Dr.mt

Rancho Los Negritos, Aguascalientes, México

Published by German Rafael Gomez –
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Genealogy Research

Don José Bruno Macías Valadéz Muñoz (1851–1915) descrito en censos como agricultor, nació el 6 de octubre de 1851 en Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México, hijo de Secundino y Rita.

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En levantamientos rurales catastrales de 1906 tenemos evidencia que Marcelino Macias Valadez (padre) era aun propietario de las fincas Mesa Jocoyde en Calvillo y La Barranca en Jesus Maria.

Y, en El Diario Oficial aun lista terrenos a su nombre en febrero 15, 1970, donde se discute la expropiacion de terrenos, se menciona la inafectabilidad del el predio La Esperanza, propiedad de Marcelino Macias Valadez (hijo).

Desgraciadamente no hay acceso al documento completo, por lo que no se puede determinar el resultado de esta accion gubernamental.

Looking for info on Manuel Felix y Suriano from Jerez Zac region

Published by mars454 –
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Genealogy Research

Hit a wall with Manuel Felix y Suriano first married to Antonia Ortis then Carmen Carlos de Godi. From my research he went by Manuel Felix and sometimes by Manuel Suriano.

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Comentario

1)-Ysidoro Escobedo and Maria de La Concepcion
2)-Lazaro Antonio Escobedo and Juana Maria Garai (not married, Lazaro was married to another woman)
3)-Luisa Escobedo and Nicolas Bernardino Soriano ( son of Felix Soriano and Maria Luisa)
4)-Jose Manual Soriano/Suriano (aka Manuel Felix) married twice, 1st to Antonia Ortiz and 2nd to Maria del Carmen Carlos de Godi.

Happy Mother’s Day

Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

baptism 25 Sept 1808 in Jerez, Zac
Maria Jesus Agapita Espanola born in Santa Fe 5 days old 11am
parents: Jose Manuel Suriano and Maria del Carmen Godoi
pat grn: Nicolas Suriano and Luisa Garay
mat grn: Juan Carlos Godoy and Magdalena de la Torre
godparents: Juan Jose Lespron and Ynes Medrano
source: 0439849 film
page 189 Family search online

Comentario

.

marriage 8 Jan 1742 in Jerez, Zac
Nicolas Bernardino Soriano Espanol from Juanacatique
parents: Felix Soriano and Maria Luisa
with: Luisa Escobedo Espanola from Juanacatique
natural child of Antonio Lazaro Escobedo and Juana Maria Garai
godparents: Caitano de Santiago and Maria Dolores
witness: Joseph Castro and Marcos Reyes
source: 0440059 Jerez marriage record
page 498 Family search online

DOÑA GRACIANA CORONA cc JUAN MICHEL ORDÓÑEZ

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –
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Genealogy Research

Hola prim@s,

The San Luis Potosí miscellaneous archives continue to be a great source of information, and not just for known Potosina families!

Comentarios

Comentario

Manny,

I will give my two cents on the name of Domingo González Maral's mother, and a tentative transcription of the first part of the will.

I think I agree with "de Mona." If you look at the "m" in mona and the "m" in Domingo three lines up, I think they look exactly the same. As to the "o," the writer did not close the o, making it look like a u but neither did he close the o in "Yo," when Domingo said "Sepan quantos ... como yo."

As to the place where the parents were from I think it says: "difuntos vezinos que fueron de la villa de Cubas en los Reynos de Castilla en Portugal." This wording makes sense since Castilla and Portugal were united from 1582-1640, which is when this will was written (1595).

So, the complete first section (with a small portion I could not make out) says:

"En el nombre de nuestro señor Jhesu Xpto y de la siempre virgen maria su madre, sepan quantos esta carta vieren como Yo domingo gonzalez maral ... de san luis minas del potosi de ls nueva España, hijo legitimo de diego gonzalez maral y de doña Ysabel de mona difuntos vezinos que fueron de la villa de Cubas en los Reynos de Castilla en Portugal estando como Estoy enfermo..."

Hope this helps!

Sergio

Comentario

Thank you, Sergio. Those are the challenges of paleography: not only deciphering chicken scratch, but also trying to “hear” how a 16th century Spanish scribe heard a foreign word. And then, there are the place names that are no longer in use, which is always a possibility.

I finally located the testimony of Domingo Gonzalez from the Alonso Alvarez proceso, which identifies him as the yerno of Martin Monje. It’s dated 24 Apr 1562 in Ameca, Jalisco. Unfortunately, there is no signature to match with the signature on the testamento of Domingo Gonzalez Maral, so we’re still relying upon deductive reasoning, as far as Ines de Leon’s parentage.

I also noticed that in the left image, in the last paragraph of his testimony, witness Luis Montesinos mentions an “Alonso Gutierrez, sobrino de Myn Monge.” That Martin Monje had a nephew living in the area is news to me. Perhaps he’s the son of Juan Gutierrez de Leon cc Catalina Sanchez? FYI, you’ll find other early residents of Ameca and Purificacion appearing as witnesses in that section of the proceso - Juan Fernandez de Hijar and Alvaro Bracamonte, to name a couple.

Saludos,
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Comentario

How many Alex's are on NR? Geez I hope it not just me...otherwise the pressure is on!

Both requests are tough! Here are some possibilities that I see:

Surname, which may even have cut off letters:
Mona
Niona

City, which again may have cut off letters:

Cubel
Cubiel
Cubes
Cubies
Cubill

That would be the letters transcribed. Then of course the b could be a v, the s could be a z, the c could be a q, in modern spanish etc.

Do you think how "Villa" is spelled looks strange? Like 99% of the time "Villa" is found at that position in the sentance but if you look at "illa" in Castilla in the next line, it looks different than in Villa. Maybe it doesnt say villa and the city is "X de X"?

Tough one!

Alex

Comentario

Thanks Alex. I also see “de Mona” for the mother’s surname, though “Niona” is an interesting variant. And “villa” does look a little different - looks like he added a third “l.”

As far as the identity of his wife, Inés de León, and trying to link her to Martín Monje cc Isabel Álvarez Corona, I consulted with Sylvia Corona, and she replied, “sobre Domingo González esto es lo que tengo: Nació hacia 1527.  En 1556 tal vez en la villa de Colima, ante el escribano Juan de la Torre, Martín Monje, su suegro, vecino de Colima, le otorgó poder a Domingo González, residente en las minas de Guaxacatlán, en lo concerniente a las minas que tenía en el real, para registrar ante cualesquiera justicias, nuevas minas y, también, para poblar y labrar y meter en ellas gente y esclavos que para el dicho efecto Domingo había recibido de Monje. Siendo yerno de éste, prestó declaración en 1557, en Guadalajara, durante el proceso inquisitorial contra Alonso Álvarez de Espinosa.  Fuentes: (Romero de Solís, 1999b: N° 46;  y Villaseñor Bordes, 1959: 40).”
I looked at Villaseñor Bordes’ “La Inquisición en la Nueva Galicia,” and in the list of witnesses for the proceso against Alonso Álvarez de Espinosa, he names “Domingo González yerno de Martín Monge, de edad de 30 años poco más o menos.”
I read through that proceso - there are actually two folders, 1557 and 1569 - and though I see Domingo González’s name among those of witnesses present during a proclamation, I can’t find the testimony where he talks about Martín Monje giving him poderes, so either I missed it, or there’s a third folder.
Either way, at least we know it’s documented that Martín Monje had a son-in-law named Domingo González, and seeing how Domingo González Maral was married to Inés de León, and their daughters used the surname “Corona,” it’s makes sense that they are the same Domingo González, and that Inés de León would be Martín Monje’s unnamed daughter. She would’ve named for his mother, Inés de Alonso Monje.

Thanks!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Comentario

Thank you, Glenn. I was thinking Cuba, too, but at first glance, I see “Cuvill” or “Cuvile,” so I’m leaning towards Covilhã, which a Spanish scribe might have written “Cuvilla.” Another possibility is Cubalhão (“Cuvallo” or “Cuvaio”). It’s too bad the scribe didn’t write down the town’s bishopric, which was common in those days. What do you see for his mother’s surname?

Thanks again!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Quillno or Quilino

Published by makas_nc –
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History, Culture and General Discussion

I'm working with a cousin on his genealogy

One of his ancestors is listed as either first name Quillno or more likely Quilino

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Ancestors who were priests

Published by labananilla –
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Genealogy Research

Hello everybody!

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Comentario

Mi tatarabuela Maria Petronila Games Navarro (1836–1902), primer esposa de Don José Bruno Macías Valadéz Muñoz (1851–1915), nació el 30 de mayo de 1836 en Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México, hija de Antonia y Herculano.

De joven fue novicia, o monja, (posiblemente en el Convento de San Ignacio de las R. R. Monjas de la Enseñanza de Aguascalientes; las fuentes pertinentes son de difícil acceso y esto es conocido solo por tradicion oral.)

Con la Ley de Nacionalización de Bienes Eclesiásticos (12 de Julio de 1859) y la Ley de Exclaustración de Monjas y Frailes (11 agosto de 1859), y la subsecuente supresión de monasterios y la exclaustración de monjas durante la revolución liberal de Benito Juarez (1858-1861) se vio en necesidad de abandonar su convento y dedicarse entonces a la vida laica en febrero de 1863 cuando las monjas enfrentaron la primera exclaustración practicada en el país.

Petra tenia entonces 27 años de edad.

Muchas de estas ex-monjas hicieron labor de maestras o enfermeras.
Dice la tradicion familiar que ella fue quien le enseñó a leer a su esposo Bruno con quien, restaurando hasta donde era posible la vida común, se caso en 1870; ella ya de 34 y el de 18 años de edad.

Tuvieron dos hijos:

Marcelino Macías Valadéz Games (1871–???) nacido el 2 de junio en Aguascalientes, casado con Maria Eufemia Medina Perez, Maria Refugio Oviedo Oviedo y finalmente con Maria Franca de la Soledad Ruiz de Chavez Aguilar, y muere en Aguascalientes.

Jose Jesus Macías Valadéz Games (1873–1873) nacida el 1o. de enero en Aguascalientes y muere de fiebre a los cuatro meses en el Rancho de Los Negritos.

Comentario

Thank you so much! Yes, he was born in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, and I understand this Parroquia is still part of Diócesis de Guadalajara... He was born in 1877, but I cannot find any burial record, nor death record, nor marriage record... I think it would've been possible for him to be a priest, but I didn't know where to look.

I am definitely going to check these documents, thank you both so very much!

Comentario

The diocesan archives are your best bet, I think, for finding information on ancestors who were clergy.

Maybe you will get lucky and find them in this booklet of lists of clergyman in the diocese of Valladolid, Nueva España (Morelia). Based on the appearance of a clergyman I have identified on the list, it is from the mid to late 1700's.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-BPS2-S3

The lists contained in the booklet:

  • Image 2027 Clergy listed by parish or post
  • Image 2060 Tarasco (Fluent in Purépecha)
  • Image 2063 Othomites (Fluent in Otomí)
  • Image 2065 Mexicanos (Fluent in Náhuatl)
  • Image 2067 Masahues (Fluent in Mazahua) & Pirinda (Fluent in Matlatzinca)
  • Image 2068 Clérigos con capellanías que han muerto
  • Image 2069 Lista de clérigos que han fallecido...

Ruiz de Esparza or Esparza surname

Published by Becca0226 –
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Genealogy Research

Hi Everyone, My name is Elma Esparza Ramos and I am currently researching the Ruiz de Esparza surname. I am at a brick wall with Manuel Antonio Esparza who was maybe born sometimes around 1800-1810.

Comentarios

Comentario

I've got a couple:

María de Jesús Pérez Esparza
1825 – Deceased

Juliana Esparza
1810 – Deceased

It's not much to go on.
I've got LOTS of multiples of Jesus Perez, and I've also hit a wall after these two.

Comentario

Hello Elma, I'm new to this but had to respond to your inquiries . I'm related to Manuel Antonio Esparza through marriage of Marcelina Cruz. They had four children listed on my tree . Besides Dionisio ( 1830), they had Santa Maria Esparza born about 1836. One of their children, Herlinda Tenorio Esparza (1/10/1861) born in Rio Grande, Zacatecas married Martin Joaquin Reyes (3/31/1872) in Ojocalientes, Zac. Married on 3/1/1898 in San Juan de Guadalupe, Durango Mexico. Martin's parents were Jesus Reyes (1839) married to Rosario Amador on May 20, 1866 in Ojocalientes, Zac. My maternal lineage comes from Rosario's father, Francisco Amador married to Michaela Lopez. Also note that Manuel Antonio had a grandson by the name of Dionisio Esparza born on 04/08/1859 and died 08/22/1898 in San Juan de Guadalupe, Durango Mexico. That is as far as I had gone for now. I will do more research on this. Cecilia

Let me add that Santa Maria married Amada Tenorio (8/21/1839), her parents were Francisco Tenorio de Alva Sanchez and Ygnacia Castrellon Montelongo.

Comentario

So glad to hear from someone that has my family in their tree too. I have the information that you mentioned. I dont think I had found any information on Herlinda Esparza Tenorio and its good to hear that. I will take a look at that info. Right now, I am doing extensive search in Rio Grande, Zacatecas, since this is where most of the records that I found says, they came from. So far, the Esparza's that would be close to Manuel Antonio's age all come to a halt. At least they probably were not from this area. Some of Santa Maria's children mentioned them being born in Sain Alto, so that is where I am going next. My brother's ydna matched to a Jose Luis Ruiz de Esparza and his father Rafael are from Gomez Palacio, Durango, maybe that is where we need to go. He told me that most of the esparza's do go back to this line. Thank you for your thoughts. Most of the info on family search is from me and my sister. There is another user that I think is also trying to find her Esparza family and is digging thru all the Esparza's found. I think her family goes to Olayo Esparza and Antonia Aguilar. Thank you Ms. Cecilia.

Comentario

Holo Leohomo, escribo en ingles porque es mas facil para mi y ellos me contestaron en ingles. Mi primer lenguaje fue espanol, pero creci y naci en Laredo, Texas. No sabes leer el Ingles? O sera mas facil para ti el Espanol. De cual quier modo, saludos tambien.

Comentario

Hello Elma,

I saw your thread and thought I'd let you know that there is a Ruiz de Esparza surname in New Mexico circa early 1800, maybe late 1700s. Since the surname is not that common, maybe, there is a connection. The progenitor of the line in New Mexico appears to be a Teodoro Ruiz de Esparza and spouse, Josefa Angulo in, I believe, Santa Fe, NM. I have a distant cousin researching the surname and his brick wall is Teodoro Ruiz de Esparza. He can't go back any further.

Feel free to contact me and I'll put you in touch with mi primo.

SC Sexton

Comentario

Hello Stephanie,
José Teodoro Ruiz De Esparza and Maria Josefa Ángulo did have children in New Mexico. But Jose Teodoro Ruiz De Esparza was originally from Aguascalientes. Maria Josefa was originally from Toluca. The records states that there was a dispensation so there is hope that the dispensation will be found and shed more information on this couple. Jose Teodoro and María Josefa were married in Durango.

Here is their marriage record:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6SN2-JL?i=327&cc=15545…

Here is the baptismal record of their son Manuel Ruiz De Esparza
Jose Manuel Matheo Ruis De Esparza
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 22 Jun 1817
Christening Place: PURISIMA CONCEPCION-CATHOLIC, TOME, VALENCIA, NEW MEXICO
Father's Name: Teodoro Ruis De Esparza
Mother's Name: Josefa Angulo

Dear Elma,

You have not provided information on Dionicio Ruiz De Esparza that will help connect him to his ancestors. Please provide more information. There is a Dionicio Ruiz De Esparza in Texas that was born circa 1880 to Ramon Ruiz De Esparza and Petra Lerma. Is this the same Dionicio Ruiz De Esparza that you are writing about?

Here is a census record with Dionicio Ruiz De Estrada son of Ramon and Petra:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GYB8-9865?i=5&cc=14176…

Here are some other records with similar names but in Oaxaca at a later date than what you mentioned:
Manuel Antonio Ruiz
Spouse's Name: Ma. Marcilina Cruz
Event Date: 26 May 1847
Event Place: San Matias Jalatlaco,Jalatlaco-Oaxaca,Oaxaca,Mexico

Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Dionicio Esparza is not the son of Ramon Ruiz de esparza and Petra Lerma. His father is Manuel Antonio Esparza and Maria Marcelina Cruz, there is a record for one of Dionicio's son, that was born in Sabinas Hidalgo and it mentions the grandparents as being Manuel Esparza and Marcelina Cruz. That is all that I have for him. Have not found a birth or baptism for him, no death record in Laredo, Texas, since he arrive somewhere in the 1880's. I thank you for taking the time to answer my posts and I appreciate that.
Thank You
Elma Esparza Ramos

Comentario

The line is getting closer to the Ruiz De Esparza in Nueva Galicia as we have now traced Manuel Antonio Esparza to Zacatecas.

María Marcelina Cruz is the daughter of Lazaro De la Cruz and Petra Contreras

Check out this family tree where you will find more sources to look for more clues.

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/LVHQ-6P5

Comentario

Hi there, I have not seen or found any families in New Mexico, but there is always a first time. I think we did have a ydna from someone in New Mexico. I would like to hear from your cousin, anytime. Thank your post reading my thread and responding. I appreciate it.
Elma Esparza Ramos

Comentario

I was just curious myself as I do have Ruiz de Velasco and Esparsa in my
family tree.

I did find Teodoro Ruiz de Esparza and Maria Josefa Angulo's marriage.
Teodoro originated in Aguascalientes, Mexico and Josefa originated in
Toluca, Mexico. They were married 9 September 1811, in El Sagrario
Metropolitano, Victoria de Durango, Durango, Mexico, Information found in
Mexio marriages (1570-1950) Catholic Church Records, 1604-1985, Durango,
Marriages 1796-1820, Image 328, Pg. 185, film 654842.

Esther Jordan Lopez
esther@enhanced.org

On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 2:35 PM wrote:

> Hi there, I have not seen or found any families in New Mexico, but there is
> always a first time. I think we did have a ydna from someone in New
> Mexico. I
> would like to hear from your cousin, anytime. Thank your post reading my
> thread and responding. I appreciate it. Elma Esparza Ramos
>

Surnames-from ZACATECAS, AGUASCALIENTES

Published by mendezdetorres –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Is anyone else researching these surnames around Zacatecas and Aguascalientes: CAMINO, LOPEZ, LIZALDE, GARCIA, VASQUEZ, VELASCO, FRAUSTO, FLORES, SOTO, SOLIS, ESPARZA, DIAZ, OROPEZA, MARTINEZ, DURAN.

Comentarios

Comentario

I have the following in my data base
Jose Vital Magallanas
born 10 July 1780 - Tepechitlan, Zac
Married 15 July 1816 - Tlaltenango, Zac
film 443971 batch M607143
spouse: Guadalupe Lopez de Oropresa
her parents: Captain Antonio Lopez de Oropesa
Andrea San Roman
Jose Vital Magallanas and Guadalupe Lopez de Oropesa - I found 8 children...all born in Tlaltenango

I had a copy of their marriage record that listed Captain Antonio Lopez de Oropesa from some order. About a year ago, I sent all the documents to a Magallanas cousin in Tlaltenango, as Vital is on his line.
Hope this information helps.
Helyn

mormonboy74 wrote:

Is anyone else researching these surnames around Zacatecas and Aguascalientes: CAMINO, LOPEZ, LIZALDE, GARCIA, VASQUEZ, VELASCO, FRAUSTO, FLORES, SOTO, SOLIS, ESPARZA, DIAZ, OROPEZA, MARTINEZ, DURAN.

Comentario

Hi
I am researching Martinez in Aguascalientes, especially Esteban and Panfila. I think I have another name or two, I will post it here.
John

Santos Luna wrote:
Re: Lopez de Oropesa

I have the following in my data base
Jose Vital Magallanas
born 10 July 1780 - Tepechitlan, Zac
Married 15 July 1816 - Tlaltenango, Zac
film 443971 batch M607143
spouse: Guadalupe Lopez de Oropresa
her parents: Captain Antonio Lopez de Oropesa
Andrea San Roman
Jose Vital Magallanas and Guadalupe Lopez de Oropesa - I found 8 children...all born in Tlaltenango

I had a copy of their marriage record that listed Captain Antonio Lopez de Oropesa from some order. About a year ago, I sent all the documents to a Magallanas cousin in Tlaltenango, as Vital is on his line.
Hope this information helps.
Helyn

mormonboy74 wrote:

Is anyone else researching these surnames around Zacatecas and Aguascalientes: CAMINO, LOPEZ, LIZALDE, GARCIA, VASQUEZ, VELASCO, FRAUSTO, FLORES, SOTO, SOLIS, ESPARZA, DIAZ, OROPEZA, MARTINEZ, DURAN.

Comentario

I am also searching for Garcia and Esparza and Duran from Jalisco and Aguascalientes, also Flores and Soto from Zacatecas. Type in my name in the group's search field or go to "files" or "gedcom".

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
From: mormonboy74
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 8:59 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Surnames-from ZACATECAS, AGUASCALIENTES

Is anyone else researching these surnames around Zacatecas and Aguascalientes: CAMINO, LOPEZ, LIZALDE, GARCIA, VASQUEZ, VELASCO, FRAUSTO, FLORES, SOTO, SOLIS, ESPARZA, DIAZ, OROPEZA, MARTINEZ, DURAN.

Published by Tony Diaz (no verificado) – Jue, 2006-12-21 12:30 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

I am researching the surname Diaz from Momax, Zacatecas.

Tony Diaz
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from U.S. Cellular

-----Original Message-----
From: mormonboy74
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 08:59:28
To:research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Surnames-from ZACATECAS, AGUASCALIENTES

Is anyone else researching these surnames around Zacatecas and Aguascalientes: CAMINO, LOPEZ, LIZALDE, GARCIA, VASQUEZ, VELASCO, FRAUSTO, FLORES, SOTO, SOLIS, ESPARZA, DIAZ, OROPEZA, MARTINEZ, DURAN.

Comentario

Hi Tony. I am researching several last names in Aguascalientes, including
Lopez, Elizalde, Esparza, Martínez, Sotomayor and many others, mostly in
17th & 18th century church records. No information on Camino, Solis,
Oropesa, Frausto and Duran.

Bill Figueroa

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Diaz"
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Surnames-from ZACATECAS, AGUASCALIENTES

>I am researching the surname Diaz from Momax, Zacatecas.
>
> Tony Diaz
> Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from U.S. Cellular
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mormonboy74
> Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 08:59:28
> To:research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Surnames-from ZACATECAS, AGUASCALIENTES
>
>
> Is anyone else researching these surnames around Zacatecas and
> Aguascalientes: CAMINO, LOPEZ, LIZALDE, GARCIA, VASQUEZ, VELASCO, FRAUSTO,
> FLORES, SOTO, SOLIS, ESPARZA, DIAZ, OROPEZA, MARTINEZ, DURAN.

Comentario

I have a few of those in my family tree/Pedigree...my 2nd Paternal Great Grandfather was Atanasio Saldivar Duran and a few of those other surnames are connected through my Duran surname. My 2nd GG was from Monte De Yanez, Nochistlan.

Comentario

you need to get specific. The questions are too general in nature. Ask
the questions again but give us the specific areas in Jalisco,
Zacatecas, and/or Aguascalientes that your family comes from. Or if you
think that maybe they came from the surrounding areas then include those
areas in your question.

You can go to the files area of the group and into the members
genealogies. Look next to the indivuduals names for a location that
interests you and then open that folder. It should give a list of
surnames they are researching in those areas. Hopefully you'll find
someone and can contact them. Even if they aren't researching your
specific surnames contact them anyway as the chances are they have seen
your surnames or some of those surnames have married into their families.

Narrowing down your question will help.

thanks,

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

mormonboy74 wrote:
> Is anyone else researching these surnames around Zacatecas and Aguascalientes: CAMINO, LOPEZ, LIZALDE, GARCIA, VASQUEZ, VELASCO, FRAUSTO, FLORES, SOTO, SOLIS, ESPARZA, DIAZ, OROPEZA, MARTINEZ, DURAN.

Ancestry of the Padilla family from Los Altos de Jalisco

Published by R.A.Ricci –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I posted three ancestral lines of the "Padilla" family of "Los Altos de Jalisco."

One line shows the paternal line starting with Mateos Davila.

Comentarios

Comentario

I am also working on the Padilla family from Los Altos de Jalisco, with a focus on Don José Guadalupe Padilla de la Torre (1861–1929) and Pedro Alfonso Padilla Gilbert (1914–1983) both born in rancho Tres Palos, (in Arandas according to some, and San Ignacio, Cerro Gordo according to others) whose sister Rita Padilla De La Torre married into the Medina Ascencio family.

Comentario

Hello German,

I have many Padilla lines in my family. I descend from Macedonio De La Torre Padilla and my great grandmother had a first marriage to a Padilla so my dad has many first cousins that are Padilla Franco. On my moms side I also descend from Padilla from both maternal grandparents. My maternal grandfather was born in San Ignacio, Cerro Gordo.

Saludos,

Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

The lopez part of the surname could have come from being named after an uncle, or it could have come from the "Lope" ancestors from his Martinez de Leiva side of the family. I wont know if Baron's tree is accurate until I can check his sources.

There was a Lope de Padilla member of the family that died in his late 20's or early 30's. I have a suspicion that he belongs in the line and that he was skipped over in the family line with his son being raised by hjs grandfather. That would explain a discrepancy that I found in a document. I need to do more research to clear this up.

Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Hi Olga,

I would love to have a finished book available for you. Unfortunately I think that there is an added generation that we need to add to Baron's work on generations 1 through IX. I believe that Baron skipped a generation so I want to research his work before I commit it to a book. I believe that he skipped Lope de Padilla. I understand that mistakes creep into the best books, but I am determined to go over all the material before I submit the final product.

Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Thank you for your kind words. I found many inconsistencies in Baron’s claims on the Padilla family so I am not including his work. I believe that Baron has merged the López de Padilla and Garcia de Padilla lines. The two lines are related, but how closely related they are is not clear to me.

I will be including some new information that I just found today. In researching my Padilla line, I discovered that George Washington, first president of the United States of America is a 13th cousin of mine. I haven’t yet figured out how many times removed.

It is “finds” like this that keep me from finishing the book because I keep adding information to it.

Thank you again,
Rick A. Ricci

Apellido Lugo

Published by locolupe –
Foros
Genealogy Research

My biological father was Lugo.

Comentarios

Comentario

Read

Mission San Diego de Alcalá California
Bautismos 1822-1855
Temple, Thomas Workman, II, et al

found on FamilySearch.

There are LOTS of Lugos in the Alta California Missions and Presidios.

Comentario

I have Lugo in my ancestry. And there is most likely a slave connection, but not as a trader. My Lugo ancestor is a “mulato libre” living in the early 1700’s. My ancestry DNA results do not show this African ancestry as it seems that it contributed less than 1% of my DNA. My Lugo ancestor is from Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico. Some Lugo family members were originally Fernández de Lugo.

Rick

Comentario

Hi tocayo,

I also have Lugo from Teocaltiche, who is your ancestor?

I descend from Tomas de Lugo and his wife Maria Teresa de Jesus Tejeda, through their daughter Maria Josefa Gertrudis. Here is her marriage in Jalos:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XY8N-F?i=60&cc=1874591

I do not have very much info on them, only the marriage of another duaghter.

Saludos,

Richard

Comentario

Hola Tacayo and primo,

I also descend from Josepha Gertudis Lugo, twice, through my father and mother. And I have to make a correction, It was her husband Jph. Justo Gutierrez that was a mulato. María Josepha Gertrudis Lugo was an “española.”
I descend from their son, Pedro Justo Gutierrez y Lugo baptized 7/feb/1753 in Jalostotitlán.

Pedro Jose Gutierrez married Maria de la Merced Saines De Santiago. Their daughter, Felipa (Feliciana) Gutierrez married José María Gomez and had at least two daughters. My father descends from one of the daughters, Justa Rufina Gomez Gutierrez and my mother descends from the other daughter, Maria de la Trinidad Gómez Gutierrez.

I would like to hear how you descend from Maria Josepha Gertrudis Lugo.

Saludos,
Rick

Apellido ALCALA

Published by Ruben Alcala –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hola mi nombre es Ruben Alcala Delgado.
Busco informasion sobre el apellido Alcala, desendientes de Agustin Alcala y Atanacia de la Cruz.
Agustin Alcala nacio en Hujucar Jalisco o tal vez en Valparaiso Zac.

Comentarios

Comentario

I'm afraid my Spanish is bad, my apologies..
 
I have Alcala family that has one record for the area of Valparaiso even though his siblings say they are from Fresnillo and Lavor de Marquez, Jerez Zacatecas.  The records have them as Mulato, Mestiso and Espanol so take your pick but this is the one that says he is from Valparaiso.  Some records say Alcala and some say Alcalan,  Julian's brother Tiburcio Alcala is my direct ancestor through is son Marcial Alcala, his childrens records say Espanol!

Marriage information recorded 18 Jan 1794 in Jerez
Jose Julian Alcalan, Mulato Libre age 20 from Valle de Valparaiso 8 years ago
Parents: Juan Seferino Alcalan and Maria Francisca Serrano
With: Maria Ylaria, India  age 20 from Pueblo de Mesquintique 13 years
 Ago
Parents:  Maria Ysavel de la Lus, father unknown
Witness: Juan de Santiago Rodrigues, Mulato Libre age 30, vecino
Witness:  Juan de San Pedro, Mulato Libre age 60, vecino
Witness:  Julian Rito, Mulato Libre age 40 vecino
source: 0439899 marriage information
 
I also have many records for Spaniards named Alcala in Michoacan in the later 1600's.  My records are posted on Rootsweb.com
 
Linda in Everett

--- On Tue, 3/17/09, Ruben Alcala Delgado wrote:

From: Ruben Alcala Delgado
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Apellido ALCALA
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 10:13 AM

Hola mi nombre es Ruben Alcala Delgado.
Busco informasion sobre el apellido Alcala, desendientes de Agustin Alcala y
Atanacia de la Cruz.
Agustin Alcala nacio en Hujucar Jalisco o tal vez en Valparaiso Zac. al rededor
the 1785.

Comentario

First of all thank you for responding to my post, for the last 4-5 years I have been resurging the web for records for the Alcala within Zacatecas and Jalisco.
I have records of seven generations including my sons, I would like to go one more level I am searching for any information on Agusting Alcala born around 1785.

Thank you
Ruben Alcala

> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:55:29 -0700
> From: longsjourney@yahoo.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Apellido ALCALA
>
> I'm afraid my Spanish is bad, my apologies..
>
> I have Alcala family that has one record for the area of Valparaiso even though his siblings say they are from Fresnillo and Lavor de Marquez, Jerez Zacatecas. The records have them as Mulato, Mestiso and Espanol so take your pick but this is the one that says he is from Valparaiso. Some records say Alcala and some say Alcalan, Julian's brother Tiburcio Alcala is my direct ancestor through is son Marcial Alcala, his childrens records say Espanol!
>
> Marriage information recorded 18 Jan 1794 in Jerez
> Jose Julian Alcalan, Mulato Libre age 20 from Valle de Valparaiso 8 years ago
> Parents: Juan Seferino Alcalan and Maria Francisca Serrano
> With: Maria Ylaria, India age 20 from Pueblo de Mesquintique 13 years
> Ago
> Parents: Maria Ysavel de la Lus, father unknown
> Witness: Juan de Santiago Rodrigues, Mulato Libre age 30, vecino
> Witness: Juan de San Pedro, Mulato Libre age 60, vecino
> Witness: Julian Rito, Mulato Libre age 40 vecino
> source: 0439899 marriage information
>
> I also have many records for Spaniards named Alcala in Michoacan in the later 1600's. My records are posted on Rootsweb.com
>
> Linda in Everett
>
> --- On Tue, 3/17/09, Ruben Alcala Delgado wrote:
>
> From: Ruben Alcala Delgado
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Apellido ALCALA
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 10:13 AM
>
> Hola mi nombre es Ruben Alcala Delgado.
> Busco informasion sobre el apellido Alcala, desendientes de Agustin Alcala y
> Atanacia de la Cruz.
> Agustin Alcala nacio en Hujucar Jalisco o tal vez en Valparaiso Zac. al rededor
> the 1785.

Comentario

Ruben, be sure to check under Alcalan too since I've found half my Alcala line that way..
 
Good luck in your search,
Linda in Everett

--- On Wed, 3/18/09, Ruben Alcala wrote:

From: Ruben Alcala
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Apellido ALCALA
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 1:09 PM

First of all thank you for responding to my post, for the last 4-5 years I have
been resurging the web for records for the Alcala within Zacatecas and Jalisco.
I have records of seven generations including my sons, I would like to go one
more level I am searching for any information on Agusting Alcala born around
1785.

Thank you
Ruben Alcala

Comentario

My great-grandmother is Macedonia Arellano Alcalá viuda de Gómez (1859–1922) de Santo Cristo Milagroso, Tanhuato de Guerrero, Michoacán.

New Member Introduction

Published by guscar –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello, my name is Gustavo Carrillo. I have been researching my
Carrillo lineage for some time now. I'm also glad for the
opportunity of joining this group. Even though most of my ancestors

Comentarios

Comentario

Are you connected to Pablo Centeno, married to Dominga Almeida, parents of Maria Gabriela Centeno? Citation: "México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BM8J-2?cc=1804458&wc=3P9B-… : 21 May 2014), Ojo Caliente > Ojo Caliente > Información matrimonial 1800-1801 > image 215 of 351; paróquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic Church parishes, Zacatecas).
weblink: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BM8J-2?cc=1804458&wc=3P9B-…

I am trying to find info on this Dominga Almeida's family and would appreciate your help if possible.
Thanks,
Rick

Comentario

Bienvenido Gustavo.

Espero que efectivamente obtengas lo que buscas en este grupo. Recibe
mis cordiales saludos y cuenta conmigo como tu atento y seguro
servidor.

Israel Valles
Gomez Palacio, Durango, Mexico

2011/6/16, sr92809@sbcglobal.net :
> Hello, my name is Gustavo Carrillo. I have been researching my
> Carrillo lineage for some time now. I'm also glad for the
> opportunity of joining this group. Even though most of my ancestors
> lived in northern Jalisco, I recently learned that one of them
> Marcos Carrillo, came from Jerez, Zacatecas. He married Petra
> Bermudes and moved to Cartagenas in Totatiche, Jalisco around
> 1760. I have been searching for his marriage record without any
> luck. I believe he married in Jerez,Zacatecas between 1740-1750.
> I want to find out who his parents were but the records I have
> found on his children don't give information on grandparents.
> If anyone could give me any information I would be very grateful.
> Thanks Gustavo.

Comentario

I checked my records but found nothing for Marcos and Petra but will watch.. my
records are on Rootsweb.com. file is called Mexico
good luck in your search. I've found Bermudez, Velmudes, Bermudes the hardest
family to research because of the many surname spellings.
good luck in your search.
Linda Castanon-Long

________________________________
From: "sr92809@sbcglobal.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 5:18:19 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] New Member Introduction

Hello, my name is Gustavo Carrillo. I have been researching my
Carrillo lineage for some time now. I'm also glad for the opportunity of joining
this group. Even though most of my ancestors
lived in northern Jalisco, I recently learned that one of them
Marcos Carrillo, came from Jerez, Zacatecas. He married Petra
Bermudes and moved to Cartagenas in Totatiche, Jalisco around
1760. I have been searching for his marriage record without any
luck. I believe he married in Jerez,Zacatecas between 1740-1750.
I want to find out who his parents were but the records I have found on his
children don't give information on grandparents.
If anyone could give me any information I would be very grateful.
Thanks Gustavo. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List

To post, send email to:
research(at)nuestrosranchos.org

To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Comentario

Hello

For purposes of introduction, my name is Paul Centeno. My father and I have
been researching our family genealogy for quite a long time. My father¹s
cousin managed to trace the Centeno family back over seven generations, and
has provided us with official records. My grandfather was Valente Centeno
(1881), then Tomas Centeno (1853), Juan (1826), Jose Antonio Abad (1790),
Jose Ramon (1752), Jose Felix , Jose Matias (1688), Jacinto (1654). On the
maternal side we have traced the Reynosos back until 1610. All of these
families began in Celaya and Aguascalientes, but most recently lived in
Union de San Antonio, San Juan de los Lagos, San Miguel el Alto, and San
Julian, Jalisco. Other names predominant in my family tree are:
Padilla-Davila, Lozano, Marquez, Aldrete, de Hermosillo, Ruiz de Esparza,
Romo de Vivar. I am interested in located data which will trace the Centeno
name back to Diego, who we believe was the first Centeno in Mexico. I have
many documents that have been handed down to me which could possibly help
others who are tracing family histories from the areas of which I spoke, and
looking for the surnames I mentioned above

Comentario

Hello Paul,
I can't help with your Centeno line but I might be of help on some of the
other lines since I looked at your file. We are related through a lot of the
families you mentioned and a few more. However, I believe our closest link
is through Villalobos. I'll explain why I believe this.

In the marriage entry of Anastacio Gutíerrez Garcia to María Josefa de Soto
y Romo de Vivar in Lagos de Moreno it states that he is from [Hacienda] El
Carrizo and she is from [Hacienda] La Mesa [Redonda] de los Villalobos.
http://gw0.geneanet.org/index.php3?b=arman212_w&lang=es;p=anastacio;n=g…
In the marriage entry of the parents of Anastacio, Juan Antonio Soto Mayor
Villalobos to María Francisca Romo de Vivar y Gallardo it states he is the
from [Hacienda] La Mesa Redonda and the son of son of Joseph de Soto Mayor
and Mariana Villalobos.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

In almost all of the baptisms and marriages of the brothers and sisters of
Juan Antonio Soto Mayor Villalobos they are mentioned as being from La Mesa.
Based on that fact plus the names of some of the godparents in some of the
records it seems their mother was named as María Sebastiana Villalobos in
her marriage record instead of María Ana as she is named in all of the other
documents. In that marriage record it states she is from La Mesa and the
daughter of Andrés de Villalobos and Catarina Zermeño de Anda [Altamirano].
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
last two married 11 Feb 1711 in Lagos de Moreno. In his second
marriage to María Guadalupe de Soto Mayor it states he is from La Mesa.
Andrés was the son of Salvador de Villalobos Macías Valadez and Angela de
Ayala Cortez and was baptized 21 Dec 1677 in Aguascalientes. Salvador and
Angela married 14 Nov 1672 in Aguascalientes. Salvador was the son of Tomás
de Villalobos y Pérez de Nava and Catarina Macías Valadez y Villegas. Tomás
was the son of Cristóbal de Villalobos San Clares and María Pérez de Nava.
Cristóbal de Villalobos was originally from Spain and the progenitor of the
majority of the Villalobos in Los Altos and Aguascalientes. Our common
ancestor is Salvador de Villalobos Macías Valadez if María Ana (Mariana) and
María Sebastiana are the same person. There is a marriage that had a
dispensation that might prove they are the same person if the información
matrimonial or the dispensation is found. Ana Petra Soto Villalobos and
Ignacio Sanromán were married 24 Nov 1779 in Lagos and in the entry it
states they had a dispensation for cuarto grado de consanguinidad.

Another family that is incomplete in your file is that of José Pablo Lozano
González. His mother was María González y Rubio and her parents were Joseph
Gil González y Rubio and Antonia Gertrudis de la Mota y Padilla. The father
of José Pablo was José María Lozano López who was the son of Joseph Ignacio
Lozano Lozano and Juana María Anselma López de Nava Martín del Campo married
in 1761. Joseph Ignacio was the son of Joaquín Lozano Enríquez and Mariana
Lozano Galván married in 1728. Joaquín was the son of Pedro Lozano Gutiérrez
de Mendoza and Beatriz Enríquez del Castillo. Pedro was the son of José
Lozano González de Rubalcava and Josefa Gutiérrez de Mendoza y Camacho
Riquelme married in 1668. José was the son of Jacinto de Lozano González de
Isla and Juana González de Rubalcava y Rodas married in 1632. Jacinto was
the son of Cristóbal de Lozano Martinez and María González de Isla.

I have a lot more info on the Villalobos and Lozano families I can send to
you in a file if you would like for me to send it to you.

Regards,
Armando

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Paul Centeno wrote:

> Hello
>
> For purposes of introduction, my name is Paul Centeno. My father and I have
> been researching our family genealogy for quite a long time. My father¹s
> cousin managed to trace the Centeno family back over seven generations, and
> has provided us with official records. My grandfather was Valente Centeno
> (1881), then Tomas Centeno (1853), Juan (1826), Jose Antonio Abad (1790),
> Jose Ramon (1752), Jose Felix , Jose Matias (1688), Jacinto (1654). On the
> maternal side we have traced the Reynosos back until 1610. All of these
> families began in Celaya and Aguascalientes, but most recently lived in
> Union de San Antonio, San Juan de los Lagos, San Miguel el Alto, and San
> Julian, Jalisco. Other names predominant in my family tree are:
> Padilla-Davila, Lozano, Marquez, Aldrete, de Hermosillo, Ruiz de Esparza,
> Romo de Vivar. I am interested in located data which will trace the
> Centeno
> name back to Diego, who we believe was the first Centeno in Mexico. I have
> many documents that have been handed down to me which could possibly help
> others who are tracing family histories from the areas of which I spoke,
> and
> looking for the surnames I mentioned above
>
>

Comentario

hello my name is katherine brecht. i signed up for neutros ranchos in order to see if i can find more information about my mom's side of the family(her maiden name is quesada, and her parents were born and raised in jerez, zacatecas)
 
i have already done some of my own research on her side of the family. i'm also willing to help out other members too.
 
i am taking this over for my mom since she has been to busy to work on her family tree. i also occasionally help me dad out with side of the family(my dad's a white-american, hence my last name).

Comentario

what names in Jerez and what years are you talking abt.. I also research Jerez and have found most Quezadas were from Huejucar, Jalisco
Linda in Everett

________________________________
From: katy brecht
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 3:51 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] introduction

hello my name is katherine brecht. i signed up for neutros ranchos in order to see if i can find more information about my mom's side of the family(her maiden name is quesada, and her parents were born and raised in jerez, zacatecas)
 
i have already done some of my own research on her side of the family. i'm also willing to help out other members too.
 
i am taking this over for my mom since she has been to busy to work on her family tree. i also occasionally help me dad out with side of the family(my dad's a white-american, hence my last name).

Comentario

katherine brecht- yes my quezada ancestors orginally came from huejucar also. but for some reason. my mom's granapa jose manule quezada moved jerez, then his wife gave birth to my maternfather jos manuel quesada(quezada) jr. in jerez

Comentario

what year was your grandfather born in Jerez? What your your grandfathers Mothers surname? Did your grandfather marry in Jerez?

________________________________
From: "detective1920@yahoo.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] introduction

katherine brecht- yes my quezada ancestors orginally came from huejucar also. but for some reason. my mom's granapa jose manule quezada moved jerez, then his wife gave birth to my maternfather jos manuel quesada(quezada) jr. in jerez

Comentario

My name is Raul Bracamonte Munoz and I'm thrilled to be a new member of the Nuestros Ranchos familia.
 
While my research takes me to many places within northern Mexico, a key focus area for me is Villa de Cos and the surrounding haciendas.  I also have an interest in Jerez, Fresnillo, and the city of Zacatecas.
 
Within these areas of Zacatecas, the primary family names I am researching are: Munoz, Vasquez del Mercado, Rodriguez and Sanchez.
 
Before 1850, I also have an interest in Rodarte, Gonzalez de Solis, Martinez de Orosco, Ruiz de Chavez, Caldera, Romo de Vivar, Carrion, Delgadillo, Castrejon, Campa y Cos, de Avila, and Marin. 
 
Please feel free to review my folder with descendant charts that include many of these names.
 
When researching film, I typically concentrate on older files that have not been indexed.  So if you would like me to keep an eye open for family members you may be researching, please feel free to let me know.
 
I'd also like to note that I only place individuals in my family tree if I have direct and conclusive evidence that supports the relationship.  Happy to show my work if there are any questions regarding individuals found in my files. There are a few exceptions within the Rodarte family.
 
Other than familysearch.org and ancestry.com, if anyone can recommend any other sites that provide records for my focus area, please let me know.
 
Thank you.
 
Raul

A novice's first attempt

Published by MBLOPEZ –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello list,
I joined this group several weeks back and have enjoyed reading your postings since then. My name is Michael Lopez, I live in San Diego County, I am recently retired and have decided to search for some genealogical history on my parents now that I have the time. My family of origin was "different" than most families in the sense that my parents came to America without any other family and never went back. Hence, I grew up without ever meeting any grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. My children gave me a xmas gift of participating in National Geographic's genographic project and I have become fascinated with the whole idea of genealogy and DNA. In any event here is what I know about my mother. Maria de Jesus Bravo was born in 1906 at a small ranchito named El Zapote, which was located about a mile or so outside the small village of La Ribera, Jalisco. La Rivera Jalisco is immediately adjacent to Yurecuaro, Michoacan and are separated by the Rio Lerma. So while mom

Comentarios

Comentario

Saludos Mike,

welcome to the group and please do ask your questions. Now I haven't
looked into it and can't say one way or the other if your mom was
baptized in Jalisco or Michoacan, but it makes sense if that was the
closest place where she would have been taken. Now mind you if you go
and get some of these films and it turns out that your mom doesn't turn
up in the records just buckle up and keep searching in the next closest
location that has records. Anyway here are the films you can order from
your closest Family History Center there in San Diego. As always if any
of this is unclear just ask your specific questions. . .who knows but
someone might know the answer:

Title
Registros parroquiales, 1768-1932

Authors
Iglesia Católica. Santa María (Yurécuaro, Michoacán) (Main Author)

Notes
Microfilme de manuscritos en el archivo de la parroquia y el archivo
diocesano de Zamora.
Microfilmes de 16 mm. son de reducción alta (42x).
Catholic parish registers of baptisms, confirmations, marriages,
marriage petitions, and deaths from Yurécuaro, Michoacán, Mexico.

Subjects
México, Michoacán, Yurécuaro - Church records

Format
Manuscript (On Film)

Language
Spanish

Publication
Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmados por la Sociedad Genealógica de Utah,
1965-2002

Physical
en 34 carretes de microfilme ; 35 mm., 16 mm.

Film Notes
Note - Location [Film]
Bautismos 1768-1778 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706427 ]
Bautismos 1778-1802 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706428 ]
Bautismos 1790-1814 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706429 ]
Bautismos 1806-1844 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706430 ]
Bautismos 1844-1858 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706431 ]
Bautismos 1858-1879 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706432 ]
Bautismos 1879-1889 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706433 ]
Bautismos 1889-1899 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706434 ]
Bautismos 1899-1908 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706435 ]<----------------------
Confirmaciones 1869-1914 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706436 ]
Matrimonios 1768-1788,1791-1868 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706437 ]
Matrimonios 1868-1920 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706438 ]
Información matrimonial 1778-1780 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706439 ]
Información matrimonial 1780-1783 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706440 ]
Información matrimonial 1783-1785,1787-1790 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706441 ]
Información matrimonial 1790-1804 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706442 ]
Información matrimonial 1793-1802 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706443 ]
Información matrimonial 1802-1818 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706444 ]
Información matrimonial 1854-1864,1867-1870 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706445 ]
Información matrimonial 1870-1878 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706446 ]
Información matrimonial 1878-1885 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706447 ]
Información matrimonial 1885-1893 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706448 ]
Información matrimonial 1893-1897 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706449 ]
Información matrimonial 1897-1902 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706450 ]
Información matrimonial 1903-1905 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706451 ]
Defunciones 1768-1785 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706452 ]
Defunciones 1785-1834 - FHL INTL Film [ 706453 ]
Defunciones 1824-1865 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706454 ]
Defunciones 1865-1890 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706455 ]
Defunciones 1890-1904 - VAULT INTL Film [ 706456 ]
Bautismos v. 22-31 1908-1931 (v. 26 incluye 9 páginas de actas de la
capellanía de Monteleón de 1914) - VAULT INTL Film [ 1855674 Items 1-10 ]
Confirmaciones v. 1-2 1922-1925 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1855674 Items 11-12 ]
Matrimonios v. 8-9 1920-1932 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1855674 Items 13-14 ]
Informaciones matrimoniales 1905-1911 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1855674 Items
15-16 ]
Informaciones matrimoniales v. 34-44 1911-1924 - VAULT INTL Film [
1855675 ]
Informaciones matrimoniales v. 45-47 1924-1928, 1930 - VAULT INTL Film
[ 1855676 Items 1-3 ]
Defunciones 1904-1926 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1855676 Item 4 ]
Información matrimonial 1872, 1916, 1917, 1922, 1923-1926 - FHL INTL
Film [ 2244715 Items 14 - 15 ]

© 2002 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.

Mike Bernard Lopez wrote:

>Hello list,
> I joined this group several weeks back and have enjoyed reading your postings since then. My name is Michael Lopez, I live in San Diego County, I am recently retired and have decided to search for some genealogical history on my parents now that I have the time. My family of origin was "different" than most families in the sense that my parents came to America without any other family and never went back. Hence, I grew up without ever meeting any grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. My children gave me a xmas gift of participating in National Geographic's genographic project and I have become fascinated with the whole idea of genealogy and DNA. In any event here is what I know about my mother. Maria de Jesus Bravo was born in 1906 at a small ranchito named El Zapote, which was located about a mile or so outside the small village of La Ribera, Jalisco. La Rivera Jalisco is immediately adjacent to Yurecuaro, Michoacan and are separated by the Rio Lerma. So while mom
> was born on the Jalisco side of the Rio Lerma, I think she was baptized in the Michoacan side at Yurecuaro. Mother's father was named Ladislao Bravo and her mother was named Maria ( Margarita?) Tinoco. Mom's maternal grandmother was named Estefania Rizo. My mother had 3 sisters whose names were Juana, Carmen and Luisa. She had one brother named Trinidad who married someone also named Trinidad. The families from El Zapote were "concentrated" to La Ribera during the Cristiada and I believe they remained there for most, perhaps all of their lives. My uncle Trinidad was killed during the Cristiada leaving a widow and (I think) one young son. I look forward to receiving your comments/suggestions/etc. I would like to thank Alicia of your group for the sincere encouragement she gave me to write this posting.
> Michael
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
> Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Comentario

Mike,
Thanks for your posting, you did pretty good for a novice. Based on the geographical information you provided, I went to www.fallingrain.com/world and found La Rivera on the world map. You too can do it, go to the website, click on Mexico≥find the letter L≥, LA≥, scroll and find La Rivera Jalisco. It will show you the nearest towns and their distance from La Rivera also the nearest airport You will also find that it is now the rainy season. The graph shows the precipitation within the last week. Many thanks to Kitty Cortez who has provided us with this link. Perhaps when you are ready to begin ordering films, knowing this geographical data will be useful in your search.

Welcome Mike, you are now embarked on a fantastic journey that will consume much of your time and thoughts and will be sooo rewarding.

Bienvenido,
Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
San Jose, Ca

Comentario

The map you sent is very good and helps me to refine my question in which La
Estancia my grandfather Jose Pedro Rodriguez was born.

There are 4 La Estancias listed in the map. On page 112 of Clotilde
Quiralte's book on Nochistlan she identifies 3 as La Estancia de los
Delgadillos, La Estancia de los Xaureguis, and La Estancia de los Lomelines.
All 3 names appear as common ancestors in my grandfather's tree as they do
in my grandmother's tree.

My grandfather was born on February 17, 1883.

How do I find out in which La Estancia my grandfather was born?

Sincerely,

Charles Clark

Comentario

From: Charles Clark cclark98@pacbell.net

My grandfather was born on February 17, 1883.
How do I find out in which La Estancia my grandfather was born?
Charles Clark

Charles,

My advice is to find some of your grandfather's siblings if he had any and see what their documents say in terms of place of birth or baptism. Also have you found or searched for their parents. Many times when you put all the documents together as in all the childrens' birth records as well as the marriage records, they lead you to a common place/rancho/estancia for all as most people stayed within the same area or region for several generations.

Hope this helps,
Alicia

Comentario

I found a document listing the name Rancho Zapote more than 60 times (La Ley Orgánica de división territorial de Michoacán - 20 de julio de 1909,) obviously not all referring to the same ranch, but to different ones with similar names.

I am afraid that name by itself will be of little help, and maybe will even confuse you.

My own grandfather was born in rancho El Zapote de San Ignacio in Yurecuaro.

If you google Rancho El Zapote you will currently find three ranchos with that same name. There is one near La Piedad but with so many in the past, even that one I doubt is my grandfather's.

I am also researching rancho El Zapote. I first thought my ancestors owned it, but there is a list of peones and mediadores which included three of my family surnames, which might be a clue that they simply worked the land, but did not own it.

Google Monografía del Municipio de Yurécuaro Michoacán and look for that list.

If your ancestor is listed there, it might be useful information.

Comentario

Welcome to NuestrosRanchos Michael,
I was raised in San Diego (Point Loma). We lived there from 1945 to 1962, until my parents moved "up North," to Oakland.

Have you gotten your DNA test results, what's your haplogroup?

Pat Silva Corbera

Mike Bernard Lopez wrote:
Hello list,
I joined this group several weeks back and have enjoyed reading your postings since then. My name is Michael Lopez, I live in San Diego County, I am recently retired and have decided to search for some genealogical history on my parents now that I have the time. My family of origin was "different" than most families in the sense that my parents came to America without any other family and never went back. Hence, I grew up without ever meeting any grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. My children gave me a xmas gift of participating in National Geographic's genographic project and I have become fascinated with the whole idea of genealogy and DNA. In any event here is what I know about my mother. Maria de Jesus Bravo was born in 1906 at a small ranchito named El Zapote, which was located about a mile or so outside the small village of La Ribera, Jalisco. La Rivera Jalisco is immediately adjacent to Yurecuaro, Michoacan and are separated by the Rio Lerma. So while mom
was born on the Jalisco side of the Rio Lerma, I think she was baptized in the Michoacan side at Yurecuaro. Mother's father was named Ladislao Bravo and her mother was named Maria ( Margarita?) Tinoco. Mom's maternal grandmother was named Estefania Rizo. My mother had 3 sisters whose names were Juana, Carmen and Luisa. She had one brother named Trinidad who married someone also named Trinidad. The families from El Zapote were "concentrated" to La Ribera during the Cristiada and I believe they remained there for most, perhaps all of their lives. My uncle Trinidad was killed during the Cristiada leaving a widow and (I think) one young son. I look forward to receiving your comments/suggestions/etc. I would like to thank Alicia of your group for the sincere encouragement she gave me to write this posting.
Michael

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Comentario

Hi Pat,
Thanks 4 the welcome note! Yes, I have received the dna results. I have been classified as Haplogroup R1b1c subject to an additional 3 SNP's that they have not obtained as yet (FTDNA). That in itself was most surprizing.
Thanks again,
Michael

Patricia Corbera wrote:
Welcome to NuestrosRanchos Michael,
I was raised in San Diego (Point Loma). We lived there from 1945 to 1962, until my parents moved "up North," to Oakland.

Have you gotten your DNA test results, what's your haplogroup?

Pat Silva Corbera

Mike Bernard Lopez wrote:
Hello list,
I joined this group several weeks back and have enjoyed reading your postings since then. My name is Michael Lopez, I live in San Diego County, I am recently retired and have decided to search for some genealogical history on my parents now that I have the time. My family of origin was "different" than most families in the sense that my parents came to America without any other family and never went back. Hence, I grew up without ever meeting any grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. My children gave me a xmas gift of participating in National Geographic's genographic project and I have become fascinated with the whole idea of genealogy and DNA. In any event here is what I know about my mother. Maria de Jesus Bravo was born in 1906 at a small ranchito named El Zapote, which was located about a mile or so outside the small village of La Ribera, Jalisco. La Rivera Jalisco is immediately adjacent to Yurecuaro, Michoacan and are separated by the Rio Lerma. So while mom
was born on the Jalisco side of the Rio Lerma, I think she was baptized in the Michoacan side at Yurecuaro. Mother's father was named Ladislao Bravo and her mother was named Maria ( Margarita?) Tinoco. Mom's maternal grandmother was named Estefania Rizo. My mother had 3 sisters whose names were Juana, Carmen and Luisa. She had one brother named Trinidad who married someone also named Trinidad. The families from El Zapote were "concentrated" to La Ribera during the Cristiada and I believe they remained there for most, perhaps all of their lives. My uncle Trinidad was killed during the Cristiada leaving a widow and (I think) one young son. I look forward to receiving your comments/suggestions/etc. I would like to thank Alicia of your group for the sincere encouragement she gave me to write this posting.
Michael

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Bautismos SECRETOS?

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hola a todos:

Comentarios

Comentario

Alessandro,
no escrivo el espanol muy bien...pero los bautismos secretos son los ninos que tien padres que no son casados.....

the secret baptisms are those that the parents are not married.....hence the child is a bastard...

Stella

-----Original Message-----
From: viteliky@hotmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 7:43 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

Hola a todos: 
 
En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en el que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro "secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a cualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era secreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto que pudieran proporcionarme. 
 
Alessandro 
 
******************************************************************************** 
 
Hello everyone: 
 
Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the film he is registered/christened is called "Secret Christenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal. Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can extend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret? What does it contain? Is by ch
ance, the baptized child a son of a violation, incest or something similar? I would appreciate very much any information related. 
 
Sincerely 
 
Alessandro 

Comentario

Esthela:

Thank you for your comment. You know what? About what you say, it is very strange saying the parents were not married because this child I am talking about is the 8th son (and the last-one) for the same parents. No doubt he is their son, I consider after 30 years living together and having 8 sons this couple of parents SHOULD be married. I really think they were married, and I think there must be another cause for this type of registration too.

But anyway, I hope to find out soon, I thank your comment and I take it just like that till new information comes out. This is my very 1st. hint.

LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA

Ser de Luz!!!

> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 22:48:11 -0400
> From: sjlstar@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
>
> Alessandro,
> no escrivo el espanol muy bien...pero los bautismos secretos son los ninos que tien padres que no son casados.....
>
> the secret baptisms are those that the parents are not married.....hence the child is a bastard...
>
> Stella
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: viteliky@hotmail.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 7:43 pm
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
>
>
> Hola a todos:
>
> En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en el que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro "secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a cualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era secreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto que pudieran proporcionarme.
>
> Alessandro
>
> ********************************************************************************
>
> Hello everyone:
>
> Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the film he is registered/christened is called "Secret Christenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal. Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can extend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret? What does it contain? Is by ch
> ance, the baptized child a son of a violation, incest or something similar? I would appreciate very much any information related.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Alessandro

Comentario

Alessandro,
I searched high and low for my grandmothers birth cert. could not find it, then the lady at the LDS center told me to look at the bautismos secretos......the illegite kids.........and yes I found her there.......my gr grandmother and this man had sex without being married....(conceiving my grandmother).....he begged her to marry him but no.........my gr grandmother then married someone else and five years later her first daughter was born, five more children none of them have their birth certs in the bautismos secretos.....this was 1906 when my grandmother was born...so yes it was very embarressing not to be married then
Stella

-----Original Message-----
From: ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:06 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

sthela:

Thank you for your comment. You know what? About what you say, it is very
trange saying the parents were not married because this child I am talking
bout is the 8th son (and the last-one) for the same parents. No doubt he is
heir son, I consider after 30 years living together and having 8 sons this
ouple of parents SHOULD be married. I really think they were married, and I
hink there must be another cause for this type of registration too.

But anyway, I hope to find out soon, I thank your comment and I take it just
ike that till new information comes out. This is my very 1st. hint.

LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA
Ser de Luz!!!

> To: rese
arch@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 22:48:11 -0400
From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

Alessandro,
no escrivo el espanol muy bien...pero los bautismos secretos son los ninos que
ien padres que no son casados.....

the secret baptisms are those that the parents are not married.....hence the
hild is a bastard...

Stella

-----Original Message-----
From: viteliky@hotmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 7:43 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

Hola a todos:

En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en el que se encuentra
l registro de su bautizo se llama "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia
atolica de Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro "secreto" me
orprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a cualquier persona que sepa sobre este
ema si me puede ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
ecreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño bautizado producto de
nsesto, violación o algo por el estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al
especto que pudieran proporcionarme.

Alessandro

********************************************************************************
>
Hello everyone:

Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the film he is
egistered/christened is called "Secret Christenings 1868-1900" at Church
ecords for Zapopan, Jal. Finding this type of "secr
et" record shoked me, I
ould like to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can extend or
xplain me more about this. Why was it secret? What does it contain? Is by ch
ance, the baptized child a son of a violation, incest or something similar? I
ould appreciate very much any information related.

Sincerely

Alessandro

Comentario

Thursday, July 9, 2009

I have seen and used a similar film from the Atotonilco el Alto area. The children listed, or in particular the one that I was researching, had both parents and both sets of grandparents on the Secret Baptismal microfilm. The child's father was married and the father apparently came for the child after his birth. I do not know what happened to the mother. I do have extensive records of her parents, siblings, and ancestors. I have similar records for the father.

The child grew up in the household of his father with half siblings and the father's wife. The half siblings, who all were apparently older, were reportedly very mean to the child. Nothing bad was said about the husband's wife. I did not know the child as he grew up and became a man but I did know his son Lorenzo.

Uncle Lorenzo was ashamed of his father's humble beginnings and did not tell me about his dad until he himself was a very old man. However, others in the family did tell me the family secret and I was able to get at the truth.

The child was also listed in the regular baptismal records with only his mother and maternal grandparents and padrinos.

It is said that about 1/3 of the children born in Mexico did not have legally wed parents. It is not for me/us to judge. I would have liked to have known all the facts about Uncle Lorenzo's father when I first started research in 1978 because it would have made my search a bit easier. However we learn things when we do and that is why we keep digging for the true facts.

Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
San Diego, Ca.
Researching in Ayo el Chico, Atotonilco el Alto, and La Barca, Jalisco

--- On Thu, 7/9/09, viteliky@hotmail.com wrote:

> From: viteliky@hotmail.com
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:43 PM
> Hola a todos:
>
> En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en
> el que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama
> "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de
> Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro
> "secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a
> cualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede
> ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
> secreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño
> bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el
> estilo?  Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto
> que pudieran proporcionarme.
>
> Alessandro
>
> ********************************************************************************
>
> Hello everyone:
>
> Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the
> film he is registered/christened is called "Secret
> Christenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal.
> Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like
> to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can
> extend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret?
> What does it contain? Is by chance, the baptized child a son
> of a violation, incest or something similar? I would
> appreciate very much any information related.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Alessandro

Comentario

Patricia,
no it is not for us to judge, and it just sickens me to know that from the beginning it was like my grandmother had to be hidden.  she also was treated horribly by her mothers husband and their children........in later years when they were adults of coarse they loved her and she forgot it all.......she was very religious....the stuff they did to her....was horrible and always brought up that she was illegit.........they spit in her food, her step dad would walk by while she was eating and pass gas right there next to her...........she was made to do all the work...........sheesh why didnt gr grandmother give her away??? so sad......
Stella

-----Original Message-----
From: patricia burton
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

hursday, July 9, 2009
I have seen and used a similar film from the Atotonilco el Alto area. The
hildren listed, or in particular the one that I was researching, had both
arents and both sets of grandparents on the Secret Baptismal microfilm. The
hild's father was married and the father apparently came for the child after
is birth. I do not know what happened to the mother. I do have extensive
ecords of her parents, siblings, and ancestors. I have similar records for the
ather.
The child grew up in the household of his father with half siblings and the
ather's wife. The half siblings, who all were apparently older, were
eportedly very m
ean to the child. Nothing bad was said about the husband's
ife. I did not know the child as he grew up and became a man but I did know
is son Lorenzo.
Uncle Lorenzo was ashamed of his father's humble beginnings and did not tell me
bout his dad until he himself was a very old man. However, others in the
amily did tell me the family secret and I was able to get at the truth.
The child was also listed in the regular baptismal records with only his mother
nd maternal grandparents and padrinos.
It is said that about 1/3 of the children born in Mexico did not have legally
ed parents. It is not for me/us to judge. I would have liked to have known
ll the facts about Uncle Lorenzo's father when I first started research in 1978
ecause it would have made my search a bit easier. However we learn things when
e do and that is why we keep digging for the true facts.
Sincerely,
atricia Burton
an Diego, Ca.
esearching in Ayo el Chico, Atotonilco el Alto, and La Barca, Jalisco

--- On Thu, 7/9/09, viteliky@hotmail.com wrote:
> From: viteliky@hotmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:43 PM
Hola a todos:

En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en
el que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama
"BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de
Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con es
te tipo de registro
"secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a
cualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede
ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
secreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño
bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el
estilo?  Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto
que pudieran proporcionarme.

Alessandro

********************************************************************************

Hello everyone:

Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the
film he is registered/christened is called "Secret
Christenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal.
Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like
to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can
extend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret?
What does it contain? Is by chance, the baptized child a son
of a violation, incest or something similar? I would
appreciate very much any information related.

Sincerely

Alessandro

Comentario

yes both my grandmothers parents were listed on the secret baptism, and so were the grandparents, but the parents were not married.

-----Original Message-----
From: patricia burton
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

hursday, July 9, 2009
I have seen and used a similar film from the Atotonilco el Alto area. The
hildren listed, or in particular the one that I was researching, had both
arents and both sets of grandparents on the Secret Baptismal microfilm. The
hild's father was married and the father apparently came for the child after
is birth. I do not know what happened to the mother. I do have extensive
ecords of her parents, siblings, and ancestors. I have similar records for the
ather.
The child grew up in the household of his father with half siblings and the
ather's wife. The half siblings, who all were apparently older, were
eportedly very mean to the child. Nothing bad was said about the husband's
ife. I did not know the child as he grew up and became a man but I did know
is son Lorenzo.
Uncle Lorenzo was ashamed of his father's humble beginnings and did not tell me
bout his dad until he himself was a very old man. However, others in the
amily did tell me the family secret and I was able to get at the truth.
The child was also listed in the regular baptismal records with only his mother
nd maternal grandparents
and padrinos.
It is said that about 1/3 of the children born in Mexico did not have legally
ed parents. It is not for me/us to judge. I would have liked to have known
ll the facts about Uncle Lorenzo's father when I first started research in 1978
ecause it would have made my search a bit easier. However we learn things when
e do and that is why we keep digging for the true facts.
Sincerely,
atricia Burton
an Diego, Ca.
esearching in Ayo el Chico, Atotonilco el Alto, and La Barca, Jalisco

--- On Thu, 7/9/09, viteliky@hotmail.com wrote:
> From: viteliky@hotmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:43 PM
Hola a todos:

En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en
el que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama
"BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de
Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro
"secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a
cualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede
ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
secreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño
bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el
estilo?  Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto
que pudieran proporcionarme.

Alessandro

********************************************************************************

Hello everyone:

R
esearching information about an ancestor, I found that the
film he is registered/christened is called "Secret
Christenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal.
Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like
to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can
extend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret?
What does it contain? Is by chance, the baptized child a son
of a violation, incest or something similar? I would
appreciate very much any information related.

Sincerely

Alessandro

Comentario

In Jerez they were a little kinder and called it hijos naturales but I found there were many people who were there as umarried but I had a marriage record for them.  As someone else said they had many children sometimes and one wonders who decided they belonged in this book.  In Jerez the film is 0439889 and covers 1867 to 1875.  Unfortunately I did not get to complete it.
 
Linda in Everett

--- On Thu, 7/9/09, ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO wrote:

From: ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 8:06 PM

Esthela:

Thank you for your comment. You know what? About what you say, it is very strange saying the parents were not married because this child I am talking about is the 8th son (and the last-one) for the same parents. No doubt he is their son, I consider after 30 years living together and having 8 sons this couple of parents SHOULD  be married. I really think they were married, and I think there must be another cause for this type of registration too.

But anyway, I hope to find out soon, I thank your comment and I take it just like that till new information comes out. This is my very 1st. hint.

LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA

Ser de Luz!!!

> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 22:48:11 -0400
> From: sjlstar@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
>
> Alessandro,
> no escrivo el espanol muy bien...pero los bautismos secretos son los ninos que tien padres que no son casados.....
>
> the secret baptisms are those that the parents are not married.....hence the child is a bastard...
>
> Stella
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: viteliky@hotmail.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 7:43 pm
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
>
>
> Hola a todos:
> 
> En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en el que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro "secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a cualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era secreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto que pudieran proporcionarme.
> 
> Alessandro
> 
> ********************************************************************************
> 
> Hello everyone:
> 
> Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the film he is registered/christened is called "Secret Christenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal. Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can extend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret? What does it contain? Is by ch
> ance, the baptized child a son of a violation, incest or something similar? I would appreciate very much any information related.
> 
> Sincerely
> 
> Alessandro

Comentario

I guess no one should be surprised to what lengths some will go to show their lack of humanity, even within their own families.
 
I used to think it rare when I heard of one sibling stealing a family inheritance from other brothers and sisters but not anymore. It happened in my fathers family and I heard of an old friend and it happened in his, and then an ex-girlfriend robbed her only brother (only surviving family member) of his share of inheritance. It makes you wonder. Rolando

--- On Thu, 7/9/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:

From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 11:03 PM

Patricia,
no it is not for us to judge, and it just sickens me to know that from the beginning it was like my grandmother had to be hidden.  she also was treated horribly by her mothers husband and their children........in later years when they were adults of coarse they loved her and she forgot it all.......she was very religious....the stuff they did to her....was horrible and always brought up that she was illegit.........they spit in her food, her step dad would walk by while she was eating and pass gas right there next to her...........she was made to do all the work...........sheesh why didnt gr grandmother give her away??? so sad......
Stella

-----Original Message-----
From: patricia burton
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

hursday, July 9, 2009
I have seen and used a similar film from the Atotonilco el Alto area.  The
hildren listed, or in particular the one that I was researching, had both
arents and both sets of grandparents on the Secret Baptismal microfilm.  The
hild's father was married and the father apparently came for the child after
is birth.  I do not know what happened to the mother.  I do have extensive
ecords of her parents, siblings, and ancestors.  I have similar records for the
ather.
The child grew up in the household of his father with half siblings and the
ather's wife.  The half siblings, who all were apparently older, were
eportedly very m
ean to the child.  Nothing bad was said about the husband's
ife.  I did not know the child as he grew up and became a man but I did know
is son Lorenzo. 
Uncle Lorenzo was ashamed of his father's humble beginnings and did not tell me
bout his dad until he himself was a very old man.  However, others in the
amily did tell me the family secret and I was able to get at the truth.
The child was also listed in the regular baptismal records with only his mother
nd maternal grandparents and padrinos. 
It is said that about 1/3 of the children born in Mexico did not have legally
ed parents.  It is not for me/us to judge.  I would have liked to have known
ll the facts about Uncle Lorenzo's father when I first started research in 1978
ecause it would have made my search a bit easier.  However we learn things when
e do and that is why we keep digging for the true facts.
Sincerely,
atricia Burton
an Diego, Ca.
esearching in Ayo el Chico, Atotonilco el Alto, and La Barca, Jalisco
   
--- On Thu, 7/9/09, viteliky@hotmail.com wrote:
> From: viteliky@hotmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:43 PM
Hola a todos:

En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en
el que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama
"BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de
Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con es
te tipo de registro
"secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a
cualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede
ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
secreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño
bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el
estilo?  Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto
que pudieran proporcionarme.

Alessandro

********************************************************************************

Hello everyone:

Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the
film he is registered/christened is called "Secret
Christenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal.
Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like
to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can
extend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret?
What does it contain? Is by chance, the baptized child a son
of a violation, incest or something similar? I would
appreciate very much any information related.

Sincerely

Alessandro

Comentario

Rolando,
are we related??..............lol
My gr gr grandmother/father left my grandmother an inheritance.......and yes those half siblings stole it!  they and their parents were left nothing for the way they treated my grandmother.    My grandmothers mother somehow did some kind of shannanigans and took it from my grandmother and gave it to her other kids, cause it wasn't fair that their grandparents left them nothing......if you knew my granmother you would of loved her, everyone did....no bitterness for the way her life turned out.
Stella
we dig all this stuff up huh?

-----Original Message-----
From: Rolando Romo
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 10, 2009 12:05 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

I guess no one should be surprised to what lengths some will go to show their
ack of humanity, even within their own families.

used to think it rare when I heard of one sibling stealing a family
nheritance from other brothers and sisters but not anymore. It happened in my
athers family and I heard of an old friend and it happened in his, and then an
x-girlfriend robbed her only brother (only surviving family member) of his
hare of inheritance. It makes you wonder. Rolando
--- On Thu, 7/9/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:

rom: sjlstar@aol.com
ubject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
o: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ate: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 11:03 PM

atricia,
o it is not for us to judge, and it just
sickens me to know that from the
eginning it was like my grandmother had to be hidden.  she also was treated
orribly by her mothers husband and their children........in later years when
hey were adults of coarse they loved her and she forgot it all.......she was
ery religious....the stuff they did to her....was horrible and always brought
p that she was illegit.........they spit in her food, her step dad would walk
y while she was eating and pass gas right there next to her...........she was
ade to do all the work...........sheesh why didnt gr grandmother give her
way??? so sad......
tella

----Original Message-----
rom: patricia burton
o: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:48 pm
ubject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

ursday, July 9, 2009
have seen and used a similar film from the Atotonilco el Alto area.  The
ildren listed, or in particular the one that I was researching, had both
rents and both sets of grandparents on the Secret Baptismal microfilm.  The
ild's father was married and the father apparently came for the child after
s birth.  I do not know what happened to the mother.  I do have extensive
cords of her parents, siblings, and ancestors.  I have similar records for the
ther.
he child grew up in the household of his father with half siblings and the
ther's wife.  The half siblings, who all were apparently older, were
portedly very m
an to the child.  Nothing bad was said about
the husband's
fe.  I did not know the child as he grew up and became a man but I did know
s son Lorenzo. 
ncle Lorenzo was ashamed of his father's humble beginnings and did not tell me
out his dad until he himself was a very old man.  However, others in the
mily did tell me the family secret and I was able to get at the truth.
he child was also listed in the regular baptismal records with only his mother
d maternal grandparents and padrinos. 
t is said that about 1/3 of the children born in Mexico did not have legally
d parents.  It is not for me/us to judge.  I would have liked to have known
l the facts about Uncle Lorenzo's father when I first started research in 1978
cause it would have made my search a bit easier.  However we learn things when
do and that is why we keep digging for the true facts.
incerely,
tricia Burton
n Diego, Ca.
searching in Ayo el Chico, Atotonilco el Alto, and La Barca, Jalisco
  
-- On Thu, 7/9/09, viteliky@hotmail.com wrote:
From: viteliky@hotmail.com
ubject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
o: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ate: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:43 PM
ola a todos:
En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en
l que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama
BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de
apopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con es
e tipo de registro
secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle20a
ualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede
mpliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
ecreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño
autizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el
stilo?  Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto
ue pudieran proporcionarme.
Alessandro
********************************************************************************
Hello everyone:
Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the
ilm he is registered/christened is called "Secret
hristenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal.
inding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like
o ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can
xtend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret?
hat does it contain? Is by chance, the baptized child a son
f a violation, incest or something similar? I would
ppreciate very much any information related.
Sincerely
Alessandro

Comentario

Yes you don't have to dig too deep or too far to find this kind of thing. It is one of those major sins - greed.
 
My father was falsely accused of hoarding his father's inheritance for himself and a sister convinced the majority of her siblings to support her and she convinced my grandmother, on her deathbed, to make her the executor of my grandmother's will. Needless to say, that the sister not only took everything for herself and didn't even share with her siblings that had supported her but she refused to make repairs on properties and pay taxes. She lost it all and none of the other brothers and sisters ever saw a dime. My father had been giving them all a small share of the benefits and putting most of the money back to repairs and taxes. Their greed didn't pay off in the long run. The fact is that Dad didn't care so much about the money but how his siblings, with a few exceptions, turned on him. It has hurt him deeply. All of his brothers and sisters are gone now, except for one - guess which one? She cries whenever she sees my Dad - I guess there is some
guilt there, good!

I suspect that many families have come apart due to such conflicts. It will be interesting to see what happens to the family of Michael Jackson.

--- On Fri, 7/10/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:

From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 4:10 PM

Rolando,
are we related??..............lol
My gr gr grandmother/father left my grandmother an inheritance.......and yes those half siblings stole it!  they and their parents were left nothing for the way they treated my grandmother.    My grandmothers mother somehow did some kind of shannanigans and took it from my grandmother and gave it to her other kids, cause it wasn't fair that their grandparents left them nothing......if you knew my granmother you would of loved her, everyone did....no bitterness for the way her life turned out.
Stella
we dig all this stuff up huh?

-----Original Message-----
From: Rolando Romo
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 10, 2009 12:05 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

I guess no one should be surprised to what lengths some will go to show their
ack of humanity, even within their own families.

used to think it rare when I heard of one sibling stealing a family
nheritance from other brothers and sisters but not anymore. It happened in my
athers family and I heard of an old friend and it happened in his, and then an
x-girlfriend robbed her only brother (only surviving family member) of his
hare of inheritance. It makes you wonder. Rolando
--- On Thu, 7/9/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:

rom: sjlstar@aol.com
ubject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
o: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ate: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 11:03 PM

atricia,
o it is not for us to judge, and it just
sickens me to know that from the
eginning it was like my grandmother had to be hidden.  she also was treated
orribly by her mothers husband and their children........in later years when
hey were adults of coarse they loved her and she forgot it all.......she was
ery religious....the stuff they did to her....was horrible and always brought
p that she was illegit.........they spit in her food, her step dad would walk
y while she was eating and pass gas right there next to her...........she was
ade to do all the work...........sheesh why didnt gr grandmother give her
way??? so sad......
tella

----Original Message-----
rom: patricia burton
o: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:48 pm
ubject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

ursday, July 9, 2009
have seen and used a similar film from the Atotonilco el Alto area.  The
ildren listed, or in particular the one that I was researching, had both
rents and both sets of grandparents on the Secret Baptismal microfilm.  The
ild's father was married and the father apparently came for the child after
s birth.  I do not know what happened to the mother.  I do have extensive
cords of her parents, siblings, and ancestors.  I have similar records for the
ther.
he child grew up in the household of his father with half siblings and the
ther's wife.  The half siblings, who all were apparently older, were
portedly very m
an to the child.  Nothing bad was said about
the husband's
fe.  I did not know the child as he grew up and became a man but I did know
s son Lorenzo. 
ncle Lorenzo was ashamed of his father's humble beginnings and did not tell me
out his dad until he himself was a very old man.  However, others in the
mily did tell me the family secret and I was able to get at the truth.
he child was also listed in the regular baptismal records with only his mother
d maternal grandparents and padrinos. 
t is said that about 1/3 of the children born in Mexico did not have legally
d parents.  It is not for me/us to judge.  I would have liked to have known
l the facts about Uncle Lorenzo's father when I first started research in 1978
cause it would have made my search a bit easier.  However we learn things when
do and that is why we keep digging for the true facts.
incerely,
tricia Burton
n Diego, Ca.
searching in Ayo el Chico, Atotonilco el Alto, and La Barca, Jalisco
  
-- On Thu, 7/9/09, viteliky@hotmail.com wrote:
From: viteliky@hotmail.com
ubject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
o: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ate: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:43 PM
ola a todos:
En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en
l que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama
BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de
apopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con es
e tipo de registro
secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle20a
ualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede
mpliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
ecreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño
autizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el
stilo?  Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto
ue pudieran proporcionarme.
Alessandro
********************************************************************************
Hello everyone:
Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the
ilm he is registered/christened is called "Secret
hristenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal.
inding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like
o ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can
xtend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret?
hat does it contain? Is by chance, the baptized child a son
f a violation, incest or something similar? I would
ppreciate very much any information related.
Sincerely
Alessandro

Comentario

I suspect that many families have come apart due to such conflicts. It will be
nteresting to see what happens to the family of Michael Jackson.

Soooo true.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rolando Romo
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 10, 2009 2:22 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

Yes you don't have to dig too deep or too far to find this kind of thing. It is
ne of those major sins - greed.

y father was falsely accused of hoarding his father's inheritance for himself
nd a sister convinced the majority of her siblings to support her and she
onvinced my grandmother, on her deathbed, to make her the executor of my
randmother's will. Needless to say, that the sister not only took everything
or herself and didn't even share with her siblings that had supported her but
he refused to make repairs on properties and pay taxes. She lost it all and
one of the other brothers and sisters ever saw a dime. My father had been
iving them all a small share of the benefits and putting most of the money back
o repairs and taxes. Their greed didn't pay off in the long run. The fact is
hat Dad didn't care so much about the money but how his siblings, with a few
xceptions, turned on him. It has hurt him deeply. All of his brothers and
isters are gone now, except for one - guess which one? She cries whenever she
ees my Dad - I guess there is some
guilt there, good!
I suspect that ma
ny families have come apart due to such conflicts. It will be
nteresting to see what happens to the family of Michael Jackson.
--- On Fri, 7/10/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:

rom: sjlstar@aol.com
ubject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
o: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ate: Friday, July 10, 2009, 4:10 PM

olando,
re we related??..............lol
y gr gr grandmother/father left my grandmother an inheritance.......and yes
hose half siblings stole it!  they and their parents were left nothing for the
ay they treated my grandmother.    My grandmothers mother somehow did some kind
f shannanigans and took it from my grandmother and gave it to her other kids,
ause it wasn't fair that their grandparents left them nothing......if you knew
y granmother you would of loved her, everyone did....no bitterness for the way
er life turned out.
tella
e dig all this stuff up huh?

----Original Message-----
rom: Rolando Romo
o: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ent: Fri, Jul 10, 2009 12:05 pm
ubject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

I guess no one should be surprised to what lengths some will go to show their
ck of humanity, even within their own families.
used to think it rare when I heard of one sibling stealing a family
heritance from other brothers and sisters but not anymore. It happened in my
thers family and I heard of an old friend and it happened in his, and then an
-girlfriend robbed her only brother (only surviving family member
) of his
are of inheritance. It makes you wonder. Rolando
-- On Thu, 7/9/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:
rom: sjlstar@aol.com
bject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
: research@nuestrosranchos.org
te: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 11:03 PM
atricia,
it is not for us to judge, and it just
ickens me to know that from the
ginning it was like my grandmother had to be hidden.  she also was treated
rribly by her mothers husband and their children........in later years when
ey were adults of coarse they loved her and she forgot it all.......she was
ry religious....the stuff they did to her....was horrible and always brought
that she was illegit.........they spit in her food, her step dad would walk
while she was eating and pass gas right there next to her...........she was
de to do all the work...........sheesh why didnt gr grandmother give her
ay??? so sad......
ella
----Original Message-----
om: patricia burton
: research@nuestrosranchos.org
nt: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:48 pm
bject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

rsday, July 9, 2009
ave seen and used a similar film from the Atotonilco el Alto area.  The
ldren listed, or in particular the one that I was researching, had both
ents and both sets of grandparents on the Secret Baptismal microfilm.  The
ld's father was married and the father apparently came for the child after
birth.  I do not know what happened to the mother.  I do have extensive
ords of her
parents, siblings, and ancestors.  I have similar records for the
her.
e child grew up in the household of his father with half siblings and the
her's wife.  The half siblings, who all were apparently older, were
ortedly very m
n to the child.  Nothing bad was said about
he husband's
e.  I did not know the child as he grew up and became a man but I did know
son Lorenzo. 
cle Lorenzo was ashamed of his father's humble beginnings and did not tell me
ut his dad until he himself was a very old man.  However, others in the
ily did tell me the family secret and I was able to get at the truth.
e child was also listed in the regular baptismal records with only his mother
maternal grandparents and padrinos. 
is said that about 1/3 of the children born in Mexico did not have legally
parents.  It is not for me/us to judge.  I would have liked to have known
the facts about Uncle Lorenzo's father when I first started research in 1978
ause it would have made my search a bit easier.  However we learn things when
o and that is why we keep digging for the true facts.
ncerely,
ricia Burton
Diego, Ca.
earching in Ayo el Chico, Atotonilco el Alto, and La Barca, Jalisco
 
- On Thu, 7/9/09, viteliky@hotmail.com wrote:
rom: viteliky@hotmail.com
bject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
te: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:43 PM
la a todos:
n busqueda20de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en
que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama
AUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de
popan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con es
tipo de registro
ecreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle20a
alquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede
pliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
creto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño
utizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el
tilo?  Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto
e pudieran proporcionarme.
lessandro
*******************************************************************************
ello everyone:
esearching information about an ancestor, I found that the
lm he is registered/christened is called "Secret
ristenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal.
nding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like
ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can
tend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret?
at does it contain? Is by chance, the baptized child a son
a violation, incest or something similar? I would
preciate very much any information related.
incerely
lessandro

Comentario

My husband's great grandmother said when she was young the priests would record baptisms in the book of "hijos naturales" if the father was not present for the baptism. Even if the priest knew the parents were married. She said the priests would not take anyone's word, but the father's that the child was legitimate.

> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:51:06 -0700
> From: longsjourney@yahoo.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
>
> In Jerez they were a little kinder and called it hijos naturales but I found there were many people who were there as umarried but I had a marriage record for them. As someone else said they had many children sometimes and one wonders who decided they belonged in this book. In Jerez the film is 0439889 and covers 1867 to 1875. Unfortunately I did not get to complete it.
>
> Linda in Everett
>
> --- On Thu, 7/9/09, ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO wrote:
>
>
> From: ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 8:06 PM
>
>
>
> Esthela:
>
>
>
> Thank you for your comment. You know what? About what you say, it is very strange saying the parents were not married because this child I am talking about is the 8th son (and the last-one) for the same parents. No doubt he is their son, I consider after 30 years living together and having 8 sons this couple of parents SHOULD be married. I really think they were married, and I think there must be another cause for this type of registration too.
>
>
>
> But anyway, I hope to find out soon, I thank your comment and I take it just like that till new information comes out. This is my very 1st. hint.
>
>
>
>
> LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA
>
> Ser de Luz!!!
>
>
>
>
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 22:48:11 -0400
> > From: sjlstar@aol.com
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
> >
> > Alessandro,
> > no escrivo el espanol muy bien...pero los bautismos secretos son los ninos que tien padres que no son casados.....
> >
> > the secret baptisms are those that the parents are not married.....hence the child is a bastard...
> >
> > Stella
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: viteliky@hotmail.com
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 7:43 pm
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
> >
> >
> > Hola a todos:
> >
> > En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en el que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro "secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a cualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era secreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto que pudieran proporcionarme.
> >
> > Alessandro
> >
> > ********************************************************************************
> >
> > Hello everyone:
> >
> > Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the film he is registered/christened is called "Secret Christenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal. Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can extend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret? What does it contain? Is by ch
> > ance, the baptized child a son of a violation, incest or something similar? I would appreciate very much any information related.
> >
> > Sincerely
> >
> > Alessandro
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Y tú, ¿ya actualizaste tu Perfil?
> http://www.actualizatuperfil.com.mx/

Comentario

books are not secrets that are not classified as natural children, as in
tepetongo zacatecas Baptisms 1843-1860,1862-1919 of natural children - FHL
INTL Film [1158157]
no son libros secretos sin que estan catalogados como hijos naturales , como
en tepetongo zacatecas Bautismos de hijos naturales 1843-1860,1862-1919 -
FHL INTL Film [ 1158157 ]

2009/7/16 Lona Rivera

>
> My husband's great grandmother said when she was young the priests would
> record baptisms in the book of "hijos naturales" if the father was not
> present for the baptism. Even if the priest knew the parents were married.
> She said the priests would not take anyone's word, but the father's that the
> child was legitimate.
>
> > Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:51:06 -0700
> > From: longsjourney@yahoo.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
> >
> > In Jerez they were a little kinder and called it hijos naturales but I
> found there were many people who were there as umarried but I had a marriage
> record for them. As someone else said they had many children sometimes and
> one wonders who decided they belonged in this book. In Jerez the film is
> 0439889 and covers 1867 to 1875. Unfortunately I did not get to complete
> it.
> >
> > Linda in Everett
> >
> > --- On Thu, 7/9/09, ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 8:06 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Esthela:
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your comment. You know what? About what you say, it is very
> strange saying the parents were not married because this child I am talking
> about is the 8th son (and the last-one) for the same parents. No doubt he is
> their son, I consider after 30 years living together and having 8 sons this
> couple of parents SHOULD be married. I really think they were married, and
> I think there must be another cause for this type of registration too.
> >
> >
> >
> > But anyway, I hope to find out soon, I thank your comment and I take it
> just like that till new information comes out. This is my very 1st. hint.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA
> >
> > Ser de Luz!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 22:48:11 -0400
> > > From: sjlstar@aol.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
> > >
> > > Alessandro,
> > > no escrivo el espanol muy bien...pero los bautismos secretos son los
> ninos que tien padres que no son casados.....
> > >
> > > the secret baptisms are those that the parents are not
> married.....hence the child is a bastard...
> > >
> > > Stella
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: viteliky@hotmail.com
> > > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 7:43 pm
> > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
> > >
> > >
> > > Hola a todos:
> > >
> > > En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en el que se
> encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900"
> de la Iglesia catolica de Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de
> registro "secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a cualquier
> persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede ampliar o ilustrar con
> informacion al respecto. Porque era secreto? Que es lo que puede contener?
> Es acaso el niño bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el
> estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto que pudieran
> proporcionarme.
> > >
> > > Alessandro
> > >
> > >
> ********************************************************************************
> > >
> > > Hello everyone:
> > >
> > > Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the film he is
> registered/christened is called "Secret Christenings 1868-1900" at Church
> records for Zapopan, Jal. Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I
> would like to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can extend
> or explain me more about this. Why was it secret? What does it contain? Is
> by ch
> > > ance, the baptized child a son of a violation, incest or something
> similar? I would appreciate very much any information related.
> > >
> > > Sincerely
> > >
> > > Alessandro
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Y tú, ¿ya actualizaste tu Perfil?
> > http://www.actualizatuperfil.com.mx/
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync.
> http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009

Comentario

Thank you Esthela, I get the point. It is just it sounded strange to me.

LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA

Ser de Luz!!!

> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 23:29:44 -0400
> From: sjlstar@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
>
> Alessandro,
> I searched high and low for my grandmothers birth cert. could not find it, then the lady at the LDS center told me to look at the bautismos secretos......the illegite kids.........and yes I found her there.......my gr grandmother and this man had sex without being married....(conceiving my grandmother).....he begged her to marry him but no.........my gr grandmother then married someone else and five years later her first daughter was born, five more children none of them have their birth certs in the bautismos secretos.....this was 1906 when my grandmother was born...so yes it was very embarressing not to be married then
> Stella
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:06 pm
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
>
>
>
>
> sthela:
>
> Thank you for your comment. You know what? About what you say, it is very
> trange saying the parents were not married because this child I am talking
> bout is the 8th son (and the last-one) for the same parents. No doubt he is
> heir son, I consider after 30 years living together and having 8 sons this
> ouple of parents SHOULD be married. I really think they were married, and I
> hink there must be another cause for this type of registration too.
>
> But anyway, I hope to find out soon, I thank your comment and I take it just
> ike that till new information comes out. This is my very 1st. hint.
>
>
> LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA
> Ser de Luz!!!
>
>
> > To: rese
> arch@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 22:48:11 -0400
> From: sjlstar@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
>
> Alessandro,
> no escrivo el espanol muy bien...pero los bautismos secretos son los ninos que
> ien padres que no son casados.....
>
> the secret baptisms are those that the parents are not married.....hence the
> hild is a bastard...
>
> Stella
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: viteliky@hotmail.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 7:43 pm
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
>
>
> Hola a todos:
>
> En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en el que se encuentra
> l registro de su bautizo se llama "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia
> atolica de Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro "secreto" me
> orprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a cualquier persona que sepa sobre este
> ema si me puede ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
> ecreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño bautizado producto de
> nsesto, violación o algo por el estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al
> especto que pudieran proporcionarme.
>
> Alessandro
>
> ********************************************************************************
> >
> Hello everyone:
>
> Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the film he is
> egistered/christened is called "Secret Christenings 1868-1900" at Church
> ecords for Zapopan, Jal. Finding this type of "secr
> et" record shoked me, I
> ould like to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can extend or
> xplain me more about this. Why was it secret? What does it contain? Is by ch
> ance, the baptized child a son of a violation, incest or something similar? I
> ould appreciate very much any information related.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Alessandro

Comentario

Oh my gosh yes Alessandro its very strange!!!
How do you think I felt when this lady told me to look in the Bautismos SECRETOS........what the heck was this? secretos??? secrets???? what???  then I  find my grandmother.....and why she is there and I tell my mother and she tells me...dont tell your grandmother!!!!......(about the baptism)  My mother really hates that that I do this geneology.....doesn't like me finding out the family secrets.......lol.......later my gr grandmother married her first cousin and had these horrible siblings that made life very difficult for my grandmother.
Stella

-----Original Message-----
From: ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 10, 2009 2:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

hank you Esthela, I get the point. It is just it sounded strange to me.

IC. ALESSANDRO VITELA
Ser de Luz!!!

> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 23:29:44 -0400
From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

Alessandro,
I searched high and low for my grandmothers birth cert. could not find it,
hen the lady at the LDS center told me to look at the bautismos
ecretos......the illegite kids.........and yes I found her there.......my gr
randmother and this man had sex without being married....(conceiving my
randmother).....he begged her to marry him but no.........my gr grandmother
hen married someone else and five years later her first daughter was born, five
ore ch
ildren none of them have their birth certs in the bautismos
ecretos.....this was 1906 when my grandmother was born...so yes it was very
mbarressing not to be married then
Stella

-----Original Message-----
From: ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:06 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

sthela:

Thank you for your comment. You know what? About what you say, it is very
trange saying the parents were not married because this child I am talking
bout is the 8th son (and the last-one) for the same parents. No doubt he is
heir son, I consider after 30 years living together and having 8 sons this
ouple of parents SHOULD be married. I really think they were married, and I
hink there must be another cause for this type of registration too.

But anyway, I hope to find out soon, I thank your comment and I take it just
ike that till new information comes out. This is my very 1st. hint.

LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA
Ser de Luz!!!

> To: rese
arch@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 22:48:11 -0400
From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

Alessandro,
no escrivo el espanol muy bien...pero los bautismos secretos son los ninos que
> ien padres que no son casados.....

the secret baptisms are those that the parents are not married.....hence the
hild is a bastard...

Stella0D

-----Original Message-----
From: viteliky@hotmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 7:43 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?

Hola a todos:

En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en el que se encuentra
> l registro de su bautizo se llama "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia
> atolica de Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro "secreto"
e
orprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a cualquier persona que sepa sobre este
> ema si me puede ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
ecreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño bautizado producto de
nsesto, violación o algo por el estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al
especto que pudieran proporcionarme.

Alessandro

********************************************************************************
> >
Hello everyone:

Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the film he is
egistered/christened is called "Secret Christenings 1868-1900" at Church
ecords for Zapopan, Jal. Finding this type of "secr
et" record shoked me, I
ould like to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can extend or
xplain me more about this. Why was it secret? What does it contain? Is by ch
ance, the baptized child a son of a violation, incest or something similar? I
ould appreciate very much any information related.

Sincerely

Alessa
ndro

Comentario

I don't know about secret baptisms in the 1800's. However, during the Mexican Revolution in the early 1900's many Catholic Church officials had to go underground and were often killed or imprisoned for performing religious rites.

I had an aunt that was born in Mexico during the time of the revolution and my grandfather took her to a priest during the night and had her secretly baptized in order not to get both the priest and my grandfather in trouble with the revolutionaries. Yes, my grandfather and grandmother were legally married in Monterrey and my grandmother stayed at home that night in order to take care of my uncle who was a toddler at that time. My grandparents eventually moved to Texas to escape the violence of the revolution. With the exception of one cousin (that now lives in Monterrey) our entire family of descendants from my grandparents still live in the USA.

Comentario

I don't know about secret baptisms in the 1800's. However, during the Mexican Revolution in the early 1900's many Catholic Church officials had to go underground and were often killed or imprisoned for performing religious rites.

I had an aunt that was born in Mexico during the time of the revolution and my grandfather took her to a priest during the night and had her secretly baptized in order not to get both the priest and my grandfather in trouble with the revolutionaries. Yes, my grandfather and grandmother were legally married in Monterrey and my grandmother stayed at home that night in order to take care of my uncle who was a toddler at that time. My grandparents eventually moved to Texas to escape the violence of the revolution. With the exception of one cousin (that now lives in Monterrey) our entire family of descendants from my grandparents still live in the USA.

Andres Martines e Isabel Miramontes

Published by arturobuco –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hola, I was wondering if anyone knew when Ysabel Miramontes and Andres Martines Correa got married. They lived in tlaltenango in the 1600's, any help is appreciated!

Comentarios

Comentario

I can share what little I know.

I have a notation from Arturo Ramos' website (the site isn't working anymore, so I can't give you a URL. In it, he provided this information:

# [S4] Jerez Baptisms 1651, de la Torre Berumen, Leonardo (transcription).
BERUMEN DE VERA Bernardo, español, bautizado el 12 de junio de 1659, e hijo legítimo de Francisco Berumen y de doña Juana de Vera, su mujer, españoles, vecinos del partido de Tlaltenango. Padrinos: Andrés Martín e Isabel de Miramontes, su mujer, españoles, vecinos del partido de Tlaltenango.

In this transcription, Andres and Isabel are noted as a married couple, so presumably they are married by 1651.

I hope this helps!

Rodrigo Carvajal y Figueroa

Published by Jesus Ibarra –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Buenas tardes a todos

Comentarios

Comentario

A mí me gustaría saber también. Tal vez esto sea de útil:

FIGUEROA, Doña Francisca de
Supuestamente casó con el conquistador novohispano Rodrigo de Carvajal Ulloa, sin embargo, la gran diferencia de edad entre marido y mujer -por lo menos tres décadas- permite dudar mucho de esta hipótesis (Fernández, 1999a: 242s). Su verdadero marido fue Rodrigo de Carvajal, terrateniente, minero y vecino de Guadalajara y Xocotlán.
Hija del conquistador -más bien poblador- Francisco de Figueroa y de María de Bañuelos. Esposa de Rodrigo de Carvajal. Vivía con su marido en Aguacatlán, Nayarit. Sus hijos fueron primero: Doña Isabel de Carvajal y Figueroa,segunda mujer de Don Gabriel de Águila. Cuando Doña Isabel se casó, Doña Francisca y su marido dieron a Don Gabriel en dote, joyas, preseas y esclavos, todo por un valor de 3,500 pesos (Amaya Topete, 1951: 4 y 33; Palomino y Cañedo, 1972: 204).
La segunda hija era Francisca de Carvajal, casada en 1597 en Colima con el escribano Toribio de Casso, con varios hijos; y a partir de 1602 o poco después, mujer de Juan Fernández de Ocampo o Juan Fernández Lázaro, alguacil mayor propietario de Colima, con uno o varios hijos como descendencia; la tercera se llamaba Doña Catalina de Carvajal, la primera mujer de Juan de Ávalos Saavedra, al menos con Don Francisco Delgadillo Carvajal como descendencia; la cuarta era Doña Ana de Carvajal (o Doña María o Doña Antonia de Carvajal), mujer del Lic. Francisco Tello de Orozco, con quien tuvo 4 varones y 1 hembra como hijos.
Fuente:
Diccionario Occidente Novohispano
Autor: Thomas Hellerkuss.
Universidad Autonoma de Zacatecas

MIguel Rodríguez de Santa Ana y Sebastiana Pérez de Frías

Published by RJQ –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hi fellow researchers, I've been inactive in genealogy for quite a bit, true it is that I'm almost "retiring" from it, a least to some extent, as I kind of answered the two / three questions I had whe

Comentarios

Comentario

Great find, Alex. Dolores, what this is, is an “informacion matrimonial,” which is a marriage investigation, this one being for an Indian couple named Juan Martin and Juana de la Cruz. Matheo Perez de Frias was one of the 3 witnesses they presented to verify that they were eligible to marry. He gave his testimony on 20 Oct 1672, in Nochistlan, and he’s introduced as “Español” (of the Spanish caste), “dueño de estancia” (he owned a hacienda), he was a resident of said jurisdiction, and he was married. He goes on to say that he knew the couple and that they were both eligible to marry; at the end of his testimony, he gives his age as 54 years, and then it says he didn’t sign his name, because he didn’t know how to.

Saludos,
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Comentario

Dolores asked:

“Do you have any theories on why or how Matheo could be a Perez de Frias from the family noted but not documented anywhere?”

The answer is no, other than the lack of records from that era, and the lack of access to the existing records. According to his burial record, Matheo did leave a will - in which he likely names his parents. But we just don’t have access to that record, and I wouldn’t know where to look for it.

I was looking through the Nochistlan confirmations for the year 1666 (31 dec?), and 2 Jan 1667; on those 2 days, eight children of Matheo Perez de Frias & Tomasa de la Cruz were confirmed: Sebastian, Francisco, Geronimo, Joseph, Juan, Matheo, Andres and Sebastiana. Sebastiana is the only one I previously had a record for. They baptized another Juan on 26 Jul 1674, so this earlier one might have died. In total, I have them with 16 children! Prolific! Chalk it up to no TV. :D

On the 1666 date, Matheo Perez was padrino for the confirmations of:
Hernando hijo de Diego Perez y Catalina de Islas
Pedro hijo de Lorenço Mexia y Josepha de Paz difunta
Geronimo hijo de Martin Cortez y Francisca Maria
Juan Martin hijo de Ygnacio Balthasar y Maria Catalina
Juan hijo de Juan Martin y Maria

On 2 Jan 1667, he was padrino of:
Jů de Renteria hijo de Diego Delgadillo y Petrona de Isla
On that same day, Tomasa de la Cruz was madrina for:
Ysabel hija de Jů de Torres y Josepha de la Cruz (her sister)

At least we know that Matheo Perez de Frias and contact with Diego Perez de Frias, but this doesn’t establish that they were brothers.

This is curious: here’s what it says on the 10 Dec 1679 baptism record for Theresa, daughter of Matheo Perez and Theresa de la Cruz:

“puse olios y chrisma a Theressa haviendo echado el agua de bautismo en necesidad el Pᵉ Fʳ Franº Lopez del orden de La Merced; hija lixᵐª de Matheo Perez de friaz y de Thomassa de la Cruz M Maria Baez abuela del Baptissad- vezⁿª desta feligª.”

Of interest is the madrina - Maria Baez. She is identified as “abuela del Baptissad-.” Unfortunately, the last letter of the word “Baptissad-“ is in superscript, and we don’t know if it’s an “a” or an”o.” “Baptisado/a” is the past participle “baptized,” and used as an adjective, the same as in English, so it should be talking about the person baptized - Theresa. But the preposition/article used is “del,” implying that the word is masculine, so the missing letter would be an “o.” If so, could it mean the one who baptized the child - Padre Frai Francisco? But the Spanish word for “baptizer” is “bautista”!
I’m thinking that Maria Baez is the grandmother of the “baptized,” because if she were grandmother of the “baptizer,” normal practice would say “abuela del dho Pᵉ Fʳ Franº Lopez.” Anyone?
And if she was the grandmother of Theresa, we know that her maternal grandmother was Maria de Gabay y Navarro, so Maria Baez would have to be her paternal grandmother.

Of course, it is possible that this is all just a notary’s error.

Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Comentario

Hi Mercelina,

Muy interesante la información de los orígenes del apellido, gracias por compartir.

Me está que en éste caso, el origen toponímico es posiblemente el mas correcto cuando se añade al final de otro apellido (previo al uso del apellido materno como regla) por ejemplo Rdz de Santa Ana, López de Santa Ana, Gómez de Sta. Ana, etc.

Comentario

Dear R.J
In my records,he was only known as Miguel Rodriguez de Santa Ana and not Nicolas. I mistakenly wrote Nicolas when I wrote the post. I guess I also had on my mind Marcelina's comment regarding having more information on Nicolas Munguia/Murguia who has nothing to do with Miguel Rodriguez de Santa Ana.

Sorry,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Hi Rick,

Thank you for the clarification, for a moment I thought that probably it was the way it appeared on José Luís Vqz y Rdz de Frias book, Genealogías de Nochistlán... I've never seen the book thus I wasn't sure if that was an additional name.

Comentario

Hola R.J.

Hay ciertos datos en Ancestry, aunque no señalan las fuentes, por lo que deben tomarse con cautela:
Hernando Pérez de Frías casó con Andrea de Rodas y fueron padres de:

Luis Pérez de Frías que se casó con Melchora de los Carbajal, fueron padres de:

1. Hernando Pérez de Frías que casó Gertrudis de Mercado.

2. María Pérez de Frías (1622-1693) casó con Diego Moscoso Sandoval.

3. Matheo (fallecido en 1693) casó con Tomasa de la Cruz, que sigue.

Matheo y Tomassa fueron padres de:

1. Antonio.
2. Juan.
3. Rosa María.
4. Úrsula que casó con Juan Yáñez del Monte.
5. Sebastiana Pérez de Frías aka Pérez de la Cruz nacida en 1667 que casó en primeras nupcias con Nicolás Rodríguez de Santa Ana y en segundas nupcias con Francisco de Legaspi.
6. Jacinto.
7. Theresa.
8. Cristóbal, nacido en Teocaltiche en 1654 casó en primeras nupcias con Theresa Durán y en segundas nupcias con Francisca de Chávez.

Ojalá que alguno de los compañeros que conoce los registros de Teocaltiche te pueda ayudar con información más precisa de éstos ancestros.

Marcelina

Comentario

Dear RJ, and Marcelina,

Hernando (Fernando) de Perez de Frias tambien fue conocido como Hernando Frias Delgadillo . Uno de sus hijos uso el apellido Mendoza.

1). Hernando Perez de Frias (Hernando Frias Delgadillo) and Andrea de Rodas had at least three children.

1.1). Melchora de Los Reyes ( aka Melchora Frias Delgadillo) married to Gabriel Lomelin y Hurtado de Mendoza (son of Domingo Lomelin and Juana Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza) [Domingo is the son of Carlo Lomellini and Maria Benavides] and {Juana is the daughter of Manuel Gomez and Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza. [this particular family brings together much of my research into the Lomellini, Ramirez Arellano, Hernandez Arellano, and Hurtado De Mendoza family trees]

1.2). Jose Hurtado de Mendoza married to Juana Yañez in Mexticacan. (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T49Y-LN?i=65&cc=1804458)

1.3) Luis Perez de Frias y Rodas (Luis Perez de Frias) married Melchora Carbajal. They had at least three children. I am only going to name Matheo here as he is the father of Sebastiana Perez de Frias

1.3.1) Matheo (Mateo) Perez de Frias is married to Thomasa De la Cruz [daughter of Jose de la Cruz and Maria Gabay (aka Maria Navarro)] {Maria Gabay is the daughter of Cristobal Navarro and an unknown woman) (For more information on the ancestry of Cistobal Navarro Gabay see my posts on Lope Ruiz de Esparza)

And as Marcelina posted:

1.3.1.5) Sebastiana Pérez de Frías aka Pérez de la Cruz nacida en 1667 que casó en primeras nupcias con Nicolás Rodríguez de Santa Ana y en segundas nupcias con Francisco de Legaspi.

P.S. For more information on the Carlo Lomellini, Diego Gomez, Isabsbl Hurtado de Mendoza, Toribio Hernandez Arellano, Ramirez Arellano and Navarro ancestries you can check my previous posts to go back many more generations.

Rick A. Ricci

Source: Mygenes2000 by R.A.Ricci

Comentario

Hola R.J y Richard:

Yo realmente no conozco a la familia Pérez de Frías así que resulta muy valioso el aporte de Richard. Por cierto tomé una fotografía del cuadro de Doña María Lomelí la esposa de Diego Barrientos de Ribera pero no se cómo subirla a los recursos de ésta página. ¿Les gustaría conocer el retrato de Doña María?

Yo desciendo de Cristóbal de Santa Ana Rodríguez, ésta familia vivía en Querétaro, Don Simón de Santa Ana y Doña María Rodríguez fueron padres de Cristóbal, hijo póstumo. La familia pasó a Victoria, Guanajuato en donde se dedicaron a la minería de plata. Uno de los hijos se casó con una mujer de la familia Sandi y pasaron entonces a Salvatierra, Guanajuato. Sin embargo muchas familias de Victoria Guanajuato estaban relacionadas con familias de Zacatecas y de Victoria, Durango. Es posible que los Rodríguez de Santa Ana puedan estar relacionados con los Santa Ana Rodríguez, pero todavía no encuentro un lazo directo únicamente que son contemporáneos y que se ubicaban en zonas mineras.

Richard: procura visitar mi última aportación sobre la ascendencia de Nicolás de Murguía.

Saludos

Marcelina

Comentario

The post didn't seem right so I checked some of the info and found an error. There may be more errors in that post that Marcelina found on ancestry.com.

The third child of Luis Pérez de Frias and Melchora Carbajal was not named Hernando Perez de Frias. The third child was named Luis Delgadillo. Hernando (Hernan) Perez de Frias was the son of Juan Joseph Perez de Frias and Catalina (Catarina) Lopez de Castro.

Luis Pérez de Frías que se casó con Melchora de los Carbajal, fueron padres de:

Luis Delgadillo que se caso con Josepha de Islas, hija de Bernardino de Islas y Mariana Moscoso Sandoval.

Luis Delgadillo y Josepha tienen por lo menos cinco hijos, todos con el apellido Delgadillo.

1) Bernardino

2) Elvira

3) Mariana casada con Jose Gutierrez de Hermosillo. Una nieta, Gertrudis Mercado se casa con Hernando de Perez de Frias hijo de Juan Joseph Perez de Frias and Catalina (Catarina) Lopez de Castro

4) Catalina

5) Juan

Gertrudis Mercado es hija de Juan Ignacio Mercado y Josepha Gutierrez de Hermosillo.

Josepha se hija de Jose Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Mariana Delgadillo.

Mariana Delgadillo se hija de Luis Delgadillo y Mariana Moscoso Sandoval

Gracias Marcelina por la ascendencia de Nicolas Murguia/Munguia

Ricardo A. Ricci

Comentario

I have a follow-up question from this old thread

Re:
***********************************************************************************

Luis Pérez de Frías que se casó con Melchora de los Carbajal, fueron padres de:

1. Matheo (fallecido en 1693) casó con Tomasa de la Cruz, que sigue.

**********************************************************************************

My family descends from Matheo - can you provide a source (marriage cert, birth cert location or book that notes this)? I am trying to prove this but the ancestry records online are not visible although they corroborate the lineage.

Thank you!

Dolores

Comentario

Thank you - have added this date to my records.

My maternal grandfather's mother was Maria S. Rodriguez Yanez (Zacatecas 1893) and this is her lineage.

My 3rd GGF on her side is Natalio Yanez ((1810-1885) and his father was Juan Yanez Degaldillo (circa 1767). His father was Joseph Yanez Perez (circa 1686). Joseph's father was Juan Yanez (del Monte) (circa 1650) and his mom was Thomasa Úrsula Pérez de Frías( 1650).I believe Thomasa's parents were: Mateo Perez de Frias (1626?) and Thomasa de la Cruz (de Gabay)1629.

Is there a birth cert or other document showing Mateo's lineage to his parents noted in this thread? Luis Delgadillo Perez de Frias and Melchora De Los Reyes Rodriguez Carbajal? I also have different birth years for Mateo so I am trying to document this and his direct ancestors.

Thank you for your help!

Comentario

I'm confused! Is there more than one Luis Perez de Frias, one who is the son of Hernando Perez de Vrias and Andres de Rodas and another who is the son of Diego de Frias and Ysabel de Calderon? If so, then there would be two different Melchora Carvajals. I'd appreciate elucidation porque ando bien confundido!

Comentario

Hi Marcelina, Rick:

Thank you for the tips! I had a chance to check Seabastiana's marriage with Francisco de Legaspi, and indeed, she was the widow of Miguel Rdz. de Santa Ana. A least this is a fact, that the couple listed among the Frías research is the sameone I'm talking about, the only thing to note is that the name I've seen is only Miguel and not Nicolas, not sure where that name came from and if it was another of his given names.

As there is no "información matrimonial" from the 1707's-1730's I think there is no much that could be saved from Miguel Rdz. de Santa Ana. Knowing his parents would it be a quite a clue. I just hope one day to come across some of his kids/grandkids that may include more information of him, but I'm not keeping my hopes high.

Marcelina:

Los Rdz. de Santa Ana que estoy buscando, poseen éste apellido compuesto desde tiempo muy atrás, es decir que no fue la unión de matrimonio el que puso las partes "de Santa Ana" y "Rodríguez" en uno solo como sucede con tus ancestros, existen también muchos otros apellidos que adoptaron el "de Santa Ana", pero nunca he encontrado cual fue la razón, leí alguna vez un comentario haciendo mención que ésto proviene de las ordenes militar/religiosas Españolas, aun que en lo personal nunca he visto un documento que lo sustente.

Dado que ademas existen familias donde sí se unieron estos dos apellidos correspondientemente, la búsqueda me ha sido extremadamente difícil, especialmente cuando en muchas ocasiones, en los registros se les omitía parte de el apellido, además de el hecho que Rdz. es uno de los apellidos mas comunes.

Notes of what I know:

-I found that in Nombre de Dios, Durango, there was a person whose name was Cristóbal Rodríguez de Santa Ana, who happen to be "concuño" of captain Don Agustín Quiralte (married the sister of Agustín's wife), to me this is the first link between these two families that can latter be observed in Nochistlán.

-Cristóbal Rdz. de St. Ana was the godparent of the first kid of captain Don Joseph Francisco Quiralte, who establish the Quiralte/Quirarte families in Nochistlán.

I'm thinking that Miguel (Sebastiana's husband) and Cristóbal were related, due to the political links between the cities and that of the families that relate to both.

R.J. Quiralta

Comentario

Hola R. J. y Richard:

El apellido Santa Ana tiene varios orígenes:

1) En Galicia.
2) Origen moro, de los conversos después de la conquista de Granada, que pertenecían a la parroquia de Santa Ana, en Granada.
3) Hay un pueblo de Santa Ana cerca de Cáceres, Extremadura.

Al parecer mi familia proviene de Medina del Pomar, en las Montañas de Burgos.

Serí interesante intentar a través del Portal Pares encontrar algún registro ya sea como Santa Ana o como Santana.

Richard:

Encontré algo más sobre los Murguía lo subiré en breve.

Saludos
Marcelina

Comentario

Don José es uno di mis abuelos nacido en 1770 en Mexticacan. Pero hasta ahora no he podido encontrar a ninguno de sus antecedentes. Sólo tengo el nombre de su esposa, la Ana María Torres, nacida a eso de 1770 también en Mexticacan. Pero tampoco sé de sus antecedentes.
Espero que ó Vd. ó unos de los compañeros en esta lista tengan más información que me puede ayudar en hacer las conexiones que me faltan con esta rama de la familia. Gracias.

Comentario

I just did further research and found that Jose del Carmen Rodrigues de Frias was the son of Manuel Rodrigues de Frias and of Maria Guadalupe Frias. Jose del Carmen also had siblings, all from Mexticacan:

Jose Mariano, married 29 Feb 1808 to Maria Anastacia Cordero
Maria Polonia, married 18 Oct 1809 to Jose Francisco Ximenes
Maria Rosalia, married 5 Aug 1811 to Jose Espiridion Ximenes

Hoping this leads to some more connections!

Comentario

Hello,

Is this Maria Lopes the same as 3. Rosa Maria from earlier post?

Location: nochistlan, Zacatecas.
Marriage date: July 16, 1691.
Marriages 1691 to 1736.
Image: 9, left side.

If I'm reading it right, it says Maria Lopes. Espanola, legitimate daughter of Matheo Perez de Frias, and of Thomasa de la Cruz.

"Mateo y Tomassa fueron padres de:

1. Antonio.
2. Juan.
3. Rosa María.
4. Úrsula que casó con Juan Yáñez del Monte.
5. Sebastiana Pérez de Frías aka Pérez de la Cruz nacida en 1667 que casó en primeras nupcias con Nicolás Rodríguez de Santa Ana y en segundas nupcias con Francisco de Legaspi.
6. Jacinto.
7. Theresa.
8. Cristóbal, nacido en Teocaltiche en 1654 casó en primeras nupcias con Theresa Durán y en segundas nupcias con Francisca de Chávez"

Thanks, Oscar.

CORONA: Álvarez Corona, Fernández Corona, González Corona

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I believe I have found the parents of doña Isabel Álvarez Corona, the wife of conquistador don Martín Monje, giving us the origin of the above compound surnames:

Comentarios

Comentario

As of now I do not descend from this family so I don't know the context of the research but as usual well presented and great work from the one and only Manny! Thank you for sharing!

Comentario

Hi Manny,

This is great work. Do you know how they connect to, or if they do, to Josefa Corona married to Pedro Nieto?

Danny

Comentario

(para nuestr@s prim@s hispanohablantes)

Creo que he encontrado a los padres de doña Isabel Álvarez Corona, la mujer del conquistador don Martín Monje, dándonos el origen de los apellidos compuestos de arriba:

1. Según su testamento del 16 jun 1590, Juan Fernández Nieto era hijo del conquistador Alonso Martín y de doña Beatriz Álvarez, y estaba casado con doña Catalina de León. Menciona a Martín Monje (hijo), a quien identifica como su “cuñado”, por lo que sabemos que Catalina de León era hija de don Martín Monje y doña Isabel Álvarez Corona. Nombra como hijos suyos a Juan Fernández Corona (20), doña Catalina Corona (18), doña Beatriz Nieto (16), Martín Monje (14), y Hernán González Corona (13).
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-69JN-G?cat=198356

2. Pedro de Trejo estaba casado con doña Isabel de León, hija de don Martín Monje y doña Isabel Álvarez Corona. El 22 de mayo de 1568 fue juzgado por la Santa Inquisición por “proposiciones heréticas”. Tres de los testigos presentados en su contra fueron sus cuñados, doña Catalina de León (de 24 años y viuda del minero Cristóbal de Girón), Martín Monje (19) y doña Antonia de León (14). Otro testigo fue el mencionado Juan Fernández Nieto, quien se identifica como primo de los tres testigos anteriores, y sobrino de doña Isabel Álvarez Corona. La conexión obvia sería entre ella y la madre, de él, Beatriz Álvarez, ya que tienen el mismo apellido (si es así, él y su esposa, doña Catalina de León, eran primos hermanos).
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-CQVJ-F?cat=31792

3. En 1554, Juan Infante demandó a Juan Fernández Corona y Garci Álvarez Corona, acusándolos de erigir una casa y un corral en sus tierras. A simple vista pensé que se trataba de Juan Fernández Corona hijo de Juan Fernández Nieto y doña Catalina de León, y Garci Álvarez su primo, hijo de Martín Monje (hijo) y doña Leónor de la Torre, pero esto no sería posible, ya que este pleito transcurrió entre los años 1554-1565, antes de que nacieran aquellos dos. Al leer el documento descubrí que estos dos hombres eran hermanos, hijos de Hernán González Corona, todos vecinos de Guayangarao. Como los dos hermanos eran coetáneos de doña Isabel Álvarez Corona (y de su supuesta hermana, Beatriz Álvarez), y viendo como doña Isabel tenía nietos llamados “Garci Álvarez Corona”, “Juan Fernández Corona” y “Hernán González Corona”, me inclino a suponer que son sus hermanos, y por lo tanto, ella es hija de Hernán González Corona.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-7X9C?cat=623294

4. Encontrado en PARES / AGIS, y fechado el 8 marzo 1536: “Hernán González Corona y Catalina González, su mujer, con Alonso, García, Juanico, Beatriz, Leonor, Mayor e Isabel, sus hijos, vecinos de Guadalcanal, a Nueva España”.

Se trata sin duda de los mismos Garci Álvarez Corona y Juan Fernández Corona, hijos de Hernán González Corona, mencionados en la demanda de arriba. Si bien no puedo decir con total certeza que las citadas hijas Beatriz e Isabel sean Beatriz Álvarez e Isabel Álvarez Corona, creo que es muy probable, dado que los nombres de estos tres hombres aparecen entre los descendientes de ambas mujeres. Con suerte, algún día, podremos encontrar la documentación que confirme estas relaciones.
http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/6049580

Saludos,
Manny Díez Hermosillo

PADRONES - Diocesis de Guadalajara 1639-1875

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hola prim@s,

Here are links to padrones of various parishes of the Diocesis de Guadalajara, years 1639-1875.

Comentarios

Comentario

I was looking for the answer to that question but I think i figured it out. I'm going to try to copy and paste the link but if it doesn't work...Go to Jalisco, Church records 1590-1979, Guadalajara, Arzobispado de Guadalajara, padrones 1772-1773, 1784 and it looks like they might start at 146 of 879 but I honestly haven't had a chance to really look at it yet.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-V59V-76?i=145&wc=3JZQ-…

Sandra

looking at it again, I'm not sure where Juchipila's records actually start but I am pretty sure this is where to look for AGI Guad 348 because the I found what I was looking for and it is listed as being in those records too

Comentario

here's 1820 for pinos
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-Q9WZ-6?i=81&cat=3…

1820 amatlan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-Q97L-7?i=244&cat=…

1820 zapotlan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-Q97J-K?i=273&cat=…

1820 comunion (?)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-Q97Q-Z?i=338&cat=…

1820 teul
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-Q97D-1?i=363&cat=…

1820 villanueva
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-BSLG-P?i=132&cat=…

1820 colima
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-Q97Q-G?i=391&cat=…

1820 encarnacion
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-BSGM-B?i=60&cat=3…

1820 jerez
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73GH-4?i=76&cat=3…

Comentario

Hola. ¿Alguno de ustedes tiene ya localizado los padrones de Lagos (Santa María de los Lagos antes de 1829)que no sean los de 1810 y 1874?

Saludos.

Hi. Does anyone has already located the padrones of Lagos? But the ones different form the ones of 1810 and 1874.

Cheers.

Comentario

So far, what I have found, including parish, web location, year of census,
whether the census includes ages of individuals or no ages, and the image
start location within the census film

San Cristobal de la Barranca
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73KM-Z?i=581&cat=…
1820
Ages Listed
Starts image 582 of 763

San Cristobal de la Barranca
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-W3YF-T?i=223&cat=…
1822
Ages Listed
224 of 633

Jalpa
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73L5-R?i=168&cat=…
1820
No Ages Listed
169 of 763

Jalpa
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73DL-S?i=225&cat=…
1824
No Ages Listed
226 of 632

Jalpa
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73DX-2?i=279&cat=…
1824
No Ages Listed
280 of 632

Tepatitlan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-KJT?i=593&cat=326…
1818
No Ages Listed
594 of 649

Tepatitlan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-WQ5T-V?i=393&cat=…
1820
No Ages Listed
394 of 629

Tepatitlan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-W3Y9-Z?i=520&cat=…
1822
No Ages Listed
521 of 633

Tepatitlan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-QQ4M-C?i=19&cat=3…
1847
No Ages Listed
21 of 814

Mezquital del Oro
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-WSJ1-R?i=480&cat=…
1817
Ages Listed
481 of 665

Mezquital del Oro
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-BSGZ-N?i=501&cat=…
1820?
No Ages Listed
502 of 628

Mezquital del Oro
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-W3YC-N?i=343&cat=…
1822
No Ages Listed
344 of 633

Tlaltenango
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-BSGH-N?i=516&cat=…
1820
No Ages Listed
517 of 628

Tlaltenango
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-QQMD-L?i=229&cat=…
1821
No Ages Listed
230 of 631

Mesticacan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-2QKC?i=53&cat=326…
1820
No Ages Listed
54 of 645

Mesticacan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-3BTR?i=532&cat=32…
1821
Ages Listed
533 of 644

Cuquio
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-2QV1?i=124&cat=32…
1820
Ages Listed
125 of 645

Cuquio
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-W3G4-W?i=461&cat=…
1824
Ages Listed
462 of 701

Aguascalientes
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-33WG-R?i=5&cat=32…
1821
Ages Listed
6 of 382

Aguascalientes
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-2QCC?i=433&cat=32…
1820
Ages Listed
434 of 645

Aguascalientes
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-3144?i=419&cat=32…
1821
No Ages Listed
420 of 644

Aguascalientes
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-335R-H?i=456&cat=…
1764
No Ages Listed
457 of 540

Aguascalientes
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-WS2S-8?i=4&cat=32…
1818
Ages Listed
6 of 541

San Juan de los Lagos
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-Q97P-6?i=197&cat=…
1820
No Ages Listed
198 of 669

Teul
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-Q97D-1?i=363&cat=…
1820
No Ages Listed
364 of 669

Teul
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-Q3BB-4?i=504&cat=…
1821
No Ages Listed
505 of 631

Teul
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-23TQ-J?i=20&cat=3…
1819
No Ages Listed
21 of 412

Calvillo
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-3347-5?i=232&cat=…
1821
Ages Listed
233 of 382

Huejucar
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-QN6Q?i=535&cat=32…
1817
No Ages Listed
536 of 643

Huejucar
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-39M7-S?i=216&cat=…
1821
No Ages Listed
217 of 644

Huejucar
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-3Z32?i=232&cat=32…
1822
No Ages Listed
233 of 671

Xstlahuacan del Rio
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-QNLC?i=561&cat=32…
1817
Ages Listed
562 of 643

Xstlahuacan del Rio
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-31D5?i=316&cat=32…
1821
Ages Listed
317 of 644

Xstlahuacan del Rio
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-3CY1?i=330&cat=32…
1822
Ages Listed
331 of 671

Moyahua - Start
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-3Z8T?i=635&cat=32…
1822
Ages Listed
636 of 671

Moyahua - End
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-W3YP-1?i=5&cat=32…
1822
Ages Listed
6 of 633

Nochistlan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-W3Y5-H?i=12&cat=3…
1822
Ages Listed
15 of 633

Nochistlan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-WSK7-B?i=253&cat=…
1817
Ages Listed
254 of 665

Juchipila
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-738Q-P?i=429&cat=…
1824 Ages listed of adults and older children
430 of 632

Juchipila
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-23T6-6?i=344&cat=…
1819
No Ages Listed
345 of 412

Jalostotitlan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-WS24-Z?i=43&cat=3…
1817
No Ages Listed
44 of 665

Jalostotitlan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-2PY4?i=186&cat=32…
1819
No Ages Listed
187 of 603

Villa del Rufugio
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-WSJ3-2?i=643&cat=…
1817
Ages Listed
644 of 665

Villa del Rufugio
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-79TC-J?i=5&cat=32…
1817
Ages Listed
6 of 713

Teocaltiche
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-79RL-8?i=237&cat=…
1817
No Ages Listed
239 of 713

Teocaltiche
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-KYC?i=549&cat=326…
1818
No Ages Listed
550 of 649

Teocaltiche
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-23T4-Y?i=239&cat=…
1819
No Ages Listed
240 of 412

Tequila
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-79RH-B?i=342&cat=…
1817
Ages Listed
343 of 713

Tequila
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73G9-J?i=107&cat=…
1820
Ages Listed
108 of 763

Comentario

Here's 1821 padrones

film 168823-some pages have really faded text
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-33WG-R?i=5&cat=32…
6 aguascalientes
180 ?
196 calvillo
210 ?
232 ?
248 ?
270 ?
275 arandas
362 atemanica

film 168824
https://www.familysearch.org/search/film/007721030?cat=32677
6 atiquisa
11 ayo el chico
65 ayutla
84 cuyutlan
114 etzatlan
140 extula
159 san cristobal
169 guachinango
190 ?
217 huejucar
248 ?
286 ?
317 ystlahucan
395 jerez
420 aguascalientes
459 magdalena
484 mazamitla
505 mazapil
594 ojeulos
630 ?

film 168825
16 ?
34 cedral
81 cosme
119 san cristobal
148 san gabriel
178 hedionda
230 tlaltenango
293 tomatlan
336 juanacatic
348 tula
393 jalpa
449 tequila
505 teul
536 ?
545 toluquilla
554 santa maria
562 santa cruz
565 tonala
610 tototlan

film 168826
20 trinidad de soto
76 tuscaquesco
249 encarnacion
302 purificacion
320 villanueva
369 zacatecas
427 zalatitlan

Comentario

some 1825 padrones,

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-W96Z-3?cat=32677
5 ahuacatlan
31 ameca
95 arandas
186 atemancia
196 huayanamota
203 ayo el chico
245 ?
259 ayutla
263 ?
270 extula
319 ojuelos
376 ?
407 tonala
416 ixtlan
563 ?
605 mezquitial (1830)
616 mexitcacan

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-79PY-N?cat=32677
53 ?
99 poncitlan
132 san gabriel
165 mezquital
185 tabasco
232 jalpa
272 mascota
307 tototlan (?)
335 paso de soto
352 tuscacuesco
381 valpariaso
470 san agusta (?)
529 calvillo
559 cuquio
612 ?

https://www.familysearch.org/search/film/007721038?cat=32677
14 encarnacion
62 ?
99 ?
130 zapotitlan

plus here's an 1819 villanueva one
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-23TM-P?i=50&cat=3…

monte escobedo padron
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-23T7-3?i=285&cat=…

Comentario

Hi Manny,

Would you happen to know which film number is the census of Jerez, Zacatecas, Mexico?

Also if there is Valparaiso, Zacatecas, Mexico and Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico.

Comentario

Hi Antonio,

I'm sorry, I don't know which roll any of the Jerez padrones would be on. These aren't indexed, you just have to go through each roll. The easiest way is to use the thumbnail viewer, and find the beginning of each padron. Most of them have a title page, or at least a header, announcing which parish it is.

There are several years of padrones, and I'm sure all of the towns you mentioned are included.

Good luck!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Actually I've found that you can find a lot those Nueva Galicia padrones listed in Lymann D. Platt's book, Census Records for Latin America and the Hispanic United States. You can find a copy of it online from Google books for about $10 or something. The book lists the old film numbers, which you can search for in Familysearch under the Catalog search tab. From there it makes it a little easier to look for the specific film instead of searching every single film in the collection. You still need to search manually for the images you're looking for but the multi-image feature helps to see the beginning of the various padrones.

Madera, There does seem to be a good amount of listings of those places in Lymann's book.

Hope this helps,
Paul A. Gonzales

P.S. It is worth noting that while most of Platt's indexes for the Guadalajara padrones film locations are accurate, there is sometimes the occasional mistake.

Comentario

I have Lyman's book, I see the film I need, but I don't see all of the city names--I need the 1840 census roll 168807, great The years don't seem to be consecutive. I so wish someone would transcribe all of this!! arrgh! I will put on my perseverance cap now.

Comentario

Hi Theresa,

Which year and which town/city are you looking for?

Here is roll 168807, which has Padrones 1817-1840:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/film/007721014?cat=32677

As far as I can tell, most of these are in chronological order. This roll has padrones from 1817-1840, so 1840 will be near the end of the roll. I recommend leaping to image500, then use the "thumbnail" viewer. The title page of each Padron is viewable, so just "leap" to the next one, until you find the one you're looking for.

Here's Año 1840, Ciudad de Zacatecas, image657:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-QQHQ-T?i=656&cat=…

I Hope that helps!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Thank you for the link it really helped me find it quickly. I am not finding my family there. Since I only show one birth there perhaps they weren't from that town at all. I have many births, marriages, etc in Fresnillo, so I think I'll go to that region. When I look these areas up in Platt's book shows AAG and AGI Guadalajara. These are both archives-does that mean they aren't anywhere on microfilm? Do you have any thoughts/suggestions?

Comentario

Thank you for the link it really helped me find it quickly. I am not finding my family there. Since I only show one birth there perhaps they weren't from that town at all. I have many births, marriages, etc in Fresnillo, so I think I'll go to that region. When I look these areas up in Platt's book shows AAG and AGI Guadalajara. These are both archives-does that mean they aren't anywhere on microfilm? Do you have any thoughts/suggestions?

Comentario

i'm not sure, still checking through them slowly. maybe fresnillo census is another year besides 1820, plus i'm still checking 1820 ones. here's the one for tequila
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73G9-J?i=107&cat=…

1820 jalpa
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73L5-R?i=168&cat=…
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-732P-F?i=305&cat=…

1820 barca
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73L6-6?i=198&cat=…

1820 chimaltitan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73LQ-Q?i=244&cat=…

1820 zacatecas
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73L9-B?i=263&cat=…

1820 asientos
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-732C-H?i=344&cat=…

1820 hedionda
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73K2-1?i=463&cat=…

1820 huaynamota
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73K7-T?i=525&cat=…

1820 ystlahuacan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73KW-Y?i=534&cat=…

1820 yesca
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73V1-C?i=541&cat=…

1820 san cristobal
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73KM-Z?i=581&cat=…

1820 totatiche
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73VN-N?i=602&cat=…

1820 tototlan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73V4-N?i=628&cat=…

1820 etzatlan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73VQ-6?i=657&cat=…

1820 salinas
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-73J5-V?i=686&cat=…

while i didn't include links for every area i saw in 1820 ones. i don't recall seeing a fresnillo padrones among them. i'll update this post if i do fins fresnillo padrones

Comentario

Did you find the padron for Fresnillo? I have many family connexions there on my mother's side. Thank you.

Comentario

No, I'm sorry, I have not, but I haven't had much time to look through those records yet. I'll keep an eye out for them though, and let you know if I see any.

Batres en Zac/Aguas.

Published by rmfpdx –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hola a todos. I am researching the Batres line in Zacatecas/Aguascalientes. This was my paternal grandfather’s mother’s line. I have only been able to go back to late 1800s using familysearch.org.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Rick

I came across the name Luis Batres in an Informacion Matrimonial, Asientos (Aguascalientes) for his marriage in 1732. Don't know if there is any connection to your family, but here is the link, and the citation with image #:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6D39-VQY?i=147&cc=1502…

"México, Aguascalientes, registros parroquiales, 1620-1962," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6D39-VQY?cc=1502404&wc=M6Q… : 20 May 2014), Asientos > Nuestra Señora de Belén > Información matrimonial 1731-1737 > image 148 of 696; parroquias Católicas, Aguascalientes (Catholic Church parishes, Aguascalientes).

Regards
Denise Fastrup

Comentario

Hi Rick,

There was an early line in San Luis Potosi, SLP, with this surname, descending from Luis Batres (mercader) and Juana Diaz de Figueroa. They had 13 children, born between 1630-1653, of which 9 were males. It’s a couple of centuries before your known ancestors, but I imagine some of them or their descendants would’ve branched out to other areas. It’s a long shot, but it might be worth taking a look in SLP.

Have you checked the padrones? http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/24108

Good luck!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Se me olvidó agregar los hermanos de Macaria Batres, todos nacidos en Fresnillo:

Dionisio
Atanacio, 20 de ago de 1867
Gregoria, 17 de nov de 1869
Macario, 10 de mar de 1872
Francisco, 29 de mar de 1875
Luis, 25 de ago 1877
Jobita, 14 de feb 1880
Francisco, 3 de dic 1882
Josefa, 27 de nov 1889

Gracias.

HACERCA DEL APELLIDO DE ALMEIDA

Published by LUPITA GONZALE… –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

DESEO SABER SI ALGUIEN, TIENE INFORMACION DEL APELLIDO ALMEIDA, LO ENCUENTRO EN MIS ABUELOS CUARTOS MATERNOS, EL MATRIMONIO ES OSEPH JOACHIN BAEZ Y LUISA CAYO ZEIJAS DE ALMEIDA, CASADOS UN 8 DE ENERO DE 1774 EN JALOSTOTITLAN, JAL, ENCUENTRO COMO PADRES DE LUISA A AGUSTIN DE ALMEIDA NACIDO EN 1703 Y CASADO CON JOSEPHA DE HERMOSILLO EN 10 DE FEBRERO DE 1727, EN SAN JUAN DE LOS LAGOS, LOS PADRES DE AGUSTIN DE ALMEIDA SON AGUSTIN DE ALMEIDA Y MARIA LUPERCIO, DE LOS CUALES YA NO HE PODIDO AVANZAR, HE PREGUNTADO CON PERSONAS DEL VALLE Y LOS ALTOS Y NO UBICAN EL APELLIDO ALMEIDA EN ESA ZONA, ALGUIEN DEL GRUPO HA ENCONTRADO, ESTE APELLIDO EN SU GENEALOGIA, ME ENCANTARIA TENER INFORMACION AL RESPECTO, LUISA TIENE UNA HERMANA LLAMADA JUANA DE ALMEIDA Y ESTUBO CASADA CON JOSEPH NICOLAS ALVARES TOSTADO. MI ABUELA LUISA TAMBIEN ESTUVO CASADA CON AUGUSTIN DIONICIO CASILLAS.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola Lupita,
Yo sí tengo esos apellidos en mi linaje directo. Almeida era el apellido de una de mis tatarabuelas, Maria de Jesus Almeida, nacida el 15 de junio de 1844 en Fresnillo, Zac. Ella fue hija de Cándido Almeida y de Juana Perez. Maria de Jesus se casó con Cleofas Batres el 9 de mayo de 1865 también en Fresnillo. No sé nada de sus padres más que sus nombres.

Rick Fernández

Comentario

Yo tampoco he tenido mucho exito en encontrar mas datos sobre el apellido Almeida, que tengo en mi arbol gen. tambien. Pero aqui comparto lo que tengo:

mi segundo tataro abuelo se llamaba CANDIDO ALMEIDA, no se su fecha de nacimiento, pero su hija era MARIA DE JESUS ALMEIDA, nacida entre 1844 y 1855 en Fresnillo, Zacatecas. Su esposo era Cleofas Batres, casados en 1874 tambien en Fresnillo. (Batres es otro nombre del cual busco mas informacion.)

Espero que esto sea util de una manera u otra.

Rick Fernández

Comentario

Supuestamente Maria de Jesus ALMEIDA se casó con Cléofas BATRES el 9 de mayo de 1865 en Fresnillo, Zac., pero no tengo fuente alguna para comprobar esta fecha. Los archivos de matrimonios que tiene Familysearch no comienzan hasta 1866, un año demasiado tardío. ¿Alguien me puede sugerir otras fuentes de investigación que puedan incluir el año 1865? Muchas gracias.

Comentario

Hola Lupita. Bienvenida al grupo. Con respecto al apellido Almeida, éste también aparece en mi árbol genealógico. Mi bisabuela se llamó María de las Mercedes Ponce Almeida (16/05/1878-23/04/1954) y fue hija de J. Jesús Ponce Martínez (1836-¿?) y de María Encarnación Almeida García (1847-25/02/1903), quien, por su parte, fue hija de J. Nabor Almeida (¿1818?) casado con María Asunción García. Hasta ahí tengo datos de ellos, pero sé que vivieron en Jesús María, Aguascalientes. Asimismo encontré en actas que el apellido Almeida igualmente lo escribían Almeyda, aunque el primero es el correcto. Ojalá te puedan servir estos datos, aunque son más recientes a los que tienes y que posiblemente no tengan un vínculo cercano.

Saludos.

Ricardo Chávez

Comentario

Hola Ricardo!

Tienes alguna información sobre el apellido TISCAREÑO? Sé que son primos de los Ruiz Esparza, mi bisabuela se llamaba CARMEN TISCAREÑO ESCARCIA, Ellos son de EL CARRO, Zacatecas

Laureen

Ricardo Chavez Ruiz Esparza escribió:
Hola Lupita. Bienvenida al grupo. Con respecto al apellido Almeida, éste también aparece en mi árbol genealógico. Mi bisabuela se llamó María de las Mercedes Ponce Almeida (16/05/1878-23/04/1954) y fue hija de J. Jesús Ponce Martínez (1836-¿?) y de María Encarnación Almeida García (1847-25/02/1903), quien, por su parte, fue hija de J. Nabor Almeida (¿1818?) casado con María Asunción García. Hasta ahí tengo datos de ellos, pero sé que vivieron en Jesús María, Aguascalientes. Asimismo encontré en actas que el apellido Almeida igualmente lo escribían Almeyda, aunque el primero es el correcto. Ojalá te puedan servir estos datos, aunque son más recientes a los que tienes y que posiblemente no tengan un vínculo cercano.

Saludos.

Ricardo Chávez

Comentario

Lupita, I have Almeida in one of my family lines. They are from Pinos, Zac. and Hidalgo del Parral in Chihuahua. I have noticed Almeida in Aguas and in San Felipe, Guanajuato. It seems to me that the Almeida's moved around a lot. I have a small collection of data on Almeida families which I don't think are related to me. But, you never know. Below I am sending you facts which might be related to your Almeida family.

Five children who are 'Baez Almeida':
Juan Nepomuseno Pasqual Baez Almeida, bp. 21 may 1774; Maria De Jesus Bais Almeida, bp. 22 feb 1777; and Jose Trenidad bais Almeida, bp. 9 jun 1779. All are in Batch J/K 603208, film: #279260 and have the parents 'Joachin Baez/s and Luisa De Almeida. Maria Catharina Bais Almeida, bp. 5 may 1783 and Josse Agustin Sesario Baes Almeida bp. 6 sep 1785
-----Original Message-----
>From: LUPITA GONZALEZ GONZALEZ
>Sent: Jan 27, 2008 9:06 PM
>To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] HACERCA DEL APELLIDO DE ALMEIDA
>
>
>DESEO SABER SI ALGUIEN, TIENE INFORMACION DEL APELLIDO ALMEIDA, LO ENCUENTRO EN MIS ABUELOS CUARTOS MATERNOS, EL MATRIMONIO ES OSEPH JOACHIN BAEZ Y LUISA CAYO ZEIJAS DE ALMEIDA, CASADOS UN 8 DE ENERO DE 1774 EN JALOSTOTITLAN, JAL, ENCUENTRO COMO PADRES DE LUISA A AGUSTIN DE ALMEIDA NACIDO EN 1703 Y CASADO CON JOSEPHA DE HERMOSILLO EN 10 DE FEBRERO DE 1727, EN SAN JUAN DE LOS LAGOS, LOS PADRES DE AGUSTIN DE ALMEIDA SON AGUSTIN DE ALMEIDA Y MARIA LUPERCIO, DE LOS CUALES YA NO HE PODIDO AVANZAR, HE PREGUNTADO CON PERSONAS DEL VALLE Y LOS ALTOS Y NO UBICAN EL APELLIDO ALMEIDA EN ESA ZONA, ALGUIEN DEL GRUPO HA ENCONTRADO, ESTE APELLIDO EN SU GENEALOGIA, ME ENCANTARIA TENER INFORMACION AL RESPECTO, LUISA TIENE UNA HERMANA LLAMADA JUANA DE ALMEIDA Y ESTUBO CASADA CON JOSEPH NICOLAS ALVARES TOSTADO. MI ABUELA LUISA TAMBIEN ESTUVO CASADA CON AUGUSTIN DIONICIO CASILLAS.
>
>BUENO ESTAMOS EN CONTACTO, ATTE. LUPITTA

Comentario

I'm resending because the whole message did not get sent.

Lupita, I have Almeida in one of my family lines. They are from Pinos, Zac. and Hidalgo del Parral in Chihuahua. I have noticed Almeida in Aguas and in San Felipe, Guanajuato. It seems to me that the Almeida's moved around a lot. I have a small collection of data on Almeida families which I don't think are related to me. But, you never know. Below I am sending you facts which might be related to your Almeida family.

Five children who are 'Baez Almeida':
Juan Nepomuseno Pasqual Baez Almeida, bp. 21 may 1774; Maria De Jesus Bais Almeida, bp. 22 feb 1777; and Jose Trenidad bais Almeida, bp. 9 jun 1779. All are in Batch J/K 603208, film: #279260 and have the parents 'Joachin Baez/s and Luisa De Almeida. Maria Catharina Bais Almeida, bp. 5 may 1783 and Josse Agustin Sesario Baes Almeida, bp. 6 sep 1785 are from Batch C603209, film #279261.
Parents are the same as the other three except for Josse the spellings are: Juachin and Luiza. All of the baptisms were in Nstra. Sra. de la Asuncion, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. [from IGI]

Two children who are 'Almeida Lupersio':
Miguel Almeida Lupersio, bp. 10 jun 1700 and Agustin Almeida Lupersio, bp. 26 apr 1703 in the same church in Jalos. Both are in Batch C603201, film #279253. [from IGI]

Just in case you don't have the film info:
Luiza De Almeida married Augustin Dionicio Casillas 9 oct 1768, batch M603225, film #279296. Bride's parents: Augustin De Almeida, Josepha De Hermosillo, place born: Rio De La Laxa; groom's parents: Maria Antonia Gallegos, place born: Guadalaxara.
Juana De Almeida married Joseph Nicolas Albares Tostado 19 jan 1750, same batch and film as Luiza.
Bride's parents: same above; groom's parents: Juan Alvares Tostado, Maria Rodriges. I have the names and dates of baptism for six of their children. If you like I can send them to you later. They are in batch numbers: C603205, K603206, C603207. [from IGI] Let me know.

In the VRI I found many, many Almeida in D.F. Most of them are in the Asuncion church in Cuauhtemoc. For example: Melchora De Almeida y Seijas married Francisco Antonio Perez in 28 dec 1704, batch M619652, film #35271. The bride's parents: Agustin De Almeida y Seijas, Maria Fernandes Lupersio; groom's parents: Geronimo Perez, Maria Thereza Del Posso.

The VRI has two batch numbers for Jalos you might want to use: M603227 (1780-91), #279298 and C603203, (17212-35), #279255. I suggest that you go to the VRI and type in 'almeida' in surname field, region- Mexico, state- All, leave exact spelling off and see the list.

Also in the VRI I found: Francisco De Esquibel De Seijas bp. 10 nov 1683, batch C619191, #35174 Asuncion church, Cuauhtemoc, D.F.; parents: Manuel De Esquibel, Josepha De Seijas. There are two other baptisms in batch C619587, same film, same father's name and mother is Josepha De Almeida. I think this is a very strong hint that this family group might be related to the ones in Jalos.

I found an earlier 'Gonsales De Almeida' married in 1632 in Santa Veracruz church, in Cuauhtemoc, D.F. He is born in Isla las Canarias. She (almeida) is born in Mexico City. It's likely that some of the Almeida are very early arrivals in the capital.

You wrote in Spansh. I can re-write this all in Spanish if you like. Maybe you already have all of this information. I have some more stray facts which don't seem to apply to my family tree. If you would like to see it in Spanish, let me know. I would send it to your other email address as a Word attachment. I don't like the way this program of mine handles Spanish in emails.

Hopefully I have helped you at least a little. Good luck... this family drove me crazy over a year ago. Their names are impossible to predict. Often the children have almeida from the mother not the father, etcetera....

David in Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: LUPITA GONZALEZ GONZALEZ
>Sent: Jan 28, 2008 12:06 AM
>To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] HACERCA DEL APELLIDO DE ALMEIDA
>
>
>DESEO SABER SI ALGUIEN, TIENE INFORMACION DEL APELLIDO ALMEIDA, LO ENCUENTRO EN MIS ABUELOS CUARTOS MATERNOS, EL MATRIMONIO ES OSEPH JOACHIN BAEZ Y LUISA CAYO ZEIJAS DE ALMEIDA, CASADOS UN 8 DE ENERO DE 1774 EN JALOSTOTITLAN, JAL, ENCUENTRO COMO PADRES DE LUISA A AGUSTIN DE ALMEIDA NACIDO EN 1703 Y CASADO CON JOSEPHA DE HERMOSILLO EN 10 DE FEBRERO DE 1727, EN SAN JUAN DE LOS LAGOS, LOS PADRES DE AGUSTIN DE ALMEIDA SON AGUSTIN DE ALMEIDA Y MARIA LUPERCIO, DE LOS CUALES YA NO HE PODIDO AVANZAR, HE PREGUNTADO CON PERSONAS DEL VALLE Y LOS ALTOS Y NO UBICAN EL APELLIDO ALMEIDA EN ESA ZONA, ALGUIEN DEL GRUPO HA ENCONTRADO, ESTE APELLIDO EN SU GENEALOGIA, ME ENCANTARIA TENER INFORMACION AL RESPECTO, LUISA TIENE UNA HERMANA LLAMADA JUANA DE ALMEIDA Y ESTUBO CASADA CON JOSEPH NICOLAS ALVARES TOSTADO. MI ABUELA LUISA TAMBIEN ESTUVO CASADA CON AUGUSTIN DIONICIO CASILLAS.
>
>BUENO ESTAMOS EN CONTACTO, ATTE. LUPITTA

Comentario

TIscareno viene de un pueblo en Sevilla, Espana que se llama Tiscaro. Si ordenes el paso a las Indias de Don Luis Tiscareno de Molina, puedes ver mas sobre su informacion. En el futuro quiero ordenar el record.
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Comentario

Lupita:

Me parece que el apellido Almeida en la zona de Zacatecas (y probablemente esta rama en los Altos) proviene del apelativo compuesto original "Soto Almeida" asi que posiblemente buscando Soto encontraras algo.

Los Alvares Tostado se ubicaron en Zacatecas tambien asi que hay el vinculo con Zacatecas por ahi.

Comentario

Se ma parace que los Almeidas son de descendencia portugués. Tengo unos familiares en mi arbol. Hay una ciudad que se llama Almeida en Portugal. -Daniel Méndez del Camino
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Comentario

I agree that the surname Almeida is linked with the surname Soto.
Marge:)

On Jan 30, 2008, at 5:08 PM, arturoramos wrote:

>
> Lupita:
>
> Me parece que el apellido Almeida en la zona de Zacatecas (y
> probablemente esta rama en los Altos) proviene del apelativo compuesto
> original "Soto Almeida" asi que posiblemente buscando Soto encontraras
> algo.
>
> Los Alvares Tostado se ubicaron en Zacatecas tambien asi que hay el
> vinculo con Zacatecas por ahi.

Comentario

I am working on a family tree that has the surname Almeida (Almeyda).

Donaciano Franco y Flores left many descendants in San Miguel el Alto

Donaciano Franco y Flores is the son of Secundino Franco and Florencia (Tiburcia) Flores e Orosco

Florencia (Tiburcia) Flores is the daughter of Agustin Flores and Maria Bernarda Simona Orosco e Almeida.(married in Teocaltiche in 1780)

Bernarda Orosco e Almeida.is the daughter of Miguel Orosco and Quirina (Gabriela) Almeida.

Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Hola Lupita:

No pude encontrar los ascendientes que buscas en genealogías ni en el Archivo General de Indias.

Es evidente que la familia que buscas tiene varios apellidos portugueses como Zeijas, Almeida, Baez. Pudo existir un cambio de apellidos pues hacia 1640 hubo problemas políticos entre Portugal y España. Como los mercaderes portugueses habían alcanzado una notable bonanza en los virreinatos fueron perseguidos por la Inquisición.

No todos los portugueses eran judíos, algunos eran cristianos "nuevos" y otros cristianos viejos.

Los inquisidores Saenz de Mañosca persiguieron a los portugueses por judaizantes en Perú, Colombia (Nueva Granada) y en Nueva España. Uno de los más perseguidos fue el empresario Simón Baez Sevilla quien tenía su familia en San Juan de los Lagos.

Existen varios libros sobre ese tema como el de Stanley M. Hordes "A History of the Crypto-Jews of New Mexico".

Saludos

Marcelina

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