gonzalo Pantoja Portocarrero
    Pedro Pantoja-Portocarreo(b. Abt 1468)and Catalina Rodriguez
    juan Pantoja-Portocarrero (b.abt.1490) and Maria de la Pena
    Catalina Pantoja Pena Ulloa (born about 1515) and Alonso De la Cueva Mendoza
    Bernardina Hurtado de Mendoza Pantoja Ulloa (born about 1533) and Gonzalo nunez de Sotomayor
    Juana nunez de Sotomayor( born about 1555) and Diego Ochoa de Garibay
    Diego Ochoa Garibay y Nuñez Sotomayor and Juana Bejines Romero
    Nicolas Ochoa Garibay y Bejines Romero and María Jiménez Palomino y Lupiana
    José Ochoa Garibay y Jimenez Lupiana and María Ana Gutierrez de Robles y Esqueda
    Bonifacio Ochoa Garibay y Gutierrez de Robles and Gertrudis de Coria Villaseñor
    Leonardo Ambrosio Ochoa Garibay y Coria Villaseñor and María Josefa Jiménez M.
    Francisco Tomas Ochoa Garibay y Jimenez and María Josepha Mojica
    Jose María Ochoa Mojica and María Dolores Villanueva
    Jose Refugio Ochoa and Ramon Gutierrez
    Jose María Gutierrez and María Soledad Castaneda
    You wife's paternal grandparents
    Your wife's parents
    Your wife

    Juan Merlo "el Bravo" is one of the greatest Knights of all time. He went to Germany to prove it. The date and event were recorded for all time when a giant earthquake hit on the same day of his winning challenge.

    Rick A. Ricci

    Comment

    Wow, that certainly takes my wife quite a few generations on that branch as well! Very exciting to say the least! Thank You.

    I will definitely read up on Juan Merlo "el Bravo"!

    While we're on the topic, I recently discovered that my wife and I share ancestors and thus the lineage you pointed out:

    Bernardina Hurtado de Mendoza Pantoja Ulloa (born about 1533) and Gonzalo Nunez de Sotomayor
    Luisa Hurtado de Mendoza and Diego de Zuniga y Villasirga
    Diego de Zuniga y Mendoza and Maria Cathalina
    Juana de Zuniga (hija natural) and Marcos de Navarette
    Francisco Ramon de Navarette and Cathalina de Aguirre
    Juana Maria Navarette and Luis Ponce
    Jose Eustaquio Ponce and Maria Agustina Rosa Padilla
    Jose Manuel Ygnacio Ponce and Maria del Carmen Guzman
    Jose Maria Rafael Ponce and Maria del Carmen Montes
    Jose Urbano Rafael Ponce and Florentina Guitron
    Honorato Ponce and Lorenza Munoz
    Miguel Ponce and Teofila Alonso
    Feliciano Ponce and Maria del Carmen Portillo
    My maternal grandparents
    My parents
    Myself

    One other tidbit. My wife's family has a second connection to the Coria-Peralta and Villaseñor via this line:

    Antonio Feliz de Coria-Peralta & Antonia de Villasenor
    Maria Teresa de Coria y Villasenor & Carlos Juan Munguia Maciel
    Miguel Munguia & Eufracia Rosalia Valdez
    Maria Felipa Munguia & Jose Manuel Cruz Castaneda
    Juan Jose Castaneda & Maria Josefa Mendez
    Juan Jose Castaneda & Felicitas Chavez
    Maria Soledad Castaneda & Jose Maria Gutierrez
    My wife's paternal grandparents
    My wife's parents
    My wife

    Daniel Serna Valencia

    Comment

    Dear Daniel,

    I recently helped another member of nuestroranchos with their family line. The line I was helping them with was the same branch as that last line that you gave me on your wife's paternal ancestry. The parents would be close to fifth cousins. I would have to pull his line and put it next to your wife's to see exactly how close the lines are.

    A Merlo family member is involved in a famous story that is considerered the Spanish 'Romeo and Juliet'. Juan Merlo was born in Spain but his father's family Portuguese. His father was a big shot in the court in Castilla but his grandfather's family was close to the Portuguese royalty.

    The ancestry doesn't stop there. I have many more names and stories that you will find interesting. It is all in my book that I haven't published yet.

    Thanks,
    Rick A. Ricci

    Published by 245luigi – Wed, 2017-03-29 20:06 | Permalink

    Comment

    I also am working on Vasquez de Mercado and I'm stuck on Juan Vasquez de Mercado and Ines Rangel de Acuna. It is my direct paternal line. I did do a Y-DNA test which confirms my direct paternal ancestor did come from the old world. I'm also originally from CA. Welcome to NR!

    Alex Mercado

    Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Thu, 2017-03-30 06:06 | Permalink

    Comment

    Dear Alex,

    Please provide more information if you want help on Juan Vasquez de Mercado and Ynes Rangel de Acuña. Who are their kids? What years are they likely to be alive? Where did they reside? Did they move around a lot or did they mainly stay in one or two places? Who were their padrinos in their kids baptisms? Do you have any specific information on them?

    There were different lines of descent that carried the Mercado Vasquez surname. There are Vasquez de Mercado or Mercado de Vasquez throughout Mexico.

    One of them was started when with Juan de la Cueva del Mercado, Señor de la Casa de la Cueva de Úbeda y doña Leonor de San Martín Vázquez de Acuña. They had a son named Juan de la Cueva Mercado Vasquez.

    From Spain to Fresnillo, Zacatecas. mexico

    A second line of Mercado Vasquez, or Vasquez de Mercado line originated with Lic. Ginés de Mercado y Inés Vázquez.

    They had a son named Gines de Mercado y Vasquez. This line of descent is the one that the Vasquez de Mercado from Fresnillo, Zacatecas, descend from.

    1). Lic. Ginés de Mercado ) y Inés Vázquez,

    2). Capitán Ginés Vázquez de Mercado (b. in Talavera, Spain, d. 1553, Juchipila) and Ana Vázquez de Tapia (d. Before husband as he is a widower in his later years) ), Ginés and his wife Ana were cousins.

    They had one son and three daughters.

    Your Juan Vasquez de Mercado that is married to Ynes Rangel de Acuña is most likely a descendant of one of these four siblings.

    Thanks,
    Rick

    Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Tue, 2017-03-28 23:40 | Permalink

    Comment

    Dear Daniel

    Welcome to the team. Some of the surnames you are researching are part of my family tree. One name that we share is Ochoa Garibay. Check out the old post of mine on Ochoa Garibay ancestors: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/23400

    I also have Valencia in my family tree. I descend from Maria Rita Valencia and Joseph Domingo Estrada.

    Maria Rita Valencia is the daughter of Lorenzo Valencia and Juana Gertrudis Maldonado (aka Gonzalez) ( daughter of Antonio Gonzalez and Petronila 'Petra' Gutierrez-Maldonado

    Lorenzo Valencia and Juana Gertrudis 'Petra' Maldonado are married in Ocotlan, Jalisco on 10/Dec/1736

    Lorenzo's parents are Nicolas Valencia and Josepha Martinez. So far that is the end of the road for my Valencia line. It was just the past week that discoverered Maria Rita Valencia's grandparents.

    FHL microfilm 280,856.

    Image 283 out of 474

    Lorenso Valencia
    mentioned in the record of Lorenso Valencia and Juana Getrudis Maldonado
    Name Lorenso Valencia son of Nicolas Valencia and Josepha Martinez
    Spouse's Name Juana Getrudis Maldonado daughter of Antonio Gonzalez and Petra Gutierrez Maldonado
    Event Date 10 Dec 1736
    Event Place Ocotlan,Jalisco,Mexico
    Citing this Record
    "Mexico Marriages, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCDH-J9D : 15 July 2015), Lorenso Valencia and Juana Getrudis Maldonado, 10 Dec 1736; citing Ocotlan,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ;

    Rick A. Ricci

    Comment

    Thanks for the warm welcome Rick and everyone else. Glad to be here.

    Rick, I did indeed view your most informative post and I shared it with my wife who was amazed(and thankful) at how far back you were able to trace back that lineage. On that branch my wife descends from Bonifacio de Ochoa-Garibay as follows:

    Bonifacio de Ochoa-Garibay y Gutierrez de Robles cc Gertrudis de Coria y Villasenor
    Leonardo Ambrocio de Ochoa-Garibay cc Josefa Jimenez y Maciel
    Francisco Thomas de Ochoa cc Maria Josefa Mojica
    Jose Maria Ochoa cc Maria Dolores Villanueva
    Maria Refugio Ochoa cc Ramon Gutierrez
    Jose Maria Gutierrez cc Maria Soledad Castaneda
    My wife's paternal grandparents
    My wife's parents
    My wife

    On the Valencia front, I'm intrigued to know that there was a Valencia family in Ocotlan. I wasn't aware of it until now. I'm always on the lookout for any Valencias in Jalisco to see if and how they are related to other Valencias in Jalisco and Michoacan. If I run across any info regarding Nicolas Valencia and Josepha Martinez in my searches, I'll let you know.

    Thank You,

    Daniel Serna Valencia

    Comment

    Dear Daniel,

    Thanks for offering to look out for Nicolas Valencia and Josepha Martinez. I am also related to you and your wife through other lines. I am related to you through the Velasco, Figueroa, Cervantes, Macias Valadez , Coria-Peralta Villaseñor, Lomelin, Sotomayor-Pantoja, Boccanegra,and others.

    I have done a lot of research on the Boccanegra, Coria-Peralta line, the Lomelin lines (both Carlo and Luis), Juana Nunez de Sotomayors line, and the Villaseñor Cervantes family and others that you are also researching. Some of the information I have posted. I am working hard at putting together a book soon, but I keep finding more information that I need to add.

    Remember to not believe all the postings on geni.com or geneanet as there are many mistakes in those postings.

    Thanks again,
    Rick A. Ricci

    Comment

    Daniel,

    It appears your wife and I are relatives thru these lines. I descend from D. Bonifacio de Ochoa y Garibay thru my great grandmother Da. Victoria Sánchez de Aldana. I would love to compare notes if you are interested.

    Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino

    Sent from my iPhone

    > On Mar 29, 2017, at 6:10 PM, "themexican@outlook.com" wrote:
    >
    > Thanks for the warm welcome Rick and everyone else. Glad to be here. Rick, I
    > did indeed view your most informative post and I shared it with my wife who
    > was amazed(and thankful) at how far back you were able to trace back that
    > lineage. On that branch my wife descends from Bonifacio de Ochoa-Garibay as
    > follows: Bonifacio de Ochoa-Garibay y Gutierrez de Robles cc Gertrudis de
    > Coria y Villasenor Leonardo Ambrocio de Ochoa-Garibay cc Josefa Jimenez y
    > Maciel Francisco Thomas de Ochoa cc Maria Josefa Mojica Jose Maria Ochoa cc
    > Maria Dolores Villanueva Maria Refugio Ochoa cc Ramon Gutierrez Jose Maria
    > Gutierrez cc Maria Soledad Castaneda My wife's paternal grandparents My
    > wife's parents My wife On the Valencia front, I'm intrigued to know that
    > there was a Valencia family in Ocotlan. I wasn't aware of it until now. I'm
    > always on the lookout for any Valencias in Jalisco to see if and how they are
    > related to other Valencias in Jalisco and Michoacan. If I run across any info
    > regarding Nicolas Valencia and Josepha Martinez in my searches, I'll let you
    > know. Thank You, Daniel Serna Valencia
    >

    Comment

    .
    I have many Valencia and they are from Chilchota Michoacan and some from Cotija and my line moved to Jalisco. Also the Munguia line. My Gr-grandmother Maria Merced Munguia married to Longino Gutierrez. I have taken her back to Juan Carlos Munguia and Teresa Coria. I see you have them back one more generation. Can you share where you found that record? My files are on Rootsweb.com and my file name is Mexico.
    Linda Castanon-Long
    longsjourney@yahoo.com

    Published by dcalonso – Tue, 2017-03-28 14:48 | Permalink

    Comment

    Daniel,

    i have people in fresnillo too but the records only go back so far. do you know where the records are before fresnillo's records are available in family search.

    Danny C. Alonso

    Comment

    Hi Danny,

    Unfortunately, I don't. I've looked, but, haven't found any other sources of pre-familysearch fresnillo records, beyond dispensas. I'm looking for info related to my Vazquez del Mercado ancestors.

    Best,

    Daniel Serna Valencia

    Francisco Antonio Gallaga Mandarte y Villaseñor(Juan de San Pedro Gallaga & Joaquina de Villaseñor)

    Published by SGarzaAceves –
    Forums
    Genealogy Research

    Good day.

    I am Sandra Garza Aceves, a new member. I am grateful for the opportunity to join the forum. It immensely helpful in my investigation and I am eager to learn more.

    Comments

    Published by Ruben Hdez – Mon, 2020-02-10 12:27 | Permalink

    Comment

    Welcome to Nuestros Ranchos, Sandra.

    Regarding your first question, Antonio Gallaga and Ana Maria Gallaga are siblings.

    According to the marriage record you are citing, Antonio Gallaga was Orig[inari]o del Pueblo de Guaniqueo.

    Ana Maria Gallaga was christened 11 May 1731 in la Parroquia de S[an]ta Maria de Uaniqueo. There is a heading at the top of the page that reads: ACTA de la Ylustre progenitora del Señor Cura Hidalgo: Ana Maria Gallaga.

    Regarding your second question, I think, the name of Antonio's wife in the marriage record is wrong. Maria Ynes is Maria de Jesus. According to the marriage record Maria "Ynes" was living in el Puesto de la Piedra Herrada, the same place cited in the marriage record of their daughter Maria Gertrudis.

    Two more christening records of children of Francisco Antonio Gallaga and Maria de Jesus de la Torre placing them in la Piedra Herrada:

    Name: Joseph Victor Santiago Gallaga
    Event Type: Baptism
    Event Date: 17 Aug 1766
    Event Place: San Francisco de Asís, Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico
    Father's Name: Antonio Francisco Gallaga
    Mother's Name: María de Jesús de la Torre

    Citing this Record
    México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979, database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK72-GHJY : 8 March 2018), María de Jesús de la Torre in entry for Joseph Victor Santiago Gallaga, 17 Aug 1766; citing Baptism, San Francisco de Asís, Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico, parroquias Católicas Jalisco (Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco); FHL microfilm 218,442.

    Name: Joseph Rafael Gallaga
    Event Type: Baptism
    Event Date: 14 Aug 1771
    Event Place: San Francisco de Asís, Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico
    Father's Name: Francisco Gallaga
    Mother's Name: María de Jesús de la Torre

    Citing this Record
    México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979, database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NFPV-SR5 : 8 March 2018), María de Jesús de la Torre in entry for Joseph Rafael Gallaga, 14 Aug 1771; citing Baptism, San Francisco de Asís, Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico, parroquias Católicas Jalisco (Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco); FHL microfilm 218,442.

    Besides, in the marriage record of their daughter Ana Maria, Francisco Antonio is listed Francisco Antonio Gallaga y Mandarte.

    La Villa de Zamora - Origins of the last name Martin de Liebano

    Published by Ruben Hdez –
    Forums
    Genealogy Research

    Hello forum.

    Comments

    Padre de Pila versus Padrino

    Published by Raramosa –
    Forums
    Genealogy Research

    Greetings,

    I know the following record is not from the area that we discuss on the forum but I still have a general question for the group.

    Comments

    Published by Ruben Hdez – Sat, 2020-02-08 10:00 | Permalink

    Comment

    Hello Rafael.

    There is no difference between "... fueron sus padrinos ..." and adding "... fueron sus padrinos que la/lo tuvieron de pila ...". It's just the way the priest was used to write the records. This very same sentence is in every record.

    The godfather's name is Juan Santos Lucero. (See how mision de Santa Clara is written in any record).

    Un cordial saludo.

    Salinas

    Published by superhorrible –
    Forums
    Genealogy Research

    HOla,

    Comments

    Published by Julio Salinas – Thu, 2020-02-06 21:41 | Permalink

    Comment

    Hola, tengo algunos datos sobre esta familia, me gustaría cruzar datos contigo. Saludos

    de Viana

    Published by superhorrible –
    Forums
    Genealogy Research

    Hola,

    Comments

    Published by Julio Salinas – Thu, 2020-02-06 19:08 | Permalink

    Comment

    Hola, tengo el famoso registro de matrimonio en fotografía así como los bautismos de dos hijos, por si te son de utilidad los pongo a tu disposición.

    Published by Joseph de Leon – Wed, 2019-09-04 18:40 | Permalink

    Comment

    I have 2 children for Catalina and Luis Salinas.

    Daughter Juana Trinidad Salinas married my 2nd cousin 6x removed Miguel de Escobedo on 30 Jun 1729 in Jerez, Zacatecas.

    Son
    Jose Salinas married Maria Rosalia de Escobedo in Jerez, Zacatecas about 1724.

    Joseph de Leon

    Published by superhorrible – Thu, 2019-09-05 10:15 | Permalink

    Comment

    Yes, I have the second child (Juana de la Trinidad Salinas de Biena).
    The only new piece of information that i have for that line is Luis Salinas and Catharina de Biana Garcia marriage on 27 aug 1687 in Colotlan (not in microfilm)
    source:
    1. Arturo Ramos Pinedo, Familias Antiguas de Tlaltenango (2010, Printed by Lulu, Boston, Massachusetts, USA. ), pag 150.

    The marriage has her parents, but not his.

    sus

    Pedro Gomez Garci Velasco

    Published by Enrique Gariba… –
    Forums
    Genealogy Research

    Hola a todos,
    Quería saber si ustedes tienen el dato de esta información que aparece en uno arbol de GENI respecto a este personaje del que ya se ha abordado hace años

    Church documents in indigenous languages?

    Published by meef98367 –
    Forums
    Genealogy Research

    Does anyone recall where in Mexico, in the early settlement days. that there were some documents in the churches serving indigenous people that were in the language of the Indians of that locality?

    Comments

    Published by alicebb – Sun, 2020-01-26 20:45 | Permalink

    Comment

    Hello Emily,I found some in Bautismos de Indios entries from 1609-1659 Huichapan, Hidalgo in a language other than Spanish.  It turns out to be Otomi.  Of course, there are Spanish words, as there probably weren't Otomi words that correspond to Spanish calendrical references.What's really interesting is that Baustimos de Espanoles 1612-1718 were also written in Otomi.  That, I really don't understand.Alice BB 

    On Sunday, January 26, 2020, 06:28:59 PM CST, Emilie Garcia wrote:

    Does anyone recall where in Mexico, in the early settlement days. that there were some documents in the churches serving indigenous people that were in the language of the Indians of that locality?  I know I saw them somewhere, but I don't remember where
    Emilie
    Port Orchard, WA

    Comment

    Yes, it was Otomi now that I recall; I just forgot the location. Thanks so much

    Emilie

    ________________________________
    From: Research on behalf of Alice Blake
    Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 7:34 PM
    To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
    Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Church documents in indigenous languages?

    Hello Emily,I found some in Bautismos de Indios entries from 1609-1659 Huichapan, Hidalgo in a language other than Spanish. It turns out to be Otomi. Of course, there are Spanish words, as there probably weren't Otomi words that correspond to Spanish calendrical references.What's really interesting is that Baustimos de Espanoles 1612-1718 were also written in Otomi. That, I really don't understand.Alice BB

    On Sunday, January 26, 2020, 06:28:59 PM CST, Emilie Garcia wrote:

    Does anyone recall where in Mexico, in the early settlement days. that there were some documents in the churches serving indigenous people that were in the language of the Indians of that locality? I know I saw them somewhere, but I don't remember where
    Emilie
    Port Orchard, WA

    Published by Angelina Markle – Sun, 2020-01-26 18:00 | Permalink

    Comment

    Now that you mention it … I thought I saw some in the older records in Mexico City. But I can’t be sure.

    > On Jan 26, 2020, at 4:28 PM, Emilie Garcia wrote:
    >
    > Does anyone recall where in Mexico, in the early settlement days. that there were some documents in the churches serving indigenous people that were in the language of the Indians of that locality? I know I saw them somewhere, but I don't remember where
    > Emilie
    > Port Orchard, WA

    The Cathe4dral del Senor del Santo Sepulcro

    Published by jospuen –
    Forums
    Genealogy Research

    Can someone point me in the right direction?

    Comments

    Published by gpf13 – Sun, 2020-01-26 11:08 | Permalink

    Comment

    I searched in Family Search in a number of ways, ie, location and key word. according to google this church is in Iztapalapa, which is located in the Distrito Federal. I found no entries for this Church or diocese.

    The Diocese of Iztapalapa was erected in 2019, out of the archdiocese of Mexico.

    The cathedral seems to have had a couple of other names ...Nuestro Señor de la Cuevita and Señor del Santo Sepulcro de Jerusalen.

    This Wikipedia article may be of help. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catedral_de_Iztapalapa

    This may also be helpful http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dizta.html

    There are some Family Search catalog entries for church is Iztapalapa, under different names than mentioned, which may be worth a look.

    Jaime Holcombe films

    Published by MariaCortez –
    Forums
    Genealogy Research

    Do we have a list of all the films that Jaime Holcombe contributed to familysearch.org? I have come across some, but I don't know if I've seen a comprehensive list.

    Maria

    Comments

    Published by arturoramos – Fri, 2006-04-07 08:06 | Permalink

    Comment

    Maria:

    Can you describe for us what is contained in these films that Jaime Holcombe contributed? Where did you run across them? in the familysearch.org database?

    Does anybody know how one goes about finding such contributions in the online database or from a family history center?

    Comment

    if you enter the batch number in the search field youget these results.
    These patron films are nothing but family group sheets submitted by
    members of the church.

    arturoramos wrote:

    >Maria:
    >
    >Can you describe for us what is contained in these films that Jaime Holcombe contributed? Where did you run across them? in the familysearch.org database?
    >
    >Does anybody know how one goes about finding such contributions in the online database or from a family history center?

    Comment

    Hello, Nuestros Ranchos. I recently joined NR and I’m learning to navigate the website and the vast information provided. If there is a list of Jaime Holcombe’s “films” out there, I have not been able to locate it. So decided to share a list I compiled.

    If anyone is still interested in looking at Holcombe’s Family Group Sheets, here are the films where they are located. He did not submit films. He sent in the old-style, horizontal-form Family Group Sheets. Each film has thousands of FGS submissions from LDS patrons. The sheets are listed by batch number for the year and date submitted. Each batch has about 50 sheets. These LDS films can be ordered for viewing at a Family History Center. You can easily find Holcombe’s entries in each film if you have a batch number.

    Film 1396254 (Batch F867915, F867916)
    Film 1396257 (Batch F868209, F868245, F868246, F868247)
    Film 1396258 (Batch F868325, F868326, F868327, F868339)
    Film 1396287 (Batch F867631, F868514)
    Film 1396289 (Batch F868767, F868768, F868769, F868822)
    Film 1396255 (Batch F868024, F868025, F868026, F868027)
    Film 1396260 (Batch F868513, F868515, F868527)
    Film 1396252 (Batch F867689)
    Film 1553960 (Batch F867345)

    After creating this list I found one more batch F869446, but do not have a film number for it. The majority of these batches have only submissions by Jaime Holcombe. About 1,000 sheets in all.

    I just checked FamilySearch to see if the films could be viewed online. No luck. But noticed that a “zero” has been inserted before the last number in the batches I did check. (e.g., Batch F867345 is listed as F8673405).

    This list was compiled ages ago and there may be FGSs that I’ve missed. Witness the orphan batch for which I have no film. Let us know if you find some more.

    Mary Lou Montagna

    Comment

    Hello Mary Lou Montagna,

    Do you happen to know the batch and film numbers for the Perez Templador family group sheets from Jaime Holcombe's collection?

    We met many years ago. You helped reenergize my research when I was ready to give it up.

    Thanks,

    Rick A Ricci

    Comment

    Hi, Rick. I'm still here and glad to see you are too. I made copies of all Jaime's "Los Altos" FGS (including the back when necessary) and for a very brief moment they were neatly organized alphabetically in five binders. That didn't last long because I began to pull them out here and there and put them in various files. Bad decision because now I'm not sure where some of them are. But the good news is that in the proper binder I found the FGS for Ignacio Antonio Perez Temblador cc Maria Teresa Muñoz de la Barba and nine of their children. It's the only one I found (his parents are not given) and I'll be happy to send you a scanned copy. Assume your email hasn't changed. FYI the batch number is F868769-010 in film 1396289. That "010" only means it was number 10 in that batch.

    Really good to hear from you.

    Mary Lou

    Comment

    Dear Mary Lou,

    It is very nice to hear from you. It has been a while since we have talked. My email has probably changed since it has been a while. I no longer need the Perez Temblador family worksheets as I have been informed that the Perez Gallo family did not originate from them. But it was in asking for these worksheets that Christopher provided the information I was looking for. And more. That line now connects to some other lines that I have done much research.
    I need to look for your phone number so I can get you up to date on my unfinished books. I owe you big time for your encouragement. Do you still meet in Orange County. I would like to see you face to face when you hear what I have been working on. I have discovered some info that we had looked for many years ago.

    Thanks again,

    Rick A. Ricci

    PS. I did the same thing with my Holcombe copies. I used to have all of them saved and organized in binders but over time I would pull individual sheets out and lend them out. I did not get all of them back so I no longer have the complete sets. I may go back to the library and scan them to a flash drive but that's going to take a long time. I also did not make all the copies. I would skip families that I did not know were related to me. It wasn't until later that I found out that they were also family. The Perez Temblador was one of the families that I ignored and that is why I thought that they possibly had a connection to the Perez Gallo.

    Comment

    Jaime Holcombe's family group sheets have most of the founding families in Los altos de Jalisco. He has even more families but I focused on my family lines when I downloaded his work.

    Munoz de la Barba, Munoz de Nava, Alvarez Tostado, Gonzalez de Hermosillo, Guttierrez, Casillas, franco, Perez , Romo de Vivar, De La Torre, Lomeli, Navarro, Rodriguez, Ibarra, Valdivia, Jimenez, Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza, Perez Gallo, Perez Temblador, and many more.

    R A Ricci

    Comment

    This is the film index I compiled in an effort to organize the gazillion Family Group Sheets that Jaime Holcombe submitted to LDS in the mid 1980s. The numbers at very top are the films. Immediately below that are the batch numbers. Each batch had about 50 FGSs. I do not have an alphabetical index. I don't know where my original index is, so I scanned an available copy. Will post the original whenever I find it. See: Holcombe FGS in my Dropbox. Two pages.

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yop1j3tqornd0xh/AABnVNtOvuDJtcuW0Gk5vgBHa?or…

    Mary Lou

    Comment

    Hi Mary Lou,

    I found two or three of them as attachments to trees on Ancestry.com. I believe I saved them to Lope Ruiz de Esparza on my tree. I can check. I would love to see them all. Does any Mormon church have a Family History Center or would I have to drive down to the big one in LA? I'm in the Bay Area now. If I can view them locally and they are open on Sundays, I'll go on Super Bowl Sunday. :)

    Thank you,

    Rachel

    Published by makas_nc – Thu, 2006-04-06 20:00 | Permalink

    Comment

    your message came through great. I don't know of such a list, but I know
    that Jaime Holcombe, Jr. applied for membership to the list, but has not
    replied yet to the requirements for subscription. hopefully he'll join
    the group and be able to answer your question. . .if he doesn't I'll
    send you his email address and you can ask and forward his answer to the
    group.

    thanks,

    joseph

    ps: you will need to resend your previous email to Josie as it didn't go
    through.

    MariaCortez wrote:

    >Do we have a list of all the films that Jaime Holcombe contributed to familysearch.org? I have come across some, but I don't know if I've seen a comprehensive list.
    >
    >Maria

    Comment

    Arturo,

    They are IGI entries such as this one:

    Messages:
    Family group record submitted by a member of the LDS Church. The record includes the submitter's name and address and names and relationships of family members. The address may be outdated. Some information is estimated. To find the record on the film, you must know the batch and sheet number.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Source Information:
    Batch Number: F867915
    Sheet: 003
    Source Call No.: 1396254 Type: Film

    This example above may be one contributed by the late Mr. Holcombe. I understand he contributed quite a bit to familysearch. It would be nice to have a list of all the films he contributed because he had all the families connected and all the individuals for a family would be found on the same film. Take a look at all the names on the above batch and you will see there are entries for Aguascalientes, Jalos., and Tepatitlan for all the connected members of a family on the same film. It's a real treasure.

    Joseph,

    Yes, I would be very interested in contacting Jaime Holcombe Jr. Thank you!

    Maria

    Sources for Old Books

    Published by rojasdelgado –
    Forums
    Genealogy Research

    Hello everyone,

    Comments

    Published by rojasdelgado – Sat, 2020-01-18 15:17 | Permalink

    Comment

    I'm sorry about the long links from previous post and how they appeared across the page, here are shorter links to same pages.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=V8wWAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA1-PR1&lpg=RA1-PR1&d…

    https://books.google.com/books?id=i-FDAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA597&lpg=PA597&dq=In…

    https://books.google.com/books?id=1utDAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA322&lpg=PA322&dq=Mo…

    https://books.google.com/books?id=63gazWSJHL0C&pg=PA279&lpg=PA279&dq=or…

    https://books.google.com/books?id=xypddg8RrUAC&pg=PA51&lpg=PA51&dq=cond…

    Assistance with reading parents names Re Francisco Suarez de Ibarra

    Published by 245luigi –
    Forums
    Genealogy Research

    Could a forum member please help me read the parents names of Francisco Suarez de Ibarra. The names are about halfway down the first page.

    Comments

    Comment

    Richard

    I connect to the ibarra family through the marriage of Geronimo Sanchez de Porras to Mariana Suarez de Ibarra. Her grandfather is Alferez Mayor Francisco Suarez de Ibarra. The furthest back I am now is the Luis Ibarra above.

    Comment

    Alex,

    Its possible but I don't have anything linking my Ibarras to Francisco at the moment. My Ibarras descend from Antonio de Ibarra and Maria de Escobar residents of Teocaltiche in the later 16th century and early 17th century. However, since it seemed like a lot of the early Ibarras were related I had looked into his family and did find an interesting potential connection. A descendant of Antonio's daughter Catarina named Francisca de Medina Arriola y Gomez married Juan Antonio Sanchez de Porras Ibarra the son of Geronimo Sanchez de Porras and Mariana Suarez de Ibarra.

    Also something interesting from Francisco Suarez's informaciones is that at the time he had been working as a notary for about 15 years and had worked I think for the Audencia in Granada. I wonder if that is where he was from or if he was just working there temporarily before making the move to Mexico? Its a fascinating family!

    Richard

    Comment

    Richard

    Thanks for the additional info. I do have Francisca de Medina Arriola y Gomez married Juan Antonio Sanchez de Porras Ibarra in my tree as well.

    Hopefully I can tie in Luis somewhere to these old Ibarra's.

    Alex

    Comment

    I may have some more information about Antonio de Ibarra and Maria Escobar from Teocaltiche.

    I was reading through Genealogias de Nochistlan by Jose Luis Vasquez y Rodriguez de Frias and on page 381 he transcribes a document dated 1616, which states that: "una merced original hecha por la Rl audiencia deste reyno a Alonso Martin residente en Teocaltiche, con una venta hecha al dho Sebastian Perez de Frias por Antonio de Ybarra hijo del dho Alonso Martin." Given the dates and location, it seems then that Antonio de Ibarra's father was Alonso Martin. I have not been able to find any other information about Alonso Martin and had to return the book before I could really go through it.

    However, I also found a reference online to a merced de tierras in 1571 to a Catalina de Ibarra. http://www.lanetaen.com.mx/?p=484
    I wonder if Antonio could have been the son of Catalina de Ibarra and Alonso Martin and chose to go with Ibarra because of its relative importance? Have you come across anything concerning Alonso Martin and Catalina de Ibarra?

    I also have read here and there that the Ibarras from Teocaltiche descend from Miguel de Ibarra, the conquistador and encomendero of Teocaltiche. Have you come across any actual documents that claim this relationship?

    Thanks in advance!

    Richard

    Surnames of abandoned children

    Published by sarge98 –
    Forums
    Genealogy Research

    In my research, I have encountered a baptism record that indicates a child (possibly my 3rd G-grandfather) was abandoned at the house of a woman in Guadalajara in 1781.

    COLONIA Y ALCOCER

    Published by jrefugioghermosillo –
    Forums
    Genealogy Research

    Hola prim@s,

    Here’s my work on another family who used the Alcocer surname, appearing in Mexico near the end of the 16th century.

    Comments

    Published by mralvarez314 – Tue, 2020-01-14 08:15 | Permalink

    Comment

    So, in a post last month, Rubén Hdez shared with us a link to an index of films found in the collections of the Universidad Michoacana de San Nicolás de Hidalgo. (Thank you Rubén!) Yesterday I was scanning the index and related films and I came across a request dated 29 July 1698 for permission to slaughter some 400 head of cattle (of 20,000) during the dry season on lands belonging to the hacienda de Corralejo (birthplace of Don Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla). If my reading of the document is correct, at that time, the hacienda de Corralejo was composed of three haciendas (Corralejo, Aramútaro, and Peralta), and all of them were owned by capitán Joseph de Alcocer y Bocanegra, who I think is likely the one Manny listed in his post as Capitán José Tomás de Alcocer y Bocanegra (b.1641).

    Published by maven200 – Mon, 2020-01-13 22:13 | Permalink

    Comment

    Hi manny,
    Great post. i really enjoy reading your posts. My favorite take away- “Quien adelante no mira, atrás se halla”: Ím going to share that tomorrow.
    I read through your post and couldn’t help but think this Leonor alcocer and descendants had to be connected to the alcocers we know came in 1520 and 1538- Beatriz, Francisca, Baltazar etc.

    I went through my notes and found one Alonso de Alcocer, son of Gutierre de Alcocer and Leonor de la Sal, hija de Juan de Sal y Isabel Fernandez. Alonso paso en 1566 a la nueva españa como criado del clérigo Pedro Moreno (pasajeros IV no. 4788). Gutierre alcocer was the son of Fernando Alcocer married to gracia de Prado (Pardo fam). Now Fernando is either brother or first cousin to Diego alcocer who is married to Blanca Núñez. Still figuring this out. my source is the Juan Gil books v. 3 under Alcocer pg 206.

    I know that this Alonso has diff parents but everything else is a good match so I thought I’d share just in case it sparks anything. Finally, Going through the Sánchez men in Sevilla from this time frame, many had sons that used “de Jerez”. I think that’s more than a coincidence. This is in reference to Leonor´s father Alonso Sánchez de Jerez. Therés more info on them in this same book series.

    Ím still reading up on the various Alvaro alcocers. Let me know if you’d like me to send you any of referenced pages mentioned above.
    Happy hunting,
    Maven

    Published by maven200 – Mon, 2020-01-13 22:13 | Permalink

    Comment

    Hi manny,
    Great post. i really enjoy reading your posts. My favorite take away- “Quien adelante no mira, atrás se halla”: Ím going to share that tomorrow.
    I read through your post and couldn’t help but think this Leonor alcocer and descendants had to be connected to the alcocers we know came in 1520 and 1538- Beatriz, Francisca, Baltazar etc.

    I went through my notes and found one Alonso de Alcocer, son of Gutierre de Alcocer and Leonor de la Sal, hija de Juan de Sal y Isabel Fernandez. Alonso paso en 1566 a la nueva españa como criado del clérigo Pedro Moreno (pasajeros IV no. 4788). Gutierre alcocer was the son of Fernando Alcocer married to gracia de Prado (Pardo fam). Now Fernando is either brother or first cousin to Diego alcocer who is married to Blanca Núñez. Still figuring this out. my source is the Juan Gil books v. 3 under Alcocer pg 206.

    I know that this Alonso has diff parents but everything else is a good match so I thought I’d share just in case it sparks anything. Finally, Going through the Sánchez men in Sevilla from this time frame, many had sons that used “de Jerez”. I think that’s more than a coincidence. This is in reference to Leonor´s father Alonso Sánchez de Jerez. Therés more info on them in this same book series.

    Ím still reading up on the various Alvaro alcocers. Let me know if you’d like me to send you any of referenced pages mentioned above.
    Happy hunting,
    Maven

    Published by R.A.Ricci – Tue, 2019-11-05 15:51 | Permalink

    Comment

    Two branches of the Alcocer family made it from Alcala de Henares to Toledo. The heads of both branches were tax farmers. I have not yet been able to come up with the descendants of Hernan Diaz de Alcocer of Toledo. Alvaro de Alcocer was the head of the other branch and he stated in court that he descendsed from the prestigious Alcocer family that originated in Alcala de Henares through his paternal lineage. This Alvaro de Alcocer was the father of Juan de Alcocer, Antonio ALVAREZ de Alcocer, and Mencia de Alcocer. Mencia de Alcocer was married to Juan Núñez de Toledo (Jurado, tax farmer).

    Published by R.A.Ricci – Mon, 2019-11-04 15:57 | Permalink

    Comment

    Hi Manny.

    I have done much research on the Alcocer family in Sevilla Spain. One branch of the Alcocer family did move to Toledo where they married distant cousins from the Cota, San Pedro, and Herrera families. When I get home I’ll look up what I have on this branch and see if there is a connection.

    Thanks,
    Rick A Ricci

    Los Ruiz de Velasco de Ocotlan

    Published by vigotal –
    Forums
    History, Culture and General Discussion

    Hola Jorge Luis. John Inclan y juan Pablo:

    Ya que estan comentando sobre Ruiz y Haro Velasco, por mi madre tengo
    ascendencia de los
    Ruiz de Velasco, tambien de la zona de Ocotlan, aqui les mando lo que tengo

    Comments

    Published by Raramosa – Sat, 2020-01-04 20:55 | Permalink

    Comment

    Hola! No se si ya te respondieron pero yo tambien tengo la conneciones a los ruiz velasco (mi abuelita es Ruiz Velasco nacida en Jamay).

    Veo que tu arbol empiesa con Tomas y Antonio Ruiz Velasco Sagu.

    Esto es lo que te pudeo decir:

    Los padres de Tomas y Antonio fueron Juan Manuel de Velasco y Catharina Tello de Orosco.

    Los hijos de Juan Manuel y Catharina que e encontrado son:

    Maria de los Reyes (bautiso 8 Ene 1746) (posible)
    Maria de la Candelaria (b. 10 Feb. 1748) (posible)
    Manuel Eusebio (b. 20 Mayo 1751) (posible porque Thomas nace en menos de 7 meses despues...talves ay un hijo ilejitimo?)
    Thomas de Jesus (b. 31 Dic 1751)
    Rita Mathiana (b. 7 Mar 1753)
    Joseph Antonio (b. 12 Jun 1755)
    Maria Theresa (b. 12 Aug 1756)
    (Joseph Antonio Francisco (b. 17 Oct 1757)
    Joseph Vicente (b. 10 Abr 1760)
    Juan Ignacio de la Luz (b. 28 Oct. 1762)

    Nota que Thomas Ruiz Velasco se case 3 vezes:

    Con Francisca Sagu y Gonsales (1 Mar. 1778)
    Con Rita Mora (26 Abr. 1797)
    Con Ana Maria Carillo (20 Oct. 1811)

    Veo que este chat es de 2006 asi que no se si ya ayas encontrado mas desde entonces.

    Perdona la ortografia ya que aunque se hablar el espanol, no lo se escribir bien (e vivido la majoria de mi vida en los EU).

    _Rafa

    Comment

    Muy interesante aportación.

    Yo estoy buscando a los padres de Catalina Tello de Orozco. Por una dispensa, encontré que su madre se llamaba Teresa de Sahagún (Sagú), hermana de Isabel de Sahagún, pero no sé más.

    Sobre Juan Manuel Ruiz de Velasco, por lo menos puedo contribuir en esta ascendencia suya:

    I.- Pedro Ruiz de Velasco y Haro cc. Ana Núñez de Bohórquez.
    Padres de:

    II.- Pedro Ruiz de Velasco y Bohórquez (1618) cc. Mariana de Aceves.
    Padres de:

    III.- Pedro Ruiz de Velasco y Aceves (c. 1658) cc. Lucía de la Mora-Hurtado de Mendoza.
    Padres de:

    IV.- José Manuel Ruiz de Velasco y de la Mora-Hurtado de Mendoza (c. 1695) cc. Manuela de Mendoza y Vera.
    Padres de:

    V.- JUAN MANUEL RUIZ DE VELASCO y MENDOZA (1720) cc. CATALINA TELLO DE OROZCO.

    Espero que les sirva.

    Saludos.

    Comment

    Thank you Ricci. Here is another connection back to Manuel Ruiz Velasco but this time on the Godinez side of my grandmother.

    1. Maria Guadalupe Ruiz Velasco Godines (born 16 Aug 1931 in Jamay)

    2. Parents: Jose Jesus Ruiz Velasco (born 15 Sep 1897) and Anastasia Godines (22 Jan 1898) (m. 17 Sep 1920 in Jamay).

    3. Parents of Anastasia Godines: Casimiro Godinez (b. 4 Mar 1864) and Maria Cesaria Ruiz Velasco (baptised 27 Feb 1868) (m. Abt. 1890).

    4. Parents of Ma. Cesaria R.V.: Juan Ruiz Velasco (b. abt. 1836) and Rafaela Jimenez

    5. Parents of Juan R.V.: Jose Ramon Rosalino R.V. (baptized 10 Sep. 1808) and Ma. Isabel Castellanos (b. abt. 1817) (m. 10 Feb. 1834).

    6. Parents of Ramon R.V.: Vicente Ruiz Velasco (baptized 10 Apr. 1760) and Ygancia Juliana Lomelin (m. 1 Dec. 1785).

    7. Parents of Vicente R.V.: Juan Manuel R.V. and Catarina Tello de Orosco.

    You may find also find it interesting that for one of Vicente's children, Jose Domingo baptized 8 Aug. 1792, the child's godparents were Tomas Ruiz Velasco and Francisca Rafaela Sagu y Gonsales.

    -- Rafael

    Comment

    Dear Diego,

    You wrote : “ III.- Pedro Ruiz de Velasco y Aceves (c. 1658) cc. Lucía de la Mora-Hurtado de Mendoza.”

    I have Lucia in my records as “Lucia Zamora”. I believe that she is the same person as Lucia de la Mora Hurtado Mendoza.

    I believe that this Lucia is the same one also known as “Lucia de la Mora” that is a daughter of Francisco de la Mora Mendoza y Ochoa and Maria Zamora Solis (Romero de Chavez y Zamora)
    Thanks,
    Rick A. Ricci

    Pedro Alvarez de Navia- Tlaltenango

    Published by superhorrible –
    Forums
    Genealogy Research

    Hello,

    Comments

    Published by andrea_e – Sun, 2020-01-05 14:11 | Permalink

    Comment

    Might the name be "Alvertez?"

    Top right - baptism of Luis Vela (son of Antonio Vela and Francisca Molina/Tapia/Bobadilla)
    https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T49T-R6?i=49&cc=1804458

    II don't know where I put the rest of my links, but I have Francisca de Molina and her brother Francisco de Molina as children of Luis de Molina. Francisco was married to Isabel Alvertez/Albertiz (i'm not sure the proper spelling of this name).

    Hope that helps
    ! Andrea

    Comment

    Or Francisco and Francisca's sister Catalina Jimenez was married to the Alvarez de Navia. I believe she's the only sibling I don't have a spouse for.

    Baptism of Catalina and Francisco's niece identifying them as siblings - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T49T-F7?cc=1804458&wc=3P9N…

    Baptism of Antonio Vela Molina with padrinos Lope Alvarez de Navia soltero and Ana de Molina muger de Villareal - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T49T-F4?i=90&cc=1804458

    ~ andrea

    (edited to add the second link)

    San Matias, Pinos Zacatecas

    Published by superhorrible –
    Forums
    Genealogy Research

    Hello,

    Does anyone know where to find baptism records for San Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas between 1647-1680?.

    Thanks

    Happy hunting in 2020!

    sus

    Comments

    Published by superhorrible – Thu, 2020-01-02 01:50 | Permalink

    Comment

    Hi,
    I just located the extractions done by Mary Lou Montagna. Does anyone know if the records she is writting about are on microfilm? (baptsms 1647-1680)

    thanks

    sus

    Parvulo

    Published by gaby.barbosa –
    Forums
    History, Culture and General Discussion

    Hello everyone!

    I am wondering what age range were the term parvulo in the XVII century? I thought it was toddlers but I've read on different books that it would include children as old as 7....

    Comments

    Published by superhorrible – Mon, 2020-01-06 16:41 | Permalink

    Comment

    My guess is exactly under 7, because at 7 or older they would be confirmed.

    This is just a guess

    sus

    Juan de la Torre (married to Juana de Gamboa)- Sitio "el Mesquite"

    Published by superhorrible –
    Forums
    Genealogy Research

    Hello,
    New theory about the parents of Juan de la Torre (married to Juana de Gamboa)
    I'm still working with land records. I'm submitting the following information:

    Comments

    Published by superhorrible – Mon, 2019-12-23 18:52 | Permalink

    Comment

    Hello,

    Please disregard my previous theory. I read the will from Miguel Caldera the document says there were only 2 children from the marriage between Juan de La Torre and Ysabel Caldera (Marcos and Melchor).
    Now the new theory is that Juan de la Torre (married to Isabel Caldera) is the same Juan de la Torre that married to Juana de Gamboa (second marriage)

    Any comments?

    Happy holiday

    sus L

    Comment

    or alternately the juan who married juana gamboa is a son of the other juan and some woman other than isabel caldera

    Comment

    The only problem with that theory is that Juan de la Torre (married to Juana Gamboa) somehow "got" the land from Juan de la Torre (married to Isabel Caldera).
    I agree we need more documents to understand their relationship. I'm sure of anything

    sus

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